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Scortia
06-04-2003, 09:27 PM
I figured with my height and shape I would be perfect for crossplay... but after seeing photos of myself I have come to a sad realization: my face is very "un-masculine". My nose is rather short, my face is long and not chiselled looking, and there's a huge space from my mouth to my chin. Since I obviously can't do anything about my genetics, I was wondering if certain clothing, hair, and/or makeup techniques can help "manly" me up. ^^;; I find that short wigs really make me look non-male, but aside from that I'm at a loss. ^^;;

Karisu-sama
06-04-2003, 10:01 PM
Looking at your gallery pics, I see no reason you couldn't pull off the "bishie look", especially when I imagine your face with short hair. ^^ Perhaps part of the problem is that the short wigs you are trying are more "girl cut". Your face looks like it could do an androgynous look quite well to me, and bishounen are "pretty boys" - they're supposed to have a somewhat feminine quality to their looks.

Clothing: wide cut in the shoulders, narrow in the hips, and I recommend binding. In fact, a wig plus the right "guy look" clothing will really make a much more striking change than trying on just a wig alone.

Makeup: use liquid foundation on your lips to take out the "girly red lip" look.

Attitude: guys bluff more confidence than they feel, and are less "open" in attitude than women. Here's my 12-year-old daughter (a very pretty girl) attempting crossplay with Attitude (Hmm, reminds me of young Anakin Skywalker):
http://www.dragonsgate.net/cosplay/AKChestaPics/IMG036ChestaCrop.jpg

Scortia
06-04-2003, 10:09 PM
Oh yes, binding is my friend. *_* Your daughter looks soooo cute! ^.^ I think my long face has always been my issue... may just need to start posing more with my face aimed down. ^^;;

Karisu-sama
06-04-2003, 10:13 PM
No, no! Guys often have longer shaped faces than girls! I think it's an asset!

odango-mango
06-05-2003, 01:49 AM
i have a really boyish face :( wait till i get around to posting my haruka pics, lol.
What you can do to try and achieve a more manly look, try filling your eyebrows in with makeup pencil, make them look more fuller. Not many guys have tiny well plucked eyebrows, well not any guys I know sure don't.

Chosuke
06-05-2003, 08:32 AM
If you look in my gallery you can see my face as Haku and Kilik ^^;
I didn't do an overall too good of a job on what I call my 'man makeup' but generally I just go over my eyebrows with a little semi-dry mascara stick,cover my lips in foundation and try to set my jaw a little firm.

Since I have a round face,if I clench my teeth the right way it looks quite angular and that helps a bit ^^;..not the bisho look but enough for one of my classmates to think it was a little strangelooking boy in Scoti's Kilik outfit and not moi xD

odango-mango
06-10-2003, 01:04 AM
I usually mix concealer and a bit of lip gloss for my lips, I know haruka isn't a crossplay character, but she supposed to look boyish, hee hee ^_~ Chobrat you're an awesome Haku by the way!

Chosuke
06-10-2003, 07:56 AM
Thanks!

The lipgloss and concealer idea is great.. because I noticed when putting foundation on your lips it gets very dry and icky and an feel really nasty x.x;
Don't even get me started with the taste and how the concealer felt -_-;

Now i'm suffering a dilemna with Zidane.It is shown he DOES have colored lips... but finding a gloss in that color and making it NOT look girly will be a problem.

Famira Damaris
06-10-2003, 03:40 PM
*gasps* Chobrat, you're doing Zidane? *<=Zidane fan right here!* Wwaaai! XD

Hm...well, Zidane would probably look fine without colored lips. *blinks*

Chosuke
06-11-2003, 11:52 AM
Definately doing Zidane!
Mainly because he's one of my fav chars and everyones been saying I resemble him,plus I got the wig.

Of course Im not sure that resembling a fat headed monkey boy is a compliment or not.

RoseDuelist
06-30-2003, 09:30 PM
Most cute anime guys (Bishie's if you will) look like girls anyway, so as long as you bind, dress, and wear a wig it should be fine.

Gren
07-04-2003, 10:54 AM
Just another tip, shoulder pads! Most fabric stores will have the big hideous 80s shoulder pads make of moulded foam for about.... 3 bucks (because they're... not exactly in high demand)
The bigger and wider you can make your shoulders, the better.

odango-mango
07-05-2003, 02:12 AM
gren that's a great idea *steals it*

KIL78
07-07-2003, 09:33 PM
I'm kinda new so if this annoys anyone sorry
that out of the way, the biggest tell I have noticed with Drag Queens/Kings is body language though most DQs are better at
it than kings, most women just dont stand or walk like men and
when they do try it looks like an oafish parody of how a man walks. So if you want to project more "manly" go to a mall or something and people watch then try to copy their movements

odango-mango
07-08-2003, 02:18 AM
well imitating movements may help, I think it's all in the attitude and how you carry yourself when you're in crossplay, the right pose could really make a great impression!
I'm going to my first convention soon and crossplaying, and I want to fool lots of people. I'm pretty much a tom-boy already so I don't think i'll look too oafish struttin about, lol

katrinastrife
07-08-2003, 08:38 AM
Hmm, I definitely agree with the eyebrow thing. LOL, I was once messing with makeup, and I noticed I didn't have much of anything where my eyebros should be (o_O weirdity), so I tried to pencil them in, and ended up looking like my brother!

I promptly washed my face! ^^;;

Anyway, another thing I think is important in crossplay for girls is, if you can't bind, and even when you do, be sure the pattern doesn't draw attention to the bust area. For example: You're making a jacket for a guys style school uniform. It'd be best to buy a guy's pattern, and mess with the sizing a little bit, than to use a girl's pattern, which would be cut to allot for, if not emphasize,, the bust. The guy's pattern would, obviously flatten you out, ne?

:thumbsup: I hope this makes sense and helps and stuff ^_^!

Chosuke
07-08-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by katrinastrife

Anyway, another think I think is importnt in crossplay for girls is, if you can't bind, and even when you do, be sure the pattern doesn't draw attention to the bust area. For example: You're making a jacket for a guys style school uniform. It'd be best to buy a guy's pattern, and mess with the sizing a little bit, than to use a girl's pattern, which would be cut to allot for, if not emphasize,, the bust. The guy's pattern would, obviously flatten you out, ne?

:thumbsup: I hope this makes sense and helps and stuff ^_^!

Thats SO TRUE.
A girls Uniform jacket would have darts,and is made to EMPHASIZE curves/boobs etc.
A boys jacket is much more A-line and flat.. even if you went unbound it would still make you look way more masculine.

KIL78
07-08-2003, 07:16 PM
the important bit is what is the objective, Is it "look I'm dressed as a boy/girl, I am so wicked, wink" or are you try to create the ilusion you are a boy/girl( both by the way are valid). It's just the thing I notice first, like the difference between a guy in a skirt and a kilt attiude is part but, the way they move is very important to the general image and the way you tag them in you mind.

Oh and knock em dead odango

Gren
07-08-2003, 07:33 PM
I'm sort of on mid ground with this one. When I crossplay, I do want people to mistake me for a man, and feel a sense of accomplishment when they do, but I don't actively try to deceive people by doing things like altering my voice. I do alter my body language, but it's more of being in character than anything else. I also walk Łuber daintily when I wear my Red Mima.

odango-mango
07-08-2003, 08:49 PM
lol, it is indeed playing a character in cosplay/crossplay. I like working on my vocals too, sounding boyish is fun and adds to the deception.

i'm a wicked lil one ^_~

resilient
07-10-2003, 02:57 PM
How can you make your body appear *larger* though? I'm small (not just my muscles, if they exist) but my body is small. The shoulder pad thing was a great idea, but is there anything else you guys can think of to make me appear larger?

Scortia
07-10-2003, 03:31 PM
Other than a body suit or tall shoes.. I can't help you. I'm having the same dilemna myself... I 'm cosplaying Akio from Utena and pulling off a guy over 6 feet tall with wiiiiide shoulders and narrow hips is really difficult. ~_~

odango-mango
07-10-2003, 05:39 PM
You could sew the costume a little larger so it will appear more wider, but then that depends on the style the costume is.
I have to wear tall shoes with my costume cause i'm so darn short ^_^;

tinechan
07-10-2003, 07:46 PM
Here's an idea thing-gummy that my friend used when she crossplayed as Iori from KOF. She.. bandaged her bust, so that it appeared that she had no cleavage, AND wore the man shirts. ^-^ Man shirts are good, yes.

I don't know what else to add... I'm crossplaying two times next year and all I really have to do is add in more muscles to my arms and legs. ^-^; Which I can do... ::hand shoots out into the air with a fist for a hand:: I can do it! Lol. Uhm...

Shoes, maybe big boots? I'm pretty short too.. --; 5'1®Ų" .. Rofl. AND crossplaying as Kaoru Kaido from Prince of Tennis, "Snake" who's one of the tallest yet sexiest tennis players there... Anyways, good luck Scortia and everybody else, if you haven't done it yet. ^^;

~Tine

Gren
07-10-2003, 07:48 PM
My Millions Knives has wide shoulders not to mention the massive shoulder pads. I'll be wearing an undershirt with foam cut to a taper to give me a bit of an extra boost. Also so I can unzip the darn thing and take a breather once in a while.

Scortia
07-10-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by tinechan

I don't know what else to add... I'm crossplaying two times next year and all I really have to do is add in more muscles to my arms and legs. ^-^; Which I can do... ::hand shoots out into the air with a fist for a hand:: I can do it! Lol.
~Tine

I'm in support with you there... pumping iron at the gym hurts... much soreness ;_;.. hang in there. I scare my mother when I say things such as "I have such girly arms" or "Why do I have to have such curvy hips?!" ^^;;

Karisu-sama
07-10-2003, 08:19 PM
Struttin' like a guy - easy for me. Like Odango, I'm an eternal tomboy. :p Hard to deal with the voice even when I push it down - I'm a mezzo-soprano, curses... (At AX this year I kinda lost my voice so the rasp helped, heh...)

And the hips, though - arghhh. Guys have lower & wider waists than girls, & narrower hips - make sure your costume emphasizes that. For example, make your waistlines lower, & cut the pants so they actually hang from the hips with a looser (for show) waistband that rises somewhat above it (& hides girly waists!), rather than hanging from your actual waist. (I do this a lot anyway, 'cause I'se a mommy, and I has STRETCH MARKS & looser tummy skin - grrrr!) Narrower (but not too tight!) in the thighs, then looser from the knee down to avoid the feminine taper look. Dark colors = much better than light.

I've actually had great success with altering looser women's jacket patterns that have no darts. Just widen the shoulders (& add shoulder pads) and take in the waist - all without making it TOO form-fitting, of course. And I always test the muslins WHILE wearing binding.

Posing: The best angle to the camera when standing (the best angle at least from the waist down) is 3/4 - to de-emphasize hips and butt as much as possible. Of course, there will ALWAYS be photographers who walk around your pose and take it from less otimal angles... :( Other tricks: keep an arm down by your side to cover the butt area, or sit crosslegged (like my gallery crossplay pic - can't see the hips at all! :p )

odango-mango
07-10-2003, 09:43 PM
Karisu-sama you are my idol ^_^ I luv your cosplay/crossplay pics! all your tips have been super helpful. That's so cute your kids cosplay with you. Once my daughter gets older I'll try and bring her with me to Cons too.

Beware_UY7
07-16-2003, 11:20 AM
:p Hard to deal with the voice even when I push it down - I'm a mezzo-soprano, curses...

Haha, yeah, no matter how much I look like a guy, I have the high voice problem... (I'm a soprano) and since I'm studying proffesionally to become an opera singer, I'm told to speak in 'my comfortable singing range' which is around an f (under high c)... that's in no way masculine...

Another problem I have is that while my face isn't too feminine, my pigmentation is: Really rosy cheeks and lips... ah... it feels weird wearing makeup to crossplay, and then going without any when you cosplay a female...

But in the end, after its all said and done... it's great fun, eh... *runs off to mingle to fellow spaztic fangirls*

coeli
07-16-2003, 01:46 PM
A low voice is only one part of sounding more guy-ish. Women tend to move up and down in pitch to emphasize words and emotions, whereas men typically speak in a narrower pitch range. If you really want to explore this, there are plenty of books around on male/female communications differences (thinking of Deborah Tannen's _You Just Don't Understand_ in particular.)

I found a couple of pages of good advice on F-to-M crossplaying. Just as M-to-F crossplayers can find a lot of good stuff on drag queen sites (even if they don't want as exaggerated/theatrical a look as stereotypical drag queens), we women can look to drag kings. NOTE: Some of these sites get explicit on the subject of "packing"; you have been warned.

http://www.dantedifranco.com/HowTo.htm
http://www.madkats.com/tipsbyCarlos.html#face
http://dragkings.sistersublime.org/sept02/dress.htm

Hope all this is useful to somebody!

--coeli

Karisu-sama
07-16-2003, 07:38 PM
Yup, keep your voice in a narrower tonal range, say LESS (guys grunt a lot instead of actually saying "yes" or "no" for instance), keep your sentences short, and don't clarify unless asked.

Subject of "packing" - no big deal, I've seen a lot about it on the web, but my costumes have not required it (and likely won't in the future) to achieve a reasonable "guy" look, so I haven't had a desire to do so. Some women feel they need packing to really "feel like a guy"; however, I find my imagination more than sufficient.

Shonen_Star
07-17-2003, 03:14 AM
my makeup tips: use eyeliner to thincken and lower you eyebrows. (lower, as in, without and arch). If you put liner on you eyes use very little.
karisu had a good suggestion about the foundation on the lips, just make sure you use a little bit (too much makes you look more dead than masculine).

As far a hair goes, you wanna get a cut that make your face look more square.

Karisu-sama
07-17-2003, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by Shonen_Star
my makeup tips: use eyeliner to thincken and lower you eyebrows. (lower, as in, without and arch). If you put liner on you eyes use very little.
karisu had a good suggestion about the foundation on the lips, just make sure you use a little bit (too much makes you look more dead than masculine).

As far a hair goes, you wanna get a cut that make your face look more square.
LOL - I already HAVE a basically square face (not ideal for girl-cosplay! ); and fairly straight brows which are thicker than my husband's, and which which I never tweeze thinner.

Yeah, don't use too MUCH foundation on your lips - I actually have a great neutral-type lip pencil I use over / with with the foundation, which looks really good - you need to find one that works with YOUR skin tone.

Pencil eyeliner looks better than brush-on - you can smudge it soft & much less obvious, but it will still give an "anime-eyes" look. (Trust me, Dilandau wears eyeliner! :p )

Chosuke
07-17-2003, 10:25 AM
I've gotten pretty used to the binding and makeup now,but lately I've had the annoying habit of picking characters that are TALL AND SLENDER to cosplay instead of ones that might relate to my short and stocky self x_X;;

I *could* go without having a more correct height,but I just think it wouldn't look right.So somehow I have to gain the more bishonen-stick body and grow a foot too x.xll or amke platforms REALLY big.

Kendo_Bunny
08-19-2003, 03:10 PM
For getting down the guy walk, I've found wearing a kilt to be helpful. I used to go to a private school with horrendously ugly uniforms (jumpers in gray-navy-yellow plaid for the little girls, kilts in the same for the big girls) The fabric and cut lent itself to the illusion that you were wearing a potato sack with arm holes cut out, which defintely kills the desire to put some swing in your walk, like most females do. You just walked fairly straight, and having to swagger a little as the clunky schoolgirl shoes really impair your ability to walk normally. If you somehow managed it, you'd be electrocuted the second you touched a doorknob. Actually, the boys had more feminine looking walks than the girls, which was perhaps intentional.

The main point is that those kind of clothes are designed to make you feel sexless, which may not be good for self-esteem if you're forced to wear them everday, but it is very good for practicing a more masculine walk. Kilts come in handy, since almost every girl has worn pants, and usually not mens pants (which are also good for practicing in, considering how different the cut is) but kilts demand that you walk a certain way, and that way is not swinging your hips.
*wonders if that made any sense*

Sephiroth-chan
08-27-2003, 09:44 AM
Here is my secret technique to change my face to look a little less...chibi...-_-.

Eyeshadow.

God of makeup.

Get one of those nice variety natural tone compacts and a couple of makeup brushes and you're set.

Use a slightly darker tone than your skin to add shadows to your cheeks with light brushes with a big brush to releive some of the female softness of round cheeks, and also add a little on the underside of your jaw to make it a little more pronounced. Also...you could add a small touch to your neck with just the right dab for a hint of an adam's apple. And I say hint. All it takes is a little.

Smaller brushes are wonderful to maybe do a little for darkening a little under your eyebrows, and at the base of your nose.

Hairspray or makeup set spray will keep everything in place. WARNING. only spray with your eyes and mouth closed. I don't mean to insult anyone's intellegence...but obviously since I'm mentioning it, I've already had a complaint about someone not closing their eye. *rolls eyes*

What's cool, too, is you can sculpt your features to look a little more aristocric...narrower, or even broader with just the right touches of tone. If you want to make more pronouncements...like Saitou's high cheekbones, Alucard's fine chiseled look (Castlevania. Hellsing would be defined as gaunt, lol), or Gendou's scowl marks...use a slight tad darker tone right where it would be darkest at the turn of the feature next to the 'highlight' tone.

KnuxieChan
08-27-2003, 11:02 PM
One thing I do is depending on the character, I push out my bottom lip. It looks abit more evil and bishi. Narrowing your eyes makes you look abit more like the evil type. That's about all I can think of ^.^;

ACXchan
08-28-2003, 04:44 AM
Unfortunately I think I'm a lost cause when it comes to crossplaying a convincing man ^ ^;; Despite having been mistaken for a boy till I was about 13... I seem to have filled out and that's my main problem, a round face and wide hips. I don't know how to deal with these problems though I'm trying to overall slim down and see if that helps. Make up doesn't seem to work very well because I have a natural tan (being Thai). I think I have working eyebrows and eyes though ^ ^;

On acting like a guy though, my natural voice is deep and I have a wide choral range so I have no problem there. Sometimes the subtle things work really well like the way you look at someone or a casual lifting of your eyebrow. A real easy way to make a convincing guy is to just act like your character, assuming your character "acts male" because he *is* male, this wouldn't work for say... Nuriko.

Chosuke
08-28-2003, 08:48 AM
At CN I was mistaken for a boy more then once,which left me rather flattered..and maybe a bit disturbed? ^^;;

In my Goku costume, just the way it makes me carry myself makes me look alot more boyish I guess,and the wig is so often mistaken for my real hair.. Though I didn't think those were enough to get me mistaken for someones boyfriend ^^;;

Sephiroth-chan
08-28-2003, 09:30 AM
Make up doesn't seem to work very well because I have a natural tan (being Thai).


Try the Eyeshadow Technique! It come's in a HUGE variety of colors...and if shadow tones don't suit you, you can always do the opposite and pick highlights. Go to a cosmetic place in the mall and they will help you find the right colors to completment your skin. However, despite their insistance you don't HAVE to buy their goods. Grocery stores or Walmart are my haunts.

Note. When I say Shadow Tones and Highlight Tones DON'T do use pure white or black unless you are either doing someone with deathly pale skin for the white (Snow Princess, Vampire, etc) or a black or REAL dark skinned critter for the black (Drow dark elf, assorted demons and youma)

KnuxieChan
08-28-2003, 03:09 PM
>At CN I was mistaken for a boy more then once,which left me rather flattered..and maybe a bit disturbed? ^^;;

Heh, I'm the same way. If someone says "You're either a girl, or a really good looking guy." I usuallys take that as a complement ^.^; It's happened afew times. Once when I was Dark Schneider, and one when I posted a normal picture of myself. Having a deep voice helps alot too (like everyone said n.n')

If you just wanna be funny (or you crossplay a character that's a pervert) try to act like them. Get all stupid when you see a girl in a skimpy outfit. Or grin at girls. And depending on how far you go, you can do actions. Like when I crossplayed Dark, I grabbed my friend's butt. (She was Ashe) No one really saw it, but it woulda made a funny pic..

ACXchan
08-28-2003, 08:03 PM
Thanks for the tips Sephiroth-chan, I think I might have to try the highlight technique since adding darker colors might make me appear too tanned or something @D@; It almost sounds like photoshopping one's face XD

Goddess Zara
09-02-2003, 03:46 AM
one thing i noticed and tried to mimic as far as body language goes for all my crossplays is NOT crossing the legs. this was really hard for me, since i usually cross my legs all the time. a couple years ago for halloween, i dressed as female ranma - not a crossplay really, but i thought adding some male body language would be interesting, since ranma technically is a man. ^^() by the end of the day, i was dying to sit as i normally do! but i did get some compliments from my friends, so i think it was worth it! ^__^

i can't believe i didn't think of the shoulder pads before! that'll work really nice when i wear my ferio costume again. but question - what about EXTREMELY broad shouldered characters, like eagle vision or lantis from magic knight rayearth? my friend is doing an eagle crossplay, but in the manga, those guys have HUGE shoulders! it's like their torsos are just wedges. @_@ aside from, say, football player padding, what could she do to broaden her shoulders so much?

katrinastrife
09-02-2003, 09:36 AM
Maybe you could use shoulder pads, and then also pad the insides of the armor to really make it stick out...? Like, try to pile all of the wideness of the shoulders on the shoulder armor, and a cape, or something. @_@;; Those characters seem SO improportional, it's almost impossible...

I dunno... I'm crossplaying Kuja, who's a girly guy... But, I'm not sure on how to do it: it's like he's sitting on this fence between MALE and FEMALE and can't make up his mind:

He does still have the wide shoulders, but he has a tiny girl-waist, and girly hips. @_@; Not too sure what to do with that one...

mitylene
09-02-2003, 11:26 AM
Hey everybody :)
Thanks for all the incredible tips. I am definately going to put most of them to good use when I am Naruto for Halloween.

Katrina I totally understand what you mean about Kuja. Crossplaying Momiji is so much like doing a regular school girl sometimes ;) I've probably got tons of pictures of myself doing really girlie poses, but that is what Momiji does.

WhiteStorm
09-02-2003, 11:15 PM
...most women just dont stand or walk like men and
when they do try it looks like an oafish parody of how a man walks. So if you want to project more "manly" go to a mall or something and people watch then try to copy their movements

I was thinking the same thing the other day.. that and socks.
WhiteStorm

Karasu
09-03-2003, 06:16 PM
Like Karisu-sama, I am eternally a tomboy. I have a lot of the man features already. ^_^ When I dressed as Klaha (from Malice Mizer) I was called a "him" all day by. . .everyone. I kept a tally and more often than not, people thought I was a guy. I was so proud of that!! Too cool!!