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View Full Version : Console Warz: Heat is on for 2008 (repeat of SNES / Genesis)


FinalEVA
03-14-2008, 04:04 AM
Ok, I understand that the Wii is owning both the PS3 and 360. I got a Wii this last weekend, so I'm not saying I dislike it or anything. For alot of us, I think we can somewhat admit it's in a different class, much like PCs are to consoles, or handhelds to consoles. The horsepower, the third party developer situation, and much of its target market is quite a bit different from the HD consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360.

With the 360 and PS3, it looks like a De Ja Vu situation is happening from the 16 bit era - the SNES and Genesis era.

In 2007, many considered the PS3 to be DOA and was not going to survive at all. However, it appears to have made one of the best turnarounds in console history. During the Christmas holiday's, Europeans started really buying it up and then these first couple of months of 2008, Americans have shown alot more interest in the PS3. NPD figures for Feb. 2008 (USA only)

PlayStation 2 351.8K
PlayStation 3 280.8K
PlayStation Portable 243.1K
Xbox 360 254.6K
Nintendo DS 587.6K
Nintendo Wii 432K

http://kotaku.com/367710/nintendo-wins-february-console-war
For reference, PS3 doubled and then some over February 2007.

Xbox 360 looks like its still cruising along. However, it's is very weak outside North America and UK. In Europe, they had to cut the price by 80 Euro on every model to stay competitive with Sony. In Japan, don't even ask what the situation is over there. 360 owners definitely buy alot of games and attach rates are really good. I'm enjoying the 360 more this year than last year as most of 2007's line-up were games involving "Marines killing Aliens." I'm loving Lost Odyssey and can't wait for Tales of Vesperia, Ninja Gaiden 2, and Infinite Undiscovery. While the 360 is definitely varying its line-up to different genres, it may take a little while to break away from it's "FPS/Sports/Racers image." Maybe the crazy Halo 3 marketing re-enforced its stereotype too much last year.

As said before, the PS3 has now entered the real race. 2007 was an absolutely disastrous year and it looked as if it was going the way the Sega Saturn. Many were turned off by the price, games kept being delayed, developers had trouble, and alot of people disliked the Blu-ray move. I bought a PS3 last February and always thought they would come out of their rut eventually, which now looks to be happening. PS3 won't be the PS2 with absolute dominance, but it will still have some excellent games like MGS4, KZ2, White Knight Chronicles, Little Big Planet, Final Fantasy XIII, and GT5.

To sum it up, we've got a good head to head race coming up.

BTW, close if too much drama.

TybaltFlux
03-14-2008, 12:05 PM
Ok, I understand that the Wii is owning both the PS3 and 360. I got a Wii this last weekend, so I'm not saying I dislike it or anything. For alot of us, I think we can somewhat admit it's in a different class, much like PCs are to consoles, or handhelds to consoles. The horsepower, the third party developer situation, and much of its target market is quite a bit different from the HD consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360.


Agreed on the Wii being its own category...to an extent. It's still within the video game system establishment and will still be dealt as such with competitors. Having said that, I don't think there's too much of history repeating themselves. 2008 might be important for all the systems, but it's way too hard to tell.

Yes, Sony bested Microsoft in the next-gen video format wars, and yes, with the exception of GoW2 and Bioshock 2 (which lacks a street date and will most likely not come out this year), there's a lack of non-niche titles for the 360 this year. At the same time, Sony has MGS4, LittleBigPlanet, and its own selection of niche titles to make it the more promising of the consoles...for 2008.

Let's not forget, however, that PS3 is supposed to have a shelf-life of over five years or so, the 360 at least three years, and Nintendo is still out there somewhere. That means all systems have plenty of time to counter each other. The Blu-ray was a huge victory for the PS3, and coupled with MGS4's announcement, it's no wonder the PS3 shot up in sales.

Now, the reason I said history won't be repeating itself is because we have so many non-exclusives in our era- GTA, COD, and all the other big sellers. The only company that truly has exclusives is Nintendo, and their exclusives are all first party anyways. Cases can be made for Konami and Square shifting their numbes to Sony, but the same can be said about Mistwalker and such- and let's not kid ourselves, MGS4 is coming to the 360, -eventually-.

I also didn't want to throw Nintendo out of the equation because I think that, if they chose to, they could give their "support" for one of the companies, likely Microsoft. Imagine, if you will, Master Chief having been inserted into brawl, or a cross-promotion game between both companies. Yeah, it'd be easier with Sony's Six-Axis, but the motion technology, not to mention the history between Sony and Nintendo, might make Nintendo wary of doing anything with them. Microsoft, on the other hand, said, perhaps a bit tongue in cheek, that Nintendo was their true competition. If they really meant that to sorta indirectly diss Sony, and if the PS3 gains enough momemtum to be a threat to both Nintendo and Microsoft, I can imagine both companies doing something to strengthen themselves by uniting and covering both the American and overseas markets.

Granted, I don't think Nintendo sees itself in any possible trouble. They're video game giants, and with the Wii and DS, they do have the mentality of the NES/SNES days, where they felt and looked unstoppable. At the same time, Microsoft and Sony have such deep pockets and so many other properties that it's really a pride-war for them.

In other words, we're lacking the Genesis of this new gaming frontier. Oh wait, the Dreamcast is still alive :/.

FinalEVA
03-16-2008, 05:00 AM
There was the whole "Wii60" concept that Peter Moore invented before the Wii was released. However, I think some of that was under the assumption that the Wii wouldn't do much better than the Gamecube. Nintendo never really commented on that because they are more of a free spirit. This generation, they have shown they can do well without being in a console war. Third party support wasn't really in their agenda. I'm not sure they would want to associate too closely with MS either with how badly MS is doing in some parts of the world. The N64 comprised of Nintendo Hardcore fans + console FPS fans (Goldeneye). When the Xbox came out, the Gamecube was left with only the hardcore Nintendo fans with the FPS fans migrating to the Xbox for Halo. Now the Wii has the hardcore Nintendo fans + all the casuals, which outnumber them 5:1.

Last year, it was looking as if Sony was going to be corked off from the market. However, this year, I wonder if the MS is going to have to do more explaining to their shareholders. The Xbox was intended to completely take out the competition and integrate Windows into everyone's living room environment. There is quite a ways to go for MS to do that, especially since 2007 was when they were supposed to completely take Sony out when they only tied with them.

MS made good inroads with the multi-player and online system, but since then it seems to be only a Coyote and Roadrunner game that they have been playing with Sony. Microsoft being the Coyote focused solely on taking Sony out, and Sony managing to escape.

Leishu
03-16-2008, 06:34 PM
To be honest, this whole "Wii isn't in the competition" thing looks consistently to me like the other two giants trying to give excuses for Nintendo's "unlikely" success. *shrug* The fact is that as long as more people, month by month, are purchasing Wii systems instead of one of the other two, then the Wii is in the competition because it is stealing sales from the other two. It's the market that decides this, in other words, and nothing else, and the market is saying that they are in the same category.

4ng31
03-16-2008, 08:02 PM
To be honest, this whole "Wii isn't in the competition" thing looks consistently to me like the other two giants trying to give excuses for Nintendo's "unlikely" success. *shrug*

Nintendo themselves said they were not competing with Sony or Microsoft...of course, that was before they took over market-share, and now they're very quick to brag about beating them in sales...pretty low IMO, but they *are* a Japanese company, so it's to be expected I suppose.

Even though I own a Wii, I still think the console is junk...a hyped up Gamecube with poor motion tracking (well, maybe not as bad as Sixaxis...but still). I know this is gonna ruffle feathers, but games like Cooking Mama...that game is a joke to anyone who is a "serious" (take that however you want) gamer. I mean, low budget, all mini-games, and quite possibly the worst dialog I have ever heard in my life (all your base are belong to us anyone?)...

Meh, whatever though...I own all 3 consoles...and honestly, the PS3 gets the most playtime out of them all. BluRay is incredible (anyone who says different has no idea what they are missing), the game selection is NOT that bad, and free online...that I dare say can rival that of Live.

Quantum9
03-16-2008, 09:06 PM
You knew I was going to have something to say about this. We have about 10 topics on this same subject, a subject that I, quite frankly, think is junk.

I'm vehemently against fanboyism, and the console wars as a whole, to be honest. Now, you may say "But Quantum9! Aren't you a dyed in the wool Nintendo fanboy?" Well, therein lies the problem - the definition of "fan" and "fanboy". To me, a fan is anyone who merely likes something and prefers it to something else, while still admitting the faults of what he likes. A "fanboy" is one who not only likes something, he likes it so strongly that he is willing to go onto message boards and vent his opinions, both positive and negative, on something, not admit to any faults, and if someone questions his opinions, guess what, you're wrong, and I'm going to try and convert you to my way of thinking.

The PS3, Wii, and 360 *gasp* all have big positives and negatives surrounding them. What a concept. And to artificially make this tl;dr even worse, I'll now list them.

PS3:
Positives:
Only holder of the undisputed next-gen video format (Blu-Ray)
Free online play
Most powerful console on paper
Exclusive home of key upcoming titles (MGS4, FFXIII, GT5)

Negatives:
Worst value for a console
Downgrading backwards compatibility
Weak current lineup of games

Xbox 360:
Positives:
Best current lineup of games
Best online service

Negatives:
Upcoming lineup is a bit lackluster
Online service isn't free
Ho-hum backwards compatibility
Shoddy hardware

Wii:
Positives:
Nintendo's games
Nearly-perfect backwards compatibility
Best downloadable game service
Extremely durable console

Negatives:
Weakest graphics
Worst online play service
Very limited on-board memory
Lacking third-party support


I could go into more detail, but I'll stop there. Now, a few of my factors are based upon my own personal opinions, but I'd like to think most of them are shared by a majority of gamers. The fact is, all three consoles have reasons to buy and reasons not to buy. Now, the arguement has been brought up that Nintendo shouldn't be counted in the console wars because they aren't in direct competition. You're right, I think that even Nintendo themselves stated that, and they've gone back on it with the Wii's success despite the console's "inferiority". I agree with TybaltFlux and Leishu in that the Wii, like it or not, is a video game console and is competing, and yes, I think even Nintendo themselves thought the Wii would be like the GameCube - a niche of a niche, in third place, but still making them profit, no matter how much other fanboys would wish they'd drop out of hardware. I'm sure Nintendo would have been perfectly happy with that, but the apparent niche they discovered turned out to be the motherlode, and Sony/MS fanboys aren't happy. Hence why suddenly the Wii means nothing to the REAL console race, as FinalEvangelion said, because apparently it's not a video game console. This is why I hate the "love or hate" mentality everyone seems to have around Nintendo - they're either the greatest company in the history of the planet, or they're an also-ran has-been that's ruining the industry. You don't "think Nintendo's okay". You don't "like Nintendo games on occasion". You either love 'em or ya hate 'em. Period.

Now, as I said previously, I'm a Nintendo fan. I will admit their faults, without a doubt, but I think overall they are the best company in gaming. My opinion. That said, I'm not going to say that the PS3 and 360 are doomed, although I did say on occasion the PS3 was last year after they struggled to pass the GBA SP in monthly sales. But Blu-Ray is now the format of choice, the games have gotten better, and it looks like there will, in fact, be a PS4. Meanwhile, the 360 seems to be chugging along as well. It looks like...All three consoles will be successes!!! OMG!!!

See, this is why I hate fanboys. Games are a business. This is not Major League Baseball. There are no winners, there are no losers. Sony, MS, and Nintendo are not in business to put the other guys out of it (although my impression from the PSP was Sony trying to put Nintendo into bankruptcy, but that was from a less business-savvy time for me, and I digress). They are not in it for the fans. They are in it to MAKE MONEY, and take whatever means necessary to do so. To do that, they all put out GREAT GAMES. And all three consoles have amazing content you should play. If you don't want to, nobody is forcing you to. But I don't see why that gives you the right to condemn other people's choices.

You know what? I'm not going to take this topic seriously. Looking at the first post, FinalEvanglelion looks to be throwing the PS3's 2008 in our faces, saying the PS3 will beat the 360 in sales this year, and then saying that means it'll be #1 because the Wii doesn't count. This is exactly what I'm talking about, and I think it's rather silly, quite frankly.

Leishu
03-16-2008, 09:22 PM
Quantum9:

I will hug you if you just post that into every video game console battle thread. It seems to need to be said every single freaking time, and that's sad, but you really do say it best.

Buy your console. Enjoy your console. Stop trying to act as if there's anything at stake here other than entertainment and stop trying to act as if those who made a different decision than you did somehow deserve to be less entertained. Your decision is not better, no matter what it is, for anybody but you. Your judgment is not magically better or more valid because your console has the most games, or sold the most units, or is the most powerful. PERIOD. There is absolutely no objective standard for what console is best, or most "hardcore" or "serious," or superior. Acting as if you are somehow individually party to some special standard doesn't really do anything but make you into another jerk on the internet who has to tell everybody just because he knows better.

TybaltFlux
03-16-2008, 09:56 PM
See, this is why I hate fanboys. Games are a business. This is not Major League Baseball. There are no winners, there are no losers. Sony, MS, and Nintendo are not in business to put the other guys out of it (although my impression from the PSP was Sony trying to put Nintendo into bankruptcy, but that was from a less business-savvy time for me, and I digress). They are not in it for the fans. They are in it to MAKE MONEY, and take whatever means necessary to do so. To do that, they all put out GREAT GAMES. And all three consoles have amazing content you should play. If you don't want to, nobody is forcing you to. But I don't see why that gives you the right to condemn other people's choices.


If there was ever a QFT on a video game related topic, this was it. Just to encroach on Quantum's wisdom a bit more, it's like Burger King, Wendy's, and McDonald's. Burger King might hassle the other two, McDonald's might be the grandfather chain, and Wendy's might be the tasty new kid on the block, but at the end of the day, it's all about personal likes and dislikes, and as long as both are making money, deep down, they could care less. I.E., it's not a Walmart-situation, or even better yet, WWF/WCW/ECW takeover situation, but I don't wanna start a really dumb (though oddly relevant) comparison between 90's professional wrestling and video games.

In short, Quantum's right about none of us being completely right :D.

Simmaria
03-17-2008, 02:47 AM
im sorry, how is this even a console war close to the great one of the 16 bit era?

I also dont see how PS3 is any more lucrative for third parties then a wii, have you seen the NPD numbers? it can sell all the consoles it wants, but just like the PSP if nobodies buying the games, who cares.

both RE titles, and guitar hero 3 sold over a million copies each on wii, and thats a lot more guitar heroes then PS3. id also almost guarantee that if third parties didnt treat the wii like the shovelware and actually i dunno, PROMOTED their games they would have even better sales.

The only thing to be learned from the PS3 is that hopefully there online service will one day match Lives quality and force microsofts hand into making it free as well. Nintendo is fucking clueless on online gameplay so thats just a lost cause no matter what.

so to make sense of all that, how exactly do you define a console war? if its sales then PS3 still sucks, if its features, then PS3 has a good lead assuming you have a 60GB. if its quality of games then thats purely subjective. just remember even the N64 had Super Mario 64, goldeneye, and OoT. those three games defined current gameplay on a system always looked down upon. so really whats the measuring stick for winning a console war?

FinalEVA
03-17-2008, 03:09 AM
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You made some very valid. Very well said and honest.

There were quite a few PS3 hate threads last year. Every time I went to look for info about MGS4 or FF13, 90% of discussions on the internet became "going to the 360" discussions. I did become more of a Sony fan / borderline fanboy over the last year because of this.

You are right and I am wrong (and I will lower my pride from the original post and admit it) the Wii is in competition. It very well shows in Japan as well. It's affecting the sales of other consoles / games, as well as the rest of the entertainment industry. Third parties are having a big problem competing with the Nintendo name, besides maybe SE.

I'll be honest here on why some people hate the Wii. Many people, like 4ng31, are giving reasons like some of the crappy games and whatever the case may be. Many of the reasons people hate the Wii so much are the same reasons many PC gamers don't like PS3 or 360. Looking at Monster Hunter 3 and Fatal Frame IV, we know there is a trend developing. The next likely defection is possibly Kingdom Hearts III. On top of visuals that will only be marginally better than PS2 / Gamecube, the Wii-mote scheme will probably be forced.

Eh. Well. Majority rules. Let thread run course. I'll stop with "Consoles Serious Bizness" stuff.

In my Sony Fan self, I was excited to see PS3 not completely go under and made this thread. However, I've requested the lock.