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vampricyoda
08-15-2010, 06:46 PM
I get the feeling I'm going to be called a troll for making this thread, but it's something that's been bothering me for quite a while.

Every anime con I've gone too recently I keep seeing large groups of Hetalia cosplayers disrespecting the flags they carry with them. Letting them touch the ground, having mock sword fights with the poles that the flags are on, things of that nature. Is anyone else bothered by this? I know that Katsucon this year coinsided with a Miltary event and more then one officer was upset at the people messing with the flag.

I dunno, this is more of a rant but is anyone else upset with this? I feel like more people should be at the very least. Hopefully this thread will show the fans of the show that sort of behavior with the flag of our country and others is disrespectful at the same level as leaving a swastica armband on a costume. . .(though that one's been talked about to death so I don't want to rehash that discussion)

Saerrix
08-15-2010, 07:02 PM
Not every country has the same standards that America has over flag customs. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter with German flags, for example. I'm not trying to defend the cosplayers that do that though. Most Hetalia cosplayers are complete idiots, I've learned, and are hard to reason with, so be prepared for flamers. I've seen them do quite a few really disrespectful things, myself. I kinda keep mine to myself, and don't get involved. And I keep my flags tucked away at home, so they don't get hurt.

Axelai
08-15-2010, 07:14 PM
Well, i don't see a problem with the cosplayers carrying the flags around the con... but if they drop them on the floor, etc, then thats really disrespectful. In my personal experience, all the Hetalia cosplayers i saw were simply carrying the flags. And IMHO, thats perfectly fine. But if they were really doing the things you said... i'd probably be upset too.

tsuoi_kaze
08-15-2010, 07:18 PM
I never really saw the point of carrying around a full sized flag, anyways. It would just get in the way of the costume :P Especially so since most flag stores carry the mini flags on pencil-sized sticks or patches you can sew onto the costume.

krys-chan
08-15-2010, 07:48 PM
I don't know what you would consider this but recently I saw a group of Hetalia cosplayers and one had a French flag. One that was large and on a pole.

They had written on the white area(The flag is blue/white/red (http://unimaps.com/flags-europe/france-flag.gif)). Although I could not make out what was written on it, what would you consider that? Writing on a legitimate flag.

Axelai
08-15-2010, 07:53 PM
I don't know what you would consider this but recently I saw a group of Hetalia cosplayers and one had a French flag. One that was large and on a pole.

They had written on the white area(The flag is blue/white/red (http://unimaps.com/flags-europe/france-flag.gif)). Although I could not make out what was written on it, what would you consider that? Writing on a legitimate flag.

...that depends on whats written. Though i can't think of anything that'd be appropriate on a french flag. I don't see a problem with the writing itself, as long as its not anything offensive, bad, or just poorly written.

Though like i said, i honestly can't think of anything that WOULDN'T be disrespectful on it.

Yukikittie
08-15-2010, 08:14 PM
I just wouldn't bring a flag, unless if it was like one of the those mini flags you get at 4th of July or something.
But a huge-ass flag? Sounds like a pain to carry around to me.

CapsuleCorp
08-15-2010, 08:18 PM
I fully admit that even though I am older, I don't know that much about flag customs even of the US. I know how to properly dispose of one, and that it's against custom to leave it out at night or in the rain, but I didn't know until a friend went off on an America cosplayer for dragging the flag on the floor that it was disrespectful. Face it, Hetalia fandom is rather young, and I can almost guarantee you that generation has never been educated in their own country's flag customs, let alone others'.

This is not to excuse behavior, this is just to say, this is why you see these things. Because nobody these days knows how to treat a flag. I personally am not a big believer in traditions, customs, and such things involving flags, but I don't foist my personal beliefs on anyone - flag etiquette is important to remember precisely because there ARE people for whom disrespect to the flag is very upsetting. Veterans, serving members of the military and civilian police, etc. Thus, if there's some kind of way to get the word out and point Hetalia cosplayers toward information on flag etiquette, I say, go for it.

tifaia
08-15-2010, 09:04 PM
U.S. flag protocols are extensive. As someone with a family member who has served in the military, they take those rules to heart.

Here are a couple of websites to help out with general rules:

http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette-display.shtml
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

The big thing for me is to see a flag on the floor. I realize that it's just an item, but it symbolizes so much to so many. Just keep it off the floor, and I'm ok with someone carrying it around. At least go for the cheap, plastic version. Then it's not as big of an issue if it's dirtied up.

itsuki<3pudding
08-15-2010, 09:16 PM
I fully admit that even though I am older, I don't know that much about flag customs even of the US. I know how to properly dispose of one, and that it's against custom to leave it out at night or in the rain, but I didn't know until a friend went off on an America cosplayer for dragging the flag on the floor that it was disrespectful. Face it, Hetalia fandom is rather young, and I can almost guarantee you that generation has never been educated in their own country's flag customs, let alone others'.

This is not to excuse behavior, this is just to say, this is why you see these things. Because nobody these days knows how to treat a flag. I personally am not a big believer in traditions, customs, and such things involving flags, but I don't foist my personal beliefs on anyone - flag etiquette is important to remember precisely because there ARE people for whom disrespect to the flag is very upsetting. Veterans, serving members of the military and civilian police, etc. Thus, if there's some kind of way to get the word out and point Hetalia cosplayers toward information on flag etiquette, I say, go for it.

I am an American, and I can remember being taught to respect the flag at a very young age (think kindergarden). Being in my early twenties I'm probably considered old by cosplay standards, but I can't imagine even a young teenager not being aware that flag etiquette exists. Honestly, I only remember a few bits because I really don't handle flags much, but I know that if I was going to be in the position where I would be using a flag I would definitely refresh my memory. I can respect that flag etiquette is a sensitive subject for some, and I would never want to accidently offend someone with my ignorance. It's just common sense to me.

Bonana King
08-15-2010, 09:19 PM
Honestly I don't care what people do with their flags. I just don't. To me a flag is just a piece of fabric. Sure, it symbolizes the country and what they stand for....but just cause the flag is tarnished doesn't ruin the meaning that it stands for.

Shana05
08-15-2010, 09:48 PM
I never really saw the point of carrying around a full sized flag, anyways. It would just get in the way of the costume :P Especially so since most flag stores carry the mini flags on pencil-sized sticks or patches you can sew onto the costume.

That's why I plan to get one of the small flags for my Finland cosplay. Lugging that around seems too much of a hassle.

On topic, I don't really get offended by it but they should read up on flag equitte. That's why a link to a site all about it was posted on the Hetalia cosplay board.

Itachi/Lfanatic
08-15-2010, 10:20 PM
I'm with others when I say that ya-carrying a huge flag is a regal pain. That's why I bought one of those smaller flags *America Cosplayer here <-- *As for disrespectful use, I might have seen one instance, but none like described above. Being 17, I might be considered a 'younger generation' cosplayer, but I DO know the do's and do not's of how to treat my country's flag. But yes, this is somewhat an issue with this particular fandom. This needs to be brought to the cosplayer's attention, that is, unless they like getting glared at by military officers/patriotic people/etc.

Lolligag-love
08-15-2010, 10:48 PM
This comes up a lot for me when people see my hetalia cosplay friends trudgen there flags around or wearing them as a cape
I wouldn't bring a real flag with me to a con because all day I would stress about it falling or getting dirty
I can't control what others do but I don't like to see flags rolled up and put on the ground
I don't know if that country has different rules for the flag but I don't want to have to bring it up
I'm in girlscouts and we do flag ceremonies at camp during sunrise and sunset so I know a little about the american flag
I am not offended when someone wears an american flag like a cape
but I know when we are at balboa park and people are running around with a flag cape on
normal people might be offended

I know Hetalia cosplayers mean no harm, but sometimes they should think ahead before they run around draging a large flag with them
Maybe take the time to learn the "flag rules"
I may bring a S. Korean flag to a gathering one day, but learn S. Korea's rules first

note that this is how I feel and not saying my word is law
(I used I a lot I know)
I'm 100% younger gen' being 13

Sisshi
08-15-2010, 10:59 PM
I know at least the american flag works you're nto supposed to let it touch the ground, You raise it at sunrise and lower it at sunset, when it's folded up there should be a total of 13 stars showing all the way around, the proper way to dispose of the flag. I learned alot in girl scouts about proper care for the american flag.

However, with Hetalia cosplayers, the giant one just seems a bit rediculous (I can never spell that word T.T) You have to be careful with a flag pole too because if it's too high it could be against con rules, the smaller flags just avoid most problems. It really isn't fun getting clobbered by a prop that's really long (thankfully, not a personal experience)

Myself and a group of my friends are Hetalia cosplayers, but we wouldn't disrespect the flag purposely. None of us actually plan to carry any around as we'll be too busy keeping ourselves cool (well not me, I wear the lighter costume) because my friends are idiots who don't think to have a lightweight cosplay for summer cons -.- One of our cosplayers is training to be a police officer and her family is comprised of police and military....I think she'd not be happy about the flag thing. Swordfighting with the flag poles...just no. That's definately disrespectful and is against the rules at many cons too.

I'm kinda in between 'older gen' and 'younger gen' cosplayers at 21, and my group ranges from 16-23, but us older ones keep the younger ones in check. My group and I are the kind of nerds that look up the history of the actual country so we can be more knowledgable on how they act and react to different countries XD

Benihime78
08-15-2010, 11:23 PM
I'm also going to risk getting flamed and agree that quite a few Hetalia cosplayers are disrespectful when it comes to their flags. While other countries might not have the same standards and respect for their flags, I think that one must respect the flags of all countries simply to be respectful and to not appear to be ignorant. As some people have said, they might just not know any better and don't mean any harm, so maybe educating them on proper care and respect for the flag would be a good thing(provided they choose to listen).
And I guess I qualify as "old" too- I remember reading the rules for the American flag in a textbook when I was a kid.

HeartHetalia
08-16-2010, 12:18 AM
Hetalia cosplayer here. Probably one of the most offensive cause I use the Soviet Union one and not the Russian one (I crave accuracy, sorry.) I bought a big 3x5 foot flag for my cosplay but I use respect with my flag and keep it folded unless I'm in a spacious area where I can wave it a little or have it unfolded. At the con I went to I kept it to about a quarter of its size, just enough to show the hammer and sickle in the top corner. I kept it close to me and definitely off the floor and out of people's ways.
I can't stand when people wave their flags in your face. Hasn't happened to me yet but I'm sure it's gone on somewhere.
And this is kinda unrelated but my reason for not unfolding it completely was because people want to see the costume, not the flag. So I kept it small and at my side or slightly in front of me. But it worked. I made sure to be as respectful as possible (with a communist flag) for the flag of a country I don't know a whole lot about. Just in case, you know. I didn't want to offend anyone more than I probably already have.

ladyxzeus
08-16-2010, 12:58 AM
It's thanks to threads like this that I'm glad my country is not a Hetalia character.

Blood_Sword
08-16-2010, 03:31 AM
Now I don't know much about any "official flag rules"...
But yeah, you come a long way with common sense and respect.

Ok, now I'm finnish and if I were to carry around my own lands flag I would never think about standing on it, getting it dirty or anything like that... it would just feel bad and wrong because a flag stands for many things. I don't want to hurt/offend those people who once fought for that flag, for our country...

Brsis
08-16-2010, 04:41 AM
I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said RE: General respect and the average maturity of Hetalia cosplayers being quite low (I'm one too, guys, so I'm sure every other Hetalia cosplayer on this thread is as slightly bewildered and dismayed by it as I am)

However, America is very... particular about these things, and other countries are not. It's not such a big deal if a flag touches the ground in Britain (I can back this up with examples but basically, it stems from the fact that there are more important things than the flag, like the Royal Standard - which is the special flag that trumps all five other flags and is only for the monarch - and the Queen, who trumps even the Royal Standard). It's considered serious bad taste to start waving the flag around in Germany unless you're an embassy or at a football game. In some Scandinavian countries (So I've been told) they put them all over their gardens when it's someone's birthday.

I have very particular feelings about flags, and thus don't really care what people do to them, but it DOES bother me how many people don't take into consideration what is an acceptable level of good behaviour.

SirenaBlack
08-16-2010, 05:10 AM
I've only seen Hetalia cosplayers being protective and respectful of their flags...So there's that :)

I dunno...I really don't like treating symbols as holy items. That said, I understand that for some the symbols are extremely important and I would not want to cause anyone pain or discomfort. It doesn't even have to go as far as respect, it could just be good manners to keep flags off the ground.

I'm getting into "Hetalia" so it saddens me to see that the fandom might not have such a good reputation...I've only been impressed by seeing younger cosplayers showing any interest in history XD and by some of the extremely nice cosplays depicting different countries.

a600hz
08-16-2010, 05:26 AM
I'm actually planning to cosplay as a hetalia styled Mexico, and I have seen many people (hetalia cosplayers) at conventions playing with our nation and other nation's flag and to think about it, it is something very bad when a flag is disrespected because a flag represents a lot, there probably isn't much to say now because it most likely will have already been said but for hetalia cosplayers there should be rules. I can understand they are just living the moment and enjoying there time; but, they should have a set of rules to go by and keep in mind.

I'm planning on carrying around the flag of mexico and I understand that Mexico is very strict about how the flag is dealt with and even though I don't know all the rules about there nation's flag I know the basics enough to not seem like a total jacka$$. During anime expo this year there were two girls who went for a day or two who dressed like illegal immigrants, they wore panchos, huge sombreros, wore the mexican flag on there back and had a large piece of green construction paper representing a green card and signs begging for papers. when I first saw this I thought it was pretty funny you know, but as they ran through the place I began to feel bothered by what they were doing

I'm Mexican American, not a Mexican born in america, but I actually have family from around the twenties or thirties who were americans, Any ways. as we walked around we saw them parading around with "America" being scared of immigration and begging people for money or sucking up to people for just about anything I felt bad because they were representing a part of me in a bad way, of course I know its common but its just a bad feeling I'm pretty patriotic towards both The United States and Mexico. When I decided to cosplay as my own Hetalia styled cosplay of mexico I spent time thinking about how I would act and I did my own research about Mexican bandits, cowboys etc. and I know.

Of course I don't want to seem like a total douche. I know hetalia cosplayers will probably try and play fight with me or try and arrest me or what ever but I want to try and stand clear from all that and just pose at the camera.

Ends Beginning
08-16-2010, 07:59 AM
I carry I 3'x5'flag mostly for photoshoots other then that they stay flowded up nice in my hotel room.
I know most flags shouldn't be allowed to drag on the ground or just be left on the ground. I mean I've seen a lot of "hetalia" cosplayers buy those small ones and then just leave them on the floor. I have personally seen then most people who bring the larger ones actually take care of them.
I collect National flags so I usually read up on the various regulations for the different nations.


(note: I put "hetalia" because I know a good part of the people we are talking about are the ones that will lose interest when something new comes along. I'm one of the Hetalia cosplayers that will be around after the popularity of the series dies down a bit.)

Lolligag-love
08-16-2010, 09:54 AM
just saying
a lot of people on here keep stating that it is/ is mostly the younger gen' who aren't aware that they are disrespecting a flag, but age doesn't have much to do with it its just a maturity level (granted that is/ can be the younger gen'). Maybe it is different where you are, but where I am it seems like it is the older ones who do it (not pointing fingers at anyone)

Crown of Laurel
08-16-2010, 10:13 AM
I've lived in America for my whole life (only sixteen years, but still), and I've never learned what was "disrespectful" or "rude" when it came to flags. (At least from an American standpoint.) However, I still knew common sense, about not letting it touch the ground, sitting on it, or doing things that might come off as disrespectful. Now, after my (first) con, I read about just what constitutes as things to not do with a country's flag, and made sure not to do those things since then (most of which I didn't do in the first place).

I'm don't know if it's where I live, but I'm not sure how many Americans actually know what is considered disrespectful when it comes to a country's flag.

Berzerker_prime
08-16-2010, 11:25 AM
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but...

I think the disrespect of various flags is symptomatic of a larger problem with the Hetalia fandom and that is that people just don't think. Personally, I find the show to be offensive and whenever I tell people my reasons the response I get is "geeze, lighten up" rather than any kind of defense against my reasoning. I won't go into them here because it's a whole other rant and doesn't have much to do with the OP.

It doesn't matter if a cosplayer is American, Japanese, English, German, whatever. Whether it's a flag or a portrayal of a country, this stuff means things to people. WWII still means "never forget" to a lot of people and it always will. My opinions on the show itself aside, there is far too much of the fandom that treats that very cavalierly.

And, frankly, it's a turnoff.

Brsis
08-16-2010, 02:06 PM
just saying
a lot of people on here keep stating that it is/ is mostly the younger gen' who aren't aware that they are disrespecting a flag, but age doesn't have much to do with it its just a maturity level (granted that is/ can be the younger gen'). Maybe it is different where you are, but where I am it seems like it is the older ones who do it (not pointing fingers at anyone)

Although this is venturing a bit off topic, I think Lolligag brings up a really good point. I've been consistently surprised by the ages of Hetalia fans - firstly by how young some of the people I've talked to online have turned out to be (I'm pretty sure when I was fourteen, I wasn't starting sentences with "Just off the top of my head, I think that should refer to the Second Peace of Thorn rather than the Prussian Homage...") - and secondly by how OLD some of the fans I have been unfortunate enough to be cornered by in public have been (I could have sworn blind that several of them were still teenagers when they were in fact older than I am). It's a mistake to equate age with maturity, as it's definitely the 'immature cosplayers' rather than the 'young cosplayers' - although of course some people ARE both - who cause the problem.

This point also gets raised periodically in Hetalia specific communities and inevitably gets argued to a standstill, as everyone present agrees that it's not right and then realises that the people attracting negative attention are probably the same ones skipping over or ignoring the discussion. Every fandom's got that bunch of guys that nobody seems to be associated with and everyone wishes would just go away and stop ruining it for the rest of us. Hetalia's bunch of guys is just... really big and obvious >.>

Vexation
08-16-2010, 03:01 PM
There's a difference between someone bumping into you and making you DROP a flag and just tossing it down on the ground, in my opinion.

Either way, they're cumbersome, unnecessary... and often mistreated. maybe have one for an outdoor photoshoot, admittedly, a photo of (country) here with a strong gust of wind blowing their costume and their flag behind them could be good. But... swordfighting with the poles and just... eh. I'm not gonna go apeshit on anyone, but still. It's ridiculous.

Imho, I think more people are offended by the scantily clad girls (and boys) at cons than are going to flip a gasket about a flag brushing against the ground.

Saerrix
08-16-2010, 07:03 PM
Although this is venturing a bit off topic, I think Lolligag brings up a really good point. I've been consistently surprised by the ages of Hetalia fans - firstly by how young some of the people I've talked to online have turned out to be (I'm pretty sure when I was fourteen, I wasn't starting sentences with "Just off the top of my head, I think that should refer to the Second Peace of Thorn rather than the Prussian Homage...") - and secondly by how OLD some of the fans I have been unfortunate enough to be cornered by in public have been (I could have sworn blind that several of them were still teenagers when they were in fact older than I am). It's a mistake to equate age with maturity, as it's definitely the 'immature cosplayers' rather than the 'young cosplayers' - although of course some people ARE both - who cause the problem.

This point also gets raised periodically in Hetalia specific communities and inevitably gets argued to a standstill, as everyone present agrees that it's not right and then realises that the people attracting negative attention are probably the same ones skipping over or ignoring the discussion. Every fandom's got that bunch of guys that nobody seems to be associated with and everyone wishes would just go away and stop ruining it for the rest of us. Hetalia's bunch of guys is just... really big and obvious >.>

I think a lot of Hetalia fans are just really immature. I mean, I'm only 16, but I feel like I can handle myself with a series, and not just like fandom overload, and act like an idiot. Age may not be the issue, seeing as I've met plenty of fans who are older than me that are still complete idiots. Maturity is more of the issue. For example, I was at a convention, and there was just a hoard of them sitting in the lobby of the convention center making out. And the night before, the same ones were running through the convention center screaming. I actually have been sworn out by those ones as well for giving a bit of creative criticism of a "Truth or Dare" Hetalia panel they're trying to run. They're all like 18-20 years old.

I think the flag issue ties in with the maturity level of the fans, as well. I saw a lot of Hetalia cosplayers with huge flags that we're just keeping to themselves, and not causing trouble. I've used my flags in shoots, but we were careful to be respectful about it.

Hakoshi
08-23-2010, 01:54 AM
I know that the whole flag issue is big. Especially with American cosplayer. I being an America cos player myself, ever since have ha d ahuge respect for the flag, so I will usually have a small flag. Though a lot of countries, Denmark for example. See there flag as just a sign of happiness, and do not take it as seriously as Americans tend to do. I think Russians take their flag seriously and to heart. but some nations just see it as a symbol of their culture, not so much a symbol of fighting for your country and honor as American's do. No beef on Americans, it is just our culture to respect our flag. xD

TrannyMess
08-24-2010, 07:45 AM
To be quite honest, I'm sick of this conversation showing up on Hetalia cosplay forums. A quick search would have shown that it has been discussed and agreed upon by most on numerous occasions.

That being said, while the American flag is the only flag that has set laws for proper flag etiquette, other flags should be treated in a similar fashion. The United Nations lists basic flag etiquette for most flags and it really does not take much to run a google search to look these standards up before bringing a large flag to a convention.

To say that other countries do not care is not true. I know Canadians and Europeans who feel just as strongly about the respect of their flags as many Americans. It is a symbol of the country and, therefore, a very important symbol to most citizens. Even if some people do not care, there will be others who will be offended by disrespect to their flag. It's best just to show respect to all flags or not use them at all.

Flags should generally never touch the ground and never be displayed in a manner in which they could be damaged easily (ex. being worn as capes). They should also never be written on and should be disposed of in a respectful manner when torn or too dirty to display. When carrying a large flag and walking, the bottom of the flag should be clasped in the hand holding the pole so that it does not touch the ground or get caught on anything. This make them a lot easier to carry around a con as a flag pole is often smaller than many large props.

Now, these are only true for actual flags. For example, a blanket made to look like a flag may be worn as a cape. If you can not show respect for flags but want a similar effect, I suggest something like this.

Basic Flag Etiquette For Many Countries:
http://www.flags-flags-flags.org.uk/index.htm

Ichigo Knight
09-26-2010, 07:35 PM
Woah, I never even knew this was a problem D: Being Australian, we have rather different customs, but we're much more casual about our use of flag, in my opinion. It's interesting to hear what other countries have to say, as the American flag use is rather different~ I do think carrying around a large flag must be rather cumbersome though, and I probably won't do it, as it would be quite inconvenient.

Edit: I just read the rules that TrannyMess posted, and I have to say, we don't follow them at all D: I don't suspect anyone really cares though~

Emiko87
09-28-2010, 11:15 AM
I cosplay Lithuania, so I went to see what their flag etiquette was on that link, but it wasn't listed...anyway I have a small Lithuanian flag, about 18x11" or so, that I carry when I cosplay, and I just treat it exactly like I would an American flag. I think that if people would just treat other nations' flags with the same respect that they do their own, it wouldn't be a problem. Earlier someone said that flags are only symbols so it isn't as serious to be less careful with them as to disrespect the actual thing they stand for...well, the point of a symbol is that it represents something, and to disrespect that symbol is to disrespect the thing it stands for. I wouldn't abuse my Lithuanian flag or treat it like a meaningless rag on a stick because I know it means a lot to the people of that country, and even though I don't know any Lithuanians personally and have never been there I know enough about their history to know that being able to fly their own flag in their own free country means a lot to them. So I respect that. If you are carrying the symbolic representation of someone else's homeland, you should respect that just as if you had someone from that country right there watching you.

RantingLunatic
10-27-2010, 04:52 AM
To me, flags are fabric. I don't view them as some "idol" and think there's anything special about them. I actual find the endless U.S. flag rules to be silly and unnecessary. This has nothing to to with me liking and wanting to cosplay Hetalia. This is how I've always felt. It's greatly tied in with my dislike for be forced to say the monotheistic National Anthem with a hand over my heart and being taught at an young age that America is the greatest country in existence and has no faults. I know this is way off topic, but I'm attempting to explain my views so I don't get completely attacked after posting this.

Now I will certainly not be actively trying to damage or disrespect the flag I'll be using. But if I'm carrying it and it accidentally touches the ground, I'll simply shrug my shoulders and lift it higher to keep it clean. I may even sit on said flag on the grass during a photo shoot or a picnic. There's so much fanart of that anyway.

Mistdragon13
02-02-2011, 05:16 PM
I'm a younger cosplayer and because of my cadet training I know about proper flag customs (at least in Canada) and It really bugs me when someone disrespects the nations flag they are carrying. I believe it is a good idea for hetalia cosplayers to look up what the proper flag customs are before they decide to carry one around at a con. I have never gone up and bugged someone about it, but it does get one my nerves.

As for the really big flags, i just think that would be a pain to carry around all day >.> and the worry about it touching the ground would just be too much for me xD

Axelai
02-03-2011, 12:14 AM
To me, flags are fabric. I don't view them as some "idol" and think there's anything special about them. I actual find the endless U.S. flag rules to be silly and unnecessary. This has nothing to to with me liking and wanting to cosplay Hetalia. This is how I've always felt. It's greatly tied in with my dislike for be forced to say the monotheistic National Anthem with a hand over my heart and being taught at an young age that America is the greatest country in existence and has no faults. I know this is way off topic, but I'm attempting to explain my views so I don't get completely attacked after posting this.

Now I will certainly not be actively trying to damage or disrespect the flag I'll be using. But if I'm carrying it and it accidentally touches the ground, I'll simply shrug my shoulders and lift it higher to keep it clean. I may even sit on said flag on the grass during a photo shoot or a picnic. There's so much fanart of that anyway.

Regardless of your personal views on the matter, all you're doing is making the Hetalia fandom look bad. You're the exact type of person i lecture at gatherings, and/or remove from our Hetalia cosplay group.

smilestyle
02-04-2011, 03:00 PM
I might be a little different, but I was raised to ALWAYS respect the flag and the symbolism it carries. My country is very dear to my heart and I can generally respect other people's opinions and beliefs, but I get furious when I see someone disrespecting America or her flag. And I do not buy the excuse that you do not see the symbolism therefore flag etiquette does not apply to you - that is how it is in this country, those are the rules, and you do not get to choose your own rules because you don't agree with them. That's not how life works.

Because I'm unaware of other flag customs, I hold the same respect for other countries' flags that I do for the American flag, just to be safe. I don't have time to research and memorize the flag etiquette of every country in the world, so I will treat each one with the highest respect, and I expect others to do the same unless they know the flag etiquette of that particular country and can recite it back to me. That being said, if I witnessed anyone doing anything disrespectful to a flag, I'd very politely ask them to stop and be kinder, and if they persisted or argued, I don't know how much control I'd have to not just rage off on them. Mistreating a flag is a serious offense for me, and it's one of the few things that sets me off.

I think most Hetalia cosplayers are just unaware of the etiquette and how they could potentially offend someone, and if politely confronted, would then treat their flag in a more appropriate manner.

XxChibiArtistxX
06-23-2011, 01:03 AM
As a Hetalia cosplayer, stuff like this is the reason why I refuse to carry a flag for any of my cosplays. Since I'm only 14, I am on the younger side, but for some strange reason, people have been confusing me for being 18-20 years old since I was 12, so I feel that if I were to accidentally disrespect a flag, people would take it worse/be more offended by it since I look older and thus have to act more 'mature' than other people my age because of that...plus flags cost extra money, and I hate carrying around stuff anyways XD;

Big flags do annoy me on occasion though. At an anime convention I went to back in October, my friend was hanging out with a Russia cosplayer who had a big flag (It was on a pole though) and she asked if she could hold it. I was standing right behind her taking to someone else, and she started waving it around, and decked me in the back of the head with it >_> Multiple times (On accident of course!) It still really sucked though

Al-meow
06-23-2011, 02:05 PM
Honesty, I think at a con, having a huge flag you have to carry sound really really annoying and unnecessary. If you need a big flag to tell which character you are, you're doing something wrong. If you have small flag it's not as big as a deal.

It's kind of tacky in my opinion. There's not reason for it.. Plus it looks bad on the cosplayer and the fandom.

Axelai
06-24-2011, 03:18 AM
Honesty, I think at a con, having a huge flag you have to carry sound really really annoying and unnecessary. If you need a big flag to tell which character you are, you're doing something wrong. If you have small flag it's not as big as a deal.

It's kind of tacky in my opinion. There's not reason for it.. Plus it looks bad on the cosplayer and the fandom.

I disagree. Large flags can be used to make yourself a bit unique in comparison to other cosplayers, as well as it can be a beacon to your friends (ie. "I'm the Russia with the big flag!" in a text to your friend who wouldn't recognize you otherwise). It also helps if someone doesn't know Hetalia too well won't repeatedly ask you who you are (for example, I wish I had an Italian flag on me as Happy Materials Italy; people who didn't know Hetalia kept asking me if I was Germany). It can also be great for pictures as well.

I believe as long as the person with the flag is treating it with respect, as well as respecting those around them, it isn't an issue.

I personally had a full sized flag with me as Prussia at Fanime. I held it high enough that it wouldn't drag on the ground, and when I was outdoors (where the wind was blowing), I wrapped the edges of it in my hand so it wouldn't wave and hit someone. Whenever I would get stopped for a picture, I'd hold the edges of the flag so it almost made a background for myself. Made for much more flattering photos than the average con shot.

Eyesabelle
06-24-2011, 09:29 AM
I don't know what you would consider this but recently I saw a group of Hetalia cosplayers and one had a French flag. One that was large and on a pole.

They had written on the white area(The flag is blue/white/red (http://unimaps.com/flags-europe/france-flag.gif)). Although I could not make out what was written on it, what would you consider that? Writing on a legitimate flag.

Hey, I know this's an old post, but I think I may know who you speak it. It might have been a friend of mine, who,forgot flag manners and when lacking paper the VAs of Hetalia simply signed it. She felt rather bad about it after the fact.


Anyway, flags. Before I have carried around a small flag, the sort on a dowel, but after two of them being snapped I've got to solve how to do America.
For a upcoming Steampunk!Austria/Austrian Empire, however, I decided it should be a bit more grandiose, which means that yes, I am using a large 3x5 flag.
The handy thing is my historical-accuracy nitpicking has allowed me to decide on the Habsburg standard, which is a horizontal bicolor of black and yellow. It is a flag that has not been used for literally a hundred years, so the rules on it are possibly less stringent, though I'm sure as hell not going to. I'm the aforementioned history buff and will snap at people who disrespect people, places, or events in history. The includes the integrity and symbol of a country, both past and present.


Basically, respect yer flag, y'all, or I'm going to, in all likely-hood, shove a lecture down your throat.

Al-meow
06-24-2011, 09:55 AM
I disagree. Large flags can be used to make yourself a bit unique in comparison to other cosplayers, as well as it can be a beacon to your friends (ie. "I'm the Russia with the big flag!" in a text to your friend who wouldn't recognize you otherwise). It also helps if someone doesn't know Hetalia too well won't repeatedly ask you who you are (for example, I wish I had an Italian flag on me as Happy Materials Italy; people who didn't know Hetalia kept asking me if I was Germany). It can also be great for pictures as well.

I believe as long as the person with the flag is treating it with respect, as well as respecting those around them, it isn't an issue.

I personally had a full sized flag with me as Prussia at Fanime. I held it high enough that it wouldn't drag on the ground, and when I was outdoors (where the wind was blowing), I wrapped the edges of it in my hand so it wouldn't wave and hit someone. Whenever I would get stopped for a picture, I'd hold the edges of the flag so it almost made a background for myself. Made for much more flattering photos than the average con shot.


I agree that sometimes flags look good in a photoshoot. I've just seen alot of cosplayer not treat them as well as you do.

I'm glad that you treat it with respect if you do carry it.

Axelai
06-24-2011, 12:29 PM
I agree that sometimes flags look good in a photoshoot. I've just seen alot of cosplayer not treat them as well as you do.

I'm glad that you treat it with respect if you do carry it.

I don't think you should dislike everyone who has large flags, but instead, the ones who mistreat them. Thats what I do. I love having one with me, and I treat it well. Its the people who disrespect them that I don't like. I really hate being lumped together with them.

ToroSonyCat
06-24-2011, 12:56 PM
Most Hetalia cosplayers are complete idiots, I've learned, and are hard to reason with

Way to generalise. I've met lots of wonderful friends through Hetalia cosplaying and none of them are like that.

XxChibiArtistxX
06-24-2011, 10:01 PM
Large flags can be used to make yourself a bit unique in comparison to other cosplayers, as well as it can be a beacon to your friends (ie. "I'm the Russia with the big flag!" in a text to your friend who wouldn't recognize you otherwise).\

That being said, you don't necessarily need a big flag to look unique/original. Like at this year's AB, when I was looking for a friend, I just texted them something along the lines of 'I'm the Italy with a cookie monster backpack hanging out with Turkey' *shrugs* just a thought from someone who hates carrying big things around lol Though I do agree it helps find other cosplayers, like 'is that a Russian flag I see in the distance? *runs*'

VictoriaRosen
10-16-2011, 07:58 PM
...that depends on whats written. Though i can't think of anything that'd be appropriate on a french flag. I don't see a problem with the writing itself, as long as its not anything offensive, bad, or just poorly written.

Though like i said, i honestly can't think of anything that WOULDN'T be disrespectful on it.

The French flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing on the flag of any nature


This info is specifically for the French Flag! I only know info for the French and American Flag because I cosplay France and I am American. Even just carrying around a French flag is considered a sign of disrespect

Convulsive
10-17-2011, 05:05 PM
I'm kind of glad this thread has tons of varying opinions on it. I think giant flags are a great prop, I plan on getting some for all of my next Hetalia cosplays (Prussia, America, Britain, Russia, in that order).

but here's a question: what do you do with a flag when you need to sit down/do something with your hands? Do you roll it up onto the pole and gently set it down?

Codename Otacon
10-17-2011, 08:58 PM
but here's a question: what do you do with a flag when you need to sit down/do something with your hands? Do you roll it up onto the pole and gently set it down?

This should help you---> http://www.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=237953

Ineedaname9
10-18-2011, 12:41 AM
I'm kind of glad this thread has tons of varying opinions on it. I think giant flags are a great prop, I plan on getting some for all of my next Hetalia cosplays (Prussia, America, Britain, Russia, in that order).

but here's a question: what do you do with a flag when you need to sit down/do something with your hands? Do you roll it up onto the pole and gently set it down?

I suggest folding it properly and putting it in a bag. Only putting it on the pole for photoshoots or when you know you can carry it for a while.

How to fold a flag: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/foldflag.htm

I don't think this applies to something like the soviet union flag in America though, you get crap because you fold it respectfully so yeah... >.> ( if you plan on using it for Russia or something)

Convulsive
10-18-2011, 06:10 PM
This should help you---> http://www.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=237953

I suggest folding it properly and putting it in a bag. Only putting it on the pole for photoshoots or when you know you can carry it for a while.

How to fold a flag: http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/foldflag.htm

I don't think this applies to something like the soviet union flag in America though, you get crap because you fold it respectfully so yeah... >.> ( if you plan on using it for Russia or something)

Oh, I see!
Thanks guys!

Deru-Wisper
12-30-2011, 02:56 PM
O.o The only reason I would bring a large flag to a con would be if I was doing a Hetalia skit (Like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6h-ZvIWUWs&feature=related ), but other than that it seems like it would be horrible having to carry it around all day.

HerrLudwig
01-01-2012, 02:16 PM
You can always make a handheld flag out of construction paper. That's what I did for my Canada cosplay. I would never carry a huge flag around with hundreds of people bumping into me.

crazdpastry
01-14-2012, 09:43 AM
I belong to an anime club and we have quite a few Hetalia cosplayers there (for a relatively small group, that is). Their ages range from 14-17, and I have to say that I have never once seen any of them disrespecting any sort of flag at all. So, it certainly is not age that matters on the subject of being disrespectful, but maturity. I've never been to a con, however, so I'm sure there are people who do 'mess around' with flags and I have to say, I'm glad it's not anyone I know because it's those people who give fandoms bad names. Not saying they're bad people or deserved to get kicked out of a con for it but....

Even if they're not doing anything wrong *besides* disrespecting a flag they may be carrying, I do not in anyway think that's right. If it's simply a mistake because they don't know flag etiquette, then I believe they should have the sense to look up some of the rules before doing anything with a flag. Now, maybe it's just because I'm American and my father was in the Military so I was raised to respect flags, and I admit, we have quite a few rules about how to treat the American flag, but I would be horrified to see anybody treating *any* country's (countries') flag badly.

Overall, I think everyone should know the basics just to avoid offending the multitudes: Keep it off the ground, don't do anything that'll cause it harm, and just in general- treat it like you'd treat those antique tea-cups your mom loves so much; if the teacups don't mean much to you, at least think about how your mother would feel in regards to you mistreating them? I believe it's the same principle. To the people who's nations have different customs regarding flags, okay. That's all on you. You're in your country, so it's up to you to treat your flag the way you were taught to.


As for carrying large flags, I've never been one to like carrying props of any kind. But I think that they'd be something interesting to take photos with. However, using the poles for sword-fights? Distasteful, random cosplayer, distasteful.

Fiddlesticks
01-27-2012, 01:24 AM
I was raised in the United Kingdom and until I started interacting with American Hetalia fans online I had absolutely no idea that flag etiquette even existed. No-one I knew would even have thought twice about putting a flag on the ground or anything. It was just never a big deal to us. I might have lived in an isolated pocket of flag-haters, but that was just how it was for me.

But since I learned that people have a problem with this, I'm planning to be careful with my flag when my Liechtenstein cosplay is done. I don't know what flag etiquette rules are for Liechtenstein, but I don't see any reason not to at least keep it clean and in good condition just out of respect. So what I'm trying to say is, if you want to bring a flag (and I do, because I have this thing about flags - I could just stare at them all day), then it shouldn't be too difficult to treat it well even if it's not a major cultural thing for you to do so. I'm not going to stress over it, but I will keep it in mind.

And hey, if in doubt, just bring a small flag. Then you won't have to worry so much.

Katemein
04-20-2012, 11:43 PM
Hetalia cosplayer here. I know this topic is a little old, but I wanted to add a different view on this.

Personally, I don't carry a flag around. I did once for America and decided not to ever again. It was a small flag, maybe 8" x 12"...but it was a hassle to deal with and I don't like having to worry about offending someone with a prop.

Anyway, I don't see much point in carrying a flag. America is the only character in the series I can see flaunting one about anyway. It seems rather out-of-character for the other countries to be carrying their flags, no? Just my personal opinion.

^And this by no means is me saying America cosplayers should tote around flags. If you're going to carry any flag at a con, the American flag is the most risky. You're more likely to offend people if anything does happen to it.

IenzoRenaNipah
12-22-2012, 06:26 PM
Just respect the flags. Please just do.

Hallanvaara
12-25-2012, 05:20 PM
I have carried my United Kingdom flag around, but not anymore. It was hard to carry and I have started to think ''Why would I even need a flag?''. None of countries have (I might be mistaken but) carried their flag around in the series and so won't I. Like Katemein said, it would be a little out-of-character.

And how people threat flags depends very much on culture. I'm from Finland and this may be shocking, but flags aren't a big deal here. People would more likely watch like an idiot if you 'respect' a flag like Americans (not everyone of course, but you got the point?) do. It's quite normal to put the flag on the ground and sit on it, wear it as a cape, throw them around and if someone I don't know, spills their milkshakes on it the owner would most likely say ''Okay, give me five euros so I can go and buy a new one''. No big deal here.

Sehardt1
01-12-2013, 01:38 AM
I am a America, England, Germany, and Sewden cosplayer. And I have large (the size you would hang from your house), medium (size you would put in your front yard), and small for each of those countries. Each size has its time and place. At larger cons (Katsucon, Otakon) were there is space to move around with the large flags is fine. But at small cons held in hotels not equipt with a convention center (T-mode, maybe Anime Mid-Atlantic) the smaller flags would be better. But this is somthing that I have learned over the many years that I have been have yet to cosplaying. Most Hetalia cosplayers are young and inexperianced so they have yet to learn about large props.
I use my flags as backdrops for photos, personal photoshoots, or a prop to hold when my character has nothing to hold. There have been times that they were on the ground because the pole fell when it was leaning on something or it slid of the surface that I placed it on and the polyester is slippery. When it does happen I try to mediately pick up the flag. I have yet to see Hetalia cosplayers to fight with the poles when the flag is on said pole, though I would not put it past some.
At most if not all of the photoshoots that I have attended or ran we gave clear rules about flags. 'No hitting people with the poles, not fighting with the flags still on the poles, no flag caps, and try to keep the flags off of the ground.' But then after the photoshoot, they can do what they please. And it is only a select few Hetalia cosplayers that might do such things to flags. The entire Hetalia cosplay community does not disrespect the flags. Just like every single fanbase in anime, movies, comics, TV shows, books, manga, and everything inbetween, there are a few bad apples that give a bad rap to the entire fanbase. Because people focus on the bad things that happen and imagine that everyone else in the fanbase does it as well. And that is never true.

IenzoRenaNipah
02-24-2013, 02:28 PM
If I have my Latvian flag with me, I treat it like it's my BABY. Seriously. If Hetalians are going to cosplay as a nation, they better know how to take care of a flag or I'll be flag-police (did it at AWA) "YOUR FLAG IS TOUCHING THE GROUND. RAISE IT HIGHER. DON'T WRITE ANYTHING ON IT. DON'T WEAR IT AS A CAPE OR BLANKET. Don't make me go Russia on you."

JelloTheFish
03-11-2013, 06:37 PM
I feel like Hetalia plus cosplay always equals the Great Flag Debate. On a Hetequette blog, the majority decided that going by the American flag rules (especially in America) is best, even if it's stricter then the actual country's rules. That way you won't get people complaining and bugging you and you won't be worrying about disrespecting the flag. (You always should still look up the country's rules, just in case there's something like don't-ever-carry-it-around-especially-to-a-con hidden in there :P)

Personally, I don't find the big flags needed. Even when you roll the flag up or carry it high and careful, it still takes up room in crowded places. Especially escalators. Flags and escalators just don't work for some reason. The biggest fact is that most people don't respect the flags, and some quite frankly, don't care. These people are disrespecting not only the countries, but also the fandom. It's one of the main reasons I'm considering crawling back into the Hetalia closet...

tl;dr -> just have some respect okay?

zeochan
03-20-2013, 10:59 PM
I am planning on getting a big Russian flag for when I cosplay Russia. I, myself am not Russian, but I will treat it like any other prop or like if it was my own country's flag. As long as I fold it nicely and put in my bag when not in use (and do not feel like carrying it any more), and not touching the floor or anything like that, I should be ok. My friend cosplayed Scotland, and she brought the Scottish flag with her, but it was a small one; but regardless she didn't do anything wrong with it. My other friend cosplayed Pirate!England and she brought the UK flag with her, the big one with a flag pole, and she posed with it when people asked for pictures and she carried it around like a normal prop. I think what others did when they sat down in the shade to relax and stuff at Anime North (because it was outside in the summer) they put their flags resting against a tree. I wasn't cosplaying from Hetalia at the time, so I didn't have a flag, but even if I had I probably wouldn't have brought a flag with me. At Dtac, I was Casual Canada and I brought a big Canadian flag with me. I was careful with it of course, and once I was done with it, I put it in my bag. I'm Canadian so of course I would take care of my own country's flag, but yeah pretty much as long you're being careful, you should be ok.