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Goth Kitty 22
10-04-2003, 03:05 AM
There is alot of talk about wearing garments of the opposite gender. But you also have to try them on first. How do you handle this? Are there laws against going into another gender's fitting room? I ask this because the're usually spaced very far apart.

Menchi
10-04-2003, 04:38 AM
maybe someone might have experience or better advice, but to my knowledge isnt any law against it that i know of. they have the thing for swimsuits/underwear/bras where you cant jus throw it on nothin under but its a health code. but for say a guy wantin to try on a cute camisole or somethin i dont know of a law against it...the looks would be odd n priceless but that is a societal thing.

as for somethin to avoid it maybe the following will help:

i remember one time readin on a site where this guy woud go into dept stores full drag an such was saying something on the lines of using a tape measure (sewing type) to measure parts where stuff woud fit on ya (shoulders, chest, waist, hips, etc) an writing it down on paper. then somethin like goin to the store with you paper an a tape measure (hardware stanley type) an finding garments an measuring it against your measurements.

another option i see is maybe sizing the stuff out online (if they got a web site for their store/brand) an finding out online what the measurements are so you can jus walk in payin for it an walkin out.

my only other idea is do the rather silly an kinda cheesy old thing of holding it up to your body an seeing if it woud work...not exact but for a guy to say look at a dress at some store and not get a wierd look is jus yeah.

:woah:

LunarYoma
10-04-2003, 06:34 AM
There is alot of talk about wearing garments of the opposite gender. But you also have to try them on first. How do you handle this? Are there laws against going into another gender's fitting room? I ask this because the're usually spaced very far apart.

Well if you are a guy, then take all your measurements of your body. All these are what is typically needed if you have custome clothing made or alter clothing to fit you.
That is measurements of your hips(widest part), waist, chest(around the nipples), around the shoulders, arm length(from shoulder blade to your wrist). Plus inner seam(measureing along the inner part of the leg) is from your crotch to the floor/ankle.


For womens measurements most any site that sells womens clothing will tell you hot to measure for womens measurements. measuring for the hips & waist is very simple. doing the measurements for the breasts is a little harder, but not that hard.


I am 6'1" & 150lbs, tall & skinny. Based on my own measurements i am naturally 35 for chest, 32 for waist & 34 for hips.
Female measurements(with fake breasts & padding i have for hipps/ass) i am a 38 - 30-38. If i wear a corset i can get my waist down to 27 inches which starts to get annoying after an hour. I take it down to about 28 or 29 inches which is very comfortable for me & i can be in the corset like this for several hours.

For bras i figured my size is a 36B. I bought a smaller size that what i figured out(which i went to about 8 or 9 websites just to make sure i was doing it right) which which was a 37 & 1/2 B. The 36B is perfect.

For full length/short dresses i am a 10-12 for a tight fit. For skirts i am a medium & tops i am a large.



If your math skills are not very good, have someone help you in taking your measurements & figuring everything out.

If you cant do that & you got some extra money, goto good will & buy female clothing that you think might fit you & try it on at home. If they dont fit, then you didnt waste much money cause they were cheap in the first place

Also you can always buy clothing at stores that have a return policy on them. Take your female measurements with you on paper(including height, & inseam if you are going to buy pants/jeans). When you goto the store, act confused & ask a sales person(perferably a young female sales person or a gay male) and say that you are looking to buy something for your sister or girl friend. Give them the general idea of the item you have in mind & they will help you in finding the correct sizes for the clothing.

When you get the clothing, take them home(leave the tags on the clothing. do not take them off) & try them on. If they fit you, keep them. If they dont font fit, take them back to the store & get your money back.

Mizuno Tenshi
10-04-2003, 07:58 AM
Some stores are nice about it, some aren't.
Department stores tend to be the worst... they have seperate fitting rooms, so you have to take anything you want to try to a men's fitting room. I'm not the most comfortable going into a guy's fitting room anyways.
Small shops are the best. Go during non-busy times. Ask nicely for help, and it will usually be provided. Some of the salespeople have been really nice, and I'm in a really, really conservative section of the bible belt. Go for hipper, younger stores. All depends on what you want. Places like Express, Lerner, and so are very nice.
As far as underwear goes, go to a Victoria's Secret. Their staff has seen much worse. Just about all of the sales girls will help measure you for a bra, etc. (Don't wear baggy tops for this.)
Most places that sell formal gowns are really nice when no other customers are there.
Asking before you shop is also not a bad idea. Could save a fair amount of time. And while they legally should let you try stuff on, don't worry too much if they don't. Just leave and go somewhere else. It's not worth the hassle.
For the record, I shop while dressed as a normal guy. I think it may help that I'm twig thin and look good in about anything I try on... my big fitting problem is usually the waist being too loose, which helps. *shrugs*
Just go for it.

Tenshi

Merle-kun
10-07-2003, 01:00 PM
I know "by law" a store can't refuse a person of any gender to try on any article of clothing. But I do know that no "genetic male" can go into an area designated for females, such as the bathroom. I'm assuming this applies to fitting rooms and any places where women will be vulnerable (aka partially nakie ^^;).

This will cause problems in a girls only shop. Since they don't have guys' dressing rooms. So it's best to do as Tenshi suggests, and simply ask. Personally, if I went through all the heartache to work up the courage to ask, and they refused, I would throw the law in their face. It probably isn't worth the hassle, but to me it's a matter of principal. You can always ask to see the manager, and if that fails, send a letter to the company head quarters, perhaps you'll get something out of it =3

I tend to do as Lunar suggests, since I won't go do any 'womanly shopping' by myself ^^; I just measure, and order anything I need over the internet. Or, I con my mom into buying it for me when we're out, so I can blame it on her =3 Though not all of us are blessed with understanding parents.

ACXchan
10-07-2003, 08:48 PM
When I've picked up clothing for men I have to try them on in the women's fitting room. I've asked before too so I think there is in fact a rule on fitting room etiquette; genetic males must use the men's rooms and genetic females must use the women's rooms regardless of what you're actually trying on.

For a place like Express there shouldn't be much trouble because most Express stores have a Structure (Express for Men) connected to it. They'd probably just send you there to avoid any shrieking females. Express also tends to be incredibly friendly to anyone with a taste for fashion.

Karisu-sama
10-07-2003, 09:09 PM
When I've picked up clothing for men I have to try them on in the women's fitting room. I've asked before too so I think there is in fact a rule on fitting room etiquette; genetic males must use the men's rooms and genetic females must use the women's rooms regardless of what you're actually trying on.
(It's not "genetic", it's "physical".)
I believe that's correct, but women usually do not get hassled for trying on men's clothing in the women's fittiing rooms. (My daughters buy clothes from the boy's dept. all the time.)

Crossdressing men (especially pre-operation transsexuals) who pass really well as women have sometimes been known to use the women's fitting rooms (and restrooms!), but of course they are running a risk with that.

(And I think they'd be the last ones to "out" themselves as non-female by doing ANYTHING that might upset other women in the fitting room area.)

ACXchan
10-07-2003, 10:20 PM
Karisu: (It's not "genetic", it's "physical".)

I was following the crowd XD Merle-kun mentioned "genetic males" although I personally think even a post-op transexual would be prohibited from using the women's fitting room if said post-op transexual was known to be a male by birth. If nobody can tell though then it wouldn't matter @D@

RHIshida
10-09-2003, 12:56 AM
Karisu: (It's not "genetic", it's "physical".)

I was following the crowd XD Merle-kun mentioned "genetic males" although I personally think even a post-op transexual would be prohibited from using the women's fitting room if said post-op transexual was known to be a male by birth. If nobody can tell though then it wouldn't matter @D@

Actually, post-op MTF transsexuals that have gone to court to have their birth record legally changed to 'female' have every legal right to go into women's restrooms and the like since they are now physically female. Denying a post-op MTF transsexual access to a women's fitting room is like denying a woman the right to access it. Besides, half the time they can't even tell the difference, and I know most post-op MTF transsexuals wouldn't want them to. :P

engrish
10-09-2003, 01:45 AM
Any good bathroom stories?

I was crossplaying at a con(didn't come even close to "passing" :razz: ) and I had to do a food run for my buddies b/c they couldn't go since they were too busy staffing at the con. So I went to the restaurant near the convention center. Anyways I had to take a leak so I went to the bathroom at the restaurant and there was this kid who was about to go into the bathroom also. However when the kid's father saw me go in he frantically grabbed his son's arm and held him back and waited for me to leave the bathroom before letting his son in. The father gave me a couple of dirty looks too! LOL

Karisu-sama
10-09-2003, 01:59 AM
I have several post-op TS friends (most are M-F), and they would be horrifed to have to use a bathroom or fitting room matching their pre-op sex.

Remember, a M-F TS woman is just as much a target for assault and rape as a woman who was born a woman. They are functionally and physically female, and they ARE legally allowed to use women's fitting rooms and bathrooms, and doctors do certify them female whatever their chromosome status.

ACXchan
10-09-2003, 09:27 PM
Jazon Bladen: Actually, post-op MTF transsexuals that have gone to court to have their birth record legally changed to 'female' have every legal right to go into women's restrooms and the like since they are now physically female.

I didn't know that was possible @_@! I was under the impression that the US didn't give transsexuals the rights Karisu states in her later post too. Well, that makes me feel a little better about the US' treatment towards the transsexual community.

Hmm.. what about F-M though? I just have this idea that if a transsexual were *ever* to be "discovered" so to speak by other people in said fitting room or restroom then chances are the transsexual person runs the risk of receiving harsh treatment (be it derogatory language, getting beaten, or raped) from other people in those places simply because transsexuals aren't exactly an accepted people by the majority of America.

Onto the con bathroom stories though.... I always avoid using the bathroom when I'm in costume because I just find it a hassle to have to remove and readjust the costume @D@ Had a friend crossplay (guy to girl) though and when he had to use the restroom.... he got some wide-eyed stares XD

Beware_UY7
10-10-2003, 01:49 AM
Hm, women have no trouble trying on men's clothing, simply because its so normal, but for guy's it's weird. I have a male friend that has no problem though, since he looks female, even if he's in men's clothing.
Hm... maybe if you crossdressed when you went to try on clothing... actually, doing so would make it easier to try on clothing anyway. But if you don't pass for the opposite sex very well, then you might just look odd.

Nine
10-10-2003, 03:31 AM
I'd be REALLLY careful if your concidering trying on womens clothes in a women's changing room. Maybe you can go to a store that's more unisex to try on clothing? I know the store like Old Navy, they're changing rooms are unisex so you can bring in whatever you want to try on.

Once I was in an all women's store trying on a suede jacket for an original costume (ironicly for a guy XD) and the worker ran upto me "eager to help me", but in reality she wanted me to either buy the item or leave. ^^;;

Merle-kun
10-14-2003, 11:11 AM
To clear things up, I found the terms "genetic male" and "genetic female" in something I read, so I just used them with out any second thought. But, physical does make more sense because it can be changed. =3

Bathroom stories... I try to avoid them really. If I have to go, I go aaaall the way back up to my room to go. Solely because I'm embarassed to think of what might happen if I do go in the guy's restroom ^^; People do mistake me for a girl, so imagine a guy seeing a 'girl' at a urinal as soon as he comes in ^^;; I had to do that once, that got some odd stares from the janitor that walked in on me. So much for the safeness of really late night potty breaks ^^; I think he questioned which bathroom he was cleaning for a moment. =3

T4uRu$k4tt
11-05-2003, 02:23 AM
just thought i'd throw my two cents in while i saw this: i know for a fact that if a guy is nice enough (or i guess a girl too, really, if she was really embarrased) victoria's secret will open up early or stay late for you to try stuff on. plus you get all the attention of the girls who work there to help you out, lol. if you didn't want to ask or needed to shop in a different women's store you could probably do the similar thing and go as soon as they open~ they'd be less people in there to care about your gender or what your looking at.

felicity869
11-07-2003, 06:40 PM
Perhaps I'm niave and a wishful thinker for feeling that the world is becoming a more open-minded place and that you shouldn't have to order things online to avoid the dressing room problem. I would think that if you asked the person working nicely if you could try on girl things in a girl dressing room they should let you. I mean its not like you're in an open area where other people can see you so why should it matter? They should be happy to be getting your money and I'd definitly complain to headquarters or the manager of the store or someone if they were rude to you or refused. The thing I'd be worried about is the other customers. Personally if I saw a guy come inot the girls dressing room to try on girl clothing I probably wouldn't even think anything of it (that's what happens when you live in a big city in California) but sadly I do know people that may give that person dirty looks or feel uncomfortable and imediatly leave the dressing room. So hopefully you'd be treated with respect and kindness but you'll never know untill you try...

yasafusa
11-30-2003, 03:21 AM
Well, I was trying to find some support for my falsies, but couldn't really get any idea of size, due to the fact it's hard to measure and hold those puppys up... I put the falsies in my backpack and went into the mall, walked up to th e female undergarments area, grabbed a few in different sizes, styles, colors, etc =3 Then just strolled right up to the male dressing rooms! I was wondering if anyone would be suspicious of my backpack, but the were more interested in my selection of bras I was carrying. It was pretty much no biggie, I them on found two that fit and returned the others back to the racks where I got them... I got a few looks, but not anything more than just that. Now when I went to the counter, the clerk was like, "Got her some nice ones... her birthday?" I told her, "nah, they're the more comfortable ones." Without batting an eyelash, she agreed, "Yeah, I love these, they're great because the materials really soft!" As I walked out, she gave me a little smirk and winked.... Although purchasing them went pretty smoothly, I'm still wondering exactly what the smirk meant... Though the wink was obvious that she knew I wasn't just relaying an opinion on how they fit! hehe just part of the crossplay adventure!

edit: oh, well I dont think it's illeagal to go into the opposite sex's dressing room, the bathroom thing may get you into a little hot water.

meiluy
11-30-2003, 11:49 AM
Oddly enough, when getting the bra I needed for my BT costume I'm working on, I just went straight to the point and told the people in the store ( I have no idea what store it was in, I was to embarrassed to remember) that I needed it for a costume I was doing for a Con (I still haven't done the costume yet :toothy:). I showed them a set of pictures I'd been using for reference, and they were nice enough not to laugh at me. I still have the bra and padding they sold me, and as soon as I finish the staff, I'll be ready to go.

As far as bathroom incidents, I once crossplayed as Ranma-chan, and due to a lot of work on my friends part, actually looked quite feminine. When going to the bathroom at Comic Con, a member of security tried to stop me from going into the guys restroom. After I looke dhim in the eye and said, in a deeper voice than I usually have (my normal voice at the time was kind of neutral) I said, "Well, if you want me to go to the girl's restroom, then all right. But I don't think they'll appreciate it." He mumbled an apology and I said it was all right, and actually became good friends with him later on (I was staffing at Comic Con that year)

dani
11-30-2003, 12:22 PM
trying on before purchasing is always the best, but when that's not available for any reason the next-best options are:

- KNOW YOUR SIZES, and either carry a measuring tape with you or relate measures to parts of your body. For example I know how my waist fits in my forearm lenght, so I can know if something will fit my waist just by holding one end on my hand and pulling the other end of the waist towards my elbow.

- ASK FOR A RETURN POLICY. most stores will refund/exchange if someone comes back a day after a purchase asking for a different size. So you can try on in the confort of your own home.

Cheers...

Dani

BIOJECT
12-03-2003, 08:20 PM
I buy everything online because I want to avoid the rude employees who can mock me. Online is great! Yeah you don't get the nice helpfulness of a person, but they usually provide conveniant charts to help you measure correctly.