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DireKitty
02-21-2011, 08:11 AM
Right now Libya (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12523669), Algeria (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12515315), Morocco (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12524647), Yemen, Jordan, Bahrain (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12508082) and other countries are protesting their governments, already Egypt and Tunisia have created a revolution.

What are your thoughts on this amazing domino effect bringing change to the middle east?

Chipface
02-21-2011, 10:01 AM
Finally! Someone has made a thread about this. Being an anarchist(and someone who just loves freedom in general), I'm absolutely loving what's going on right now. This is how freedom is achieved, by the people taking it, not military intervention.

DireKitty
02-21-2011, 10:27 AM
Finally! Someone has made a thread about this. Being an anarchist(and someone who just loves freedom in general), I'm absolutely loving what's going on right now. This is how freedom is achieved, by the people taking it, not military intervention.

It all started in Tunisia with a fruit vendor who was sick and tired of making 10 dollars a day, and then having his scale taken by some corrupt bureaucrat who wanted a bribe to get it back. He set himself on fire in front of the local government office, and later died, but he sparked a revolution of people just like him, who were sick and tired of never getting anywhere in life while they sat on their thrones pulling billions of dollars out of the country.

I'm hopeful it doesn't end there, and that these other countries are also able to bring about change and get what they want, democracy.

Chipface
02-21-2011, 10:56 AM
Me too. The situation in Egypt really worries me though. Mubarak may have "stepped down" but the military is now in charge. I hope it ends up more like Costa Rica than Burma.

Alot of people tend to think that people in the middle east are primitive but really they're no different than us. They want freedom and to not live in poverty. This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThvBJMzmSZI) here really captures the protests in Egypt well.

Kildread
02-21-2011, 11:10 AM
It's hard to have an informed opinion on all of this when you aren't there (Like me). As much as this information age makes everything available to us through the media, through the internet, through people living there retelling the events --- there's something that's still lost in the process and that people interpret however they want.

Still, I'm on the fence right now, none of us can really say what changes this will bring in the end (Whether it will be good for the people who living in those countries --- at least those who are left when this ends).

There's a lot of mob mentality that seems to be going on over there, I might be a little bold in saying some of the damage being wrought is just for the sake of causing it.

The Hag
02-21-2011, 11:40 AM
There's a lot of mob mentality that seems to be going on over there, I might be a little bold in saying some of the damage being wrought is just for the sake of causing it.

There will always be lawless thugs who will take advantage of social and political unrest for their own gain. That's true everywhere, including the U.S. (maybe not in Canada - they seem awfully nice! ^_~) I agree with both your points though that we at a distance can't know exactly what is going on and that the future is uncertain. But as a path to democracy, mostly non-violent home-grown political defiance has a better chance to succeed than armed invasion and occupation by foreigners - not to mention the added benefit of fewer deaths and refugees. I choose to be optimistic for now.

Kildread
02-21-2011, 12:17 PM
That's true everywhere, including the U.S. (maybe not in Canada - they seem awfully nice! ^_~)

Amusing you'd say that in a thread where only Canadians replied yet ;)

But on a serious note, it's not entirely the case. There frequently damage done around the big cities (Especially Montreal) in Québec when large events happen.

It's been heavily noticed to happen during Hockey events, like victories of the local team --- the people doing the damage are not even fans, but using the events as cover for their wrong-doings.

Rosemary_red
02-21-2011, 12:45 PM
Even though I think that this firestorm in the middle east is a good thing for freedom there is still the long and hard road of forming a new goverment. In my opinion, we should not only focus on the present but to the future of these countries to make sure that these new goverments will be ones based on well being for all its people.

Formalhaut
02-21-2011, 01:23 PM
well, Im just praying that my friends and I wont be sent there And for those who are praising this as "change"? thats what happened to Iran. the shah was deposed and replaced with a megolomaniacal dictator. If they all adopt true democracy, awesome. I know there were people who had a pipe dream of bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan would cause the countries around them to revolt, which may not have been much of a pipe dream after all. However, nothing is stopping a super-religious government stepping in either. No matter what, though, this seems big. Iran is still recovering from 2009, and they were the only one's dealing with an uprising. I have a feeling that gains in one country will motivate protesters in other countries.

TL;DR
Arabs are either going to embrace democracy, work it, and maintain the same or better relations with the US, or they are going to fall into the hands of Iranian bullshit and turn on us. I don't see a middle ground here. It's up to us to be proactive in giving our support behind their transition, but I fear we're not doing enough right now.

When places like Kuwait and Bahrain start going down this road, it kind of gets scary, because I've never known of of any major problems in those countries. They just seem to pissed off--which is definetly their right if it is warranted--at things going on. Hopefully they don't direct it towards us

Yukikittie
02-21-2011, 01:48 PM
I say good for them! I hope their revolutions for Democracy succeed, and more people have more human rights.
... Now then, America. Let's not get involved in this. C8

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 02:28 PM
I'm taking a class on Middle Eastern Politics, so I know somewhat about what is going on.
One thing I've learned, America gets involved with everything in the middle east mainly because of Israel and oil. (The biggest lobby in America is the AIPAC...)

Another thing I learned, Egypt and Tunisia had it coming they just needed the spark. In Egypt, the Military being in power is the best bet since it is the largest group in Egypt, also all of Egypt's leaders have been military men. They are also well respected and own a amount of companies.

As far as democracy goes, people have it totally wrong. It does not always work, HAMAS came into power in the West Bank thru a vote....HAMAS is a terrorist organization.... In the nations rebelling and rioting the the group you have to worry about coming into power is the Muslim Brotherhood. (In Egypt's last vote, they came in second to Mubarak....they are illegal in Egypt....)

Quite honestly, I'd prefer a government like Saudi Arabia than to have a the Muslim Brotherhood go into power in a vote....

Chipface
02-21-2011, 02:29 PM
well, Im just praying that my friends and I wont be sent there And for those who are praising this as "change"? thats what happened to Iran. the shah was deposed and replaced with a megolomaniacal dictator. If they all adopt true democracy, awesome. I know there were people who had a pipe dream of bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan would cause the countries around them to revolt, which may not have been much of a pipe dream after all. However, nothing is stopping a super-religious government stepping in either. No matter what, though, this seems big. Iran is still recovering from 2009, and they were the only one's dealing with an uprising. I have a feeling that gains in one country will motivate protesters in other countries.

TL;DR
Arabs are either going to embrace democracy, work it, and maintain the same or better relations with the US, or they are going to fall into the hands of Iranian bullshit and turn on us. I don't see a middle ground here. It's up to us to be proactive in giving our support behind their transition, but I fear we're not doing enough right now.

When places like Kuwait and Bahrain start going down this road, it kind of gets scary, because I've never known of of any major problems in those countries. They just seem to pissed off--which is definetly their right if it is warranted--at things going on. Hopefully they don't direct it towards us

I don't think middle easterners are going to put up with theocracies or authoritarian dictators anymore. Iran is a perfect example, they're sick of their theocracy. Then there's Egypt where christians and muslims basically united together. There's also the possibility they'll have a democracy and still say "fuck you and your shit" to the US and I wouldn't blame them. Their dictators have been supported by the US for decades(with the exception of Iran and Saddam after the 80s). From all I gather of the protests, there hasn't really been any anti-western sentiment.

From what I've read about Bahrain, the majority of the population are shiites(about 70%) who are being ruled by a sunni monarchy. Kuwait is also ruled by a monarchy.

It's the victories in Egypt and Tunisia that have inspired the other countries. Remember, these are all authoritarian regimes that people are revolting against. Hell I'm surprised there haven't been mass protests in Afghanistan yet, it's considered ever more authoritarian than Egypt and Tunisia according to the democracy index.

And for anyone curious, look up Operation Ajax.

Formalhaut
02-21-2011, 03:13 PM
All Im saying, this might not be the rose garden people think it could be. and theres a reason for there being no riots in Ghan right now, for instance, the WAR. Ive been there, and ANY sort of activity that could be classified as something of the sort was quickly quelled by us or them. its almost happened, though with the state that place is in now, they kinda have more important things to worry about.

Yui
02-21-2011, 04:01 PM
Amusing you'd say that in a thread where only Canadians replied yet ;)

Hey, I was going to point that out! XD

What I have noticed from my Canadian contacts is that they are, by default, much more generally informed of world events and are able to speak about it much more casually, so maybe we were all just waiting for them to start the ball rolling on this topic..?
Excellent idea for a thread, though, guys. ^_-

DireKitty
02-21-2011, 04:04 PM
I don't think anyones suggesting that this is all rainbows and butterflies. I think people are just happy that these populations have stopped allowing themselves to be repressed and are fighting for change. They want to choose who leads their countries, and I think they should have that right. For better or worse - and these elections should be fair and balanced - without the stain of corruption. And in X number of years they should have the option of electing a new leader if they felt the one they chose acted in a manner not befitting of a leader. Will it be easy? Hell no. Will it be hard? Hell yes. But Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will these countries be rebuilt.

Edit: BLUSH! The All-Seeing Eye responded to my little post. Tea? Coffee?

Aearon
02-21-2011, 04:22 PM
...
I think people are just happy that these populations have stopped allowing themselves to be repressed and are fighting for change.
...*Nods.* Being repressed is never good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhXnZUCAu8c&feature=fvst @3:01

I'm happy to see people striving for better lives. Whether that struggle ends up in Democracy or another system doesn't matter to me. If the people are happy and treated well, the system used is irrelevant.

I'd like if we all set aside our differences and no longer referred to ourselves as "Americans", "Germans", "Egyptians", etc. and just become citizens/people of Earth completely united. Of course, that will never happen while I'm alive. There's far too much hate in the world as it is now. But, I do think it would be nice. =)

DireKitty
02-21-2011, 04:28 PM
*Nods.* Being repressed is never good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhXnZUCAu8c&feature=fvst @3:01

I'm happy to see people striving for better lives. Whether that struggle ends up in Democracy or another system doesn't matter to me. If the people are happy and treated well, the system used is irrelevant.

I'd like if we all set aside our differences and no longer referred to ourselves as "Americans", "Germans", "Egyptians", etc. and just become citizens/people of Earth completely united. Of course, that will never happen while I'm alive. There's far too much hate in the world as it is now. But, I do think it would be nice. =)

Monty Python is pure brilliance.

Chipface
02-21-2011, 04:28 PM
I completely agree with what you're saying there. I see borders as nothing but imaginary lines that divide humanity. It makes nationalism seem really silly to me.

rubyspitfire
02-21-2011, 04:31 PM
i'm honestly kind of scared by it. i don't approve of the way the common people have been repressed, but at the same time their method of government has more or less worked for a very long time. change is never easy and i'm wondering how all of this is going to affect the rest of the world, especially in regards to (insert "typical american paranoia") terrorism and religious extremism (/paranoia). it's interesting for sure, but also a little scary

Aearon
02-21-2011, 04:35 PM
I completely agree with what you're saying there. I see borders as nothing but imaginary lines that divide humanity. It makes nationalism seem really silly to me.Mmhmm. It really doesn't make sense to me why people continue to fight and hate about the same things they have for years. Surely, a compromise can eventually be reached to benefit everyone.

*Nods.* Change can often be scary. But, without change no progress can be made. =)

Chipface
02-21-2011, 04:38 PM
Of course these governments have worked, for them. If it worked for the people, there wouldn't be these uprisings. This whole problem with terrorism is a result of the repression and of western meddling. Just like we don't want christian fundamentalists in power here in the west, people in the middle east don't want islamic fundamentalists in charge there. Letting the people in the middle east shape their own destiny will decrease the (exaggerated) risk of terrorism.

DireKitty
02-21-2011, 04:42 PM
I think education is very important too. When people want to stay in power, an easy way to do it is to repress the people by limiting the amount of information they have access too. The internet has slowly rotted away at the walls these countries have set up, despite their best efforts.

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 04:46 PM
Nationalism in the middle east amuses me, since the lines were drawn by the French and British (also the Russian's but they backed out) around the time of WW1. (I forget what that thing was called but there is a document to back what I am saying.) Jordan never existed till the Brit's said 'here this is yours' to the first monarchy of the kingdom.

lol I don't believe in the idealistic peace.... People are idiots and issues and problems will never go away.

The next big issue I see popping up is Israel and Jordan, they are running out of water and nothing much is happening to fix it.

Edit: Education is kind of the big problem in Egypt, to many educated people and no jobs....(The main reason for the rioting and the govenment doing to little to help said problem)

Kildread
02-21-2011, 04:56 PM
I completely agree with what you're saying there. I see borders as nothing but imaginary lines that divide humanity. It makes nationalism seem really silly to me.

I agree to that too -- around the world we're all pretty similar in working/eating/sleeping along the week trying to enjoy what we can out of the time life has given us :)

repress the people by limiting the amount of information they have access too. The internet has slowly rotted away at the walls these countries have set up, despite their best efforts.

This --- it likely had a huge impact on those movements that information from the outside was now accessible to people who had limited access to it before. With the knowledge that things are better elsewhere and that's it's possible to live more comfortably, it had its impact on the movements.

The internet hasn't brought only good to our societies, but the ability to quickly share information accross borders really helps the accessibility of information.

Formalhaut
02-21-2011, 05:36 PM
The next big issue I see popping up is Israel and Jordan, they are running out of water and nothing much is happening to fix it.


Israel is currently in the process of building de-salinization plants, and there are steps being taken. the rain season just hit as well, so the kineret is rising. also....about anarchy...

Anarchy will never work. Anarchy is one of the dumbest ideas ever. It would only work in an extremely small community, and even then it would be extremely difficult. Nothing would get done because there always needs to be a heirarchy. Look at the animal kingdom, any animals that live in a group have a heirarchy. No its not a government per se, but it is a way of controling others with organizational power. There is a leader that in one way or another makes desicions and controls the others. There has to be government in order for anything to get done. Chaos and anarchy can never be successful, and are nothing more than a stupid teenage hormonal cry for attention
there's one unresolvable problem with Anarchy which makes Anarchy itself un-attainable. In lack of government, only two things can happen: The first is universal understanding and cooperation. Like in Star Trek. Yeah, go ahead and hold your breath while you wait for that to happen. The only other thing that could possibly happen in the absence of a governing body, and the only possibility that's actually realistic and thus WOULD be the one that happens, is survival of the fittest. Which is probably exactly what you're thinking... the strong will survive and the weak will die.

But here's the problem with that: No one individual is going to simply survive, by himself, like some kind of lone ranger or elite survivalist living off the land and killing anyone who fucks with him. No, the "strong" will survive by preying upon the weak. They'll join into groups, gangs, who look out for one another. These gangs, in turn, are going to have leaders - likely the strongest among them. It's only natural, after all, otherwise the group won't be able to settle upon important decisions like where to go and what to do to survive. The strongest will force the others to obey him out of fear. Much like the captain of a pirate ship back in the old days. Those too weak to be of value in such a group would either be killed or enslaved and put to work doing the menial tasks the stronger ones don't wish to be bothered with, like cooking and cleaning and various hard labors. Gangs would inevitably fight one another. Weaker gangs would be wiped out. Stronger gangs would grow and expand, until the strongest and largest gang was so widespread that it had everything and everyone under it's thumb, that gang was in control.

And you know what that gang would be then? THE GOVERNMENT. And by the way, the real irony is that most of the kids who are always claiming that they WANT anarchy to happen are the types that would be too weak to be useful and would wind up killed or enslaved, or at the very least wind up being just one of the cronies. Very rarely are they the types of men who would wind up leading gangs because the others feared and respected their strength, skill and tenacity. Meaning their idea of "true freedom". just my .02

The Hag
02-21-2011, 05:57 PM
The internet hasn't brought only good to our societies, but the ability to quickly share information accross borders really helps the accessibility of information.

One way that autocrats stay in power is by controlling all the social institutions (or destroying the ones they can't control) so that there is nowhere independent voices can congregate and gain in strength and numbers. The internet not only creates greater access to outside information - social media also helps people form groups that are outside of direct government control.

@Formalhaut. I agree with you that anarchy is a utopian ideal that would never work in reality, but the argument "Look at how animals behave!" always makes me think, "Erm, can't we set the bar a little higher?" (:

Formalhaut
02-21-2011, 06:24 PM
One way that autocrats stay in power is by controlling all the social institutions (or destroying the ones they can't control) so that there is nowhere independent voices can congregate and gain in strength and numbers. The internet not only creates greater access to outside information - social media also helps people form groups that are outside of direct government control.

@Formalhaut. I agree with you that anarchy is a utopian ideal that would never work in reality, but the argument "Look at how animals behave!" always makes me think, "Erm, can't we set the bar a little higher?" (:


hahah, yea, somtimes...but I was bringing them up simply as an example of how every social species thrives with heirarchies.

DireKitty
02-21-2011, 07:12 PM
I agree, one of the reasons we form groups is because we are not confident enough to act on our own. We feel more confident and happy in groups that share similar ideals to our own. One way the government can exploit people is by isolating people and breaking down communication. The less chance they get to talk openly to each other about their opinions, the less chance they have of creating dissent.

rubyspitfire
02-21-2011, 09:24 PM
i honestly think things like racism and prejudice are part of nature. if you look at the animal kingdom, creatures who are different get picked on by their group to the point of death. it isn't always about the strong surviving and the culling of the weak, sometimes it's just a slight difference. humans are the same and i believe that's why we can't have a utopian world government... and then try throwing religion into the mix. that's a whole 'nother mess altogether

Aearon
02-21-2011, 09:41 PM
i honestly think things like racism and prejudice are part of nature. if you look at the animal kingdom, creatures who are different get picked on by their group to the point of death. it isn't always about the strong surviving and the culling of the weak, sometimes it's just a slight difference. humans are the same and i believe that's why we can't have a utopian world government... and then try throwing religion into the mix. that's a whole 'nother mess altogetherUntil the aliens attack us. >.> Then we're screwed. ;.;

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 09:48 PM
I was actually referring to the Jordan River, for Jordan...Israel has ways to get water. Why did you think I was only thinking about Israel?
Do you want the Jordanians to die of lack of water? On that note: keep in mind that is ONLY for Isreali's what about the millions of Palestine people who won't have access to water ether. They have little money and have to pay for water. After all the things that has happened to them are you going to kill them off to? Not that it hasn't happend before (Nakba, anyone?)

rubyspitfire
02-21-2011, 09:48 PM
Until the aliens attack us. >.> Then we're screwed. ;.;oh no, that's when people finally put all their differences aside (for 2 seconds) and actually come together for the betterment of the human race. as soon as the threat is gone, back to business of killing each other off as usual :P

sam vimes
02-21-2011, 09:54 PM
oh no, that's when people finally put all their differences aside (for 2 seconds) and actually come together for the betterment of the human race. as soon as the threat is gone, back to business of killing each other off as usual :P

I wouldn't worry about aliens. The robots will have taken over long before aliens try to contact planet Earth.

As for the wave of protests sweeping the Middle East, I'm hoping for the best and expecting less than that.

Aearon
02-21-2011, 09:58 PM
oh no, that's when people finally put all their differences aside (for 2 seconds) and actually come together for the betterment of the human race. as soon as the threat is gone, back to business of killing each other off as usual :PAwww... Shucks. Well, maybe we'll learn our lesson from the aliens? >.>
I wouldn't worry about aliens. The robots will have taken over long before aliens try to contact planet Earth.

As for the wave of protests sweeping the Middle East, I'm hoping for the best and expecting less than that.That's what the aliens WANT you to think!

rubyspitfire
02-21-2011, 10:07 PM
That's what the aliens WANT you to think!

i bet the aliens are the ones behind the robot uprising to begin with

Aearon
02-21-2011, 10:09 PM
i bet the aliens are the ones behind the robot uprising to begin with:O You might be right! Maybe they're alien robots!

Formalhaut
02-21-2011, 10:15 PM
http://www.seemslegit.com/_images/3b71e8ba083cc8766479d51313128546/565%20-%20guns%20military%20tyranids%20weapons.jpgSpehs Bees. resistance is futile~!

Archangelz
02-21-2011, 10:21 PM
http://www.seemslegit.com/_images/3b71e8ba083cc8766479d51313128546/565%20-%20guns%20military%20tyranids%20weapons.jpgSpehs Bees. resistance is futile~!

Oh please! Everyone knows you don't shoot such things with guns. You use THIS

http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/01285409000_20100329160321048?hei=600&wid=600&op_sharpen=1

Formalhaut
02-21-2011, 10:35 PM
I was actually referring to the Jordan River, for Jordan...Israel has ways to get water. Why did you think I was only thinking about Israel?
Do you want the Jordanians to die of lack of water? On that note: keep in mind that is ONLY for Isreali's what about the millions of Palestine people who won't have access to water ether. They have little money and have to pay for water. After all the things that has happened to them are you going to kill them off to? Not that it hasn't happend before (Nakba, anyone?)

first off. I am a Israeli, born and raised there for 15 years.
second, the jordan river borders jordan AS WELL as Israel, there are ways for them to get water, Israel certainly doesnt take all of it.
Third, you bring nakba into this? Ok. fine. you want Israel back? come and fight for it. and Im not talking about Terrorism. I mean, get an army together, declare war on Israel, defeat the IDF and TAKE IT BACK. we won it, fair and square. on top of that, you dont rate to hate. when katusha rockets fall into YOUR living room, when people blow up YOUR busses and YOUR malls, when people throw rocks and desecrate YOUR holy places, , THEN talk to me about how my people dont care. And about us trying to make diplomacy? SURE. SUUUUUURE. If your next door neighbor shot your kid, lit your house on fire and then raped your wife, would you still wanna talk? If youve never lived in the world us Israelis and palestinians come from, keep your biased comments to yourself. Come live in our world for a while. Until then, youre just a know nothing ignorant berk who only knows what they know because of the media. Why not do your own thinking for a change

One thing I will point out is that while the Israelis handle the Palestinian issue poorly, the Palestinians are hardly innocent for the most part. When you have television shows encouraging children to become suicide bombers and become martyrs, there is something seriously fucked-up in your way of thinking.

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 10:46 PM
first off. I am a Israeli, born and raised there for 15 years.
second, the jordan river borders jordan AS WELL as Israel, there are ways for them to get water, Israel certainly doesnt take all of it.
Third, you bring nakba into this? Ok. fine. you want Israel back? come and fight for it. and Im not talking about Terrorism. I mean, get an army together, declare war on Israel, defeat the IDF and TAKE IT BACK. we won it, fair and square. on top of that, you dont rate to hate. when katusha rockets fall into YOUR living room, when people blow up YOUR busses and YOUR malls, when people throw rocks and desecrate YOUR holy places, , THEN talk to me about how my people dont care. And about us trying to make diplomacy? SURE. SUUUUUURE. If your next door neighbor shot your kid, lit your house on fire and then raped your wife, would you still wanna talk? If youve never lived in the world us Israelis and palestinians come from, keep your biased comments to yourself. Come live in our world for a while. Until then, youre just a know nothing ignorant berk who only knows what they know because of the media. Why not do your own thinking for a change

One thing I will point out is that while the Israelis handle the Palestinian issue poorly, the Palestinians are hardly innocent for the most part. When you have television shows encouraging children to become suicide bombers and become martyrs, there is something seriously fucked-up in your way of thinking.

You do realize your type of thinking is what the terrorist are telling people 'these big bad people' to become Martyrs correct? Quite honestly I do not care for Israel, but even that do desn't give them the right to treat people in such a way. Also for your information I am taking a Damn Middle Eastern Politics class from one of the leading experts from America, I do know some what is going on. I can't help but feel sorry for people who are treated as second class citizens in what is their homeland as well.

Seriously you pissed me off for not thinking of nothing about your own country. What happens in the middle east is a global problem since the oil is there. ((I am a minority with little say in politics anyway. As I said earlier AIPAC is the leading lobby in America, Isreal can take care of itself. It's the other countries I'm trying to say will have a problem. I only bring up Nakba because I was trying to make a point that Israel is not a angel, which is leading ideal about the middle east. To quote my other teacher 'why not bomb everyone execpt Isreal?)

Aearon
02-21-2011, 10:56 PM
*Smiles.* Now, now... Can't we all just get along!?
Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-bA9FYB8HY

Formalhaut
02-21-2011, 10:58 PM
cause college teaches you everything about the real world :3

rubyspitfire
02-21-2011, 10:59 PM
here we go again, people can't learn from other threads......... *waits for inevitable locking*

Aearon
02-21-2011, 11:01 PM
Would people prefer the actual artist instead of Jackie and Chris?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMa10pGpANc&feature=fvst

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 11:05 PM
Not really lol but I can say at least I'm trying to learn about the middle east. My teacher is the only one this side that teaches it so yeah...

I was thinking of going to school over there to learn more about it, but my parents won't let me now with all the chaos....that and my non-religion is a problem...they don't want me to go to school there.... sadness....

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 11:06 PM
Sorry, please don't lock this thread! T_T

((though you must have expected something like this to appear...sorry about the double post)))

Aearon
02-21-2011, 11:06 PM
Not really lol but I can say at least I'm trying to learn about the middle east. My teacher is the only one this side that teaches it so yeah...

I was thinking of going to school over there to learn more about it, but my parents won't let me now with all the chaos....that and my non-religion is a problem...they don't want me to go to school there.... sadness....O.oa Are you still a minor? If not, I don't see the problem.

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 11:09 PM
O.oa Are you still a minor? If not, I don't see the problem.

I'm 19. I do like to have their approval when I do things though, mainly so I don't have to come home to them kicking me out of the house.... I'd be worldly but homeless T_T

Aearon
02-21-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm 19. I do like to have their approval when I do things though, mainly so I don't have to come home to them kicking me out of the house.... I'd be worldly but homeless T_TPeople survive on their own all the time from a much younger age. But, if you would like to rely on your parents and do things their way, that's your choice. =)

Ineedaname9
02-21-2011, 11:31 PM
People survive on their own all the time from a much younger age. But, if you would like to rely on your parents and do things their way, that's your choice. =)

We are so totally off topic. But thanks, many people don't understand that it is my own choice to give up a dream to just stay in the 'norm' as they said...and you know even less about me than they do lol

So...how about what's happening in Libya?

Angathol
02-22-2011, 07:34 AM
Regarding Libya: a collection of Twitter updates I saw posted on my Facebook.

http://i52.tinypic.com/346t5c6.jpg

Scary stuff.

DireKitty
02-22-2011, 07:47 AM
Yeah, the tide in Libya is bright red. The people have taken over the 2nd largest city and are starting to gather arms. It's going to be a big fight as those in power do not want to give it up, and are willing to kill the people they are sworn to protect to keep it.

Apsara
02-22-2011, 08:35 AM
A lot of the 'experts' are carefully freaking out over Libya. Of course, most of it seems to be over the oil prices skyrocketing instead of the human suffering but that's business for ya. Isn't Saudi Arabia the major oil producer though...

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133941172/Gaddafis-Rule-Shaken-By-Anti-Government-Protests

"Protesters want an end to his more than 41-year rule, during which the leader managed to provide a measure of economic stability through the nation's oil wealth..." from Voice of America News.com (http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Gadhafi-Loses-Support-of-Libyan-Officials-Denies-Fleeing-116643889.html)

Heh, I took that out of context. So I'll tack this one up: "Libya's oil wealth not trickling down" headline from BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12523038)

The Hag
02-22-2011, 08:58 AM
Non-violent political defiance is a powerful tool, but I think that ultimately its success comes down to whether or not the military can stomach killing their own people. In Egypt they stood with the protesters. In Libya ..... though there are some reports of defections and pilots flying to Malta rather than follow orders to bomb the crowds. I could speculate on the difference between the two armies based on what I've read but I'm no expert - not having had half a college course on the history of the middle east! XD

Qaddafi's been a very scary guy for a very long time. In the last decade though, he managed to convince people (at least, people outside Libya) that he was no longer a thug* and a terrorist. Now the US and the EU are discovering that - eh, maybe he didn't change so much after all.

*edit - or at least convince us that he was a thug who was not trying to build nuclear weapons and therefore a thug we could live with. :/

Aearon
02-22-2011, 09:14 AM
Yeah... When your leader starts hiring anyone who will do the job... And the job is killing protesters... You know you're gonna have problems.

DireKitty
02-22-2011, 09:31 AM
Yeah... When your leader starts hiring anyone who will do the job... And the job is killing protesters... You know you're gonna have problems.

Maybe they will unionize and demand higher pay, days off, complain that the work is too stressful etc.

... one can hope, can't they?

Chipface
02-22-2011, 10:30 AM
Non-violent political defiance is a powerful tool, but I think that ultimately its success comes down to whether or not the military can stomach killing their own people. In Egypt they stood with the protesters. In Libya ..... though there are some reports of defections and pilots flying to Malta rather than follow orders to bomb the crowds. I could speculate on the difference between the two armies based on what I've read but I'm no expert - not having had half a college course on the history of the middle east! XD

Qaddafi's been a very scary guy for a very long time. In the last decade though, he managed to convince people (at least, people outside Libya) that he was no longer a thug* and a terrorist. Now the US and the EU are discovering that - eh, maybe he didn't change so much after all.

*edit - or at least convince us that he was a thug who was not trying to build nuclear weapons and therefore a thug we could live with. :/

Speaking of soldiers refusing to kill people. Here's an interesting video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhIbR9mngyU) of what (apparently) happened to some Libyan soldiers who refused to do such a thing. Looks like violent revolution is unfortunately inevitable. I'm glad the people are not putting up with being brutalized though.

DireKitty
02-22-2011, 06:14 PM
"Four Americans hijacked by Somali pirates off the coast of Oman have been killed by their captors, US defence officials say.

The US military said its forces trailing the vessel had responded to gunfire heard aboard but found all the captives shot when they arrived.

The yacht S/V Quest, hijacked on Friday, was owned and sailed by Scott and Jean Adam of California.

Also killed were two US passengers, Phyllis Macay and Bob Riggle"

...more @ BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12541297).

Thoughts? I personally don't think anyone who is truly responsible/cautious would be caught in those waters. It ends up costing governments a lot of money to try and save them, and in some cases, such as this one, it doesn't happen.

I do think, that if this is becoming such an issue, that perhaps force should be considered against the country as it is violating international law.

Kildread
02-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Pirates? In this day and age? I thought swashbuckling was a thing of the past now that BitTorrent exists, costs much less than a frigate does.

Inappropriate humor aside --- I'm not sure I would consider the entire country to blame for this. Criminal elements exist the world over and I doubt it would be possible to police waters around the globe.

It's one of those cases where someone with a private vessel needs to make smart travel decisions too, regardless of the sadness of the events that transpired right now --- this loss needs to remind everyone sailing around there is a bad idea.

nannyogg
02-22-2011, 06:24 PM
I don't know that force would do much in Somalia; there's still so much internal conflict, who would the force be put on?

DireKitty
02-22-2011, 07:11 PM
Pirates? In this day and age? I thought swashbuckling was a thing of the past now that BitTorrent exists, costs much less than a frigate does.

Inappropriate humor aside --- I'm not sure I would consider the entire country to blame for this. Criminal elements exist the world over and I doubt it would be possible to police waters around the globe.

It's one of those cases where someone with a private vessel needs to make smart travel decisions too, regardless of the sadness of the events that transpired right now --- this loss needs to remind everyone sailing around there is a bad idea.

Well the government has been completely ineffectual at stopping these pirates, and piracy is growing in the country.

Rinoa07
02-23-2011, 12:31 PM
It should be an either/ or policy. Either they let tourists take the full brunt of their stupidity, no chance for help, no monitoring the situation, what ever happens to the tourists in pirate infested waters happens. After all, these are Somalian Waters, not U.S. It is completely outside the jurisdiction.

Or, they step up and actually do something when US citizens become involved in a hostile situation like the one that just ended. The results could still end the same, but at least something would be done to at least try to aid those in peril.

Of course, the US government could have been being diplomatic when it said it was monitoring the situation, and what it really meant is that it took the former stance, as oppose to the latter.

Shuko
02-23-2011, 01:05 PM
The US government has made it clear countless times before that it does not negotiate with fanatic groups that kidnap Americans and demand ransom or prisoner trades. That's not to say that such negotiations DON'T go on... they do. It's just that they claim that they don't because if certain groups thought that they could get away with it, they'd do it far more often. The bottom line is this: if you are a US citizen, and you travel to a place where you KNOW that there are hostiles who have a beef with the United States, then you're taking a risk that you shouldn't be taking unless you're willing to accept the consequences. :( I know it doesn't do much for the unfortunate family members who are left hoping that their loved ones come home, but they simply can't expect Uncle Sam to go in and rescue them from their own mistakes.

In a strange way, however, I feel bad for the Somalis too. The pirates are just a very small fraction of their population, and they don't do a lot of good for their own country, either. Somalia has so many in-house issues that they can't deal with already; they can't keep the piracy in check too.

Chipface
02-23-2011, 01:14 PM
Here's an interesting article I read about pirates awhile ago:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html

Eau de Decus
02-23-2011, 03:56 PM
I do think, that if this is becoming such an issue, that perhaps force should be considered against the country as it is violating international law. We tried force against Somalia back in the 90s. It went swimmingly. I don't think second round will do much of anything.

Kildread
02-23-2011, 05:06 PM
Here's an interesting article I read about pirates awhile ago:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html

That's an interesting read, if all those accounts are true, it puts things in perspective.

Eurobeat King
02-23-2011, 06:07 PM
I read the story a couple of days ago, and while it's sad, I agree with what someone posted (sfgate.com or another site) that the Americans should've carried firearms on their vessel to defend themselves. Whether or not they had permits, it would've been easier to say in-court "yes, I killed pirates but I was simply defending myself" and they would've been alive. They instead had a yacht full of Bibles going against guys armed with AK-47's.

I think they should've watched Rambo (2008) and gotten a clue about going into dangerous territory unarmed..

Missionary Leader: "We're trying to change peoples' lives."
Rambo: "Are you bringing any weapons?"
Missionary Leader: "Of course not."
Rambo: "You're not changing anything."

penny_dreadful
02-23-2011, 06:26 PM
I'm a little uncomfortable with the line of thinking that says people going into dangerous areas unarmed are asking for trouble. It sounds a lot like telling victims of violent crimes "you should have known better, and therefore you deserve what you got." That's a slippery slope. Whether the Americans had appropriate defenses or not, whether that would have saved their lives or not, the point is-- you don't kill people. Especially if they can't defend themselves.

The HuffPo article definitely has some important points, and I don't think we should paint all Somali pirates as wicked villains. Have you SEEN Somalia lately? It's probably a last resort for desperate people-- or people taking back power in any way they can, even though that doesn't always justify their actions.

In any case, it's a complex issue. Those people shouldn't have been murdered, but it's easy to say "tsk tsk, bad Somali pirates" from the comfort of our keyboards and forget that these people come from a place where oppression and suffering are part of everyday life.

sam vimes
02-23-2011, 06:27 PM
I think they should've watched Rambo (2008) and gotten a clue about going into dangerous territory unarmed..

Missionary Leader: "We're trying to change peoples' lives."
Rambo: "Are you bringing any weapons?"
Missionary Leader: "Of course not."
Rambo: "You're not changing anything."

Remind me to buy you a drink next time we run into each other.

Yukikittie
02-23-2011, 08:08 PM
I think it's heartbreaking and I feel bad for the families. But those people in my opinion were dumb to do such a thing. Somalia is pretty dangerous, shipping ships usually don't travel as close to the coast as they did. So, very poor judgment on their part.

Formalhaut
02-23-2011, 08:26 PM
I have no sympathy for them, and to reply to what penny said, its never the victims fault, yes...but going UNARMED into hostile territory is just ASKING for trouble. this isnt the first time these kinds of things have happened, people REALLY should know better by now. in the age we live in, Ignorance is hardly and excuse.

Kildread
02-23-2011, 08:38 PM
I'm not sure the fact they were armed or not really change the situation all that much.

sweetnsassy
02-23-2011, 08:50 PM
I'm with Formalhut on this one. The pirates have been a problem for years, and yet these people still decided to go. I feel bad for the families, but didn't anyone stop at some point and say, "Hey, maybe sailing around this area is a bad idea"?

Formalhaut
02-24-2011, 01:58 AM
I'm not sure the fact they were armed or not really change the situation all that much.

Im sorry, but if somali pirates tried boarding MY vessel? Id shoot to kill. Better them than me.

Chipface
02-24-2011, 07:10 AM
I'm not sure the fact they were armed or not really change the situation all that much.

I think it might scare them off or at least even the odds.

penny_dreadful
02-24-2011, 08:14 AM
Wow, guys. Remind me never to get attacked by pirates when y'all are around.

Yes, there are ways to keep yourself safe, and you can avoid a lot of danger by avoiding areas where danger is known to lurk. If they had been my family members, though, I don't think I'd be sitting around saying "Yeah, it's sad and all, but they should've known better so I guess that's that. I can't feel too bad about it because they were really stupid."

Kildread
02-24-2011, 08:24 AM
I think it might scare them off or at least even the odds.

Im sorry, but if somali pirates tried boarding MY vessel? Id shoot to kill. Better them than me.

In the end, I'm not sure headlines like :

"Vicious shootout happens off the coast of Somalia, americans sailing in domestic waters fight off pirates and suffer injuries"

....would be any better, though it seems like it would be more accepted for some reason.

Violence is violence. Protecting yourself is one thing, it doesn't change the end result that it causes (death) no matter the entitlement one feels about it.

I figure some of it is due to a cultural difference and how obsessed someone is about 'Bearing arms'. What is being discussed is the end result --- people got held hostage off the coast of Somalia and ended up being shot.

Nobody can say them having weapons would have made a damned difference in the end. Thought it's easy to say that being armed suddenly makes you less prone to such tragedy.

DireKitty
02-24-2011, 10:20 AM
"A 20-year-old Saudi national living in Texas is being held by US police on charges of trying to make a homemade bomb and researching targets.

Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari, was arrested on Wednesday night and charged with attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.

He is accused of eyeing targets including the Dallas home of former president George W Bush."

more @ BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12571648)

I have to say, i'm a bit "wtf" over this... as I mean... really now, people are still trying this sort of thing? Good on the supplier for following due diligence though.

DireKitty
02-24-2011, 10:26 AM
Gaddafi is now saying (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12570279) it's all Bin Ladins fault... and that he's encouraging young people to get stoned and pick up arms... another big "wtf" moment today. That being said, I don't think people will listen to his words (well maybe for a laugh...).

DireKitty
02-24-2011, 10:32 AM
Considering that Libya produces 2% of the worlds crude... it really doesn't stand that because
of unrest there, oil would climb so high. So now the word is that BECAUSE Libya is full of unrest it is likely to spread to other oil producing nations, because it's kinda like chicken pox and all those oil producing places will catch it.

Either way, they are always looking for an excuse (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12563063) to raise prices. On top of that, gas prices typically start to go up in march/april as the driving season starts... so the prices this year will be even higher then what we saw in the past. :miffed:

Chipface
02-24-2011, 10:33 AM
He's completely lost it. He's scared shitless. That and if I were to get stoned, only thing I'd wanna pick up is some junk food.

sam vimes
02-24-2011, 10:40 AM
Hell, I'm just glad they caught him.

Seems to me that these homegrown terrorists or sleeper cells or whatever you want to call them are barking up the wrong tree. Off the top of my head I can't think of one successful instance of a Muslim terrorist pulling off an attack, save for the Fort Hood massacre.

sam vimes
02-24-2011, 10:45 AM
Not to nitpick, but why don't we start a Currents Events superthread instead of making a new thread about every piece of news that comes out of the Middle East?

Eau de Decus
02-24-2011, 11:07 AM
Thank god for driving a gas efficient car. I remember back when they topped just short of $4.00/g and it still wasn't that bad.

KyuubiSharingan
02-24-2011, 11:10 AM
It's rumored to actually get up to $4 sometime soon then up to $5 in the summer.

DireKitty
02-24-2011, 11:50 AM
Not to nitpick, but why don't we start a Currents Events superthread instead of making a new thread about every piece of news that comes out of the Middle East?

I think it would get all muddled up with no clear discussion route, and then the forum would sit rather stagnant. Plus, this isn't really so much of a middle east news note, because it's just an excuse to raise oil futures. It's more of a money grab and an annoyance to us. Anything of relevance to the middle east crisis can be posted in that thread, but this is about oil prices.

On the gas price note: I think it will impact travel plans for a lot of people. I was considering travelling to Quebec, which is a 10 hour drive, if not more.... but not with those kinda gas prices. Ouch!

DireKitty
02-24-2011, 11:51 AM
It's an odd thing that seems to be focused on the US and England mainly, although a few other countries have been targeted as well too. I know there was a cell crushed just outside of Toronto, all born in Canada.

Chipface
02-24-2011, 12:27 PM
Hell, I'm just glad they caught him.

Seems to me that these homegrown terrorists or sleeper cells or whatever you want to call them are barking up the wrong tree. Off the top of my head I can't think of one successful instance of a Muslim terrorist pulling off an attack, save for the Fort Hood massacre.

WTC in 93 would be one.

penny_dreadful
02-24-2011, 01:04 PM
Off the top of my head I can't think of one successful instance of a Muslim terrorist pulling off an attack, save for the Fort Hood massacre.

Uh, you're not secretly a Truther, are you?

sam vimes
02-24-2011, 01:15 PM
Just to clarify, I meant that they haven't pulled off an attack on U.S. soil since 9/11/01.

Sorry for any confusion.

rubyspitfire
02-24-2011, 01:25 PM
Speaking of soldiers refusing to kill people. Here's an interesting video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhIbR9mngyU) of what (apparently) happened to some Libyan soldiers who refused to do such a thing. Looks like violent revolution is unfortunately inevitable. I'm glad the people are not putting up with being brutalized though.

not to mention their entire families probably suffered the same

rubyspitfire
02-24-2011, 01:27 PM
not looking forward to this... it already costs $40 to fill my tank

penny_dreadful
02-24-2011, 01:31 PM
not looking forward to this... it already costs $40 to fill my tank

$50 for me, and I drive a Kia sedan.

rubyspitfire
02-24-2011, 01:40 PM
$50 for me, and I drive a Kia sedan.

mine might be that much, i haven't been able to completely fill the tank for months. i keep doing $20 at a time, it ends up being a little less than half a tank. i was thinking about filling it today, but i'm just not going to have enough after my insurance bill and everything else i need to do

DireKitty
02-24-2011, 03:19 PM
Mines just over 40 now, and I drive a Toyota Echo. It's great on gas mind you, but it's an extra 5 dollars a tank in only a month or so... soon it will be an extra 10+

penny_dreadful
02-24-2011, 03:25 PM
I also live in one of those areas where gas prices are almost always higher than the rest of the country; even ten more cents on the gallon makes a big difference when you're filling up a whole tank. Which I usually wind up doing, because I'm lazy.

kiratsukai
02-24-2011, 04:45 PM
Not to nitpick, but why don't we start a Currents Events superthread instead of making a new thread about every piece of news that comes out of the Middle East?

I have to agree.
At least... if you're going to continue as many of them as you are at the rate you're currently posting.

My first thought at looking at this particular subsection this morning was "Did someone just copy yahoo news headlines to get access to the marketplace?!"

An occaisional relevant story I understand... but 4 random bad headlines a day is going to get spammy (and depressing) quick.

Jia Jem
02-24-2011, 05:02 PM
I combined the threads... which makes reading through the first few pages... uh... kind of confusing. Maybe fun? I don't know. I'm not going to even try reading this from the beginning. :B Have fun! (Past page 7, that is!)

The Hag
02-24-2011, 05:03 PM
O.k. That was weird....I posting in the middle of the merge! XD


Seems to me that these homegrown terrorists or sleeper cells or whatever you want to call them are barking up the wrong tree. Off the top of my head I can't think of one successful instance of a Muslim terrorist pulling off an attack, save for the Fort Hood massacre.

It's an odd thing that seems to be focused on the US and England mainly, although a few other countries have been targeted as well too.

Bali, Spain, Mumbai. Who knows how many others that were stopped that we never heard about. Islamic extremism isn't monolithic. But I get SV's point - these sort of one-off guys - Times Square, the underwear bomber, Portland - seem pretty inept. My guess is that they aren't getting many resources from anywhere else. If they get caught - no great loss to any larger terror organization. But they'll probably take credit if one manages to succeed.......hopefully that won't happen.

Also, with so many US targets already in Iraq and Afghanistan, they don't have to come over here to kill Americans. Not trying to be all Code Pink or anything - just stating facts.

And, erm....I drive a Prius?

penny_dreadful
02-24-2011, 07:15 PM
And, erm....I drive a Prius?

http://files.sharenator.com/south_park_smug_313_Whoa_Mass_Effect_Girl-s300x242-98351-535.gif

You know you're going to get that as long as we're speaking to each other, right?

Kildread
02-24-2011, 07:24 PM
The order of posts is all matters of wierd now, makes for a zany read XD

The Hag
02-24-2011, 07:54 PM
http://files.sharenator.com/south_park_smug_313_Whoa_Mass_Effect_Girl-s300x242-98351-535.gif

You know you're going to get that as long as we're speaking to each other, right?

And it will never fail to make me laugh!

nannyogg
02-24-2011, 08:08 PM
$50 for me, and I drive a Kia sedan.

Yowch, either your gas is a whole lot higher there, or your Kia sedan has a much bigger gas tank than mine!!! I recently bought a 2002 Kia Rio off a friend of mine for dirt cheap to do my commuting (60 mile round trip 2 days per week) since it gets so much better mileage than the SUV I have to drive when I have all my kids. It takes about $60 to fill up the Expedition right now, about $25 to fill the Kia. And both tanks get me about the same number of miles.

Kildread
02-24-2011, 08:13 PM
I've driven a Subaru Legacy, Honda Civic (Company cars), Mazda 3, Mazda 6 (Rental cars) as well as a Dodge Ram.

Tanks cost between 40 to 60$ to fill (CDN), there didn't appear to be much difference between any of the cars overall. The latest one (Mazda 6) cost me 60$ and it was at 1/4 a tank. The Mazda 6 got me around 550 kilometers for 3/4 of a tank.

Cadmium Polyphony
02-24-2011, 10:11 PM
I think the rising gas prices is a good thing.

A very good thing.

Provided oil-dependent countries can avoid an invasion of an oil rich country to meet demand, of course.

nannyogg
02-24-2011, 10:14 PM
I think the rising gas prices is a good thing.

A very good thing.

Provided oil-dependent countries can avoid an invasion of an oil rich country to meet demand, of course.

I think it will be a good thing when it gets to the point that they actually start developing and affordably disseminating alternatives.

Whatever happened with the cars that run on hydrogen that they were supposedly pilot testing in southern CA a few years back?

Cadmium Polyphony
02-24-2011, 10:19 PM
I think it will be a good thing when it gets to the point that they actually start developing and affordably disseminating alternatives.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Unaffordable fuel will force people to adopt more appropriate means of transportation.

And it's about f*cking time. I just hope this is really it. The gas price scares have been going on as far as I know since the 70s, with the markets conveniently able to bring prices down to keep pushing their drug to the addicted country; I hope this isnt just another one of those addict-affirmation ploys.

DireKitty
02-25-2011, 08:14 AM
I have long since said Canada should pack it's bags and keep it's oil to itself. =P

But really, if we haven't hit peak oil, we are damn well near it.... as for alternatives, we haven't found a good one yet - including hydrogen... which really doesn't make sense.

For hydrogen... well, it's an energy carrier, not a source. We make hydrogen, it's not mined out of the ground or anything. The cheapest way to make it now is through steam reformation, which makes it from natural gas. Why not just burn the natural gas? Perhaps in the future we will make a big break-through which will cause hydrogen to give us a net energy boost, but right now we are just burning one fossil fuel source to make it...

...we use a lot of gas. Gas... is just way too efficient, it's transportable, it's just too good for transportation. It provides a lot of power for such a small amount. Think on how far you car can go on a tank of gas. It's burned up... right there in your cars engine. The issue with electric is that A) you need to have an original source of engery... which right now are mainly coal plants and the like.

I can see solar panels on people's homes for home electricity (which could work in quite a few places, just depends on how much sun you get) but... I think when things change the whole way we do things will change. Say goodbye to transports, hello to trains (yay).

In any case, I think the next few months will be interesting as it seems by the end of 2011 the spare supply margin of OPEC will be eaten up... and so demand will begin to outstrip supply.

rubyspitfire
02-25-2011, 10:16 PM
so i did go ahead an fill my tank... $45 for 14 gallons. at least i can run a good three weeks on that, if not the whole month. yay for not going anywhere

sam vimes
02-28-2011, 03:36 PM
Despite myself, I'm digging Charlie Sheen's antics as of late. I'm so happy and grateful that he brought down Two & a Half Men.

Yukikittie
02-28-2011, 07:05 PM
I just learned of the New Zealand earthquake.
God I'm slow. D:

vampricyoda
02-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Gas prices are kinda scary. I bought a Smart Car about 6 months ago to help deal with it. Though I sorta wish I coulda got a Hybrid I just couldn't find one, at least not at something I could afford.

My real issue with the gas "crisis". Prices keep going up because of changes in the market. Yet the oil companies keep recording a record profit? It doesn't take a genieus to see that doesn't add up.

Also if higher gas prices are the cost of seeing revolautions throughout the Middle East. I'm willing to pay them.

sam vimes
04-04-2011, 02:48 PM
Yeah, this is a really reasonable reaction. Fuck Afghanistan. Let's pull out of it entirely. (http://http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/04/afghan_protests.html)

EDIT: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/04/afghan_protests.html

penny_dreadful
04-04-2011, 03:15 PM
Visitor at Washington's National Gallery attacks Gauguin painting, screaming "This is evil". (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/04/135118111/at-national-gallery-in-washington-visitor-attacks-gauguin-painting)

America.

Lithium Flower
04-04-2011, 03:23 PM
Visitor at Washington's National Gallery attacks Gauguin painting, screaming "This is evil". (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/04/135118111/at-national-gallery-in-washington-visitor-attacks-gauguin-painting)

America.

Tits bless America.

http://www.humorhound.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/salute-the-boob.jpg

Kildread
04-04-2011, 05:03 PM
http://www.humorhound.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/salute-the-boob.jpg

He seems more happy than her.

I wonder why.

(I would be too)

DireKitty
04-04-2011, 05:36 PM
Visitor at Washington's National Gallery attacks Gauguin painting, screaming "This is evil". (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/04/135118111/at-national-gallery-in-washington-visitor-attacks-gauguin-painting)

America.

>.> I bet she doesn't have any mirrors in her house.

penny_dreadful
04-04-2011, 05:56 PM
>.> I bet she doesn't have any mirrors in her house.

Was she upset because there were naked breasts? Was she upset because there were two women standing close to each other but otherwise not acknowledging one another? Was she upset because there were two women standing close to each other but otherwise not acknowledging each other, who also happened to have naked breasts, and therefore must have been lesbians? Was it because she hates Tahitians? Was it because Gauguin fought with van Gogh shortly before the latter cut his ear off? Was it because the woman finds Post-Impressionist art crass and primitive?

The world may never know.

Shana05
04-04-2011, 06:02 PM
On the lighter side, I found the escaped cobra story hilarious. Someone started a Twitter page as the snake, telling her adventures in New York. In the end, she never left the reptile house. My mom said, "You really can't trust snakes. It lied on Twitter."

nannyogg
04-04-2011, 08:02 PM
On the lighter side, I found the escaped cobra story hilarious. Someone started a Twitter page as the snake, telling her adventures in New York. In the end, she never left the reptile house. My mom said, "You really can't trust snakes. It lied on Twitter."

Hee hee hee!

sam vimes
05-14-2011, 07:25 PM
Oh, this is just dandy. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/suicide-bombing-revenge-osama)

penny_dreadful
05-14-2011, 07:35 PM
Oh, this is just dandy. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/13/suicide-bombing-revenge-osama)

And yet, here's what we're talking about (http://www.mediaite.com/print/new-york-post-truly-outdoes-itself-with-osama-bin-wankin-porn-cover/).

The Hag
05-14-2011, 08:06 PM
And yet, here's what we're talking about (http://www.mediaite.com/print/new-york-post-truly-outdoes-itself-with-osama-bin-wankin-porn-cover/).

BREAKING NEWS - MAN WATCHES PORN!*


*I totally copied this from Animated Poison.

Kildread
05-14-2011, 08:12 PM
BREAKING NEWS - MAN WATCHES PORN!*

WORTH THE FRONT PAGE.

DireKitty
05-14-2011, 08:14 PM
....people watch porn?

/shocked

Bisected8
05-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Well I hear he was an internet personality....

The Seventh Sea
05-15-2011, 02:27 AM
Rising gas prices? Oh well, guess less on anime and games. I drive 2.5 hours back and forth every sunday for Kyudo practice. I'm not dropping Kyudo because of gas prices.

The only thing I saw on the news was a child having survived a bomb blast, left blind, so he can't see his crying parents while he struggles to talk. I think this was...Libya?

Ah..Mid-East news...

nannyogg
05-15-2011, 09:03 AM
The only thing I saw on the news was a child having survived a bomb blast, left blind, so he can't see his crying parents while he struggles to talk. I think this was...Libya?

Ah..Mid-East news...

The thing that makes me sad about that is that they sensationalize that child's plight (which is horrible) only because it relates to war- while hundreds and thousands of people go mutilated, starved, tortured, killed, raped, etc... all over the world and the news can't be bothered to notice because it doesn't sell their point of view. So much swept under the rug that needs pulled out and cared about. :(

Scorpion89
05-15-2011, 10:18 AM
Well actually it is a rather big thing considering his and the Taliban's views on the subject and how they follow the Qu' Ran.

Shana05
05-16-2011, 05:57 PM
Oh, thank god. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/16/donald-trump-not-running-president-2012_n_862514.html)

Yui H
05-16-2011, 07:31 PM
I can see solar panels on people's homes for home electricity (which could work in quite a few places, just depends on how much sun you get) but... I think when things change the whole way we do things will change. Say goodbye to transports, hello to trains (yay).



Hmmmm...It's too bad it can never really work this way. Trains will never be the savior. Take a map of a country. ANY country. Developed or one not so developed. Take Canada, or America or Mexico or Russia or China.

Now, ignore all the countrys around it. Now, think trains. You have to go places and trains are the way. Hmm, well I will use the United States because I am very familiar with it. Each state has atleast one "major" city, some more than that. OK, well, the basic routes are very easily established then. Major city to city routes. These routes MUST be capable of supporting BOTH passenger and cargo train systems for simplictiy and redundancy. These major cities will also be the "hubs" like as with major city airports for airlines, where maintenance and parts locations are at. As that these routes are by neccessity, capable of handling BOTH passenger and cargo trains, we have TWO issues. 1.) The tracks either have to handle two distinct train types running on different power systems. 2.) Two sets of track systems operating in close proximity to each other for different classes of locomotives and what they pull. Why do I say this? It is because I work in the sector that manufactures the engine/generators that power locomotives ( along with many other systems ). Passenger trains like "Bullet Trains" recieve power externally. They use overhead cables that supply power to the electric motors onboard their locomotives and do not have their own onboard power. This lowers their overall wieght and allows higher velocity on the track system. It also makes the train itself NOT CAPABLE of heavy load, it's motors are designed for less torque and more speed. Diesel locomotives have a massive diesel engine wich runs a very massive generator ( usually 10,000-12,000 pounds TOTAL wieght of a genset is typically 40,000 pounds ) which inturn drives the locomotive's electrive drive motors. This adds massive wieght to the locomotive and allows it aid in overall pulling power. The motors are specifically designed for torque applications and heavy pull, not speed. They are free of external power and run on their own.

Back to the map. From the main cities, you have the medium sized towns. Which ones do you go to? College towns? Industrial towns? Towns that have neither but have significant agricultural output? Those that have only a combonation of both? In my state, that would mean atleast 6 major routes out of the capitol city alone. Now..for convienience, do we connect as many of those towns to each other to keep from having to backtrack to the main local city:untrust:? If we do...Now we just added atleast 7 more routes instate alone. Then what about smaller communities that may contribute greatly to the base of those larger and medium cities? Where I live, many of the individuals I work with drive 30 or more miles one way to work because they have to not because they want to. We are not talking in a big city like Chicago, or Detroit or Dallas. We are talking through the cornfields of Illinois / Indiana just to get to a medium sized town that happens to have 4 major manufacturing facilities. If we start building track extensions to these smaller communities, not just for people's transportation but then for transportation of goods...Well, now where are we going to get all the raw materials for the tracks, the power line towers, the power supplies for the grid upgrades, the money for manufacturing, support, upgrades and maintenance? I keep watching what WE DO HAVE to keep in "good" condition. We don't have money to keep it up let alone add to what we have:miffed:.....

Trains can only add so much, where they go to, the rest will be delivered by trucks and such from that location as it is today. Far more people live in small towns than in huge cities.

Jetaski
05-16-2011, 09:01 PM
Donald Trump announces he is NOT running for president anymore.

Yui H
05-16-2011, 09:05 PM
Shana05 beat you to it Jetaski;)..Oh well, it's the thought that counts.

sam vimes
05-26-2011, 05:28 PM
You've got be fucking shitting me. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/nyregion/two-new-york-city-police-officers-acquitted-of-rape.html?pagewanted=2&_r=3&smid=tw-nytimes)

Seriously. You have got to be fucking shitting me. This is why rape cases take up half the current event threads: things are just not getting any better. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/dominique-strauss-kahn/8537148/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-moved-to-luxurious-New-York-townhouse.html)

Lithium Flower
05-26-2011, 05:41 PM
You've got be fucking shitting me. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/nyregion/two-new-york-city-police-officers-acquitted-of-rape.html?pagewanted=2&_r=3&smid=tw-nytimes)

Seriously. You have got to be fucking shitting me. This is why rape cases take up half the current event threads: things are just not getting any better. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/dominique-strauss-kahn/8537148/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-moved-to-luxurious-New-York-townhouse.html)


What the hell did I just read.


What.the.hell.did.I.just.read.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jezebel/2010/10/dontwanta.gif


I recall watching a TV special about a teenage girl who had been raped at a party (If I recall properly the boys had slipped something into her drink) and the boys got off without an issue. Why?

Because some people at the party claimed the girl was giving lap dances, dressing suggestively, or flirting with boys and that if she hadn't behaved like that it wouldn't have happened.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2010/01/SIMON-CONFUSED-GIF.gif

zizi994
05-27-2011, 01:58 PM
The same thing happened after the French and American revolutions way back when, so it's not too surprising.

penny_dreadful
05-27-2011, 02:03 PM
The same thing happened after the French and American revolutions way back when, so it's not too surprising.

...Uh, what?

leeleeleelee
05-27-2011, 02:12 PM
The (only) good thing about the NYPD rape case that we can take away is that they were shamefully fired from the police force yesterday and the victim's $57 Million suit against the city is still moving forward. Civil cases need to only prove 51% rather than the 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt that criminal cases require. I know that it doesn't change that these dbags got away with repeatedly raping a woman who could not consent, but it's better than nothing.

Also, there's a huge rally/protest in front of City Hall today from 5PM to 7PM if any NYCers want to attend!

CynicalGraviton
05-27-2011, 05:29 PM
Recently, Ratko Mladic, the man responsible for the biggest genocide in post WW2 Europe was captured. He was responsible for the brutal death of over 8,000 poeple (in the span of two days) and the savage siege of Sarajevo, along with the rape of more than 30,000 young girls and women over the span of a few years. He slaughtered small children in front of their mothers (or had the parents kill their own children), and made a whole country fear for their lives. And yet, I've managed to find people who concider him a hero.

Being from Sarajevo, and having lost family to the Bosnian war (as it seems all bosnian muslims have,) I simply cannot understand this. I may just be very bias, but I feel as if that type of crime, committed by anyone, would be horrible and devestating.

Opinions on his arrest/capture?


[ Mor information here: http://www.gendercide.org/case_srebrenica.html ]

Bisected8
05-27-2011, 05:35 PM
I was watching this on the news yesterday evening (when there was talk over whether his health would prevent him from being extradited). It's good to hear that he's been sent to the Hague, that's all I can say.

A.F.S. 1984
05-27-2011, 06:46 PM
The issue of people considering him a hero depends on which side the person supports. It also depends on who wins the conflict as to which people will be held responsible for all the death that a conflict causes.

8000 people in 2 days, while tragic, is no comparison to the 200,000 civilians that died as a result of the F.D.R. order to firebomb Todyo on March 9 and 10 of 1945. Because of the United States winning, F.D.R. was remembered as a great president instead of a mass murderer. It is interesting how things work.

Arc_The_Lad
05-27-2011, 08:00 PM
The issue of people considering him a hero depends on which side the person supports. It also depends on who wins the conflict as to which people will be held responsible for all the death that a conflict causes.

8000 people in 2 days, while tragic, is no comparison to the 200,000 civilians that died as a result of the F.D.R. order to firebomb Todyo on March 9 and 10 of 1945. Because of the United States winning, F.D.R. was remembered as a great president instead of a mass murderer. It is interesting how things work.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

penny_dreadful
06-05-2011, 10:02 AM
The Iranian women's soccer team was banned from the Olympics qualifying tournament because their head coverings violate FIFA regulations (http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/03/6781826-iranian-womens-national-soccer-team-banned-from-olympic-qualifying-tournament).

That is so, so unbelievably shitty. Can't anyone just be nice to Islamic women? Isn't there anyone in the world who doesn't want to discriminate against them for things they have virtually no control over?

DireKitty
06-05-2011, 10:06 AM
The Iranian women's soccer team was banned from the Olympics qualifying tournament because their head coverings violate FIFA regulations (http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/06/03/6781826-iranian-womens-national-soccer-team-banned-from-olympic-qualifying-tournament).

That is so, so unbelievably shitty. Can't anyone just be nice to Islamic women? Isn't there anyone in the world who doesn't want to discriminate against them for things they have virtually no control over?

I don't get it either.... i mean their veils don't block their view in any way, and i'm sure they don't block what they hear much either.

It's like they are wearing funny hats.

penny_dreadful
06-05-2011, 10:19 AM
I don't get it either.... i mean their veils don't block their view in any way, and i'm sure they don't block what they hear much either.

It's like they are wearing funny hats.

Maybe there's some logic behind the restrictions on FIFA's part, but ultimately it's not the women's fault they're required to wear hijab, yet they're the ones being penalized for it.

Lithium Flower
06-05-2011, 11:47 AM
Don't be silly. They're not barred from playing because they wear a hijab.

They're barred because anyone who wears a hijab is clearly a possible terrorist to the great sport of soccer and we must protect all those patriots who love soccer.

BECAUSE ISLAM.

/fume/
You know whats more important then cultural acceptance and the basic concept of humanity towards another person?

soccer.



SOCCER IS SERIOUS BSNS.

sam vimes
06-09-2011, 08:07 AM
Making Scott Walker look good by comparison. (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/zombie-protesters-interrupt-special-olympics-event-to-protest-wis-gov-walker/)

penny_dreadful
06-14-2011, 02:48 PM
Recently, a popular blogger named Amina, a Muslim-American lesbian living in Syria, was abducted from a street in Damascus, ostensibly by political factions who wanted to silence her. Immediately, the online world began clamoring against this terrible injustice.

The problem is, Amina never existed (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/14/weird-world-lesbian-hoaxers)-- except in the head of Tom McMaster, the heterosexual White man who invented her and acted as her "voice" on the blog. And then it got weirder from there.

*sigh* The road to Hell, etc.