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Yui
03-24-2004, 02:56 PM
http://www.acen.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2690

Just in case you don't visit the ACen forums regularly, please be aware that these are now in effect for this ACen.

Feel free to comment/discuss/complain &/or heckle them here.
(Edit: since the posting on their boards is now locked.)
(Additional edit: however, don't despair as posts on page 6 of this thread clarify some issues.)

ZiggyB
03-24-2004, 04:04 PM
Most of the rules seems reasonable, though, I wonder what's the deal with the "clear line of sight" one.

Well, other then bitch about it here, where security won't see it, I'll post my question there. :>

CapsuleCorp
03-24-2004, 11:14 PM
I think I mused somewhere something about understanding the reasoning, like years of people being sick of being smacked by wings, and the whole sprinkler system issue last year, but that doesn't mean I think these rules are necessarily good ideas, or easy to implement. The 6" rule in particular is going to freak a lot of people out, make winged characters pissed, and amuse me to no end if security actually does run around with rulers checking.

BountyBebopLuva
03-25-2004, 04:44 AM
Well.. thank heavens I'm going naked.. didn't see that covered in the rules XD j/k!

99Machsoul
03-26-2004, 04:13 PM
The only one I can think of that'll give people any real trouble is #1. What are the Clouds and Sanosuke's going to do with a sword no longer than 4' in length? o.o

This is the one that I don't like:

2. For photo opportunities, please move to a low traffic zone(out of the hallways) or outside.

The photo ops are the best part. I don't really wanna go stand in the parking lot....

And then I guess the one about no cosplay with anything 6" from your body. There's a bunch of cosplays I can think of that won't be wearable with that. A lot of angel cosplays and stuff. There were some great Clover coslays last year. That won't be usable now.

Ayana
03-26-2004, 04:51 PM
6 inches isn't a lot, and parts of a LOT of costumes will stick out that far, if not more. Just a simple pair of angel wings will. That rule is pretty dumb, IMO.

Saeru
03-27-2004, 01:56 AM
I HIGHLY encourage anyone that sees this thread to go post!! Please, input is required if we're to change anything...and we do need to change their rules if we're going to be able to cosplay anything decent at Acen.
Make suggestions to them that they can't counter...such as setting up a designated cosplaying area.

Ayaka
03-27-2004, 02:00 AM
6" is VERY little, and from what the ACen staff seem to be saying, it's not just hard costume pieces, like armor or wings, but also soft ones (fabric, foam, giant bows, whatever). Personally, I'm going to be posting further about this in the ACen forums and I encourage others to express their opinions there as well.

The 4' rule is quite understandable; and while it's unfortunate that say, Cloud couldn't carry his sword (unless the handle and blade came apart, perhaps?), props are NOT critical to one's costume. Cloud's still Cloud without a sword, even though it's not as cool. But the 6" rule could prevent people from wearing CRITICAL pieces of their costumes, or the entire costume (think hoop skirts). Giant wings I can understand . . . even though it will affect the cosplay of people I know personally, and that's sad. But I don't want to see ACen cosplay reduced to costumes that are basically like plain clothes (not that there's wrong with that type of cosplay, but it shouldn't be the only kind allowed).

I think it's very important to get more clarification on this, and also to try to make positive suggestions to the staff for how they might make the rules more reasonable. If the whole thing really came out of the actions of one irresponsible cosplayer last year, I think it's important to have the rules relate to cosplayer BEHAVIOR (and that of "regular" con-goers!), and not to limit the costumes themselves unreasonably.

For one thing, I think I'm going to suggest a "cosplay zone" over in the convention center, where it's very open, there is little traffic, and nothing that could potentially be damaged. Perhaps we can talk them into letting even the giant wings and maybe swords walk around if they're ONLY in that area.

XJhideSB
03-27-2004, 04:24 AM
I can understand the 4' prop rule and crap. If people are swinging around a large object, chances are that you are going to hit someone. But the 6" rule is a load of crap. Sure, if someone has pointy needles that are 10" long sticking out of their costume it makes sense, but otherwise it is stupid. I don't really care what ACen has to say about my costumes. They aren't going to be able to stop everyone who has something coming off of their costumes and measure them. And if they do stop you, what are they going to do? Ask you to go take it off? Yeah, good luck with that one.

Oh yeah, and if you want to convince ACen staff to change the rules, good luck with that one. They will say that it is the hotel's decision to do that, and that it is "no use fighting with them over it."

99Machsoul
03-27-2004, 08:30 AM
They aren't going to be able to stop everyone who has something coming off of their costumes and measure them. And if they do stop you, what are they going to do? Ask you to go take it off? Yeah, good luck with that one.

I'm hoping that the rule only looks bad from the outside and come May they'll only actually stop a person if their costume is actively causing problems and disturbances. Otherwise there are a lot of really great cosplays that we're going to miss out on this year.
I like Ayaka's "Cosplay Zone" idea.

Saeru
03-27-2004, 04:21 PM
Oh yeah, and if you want to convince ACen staff to change the rules, good luck with that one. They will say that it is the hotel's decision to do that, and that it is "no use fighting with them over it."

If that is the case, then its about time to change location.
But what we're trying to get them to do is not lose the rules...but modify them to a better compromise. Ayaka has a LOT of good ideas....we're waiting to see what the staff thinks of them.

Maryssa
03-27-2004, 06:04 PM
The main thing that pisses me off about this is that the main reason for all the rules is beacuse of how over-crowded they expect the con to be. Hello? Try obtaining a larger facility!!! If the con planners were very organized they would have estimated such an increase in attendance last year and would have accordingly thought out facility size compared to that attendance. I think this is very cheap and honestly really dumb because they could have solved everything by simply moving to a larger facility.

Yui
03-27-2004, 10:12 PM
This is ACen's secret way of saying they -only- wanna see skimpy, skintight costumes from now on!

The 4' rule is due to fitting props safely under seats in programming rooms - and is reasonable enough. However, the 6" rule is not only madness, but I believe uninforcable. And the "clear line of vision"...well, I never have that! Even when I'm not wearing a mask...or a wig. ^_^;

I do intend to contact ACen staff publically and privately on the issue (both as it applies to my own costumes and those I know of), because they risk alienating a good majority of their attendees with this move. Last year was 7,000 some people? And no hallway cosplay incidents? Personally, I'd like to see security spend their time cracking down on the piles of underage noisy roomparties rather than measuring wingspans.

SeraMuun
03-27-2004, 10:26 PM
I swear rules are getting more and more demanding.. What next.. you have to sheer the sheep and loom the fabric yourself ? The 6 inch rule is flipping insane.. ( the 4 ft prop rule sucks major too! I wouldnt be able to have my inuyasha sword! )
they need to shove those 6 inche (rule ) up there ass....

XJhideSB
03-28-2004, 12:16 AM
From the looks of it, ACen is already suffering from their rules. So far only about 25 groups have signed up for the masquerade. Last year around this time they were more than full if I recall correctly. I bet the main reason that nobody is signing up is because they don't want to come due to their stupid new rules.

Good luck ACen! You're losing more and more attendees every day! XD

Yui
03-28-2004, 12:57 AM
Ayaka and Saeru and right that we -can- go beyond what they can control.
If we can't be in the hotel, the convention center is much more open, so we can set up the "Blacklisted" Photoshoots there. Also, outside is public domain (the whole ten feet of sidewalk, two benches and a flowerbed of "outside" that there is) so we'll be taking over that - probably loitering around the unloading parkway as well. Or maybe we cosplayers can relocate to a different hotel that doesn't have such restrictions (since most of the con is actually in the con center this year anyway, so no need to be in the overpriced/overcrowded Hyatt.)

Regardless of how this situation is resolved &/or handled, everyone should still be encouraged to bring exactly what they were intending to bring anyway. Don't let any of this kill your costume plans. Be aware of it, but don't despair.

Menchi
03-28-2004, 01:18 AM
keep in mind acen isnt doing any rules on props or such to piss you ppl off or lose attendees, but believe what ya want i spose. most the major rules are so they dont break firecode or b/c of last minute hotel things the 6' prop bit came about b/c of new sprinkler heads and the *hotel told acen this* not acen sayin let's be jerks an see how many ppl we can piss off.

all things being you can do costumes that arent skintight skimpy outfits an have props...big deal if you cant have an 8' inu yasha sword or something. me am grateful they dont install a rule like japanese cons an make it anythign bigger than 12" (or was it 18"?). if you really think about it there are still alot of costumes that dont require a HUGE PROP or skin tight or skimpy clothing. ^_~

Saeru
03-28-2004, 01:35 AM
This is ACen's secret way of saying they -only- wanna see skimpy, skintight costumes from now on!

The 4' rule is due to fitting props safely under seats in programming rooms - and is reasonable enough. However, the 6" rule is not only madness, but I believe uninforcable. And the "clear line of vision"...well, I never have that! Even when I'm not wearing a mask...or a wig. ^_^;

I do intend to contact ACen staff publically and privately on the issue (both as it applies to my own costumes and those I know of), because they risk alienating a good majority of their attendees with this move. Last year was 7,000 some people? And no hallway cosplay incidents? Personally, I'd like to see security spend their time cracking down on the piles of underage noisy roomparties rather than measuring wingspans.

*laughs* It becomes skimp-con.

Actually....according to them...your masks are completely fine. ^^ Which is good....because you have so many.

Saeru
03-28-2004, 01:38 AM
:sulk: :sulk: :sulk: :sulk:

Alright, I'm pissed enough to use emoticons.

They just said that they aren't willing to compromise.

Father always said to chose my battles carefully.
*suits up in more than 6" Balmung armor*
...lets go to war.

Saeru
03-28-2004, 01:52 AM
Ayaka and Saeru and right that we -can- go beyond what they can control.
If we can't be in the hotel, the convention center is much more open, so we can set up the "Blacklisted" Photoshoots there. Also, outside is public domain (the whole ten feet of sidewalk, two benches and a flowerbed of "outside" that there is) so we'll be taking over that - probably loitering around the unloading parkway as well. Or maybe we cosplayers can relocate to a different hotel that doesn't have such restrictions (since most of the con is actually in the con center this year anyway, so no need to be in the overpriced/overcrowded Hyatt.)

Regardless of how this situation is resolved &/or handled, everyone should still be encouraged to bring exactly what they were intending to bring anyway. Don't let any of this kill your costume plans. Be aware of it, but don't despair.

The way I see it...*still putting on peices of stapled armor*
they -can't- enforce the six inch rule in the hotel hallways unless the hotel itself says that it is part of their rules. Because...they can kick us out of the con....*zip*
...but all that is doing is preventing us from going in the panel rooms.
Only the hotel can kick us out of the hotel...right?

SeraMuun
03-28-2004, 02:16 AM
Hell, last year I wore Peorth with the thigh highs for the illusion of more modesty, and was approached by several staff members who reprimanded me for my 'skimpy' costume (strangely enough these staff members have developed amnesia on the issue when Ive asked them this time) Whereas a girl in a full blown string bikini and bunny ears received no reprimand.

Cosplay rules at conventions are becoming rediculous, and it will eventualy kill the culture.


I agree with you.. there putting so many rules in place its getting to be no fun at cons.. I for one am 100% NOT gonna go to Acen now... not with rules like that..alot of my costumes are either really fluffy (chii) and they take up some room. why dont they just ban having fun too?

Yumeko
03-28-2004, 03:46 AM
Okay first of all Acen didn't make the six inch rule just to take away your cosplay fun, but to the best of my knowledge on the request of the hotel. Last year there were several near miss accidents with the sprinkler heads in the hotel due to Oversized props and XXXtra large wings.

It's your loss if you choose not to come just becuase You can't wear the costumes you want becuase it extends more than six inches.

Besides, who's going to walk around with a ruler and measure everyone???

Armorfiend
03-28-2004, 05:20 AM
"Okay first of all Acen didn't make the six inch rule just to take away your cosplay fun, but to the best of my knowledge on the request of the hotel. Last year there were several near miss accidents with the sprinkler heads in the hotel due to Oversized props and XXXtra large wings. "

The six inch rule was explicitly stated as being NOT in relation to the sprinkler heads. It was in relation to the cosplayers moving around other attendees.

"It's your loss if you choose not to come just becuase You can't wear the costumes you want becuase it extends more than six inches."
Enjoyment-wise, perhaps so. Monetarily, it is the loss of the convention organization as well as all of the businesses that have paid good money to set up vendors stalls.
And money talks.

"Besides, who's going to walk around with a ruler and measure everyone???"
One of the best demonstrations yet of the ultimate unenforceability of the rule itself. And any rule that cannot be enforced is a bad rule that should not be made.

Yui
03-28-2004, 05:33 AM
I see we have some perspectives of volunteer staffers. (I was hoping this wouldn't turn into just a boycott ACen thread.)

I can see that most of these are safety issues - the reasons behind them don't need to be defnded - however, I simply don't appreciate the way it was presented, worded as though we were children being reprimanded before even doing anything wrong.
They also -knew- these rules would be in effect this year, and knew the crowd level would be greater. They should have planned and set aside a conference room/ballroom -just- for cosplayers, perhaps. Some sort of compensation rather than a list of "don't"s.

They also do seem to be scared of the word "compromise." I believe that most of us who may have costumes that would infringe on these rules -are- adults.

...And I come to a con to cosplay. Not cosplaying to the best of my ability -is- "missing out" on a con. Sad that the con I could most easily transport my huge pieces to is the one that is now going to restrict them.

Yui
03-28-2004, 06:04 AM
Again, considering that most peoples arms are well over six inches, and are far more likely to flail and slap than a bouncy tail or poofy skirt, the measurement restriction needs to be revised. At this point, its more rediculous and bizzare than anything else.

You know, I think it would be the most fair policy to give everyone a set quota of "volume" allowed. Some people can use this as simply a space bubble. Some could use it for additional mass, such as if they are already 6' tall. Short, little people like myself can make use of the surplus reserved area for costume pieces.
...Seriously though, such a concept would be just as easy to enforce as what they are proposing.

All right, Saeru - seems we're hosting the alternative convention out on the sidewalk. You get to be security and not let anyone who -isn't- wearing at least 7" protrusions to come to the picnic. XD
I guess there's no need to fight directly with the ACen rulemakers and their inflexible mindset. We acknowledge their silly rules, go off and enjoy the weekend where their rules don't apply. And then go to the feedback panel on Sunday, so this all gets sorted out properly for next year.

DaphHime
03-28-2004, 10:57 AM
I'm a bit miffed at the 6" rule myself. Mostly because one of the seires I cosplay from is well known for it's large sholderpads and armor. I already know of a poor Ilpalazzo cosplayer who has to alter his costume because of this ill defined rule. I'm starting to think this is the reason why my ES photoshoot thread got no posts. ^_^'

And from all directions? What about people (like me) with naturally long hair? Are they going to ask people to cut their hair too? I find this rule to be very confuseing and vuge.

As for the 4 foot prop rule. They suggested that larger props be collapsiable. What about props that can't? Like Haruko and her bass gutair? They really needed to consder alot of cosplays that could be affected by this.

jenchan
03-28-2004, 11:15 AM
I'm a bit miffed at the 6" rule myself. Mostly because one of the seires I cosplay from is well known for it's large sholderpads and armor. I already know of a poor Ilpalazzo cosplayer who has to alter his costume because of this ill defined rule. I'm starting to think this is the reason why my ES photoshoot thread got no posts. ^_^'


E's cosplay? I'm interested....It's such a great manga (and now anime).

Tha's just awesome. I really want to do an Ejji coat..

Hey, what NOT cool about a coat with a cape already attached?

XJhideSB
03-28-2004, 01:26 PM
I have another question about the 6" rule. Some people may not take it seriously, but they should. What about all of those really really large people, whose fat comes off of their body more than 6 inches? Are they going to be exclulded from the con for endangering the space of other congoers? I could name a few staff members right now that would not be able to go to the con if the 6" rule was taken seriously. Looks like they might have to compromise.

Menchi
03-28-2004, 01:52 PM
me i am doubtful they wil get on their hands and kneed an maeasure from you leg to the edge a hoop skirt...that is not wise for several reasons (you figure it out on why...). but the 6" rule is there for your safety *not* to ruin your cosplay dreams...is really stupid to assume is to be mean (acen doesnt like making rules to ruin your cosplay dreams).

a bass guitar shoudnt be an issue as long as ya arent being reckless with it. if anything jus be mindful of ppl ne? i know i have had my run ins with con sec at cons but if your polite to them they are usually polite back ^^

i woud rather knwo what the rules are and still ahve fun at a con thn to say...condemn it before it happens. if anyone chose to be all depressed an such before an lets it ruin the con for them, their choice. if they dont show b/c of the 6" or 4' rule that is their choice...but is jus taking the easy way out i think

Reesie271
03-28-2004, 02:26 PM
Ok, forgive me for being stupid, but, a good friend of mine is blind and when I mentioned the clear line of sight thing he almost died laughing! one of his costumes completely covers his face and it doesnt make a difference at all if he is wearing it or not. His white cane is over 4 feet in length too! So, my question is, are they gonna take a white cane from a blind man? and can you imagine how the poor security person is gonna feel if ordered to?

HyperrrMouse
03-28-2004, 03:56 PM
I hope they won't take it! that'd be ridiculous! You should mention all this to the Acen moderators, see what they say. It could also be a bit amusing ^_^

Saeru
03-28-2004, 04:45 PM
All right, Saeru - seems we're hosting the alternative convention out on the sidewalk. You get to be security and not let anyone who -isn't- wearing at least 7" protrusions to come to the picnic. XD

Amusing to me since Con security decided I wasn't good enough to staff with them in the past.

[QUOTE
I guess there's no need to fight directly with the ACen rulemakers and their inflexible mindset. We acknowledge their silly rules, go off and enjoy the weekend where their rules don't apply. And then go to the feedback panel on Sunday, so this all gets sorted out properly for next year.[/QUOTE]

Yeah...because it does need to be sorted out eventually.
And IF....(and I only say if because ACEN is so close to us and thus convenient) ACEN is unwilling to compromise for next year....
THEN we start recruiting people for Ohayocon.

....or we just start up a convention strictly for cosplayers.

Saeru
03-28-2004, 04:48 PM
i woud rather knwo what the rules are and still ahve fun at a con thn to say...condemn it before it happens. if anyone chose to be all depressed an such before an lets it ruin the con for them, their choice. if they dont show b/c of the 6" or 4' rule that is their choice...but is jus taking the easy way out i think

No. I don't think that at all. (Of course, that doesn't mean I think any less of you for thinking it, but I did find that a little insulting. ^^; )
A con is a business...an organization.
If they're not going to cater to the customers, then we're going to take our business elsewhere in the future.
This doesn't mean we're not showing up to ACEN this year, either. We all have had way too many plans for it to let them be dashed into the dust by silly rules. ^^

Saeru
03-28-2004, 04:51 PM
I have another question about the 6" rule. Some people may not take it seriously, but they should. What about all of those really really large people, whose fat comes off of their body more than 6 inches? Are they going to be exclulded from the con for endangering the space of other congoers? I could name a few staff members right now that would not be able to go to the con if the 6" rule was taken seriously. Looks like they might have to compromise.

NEWS AT 10:
Local con starts offering liposuction to overweight cosplayers.
(kidding, of course....and with no insults intended since several of my good friends -are- overweight cosplayers)

Saeru
03-28-2004, 04:53 PM
Ok, forgive me for being stupid, but, a good friend of mine is blind and when I mentioned the clear line of sight thing he almost died laughing! one of his costumes completely covers his face and it doesnt make a difference at all if he is wearing it or not. His white cane is over 4 feet in length too! So, my question is, are they gonna take a white cane from a blind man? and can you imagine how the poor security person is gonna feel if ordered to?

Oh, wow. Absolute kudos to your friend for cosplaying. I'd love to see the sec-divs reaction to him.

jennekohan
03-28-2004, 05:28 PM
I think the majority of the rules are ridiculous too. On the ACen message boards one staff member said that they could let kimonos slide. Now how is it fair to let kimonos slide when the sleeves are obviously more then six inches long? How is it fair to let certain costumes slide, but not others? I can't believe that they have so much trouble with cosplayers in the past that they have had to run around all day dealing with people tripping over every dress that might be a bit long or every person who carried a large sword.

Yes, I'm sure there have been people with certain costumes and props that have caused trouble, but why do all of us have to suffer from what a few have done? I think that if a certain costumer is causing trouble then they should be asked to change out of their costume. Don't make everyone suffer because one guy was running around in a box and knocked some stuff over. If people aren't taking proper care of their things and are not aware of the people around them then they should be delt with properly. But I mean, I own pants that are more then six inches wide. Am I going to be kicked out because I don't want to change out of my pants? Again, it isn't fair to let certain things go and not others so they should just get rid of the six inch rule all together.

As for the four foot long props thing last year my brother and I had the large Domo-kun costume. ACen told us that the rule was being inforced by the hotel, but you know what the hotel told us? The exact opposite! They said that they weren't the ones who created and were inforcing the rule, they told us that ACen staff was! In the end we were able to use our costume though and had no problems so why are they making a big deal out if it again this year? The day after the masquerade we saw a giant No Face that almost touched the celing. There was no way that our Domo-kun costume could touch the celing, but the No Face was able to walk around with no problem?

I'm just getting tired of their rules. If someone comes up to me this year and says, "You're petticoat is longer then six inches, you need to change." or something ridiculous like that I'm just not going back to ACen. I love ACen, I've been going since it started, but I won't put up with crazy rules like those.

jennekohan
03-28-2004, 05:41 PM
Check it out! My pajama pants come more then six inches off of my body!

http://members.aol.com/ChibiNuku/pants.jpg

Guess I'll be sleeping in the nude at ACen!

99Machsoul
03-28-2004, 05:46 PM
E's cosplay? I'm interested....It's such a great manga (and now anime).

I think she means Excel Saga.

Ayaka and Saeru and right that we -can- go beyond what they can control.
If we can't be in the hotel, the convention center is much more open, so we can set up the "Blacklisted" Photoshoots there. Also, outside is public domain (the whole ten feet of sidewalk, two benches and a flowerbed of "outside" that there is) so we'll be taking over that - probably loitering around the unloading parkway as well

Why don't we do that? Have like a little party or make it known that everybody can go there to show off their cosplay and just hang out, have fun and take pictures and maybe even have photo ops there without being sassed by the guards. For Clouds and Sanosukes: the bigger the sword the better. ;)

I personally wouldn't get bothered by anyone about my cosplay because there's not much to it this year, but I have friends who would. And there's not much to theirs either. I have a friend going as Sera from Megatokyo (with the little angel wings on her back) more than 6", and another who is going as Puchiko from DiGi Charat. She made the hat with ears herself, and she's got a tail too. -.-

Saeru
03-28-2004, 07:31 PM
Why don't we do that? Have like a little party or make it known that everybody can go there to show off their cosplay and just hang out, have fun and take pictures and maybe even have photo ops there without being sassed by the guards. For Clouds and Sanosukes: the bigger the sword the better. ;)



Oh, we are going to do that. *grins* I'm looking forward to it.
We can even make signs and put them up saying that anyone looking for the banned cosplayers should go 'here.'

And we can also put up a sign on the food room that says "Mobile Suite Gundam." *loves being contrary at this time*

Yui
03-28-2004, 07:39 PM
I don't think we're depressed here, but we are geniunely concerned. I'm not condemning a chance to meet up with my friends, so I can promise that I -do- intend to show. I will be in the area.
The cosplay rules aren't going to chase me away from the scene, nor ruin my cosplay dreams, as I will not be altering altering any of dozens of perfectly field-tested costumes due to some vague all-emcompassing restrictions. I will wear what I was intending, and simply step outside the area they can enforce. I won't potentionally interfere with their traffic and safety issues so long as they don't interfere with me. Since the rules are so alarmingly unwaivering this year, I encourage everyone to shrug it off for now, passively protesting by cosplaying hardcore outside.

Perhaps this will be such a significant loss of congoer interaction elsewhere that the ACen planners may take this factor into more serious consideration. Since I'm likely to be in the neutral zone of the outside the whole time, I won't have time to submit art to the art show, perform in the masquerade this year, see guests I'm actually interested in, or visit the dealers' room. Why, I haven't sent my money order for pre-reg in yet even. Multiply this behavoir by all the cosplayers who are worried, and it just might put a dent in the entire convention as a whole, losing money and quality and thus affecting even non-cosplayers.

Cons are businesses, and they -are- losing customers when they lose costumers.

Saeru
03-28-2004, 07:51 PM
Perhaps this will be such a significant loss of congoer interaction elsewhere that the ACen planners may take this factor into more serious consideration. Since I'm likely to be in the neutral zone of the outside the whole time, I won't have time to submit art to the art show, perform in the masquerade this year, see guests I'm actually interested in, or visit the dealers' room. Why, I haven't sent my money order for pre-reg in yet even. Multiply this behavoir by all the cosplayers who are worried, and it just might put a dent in the entire convention as a whole, losing money and quality and thus affecting even non-cosplayers.

Cons are businesses, and they -are- losing customers when they lose costumers.

With these rules being so unflexible, I'm worried about our masquerade skit, too. Perhaps we should get up there anyhow.
....very lovely with the customer/costumer at the end, there, by the way.

As the coordinator for a trip of 20 some odd people going to Acen each year...
and knowing how many people plan their con trips around which of their friends are going to Acen....
I believe that each person can make a difference.

Yui
03-28-2004, 08:05 PM
Why don't we do that? Have like a little party or make it known that everybody can go there to show off their cosplay and just hang out, have fun and take pictures and maybe even have photo ops there without being sassed by the guards. For Clouds and Sanosukes: the bigger the sword the better.

I shall see what kind of interest I can get for volunteers to donate money/food/transportation to the project. (But since this is existing outside of ACen, the planning for it will be on the C^3 board in the member's sub-forums below.)

We can even make signs and put them up saying that anyone looking for the banned cosplayers should go 'here.'


Well, this is a good idea, but I don't want them taken down - so a proposition would have to at least be known by the staff. We're willing to stay out of their hair so long as they give the cosplayers a chance to gather on their own. It would be nice if the security people might direct 'rule-breakers' outside rather than sending them back to their rooms.

Also...whether the costumes are bulky or not, I'm thinking it'd be wise to move the cosplay group meeting area -outside- rather than using the giant indoor sculpture this year, weather pending. It's dark and crowded inside anyway. Probably across the street by the "Great ExpOteria Restaurant" and the little fountain.

Ayaka
03-28-2004, 08:10 PM
I won't repeat what I've said on the ACen forums here, but I have made a long post there if anyone wishes to read it. I am doing my best to have an intelligent discussion with the staff about their rules, and I hope that I will receive the same in return, which is not an unreasonable request.

I have decided that I WILL wear my costume which I am afraid might break the rules, if they are not further clarified. If I can't make a case for the rule being a) impossible to enforce and maybe keeping security busy with rulers when they have more important things to do and b) being unreasonable in the first place, I intend to make a case that they MUST be laid out more thoroughly. If anyone else wants to say something, they should really say it over at the ACen forums as well - I think it's really important that they know that it's more than a few people who are bothered by the parameters of the rule.

And, yes, "banned from ACen" party . . .

Ayaka
03-28-2004, 08:14 PM
Err for some reason I can't edit - I wanted to say that I think kimono sleeves were mentioned as an exception because I asked specifically.

So people might want to try emailing and asking about their particular costume pieces.

RoMayDrako
03-29-2004, 12:36 AM
:: mumbles :: This does ruin alot of fun for acen. I seen some people manage large costumes just fine. I seen some use misimproprietly. ONe thing that i noted, is people have complained to the con and they closed there ears. Short they didn't want to hear about it. So the trouble makers COULD have been stopped. My first ACEN I got smacked by a sanosuke.

THe six in rule, OH COME ON! That in unreasonable, the adverage person dosnt' let anyone six inches near them by choice. Foot is reasonable, but six. And as in for the Snake in the box, I'll be sure to kick him exstra, I know where he is. :: glares at her AIM :: But yeah this is ruining it for acen.

Last year I flashed a few people accidently adn the con said nothing, but my guy freind wore a minny skirt and he was asked to change. WTF. I mean what rules there are need to be refined and not so discrimitory. This MIGHT be my last year at acen if I get smothered in rules. I can't take the stess if every time I move I"m dictated if I'm right or wrong.

AMFL

XJhideSB
03-29-2004, 12:57 AM
With all of these people here and on the ACen forums saying "just change the hotel!" and all of that stuff, here is how we get them to change the hotel.

Step 1: Everyone who has a costume bring a huge prop with you (at least 5 feet).
Step 2: Make sure something is coming off of your body over 6 inches (preferably something pointy).
Step 3: Hit the sprinklers with your enormous prop.
Step 4: Poke all hotel staff with your 6" spikes in the eye.
Step 5: The hotel bans ACen from coming back, and they are forced to move to a different facility.

Hehehe XD

CapsuleCorp
03-29-2004, 01:12 AM
now now, no sense being irrational.

I'll get to the ACen forums tomorrow, I am curious to know whether discussion is actually going on about this topic over there. Last I checked threads on the subject, they had only JUST posted the rules, nothing had really been said about them.

Funny, discovered by some eyeballing, I think my Mystic Gohan coat shoulders go out more than six inches. I'm with Yui, that won't stop me bringing it and wearing it, but I'll laugh my ass off if some con staffer comes up with a ruler. For the most part, my costumes don't do anything radical, but just because I'm personally safe doesn't mean I'm going to be very laid-back about this. I can think of a good long list of costume parts that are quite likely rule-breakers, and couldn't fathom seeing an anime con without them: animal tails, cloaks, hoop skirts and petticoats, big shoulders, hats, headdresses, wings, No Face, wigs, dropped sleeves, rose-whips, full skirts...

My greatest area of question is how they decided 6" would be the measurement? Who came up with that idea, and how did they convince staff that it was the right number? Did they think about the costumes before deciding, or is it arbitrary? And DO they plan to enforce it? Do they really want people emailing them constantly with "Is my (fill in the blank) costume going to be okay to wear because it's bigger than six inches?" Like I say, I can understand the reasoning behind it: we don't want people being whacked by oversize wings and tripped by long trains. Good thing. Restricting ALL costumes to this completely silly measurement? Bad thing.

But perhaps raising a good bit of panic amongst the cosplayers this early will help - even if staff says they'll be inflexible about the rule, the more people freaking out and complaining at them in a tizzy, the more they'll have to think about just how they're going to enforce it and what happens when lots of cosplayers get pissed.

And Yumeko - *hugs* it must not be fun to have to watch this, being on staff, knowing some of their perspective and trying to defend, but still knowing all of us and knowing where we're coming from. Perhaps you could help by letting the other staffers know that they've got some cosplayers a little ruffled and could save themselves a huge headache by heading off the panic before it becomes a serious problem?

Saeru
03-29-2004, 01:49 AM
Head on over there now guys and see their newest lovely reply. Hopefully they'll add more. I think that poor staffer is getting tired of justifying himself, though.
As has been said...our best mode of attack is to just bring what we were gonna bring. They -can't- say we can't wear it in the atrium or outside, since that is hotel property. ^^ But thats been pointed out before. e.e This post was really to point out the new stuff on the acen board.

jennekohan
03-29-2004, 01:59 AM
Seems like some of the staff over there has enough free time to come up with snide remarks instead of answering the questions of paying con attendees. I'm still going to wear what I planned on bringing, but in all honesty I wouldn't even go to ACen anymore if it wasn't the only con certain friends of mine attend. Over the past few years many of my friends and myself have been treated very rudely and it doesn't look like things have changed at all.

Ayaka
03-29-2004, 02:17 AM
Let's hope that that comment was a prelude to a well-thought out reply that he didn't feel like posting until he had a chance to fully proofread it. :P

CapsuleCorp - the discussion over there has been ongoing for the past couple of days. Oddly enough, none of the regular members of the ACen forums were making any comment - nothing got started until some c.com people migrated over there . . .

Armorfiend
03-29-2004, 03:33 AM
Something that may or may not matter...

Anyone who sets up and announces a cosplay area outside the boundaries of the convention does risk the convention co-opting the idea, if they try to coordinate with the convention staff. Which would most likely result in the convention staff attempting to take over the area in question if it is in/around the convention center. After all, the yard around the convention center is still the property of the center, so they could make a legitimate argument, depending on what their lease says.

Your best bet is to not tell them you're going to take over any specific area, and instead just do it and, as mentioned, give them the what-for at the evaluation at the end of the con.

Guess it's just as well I'm not going. Sounds like there won't be much to see.

BlitzballMstr
03-29-2004, 04:11 AM
well I have not been over to the acen boards in a couple days...(way before this all started) but I think this just may be a way of covering their necks it depends on how serious they intend to be with the rule, they way it was said in the mailing I got sounded like they don't want like giant spikes (legato bluesummers ala Trigun) poking someones eye out depending on how crowded the hallways may be. they could very well let somethingwith spike longer than 6 inches but not too big type of deal. In the past they seemed to be very understanding on the rules. I hope they dont turn acen cossplay into a police state becuase it seems that they would lose alot of people a good guess would be that for every 5 people they have come to the con 4.5 of them will be in a costume at some point. It would be a major loss for them to alienate the fan base ^^

Hoshikuzu
03-29-2004, 11:53 AM
I can understand the 4' rule simply because some things are dangerous. However, I think that a weapon should be allowed to be at max 6' because 6' is still around the hieght of an average man. If a 6' person can walk around and not hit the ceiling so can a 6' weapon. Also, they dont go measuring unless your weapon is exceedingly big like the gun from hellsing. If your weapon doesnt exceed your hieght ten to one they wont notice. Also, I think the 6' rule applies more to wings and sharp armor than anything else. I dont think you need to worry about skirts! Funny thing is my Carmilla costume is now totally against all these rules due to her train, skirt and wig so I couldnt bring her if I wanted to :(. Oh and remember all the rules of weapon size dont apply for the masquerade...just five billion other rules do lol! Good luck everyone with revamping their costumes to meet Jazz and the others qualifications. Youre fighting a difficult battle for these people are not easy to deal with. I know from the fight we had with them not wanting us to do our VHD:Bloodlust skit cause we had fighting and a bunch of peeps. Its a tough battle so make sure its worth the fight.

99Machsoul
03-29-2004, 01:52 PM
Seems like some of the staff over there has enough free time to come up with snide remarks instead of answering the questions of paying con attendees. I'm still going to wear what I planned on bringing, but in all honesty I wouldn't even go to ACen anymore if it wasn't the only con certain friends of mine attend. Over the past few years many of my friends and myself have been treated very rudely and it doesn't look like things have changed at all.

I've had the exact same experience the last few years. The security and staff memberst that I've talked to or come into contact with were very rude, very unhelpful and some were outright confrontational.
This isn't an outburst just saying that every single staff is that way, or to the extent that if you ask a staff member a simple question about where to go they're going to scream at you but last year especially I found that the staff members that were running things, trying rather, really weren't. I know for some it's a hard job, but....
I almost left and didn't come back during the masquerade line last year when during a big move of people I lost my friends and they wouldn't let me in to look for them and ignored me when I asked where I could get in the back of the line. At one point they were directing people around and one person just snapped and pointed away from the hotel and said "Just walk! That way! Go!"

I'm wondering... we might not have any problems with security and staff over cosplay or even just being there... but I'm wondering... What are the possibilities if we do have confrontations???

Personally, I hated Acen last year. Had a horrible time. I'm going this year because of people I wanna meet and I promised I'd go with a friend of mine to an anime con. If the number of people and problems escalate.... I'm just going to look for another con.

KawaiiMog
03-29-2004, 04:42 PM
If someone came up to me with a ruler to measure my tail (Im going as puchiko) that would be like, sexual harassment because to *technically* measure the tail you'd have to lift the skirt :miffed: and that would result in a LOT of problems for them. :angry: :argue: :mad: I didn't get to go last year and experience the superior customer service. If they get rude with me I'm going to give them a little piece of my mind. These rules almost make me not want to go, but since I missed last year I promised myself (and my friend) that I am going this year. By the way, not going because of the rules (and since I DOUBT you can get a refund) is letting THEM win. :sulk:

erikadoor
03-29-2004, 05:28 PM
Erika here.

*laughs herself sick* Acen is too bloody big to enforce all this, and I for one am bringing everything I wish to bring. Maya Natsume will have her Reiki [extra-long katana], Sophia will have her absurdly gauzy and beaded clothing, and well...no worries about my Masquerade costume, altho' I'd *love* to make it a hall costume even for just a short while due to the train.

What cons say and what cons do are very different things and after years of going to this con, you can almost guarantee that we get to do about what we please, so long as we stay within the realms of polite and reasonable. It all feels like a game of silly buggers.

Then again, I could be wrong. I could be going to other cons after five ACens.

Erika Door
http://www.erikadoor.com

HEDGESMFG
03-29-2004, 05:51 PM
I do hope that this all isn't seriously enforced. It won't effect ME, but it is guarenteed to effect alot of costumes that I'm sure I'd "Ooh" and "Ahh" at any other time, and I'd really hate to see ACEN's costume quality drop because of a silly rule. (Not that bigger is always better, but still...alot of good costumes would be put into question by these rules)

If it is seriously enforced (and I don't see how it COULD be), I don't think I'll be very happy with ACEN after this year.

Yumeko
03-29-2004, 06:15 PM
now now, no sense being irrational.

I'll get to the ACen forums tomorrow, I am curious to know whether discussion is actually going on about this topic over there. Last I checked threads on the subject, they had only JUST posted the rules, nothing had really been said about them.

Funny, discovered by some eyeballing, I think my Mystic Gohan coat shoulders go out more than six inches. I'm with Yui, that won't stop me bringing it and wearing it, but I'll laugh my ass off if some con staffer comes up with a ruler. For the most part, my costumes don't do anything radical, but just because I'm personally safe doesn't mean I'm going to be very laid-back about this. I can think of a good long list of costume parts that are quite likely rule-breakers, and couldn't fathom seeing an anime con without them: animal tails, cloaks, hoop skirts and petticoats, big shoulders, hats, headdresses, wings, No Face, wigs, dropped sleeves, rose-whips, full skirts...

My greatest area of question is how they decided 6" would be the measurement? Who came up with that idea, and how did they convince staff that it was the right number? Did they think about the costumes before deciding, or is it arbitrary? And DO they plan to enforce it? Do they really want people emailing them constantly with "Is my (fill in the blank) costume going to be okay to wear because it's bigger than six inches?" Like I say, I can understand the reasoning behind it: we don't want people being whacked by oversize wings and tripped by long trains. Good thing. Restricting ALL costumes to this completely silly measurement? Bad thing.

But perhaps raising a good bit of panic amongst the cosplayers this early will help - even if staff says they'll be inflexible about the rule, the more people freaking out and complaining at them in a tizzy, the more they'll have to think about just how they're going to enforce it and what happens when lots of cosplayers get pissed.

And Yumeko - *hugs* it must not be fun to have to watch this, being on staff, knowing some of their perspective and trying to defend, but still knowing all of us and knowing where we're coming from. Perhaps you could help by letting the other staffers know that they've got some cosplayers a little ruffled and could save themselves a huge headache by heading off the panic before it becomes a serious problem?

believe me it is not easy!!!
Now I don't know what in the Hell Jazz was thinking when he came up with the six inch rule but I think it is well dumb. But there is nothing I can do about that. with an estimated attendence of 8000+ the hallways are going to be jam packed.

I know last year the halls were a little tight and the attendence was only 6000+ I had some near accidents with other people's costumes and I was running back and fourth between video rooms.
What I am saying is if you are going to rebel agianst the rule, then don't complain when someone bumps into, steps on, bends, tears, or breaks a part of your costumes.
Do also keep in mind that the rule only applies to Hall...if you are in the masqurade (and I know most of you are) then you have nothing to worry about
And Saeru, I went back and read the thread and he said he was not going revise the rule this year. We are not out to "kill' cosplay.

I know alot of you think it is soo easy planning a con, Well It's not. Jazz is primarly the only one handling all of the Pre-Con duties when it comes to Masqurade. Seriously it hurt me to see a majority of you throwing a temper tantrum over a rule

Edit: Kawaii Mog, the rule doesn't apply to tails so no one is going to bother you in your puchiko costume.

jenchan
03-29-2004, 06:54 PM
I honestly don't think that the Hyatt was ready for an Anime Convention, or cosplayers for that matter.

Hikaru0
03-29-2004, 07:45 PM
Yumeko-
It does appear most everyone is 'tantruming' about the rule, but I think many of us are frustrated because Jazz (or whomever else is involved with the costume rule making) is not willing to comprimise. I do feel bad about the position you must be in now, and I hope the stress lightens up before acen :|

Another point I should put in the acen site forums is; what about the people who don't visit the message boards at all? They won't know about this rule until they recieve the con program guide. hm.

Yui
03-29-2004, 08:06 PM
From the ACen board, page 3:
"It has been said that I am limiting cosplayers' creativity with these rules. It could be seen as that...

OR IT COULD BE SEEN AS A CHALLENGE. A challenge to see if you, any of you, can create a fantastic cotume and still fit within these rules. *shrug* Obviously, no one is up to the challenge.

Jazhed508 - Tossing down the gauntlet."

I think I'm going to cry. This sounds -just- like Katsucon. I can't even respond to this sentiment coherantly nor politely in the thread it came from.

I'm getting very worried now.

Yumeko
03-29-2004, 08:28 PM
Yumeko-
It does appear most everyone is 'tantruming' about the rule, but I think many of us are frustrated because Jazz (or whomever else is involved with the costume rule making) is not willing to comprimise. I do feel bad about the position you must be in now, and I hope the stress lightens up before acen :|

I doubt that this is going to blow over easily Hikaru0. I mean seriously you have cosplayers here talking about either boycotting or rebelling agianst the rules. to those of you who do rebel do remeber that it is your beautiful costumes you are putting in the front line of damage.

At the moment the best I can do is talk to Jaz, but again considering he is really the primary person spearheading the masqurade portion, he is under alot of stress. (That's probably why he said second consideration of the rules would have to wait till next year.)

I know he meant well, but again, I still don't know what he was thinking. Hell this is the first I've heard about this rule. I only know of the ones passed down by the hotel and between you and me, the six inch one was not one of them

And while I can turn a blind eye away from the conflict, I know some of the more anial retentive staff members won't. I know most DH's will be Uber busy overseeing that everything runs smoothly in their departments to even look and see if a person's costume is more than six inches away from their body. I sure as hell know I won't be stopping cosplayers to measure them becuase I'll be busy in Live Programming or preparing my panel (which now I am doubting anyone will show for)

99Machsoul: I'm sorry you hated ACen last year, but think of it this way, You were at least able to enjoy the con. I was working in the vid programming rooms last year and didn't get to see much of the con becuase I was either working or too tired.

Jenchan: This is the third year ACen has been at the Hyatt. I do not think they were anticipating the growth potential when they made a deal with M.A.P.S.
This year I think we got a break considering we have "Run of the house" over the whole hotel where as last year we had to deal with Arizona State tampering with our signs and other material as well as harassing congoers to an extent. Then lets not forget the Prom that was up there too.

Hoshikuzu
03-29-2004, 09:02 PM
I have to agree that most of the hype is caused by frustration. All the major cosplay changes Acen has made since January are probably just building up in everyones minds. Yes it would have been nice to have known a year ago about the masq rule changes or the hall cosplay rule changes but theres nothing we can do now. On the Acen forum theres another hall cosplay rules thread. it explains that 6" isnt as literal as it looks. Take a look, lots of things are cleared up there.

Black_Knight
03-29-2004, 09:08 PM
Check it out! My pajama pants come more then six inches off of my body!

Guess I'll be sleeping in the nude at ACen!


Would I be able to stay in your room then? :p

Really, the best thing we can do is what I have done in the past in places, both on-line and off-line... A civil disobediance... We should all dress in the largest costumes as possible intentally break the rules, or in a more logical sense, we should see what they are enforcing and do an extra 1/2 of it.

Hey, it worked before a couple of times... But it is better than having a full elite cos-player revolt... :thumbsup:


Though it would be entertaining to see a hoard of winged angels and no faces clash with security... :bigtu:

YU-Yu_Ri_Pa-NA
03-29-2004, 09:27 PM
-pats Yumeko on the back- At least you're trying..:/

My costumes don't have anything that sticks out more then 6" away from my body..so I can't complain, nor will I complain..

CapsuleCorp
03-29-2004, 09:29 PM
Thanks Yumeko. Hearing you say "I don't know what the hell he was thinking" actually makes me feel better in some odd way.

It does sound as if they're not going to be very militant about enforcing the rule, but then why have the rule if you can't or won't enforce it apart from eyeballing? They've just riled up a bunch of cosplayers and made for a hostile environment. Not a good way to start the con.

I said my piece anyway. The interesting thing I noticed, Yui's intelligent and honest questions and commentary were completely ignored, but staff responded to the knee-jerk "this blows" posts instead. Hmf.

And it's funny that this blew up so quickly. I was at Anime Detour all weekend, no wonder I didn't notice anything of a controversy before I left!

Ali
03-29-2004, 09:33 PM
Part of me really wants to mock these rules a lot... like making a Cloud with 2'' hair spikes, and a 4' scale version of the sword ("obviously" fake, too)...

I don't know. There are some costumes I've made and I'm bringing 'em, dammit. I think they'll work (mentioned later by sec. person that bows, skirts, soft things will not fall under the 6'' rule... I think... unless I misunderstood)...

Yui
03-29-2004, 09:34 PM
Okay, everybody just stop.
[post self-edited here in retrospect]...[/end edit]

A few points we should keep in mind....they are not forcing us to come to their con. It is their con, and we are -choosing- to attend. They do not understand us as it is, and they're just going to get overly-defensive if we purposefully break their rules. I brought this to everyone's attention so that we could try to form compromises or at least make alternate plans - but *not* attack them.
...however, it is sad that the staffers true personalities seem to become obvious in the face of this incident - and this realization isn't just going to affect cosplayers.

Yui
03-29-2004, 09:43 PM
[edit]In summery, the thread on the ACen board has indeed been locked, the last few posts deleted. [/end edit]

Here is what I said:

Originally posted by Hiei (CapsuleCorp):
"Curious that Yui's questions/comments/concerns have not been directly addressed, while the more knee-jerk posts have been."



I was wondering that as well. Serves me right for being polite...no one notices me then. ^_^;;

What I will say now is that the cosplayers that were intending on coming this year are locked (mostly financially) into coming this time. After this year of regulation change, I'm sure all of us incomprehensible rebels will not return to cause you anymore trouble - instead we shall save up money to travel to cons that -are- cosplay cons (Ohayocon, Anime North, Ani-magic come to mind.)
But for now, the hardcore cosplayers are coming, as they had years before, previously feeling secure that they were welcome. They intend to come, and they shall bring their costumes they have already invested in and planned for and created and field-tested already at many other cons throughout the country. We will gather peacefully in the vicinity of the hotel, but if you do not want to be held liable for us, nor can provide us with an "okay" zone on site, we will find our own way and not involve you in this.


Cosplayers as a whole are capable of being responsible for ourselves, looking out for both our fellow costumers and our families, though I know you, for legal protection, must aim for the lowest common denominator - making "rules for dummies." But you don't have to make excuses. These are your rules and you're unwilling to change them this year. That's fine. It's your con.
It's fine that you don't want to be responsible for us weirdos. Various plans are already in the works as to where and what we cosplayers will actually go and do while the con is happening. At this point, all we are asking for is recommandations as to where we will not endanger anyone. We're not demanding you must cater to our wishes - we just wanted to see if you had an opinion to help us with our plans.


And to any cosplayer who is getting overly enraged over this - calm down and choose: con or cosplay?
If con is your choice, enjoy and try to find one of your costumes that you can wear without worry.
But if you want to cosplay freely...well, look for the squids. ^_-
Since this may the last ACen for a good many loyal attendees, let's leave on a good note and enjoy the weekend.

ParnsAngel
03-29-2004, 10:02 PM
Wow, that was a great post, Yui!
Its sad this has blown up to such proportions...and I cant believe they deleted that very nice, very respectful and polite post of yours.
This shall be an interesting Acen, ne? ^^

CapsuleCorp
03-29-2004, 10:20 PM
They deleted that? DAMN THEM!

You know, I had the most fun last year at ACen of all the cons I went to, and more fun than any con in a while. I don't want this stupidity to ruin what could be another way-fun con, but it's looking like consec is out of touch with the cosplayers. They seem to think cosplayers are a small minority amongst the congoers. I remember last year - that's so not true. There are a LOT of them.

This does not endear me to staff that I previously had zero problem with.

Saeru
03-29-2004, 10:32 PM
Its very upsetting to me to think they would delete that. Just goes to show you how much our oppinions really count to them. *sighs*
So much for the grand plans we had for Acen.
I was really looking forward to a lot, but now I'm worried that we won't be able to do our skit, period, and I'm afraid to ask for any extentions given the recent "trauma."
*sighs* Just as capsulecorp said....
though in slightly different words...
I had a lot of respect for Acen's ability to adapt before this point. Now I am simply saddened. Just as in the case of a few cosplayers "ruining" it for everyone(though in many cases it was ignorance, and not quite a direct fault of the cosplayer), now there are a few staff members doing quite the same thing. I know there are plenty of good people still on staff. I'm sorry they have to suffer for our future rebellions.
I just hate changing my plans last minute.
I hate working so hard on something(like our skit, or a costume), to realize that its going to fail. I hope they realize that is what they're doing to people out there....I really hope they realize how I feel right now.

RoMayDrako
03-29-2004, 10:43 PM
:: dosn't know why she's speaking has rarely ever been herd ::

I respect Acen's rules, but you got to understand last acen SUCKED. Why? Because of so many suprise rules, sexist security gaurds (yes there were some) and they cased cosplayers off the statues just to let a new flock in with out yelling at them.

It's the fact of favortisim, and some of us do not feel respected. And I was around back in the hell of ACEN 1999 WHEN THEY TRIED! Now it seems they slap rules around, and make people paranoid. The Italians there who were there for a party enjoyed the costumes, as did the other convention that was there.

But why didn't we have any food sold to us. Becuase of NON EXSISTANT HOTDOG VENDERS. Yes, no food was sold cause the (censored) labor union.

Now we would be happier, if rules were put forth that made sence. Like yes, the adverage person is six feet, that has no trouble clearing sprinklers. LISTEN to complaints of abuse of props, not hold us all accoutable. And I understand spikes being sharp pointy objects, but most are so flimsy they won't do any damage.

Since 99 I seen a decrease in the quality of acen. 99-01 was fine, from there it just went down. The only reason why I'm going this year is my sister will be there possible and I'm acheing to see her agian.

And there was one BIG threat at acen last year. Me on vicadine. All those who know me understand why Imean by this.

This is a whole bunch of unreasonable BS upon more rules, and you KNOW there will be MORE rules we will not see. Like the whole NO PROPS IN THE DANCE. That was a sudden switch to all. :: sighs ::

Okay since I know no one reads my babbling I"ll shut up. Just venting.

Tiresias
03-29-2004, 10:47 PM
I have to say this and will probably get killed for it. People need to just settle down and deal with this. It has been said that they won't be able to do anything this year to change the rules as they are now. All the whining and complaining is just overshadowing the valid points people were putting up and causing the staff to stick to their rules even tighter.

If people truly wish to get things changed, go to ACEN this year and follow the rules, show the staff that cosplayers can be trusted to behave properly. That way after the con when they are asking for suggestions, we can say "Look, they weren't necessary, we know how to behave!" and then maybe things will change. With the blatant breaking of the rules people are planning on this board just to dare the staff to try and enfore the rules is going to do nothing more than harm our chances of getting some of these rules changed, and make yourselves look like the childish babies you seem to think the con staff is treating us as.

And for those of you planning on daring the staff to take your badges by breaking the rules, they can and will if you give them cause to do so. Things like not complying with orders to take props back to your room or change out of costumes that break their rules. And if you think you can still go on cosplaying even after they take your badge, then they can get the hotel to kick you out for obviously breaking rules put in place by the con that you just got kicked out of.

I don't agree with the rules, but I understand the reasoning behind most of them, so I will abide by them this year. I also understand that no amount of complainng or begging for compromise will change them this year, the amount of bickering on both sides of the fence have solidified those rules greatly. I myself now have to modify my staff for my Xellos cosplay so it fits the 4' rule.

Here's to reason and logic eventually winning out, but not until after ACEN and probably only if everyone behaves and follows the rules.

Saeru
03-29-2004, 10:56 PM
Tiresias: The biggest complaint we have right now is them not properly clarifying their rules, and I for one dont intend on not bringing my Balmung costume. I'm not aiming to run frantically into crowds poking people's eyes out. ^^ But I'd be happy to sit in a corner of the atrium and not move around, and there I won't be hurting anyone.
We respect your opinion, and we don't intend on killing you for what you say...the only complaint I have is your seem rather demanding about it.

The most upsetting thing to me, personally, is that they didn't even -answer- the questions that most of us put to them...
such as WHERE can we cosplay? They talked incessantly of the hotel, but no one answered my question about the con center.
Of course they can't prevent us from cosplaying outside, thats obvious....but I really wanted them to consider that cosplay area set aside just for banned cosplayers.
They barely looked at it twice, when many people suggested it. (Though one staff member did think it was a good idea.)

Yui-I think I'm gonna color that little badge I made after Ohayocon and put "Banned cosplayers union" at the top of it. *amused*

Tiresias
03-29-2004, 11:07 PM
I'm not saying this year's staff hasn't done thing wrong on many occasions. This isn't the first thing to blow up at them recently, one of which was the whole Miyavi fiasco.

Hell, I was even one of the people on their boards fighting to try and get them to move the hallway cosplay rules into a more visible space, rather than keeping them buried in the depths of the Masquerade rules, lets face it there's a lot of cosplayers out there and not all of them read the Masquerade rules. Then they finally put them up in their own thread, mainly due to us "complainers". Yes, certain members of the staff have done things very stupidly, I'm not arguing that they didn't.

What I do disagree with is the whole mentality I'm seeing here in this forum where people are calling for openly breaking the rules, mainly to taunt the staff. We're supposed to be mature adults here, why not act like it and possibly get these rules changed for next year. And yes, they did seem to be ignoring all the valid questions, but like I said there were an awful lot of childish posts that they felt like responding to rather than the important posts, yet another mistake. I don't always agree with the staff, but ultimately they get final say in these matters, and I'd rather not do something that could make things worse.

DaphHime
03-29-2004, 11:35 PM
I agree that taunting the staff isn't the best way to go about this. It will only make matters worse for us cosplayers in the long run. The best advice is just to go along with the rules as best as you can. If they see that the cosplayers are on their best behavior, they might repeal the rules.

Though what bugs me the most is that it seems that the con is graudly moving into the convention center where there is obvously much more space. Yet they impose these rules now? Just seems strange to me.

I just wish that they would clarify the rules abit. For example, diffrent materals have a different impact if bumped into. Obvously something made of hard plastic is going to do more damage that something made of foam. My Excel sholderpads are going to be made of foam and they won't do any damage even if you wanted them to.

RoMayDrako
03-29-2004, 11:36 PM
Look, people wouldn't blow up, if we didn't feel like caged dogs as is. Were gonna bite back cause we dont' know where the door is with all the rules poping up. And if your going to close the walls more, yes, some people are gonna bite back. Some people are gonna tear into them like rotwielers on a peice of steak just to find out where the door is.

Anyone can agree, the walls have been closing in more and more and more, and we rarely know ALL the rules till they are broken. Is this gonna just turn into other cons cosplayers dread. What happened to cool ACEN? What happened to laying out the rules before hand?

That is all us cosplayers are trying to say in our rantings. Were cornered, they keep cornering us more, and more things will be layed upon us once we arrive.

XJhideSB
03-29-2004, 11:38 PM
My plans for enjoying the weekend: Kick as many ACen staff members as I can in the nuts while wearing costumes that have stuff that comes out over 6".

On another note, I had a really good idea. I think everyone should make the following prop and carry it with you at all times. A 3' 11" x 3' 11" x 3' 11" box. It not's over 4 feet, so they can't do anything about it. Let's see how they like that!

YU-Yu_Ri_Pa-NA
03-29-2004, 11:55 PM
People, it's just rules! Without rules, all Hell'd break loose and there would be nothing left!

8,000+ people crammed into a hotel(yeah, some people will be outside but you get the drift)..if anyone has anything more then 6" out, someone is going to lose an eyeball and there's gonna be lawyers all over ACen+Hyatt staff..then there might never be an ACen again!

If you have a big prop/weapon, make it so you can take it apart to abide the rules, and when taking pictures, put it back together? I'm sure that would be fine..

I dunno..I'm just trying to make things better >< ..it's obvious I'm not good at doing so x.x

RoMayDrako
03-30-2004, 12:04 AM
Cant' soothe pent up fustration. Most of it I bet comes from people who have long term gone to acen. And don't see a equaling out of the choas of rules. All poeple going ask Yu-Yu ri Pa-Na is for acen and the hotel to get together MAKE all the rules, and quite switching constantly on us. We all know this won't be the last, and next acen will be worse.

Acen used to be fun, they'd try to make a good thing out of a bad situation. Now they refuse to answer pasific questions people may have. And yes this is panicing for some people. Cause ACEN used to be the biggest con without a hell lot of rules. Now second and thrid year at this hotel, were being strangle held. Scary to think of hte rules they'll think of next year.

How many people who have gone to acen fear next years rules?

HEDGESMFG
03-30-2004, 12:11 AM
Would it be possible for ACEN to move entirely into the Rosemont center? There are enough hotels around that it would still be quite close to wherever people would wish to stay (and hopefully wherever the con could work out a hotel package with) Sure the walk between the Hyatt and the Dealers room was annoying, but remember that at a con like Otakon, even a close hotel can be about 3 blocks away.


So it would be livable if they could get some good facilities.


But I guess that must be somewhat pricey to do. :/

Maryssa
03-30-2004, 12:43 AM
Well i certainly hope that they wake up to reality and hold the convention in a larger facility next year. I really cannot understand why they insisted on cramming a great deal more people than last year into the same hotel. It's stupid to inconvenience the congoers with these rules just because they crammed.

KragShot
03-30-2004, 01:00 AM
Okay, good people. I've read your concerns (and your some of the rather rude commentary as well) and I'm hoping that I can lend voice to answer some of your problems.

I'm Beryl Turner, Coordinator of Anime Central's Security Division and retired cosplayer (or costumer as we used to call ourselves).

Okay, let's start from the top.

Large Props: The three biggest reasons for that rule came from last year's con.

1) There was a problem with several people having to see our EMTs due to having gotten scraped by protruding costume parts or getting poked by large costume props, and two people had gotten poked in the eye by some wayward wings. With the significant number of people who attend the con, this has become a safety issue of no small concern.

2) There are several areas in the hotel that have low (under 7 feet) ceilings. With the current sprinkler configuration that the Hyatt has, the heads are very sensitive. If they break, they will flood that entire section and effectively shut that area down. This was at the hotel's urging that we instituted this rule.

3) Because some idiots can't show consideration to their fellow fans and have to have mock sword fights in their costume skits in the hallway. Several of these caused no end to problems with some attendees and the hotel. In addition, there are just some people who are goof-offs and they make it bad for everyone.


Now, just for the record, allow me to post the regulations for costumes from the Security Division section of the program book.

Cos-play:
Anime Central encourages you to engage in cosplay as you see fit. However,
when you make your costuming choice, think about the following four things
and then choose a costume that will highlight your creativity, yet not cause
Security Division or other ACen staffers to have to stop you in the hallway,
if your costume violates the following four rules:

1) A costume cannot contain any lewd or vulgar remarks- in any language.

2) The costume has to conform to local laws regarding obsenity or indecent exposure:

3) The cosplayer cannot use any realistic weapon props (see weapons and prohibited items).

4) Any costume/costume props cannot be more than 4' in height (see weapons and prohibited items) and cannot have any potentially harmful protrusions (i.e. spikes, sharp edges, etc...).

If an issue comes up with your costume, and it violates any of the four items listed above, you will be asked to retire to your room (or appropriate place) and either alter or remove your costume.

Nobody at Anime Central is trying to hinder the creativity of cosplayers. Heck, we love you all, each and every one! However, we have to take the safety and well-being of every attendee, cosplayer or not, into consideration.

Now, regarding photo opportunities for hall cosplayers, the idea here is that we are trying to keep hall traffic blockage to a minimum. As we speak, we are looking at several locations inside the hotel and the convention center, where cosplayers and photographers can both gather and have at it, but at the same time, not cause serious blockages in the hall.

There were several instances where photographers and cosplayers had blocked a major access point when they stopped for a shot. The one situation that kind of forced our hand in this decision was during an emergency. A young girl (also a cosplayer) had went into diabetic shock. Our in-house EMTs were doing what they could, but we were waiting for Rosemont paramedics to make it to the hotel. When they arrived, we tried to clear the area by the large statue/sculpture to get the gurney and the paramedics through. Several photographers and cosplayers were hesitant in moving out of the way and one guy outright refused to move until he had gotten all of his pictures.

I will admit that I got a little forceful with that individual, but being a diabetic myself, I knew what the girl was going through. I wasn't going to let anyone suffer like that for the sake of a damned picture. I apologized to the crowd later, but in a situation like that, we couldn't afford a bottleneck like that, neither then or in the future.

We do not intend upon being intolerant here, but we do have to look at the larger scope of the problem. Please try to look at it from our point of view.

In closing, all that I ask you all is to please show some tolerance with our regulations. If things work out, we may work on loosening some of them or finding a compromise that will satisfy our safety concerns, the hotel's property concerns and your costuming concerns.

Sincerely,
Beryl J. Turner III
Coordinator, Security Division
Anime Central

Yui
03-30-2004, 01:08 AM
Attendance caps, cosplay zones, multiple hotel spreading - these all work very well at other cons and I just don't know why ACen felt so trapped that they had no other options. This location is really too expensive for the problems it causes. Really, I think the cons that are either out in the middle of nowhere or that are -not- at one central hotel are the most sucessful as far as traffic goes. How is it that larger cons don't even have much in the way of hallway regulations?

Well, whether ACen seems secure and validated behind their reasoning, and convinced they can physically uphold their decree - we have to remember this is their con, their space and thus their rules. They might be vague, arbitrary or not fair, but it's their call if they want to be that way.
So for this year, instead of futilely taunting them, I think we can make a better case for our side by having our parallel actitivites where they can see it but not do anything about it. Don't bash ACen, whether it deserves to be bashed or not. We can still have fun without them.

(Eh, btw Saeru, I'm unsure I want to do the masquerade now myself. Even if they do allow us to preform the intended skit, I think I might feel....er, "dirty" about it. I don't think this con deserves the message of the piece. I have a feeling the masq entries may be low this year.)

Saeru
03-30-2004, 01:13 AM
To add to what Beryl said above, I had a talk with the asst. head of security tonight, and he clarified EXTREMELY a lot of the rules. They're not nearly as bad as I had first thought. If you're on this thread, I HIGHLY encourage you to go here:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/saeru/

Since I posted the whole conversation in my livejournal. It covers JUST about every item that has been mentioned so far in this costume thread(including what items-specifically- they'll allow and what they won't.) Also, for those items they -don't- want wandering around, as Beryl said, they're setting up photoshoots for us for.

Not only does it clarify specific costume peices, but it gives even more detailed reasoning behind why they're doing things, and it also mentions people's posts that didn't get addressed in the convention forum.
(although it doesnt mention why they closed that forum. e.e)

Saeru
03-30-2004, 01:17 AM
(Eh, btw Saeru, I'm unsure I want to do the masquerade now myself. Even if they do allow us to preform the intended skit, I think I might feel....er, "dirty" about it. I don't think this con deserves the message of the piece. I have a feeling the masq entries may be low this year.)

I know what you mean. ;_;
I just feel so terrible since we put so much effort into it already. We'll have to do it somewhere....
;_; Leave me some hope.

Yui
03-30-2004, 01:19 AM
Thank you, KragShot. That was more of a reply we had been looking for.
I apologize myself for inadvertantly riling up so many people...but well, better pointing this out beforehand rather than people get suddenly defensive at the con.

Well, as I said, you don't need to validate yourselves (but I'm really glad you've brought up the specific instances as examples.) Undoubtedly, with awareness raised on both sides here, cosplayers are not only going to be looking out for fair treatment of fellow cosplayers, but that they will be just as intolerant of needless harassment of staffers as you are. And I promise we -will- stay out of the way.

Yui
03-30-2004, 01:33 AM
Since I posted the whole conversation in my livejournal. It covers JUST about every item that has been mentioned so far in this costume thread(including what items-specifically- they'll allow and what they won't.)

....and appearantly how I think certain people are "buttheads" (I wasn't quite -that- prolific.) XD
Well, it was out of shock, and I'm willing to forgive everyone if they're willing to work with us. I just get instantly defensive for everyone's sake when posts are written in caps. O_o;

Thanx for the reports, Saeru. I'll be able to sleep better.

Saeru
03-30-2004, 01:36 AM
....and appearantly how I think certain people are "buttheads" (I wasn't quite -that- prolific.) XD
I was amused by that one too. *grins*
But I think that everything that we've said we had justification in saying at the time that we said it.
And they heard our complaints, and they addressed them to the best of their abilities. So for now I'm satisfied.
Hakuryuu can come to the con after all.

Ayaka
03-30-2004, 03:07 AM
My final post was also deleted, for whatever reason, from the ACen forums. That's unimportant though, since the content of it was addressed in the final post before the thread was closed - that clarification of the rules not only be made, but made as visible as possible.

I said that for those who do not feel like slogging through the entire discussion at the ACen forums, I will post some of the clarifications which were made by staff members in that thread.

Rule #1, 4' props -

"about 4 feet. We may be accurate, we might not be. What we are looking for are any props that could be considered a hazard to those around you. If it sticks out as a danger, we will call you on it." (DJOPM, Security staff)

Rule #2, on photos and hallway congestion -

"We are investigating providing designated photo opportunity areas so that this will not be a problem. Otherwise, use common sense. Don't block the halls and don't congest areas like the main lobby." (DJOPM, Security staff)

Rule #3, 6" rule -

I can't agree with this more, but you have to realize that we don't mean vertically. We mean horizontally. This does not include when you have an arm or leg extended, as things (like kimono sleeves) will drape longer than that. Pantslegs may drape longer than that. The fact about this issue is that anything that you wear that hangs vertically will be a victim of gravity and will most likely cling to your body. We don't mean that at all, and will not pull your coattails for that." (DJOPM, Security staff)

"Now, to apply the 6" rule:
Height: 7'(+6" fro mthe top of the head, "6" fro mthe bottom of the feet)
Width: 3'(+6" out from each shoulder)
Length: 2.5'(+6" from front and back)
Space Requirement: 52.5 cubic feet" (Jazhed, Masq DH)

"After having talked with Jazz about the guidelines, I truly believe that the spirit of the 6" rule is directed at rigid or trailing materials. For example, a long train on a skirt, a pair of wooden or cardboard wings, stiff, spikey hair, etc. Clothing or costume materials that flow naturally around the body of the wearer are not what is being addressed." (RileyBear - ACen staff)

Fluffy skirts - "In a case like this, it is normal for skits to 'poof' out. As long as there are no hard pieces/wires within the material to force it to 'poof' out, they shouldn't be a problem."

Spikes - "I hate to say this, but if you're wearing, say, a helmet with spikes or horns on it, you can injure somebody with it - especially if you're horsing around and manage to collide with somebody in a crowd. The same thing goes for vertical spikes, since there's no guarantee that you'll be able to determine which direction that spike will be pointing if you slip, fall or accidentally run into somebody walking into your path by accident." (DJOPM, Security staff)

There is further info on Saeru's LJ, as she has mentioned. I think those were the major posts by staff.

Here is the 6" rule as I UNDERSTAND IT after these clarifications. I AM NOT ACEN STAFF, but since we're all riled up still, I think trying to clear up some of the confusion is a good idea. Definitely check with the staff if you have specific questions, and hopefully the clarification will confirm or deny this.

The impression that I have gotten from staff is that the concern is about HARD costume pieces which extend more than 6". This would include armor, wings, and hard wigs. Wired items like hoop skirts, it sounds like, must meet the 6" rule as well. Soft fabric, petticoats, and dress trains kept off the floor when not taking photos are okay. So you're not going to get in trouble with oversized shoulderpads, your EGL dress, or your kimono sleeves. If it hangs from your body in a normal way and will bend/brush past if it strikes something, I think you're all right.

So the rule is, to me, not as unreasonable as it first sounded. The concern is about hard objects projecting from your costume which might injure others in a crowded hallway.

Personally, though I wish that we could somehow have arrived at this type of resolution in quicker and less unattractive fashion . . . I do NOT think that further harassing the staff is a good answer. The reply they have given us is that they'll clarify the rule more so that we know what is and is not okay. They will not make the con a police state, and if you are being responsible about your cosplay they will not be harassing you. At least some of our concerns and suggestions did get through, and I think we should continue to talk about that - but for NEXT year. It's not reasonable to ask them to make changes this quickly, but that doesn't mean they're unwilling to consider them, and it will be better to be seen as trying to be helpful in that regard than as antagonistic.

For now I think it's time to relax and try to look forward to the con. ^^

XJhideSB
03-30-2004, 02:22 PM
I appreciate you responding to our concerns Kragshot. I hope you understand why all of us were so upset though. It wasn't because we just flat out didn't like the rules. It was because the rest of the people on ACen staff just wanted to give us smart ass remarks whenever we had a question. It is very upsetting when you are paying for someone's services, yet the people who run it don't even have the common decency to acknowledge their customers concerns.

Hoshikuzu
03-30-2004, 02:49 PM
I too totally understand the hallway photo rule. Sometimes the hallways do get so crowded its dangerous. I went to Wizard Con last year at this same hotel and for those of us who were in costume it seemed to work well to take the pics in the "lobby" area of the convention center just outside the dealers room. Its a large area with little traffic and everyone can fit safely. So maybe if peeps are planning indoor photoshoots that would be a good place to start. I also am seeing the fear of doing the masquerade due to all the rules. Because of the schedualed meetings and such the con has required some of the cosplayers feel a bit overwelmed. That and there were many problems last year that I wont get into...all I will say is it has a caused a lot of people to never want to participate in the masq again. If you perform in masqs for the sake of entertaining and performing then the Acen masq will still be wonderful. However, if you perform for awards be warned that it is strict competition with lotsa rules. Be sure to check the rules throughly before you sign up, you dont wanna show up at sign in time and have them disqualify your skit for some unknown reason. Be prepared in all areas and ready to do some negotiating. Remember to stay calm and dont blow up at the staff members they are just doing their job. If everyone can remain civil things should work out ok.

CapsuleCorp
03-30-2004, 09:41 PM
Yes, many thanks to Beryl for coming all the way over here to address some of our more pressing concerns. Mostly. Still doesn't explain deleting Yui and Ayaka's posts. They are coherent, intelligent posters.

Tiriesas - we are here to RANT. We need to get things off our chests. Can we do that, please? We're not here to stir up rebellion or anything. We just wanted to vent. Is all good now, I think. I'm still in the process of reading Saeru's lj post. For the most part, the overzealous types around here are hopefully joking. If they aren't, they should know that the rest of us aren't going in for those kinds of shenanigans either.

Anyway. I do find it very odd that ACen is wigging over 8000 people in this Hyatt, when DragonCon crams 20-22,000 people annually in their Hyatt in Atlanta, which is just as poorly designed, and not only do they NOT have cosplay rules apart from a weapons policy, they and the hotel stupidly encourage masses of people to hang around and show off their costumes every evening. (and then have the nerve to get annoyed when the crowds become too large to handle...if they'd just stop selling alcohol in the lobby to the gathering crowds...)

If people last year were injured, that's certainly a bad thing. But I think there are better ways of preventing that than enacting a rule that was so poorly defined and written that it made a lot of us freak out for a bit there. For next year, there ought to be a lot more clarification of just what they don't want people to do so as not to injure people in the crowds. And setting up cosplay photo zones that are not in the lower lobby of the Hyatt nor that narrow hallway leading to the ballrooms will help immensely - keep the traffic flow out of those areas that are so non-conducive to crowds, shift the crowd to better areas, and you won't have to worry whether someone sticks out 6" from themselves.

bunnybeth
03-31-2004, 03:03 PM
Saeru I can't load livejournals on my server (no idea why) so I was just wondering what it said? Anything new not covered here or in the now-closed ACen thread?

Speaking of location issues, am I the only one who finds the parking ABSOLOUTLEY REDICULOUS? Ten dollars a pop, no in and out priviledges. Yikes. As someone who hates hotel restaurants and cannot exsist on ramen alone, we found ourselves parking at the bus station and pretending to take a bus, craftily avoiding the bus station police...I'll be relived when they move to a less expensive area. (though I will miss the leaning tower of pisa replica down the road, that was a suprise)

There should be in and out privledges. I haven't had problems with that the last couple of years... although I have had Hyatt problems, but that's another can of worms. The leaning tower of pizza cracks me up... :p

Saeru
04-01-2004, 12:39 AM
To sum it up...
Bring whatever you want, or whatever you were going to.
The 6" rule applies to hard or spiky things...not things like cat-tails or skirts or wigs(unless your wigs are as spiky as Yui's.) And if you DO have something that is hard and spiky and you still want to wear it, there will likely be designated photo locations you can go that are out of the way.
The 4' rule is slightly flexible as well...

KragShot
04-01-2004, 02:39 AM
Speaking of location issues, am I the only one who finds the parking ABSOLOUTLEY REDICULOUS? Ten dollars a pop, no in and out priviledges. Yikes. As someone who hates hotel restaurants and cannot exsist on ramen alone, we found ourselves parking at the bus station and pretending to take a bus, craftily avoiding the bus station police...I'll be relived when they move to a less expensive area. (though I will miss the leaning tower of pisa replica down the road, that was a suprise)

Hey Anya, let me clue you in on a tip. The Bus/Train station parking lot is what's called a "kiss and ride." Still, here's the tip. As long as somebody walks down to that lot and places $1.50 (if it still costs that much) into that box, you can park there for the whole con. However, I also suggest that when you go and renew the money, you also move your car to another space, if possible.

Nevertheless, the con can't do much about the parking lot costs. However, if you can live on mickey d's, there's one right up the street. Here's another tip: even if you live in Chicagoland, once you are in the hotel, that doesn't mean that you can't leave it. Change into street clothes and take the "El Train" somewhere. I know several places that serve good food that are right off of the train stop.


Obviously its your perrogative as a performer and a costumer as to where you would like to perform your skit, but isnt the point of costuming to entertain and delight? The security staff wont be the ones in the audience, there'll be a small hoarde of con goers who may be subjected to a godawful masquerade if carefuly planned and actualy thought out performances are nixed. Sort of a cutting off of the nose to spite the face (g*d I love using that phrase in conversation...even if it makes little sense)

Actually, there will be quite a few of us either in the audience or working with the Masquerade staff, helping them on and off stage, and we love a good performance as well as any other con attendee.

Just for the record, we (Security Division) have no control over what happens during the actual masquerade. That is Issac Sher and Jason "Jazz" Jensen's call. But allow me to make some sort of a suggestion. You can make your costume nearly as elaborate as you wish as long as it's worn only during the performance or in the masquerade room. There have been costumes in the masquerade that take up much more room than the 6" listed.

You just don't wear it while walking in the halls.

Practice your skits and make them the best they can be.

Save it all for the stage!

Beryl Turner

KragShot
04-01-2004, 03:00 AM
You all know something?

I've worked bigger cons than this. I've worked at Wizard World, GENCON, Origins, ICON (New York), Dragon*Con, and many more.

Honestly, and off the record...I would prefer if ACen moved out of Rosemont, IL. The city is far too restrictive for a convention event. However, it's the only area that can accomodate even a crowd of ACen's stature and motivation. Wizard World Chicago brings in more people, but it also ends by 8:00PM each night at the latest.

There has been talk about scheduling some more daytime events in the Stevens Convention Center, but right now, that's all it is...talk.

All that I'm trying to say is that, while I can't speak for every department in ACen, I can say that as a whole, the Convention is there for the attendees and your enjoyment and welfare are considered in every decision that is made.

All that SecDiv is concerned with is the safety in the halls. You'll have to talk to Jazz Jensen and Issac Sher about what happens on the stage.

Good luck and good cosplaying!

Beryl Turner

<<Who, along with 8 friends at Dragon*Con were dressed as a squad of United States Colonial Marines (Aliens). The costumes were so realistic, they were pinned down and detained by the Atlanta PD SWAT Team for 15 min and would have missed the masquerade, if it wasn't for those same officers escorting them into the hotel and the ballroom. Oh yes, they won the whole thing. Had this happened today, they might have been shot, but surely arrested. Food for thought.>>

Armorfiend
04-01-2004, 04:17 AM
EDIT to reflect confusion:

Why has the world 'c05play' / 'c05tume' / etc. been replaced with various forms of the word Lumber?

(I know it's off-topic, but I had my say already on the topic...)

AllStarAlice
04-01-2004, 02:29 PM
Yes it's an April Fool's joke and it's hilarious as hell hahahaha :p

Armorfiend
04-02-2004, 04:24 AM
Yes it's an April Fool's joke and it's hilarious as hell hahahaha :p

Ah. So noted.

BitterBeing
04-27-2004, 07:50 PM
Wow. Late post.

Hi, guys, I'm the infamous "asshole who knocked everything over in his box" (I'm sure at least one person probably thinks this). I didn't knock anything over. Oo; Honest to god. And I -could- see. If the box that I used last year still existed, then I'd take pictures, and show you how big the eyeport was, well big enough that you could see more than half of my face in it. I've been wrongfully accused, and blah.. the rules piss me off. Ask around, the box helps make the cosplay (I cosplay Solid Snake. oops.), and well, my cosplay's more or less been murdered due to the whole "nothing-that-deters-from-full-range-of-vision" rule. eh.. just wanted to clear things up. I didn't bring havoc and let loose the dogs of war like they so aptly put it. And I most certainly didn't get in anyone's way. (Maybe once or twice, that was it) With the box on, it only got about 3 inches away from me on my sides, and not too far away from me front-and-back.

I think the rules are crappy. One guy (who was a very rude staffer) asked me to remove the box "before they did it for me" last year, so I got rather irked, went to security (with a couple other disappointed people trailing behind), and they ok'ed it.. enough said.

I dunno. Sorry that I've ruined it for so many people.

ParnsAngel
04-27-2004, 08:16 PM
Hey its Box Snake! You were cool dude, its sad there's been such a big to-do raised!
I was Chii on Sunday, talked to ya on the statue thing for a bit. Rock on. *lol*

R1KKu
04-27-2004, 09:01 PM
I saw nothing wrong with the box. I thought it rocked. You should bring it back just to spite security. hehe.

Dany
04-27-2004, 09:03 PM
1. Handheld props cannot be more than four(4) feet in length. This does not mean that it cannot be assembled to form the proper sized for photo opportunities.

OK, who else believes that they are going to want to disassemble/reassemble their props every time they turn around? I'm not particularly worried about the size of the prop so much as the nusiance it would be to take it apart, put it together, then take it apart..repeat repeat repeat.

2. For photo opportunities, please move to a low traffic zone(out of the hallways) or outside.

This I can understand. If you're in a place that a lot of people are walking, you're going to block the traffic flow, and it makes people cranky. I try to do this out of sheer habit no matter where I go. Keeps me from being trampled and others from being annoyed.

3. Costumes are not to extend more than six inches(6") from the wearer in any/all directions.

My cloak for Lucius swirls around me further than that when I turn around quickly. That's a little on the silly side. Liking the designated area for the "big" costumes here.


4. The cosplayer must have clear line of sight while wearing their costume at all times. Being only able to see through a tiny eye slot does NOT constitute clear line of sight.

There are costumes out there that have larger "clear lines of sight" than are apparent..because of use of one-way fabric, etc. And if someone was to so much as think to make that blind fellow get rid of his cane? I think the magic words "Americans with Disabilities Act" will scare them properly away. ;) Not that I think anyone would be that crude.

5. Be constantly aware of your environment. If you break a piece of furniture, deface the facilities, set off the fire sprinklers, or cause any other damages, then you will pay to replace or repair the damage caused.

Very much a no-brainer. Respect of your environment and all, no matter what the size. If you're going to have large "parts", then you should be mindful to keep them from getting minds of their own.

Wow. That sounds dirty.


6. 'Live Steel' cannot be carried. Any sort of 'blade' must be obviously fake and properly cleared with security.

Again, no brainer. Yes, a real blade is cool, but if you have no clue what you are doing, you can hurt someone. Even if you DO know what your doing, someone stupid could get injured anyway by running into you or something. Just a Bad Idea all around.


7. There will be no skits performed in the hallway.

Hallway, no. Parking lot, yes!

OK, that was a bit off, but hey, it specified hallway, not anywhere else....


8. Security is given final say in these matters. If you opt to break these rules, you will be at the whims of Security. May God/Goddess/Deity of Choice/ect. have mercy upon your soul for they shalt not have it.


The "cute" rule. It seems a lot of rule books have at least one. Just like having the "There is no number 4" rule or whatever.

tohru_tohru
04-27-2004, 11:16 PM
7. There will be no skits performed in the hallway.
Hallway, no. Parking lot, yes!
OK, that was a bit off, but hey, it specified hallway, not anywhere else...Mmm, maybe they could rent out another room or area in the center that could be used exclusively for impromptu skits ^^

But that might be asking for too much.

Bobbi
04-27-2004, 11:24 PM
I read that the 6" rule only applies to things that are soft and non-colapseable (like big wings, huge spikes, etc) Petticoats, hoop skirts and the like don't fall under that category. I heard that all of this came from an incident last year because paremedics couldn't get to someone because the cosplayer didn't have a clear line of sight and couldn't see there were paremedics coming. I didn't go last year, but that's what I've been told. So I don't think you should worry about wigs, hair, bows, petticoats, ears, etc.

Yui
04-27-2004, 11:26 PM
Oh this got revived.
Hi, Mr. Snake in the Box. We don't hate you. And your costume was very appreciated, so don't feel like you've ruined it for everyone. So don't be the scapegoat. Acen is a community - it is not just the staff, it is not just the cosplayers....it is everyone there interacting and everyone involved that invites either ruin or good fortune to befall the con. It is how we can get along and hopefully respect each other.

Rule #8 is in incredible bad form, and those choice of words have perhaps set the stage for an unwelcoming, offensive starting point. We don't need to be threatened and then -reminded- that we are threatened. But that does not mean we should lash out immaturely in turn. If anybody does anything to "spite" anyone, you will not be supported by fellow cosplayers. We're going to do our own thing and stay out of the way, so no one should feel the need to prod the limits of security's already touchy trigger-fingers.

Also, the rules have been clarified on ACen's forums and 80% of questionable costumes are cleared as "ok." However, if you are still in doubt about any aspect, be sure to e-mail them ahead of time.

DaphHime
04-28-2004, 12:25 AM
Hey! I liked the "Snake in the box" costume. It was a very intresting take on Snake and I reconsed you even though I've never played the games in my life. Watched someone play them though so I guess that counts. It's not enitrely your fult. Many other factors played into that. The space and expected number of guests are the main factors I figuer.

For some reason, I don't really like the idea of an area desginated for big costumes. Makes me feel as if we're (or they're, since I might not fall into that catagory depending on how big my sholder pads turn out to be) being hurded like cattle. That's just the impression I got.

The skit thing confuses me just a bit. Sometimes just poseing for a picuter could be mistaken for preforming a skit depending on how you pose and how many people are poseing.

BitterBeing
04-28-2004, 03:57 AM
Still, it's very unprofessional to point fingers at me since I was the only Solid Snake there (that anyone would remember anyway, pretty sure I was the only one there...) with some (really not) giant cardboard box of death, which is, in fact.. not really that large. Obviously people are pissed, and even moreso since they know whodunnit. Seriously, I got about three pages into the thread over at the ACEN forums before feeling like a giant shithead that was responsible for everything, when I didn't even do anything. And I can't even defend myself, because the thread is locked.

However, I did send a polite PM to 'Jazz', and we'll see what comes out of that.

I don't believe I'll be going to ACEN now. I am not a traffic block of any sort. Getting around me is not a problem. I'm terribly sorry that I kept a few staffers from getting to the hentai room. I kid, I kid, AM I RITE GUYS? lollololz. okay. I'm done for the night.

R1KKu
04-28-2004, 10:08 AM
Aww, no! That shouldnt stop you from going. I mean, the box wasnt that big, I dont see how it couldve caused a problem.

I remember all those 10ft wing spans flapping around the halls. Some girl had a giant hoop skirt that she could barely walk in. Then comes those humongous props that everyone swings around. Talk about problem.

The staff is expecting thousands more from last year. That's mostly likely why the rule was put into effect, because the hotel hallways arent wide enough to handle such an amount of people. I dont see how it could solely be your fault. Sure, they had mentioned you in one of the Acen threads as an example(Id get mad too), but that shouldnt stop you from going.=D

Hoshikuzu
04-28-2004, 01:10 PM
aw people can we leave the staff alone?> We cant change the rules now. Lets just go to acen, see how it goes, and then voice our opinions after we've had the experience. We'll have much better evidence and arguments that way.

Rydain
05-10-2004, 01:48 AM
Does anybody know exactly what Chicago indecent exposure laws state, especially with regard to butt coverage? Is pretty much any sort of swimsuit, leotard, or bikini bottom OK as long as it covers all of your naughty bits? I'd assume that you'd have to wear tights under a thong, but the bottom of my costume seems to fall within a grey area. It covers about the inner half of my butt, which is noticeably skimpier than the average bikini bottom (but it won't expose anything if it crawls up a bit), and that story about staff members getting anal (no pun intended) about Yuna's costume (which I didn't think was skimpy at all) has me worried.

R1KKu
05-10-2004, 02:17 AM
I dont think Chicago has a very strict law about it, but I could be wrong. If your bottoms cover the same as a regular bathing suit do, I dont see why it would be a problem. I remember last year, there was a girl walking around with some small undies or something on, It was pretty revealing, and I dont recall her getting in any trouble for it. As long as its not a thong you should be ok.

Rydain
05-10-2004, 08:32 AM
Cool. :) I've been vacillating on the issue of tights because I didn't have time to sew and paint the leggings that I'd originally planned to bring. I could wear them without looking doofy (the sash will hide the waistband), but the overall look of the costume would be more accurate bare-legged. I suppose I can bring a pair just in case someone gets cranky with me - some friends are staying in the Hyatt, so I could just go to their room to change.

ZiggyB
05-10-2004, 03:42 PM
It's not the city indecent exposure laws you need to worry about. Since you are going on private properly (the hotel/convention center) you need to follow the rules that THEY set. If you are unsure about what they are or what's allowed, please go to the ACen web site and contact them.

Their security and/or cosplay people will know how to answer you question about your costume.

A DDR LeGend
05-10-2004, 06:47 PM
Still, it's very unprofessional to point fingers at me since I was the only Solid Snake there (that anyone would remember anyway, pretty sure I was the only one there...) with some (really not) giant cardboard box of death, which is, in fact.. not really that large. Obviously people are pissed, and even moreso since they know whodunnit. Seriously, I got about three pages into the thread over at the ACEN forums before feeling like a giant shithead that was responsible for everything, when I didn't even do anything. And I can't even defend myself, because the thread is locked.

However, I did send a polite PM to 'Jazz', and we'll see what comes out of that.

I don't believe I'll be going to ACEN now. I am not a traffic block of any sort. Getting around me is not a problem. I'm terribly sorry that I kept a few staffers from getting to the hentai room. I kid, I kid, AM I RITE GUYS? lollololz. okay. I'm done for the night.

Um, dude.

First of all, again, no one is accusing you specifically. Secondly, i understand you feeling like your blamed, but you are taking this totally out of context and trying to garner sympathy based on it.

I did see your little act last year, it was funny. you had one soldier running around and you randomly choked / dragged him. But i think you can do it without the box. It would be just as funny. As far as the rules go, if you want to take around the box with you, that's fine. if you want to duck into the box to take pictures, that's fine. what you can't do is walk around the halls in the box. Is that so bad?

no one has your picture or your name / cosplay in security. i think they would have more of a reason to put 'towel rei's' pic up there. but they don't have hers, nor do they have yours. So, i challenge you to come to ACen. If you stilll think everyone hates you, I don't, and I can escort you personally to see all the people that put ACen together for you to see that we're not out to get you.

But i will tell you this, and i applaud the cp.c community for this, harassing the staff and being defiant and what not will not get what you want. if you plan on not coming to ACen, you'll be one of the few people letting something trivial stop you from having a good time. But again, I'm availiable pre-con and during con for any questions and concerns you have, so long as you treat me with respect.

-CCWill

BlitzballMstr
05-11-2004, 04:03 AM
It's not the city indecent exposure laws you need to worry about. Since you are going on private properly (the hotel/convention center) you need to follow the rules that THEY set. If you are unsure about what they are or what's allowed, please go to the ACen web site and contact them.

Their security and/or cosplay people will know how to answer you question about your costume.


Usually they set a rule that states: the costume is acceptable as long as it meets the local exposure laws which is funny because its never ending cycle of laws though they say try and keep it PG 13 which helps somewhat..do I even have to mention the words Towel and Rei lol that was good for a flame war on the mailing list ^^

Rydain
05-11-2004, 10:16 AM
Usually they set a rule that states: the costume is acceptable as long as it meets the local exposure laws which is funny because its never ending cycle of laws though they say try and keep it PG 13 which helps somewhat..do I even have to mention the words Towel and Rei lol that was good for a flame war on the mailing list ^^

That's true, but sometimes the venues are really strict. I heard that one of the Katsucons didn't allow bare midriffs or short shorts because of the hotel's rules. Thus, as per Ziggy's suggestion, I emailed the info addy on the ACen website and got a response from a staffer, who told me that the costume would have to be cleared with security. (He also said that he would personally be a little leery of the costume due to the crowds, but my husband (who is 6'3" and built like an ogre) should be a pretty effective deterrent to any ne'er-do-wells, and I'm no cream puff myself. :p) Methinks me shall skip the entire mess and just go get some tights and deal with having a seam up my back. :)

ZiggyB
05-11-2004, 02:44 PM
Yah, it's really confusing sometimes. X-/ Some hotels don't allow bathing suits unless you are at or going to the pool.

But anyway, thanks for letting us know what happened and yah, tights suck for accuracy (and hell, I'm a guy, I like seeing bare skin) ;-) but if you want to wear the costume, that seems to be the safe bet.

If nothing else, you can wear it outside to get photos and stuff and if you want to wander inside the hotel go with tights. Though I hear it might be raining this weekend. :(