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marsie
01-18-2005, 02:45 PM
As a member of the Live Events staff we need to know what panels you want to see. I have seen a lot of comments that we didn't have enough variety and not much in the panels interested you.

What we need to make next years con just as great, is for you to give SOLID ideas on what to have for programing. If you liked a particular person or panel. Please do so here.


Melissa(the Live Events head girl) and I are reading this and we will do our best to make sure that you get the panels and information that you want to see!


I'll start out:

People:
Jan Scott Fraizer *hugs and kisses* So great!


Panels:
Religion, Myth's and Magicalness (with the staff we had it was well done later)
Japanese Horror (You all rocked! It made the panel go so smoothly)

Bobbi
01-18-2005, 02:54 PM
I was too busy taking photos of cosplayers, so I didn't really get the chance to attend any panels... I never do. O_o;;

Anyway, I'd really like to have a Cosplus panel next year. It would be a panel about costume design and choices for people who wear bigger sizes... since the information about that isn't as widely availble.

marsie
01-18-2005, 03:10 PM
*hugs* I was hoping you would ask to do one!

You are wonderful!

KnuxieChan
01-18-2005, 03:12 PM
The only thing that bothered me about the con was the timing. Please, PLEASE, next year.. don't have it with a Christian convention. I HATE big crowds (of normal people), and this couple actually tried to force their religion onto me. My parents were ticked off.

Oh, and the cosplay practice. Don't make it for 10PM in the morning. That nearly killed me.

As far as panels.. I didn't have enough time to go to any. I was gonna go and see Scott McNeil.. but his line was WAAYY too long, so I left.

Bobbi
01-18-2005, 03:44 PM
Yay! I'd love to do a panel! I hope I'll get the chance to do another one before then. ^_^

Yeah they had the Christian convention the same time last year, I think. Meh... Some of them were really cool... but the ones who were being dumb and forcing themselves on everyone or saying we were "heathens" or "cult members" was ruining their purpose for being there. It's like... if you want to lead people to Christianity, be nice and friendly about it, and don't force it down ppl's throats. It leaves people feeling more positive. /rant

Lady
01-18-2005, 04:04 PM
I was really sad that there wasn't a hall contest for cosplay. I change costumes throughout the day, and I don't want to wait around for an entire masquerade of skits and such before I get my outfit judged. So a nifty hall contest would be super rad!

As for other cons at the same time as Ohayo-I don't think they have a choice. The hotel and other people make arrangements for conventions, and if Ohayo sets a date and then others set their dates to be the same...well then there you go.

I actually didn't have any problem with them (though hearing people go "Whoa, a Star Wars con?" while walking among the non-Star Wars cosplayers amused me). A group of three of the GodCon'ers actually gave soda and chips to some friends and I, so that was pretty awesome.

KnuxieChan
01-18-2005, 04:20 PM
I wish they had done the hall-cosplay. None of the walkons, except Nightmare got any awards. I didn't really find it fair. ._.; And some of the 'novice' cosplayers.. I think they were lying. No 'Novice' could make a costume THAT good.

Miyabi-
01-18-2005, 04:32 PM
Yeah, I wish there had been a hall contest as well. I don't really like getting up in front of big crowds and being scrutinized by a lot of people all at once. I thought I was going to die of shyness when I did a walk-on at Ikasucon and that was a small con!

Bobbi
01-18-2005, 04:49 PM
You see... I think the way they judge cosplay based on how many awards you've won is a bit warped.

People can make awesome costumes and be on more advanced craftsmanship levels. Yet, they may have never entered a cosplay before. So of course, they're going to be in the novice category, and take awards away from the true novices. I think cosplays should be judged based on what level you think you should enter. This is the way the International Costumer's Guild runs their masqurades. You can enter into any category you feel fit entering into, but you're not allowed to enter down. I personally consider myself a journeyman/intermediate because I know quite a bit more about costume design, construction, and prop-making than what I knew 3 years ago. But I'm not considered that because I don't really enter masqurades... because I know it's a waste of my time. I'm not a skinny hot chick, and I don't cosplay the VA's favorite characters.

Miyabi-
01-18-2005, 05:21 PM
But I'm not considered that because I don't really enter masqurades... because I know it's a waste of my time. I'm not a skinny hot chick, and I don't cosplay the VA's favorite characters.

It's so sad because these factors do tie in to poor judging. Every con I've been to since Ikasucon something Naruto has gobbled up all the awards. (and broke the no over 10 people on stage rule I might add) or someonel in a skimpy outfit (that might not even be particularly well-made) wins something just because they showed that much skin.
I've seen some truly spectacular costumes go unsung because no one even bothers to check the details on the costume.
I've only made three costumes so far (for myself anyways) so I'd almost feel obligated to enter under novice. But yeah...there should be more categories.

KnuxieChan
01-18-2005, 05:43 PM
I agree with you two. They should do that next year. This year was SO unorganized.. I liked last year alot better.

And I never cosplay characters that are overly done. I hate how the judges always pick their favorite characters, instead of judging fairly. >.< Bunta-kun should have won something!

marsie
01-18-2005, 06:03 PM
Please keep this comments coming! It does need revamped and I agree that the walk on needs a seperate award. The prizes were not done till last minute hence the lack of lots of prizes.

tohru_tohru
01-18-2005, 06:06 PM
Yeah, I wish there had been a hall contest as well.

There wasn't? I thought the "walk on" part of the Masquerade was the replacement of the hall cosplay. Oh well.

daguru
01-18-2005, 06:52 PM
I noticed that one of the skit's cd's got cut or something. During the skit that had Michael Eisner, on of their lines were muted. I don't know what caused the glitch, but they weren't too happy about it.

Also, not all of the skits that had people talking were able to use microphones.

R1KKu
01-18-2005, 07:01 PM
It's so sad because these factors do tie in to poor judging. Every con I've been to since Ikasucon something Naruto has gobbled up all the awards. (and broke the no over 10 people on stage rule I might add) or someonel in a skimpy outfit (that might not even be particularly well-made) wins something just because they showed that much skin.
I've seen some truly spectacular costumes go unsung because no one even bothers to check the details on the costume.
I've only made three costumes so far (for myself anyways) so I'd almost feel obligated to enter under novice. But yeah...there should be more categories.


I agree with you on that. Ive seen some really detailed, well done costumes up on stage, and of course, no award for them, but then its like, ok, he/she bought a few pieces of clothing from Wal-mart or wherever, went up on stage, and won an award. Ive seen it happen a few times. And get this, a Naruto group consisting of 26 people, who could not all fit onto the stage *craziness* (they won an award btw) Ive also seen awards given just because a judge likes that anime series or that video game, regardless of the quality or detail that a costume has, but hey, what can you do?? Ive made at least 10 costumes so far, mostly to gain experience in the hobby (and hopefully start commissioning...eventually) and I still consider myself a novice. Ive learned quite a bit since I first started though, and thats what counts.

As some suggestions for panels, Id like to see one with resin cast models that you put together. Ive always wanted one. Another one, which was at a small con out here in Chicago, showed people the proper way to wear a Japanese kimono and how to do the makeup and hair; I missed it too =(
Or maybe the basics to creating AMV's, unless that has already been done???

As for the masq, I missed the awards,but yes, I think walk ons and skits need seperate awards, and if the walk ons are divided by experience level, maybe have a few awards for each level, because, frankly, I dont see any competition between novices and experts.

(Im still tired from the con :snoring: )

Anne Packrat
01-18-2005, 07:28 PM
Perhaps the history of anime fandom in America?

Traeonna
01-18-2005, 08:35 PM
This was my first anime-related convention and my first time participating in a costume competition at a convention. If I had to go solely off this experience, I would never enter one ever again. I was only entering in to have my costume judged based on construction. I could not believe the wait required, the seeming disorganization, and the way it seems things were judged. I was prepared for hurry up, wait, hurry up, wait…however, I was not quite prepared for this. Whether it truly was or not, the whole thing seemed to lack organization.

Here’s a composite of things I had noticed along with discussions I had with other cosplayers during our long wait for the Masquerade and the post-Masquerade bitchfest. I know everyone did their best with what they had to work with, but in the spirit of creating a better convention in the future, I submit these ramblings for review.

When being judged, it seemed that the judges didn’t really care about details of the costume, etc. It was like, “Did you make that? Oh, ok,” then you were on your way. I had talked to many cosplayers who have done this for some time and even they were a bit let down. Typically there are questions such as, “did you make this, how, what do you like most, what do you like least, etc.” and typically review any reference materials to show how cannon the costume was, or at least explain why certain things were altered. Additionally, I found that there were many cosplayers that didn’t even make their outfits and they had entered into the contest. I find this is unfair since I feel that a costume construction contest should only be for those who want their work judged, not something they purchased from someone else. Anyone can do that.

I agree with what some have already posted, the competition levels are a bit skewed. There has to be a better way to determine Novice vs. Advanced. I saw too many advanced costumers in the novice category. I even considered myself not to be a novice as far as construction, but was told since I had never competed or won awards that I was considered a novice. I think there should also be three categories…Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced…I think that may help separate the jumps in ability.

I think the costume construction contest should be judged and then be done…winners announced with the cosplay skit winners, but not have to walk across the stage. Or if a walk is still desired, no order is needed…just all that wish to make an appearance walk across. May cut down on some of the problems experienced this year.

Finally, I know that some people were a little upset about the reasoning behind some awards. Complaints that I overheard were mainly because some people felt cheated and felt the reason of ”I’m giving this award to XYZ because they were from my favourite anime” just didn’t seem very valid to some of the cosplayers. It actually sounded pretty lame, even for a judge’s award.

Other than that, to the audience, it seemed like everything came together smoothly. Unbeknownst to them, all this chaos was going on behind the curtain.

marsie
01-18-2005, 11:41 PM
OMG! Traeonna- Thank you so much! Your response is excatly what I was looking for. I will forward it to the powers that be. I totally understand where you are coming from. It is obvious that the judges were bias and that was an error on the part of the cosplay head.

I am sorry that the Masq was such a negative experience for everyone. The only thing that I can say is to trust in the con that it will be corrected in the next year. I am going to post this on the staff mailing list. PLEASE let me know via AIM message if you do not want me to do so. I think it explains perfectly what I have been hearing from several participants.

Traeonna
01-19-2005, 12:34 AM
OMG! Traeonna- Thank you so much! Your response is excatly what I was looking for. <SNIP> I am going to post this on the staff mailing list. PLEASE let me know via AIM message if you do not want me to do so. I think it explains perfectly what I have been hearing from several participants.

Marsie, by all means, pass it on to whomever would find it helpful. I would be happy to share what I observed and heard during the con regarding the costume contest. I think it is important for cosplayers to have fun, but also for them to feel their hard work hasn't gone unnoticed. If there's anything else you would like from me, or if anyone else has questions, I would be delighted to help out all that I can.

KnuxieChan
01-19-2005, 01:31 AM
Thank you so much, Marsie. *hugs*You're really nice and alot of help ^_^

marsie
01-19-2005, 07:39 AM
*blushes* I am just glad to make this con fun for us cosplayers. So many cons make things so darn hard for us. The masq is our one time to shine, I want it to be the best it can be!

Traeonna- We shall be in contact!

Sari
01-19-2005, 08:51 AM
[QUOTE=marsie] It is obvious that the judges were bias

As I was one of the judges, can I ask why you thought we were biased? If you're thinking of the judges awards, well, that's the point of a judge's award. We have to be completely unbiased judging the regular awards, and judges awards are an opportunity for us to express ourselves a bit. Should we have explained our choices better?
Do you think we were biased choosing the other winners (best novice/advanced/best in show/etc)? And if so, why? I'd honestly like to know, because we absolutley were not.
This happened to be my first time judging, so I was still getting used to it, and I know it was far from perfect. I'd like to know what I can do to improve, but at the same time I think it's very unfair for people to says things like "The judges were biased" when they have nothing to back that up with.

So, please, constructive criticism is always welcome, but non-constructive criticism just doesn't help much.

Traeonna
01-19-2005, 10:22 AM
Finally, I know that some people were a little upset about the reasoning behind some awards. Complaints that I overheard were mainly because some people felt cheated and felt the reason of "I’m giving this award to XYZ because they were from my favourite anime" just didn’t seem very valid to some of the cosplayers. It actually sounded pretty lame, even for a judge’s award.

I can at least speak about my comment regarding judging. The comment came from a generalization of what I heard post-Masquerade from several cosplayers of varying ages, novice to veteran cosplayers, and audience members. I understand that the Judge’s Awards can be given to anyone for any reason…partly the point of the award…however, some felt that there should have been at least a somewhat “good” reason to give the award and “it’s my favourite anime” just didn’t seem to cut it as “valid” for most. I think people were looking for something like, “this person had an excellently constructed costume…I liked best was the attention to detail _______,” or “cosplayer had a great personality and was quite in character,” etc.

As to the other categories…I did hear quite a bit about the winner of Best Advanced Individual. Also, many felt that the winners of Best Craftsmanship Novice couldn’t possibly be Novice by looking at their construction. Hell, even I was surprised they were considered Novice, but they could have been like me…lots o’ experience in costume construction, but first time competing or even cosplaying for that matter. Also, I think that each award (or category) should be well defined so people understand what is needed to win, what is looked at when judging, etc. Some didn’t understand the difference between Best Advanced Individual and Best Craftsmanship Advanced. Many people had wished there was a detailed write up in the program explaining each award and reason for presentation. Also, there were SOOOO many “walk ons” for costume craftsmanship and only two awards presented for it. It seemed that the skits had way more awards. Of course, this could be completely wrong because no one understood what which awards were for what.

Here were some ideas that some of us cosplayers were discussing…

Best Of Show: Given to the best of the best from any category.

Judges Awards: Given by each judge for whatever reason, but should be something more than just “they were from my favourite anime.” This could include a special award decided upon by all the judges as well…kinda like a super judge awarded.

Best Craftsmanship (Junior {0-17 yrs} + Novice, Intermediate, Advanced): Given to best crafted costume in each level (must be made by person wearing costume…not someone else…and not purchased pre-made). There should be a category completely separate from 18+ for the Juniors, which should be 17 and under (unless they want to compete with the 18+…you can go up, but not down). In the 18+ division there should be a Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced and should try to be based on skill level rather than awards. Some see this as number of costumes constructed or even years of cosplaying, but awards is too up in the air as an excellent craftsman could have never won an award, but could never be considered a novice. It’s a tricky thing trying to place people, but it should be left somewhat open for the cosplayers to decide…they usually know best their skill…and again…you can compete up, but not down.

Craftsmanship Subawards (instead of trophies, perhaps certificates or ribbons):
Best Technical Achievement for those costumes that you are like “how the hell did they get it to do that?!
Best Creative Adaptation for those who take a character and do some creative mods (e.g. girlified Wolfwood and Vash duo, Jewish Wolfwood)
Best Cosplay Prop for all those gigantic swords and staffs that are an entity all their own.

Craftsmanship Honorable Mentions (These could be made up on the spot and merely presented with ribbons. I think it would be great for hallway awards.): Best Group Construction, Best Hair (NOT using a wig), Best Accessories, etc. They would be given to those who should be mentioned, but didn’t quite make the cut for the primary awards.

Best Presentation (Junior {0-17 yrs} + Novice, Intermediate, Advanced): Given to best presentation overall in each level. The Juniors can compete with the Seniors if desired, but Seniors cannot compete down. As to levels…these apply to both groups and individuals…if there’s room for more awards, have two divisions, but as far as performance, most understand that individuals are competing against groups so one performance award for each level would suffice.

Presentation Subawards (instead of trophies, perhaps certificates or ribbons):
Best Performance Group for the best performance as a group.
Best Performance Individual for the best performance as an individual.
Best Comedy for those who nearly made us pee our pants [e.g. Cosplayer No Jutsu, Yaoi/Yuri math].

Presentation Honorable Mentions (These could be made up on the spot and merely presented with ribbons.): Best Catfight, Best Martial Arts, Best Recreation, Best Characterization, etc. They would be given to those who should be mentioned, but didn’t quite make the cut for the primary awards.

Anyhow, I hope that helps…if not, please disregard.

Anne Packrat
01-19-2005, 10:51 AM
I liked how Sugoi did Most Dangerous Looking, and Most Kawaii. You could add those in as well, with maybe just a certificate or something.

marsie
01-19-2005, 11:27 AM
[QUOTE=marsie] It is obvious that the judges were bias

As I was one of the judges, can I ask why you thought we were biased? If you're thinking of the judges awards, well, that's the point of a judge's award. We have to be completely unbiased judging the regular awards, and judges awards are an opportunity for us to express ourselves a bit. Should we have explained our choices better?
Do you think we were biased choosing the other winners (best novice/advanced/best in show/etc)? And if so, why? I'd honestly like to know, because we absolutley were not.
This happened to be my first time judging, so I was still getting used to it, and I know it was far from perfect. I'd like to know what I can do to improve, but at the same time I think it's very unfair for people to says things like "The judges were biased" when they have nothing to back that up with.

So, please, constructive criticism is always welcome, but non-constructive criticism just doesn't help much.

First and foremost I was responding to what was said by Traeonna. I was not saying "The judges were bias." That is the conclusion that I came from, not only from what SHE said but from what I have read from other forums. I am here to moderate, I am just here to gather information.

I know nothing about the judges, the awards, etc. I am an information gather-er nothing more. Do not accuse me of flaming judges when all I was doing was responding to the complaints of the con goers.

When I came to that conclusion it was from the report that judges were picking awards based on their favorite anime. I consider that being bias to a particular cosplayer. That is what we were talking about NOT about the main awards. Please read things clearly before accusing me of doing things that I did not do.

*steps off soap box*

R1KKu
01-19-2005, 02:33 PM
Again, Traeonna, that was well thought out too. It's good to know that there are actually other people out there who feel the same way that I do about the masquerades and the way they are judged, and how unfair it is to enter commissioned costumes/props/etc, and any other factors that go into it. And I really like your ideas about awards and such.

Jayyne
01-19-2005, 06:31 PM
OK, I'm from the group that won best novice category. Here's what I have to say:
My group has only won one other award, which was last year. For 2004, we entered the Ohaycon masquerade as novices. SOMEHOW, I'm not sure HOW, we won a Master Craftsmanhip award LAST year, even though we didn't even enter that category and really ARE novices. So...according to the rules, we were novices. Not only were we novices for this Ohayocon, we're still novices according to the rules. My group did decide that we're not going to enter the novice category again next year because it seems really strange. Something needs to be tweaked there with the rules.
As far as improving the overall cosplay experience, here are my suggestions:
1: If somebody is missing during the judging, put their group on the bottom of the list. It's really frustrating to have the same names called over and over and they don't show up. Don't bump them off the list altogether, just move them to the bottom of the line.
2: Couldn't there be an exhibition category for those who aren't competing? They could perform while the judges are out making their decisions.
3: Of course I'm not unhappy with the outcome of the judging, but I will say that I was disappointed that my reference material wasn't looked at, and I did see quite a few groups who had very technically challenging costumes who didn't receive any awards at all.
4: We waited in line from 10:30-2:30, then came back and waited from 5:00-8:30. That was one exhausting day of cosplay. If there's ANYTHING that can be done to cut that down a bit it would be much appreciated.
I think this is all I have to say.
Jayyne

Bobbi
01-19-2005, 06:55 PM
My main and only gripe with the way the masqurade was run was 2390847293874 novices and like 5 advanced. If it was based on how many years you've sewn costumes you've made and how you feel you should be placed, there wouldn't be such a huge competition. Practically everyone there was a novice because we had never won any awards... because for one, the categorizing is way off. Our Psychicer group decided to leave because we had a paid photoshoot that was conflicting, and we just didn't feel that it would be worth our time.

This is my suggestion.

Have the person enter on which level they feel they are comfortable entering into. When the person is judged, ask questions relevant to constume construction, ask to see the sewing job, look at things close up. If the person picked novice when they clearly appear better than just any old beginner, move them up to journeyman. This way people will be competing with others on their own skill level.

Have 3 awards per each category (novice, journeyman, advanced)

1st place (large trophy), 2nd place (small trophy), honorable mention (certificate)

Have judges awards (certificate) for people the judges feel are worthy of mention... but not soley because they liked the series/character... maybe because something really stood out to them.

Have 2 judges per each category, 3 tables set up in different areas. This way the line will move quicker.

This way we have 6 trophies (3 large, 2 small), 3 certificates of honorable mention, and some certificates for however many judges there are. And some awards for the juniors category.

People who did not make their costumes should be disqualified unless the person who made the costume is present. The person who made the costume wins the award, otherwise, no. Just get those people out of the line unless they are entering for a skit. Then they should not be judged on craftsmanship.

It will cut down on cost, cut down on time, even out the competition and it will make more people happy. It's a win-win situtaion, and an easier solution in my opinion. Yes it's highly based on the honor's system, moreso than awards that you've won... but I think this would work out a lot better for everyone in the end.

Edit: oh and there would need to be awards for skits too. Best in show, 2nd place skit, and honorable mention, same deal goes with the prizes there (big/little trophy and certificate)

Heck, if you're hard up for good honest judges I'm willing to do it. I'll have been a judge twice by next Ohayocon. Granted one is a very small local thing... and the other is a small con... but yeah. =P It's something. *shrug*

Traeonna
01-19-2005, 07:06 PM
Jayyne, I was completely impressed by your costumes and was shocked to find you all were novices. Of course, what I consider novice and what the con considered novice are two completely different things. That all aside, you completely deserved the award...they were very accurate (from what I remember) and I'm a punk when it comes to detail and recreation of costumes.

Ok, so back on topic...yeah, it did suck that reference materials were not reviewed (I have a 1" binder detailing concept, construction, and completion). I think this important, not only to confirm that someone constructed the costume themselves, but also to help judge on accurateness (unless intentionally creatively altered). I'm a stickler for detail and I think that's the difference between a good costume and an excellent one.

Sari
01-19-2005, 07:50 PM
First and foremost I was responding to what was said by Traeonna. I was not saying "The judges were bias." That is the conclusion that I came from, not only from what SHE said but from what I have read from other forums. I am here to moderate, I am just here to gather information.

I know nothing about the judges, the awards, etc. I am an information gather-er nothing more. Do not accuse me of flaming judges when all I was doing was responding to the complaints of the con goers.

When I came to that conclusion it was from the report that judges were picking awards based on their favorite anime. I consider that being bias to a particular cosplayer. That is what we were talking about NOT about the main awards. Please read things clearly before accusing me of doing things that I did not do.

*steps off soap box*

Er, okay, I certainly didn't mean to accuse you of anything. I wasn't even aware that my post would come off as seeming angry to anyone...so that was in no way my intention. What I quoted from you seemed to be what other people in this thread were getting at, so I figured addressing that quote in particular would be the most effective.
I also did not accuse anyone of saying we were biased towards the other award winners, I simply asked if anyone thought that was the case.

So, I'm glad we could clear that up. As for you guys who posted ideas about different judging catagories...those were really good ideas :D I hope the can incorporate something like that next year, it would certainly make things easier on the judges!
If anyone has other questions...I don't really have alot of free time, but I'll try to help with what I can....?

Sari
01-19-2005, 08:02 PM
[
Ok, so back on topic...yeah, it did suck that reference materials were not reviewed (I have a 1" binder detailing concept, construction, and completion). I think this important, not only to confirm that someone constructed the costume themselves, but also to help judge on accurateness (unless intentionally creatively altered). I'm a stickler for detail and I think that's the difference between a good costume and an excellent one.

Hm, did you bring your binder? I remember one entry that brought a really neat, detailed binder that I really wish I had more time to look through, but we were just so pressed for time. The other craftsmanship judge and I arrived at 9:30am , and stayed until almost 3:30pm, and still only had minimal time for each entry :( We looked at every single reference picture given to us, briefly, but I felt it was enough to get a very good idea on each entry's accuracy. So I'm really sorry if anyone felt we weren't looking at reference pictures enough :/

Traeonna
01-19-2005, 08:10 PM
I understand that this year things were chaotic and that looking at all reference photos would be a pain, but not everyone brings them. I think the more "serious" cosplayers do. I have to keep the binder whether I cosplay or not because I intend to sell retired costumes and feel it necessary to keep documentation on the construction of it. Perhaps it's my old habits from university times coming back to haunt me...

Miyabi-
01-19-2005, 09:03 PM
Traeonna and Bobbi have good ideas about adding the categories and sub-categories to the masq. I like the idea of having a broader spectrum of things to enter under. Having more categories also means having faster lines. But how would that be handled? Would everyone only be able to enter one category? Maybe sub-categores (like Best Prop) could be given at random so it would be a surprise?

People that did not make their costume should most definately be disqualified.(unless they're modeling for another person and then that person gets the award) It takes away from people who actually spent hours of their lives they'll never get back working on something that means a lot to them.

I also was wondering what everyone thinks about only being able to enter the actual masq. categories only once? As in if you're competing solo you can't enter something in for a group award. Does that seem fair? I'm kinda torn on this one because I'd like to enter my costume solo and still do a skit with friends just for fun. How could that be done fairly?

As for the whole bias thing.....it happens. ( I fully admit that if I were a judge, I'd probably be more nitpicky about details on people that enter Inuyasha costumes just because it's my favorite and I'd want people to do it justice. (and with that show so many people DON'T) That *is* kinda what the judges award is for but it doesn't seem fair to have someone win in the categories and then also get a judges award. Like I suggested before...Maybe people should only be able to win anything once. It shows diversity and makes for people leaving a little more satisfied.

As for fairness in judging I think the things that need to be considered in order to make a fair judging assessment are:
1. "How long did it took you to make it?" Rome wasn't built in a day and neither would something as detailed as say, a Petshop of Horrors Medusa costume. (all those beads! O_O ) Anyone who'd say that about such a costume would be kinda suspicious to me.

2. "What you like best about this costume/Why did you pick this character?" Know thy character.

3. Ask detail questions! "What kind of cloth did you use to make this?" (If someone is lying about making something theirselves this one will throw them off...mwah-ha-ha)

4. Referance materials should be madatory. Entrances should have pictures of their character from multiple angles so details can be checked out if possible. The rules usually DO ask you bring referance materials. No referance materials and ALL of the judges don't know who you are to make a good comparison? Disqualified.

5. Pay close attention to said referance materials. Ask questions like "How did you get _____ to do _____?" "Did you have to compromise any with this costume?" "If so, what was it?"

hmmm...judging sounds like fun. How does one get to become a judge anyways? ^_^

Jayyne
01-19-2005, 09:12 PM
I don't really know what the solution to the category problem is, but if there had been an intermediate category I think my group would have been more suited for that one...or, if they had said groups can enter based on which category they THINK they should enter, like...if you've won more than three awards OR feel comfortable entering the advanced category, you can. Perhaps they can base it on the number of costumes you've created as well...for example I've made a number of costumes but I've only entered a few into competition.

Traeonna
01-19-2005, 09:20 PM
There would be two categories…Performance and Craftsmanship. Each of those two would have various awards, but you wouldn’t enter for each award, rather, you would enter into Performance and/or Craftsmanship categories. Performance is for skits and such and Craftsmanship is for basically judging your costume construction. You can be in both as they are two separate categories. One for performance and one for craftsmanship.

There has been some debate (primarily via IM and PM) regarding whether or not a person can enter wearing another’s costume. I’m under the idea that if you made it, you should wear it…or if you made it, then you shouldn’t enter your own costume, but rather escort your creation that is being modeled on another cosplayer. It’s tricky.

I like all of your suggestions regarding questions judges should ask, reference materials being mandatory, etc. Some cosplayers (especially novices), however, may not know to bring reference materials, so this may be a small problem. However, if the costume is of high quality, honestly, you should be able to prove you made it somehow…whether verbally…or via reference. I have to admit, I’m a reference freak. Yes, my friends make fun of my binder and me. I have swatches, budgets and receipts, reference images, photos of various stages of construction, etc. but you know what…there’s no doubt I made that costume.

Miyabi-
01-19-2005, 09:30 PM
I like all of your suggestions regarding questions judges should ask, reference materials being mandatory, etc. Some cosplayers (especially novices), however, may not know to bring reference materials, so this may be a small problem. However, if the costume is of high quality, honestly, you should be able to prove you made it somehow…whether verbally…or via reference. I have to admit, I’m a reference freak. Yes, my friends make fun of my binder and me. I have swatches, budgets and receipts, reference images, photos of various stages of construction, etc. but you know what…there’s no doubt I made that costume.

Yay for binders o'detail! I love seeing people go above and beyond.
This is true but it usually clearly states in the rules to bring referance materials. Personally I think if you can't do something as simple as read the rules (which you HAD to have done when looking up the con) ....grrr....
I know this sounds rude (I don't mean for it to) but people not knowing what's going on in an already hectic enviroment always irks me. It puts things behind schedule and sometimes just makes a mess of things for everyone else.
The Boy Scouts had it right with their motto of "Be prepared".
Sorry if this sounds jerk-ish. It's just my opinion and I'm not exactly noted for being a patient person in a crazy enviroment. I'm an organization freak.

Traeonna
01-19-2005, 10:33 PM
I'm an organization freak.

Organization freaks unite!!! There's nothing wrong with being prepared. I guess the reason why I like reference binders, beyond the whole proving you actually constructed the costume, is that it shows your progress as a cosplayer. Also, my Robin has a scalloped collar which is found mainly on wall scrolls, DVDs, and CDs, not in the anime (she has a more ruffled look in the anime). Also, my colours were based off a wallscroll, not the anime. If people never saw those reference photos, they would think that I had some uncannon parts of my costume...yes, uncannon for the anime...but not the advertising. Ok, so I'm detail oriented, but seriously, as I've said before, details are the difference between good and excellent when it comes to costuming.

Anne Packrat
01-20-2005, 01:49 AM
Organization freaks unite!!! There's nothing wrong with being prepared. I guess the reason why I like reference binders, beyond the whole proving you actually constructed the costume, is that it shows your progress as a cosplayer.

Okay two points I'd like to make:

Sometimes it is hard to find reference pictures. When I did my grunty costume I had only a picture of a prototype about the size of one our avatars. That's why some of my colors are off. I try to provide what reference materials I can, but since this is an art-based medium, certain details vary between drawings. Even in one volume of the manga subtle details of Gin changed. Plus I had to change certain things to match the fact that I'm roughly human shaped as opposed to penguin shaped.

I think there should be levels for performance as well. I feel I'm an intermediate in performance but still a novice in craftsmanship. I've won two awards for performance, but in the current awards based system, that puts me above our friend who has won a single craftsmanship award, but she has a lot more costume experience than me.

Traeonna
01-20-2005, 10:41 AM
Regarding reference materials: I believe that is something that could be explained if asked during judging. This is where creative adaptation comes into play. If there really are only a few reference materials available, then state just that, and then explain how you overcame such hurdles.

I tend to do costumes that are by characters that aren’t overly popular (e.g. Hanajima Saki’s dress that she wore at Kyoko’s grave) or use references from art books or promotional materials (e.g. Robin Sena’s styling and colouring from DVD poster). I didn’t have too many references for Hana…just a few screenshots. I Google Imaged the hell out of her and still came up empty (on that outfit). Additionally, I was not about to do all those zigzagged edges by hand…hell no…so I used black gothy looking lace instead to give it the appearance of it, while still maintaining the feel of the character. My veil was simply surged because regular pinking sheers did not have large enough teeth and if they did, the veil still frayed quite a bit. I don’t use Hana for competition, but she’s a good example of some of the things I had to think about during construction and if I did compete her, these were the things I think judges should know and review the little reference I have. It looks like an easy costume, but honestly, it was harder than I had imagined…those sleeves were a pain.

Now, as to competition level, I really thing it should be primarily based on where the person is comfortable, but one should take in account SKILL level as well. I can hardly be considered a novice as I have been sewing since I was quite young and I have solid construction; however, I hardly consider myself advanced after seeing some of those people…my costumes are very plain compared to those who have armor, large weapons, and intricate bead work. Additionally, I see Performance to be completely separate from Craftsmanship. The two should be treated as two separate things that can both be competed in. Some people are natural performers, but their crafting sills just may not be the best. That’s fine…just enter into the Performance category where you will be judged on performance, not necessarily costume (although it does help if we can tell who you are cosplaying). Craftsmanship should be entered into for people who want the construction and presentation of their costume judged. This should be based on quality of craft, how cannon the costume is (unless you intentionally called in creative adaptation…e.g. Jewish Wolfwood), how finished the costume is (e.g. do you have all the pieces of the costume, accessories, your hair done properly, etc.), and overall how you look as the character. You could have 25 Robins gathered together, but where you’ll separate the good from excellent is the details. This one remembered the pendant, and this one over here has the correct colouring, an this one has somehow gotten her hair to stand up in those ridiculous handlebars without using a wig, and the one over here was careful when choosing length, etc. Perhaps I am nitpicky because I was in costuming while attending university, and that’s the stuff I had to pay attention to, but I’ve seen a lot of Robins, but only can say about 5 of them were really good. I strive to be one of those 5…and those are the types that have a good chance at awards if that’s your thing. Me, I’m just happy with all the people who approached me to take a photo…that’s my validation of a good job. And one last thing on costuming…find someone you trust to pick you apart…look at every seam, hem, detail and have them tell you the flaws they find…it helps greatly if you’re trying for the nearly perfect costume (because no costume is perfect no matter how talented you are). Most of all, have fun because no award is more important than that!

Happy cosplaying!
Trae

Shizzo
01-20-2005, 04:35 PM
I don't really know what the solution to the category problem is, but if there had been an intermediate category I think my group would have been more suited for that one...or, if they had said groups can enter based on which category they THINK they should enter, like...if you've won more than three awards OR feel comfortable entering the advanced category, you can. Perhaps they can base it on the number of costumes you've created as well...for example I've made a number of costumes but I've only entered a few into competition.


I am the Nephrite cosplayer who won with Jayyne. She's pretty much summed up our position on the topic, so I don't really have much more to add. I just wanted to speak up to have her back =D
As the only group who was specifically mentioned as seeming unfair...well that does sort of hurt my feelings ^_^; You can be assured that we were pretty torn as to what category to enter. I know this may sound sort of arrogant, but we do realize that we don't exactly fit into the novice category as far as craftsmanship goes...we've been making costumes for awhile, but this was only our 3rd entered cosplay. But rules are rules, and we think of the advanced category for cosplayers who are "uber", if you will, and we definately don't consider ourselves to be one of those people.

So basically...what I'm saying is...don't be mad because of us ^_^; We were sort of worried that people would get mad...but we decided following the rules would be the best way to handle the situation. I realize that what is being said about us isn't being said in a nasty or malicious way, it's just being said to further progress, but I would like to represent our group in saying that we didn't want to make anybody mad...and it sucks that some of you feel like us being novices is unfair.

BUT! In the spirit of furthering progress, I do have one little gripe about the cosplay (and one giant gripe too, heh). My little gripe is that all of the craftsmanship trophies were the little ones! (I know, kind of a stupid gripe, eh?) I think I speak for everybody on this forum when I say that making costumes is hard work!!! Give the best craftsmanship person a big prize too, darn it!!
And just so we're clear, I'm not talking about the award my group one, I'm talking about "Best Overall Craftsmanship", or "Best Advanced Craftsmanship", or whatever. I am very much enamored with my trophey, little or not =P


My larger gripe was about the lining up of the cosplayers. I know that my group was re-placed and re-ordered in line about a zillion times and our section (the very end) of the line was yelled at alot for being out of order, when really we were all just following conflicting instructions, and it was all just very chaotic and confusing. The hallway we were kept in during the cosplay was dirty and gross and not really fit for sitting on the ground in costume, so those of us in uncomfortable shoes (me included) got to stand in those uncomfortable shoes for about 4 hours during all of the confusing shuffle. Those of us at the end of the line didn't even realize that the cosplay had begun until the walk-ons were over. We weren't given any information on how we were to enter the stage area until it was our turn, we weren't given any information about the microphone situation (which makes it hard to modify a skit that may need microphones), and we weren't told where to go after we got off stage. Basically the cosplayers weren't told anything. At all.

My sister, who was in the audience, said to her it seemed that everything was running very well and that she was well entertained and had alot of fun, but I know that everybody in line around me was getting pretty upset and uncomfortable. BUT, we did have a very amusing Abu Graib prison photoshoot, and I did think that all of the cosplayers I met in line were really cool, so thanks for talking with us and keeping us entertained with your cosplay shennanigans.

OK! That was a long post. If you read all the way through it, you are very cool ^_^;

Miyabi-
01-21-2005, 07:04 PM
This is totallly unrelated to the masq.
I know a lot of people had some bad experiences with the Christian convention that was going on at the same time as Ohayocon and have wanted the Ohayocon organizers to not schedule Ohayocon at the same time as the Christian convention. That's silly because Ohayocon orgainizers have no control over that.
While, I didn't have any bad experiances with the Dare2Share people. (the teenagers were actually very nice) I do agree that it wasn't very fair that they could come up to our con and bug us and waste our time when we couldn't come up to theirs. I mean, what if there really WAS a cosplayer that wanted to know more? They wouldn't have been allowed to go up and find out more. And let's face it...I seriously doubt many of the Dare2Share attendees were *really* interested in anime. EVERY time I was asked "What's this convention about?" the conversation shifted to them trying to preach about the Lord. And that's fine...if Jesus is your thing yay for you. But guess what? Anime was my thing and I didn't want to hear about Jesus and neither did many other people.
I think next year Ohayocon should employ the wrist bracelet system (like the Dare2Share people had) and close the con off to people that aren't actually there for the con. It would reduce conflict and everyone could enjoy their respective cons.
I don't know if it's possible to do that but I'm just tossing ideas out.

akicafe
01-22-2005, 12:41 PM
the problem with that would be that the main hallway that connects the battelle hall (next to the dealers room) to the convention center, runs right down the middle of the con, and it's when the D2S group was walking through that hallway when those problems occured.

Technically, all of the hotel hallways are public areas, and we can not limit who goes through them, just who goes into the individual rooms.

NecromanticChii
01-22-2005, 01:26 PM
What about holding a hall contest, in a room. I know it does not fit the name, but who knows. ^_^ That is of course, if you can spare the room. What about the hall where the panel rooms came out at? It seemed big enough. (Judgeing by the size of 2004 hall cosplay contest)

Traeonna
01-22-2005, 01:48 PM
I once attended an event (not anime related) that had judges that just roamed the convention and if they saw a costume that they were impressed with, they handed them a little ribbon and made up their award name on the spot. It was kind of nice because many people got awards...and it made people feel good...but also it didn't need to be at any particular time and it was open to anyone who were in costume throughout the 3-day event. Just another thought. I do like the whole formal Craftsmanship competition because damn, I spent a lot of research and design time before construction...so yeah, possibly getting an award is cool. I suppose part of this comes down to amount of staff and budget. Is it in the budget to have 100+ ribbons made up (that's a dumb question...they really are inexpensive)? Is there staffing to be able to judge in the hallway? Also, it's expected by most that there will be a formal competition, but if there's a quick and easy hall one, perhaps less people will enter into the formal therefore making it faster to judge.

Miyabi-
01-22-2005, 01:49 PM
ahhh I didn't realize that about the corridors. *sigh* I'd just like our con to be left in peace.

Loki-sama
01-22-2005, 03:32 PM
I thought I would never find another person with my same opinion in those matters, Koneko.

Miyabi-
01-22-2005, 06:22 PM
Loki-sama, you could always wear T-chan and just start biting them! ^_^

bunnybeth
01-25-2005, 03:10 PM
Since many things have already been brought up, I'm just going to mention a different problem that I ran into at Ohayocon. Although this was far from being my first convention, it was the first time I had participated in a masquerade. The main problem I had well before the masquerade even started was the lack of information given concerning the registration and pre-judging.

Before leaving for the con, I emailed the cosplay head asking about time(s) for pre-judging, but was told it was not yet determined. I asked this question again right before the con on the forums, but no answer was ever given. Upon arrival, all the info desk told me was that "Cosplay Registration" was to be held Friday night and Saturday morning.

Friday night, I could not make it to the registration due to other activities. However, I saw no problem with this, as plenty of registration time was given Saturday morning and they were both labeled as the same thing. So, Saturday morning, a half hour before it began, my friend and I show up, expecting to register for the masquerade and be told when pre-judging would take place. (When emailed back previously, although no specific time was given, it was implied that this would take place during the early afternoon on Saturday.) However, we found that everyone was in costume, so I questioned someone (who turned out to be a judge) about it and was told that Saturday morning was in fact both registration AND pre-judging! This caused some scheduling problems for the day, and in the end resulted in our being one of the last walkons pre-judged and therefore had probably less than 1 minute of the judges looking us over.

So, to the powers that be, the moral of the story is: if something is actually "Cosplay Registration AND Pre-Judging" do not call it just "Cosplay Registration." Also, making it clear about the times before the con starts would be a plus!

LittleAki
01-25-2005, 05:47 PM
I didn't think that my costumes were good enough to enter cosplay this year, but next year I'm hoping to get something really nice done, and this year the big mess kinda scared me outta of thinking about doing it next year.
I've seen everyone post their gripes, so hopefully that will get the staff's attention and they'll be able to come up with a better plan.

Onto other things I want to see.
I didn't get a chance to go to every panel or see what some of them were about so if I mention something that was present at the con, let me know, and ill edit my post.

I liked some of the panels, but I think more of them needed visuals in them. I enjoy going in to talk about things, but I like to see examples and what not. I would like to see some panels that talk about the art or music behind an anime/manga.
I also really like panels that cause debates. I don't mean like fighting and stuff. One of my favorites this year was in the cafe and it was about deviation in japanese and american cultures. My favorite panel at Ohayocon 04 was the panel on Uziga, just because it made some people leave because it was so weird ^_^
That's what I like. Interesting stuff, stuff that we don't already know ALL about. Not only are we at cons because we like anime, we like the whole culture. So I think maybe some more cultural related panels would be cool.
Like I said, if there were already some of these panels let me know.

My friends (that went with me) and I are discussing some other things we'd like to see, so I will probably post more later.

One thing that I really liked was where the dealers room was moved to because there was soo much more room so I could actually look at stuff ^_^

Miyabi-
01-25-2005, 08:19 PM
Boy am I ever glad I didn't enter the masq this year!

I agree with LittleAki..the best improvement they made was the dealers room. Last year it was so frustrating to try to look at things while being crammed elbow to elbow with other people. I'm not claustrophobic at all but boy that day I could sure imagine what that felt like.

Bobbi
01-25-2005, 10:13 PM
Oh the dealer's room was a huge improvement! It was nice and spacious with plenty of dealers. I could actually look at items, and not rush through them to give someone else room.

Some of the people had some way overpriced items though. I bought one of those X-2 yuna 1/6 scale vinyl figuinres for $35. Someone else was selling it for $95 about three booths down. What the heck?! It was still overpriced for what I paid, but it's definately more reasonable than the other price. O_o;;

akicafe
02-05-2005, 08:35 PM
I noticed that one of the skit's cd's got cut or something. During the skit that had Michael Eisner, on of their lines were muted. I don't know what caused the glitch, but they weren't too happy about it.

Also, not all of the skits that had people talking were able to use microphones.

I was running the sound board and the glitch didn't come from our system, it must have been from their source CD.

akicafe
02-05-2005, 08:46 PM
Just a note to people, I've had time to talk to the head of the con himself, and there will be a hall cosplay next year, although it will be run differently than probably any other con you've been to. Also, the regular cosplay contest will be run in a really unique way (I can't disclose details pending some changes and the like).

One of the main concerns about the con has been the usage and the "getting your money's worth" factor out of our main events hall, which, as anyone can guess, costs an arm and a leg to use. So we're working on ways to optimize our events in the ballroom, while at the same time working with the cosplay and fan community to make sure we arrange a fair contest for everyone that wants to enter, as well as a good time and show for all. After all, between the concert and cosplay warmups, that room was not used for open con events for an entire half day!

NecromanticChii
02-06-2005, 08:20 AM
Thats cool, that there will be a hall contest. ^_^ As for not using the room half the day, i know you all will change that. ^_^ Aki, thanks for keeping us posted. :dance:

Bobbi
02-06-2005, 01:56 PM
Thanks for letting us know! That sounds like good news, being most of the masqurades I've been to and competed in have been rather... meh. So I'm glad some kind of change is being made.

marsie
03-01-2005, 08:05 PM
Unfortunatly, Akicafe is no longer affliated with Ohayocon as a staff memeber. Therefore please disreguard his statements.

I will be presenting your ideas to the conchair at our first inperson meeting in March so please pm me with any other items you'd like to see in a hall contest and your Masq.

^_^

NecromanticChii
03-03-2005, 09:34 AM
Ok, thankyou for informing us of the changes that have taken place. I am sure you will get some good ideas from many people at these forums, and Ohayocons forums.