PDA

View Full Version : Too many cons


Amy the Yu
02-02-2005, 03:09 PM
Starting a proper thread in the right forum for a topic that has been brought up in many other threads.

Previous discussion can be found here:
http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=48488

In the span of a couple of weeks, the already high number of conventions in the GTA has gone from 6 to 8 (and that's not counting GCAF, which is still relatively close by). Just a weeee bit rediculous.

Not 2 years ago, the area only hosted Anime North and CN Anime as actual anime conventions, and CN was considered debatable as CN was a 3-in-1 con (comics, sci-fi and anime divisions).

Since then, in chronological order, the following has surfaced and made themselves known (although many have yet to actually start):
1. November/December Toronto Anime Con (DTAC)
2. March Toronto Anime Con (MTAC)
3. Northern Anime Festival
4. Garden City Anime Festival (yet to debut)
5. Con no Baka (yet to debut)
6. ? (unknown con located in Richmond Hill, yet to debut)

We were considered lucky to have two reasonably sized cons in the area already, and while it's nice to have something to do during the rest of the year, I fail to see why we need this many.

I'm sure that even if the 3 that are set to begin in 2005 NEVER come to be, the majority of the people here would still be plenty happy with what we have already, especially since even some of the non-anime cons in the area are starting to put more focus on anime (ie. Toronto Trek and Ad Astra).

Many of the new cons are also poorly timed. Actually, all 3 that are set to begin in 2005 are just so. GCAF is set on the same weekend as Toronto Trek, and just a week off from NAF. Con no Baka is set right at the beginning of final exam time for most university/college students. And the new one just mentioned in Richmond Hill will be smack middle of finals for university/college students.

AN and CN have both made top 10 largest cons in North America for 2005, AN taking an amazing 4th place!!! Why can't all these people who feel they need to run a convention in order to feel fulfilled go and try joining staff (or even volunteering) at AN, which is grossly understaffed and still growing at a frightening rate?

There are lots of other people more qualified than me to cover all the other issues involved with running a con and problems that these new cons are sure to face, so I'll step down and allow others to make those points.

This might be slightly off topic in the land of cosplay, but if threads about hotel rooms and car pools to cons are allowed, then this should be considered relevant too...

jiyoon
02-02-2005, 04:01 PM
Starting a proper thread in the right forum for a topic that has been brought up in many other threads.

Previous discussion can be found here:
http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=48488

In the span of a couple of weeks, the already high number of conventions in the GTA has gone from 6 to 8 (and that's not counting GCAF, which is still relatively close by). Just a weeee bit rediculous.

Not 2 years ago, the area only hosted Anime North and CN Anime as actual anime conventions, and CN was considered debatable as CN was a 3-in-1 con (comics, sci-fi and anime divisions).

Since then, in chronological order, the following has surfaced and made themselves known (although many have yet to actually start):
1. November/December Toronto Anime Con (DTAC)
2. March Toronto Anime Con (MTAC)
3. Northern Anime Festival
4. Garden City Anime Festival (yet to debut)
5. Con no Baka (yet to debut)
6. ? (unknown con located in Richmond Hill, yet to debut)

We were considered lucky to have two reasonably sized cons in the area already, and while it's nice to have something to do during the rest of the year, I fail to see why we need this many.

I'm sure that even if the 3 that are set to begin in 2005 NEVER come to be, the majority of the people here would still be plenty happy with what we have already, especially since even some of the non-anime cons in the area are starting to put more focus on anime (ie. Toronto Trek and Ad Astra).

Many of the new cons are also poorly timed. Actually, all 3 that are set to begin in 2005 are just so. GCAF is set on the same weekend as Toronto Trek, and just a week off from NAF. Con no Baka is set right at the beginning of final exam time for most university/college students. And the new one just mentioned in Richmond Hill will be smack middle of finals for university/college students.

AN and CN have both made top 10 largest cons in North America for 2005, AN taking an amazing 4th place!!! Why can't all these people who feel they need to run a convention in order to feel fulfilled go and try joining staff (or even volunteering) at AN, which is grossly understaffed and still growing at a frightening rate?

There are lots of other people more qualified than me to cover all the other issues involved with running a con and problems that these new cons are sure to face, so I'll step down and allow others to make those points.

This might be slightly off topic in the land of cosplay, but if threads about hotel rooms and car pools to cons are allowed, then this should be considered relevant too...

Our con is more of a private con... cos our school has over 2000 people, we're just holding it for them in Richmond Hill, because most of them can't make it to AN or CN or any of the conventions.

As well, we're a high school, so it wouldn't apply to university/college people.

Amy the Yu
02-02-2005, 04:11 PM
Our con is more of a private con... cos our school has over 2000 people, we're just holding it for them in Richmond Hill, because most of them can't make it to AN or CN or any of the conventions.

As well, we're a high school, so it wouldn't apply to university/college people.

That's good to hear. Private events are always enjoyable, although watch out for budget if there's a lot that's not covered by sponsors cause this kind of thing tailors to a specific taste. (Even with a lot of interest in anime now a days, there are still many who don't want to pay to go to an event when they can sit at home and watch it on YTV.)

archangeli
02-02-2005, 05:34 PM
Obviously the organizers think there is a market out there or they wouldn't do out to start these new conventions.

Hobbystar is known for trying to rake in as much money as they can from these venues.. -_-" I am proud to say that I have never "paid" to attend any Hobbystar run convention... hehe. (I've never been to CNA - life conflicts with that on a yearly basis, but I "visited" MTAC last year.)

I don't have much interest in going to the new conventions. I'd much prefer to support the older, more established conventions in our city. AN, Toronto Trek and Ad Astra.

If you have such a huge problem with there being so many cons, just don't go. There's no need to rant about it.

Sarcasm-hime
02-02-2005, 11:09 PM
It's not a matter of going or not going, we're trying to get the word out to people that the market is not infinite, and there is a LIMIT to how many cons the area can handle. They may THINK that there is a market, but I suspect that a lot of the people starting up new conventions haven't really considered the situation fully.

And we're trying to get people to understand that it is far better for the community to help out the existing conventions than starting tons of new ones.

Mari Moni
02-03-2005, 12:15 AM
Quality > Quantity

SimiHe
02-03-2005, 12:26 AM
Uhh...why is it Amy always starts such threads and they always turn into bashing threads, I think this Amy might need to rethink what she or he says.

Now...I'm reading..and reading and this my opinon and don't flame me, cause I live in a free country and that's allow. I also want to state..I AM NOT APART OF ANY OF THE CONS MENTIONS STAFF..ahem:

and that's not counting GCAF, which is still relatively close

Dude..saying that GCAF is so close by is like staying Niagara is apart of Toronto and really thats' a poor thing to say. 1. untrue and 2. It's not that close.

AN and CN have both made top 10 largest cons in North America for 2005, AN taking an amazing 4th place!!! Why can't all these people who feel they need to run a convention in order to feel fulfilled go and try joining staff (or even volunteering) at AN, which is grossly understaffed and still growing at a frightening rate?

Uhh..okay...your point? Lets not put dirt on them as well and dance around all over them. what is with you in putting other con's down. Think about it, they do it because there is a huge fanbase who either 1. never heard of AN, 2.Never knew there were such things and 3. Toronto is a pain city to travel too.

Obviously the organizers think there is a market out there or they wouldn't do out to start these new conventions.

Hobbystar is known for trying to rake in as much money as they can from these venues.. -_-" I am proud to say that I have never "paid" to attend any Hobbystar run convention... hehe. (I've never been to CNA - life conflicts with that on a yearly basis, but I "visited" MTAC last year.)

I don't have much interest in going to the new conventions. I'd much prefer to support the older, more established conventions in our city. AN, Toronto Trek and Ad Astra.

If you have such a huge problem with there being so many cons, just don't go. There's no need to rant about it.

Excatly, well said. *claps*

there is a LIMIT to how many cons the area can handle. They may THINK that there is a market, but I suspect that a lot of the people starting up new conventions haven't really considered the situation fully.

Uh yeah, the con GCAF should of been the limit I mean why are they all in southern ontario? Oh yeah I forgot..were mini america here..

Actually, all 3 that are set to begin in 2005 are just so. GCAF is set on the same weekend as Toronto Trek, and just a week off from NAF.

I agree with Nagii, TT dates were not posted on their website at the time these dates were chosen and I quote from the funding thread in the GCAF forum, GCAF's dates were decided before June and were not posted until after the centre was booked in July. Second NAF's date was said after GCAF booked..

The truth is your all whiny and running scared.As soon as another con comes into the picture you run for the hills screaming OMFG!!!! Our people! Our crowd! What if's and what not's. you know what. NO ONE CARES!

Sad but true, Stop hogging up the forums for your useless whining...boo who AN is understaff, boo who a new con, boo who waaaaaaaaah. You know what, it's abit trieding and I bet your doing ALOT worse then helping, use your brains. AN and CN are old. We can't have those 2 forever, I doubt Mcdonalds or Burger King came out with their restrurants that they fought they were gonna be the only ones on the market.

I travel to AN which I might say is 8 hours away, I'm gonna go to NAF and I'm gonna go to GCAF and I'm gonna go to CN and I'm gonna go to CONnoBaka and you know what..thats all on a Mcdonalds part time salary so just stop your damn whining and crying and whatnot, because it just shows how weak and pathetic you are and..

I'm really sick of hearing it in every thread. You've tainted yourselves you know. People aren't look at you in the innocent lights anymore. Good work.

Amy the Yu
02-03-2005, 12:49 AM
Quality > Quantity

That just about sums it up.

SimiHe - I think you might want to read over your own words. You're bashing a lot of people here, and I think you're the one feeling the need to bash.

And why do I get flamed, yet you don't? Last time I knew, I was living in the same free country, unless Kitchener-Waterloo suddenly decided to seperate and form their own nation...and if that happened, I'm SURE I would have heard something on the news about it.

I'd also like to mention that I DO help at the cons. I've pulled 12-20 hours volunteering at every single Canadian con that I've ever been to, and more than my share of the "grunt" jobs that no one else wanted to do.

Sarcasm-hime
02-03-2005, 12:53 AM
Ah yes.......we're all whiny idiots who are scared. That must be it. It has nothing to do with caring about the fan community as a whole....how silly of me.

BTW this thread is not bashing any one particular con so you can get off your goddamn "everybody's being mean to GCAF!!!" soapbox.


Uh yeah, the con GCAF should of been the limit I mean why are they all in southern ontario? Oh yeah I forgot..were mini america here..
.....what on earth are you trying to say here?

As for AN being old and therefore there's no need to help out....WTF. So you'd rather have tons of new cons run by people with little to no experience instead of a big con with lots of dealers and events run by people with years of experience??? If something is running for a few years then it becomes 'old' and useless? Anime Expo and Otakon have been running for years, do you consider them 'old' and worthless?

Thank you for your opinions. Next time I suggest actually formulating your statements in coherent sentences and using spellcheck. Good night.

Kaijugal
02-03-2005, 01:18 AM
The truth is your all whiny and running scared.As soon as another con comes into the picture you run for the hills screaming OMFG!!!! Our people! Our crowd! What if's and what not's. you know what. NO ONE CARES!

Sad but true, Stop hogging up the forums for your useless whining...boo who AN is understaff, boo who a new con, boo who waaaaaaaaah. You know what, it's abit trieding and I bet your doing ALOT worse then helping, use your brains. AN and CN are old. We can't have those 2 forever, I doubt Mcdonalds or Burger King came out with their restrurants that they fought they were gonna be the only ones on the market.

.


These are all seperate issues.

Let me address some here.

~There is nothing wrong with pointing out that some of the exisiting conventions could use more staff and volunteers to help them continue to run smoothly. It's true and it's relevant. The fact that you are disregarding and mocking these statements just shows your inexperience. Our hobby requires a unified effort by all if it is to remain viable and enjoyable.

(I won't even count CNA here as it's an Expo and primarily not fan run.)

~Nothing lasts forever, (obviously), so well your statement is true in principle, let us just say I don't forsee Anime North ceasing to exist for quite some time. If you're inferring that one or all of these cons have been created to fill a vacuum that you percive Anime North or CNA will leave sometime soon, I commend your enthusiasm but not your reasoning.

You also seem to be under the misconception that other established conventions are somehow threatend by the exsistance of these new conventions. None of them are, after all they have exsisted in harmony with each other for years now.

It's clear that it's you that is intimidated, not the other way around.

You need to get a grip and stop acting like everyone is your enemy.

heki-chan
02-03-2005, 01:57 AM
hmm...hasn't this topic already been talked about to death? O_O;;;

even if there is a thread about how theres too many cons and how some people aren't happy with it--these cons are still gonna happen...so why not just give them a chance, and wait to see what happens?

Theorizing and speculating isn't always correct forecasts of the future...
I just don't see a point in upseting multiple parties multiple times ^_^;; (whether intentionally or unintentionally)

Just my 2 cents. ^_^;

Yuna-X2
02-03-2005, 09:03 AM
I think that the main problem is that we're creating many cons that are weak in one thing or another instead of making one excelent con. Clearly there are many people who want the same thing (A good quality con) who display leadership skills (shown by trying to put one on). Instead of working seperatly on their own cons, they could all work together on one of the existing convnetions and make it an excelent, well rounded convention.

I see this happening on Ottawa. We had our first anime convention here this year, AC-Cubed. Now that people see that is was a success, people are trying to plan their own independent conventions. Why can't they help with AC-Cubed? They're still desperate for help, and they're still trying to get everything put together to make it a con that can last. It just seems like a waste to start so many when all of them could easily fail and then Ottawa will go back to having no convention again.

I can see where Amy is coming from. I think it's unfair to become so defensive and start to flame people. We all have an opinion.

Ninja Sensei
02-03-2005, 10:59 AM
This discussion has also been tossed about on other boards and on LJ (such as mine from a few days ago for instance - http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=gordon_rose).

I personally feel the discussion is healthy. As long as we keep the emotions out of it.

Nobody is saying that these cons are bad ideas. And everyone certainly ahs the right to vote with their feet and either go or not go as their mood dictates. But the passion displayed in these discussions that may be seen as "bashing" is more that these people are concerned about the impact on the community. It's more a discussion on market dilution and allocation of resources, motiviation and competency of teh convention leadership team, and of economics and scheduling.

Personally, I don't think we need more specialized conventions. Amy the Yu had the right idea with concentrating on what we have already.

Now, let's look at GCAF (which is unfortunately scheduled opposite a bigger costume event in TT) and NAF. Do these fall into the category of "needed"? They are both on the fringe of the Greater Toronto Area (I live in the west end of the west end of the GTA and it takes me about as long to drive to one as to the other). So they potentially serve different markets. Will they draw 1000 or 2000 people? Maybe ... if they're really lucky (but they should count on 2-4 years to make these numbers).

Con No Baka ... needed? I don't think so. IMHO It would have been better if this effort was channelled into an existing event ... or directed toward an untapped market. Like K/W, Northern Ontario (Sudbury/North Bay), etc. Or maybe even to Ottawa to help support AC-Cubed. Why in the GTA? That's where the organizers are. Why a new event instead of helping support the numerous existing events? I have no idea ... ask them.

Ans as for the comment on "old event = disappearing event" ... AN has been around for, what, 8 years? SFX/CNA for about as long. TT for 19. Ad Astra for 24. If these events are truly boring and staid, and not providing what you want ... get involved and get them to change thinigs!

Why does the trend seem to be to hare off and start their own show?

"We could put on our own show! My uncle has a barn, and we could rope off Main Street, and have marching bands..." (Although most of you are too young to remember the Andy Hardy movies and such. ;))

Amy the Yu
02-03-2005, 11:38 AM
I see this happening on Ottawa. We had our first anime convention here this year, AC-Cubed. Now that people see that is was a success, people are trying to plan their own independent conventions. Why can't they help with AC-Cubed? They're still desperate for help, and they're still trying to get everything put together to make it a con that can last. It just seems like a waste to start so many when all of them could easily fail and then Ottawa will go back to having no convention again.

Ottawa has a con now? =O I had no idea (I only hear rumours about it a long time ago), but I'm pretty out of the loop when it comes to other big cities. ^^;;

I'm glad that Ottawa finally has a con going there. It seemed kind of strange to me that it didn't have one before even though I know there's at least a decent sized number of anime fans there and it's pretty accessible to fans living in the surrounding communities.

or directed toward an untapped market. Like K/W, Northern Ontario (Sudbury/North Bay), etc.

K-W's pretty damn close to the GTA (only about a 1-2 hour drive depending on where you leave from and what part of the GTA's the destination). We also have an animated cinema festival here annually, although it's not terribly well attended. It's a tiny place, so I can't say that we'd need much more considering there's also a pretty large anime club running out of U of W.

Northern Ontario sure can use a con or two though. Even small ones would probably be well appreciated since the fans from further north always have to travel these terribly unreasonable distances to come to the GTA for conventions and there always seems to be a lot of fans who are willing to travel all the way down for AN and CN. Makes me wonder how many more there are who don't have the resources to come this far for a con (the greater the distance, the greater the cost), but would love to attend one.

JustinCredible
02-03-2005, 11:50 AM
Hobbystar is known for trying to rake in as much money as they can from these venues.. -_-" I am proud to say that I have never "paid" to attend any Hobbystar run convention... hehe. (I've never been to CNA...

Well as long as they put together an ejoyable expo/con, then I think the trade off of money <---> fun is worthwhile.

Anyways...

There are a lot more conventions in the GTA, so I don't have a problem with new ones poping up... they just need to understand that although thinking big is grand, it isn't practicial... expecially when starting up.

Kaijugal
02-03-2005, 11:56 AM
As for the comment on "old event = disappearing event" ... AN has been around for, what, 8 years? SFX/CNA for about as long. TT for 19. Ad Astra for 24. If these events are truly boring and staid, and not providing what you want ... get involved and get them to change thinigs!


I second this!

Many of these cons would be happy if people would come forward an offer to plan and run new events within them, yet most people are unwilling to make sound proposals and do the work. Running an event within an exisiting con is much easier than starting your own Con.

I have to agree with Winnie that these threads hvae been talked about quite excessively, however I find it ironic that some of the people who are the most vocal do little or no work at conventions or have little or no convention experience at all.

(I said some)

SimiHe
02-03-2005, 02:59 PM
SimiHe - I think you might want to read over your own words. You're bashing a lot of people here, and I think you're the one feeling the need to bash.

I wasn't bashing anyone. It was just a harsh opinon.

I'd also like to mention that I DO help at the cons. I've pulled 12-20 hours volunteering at every single Canadian con that I've ever been to, and more than my share of the "grunt" jobs that no one else wanted to do.


Do you want a reward?

BTW this thread is not bashing any one particular con so you can get off your goddamn "everybody's being mean to GCAF!!!" soapbox.

uhh..okay? When did I say that? I don't remember saying that? I just stated that everytime a new con comes out people jump right to conclusions and attack it. Last year it was NAF this year it's GCAF, Con no Baka. Plus..how in hells name do you think they are actually in trouble? Do you work for them, do you have a special Detective spying on them, cause you should never know inless they openly say it or on the day things go wrong..and since both Amy and Sacsim(gomen ne about sp) aren't attending any of the new cons, they should have no say. Anything you need to say should be emailed or pm'd to the staff of these cons. Not out in the OPEN Where others can read it.

As for AN being old and therefore there's no need to help out....WTF. So you'd rather have tons of new cons run by people with little to no experience instead of a big con with lots of dealers and events run by people with years of experience??? If something is running for a few years then it becomes 'old' and useless? Anime Expo and Otakon have been running for years, do you consider them 'old' and worthless?

How did those people at AN get their experiance?......oh yeah they made a con. I'm not saying that and you for one misunderstood it or only read what you wanted to read. Because I think someone already said it up here:Obviously the organizers think there is a market out there or they wouldn't do out to start these new conventions.

I am not getting to attracted to AN as I use too. It seems it's going down the corpate ladder abit too much, It's still abit disorganized too, but I still go..even if some of the staff are abit testy..well the ones I met were last year. Years ago it was about fun and it just seems to be a blah type of a businesses, it's not even a social con anymore. Sometimes it's kinda better to go to new con's and get that old feeling back. Cause I really miss it.

these statements just shows your inexperience

Uhh okay..I don't know what the in the world is that surpose to mean being of course I'm inexperiance.....I'm not in the con business, I'm just a normal anime fan college student in Fashion Design...........That just shows you didn't read the first statement too well.

I see this happening on Ottawa. We had our first anime convention here this year, AC-Cubed. Now that people see that is was a success, people are trying to plan their own independent conventions. Why can't they help with AC-Cubed? They're still desperate for help, and they're still trying to get everything put together to make it a con that can last. It just seems like a waste to start so many when all of them could easily fail and then Ottawa will go back to having no convention again.

Con's are only a sucess if people go to them. Like People put alot of work and money into a con that people don't go to for stupid reasons. Like Quality and Quanlity..uhh okay..how in the world can you judge that yet? Besides...new con's are good..because it would just be boring with only 2 cons, if the states can have alot of cons then why not Canada? Yeah so ON is small, that shouldn't be a problem.


Now, let's look at GCAF (which is unfortunately scheduled opposite a bigger costume event in TT) and NAF. Do these fall into the category of "needed"? They are both on the fringe of the Greater Toronto Area (I live in the west end of the west end of the GTA and it takes me about as long to drive to one as to the other). So they potentially serve different markets. Will they draw 1000 or 2000 people? Maybe ... if they're really lucky (but they should count on 2-4 years to make these numbers).

I don't think GCAF is the problem, this thread was started back up after 2 more cons in Toronto were set up. And as I stated before, THEY MUST OF FELT A NEED. GCAF was a wonderful idea being it's alot different to AN when it comes to money and charity, now I'm not saying it's better, but I'm saying HOW WOULD YOU KNOW...besides It was like one of those things...okay..we want to do something good for a suffering charity that might die without support...how will we do it?....an anime con, their popluar, family like and fun. What a perfect way to raise money. Plus the only thing they get out for the hardwork is a good feeling and a pizza party. So you got to think they're doing a good thing for almost nothing in return.

Plus NAF was fun, I actually enjoyed it more then AN this year. Even though they did have problems it was relaxing, not so packed or whatnot it was a peaceful relaxing day, I only wish it was a 3 day con.

Con No Baka ... needed? I don't think so. IMHO It would have been better if this effort was channelled into an existing event ... or directed toward an untapped market. Like K/W, Northern Ontario (Sudbury/North Bay), etc. Or maybe even to Ottawa to help support AC-Cubed. Why in the GTA? That's where the organizers are. Why a new event instead of helping support the numerous existing events? I have no idea ... ask them.

I'm sorry..I don't think so.. GTA doesn't need another...seriously.

Ans as for the comment on "old event = disappearing event" ... AN has been around for, what, 8 years? SFX/CNA for about as long. TT for 19. Ad Astra for 24. If these events are truly boring and staid, and not providing what you want ... get involved and get them to change thinigs!

Sorry I don't volunteer and I live 8 hours away so..um no.

IN my final opinon:

Too Many cons in the GTA=Bad thing

Everywhere else= Good Thing

IF anymore people makes cons....FEAR MY FURY!!!

Mekou
02-03-2005, 03:24 PM
Now for my 2 cents.

No one ever said that people /have/ to attend these new cons and /have to support them. If you don't want to go, that's fine. If you want to go but the location is too far away for you, that's fine too. My point is that the final decision is up to you and you alone.

NAF and GCAF are technically not even in the GTA. =/ It's a pet peeve of mine when people say Oshawa is in the GTA when clearly it's not. It's just a neighbour to it. Anyways, the purpose of the two cons is to give the local fans an affordable event to go to. I can think of at least 30 people from my school alone that complain because they can't afford to go to AN or their parents won't let the go because "it's in Toronto". Whatever the reason, there are a lot of people can can't afford to go to Toronto for cons. So having a more local con will give those people something to go to. That's the whole purpose (of NAF at least). If the people from the GTA can't go, then that's pefectly fine. As the saying goes, you can't win them all.

If people really want to see these new con die out then just stop supporting them. Stop discussing them, stop doing anything about them and one day they'll just stop because they can't afford to keep going.

But in the long run, a little moral support will take you a long way. So long as someone out there is supporting these cons, I don't think they will disappear so soon.

Sarcasm-hime
02-03-2005, 04:02 PM
I am not getting to attracted to AN as I use too. It seems it's going down the corpate ladder abit too much, It's still abit disorganized too, but I still go..even if some of the staff are abit testy..well the ones I met were last year. Years ago it was about fun and it just seems to be a blah type of a businesses, it's not even a social con anymore. Sometimes it's kinda better to go to new con's and get that old feeling back. Cause I really miss it.

First off, while AN has been getting bigger and bigger it is NOT 'corporate' in any way. It is still run the same way it has always been, by volunteers who love anime, and the proceeds are still donated to charity. AN staff do not make any money off the convention.

And yes, a lot of the time the staff are testy and stressed....and do you know WHY? It's because the con is growing so fast that the staff cannot keep up. We need NEW PEOPLE to help out to keep the con going and make it fun. We want the con to be fun, but it's hard to effectively run an event that draws 8000 people when you still have the same number of staff as when the event had 5000 people. -_-;;

That is why many of us are frustrated that so many people are running off to start their own conventions when they could be helping to make AN fun and well-organized. I don't think new conventions are a bad thing per se, but I don't think that we need so many conventions in the same general area, and I think that our energies would be better used to try and make the cons we already have better rather than starting tons of new events. It's just common sense.

I'm sorry..I don't think so.. GTA doesn't need another...seriously.

Too Many cons in the GTA=Bad thing

Everywhere else= Good Thing

Um....that's exactly what NinjaSensei was SAYING. That there are too many cons in the Toronto area. And I know some of you disagree, but I consider anywhere within an hour or two or driving to be "the area" since that's how far people are likely to be willing to drive to get to a con. If it's within an hour or two, you're going to be getting a lot of the same people as the other cons in that area so you're competing for the same attendees. We wouldn't be having this discussion if the new cons were being started up in Sudbury or Montreal or somewhere else that's more than 3 hours away.

kaliko_rosa
02-03-2005, 04:47 PM
That is why many of us are frustrated that so many people are running off to start their own conventions when they could be helping to make AN fun and well-organized. I don't think new conventions are a bad thing per se, but I don't think that we need so many conventions in the same general area, and I think that our energies would be better used to try and make the cons we already have better rather than starting tons of new events. It's just common sense.

.......... I consider anywhere within an hour or two or driving to be "the area" since that's how far people are likely to be willing to drive to get to a con. If it's within an hour or two, you're going to be getting a lot of the same people as the other cons in that area so you're competing for the same attendees. We wouldn't be having this discussion if the new cons were being started up in Sudbury or Montreal or somewhere else that's more than 3 hours away.

Well said, Sarcasm. After reading over the arguments in this section, I do believe that yes, it would be beneficial to concentrate on developing the growing conventions in the area rather than spawning new ones. I was fond of the idea of new conventions at first, because it added variety and something to do in the months waiting for the bigger cons. But now all of them seem kind of burdensome, trying to fit them into packed schedules. If I had to choose, it's quality way over quantity. If Anime Expo or Otakon were situated around here, I'd be happy if that was the ONLY con all year, because of how much they have to offer. That's what I'd hope for AN... to be Canada's gem of conventions. In that sense, trying to compete against it does seem to take away from what everyone wants out of a good con.

But it seems that a lot of people look at these conventions as a communal responsibility... such as, "we need help, you can help, so why don't you help us instead and benefit everyone?". Not everyone sees it that way. Personally, if I had the resources and the ability, I would love to see a convention started up here in Hamilton, which is definitely in the Toronto area. "But why would you do something like that?", you ask. There are a variety of reasons. Having a con start up in your hometown is always a great experience. Heck, you don't have to get a hotel for once! Starting one up yourself is a huge source of accomplishment. I'm basically saying that there is something human about the number of cons that sprout up. Everyone wants to do their own thing, and sometimes that involves breaking away from the "mother ship" to do so. Representing your own city/area, even if its nearby, is its own experience. I'm not saying it's right... but it's a part of the competitive flame. If they have their own dream to realize, they'll be focused on it regardless of how it affects AN.

That opinion doesn't help much.... but I just thought i'd point it out in case it makes any sense ^_^;

Sarcasm-hime
02-03-2005, 05:14 PM
I understand what you're saying, Kaliko, and I understand why people want to start cons in their hometowns. I just want to explain to them why it's not always a sensible idea. But I think you understand what I'm getting at. ^_^

I used to always come home every night at cons, because it's cheaper, but I've found that now I far prefer to stay at the con hotel even though I live in Toronto....because it's more relaxing, and you can hang out with people more easily (and that's what is so fun about cons to begin with). I always felt like I was missing out on stuff when I'd go home during cons....so that's something to consider. ^_^ It may be more economical to have a con in your hometown so you can sleep at home, but in my experience it isn't as fun.

Amy the Yu
02-03-2005, 06:16 PM
I don't understand why people think I MUST live in TO just because I know the city and have big city mentality. I don't live there more than a total of a month out of every year now, and that's accumulated weekends and holidays that I can manage to sneak away from K-W to spend some time with my family and friends in TO.

It's really only convenient for me in the way that since my parents live there, I have free accomidations. I still have to suck up the 2 hour long ride to get there and the additional hours on the TTC getting to anything outside of the ghettolands of Scarborough.

Getting to AN from my parents' home (where I only stay on occasional weekends when I feel a desperate need to stay in a big city) takes me as long as somone getting there from Oakville. Getting to AN from Waterloo (where I live 8 months out of the year) takes as long as getting there from Oshawa. Getting to AN this year from Philladelphia (where I work 4 months of the year) will take me about 14 hours and I'll still be pulling full volunteer hours, so I don't think SimiHe has a leg to stand on in long distance=impossible to volunteer. I might even come back the weekend of NAF and go volunteer there.

None of the volunteers EXPECT anything out of doing so. We do it to help the cons. I don't think any anime con can run properly w/o all the volunteers to play lackey for the staff. We volunteer simply because joining staff either isn't a tempting idea, or it's not possible (due to distance, previous obligations, etc).

I don't like the idea of more cons, not cause I can't afford them (I saved all my earnings for years for a reason, and I'm not travelling to all the conventions in the USA cause they're too far away and I'm broke). Starting new conventions takes man power away from strengthening already existing cons.

I would much rather have people gather and make one con that runs at 100% rather than have 4 cons each only running at 25%. (I second Kaliko in that I'd be happy having one large con like Otakon or AX that has a lot to offer and hope with all my heart that someday, AN may have the resources and support to become even greater.)

2 hours drive really isn't that far. Many people commute that distance for work everyday...several of my profs do.

Yeah, the USA has a lot of conventions, but there's usually only one or two for each state, and HOW MANY do we have for just southern Ontario now?

The term "GTA" seems to be as vague as the range of Chinatown in TO is to most people. Everything seems to slowly get swallowed up by it and the original definitions get lost in everyday speach.

SimiHe - I fail to see where you're coming from when you say that GCAF should be the last of the cons. What makes that the absolute limit? They haven't really done anything else that the other new (opens in 2005) cons haven't done yet.

IMO, I thought that the number of conventions should stay where they're at, since those cons/expos have already shown their existance and since they've already proved themselves, keeping it up seems perfectly reasonable.

SimiHe
02-03-2005, 07:43 PM
That is why many of us are frustrated that so many people are running off to start their own conventions when they could be helping to make AN fun and well-organized.
Starting new conventions takes man power away from strengthening already existing cons.

Okay..you just admitted to being afraid and conerned for your own well being when it comes to new cons.

NAF and GCAF are technically not even in the GTA. =/ It's a pet peeve of mine when people say Oshawa is in the GTA when clearly it's not. It's just a neighbour to it. Anyways, the purpose of the two cons is to give the local fans an affordable event to go to. I can think of at least 30 people from my school alone that complain because they can't afford to go to AN or their parents won't let the go because "it's in Toronto". Whatever the reason, there are a lot of people can can't afford to go to Toronto for cons. So having a more local con will give those people something to go to. That's the whole purpose (of NAF at least). If the people from the GTA can't go, then that's pefectly fine. As the saying goes, you can't win them all.

Well said, that is 100000000000% true.

I would much rather have people gather and make one con that runs at 100% rather than have 4 cons each only running at 25%.

I know alot of people who will disagree with that statement. One con..are you really that serious, that's boring, stupid and gonna fade out alot fastest. See..like my example before.

Mcdonalds didn't think they would have competation when they started. As soon as they did, it didn't take long for others to follow, many places now sell burgers..the same with any other popluar business theres always gonna be followers, it's a way of life. Smaller cons are alot better then bigger ones. Less crowds, noise, more room and alot more events. Bigger cons are full of frusration, crowds, noise, long waiting times..it takes alot of fun out when you have to wait.

In smaller cons/local cons, yeah so you don't meet different people but your always gonna be friends with the people there. I went to NAF last year, it was alot of fun. I met alot of new people and alot of the events didn't have such long waits for cut off lines. I plan on going to GCAF this year as well as NAF the weekend after and you know, no con's gonna be the same. Theres no such thing. Everything will be different walking into AN then into GCAF then into NAF, they will always do something different then the other that attracts many fans.

To tell you the truth I've never been to a hobbystar, Ad Astra or TT ever and I never plan too and maybe if AN gets worse..I won't attend that either because it just wouldn't be worth it. I need something that attracts my interest and if the smaller cons can do it alot better then the bigger ones..so be it. You'll have to live with it cause I doubt NAF or GCAF are going anywhere in a long time, they have it all down packed.

Amy the Yu
02-03-2005, 08:12 PM
One con..are you really that serious, that's boring, stupid and gonna fade out alot fastest. See..like my example before.

That's your opinion, and one that many don't share. Two people have already said otherwise before you even posted this.

If small cons only provide space to meet people and see old friends, I know several dozen people in Southern Ontario who would much rather just stick with events like the random group trips to Pacific Mall, Cosplay Bowling or any of the many photoshoots that are organized each year. They're cheaper, more frequent and have more variety than conventions, and range in size from a few people, to nearly matching NAF's turn out from 2004.

Chibik3r0
02-03-2005, 08:14 PM
That is why many of us are frustrated that so many people are running off to start their own conventions when they could be helping to make AN fun and well-organized.

Starting new conventions takes man power away from strengthening already existing cons.
Okay..you just admitted to being afraid and conerned for your own well being when it comes to new cons.

What does this have to do with anything regarding the new cons opening up? It's not like they're fearing for their lives because new cons are opening. They're just stating their opinions that existing cons are susceptible to being weakened by new cons starting since many people can't budget to go to all the conventions that exist in Southern Ontario and the Greater Toronto Area. Back up your statements with some substaintial evidence and maybe people will take what you say a bit more seriously.

One con..are you really that serious, that's boring, stupid and gonna fade out alot fastest. See..like my example before.

Smaller cons are alot better then bigger ones. Less crowds, noise, more room and alot more events. Bigger cons are full of frusration, crowds, noise, long waiting times..it takes alot of fun out when you have to wait.

To each their own. I personally have more fun at bigger conventions because they attract more extravagant guests (even Japanese guests!), get larger crowds, and give me the opportunity to meet people who typically wouldn't bother with a smallish crowd. I converge at Otakon every year and get to see online friends I've had for years that I wouldn't normally get to meet. I've also made many great friends at large conventions. Granted, the same could be said for small conventions... But as I said, to each their own.

You'll have to live with it cause I doubt NAF or GCAF are going anywhere in a long time, they have it all down packed.

Sorry, what proof is there that a con that hasn't even started yet (GCAF) has it "down packed"? Care to explain your reasoning behind this and what you exactly mean by "down packed"?

(To the people of GCAF, this isn't meant to be an attack on you guys. I just want to hear SimiHe's reasoning behind this statement)

Sarcasm-hime
02-03-2005, 08:14 PM
Okay..you just admitted to being afraid and conerned for your own well being when it comes to new cons.

Um.....where are you getting this? Saying that we're worried that the good cons we have already will be damaged is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from saying we're concerned for our own well-being. "Worrying about your own well-being" means worrying about your personal self. I don't know about you, but I am not a convention, and I don't make any money by being a staff member. :P

I know alot of people who will disagree with that statement. One con..are you really that serious, that's boring, stupid and gonna fade out alot fastest. See..like my example before.

Your logic is flawed. Just because something is big, it will fade out fastest? On the contrary, things tend to die out easier when they're first starting up. More businesses fail right after starting up, rather than after they've been running successfully for years. If something has been successful for years, it has proven that it can function and chances are it will continue.

Smaller cons are alot better then bigger ones. Less crowds, noise, more room and alot more events. Bigger cons are full of frusration, crowds, noise, long waiting times..it takes alot of fun out when you have to wait.

Big cons may be more crowded and noisy, but I fail to see how small cons have 'alot more events'. Big cons can afford to run more events, get more guests, and offer more attractions because they're big. Smaller cons, because they're smaller, don't have as many people helping out so they can't run as many events and get as many guests. If you only care about hanging around with people, you can do that anywhere; there's no need to start a convention just for that purpose.

To tell you the truth I've never been to a hobbystar, Ad Astra or TT ever and I never plan too and maybe if AN gets worse..I won't attend that either because it just wouldn't be worth it. I need something that attracts my interest and if the smaller cons can do it alot better then the bigger ones..so be it. You'll have to live with it cause I doubt NAF or GCAF are going anywhere in a long time, they have it all down packed.

Okay...this just takes the cake. NAF and GCAF 'have it all down packed' (I presume you mean "down pat")??? The first event has only run once, and the other one hasn't even run at all yet. How can you say that you know they'll be around for a long time when they have not yet demonstrated that they can be successful for more than one year (or in the case of GCAF, at all). Nobody can know yet how those events are going to turn out in a few years because they don't have enough experience under their belts yet. They might run for years, or they might not. At the beginning of something it is impossible to know either way.

As for smaller cons attracting your interest better than the big ones.....well clearly you're in the minority, because AN's attendance keeps growing by leaps and bounds. And we care about making the con fun for those 8000+ fans....so that's why we're concerned about people not helping out.

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 08:42 PM
Oh dear god...not again. How many times does people need to make these threads, give it a rest already. Please and thank you. I do not see how these threads are useful. They are full of text fighting, you people can't even be nice to each other..it's sad. I know, everyone has their own opinon and that's good, where would we be without it.

I don't mind how many con's appear. I only go for events and the dealers room, I could careless about guests and what else pleases you. Oh I go to meet knew people too. Cause I love meeting new people, especialty people who share my passion.

I will be attending alot of cons this year O_O I have already saved up 5,622 dollars WEEEEE for me. I think I'm going to like 10 cons this year, I've booked alot of rooms and days off to attend, I guess you can say I'm one of those true anime fans...>_> <_<;

Well..I know NAF is doing well and I know GCAF will do just fine. I just know because they both have wonderful people who are communited, happy and loving..oh and very very helpful. I don't feel much for..Con of Idiots...because.......it just sounds lame.

Oh as for different con offer differnet things...the only differences I can think off are dances types, masquerade types,Reg types, main events, special presentations and alot of the mini games were never heard of at the bigger cons and I'm not gonna list them cause you all can get off your lazy bums and see the sites. Which both are very very pretty *o*

I think if someone rights another bashing comment, rude comment, mean comment, crude comment...this thread like the others should be deleted not locked. Because...it's really really mean and you all should be ashamed, now...

SAY YOUR SORRY and please stop fighting. PEACE ^_________^

Katsuyuki_Shiro
02-03-2005, 08:51 PM
There is actually VERY LITTLE REASON for new cons to be popping up in the GTA like reproducing rabbits (sorry if this is a bad metaphor, just had of a science exam.. ^^;;..). Why create a new con when there are already so many? Is it for the convinience? Business? Fandom? Whatever reason it may be, it's rediculous. For those who would like to create an event in their area for the anime fandom in an area that is pretty far away from all of the cons in the GTA, why not create something smaller instead of a con? Anime/Cosplay events are -JUST AS- good as anime conventions. In fact, they're practically the same thing! You go to a con to socialize, have fun, cosplay (optional), and maybe even meet new people. You go to an anime/cosplay event to socialize, have fun, cosplay, and meet new people. Probably the only thing that's missing in a cosplay event is a dealer's room, but the majority of what people do at a con still outmatches one small, nearly unessential thing. Instead of going through so much trouble to create a new con for others, why not create an event or gathering for others in the area? That's pretty much what these cons that are outside of Toronto are doing. They are gathering people around their area for the sheer convinience and fandom of a con rather than travelling all the way to Toronto to go to a really big (and very popular I might add) con. Why support the small and many and raise the chances of falling when you can support the big and few which are still growing and becoming more and more successful? Do those who make really think that just because they're making a con that it'll be successful like Anime North and CNA? It takes TIME, WORK, and EXPERIENCE to make successful cons like these. Just because it's a con doesn't mean it'll be good and successful like them.

Yes, we do have too many cons. If the ones that we have now are a lot already, isn't that enough? Having so many cons in the GTA is starting to become more of a problem or a burden than a blessing... -____-"

Eleryth
02-03-2005, 08:52 PM
I don't have much to say on the "too many cons" issue, but I have to say something to this statement:


One con..are you really that serious, that's boring, stupid and gonna fade out alot fastest. See..like my example before.


Where I'm from, there only is one con. ONE. Granted, the city's not as big as Toronto (it's about 800000 people). They're slowly getting bigger. AFAIK, it's the longest running anime convention in Western Canada, started by one of the oldest anime clubs in Canada (but now run by members of several Alberta clubs and a special committee).

Welcome to Animethon (http://www.animethon.org/). Going on it's 12th year.

The attendees (4000-5000 of them, and more every year) don't find it boring (personally, their previous programming [show wise] has been some of the best I've seen, better than AN), it's hardly stupid, and it's definitely not going by the wayside any time soon. And know what? It's also FREE to attend. That's right, FREE. It's not a convention, really, it's a festival. That's why there's no entrance fee (there is to enter the cosplay contest, but not the actual convetion itself; but there may be now, since they're getting bigger). They made their money to pay for it from club memberships, sponsors, grants, dealers rooms, club t-shirts and things like that.

There's now a smaller film festival/convention in the city of Calgary (only a few years old, called Otafest (http://www.otafest.com/)) run by the university members there (these two cons, as far as I can tell, have a lot of cross-over staff wise). They don't compete, they share.


Sorry if it's so snooty sounding...^^;; I'm still quite attached to this convention, as it's in my hometown and was the first convention I've ever been to. Animethon Pride, yo! :P

Katsuyuki_Shiro
02-03-2005, 08:55 PM
Oh dear god...not again. How many times does people need to make these threads, give it a rest already. Please and thank you.

It's actually good to discuss these things. If we are really entitled to our own opinion about an issue, we are also entitled to share it with others. So why not discuss this issue on something that is as open and as public like a message board? It's not as though we're all over the whole forum saying that there are too many cons in the GTA. It's all being kept in this one thread where those who want to read it and share their opinion with others may do so. We learn from others more than we learn from ourselves. ^^

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 08:58 PM
How many con's is it now..like 8?

Chibik3r0
02-03-2005, 09:05 PM
How many con's is it now..like 8?

MacTac, Anime North, Northern Anime Festival, Garden City Anime Festival, CNAnime, Con No Baka, DecTac... That's 7. Add to this all the mini-events such as the dances, and all the gatherings/photoshoots we put together, it's a lot.

Mekou just said it best to me on MSN: "Some people think there's too many cons, and other's don't."

We're each entitled to our own opinions, and at least should be respectful to each other's opinions without trying to respond to each others OPINIONS with some disparaging remark to point out why "You're wrong and I'm right". They're opinions for a reason. It's not fact. Just an opinion.

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 09:06 PM
Mekou just said it best to me on MSN: "Some people think there's too many cons, and other's don't." We're each entitled to our own opinions, and at least should be respectful to each other's opinions without trying to respond to each others OPINIONS with some disparaging remark to point out why "You're wrong and I'm right". They're opinions for a reason. It's not fact. Just an opinion.
Yes I agree fully, but these threads always turn into bashing fights..it gives me a headache. T_T

Yuna-X2
02-03-2005, 09:08 PM
I just think there are so many other places that deserve conventions too, not just the GTA. It's a shame these people who want to make lots of conventions can't take their enthusiam to other parts of the country too. I have a friend who lives WAY north, 16 hours away from Toronto. She's the biggest anime fan I know, but she can't go because the transportation costs to get to Toronto are far too much for a student saving for college. Places like Thunder Bay, Sudbury, Ottawa, Winnipeg deserve to see some action with conventions too. They have nothing, and Toronto has 7 cons. It's a shame really.

Katsuyuki_Shiro
02-03-2005, 09:09 PM
Mekou just said it best to me on MSN: "Some people think there's too many cons, and other's don't."

We're each entitled to our own opinions, and at least should be respectful to each other's opinions without trying to respond to each others OPINIONS with some disparaging remark to point out why "You're wrong and I'm right". They're opinions for a reason. It's not fact. Just an opinion.

^___^;;;; That's exactly what's going on here..... We each have our own opinion and we each have our own definition of who is "right" and who is "wrong". There isn't really anything we can do about it.. ^^;;.. er... =___=... This topic would work SO WELL in a debate... XD

Yes I agree fully, but these threads always turn into bashing fights..it gives me a headache. T_T

Well... Yeah... Bashing fights are pretty pointless... Bashing happens through a person's dislike on another's opinion. Which there seems to be a lot of right now.. ^^;;... But if this is such a big issue, why not debate over it? ^^ That way there'll be one "right" side and one "wrong" side.

HidoshiNobunaga
02-03-2005, 09:11 PM
I'm a firm believer in that to have too much of a thing sours the experience. What was once extraordinary becomes ordinary, what was once interesting mundane, and what was once enjoyable, boring.

I find myself bored at TACs even because it's more of the same. Unless a con can really present something different, it's not worth having it. AN and CNA are the staple cons which I think are worth keeping. Ad Astra... I'm not interested, even with its legacy. Toronto Trek is good because it's a sci-fi con, that's neat. But people seem to be started all sorts of new cons which are just carbon copies, albeit smaller, more naive ones, of the regular cons. I'm also not thrilled with any such proposals that we make cons for subgenres like Yaoi and Yuri, because there's plenty of ways to incorporate both into a regular con.

So yeah, less cons, please.

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 09:12 PM
Toronto has 7 cons. It's a shame really.

Actually I'm gonna agree with some people here...NAF and GCAF are not in the GTA..not even that close -looks at a map of the Golden Horseshoe.-

^___^;;;; That's exactly what's going on here..... We each have our own opinion and we each have our own definition of who is "right" and who is "wrong". There isn't really anything we can do about it.. ^^;;.. er... =___=... This topic would work SO WELL in a debate... XD

Yes it would..only problem is no one would win. It would just be a ongoing debate with no winners because I'm sure it's a 50% 50% split

I'm sorry..I have to disagree with the carbon copy part >.< Don't be mad. I have to agree that I've never been to a con where it was ran the same way as the one before it. I also have to agree this was bond to happen sometime when it did no one knew but it was just gonna happen anyways.

Sarcasm-hime
02-03-2005, 09:13 PM
Oh dear god...not again. How many times does people need to make these threads, give it a rest already. Please and thank you. I do not see how these threads are useful. They are full of text fighting, you people can't even be nice to each other..it's sad. I know, everyone has their own opinon and that's good, where would we be without it.

I think if someone rights another bashing comment, rude comment, mean comment, crude comment...this thread like the others should be deleted not locked. Because...it's really really mean and you all should be ashamed, now...

SAY YOUR SORRY and please stop fighting. PEACE ^_________^

Actually, the original post in this thread was quite polite and well-behaved, and most of us have been discussing the matter in a civilized manner. There's only one or two people that keep coming in and turning it into a bashing/flamewar (both here and in other threads). If everybody would just play nice, we could have an intelligent discussion on a subject that I think is quite valid and worth talking about.

Katsuyuki_Shiro
02-03-2005, 09:14 PM
Yes it would..only problem is no one would win. It would just be a ongoing debate with no winners because I'm sure it's a 50% 50% split

But at least it would definately be a much more organized than this... ^^;;

Actually, the original post in this thread was quite polite and well-behaved, and most of us have been discussing the matter in a civilized manner. There's only one or two people that keep coming in and turning it into a bashing/flamewar (both here and in other threads). If everybody would just play nice, we could have an intelligent discussion on a subject that I think is quite valid and worth talking about.

Agreed. ^^

Amy the Yu
02-03-2005, 09:17 PM
Yes I agree fully, but these threads always turn into bashing fights..it gives me a headache. T_T

Then please don't read. This thread wasn't made with the idea "let's have a flame war" in mind. People are really beginning to feel that there are too many in southern Ontario, and they need to speak out about their opinions. I would rather everyone's rants (whichever side they take) center around a single thread that's generalized about ALL the conventions here, instead of each seperate new con taking an individual beating from people who aren't terribly pleased that we may very well hit double digits in convention counts soon. -_-;;

Does anyone else find it ironic that so many people here feel that we have too many cons while there are so many areas that don't have any at all?

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 09:17 PM
Actually, the original post in this thread was quite polite and well-behaved, and most of us have been discussing the matter in a civilized manner. There's only one or two people that keep coming in and turning it into a bashing/flamewar (both here and in other threads). If everybody would just play nice, we could have an intelligent discussion on a subject that I think is quite valid and worth talking about.
I doubt that will ever happen, I didn't think the post that started this was too nice..maybe it was just me..or maybe I'm just being mean to Amy since she started the last one that went abit overboard e.e; God I have no idea.

But at least it would be a much more organized than this... ^^;;
T_T Oh yeah...ever scene Jerry Springer?

Katsuyuki_Shiro
02-03-2005, 09:19 PM
T_T Oh yeah...ever scene Jerry Springer?

Ok... Would Jerry Springer really count as a GOOD (or even decent) moderator in an issue like this? Jerry Springer is just all over the place. I mean like a properly organized debate. Two separate sides, one moderator, time limit, proof and information. It may be how like we do it in high school but it still works nicely.

Does anyone else find it ironic that so many people here feel that we have too many cons while there are so many areas that don't have any at all?

Yes... Those areas who don't have cons could use at least one. (Let's give them one of ours! XP j/k)

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 09:20 PM
Ok... Would Jerry Springer really count as a GOOD (or even decent) moderator in an issue like this? Jerry Springer is just all over the place. I mean like a properly organized debate. Two separate sides, one moderator, time limit, proof and information. It may be how like we do it in high school but it still works nicely.
o_O it was a joke..hun. You know how heated this things can get and heated Jerry Springer gets....do the math...this would not end nicely.

If the areas wanted one don't you think they would of started one?

Sarcasm-hime
02-03-2005, 09:29 PM
If the areas wanted one don't you think they would of started one?

I don't think it's that simple. Lots of areas, I'm sure, have people that want a con but they don't have the money/experience/whatever to start one up. A successful con requires money and committed people who can put a lot of time into running it. I'm sure that there have been attempts to start cons in some places that just fizzled out, because starting a business (which is essentially what a con is, even if it's non-profit) is complicated and difficult.

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 09:40 PM
I don't doubt that it's not. I had an idea of how much time and money it takes, that why I think I shall give my support to new cons, because if we didn't it's kinda like sayin screw you when it fails and if the staff is young, that slashes dreams and kids usually look up in dreams, if it is their dream to make something big and happy and wonderful then who am I to spoil it, who are you to spoil it, who are they to spoil it.

"Everyone has a dream, sometimes they stay dreams and never grow into something real, people keep trying to grasp but it slips away like ripples in water always hiding in fear of what others would think and the dark voice in the back of their mind. Sometimes, people who are strong enough can reach out and grasp ahold of the tail and bring it close to them. Hold it tight and never let it escape. They then work very hard though thick pains and sorrows to create this into reality, no matter how much scafice they endure. They keep working and making, building a beautiful dream into the real world like a child in new air letting it run free from their hands, chewing at their nails like a mother hen hoping no one will hurt it, hoping it will be feel to create it's own destiny. But sometimes, the new realities are harmed, harmed by negative energies who take control and twist and break the poor dove until it shatters under an dying sun...and the person holding the dream..becomes nothing more then a doll, bound by strings in an unforgivening world wondering the what ifs and hiding from the hands that took away so much. Dreams are fragile like glass..one touch and they can shatter into millions of peices..left to lie and unable to repair."

~_~ I wrote that years ago and I brought it back up because of someone who said something about dreams above. It's just something to think about with a clear mind. You know..being the new con's staff are so young.

Amy the Yu
02-03-2005, 09:50 PM
I don't doubt that it's not. I had an idea of how much time and money it takes, that why I think I shall give my support to new cons, because if we didn't it's kinda like sayin screw you when it fails and if the staff is young, that slashes dreams and kids usually look up in dreams, if it is their dream to make something big and happy and wonderful then who am I to spoil it, who are you to spoil it, who are they to spoil it.

Dreams are great and all, but not every single one can be fulfilled. It's still up to the individuals to make their own dreams come true, whether it's a con, a career, whatever.

Running a new con may be someone's dream, but to the thousands of people that they're trying to attract, it's meerly just a con. Not many people are going to think of it like they're going to destroy someone's life if they decide not to go to a convention, and they really shouldn't be thinking like that.

Reaching a goal is only meaningful when it's done through commitment and hard work, and there's no difference between not being able to support a con run by a bunch of teenagers, or one run by an adult.

Maybe you should think about how much you're destroying the dream of the staff of Con no Baka when you decided to not attend that...and what about all the other conventions in the USA that could use more attendees. A lot of them are run by people of relatively young ages.

Schubuttercup
02-03-2005, 09:54 PM
Maybe you should think about how much you're destroying the dream of the staff of Con no Baka when you decided to not attend that...and what about all the other conventions in the USA that could use more attendees. A lot of them are run by people of relatively young ages.
Hey like you said, people choose if their dreams will be fullfilled and..they just kinda blew it. I'm kinda scared of spending money there, it just seems abit off beat to me.

kaliko_rosa
02-03-2005, 11:51 PM
Hey like you said, people choose if their dreams will be fullfilled and..they just kinda blew it. I'm kinda scared of spending money there, it just seems abit off beat to me.

I might have been the one who mentioned the "dream" thing a while back, how organizers of these small cons have such vision for their convention-to-be, and you really get inspired by some of these people. I don't deny that. i surely respect anyone who feels they have what it takes to run a show, and to actually test the field. I'm that kind of person. However, it's easy to forget logic when you're filled with goals and ambition. It can be just as easy to forget the communal good of the local anime community. And just as easily, it's easy for con-goers to forget (like Amy mentioned) that a con has anything to do with anyone's dreams. I agree with the statements here that emphasize the work, time and committment that are needed for a dream like that, and I would accept the fact that perhaps... perhaps... it might be a little too ambitious at this rate. For example, a university out in New Brunswick making a humble attempt at a local convention would have a bigger dream than someone trying it here, because they're serving a community that is in need of their service. Here, we have plenty, and as some mentioned... these dreams are overshadowed by redundancy (sp?) and ill-felt responses. I think that if a person around here has that amount of ambition, they should focus their energy on helping out or starting a considerably farther out convention, or gaining considerable experience from current big cons and later starting up a con somewhere else when they have the age, knowledge, money and means.

And like Katsuyuki_Shiro mentioned, there are SO many other interesting things people with that kind of energy can run. Personally, I'm not THAT big on cons and stuff... like the "con" part.... you know, with the halls and the typical rooms and the typical events. I like it, but not a flippin 8 times in a year. How about something snazzy and different? That's why i thought the dance thing was neat. But you know, dances aren't for everyone.... like myself for example. To boost anime spirit in your own local community, maybe try organizing a park festival/party at a conservation area or recreational centre. I always thought it would be neat to get one of those big gazebo picnic area things at a great conservation area, play anime music, barbecue, and who knows what else! It's different and serves a community that needs something to tide them over when the big cons aren't around.

I don't have as much time as I'd like to devote to cons and volunteering etc., but I did try out something new by starting up a Canadian anime con club, now known as the Anime North Junkies. It almost swallowed me whole with how well the club did, now at 120 members. These people are some of my fave people to have met ever online, and we have incredbily fun times at cons doing our own events and photoshoots. In the off-season, we talk about cons together and help each other out with any inquiries, or casually chat. We can depend on each other at cons as aquaintances and friends. We always randomly talk about having an anime backyard party hosted by us for whomever can make it. I see a lot of other people doing the same thing out there, as young as me, by planning cosplay gatherings, cosplay bowling, or days out in Toronto in full cosplay garb. Anime showings and clubs at universities and high schools are also examples of this leadership that is usually cost-efficient, fun, and inclusive. Sure it's not as "official" as a con, but if a person wanted that, they could create an actual committee for random activities like mentioned, advertise, and make a name. My dream is to make Anime North Junkies a club everyone's heard of (you've heard of it now, haha, I'm succeeding!), and in turn this dream supports the con community.

We have to keep our energy in good perspective, and always creative, because like Mark mentioned, we don't want the "extraordinary to become ordinary". There is no limit to what you can accomplish, but it's best to pick a beneficial direction for yourself and others. Fandom and leadership can co-exist with cons through originality, rather than competing with it by doing the same thing, when it's not always necessary or not beneficial enough to outweigh the costs.

I'd like to keep conventions themselves as a big grand finale worth waiting for! ^_^

HidoshiNobunaga
02-04-2005, 08:18 AM
You go Kaliko! (That should be your catchphrase BTW)

I agree that clubs and smaller events are often the way to go. I have no plans to attend Con no Baka or Ad Astra, because if I do, I'll feel less enthusiastic about something like Anime North. I was really tired out last year from having gone to E3, MTAC, AN, NAF, Otakon,CNA, and then DTAC, and the experiences were starting to become more and more mundane. By the time we hit DTAC, I was going "Ugh, I can't believe I'm here..." and although it ended on a high note for me, I didn't feel like I had enjoyed myself.

It's like I said, too much of one thing isn't a good thing.

I had more fun at Kariya park overall than I did at MTAC, DTAC, and NAF put together, largely because Kariya was a different experience, not just one more con. I should note, I do support NAF because it's an Oshawa con, and I think that's all right. If it were closer to TO, I'd view it with less favour.

Also:

Hey like you said, people choose if their dreams will be fullfilled and..they just kinda blew it.

That's not particularly realistic. I've worked as an organiser and I know how hard it is to motivate people. Even within my own cosplay group, getting everything to work just right can be a huge task, and we're only a handful of people. We're not worrying about paying for floorspace, dealing with merchants, getting sponsorship, etc. A con HAS to worry about those things, and it's not easy. People aren't always convinced that a business enterprise is really worth it.

nuriko001
02-21-2005, 01:00 PM
cons are there to show anime, sell products and rake in the money easy as that.

so why wouldn't there be a lot of cons look how many are in the US.. raking in the dough.. and through anime-genious

all i gotta say

Lafiel
02-21-2005, 03:02 PM
While I do agree with many people that I rather have a few amazing cons then a bunch of medicore ones. Like someone said above.. What was interesting becomes mundane. I actually feel the same way about Cons as I do about the explosion of anime gatherings in the area.

I can relate to maybe some of the pressure(for lack of a better word) that people who like to attend conventions (especially in costume) have. Personally I like having a new costume for each con I go to, so people aren't always seeing the same thing. There is no way I could make a new costume for every convention that is happening in Toronto. As well as if I do go to convention I miss out on meeting new people (though maybe people don't talk to me) and taking pictures... and the potential fun times which could be had.

I realize that while threads like these are good to talk to people who maybe share the same feelings you do. They won't deter people from running their own convention, nor convince other people not to attend other 'said' conventions.

Anyways this is 1 cent of my 2 cents. ^^
You can post as many of these thread as you want but it won't change anything unfortunately, but I hear ya :P

Sarcasm-hime
02-22-2005, 12:55 AM
I don't know, I think it might make somebody reconsider and decide to run a picnic or some smaller event rather than thinking that they have to start up another con. That's my hope, anyways. ^_^;

HidoshiNobunaga
02-22-2005, 02:26 AM
A picnic sounds neat. I also wouldn't mind seeing a manga-centric con, focusing on releases and how manga itself is put together. Drawing anime is all very well (I really hate those how-to books, they so ruin the potential of an artist), but the actual manga techniques would be nice to research and employ.

Amy the Yu
02-22-2005, 03:25 AM
A picnic sounds neat. I also wouldn't mind seeing a manga-centric con, focusing on releases and how manga itself is put together. Drawing anime is all very well (I really hate those how-to books, they so ruin the potential of an artist), but the actual manga techniques would be nice to research and employ.

I think any kind of "specialized" con would be nice as opposed to another random anime con.

I like random gatherings. Most of them tailor to specific interests (ie. skating trip, Naruto Photoshoot), so everyone can pick and choose what they want to attend and not feel bad for missing the other ones. It's also cheaper than cons. I can't express how much I love having the opportunity to see people and not have to worry about having more than bus fare on me. ^^;;

Traxbaby
02-22-2005, 02:43 PM
hm. So basically it's

4 Anime Cons
2 Sci Fi Cons
1 Asian cultural one

Did I miss any?

Chibik3r0
02-22-2005, 03:09 PM
I'm assuming that you're talking about just within the Southern Ontario region... If so, there are way more than 4 anime cons:

March Tac, Anime North, Northern Anime Festival, Garden City Anime Festival, CNAnime (although it does have other aspects), Con No Baka, Dec Tac. That's 7 anime cons that I'm aware of.

There's also non-anime focused cons like Ad Astra, Pandemonium (gaming con this coming weekend actually), and probably a plethora more I'm missing. I tend to keep my fandom within anime so I'm not 100% knowledgable on the non-anime side of conventions.

Traxbaby
02-22-2005, 05:27 PM
Well I meant Anime Cons as in NAF, AN, CNB, MTAC,TAC,CNanime and Sci Fi ones as in Toronto Trek and Ad Astra, and the culture one is GCAF. Since even though it is represented in their name..it's more of an asian one since they build on all the areas equally.

lavender_mists
02-22-2005, 06:00 PM
I actually never realised that there was a large number of conventions near the Toronto area alone, but I have not seen a problem with that yet. People have valid points about how people that start up small ones should try to help out the big ones instead because they are short-handed, I can see how large conventions like those would require so many helping hands.

Perhaps from a marketing perspective that it can be "too much of a good thing" and it will make people go "...ANOTHER convention?" and scoff at the thought of it.

But as much as we can choose whether or not to watch a new anime title, we can choose whether or not that we can acknowledge a convention that had just been born. Even Japanese animation had to start out small at one point in this country, and look at how popular it is now! Now we have a vast selection of titles to choose from, and not all of them would suit our individual tastes however.

Starting a new convention definately has a high risk factor, with the financial issues, marketing, and now... competition with other conventions, but I definately would give people starting their own anime conventions a big big "Ganbatte!!!"

Yes, it's a shame to some because they are not helping out the big ones instead, but I am trying to think whether it would wear out the whole anime fandom. It is a special interest like any other interest that have conventions dedicated to them, and those of its fandom will continue to go to conventions as long as they are a part of it. What does another new convention do bad for them?

There are many of those that scoff at anime fans because we enjoy watching "silly cartoons", but we still do that because we have a love for it.

KrezNabel
02-23-2005, 04:14 AM
I'm assuming that you're talking about just within the Southern Ontario region... If so, there are way more than 4 anime cons:

March Tac, Anime North, Northern Anime Festival, Garden City Anime Festival, CNAnime (although it does have other aspects), Con No Baka, Dec Tac. That's 7 anime cons that I'm aware of.

If you include Ottawa as part of Southern Ontario, there is one, if not two, anime conventions up here: AC^3, and possibly Capital Anime. I'm not sure about the latter, which seems to have fizzled out, but AC-cubed will be on the 19th and 20th of November.

Yuna-X2
02-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Perhaps from a marketing perspective that it can be "too much of a good thing" and it will make people go "...ANOTHER convention?" and scoff at the thought of it.

I think that's the whole point of this thread... People are already saying "Another convention?" and getting bored/poor from these other cons.


If you include Ottawa as part of Southern Ontario, there is one, if not two, anime conventions up here: AC^3, and possibly Capital Anime. I'm not sure about the latter, which seems to have fizzled out, but AC-cubed will be on the 19th and 20th of November.

Is Capital Anime that one that was mentioned before being held at Algonquin College? I consider that convention non-existant because they expect to have it up and running this summer, but haven't done much of anything to get it off the groud. I hope the people running it decided to help with AC^3 instead, because it would be better to have one good con in Ottawa instead of having what's happening in Southern Ontario, with all these small conventions happening, with the big conventions like AnimeNorth still looking for loads of help.

JustinCredible
02-23-2005, 01:39 PM
hm. So basically it's

4 Anime Cons
2 Sci Fi Cons
1 Asian cultural one

Did I miss any?

Comic Book Conventions...

Paradise Comics' Toronto Comicon (http://www.torontocomicon.com/)
Toronto Comic Arts Festival (http://www.torontocomics.com/tcaf/)

StrawberryDuo
02-23-2005, 02:37 PM
HIhi, I don't remember if it was this thread or the other one, but someone mentioned that Niagara was APART of the GTA.....I have proof that, that statement is incorrect.

"The City of Hamilton, Regional Municipality of Niagara and City of Guelph all have significant ties to Toronto and the Greater Toronto Area. Nonetheless, these ties aren't strong enough for them be considered part of the GTA, officially or otherwise.

These are areas of the GTA:

Town of Ajax
Town of Aurora
City of Barrie
Town of Bradford-West Gwillimbury
City of Brampton
Township of Brock
City of Burlington
Town of Caledon
Municipality of Clarington
Town of East Gwillimbury
Town of Georgina
Town of Halton Hills
Town of Innisfil
Township of King
Town of Markham
Town of Milton
City of Mississauga
Town of Mono
Town of Newmarket
Town of New Tecumseth
Town of Oakville
Town of Orangeville
City of Oshawa
City of Pickering
Town of Richmond Hill
Township of Scugog
City of Toronto
Township of Uxbridge
City of Vaughan
Town of Whitby
Town of Whitchurch-Stouffville

Regional Municipality of Niagara, is an area covering 12 municipalities, including th cities of Niagara Falls, Port Colborne, St. Catharines, Thorold, and Welland; the towns of Fort Erie, Grimsby, Lincoln, Niagara-on-the-Lake, and Pelham; and the townships of Wainfleet and West Lincoln, covering 1850 square kilometres. The regional seat is in Thorold. The Niagara region is host to more than 12 million visitors a year. Tourism is a booming industry in this region. Niagara, which covers 1896 sq. km (715 sq. miles), is made up of 12 unique and distinct local municipalities. Varying from the larger populated cities of St. Catharines and Niagara Falls with their urban intensive features, to Wainfleet and West Lincoln with a more rural or natural area setting. Tourism, industry and farming, not to mention all the natural resources including our vast mineral resources (pits and quarries) and environmental resources (peat and petroleum), all add to Niagara’s economic diversity."

I Know that's alot...but it gives more truth then lies and can give people an reality update, instead of some of the untrue info posted on this thread.

Kia
02-23-2005, 03:20 PM
:: sigh :: Too bad the GTA doesn't just mean Toronto anymore ... anything outside of that just gets confusing.

Yuna-X2
02-23-2005, 03:40 PM
This is just a non-Southern Ontario person talking here, but to anyone outside of the area, that whole area seems like one big city. I took a bus to Niagara once, and I couldn't tell when Toronto ended. I'm sure if you're from Niagara, you know you're not part of the GTA, but it all looks the same to us "outsiders" :P

Sarcasm-hime
02-23-2005, 05:12 PM
I think the point was that the Niagara region is close enough to Toronto that they're all sort of in the same area, and their pools of attendees would overlap (i.e. be drawing from some of the same groups of people). I think that cons usually draw people from within 2-3 hours away, so that includes the whole general area.

Arguing the technicalities of what is and isn't in the GTA is kind of ignoring the point we were trying to make, which was that too many cons within the same general area isn't a great idea. -_-;

Amy the Yu
02-23-2005, 06:38 PM
I think the point was that the Niagara region is close enough to Toronto that they're all sort of in the same area, and their pools of attendees would overlap (i.e. be drawing from some of the same groups of people). I think that cons usually draw people from within 2-3 hours away, so that includes the whole general area.

GCAF is to TO as most the USA cons are to the major cities down there. The east coast of the USA is quite full of anime cons through out the year, but they're much more spread out than even the 2 hour drive from TO to the Niagara region. My friends in Philadelphia all travel at least 1-4 hours to all their NEAREST conventions, and most of those are further away than it would be for someone living in TO to go down to St. Catherine's or someone from there to attend a con in TO.

I Know that's alot...but it gives more truth then lies and can give people an reality update, instead of some of the untrue info posted on this thread.

No one's been saying that Niagara is IN Toronto, but it's undeniable that it's within easily reachable distance even if you don't own a car. It takes less than 2 hours by Greyhound (I timed it both on my trip down to Katsu and on the way back this past weekend) and that includes 2 additional stops that aren't exactly "en route".

StrawberryDuo
02-23-2005, 06:55 PM
No one's been saying that Niagara is IN Toronto, but it's undeniable that it's within easily reachable distance even if you don't own a car. It takes less than 2 hours by Greyhound (I timed it both on my trip down to Katsu and on the way back this past weekend) and that includes 2 additional stops that aren't exactly "en route".

Once again there seems to be selective reading here. I never said people said that Niagara was apart of Toronto, I just started that people stated Niagara was apart of the GTA and as you can see the people were completely wrong.

This is just a non-Southern Ontario person talking here, but to anyone outside of the area, that whole area seems like one big city. I took a bus to Niagara once, and I couldn't tell when Toronto ended. I'm sure if you're from Niagara, you know you're not part of the GTA, but it all looks the same to us "outsiders" :P

I have never been to Niagara...I just know that as much as people in Toronto or been to Toronto...nothing looks like Toronto....not only that but highway signs should of gave a clue and if you can't tell the different between Toronto and Niagara then you really should be in Geography again.

I really think there isn't ENOUGH cons..can't have too much of a good thing.

Seed-chan
02-23-2005, 07:14 PM
I really think there isn't ENOUGH cons..can't have too much of a good thing.
Oh please, it is possible to have too much of a good thing. WAY TOO possible. Be it candy, sugar, rock music, or conventions. Hell, the kid with the highest mark in my chemistry class last week said himself "I don't need another high mark" (Of course, we just kinda threw stuff at him after he said that...)

Everything should be taken in <i>moderation</i>.

And con aren't really THAT much of a good thing, considering how... boring they've become. (When they're all the same, or the same as social events, it's blah. Give me BLAM! please. I want originality. I want freebies damnit >_> )

I personally hope there's gonna be some natural selection happening, because I too believe that there's too many conventions popping up. Personally, it's more like: Too many conventions not worth my money. Because even CN isn't worth paying the $40 ($45?) for.

I'm gonna say something that was said before: "We need a few really GOOD cons, rather than a ton of mediocre ones."

Yuna-X2
02-23-2005, 07:45 PM
I'm gonna say something that was said before: "We need a few really GOOD cons, rather than a ton of mediocre ones."


HERE HERE! *seconds the motion* All those who want to make a convention, just go volunteer and run panels in the big cons like AN and CNA. Share your wisdom without charging us more than we need to to get into a con every other month. Many travel into the city only once or twice to go to AN and CNA, so running a panel or new event at these big cons would be seen by more people anyways than if shown at some small convention that people lose track of with the other new cons.

Schubuttercup
02-23-2005, 10:26 PM
Really, too many con's aren't a big deal, your right, we need a few good ones, but the question is, how do you know what's good or bad if you don't attend. The only way to say this con sucks and that con rocked is if you actually attend. So basically, everyone has their own opinons, some might say it rocked but others may say it was a lame butt event, I want my money back. That's why I don't rely on reviews, because what the reviewer says that sucks, may be just another treasure for me.

So before you judge...go to one with an open mind and then come back here and tell us what you think.

Chibik3r0
02-23-2005, 11:03 PM
Really, too many con's aren't a big deal, your right, we need a few good ones, but the question is, how do you know what's good or bad if you don't attend. The only way to say this con sucks and that con rocked is if you actually attend. So basically, everyone has their own opinons, some might say it rocked but others may say it was a lame butt event, I want my money back. That's why I don't rely on reviews, because what the reviewer says that sucks, may be just another treasure for me.

So before you judge...go to one with an open mind and then come back here and tell us what you think.

I think part of the thing about too many cons is being able to afford it financially and for those of us who have jobs and busy schedules, finding time. I'm a fourth year university student. By the time I graduate in April, I'll have something like $10,000 in student loans to start paying back once I start getting full time employment with my shiny new degree.

I'm going to limit my local convention spending to cons I know I want to go to that have made a name for themselves, like Anime North, that I know I'll have a good time at seeing friends and enjoying the large crowds. I'm not saying I wouldn't have a good time if I went to GCAF, but financially, I'm personally not willing to go out on a limb to test these new cons until I hear people say they had the most unbelievable time of their lives.

Word of mouth goes a long way in the convention community. Judging from what a lot of people have said about Katsucon this past weekend, I don't think I'll ever attend. Conventions and cosplay combined are big financial investments, just like any planned vacation.

Not everyone can afford to test the water of every new convention that pops up. Sure, "Bob's Con" or whatever the new flavor of the week may be, might be a great time but if there is someone out there who can afford and find the time to go to EVERY convention (anime or not) in the Toronto and Niagara region and have a good time at every convention and start spreading the word of the next not-to-miss convention, I'd like to meet them. It's just not feasible.

Just my opinion.

Schubuttercup
02-23-2005, 11:13 PM
Well, I'm a 3yr college student...GO POLICE FORCE...ahem. Well I still find time, I know alot of us are suffering for time and money, I know how you all feel. I owe 30,000 to the Police Foundation T_T and I work at Mcdonalds. What I do is set up funds and spread my pay check about...it makes up for it in the end. All I have to pay for is attendance and some spending money, my parents provide food and if we can't we live off of tv dinners or boxes of cereal. =_=

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 12:08 AM
Well, I'm a 3yr college student...GO POLICE FORCE...ahem. Well I still find time, I know alot of us are suffering for time and money, I know how you all feel. I owe 30,000 to the Police Foundation T_T and I work at Mcdonalds. What I do is set up funds and spread my pay check about...it makes up for it in the end. All I have to pay for is attendance and some spending money, my parents provide food and if we can't we live off of tv dinners or boxes of cereal. =_=

Most people also have the insane hotel fees to pay for. Even in super overfilled rooms (I've shared a room w/ 8 other ppl before), it still works out to at least $20/night/person.

I've managed to get through AN and CN volunteering to avoid the reg fees (or actually, get them refunded), but for some other cons (ie. Ad Astra) they don't do that the first year, or they require some insane hours (ie. Otakon requires 16 hours plus a manditory gopher meeting that I can't make cause of work).

A lot of people also don't have the chance to hold a part time job due to really messed up class schedules. I attempted to find a job last fall, but even though my classes was reduced from 28 hours in my first year to 21 hours, it was still so messed up that all I got was "well, I could use more help, but your schedule just doesn't work for us, sorry." and there are no weekend only jobs like the nice banquet hall waitress gig I did during my OAC year.

lavender_mists
02-24-2005, 12:30 AM
So basically... having too many conventions mean that conventions goers are spending a lot of money and are not satisfied with it? Good point for not going to those small conventions, but hey, we have the large conventions that people adore already. (No, I'm not trying to mock those that have said that as another point. Don't shoot those arrows at critical points please, but I'm getting the jist of some of the many points made, they seem to be a part of the main ones.) Like my comparison of how many conventions versus how many different anime titles there are... we, the ones who fork up the money to go to these conventions, are able to choose if we are to go or not. Like how we choose to patron one restaurant over the many that exist.

We know which ones are small and which ones are big. Thus... save up your hard earned money and go to the ones that you know will not be a waste of that cash and time? You might miss one convention (that may be small or large in size...) but come on... there are others for you to attend!

As for getting bored of the conventions well... if you actually do go to the small conventions, a convention goer should know what to expect in comparison to a large one. Unless you were conned (No pun intended) into thinking that it was "the biggest show on earth!!! Be there or be square!!!" then perhaps everyone will definately have something to complain about.

Scoti
02-24-2005, 01:03 AM
So basically... having too many conventions mean that conventions goers are spending a lot of money and are not satisfied with it? Good point for not going to those small conventions, but hey, we have the large conventions that people adore already. (No, I'm not trying to mock those that have said that as another point. Don't shoot those arrows at critical points please, but I'm getting the jist of some of the many points made, they seem to be a part of the main ones.) Like my comparison of how many conventions versus how many different anime titles there are... we, the ones who fork up the money to go to these conventions, are able to choose if we are to go or not. Like how we choose to patron one restaurant over the many that exist........



Exactly…. I don't even know why this topic has dragged on for so long when really the solution is just not going, saving your money, and spending it at a con of your choice.

people have to realize that while everyone feels their "con experts" and have a list of what they expect for their $40 weekend pass, there is still a lot of people who are just testing the waters in the convention scene and are maybe too intimidated by the overwhelming crowds that AN and CN bring.

Sarcasm-hime
02-24-2005, 03:53 PM
Exactly…. I don't even know why this topic has dragged on for so long when really the solution is just not going, saving your money, and spending it at a con of your choice.

people have to realize that while everyone feels their "con experts" and have a list of what they expect for their $40 weekend pass, there is still a lot of people who are just testing the waters in the convention scene and are maybe too intimidated by the overwhelming crowds that AN and CN bring.

Again, the OTHER major point we're trying to get across is that because there are so many cons already, there is no need for people to keep starting up new ones. Especially since the existing cons desperately need committed people to help run them. If the volunteers are spread too thinly, ALL the conventions will suffer as none of them will have enough people to run things properly. :P

Lafiel
02-24-2005, 04:14 PM
While I agree, more man power towards current cons.
I see one small problem of suggesting Volunteering in a replacement for those who want to run a con.

I know many cons claim that Volunteers have a say, but lets be honest.. they don't really. How do I know this? because I have seen many people volunteer for a con, and while suggestions are always welcome they are usual fall on deaf ears. Maybe thats why the new convention planners think that at least by running their own convention they can do things they way they want to do things. To be something more then a Gopher isn't that every otakus dream :D

Now don't confuse Staff with volunteers :) Staff members tend to have a bit more say then the volunteers, generally in charge of running certain departments. Most of the time volunteers have a hell of a time working their way up to staff then if they are lucky.. an executive. Its possible, but I haven't seen it done often or quickly.

While we are on the topic of volunteering, maybe if their were more volunteers to choose from we could have screening processes :D Wishful thinking I know, but a friend of mine suggested that cons have this, to prevent the same 'bad' people get on staff every year... For instance... uptight security *whistles*

I have to admit I have really enjoy reading this thread, it is interesting to see everyones input and different reasons for agreeing and disagreeing. A lot of points I would have never thought of :)

Sarcasm-hime
02-24-2005, 06:00 PM
Hey, I know AN is definitely looking for both volunteers AND staff. They have trouble getting new staff because staff members have more responsibilities, and it seems that many fans don't want to put in the work. If people are committed and responsible, it shouldn't be hard to become staff as there is a big shortage these days. No, you won't become an Exec right away, but it would be really good experience to work as a volunteer or a staff member at a large con for a little while so you can learn how things work, then maybe think about running your own con. ^_^

(mind you this is just in relation to AN, as I'm on staff there. Other cons may be different)

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 06:39 PM
Hey, I know AN is definitely looking for both volunteers AND staff. They have trouble getting new staff because staff members have more responsibilities, and it seems that many fans don't want to put in the work. If people are committed and responsible, it shouldn't be hard to become staff as there is a big shortage these days.

Having volunteered a hell of a lot at cons, I can vouch for myself and a good number of my fellow volunteers that the reason we don't go for staff isn't cause we can't get up there, it's cause we enjoy being able to help out and still have our cake...or our sweet time spent in the dealers' room or at whatever else catches our eye from the program.

There have been many times that people pick volunteering over staff so we can keep our freedom. Even the volunteers that spend almost the entire con working, most still don't want to go up to being actual staff for the sake of being able to get time off if they suddenly wanted it.

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 07:08 PM
Really, I retire myself from these types of topics because..goodness someone said it earlier but I'll just bring it up again, that saying that there is too many isn't gonna put a stop to it..you all can try and tell people that it's a waste of time, but it's still gonna happen. I don't doubt next year there will be 3 more con's happening.

The thing is either there are two many or not, it's still not even a problem yet...will cons like NAF and GCAF harm AN? I didn't think so being AN is two months before and I would rather go to NAF and GCAF then CNanime...I'm sorry but last year was the last straw.

Now for staff issue, I think AN might need to reorganize how they run their event, with a group that big they shouldn't really be having problems. Overlooking last year's staff list, An has more people in little events then in big events. If AN moved their staff around, I know for sure there wouldn't be a huge problem. If AN staff work hard enough, share weight and whatnot, no problems should arise.

I myself have no idea on running cons, but it isn't as hard to actually run a business. Being AN is so big, it would be called more of an Econ. Development then Social...but anyways, look there was one good japanese con and nows theres 4, that is a good thing for me, because they offer things differently and I haven't been to one con last year that was the same as AN..it's bascially all how you look at things.

Now I don't want to sound hosile, oh dear never will I, but I just like to point out about people whining about travel and money, there are some people who travel alot further then you, have less money and barely no ways of getting there and still manage to go to every con they would love to be at and really that should tell you something.

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 08:10 PM
I myself have no idea on running cons

I think you shot yourself in the foot right there with that line. I won't comment any further cause I don't think I even need to touch on any details after you said this.

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 08:42 PM
Amy, please. I know how to run a business, afterall I'm teaching business classes. Anime North is a business and they are running it in circles. Back when it first came out, it was a good thing, now it's grown so big not even the staff know what's going on anymore. The question is, how much more must we hear about how AN needs more staff and volunteers, or how much do we need to hear about Too many cons and your the one whom always starts heated topics like these.

Now...it seems we should look at the bright side, Too Many Cons can be both bad and good, depending on your situation. It's good for people who either A) Never heard of Anime North, B) Can't get to Anime North or C) Wants something new. But it's bad for Anime North because they loose volunteers...wait a min..How do you lose volunteers or staff that are very much needed when Anime North is before these newer cons?

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 08:56 PM
Amy, please. I know how to run a business, afterall I'm teaching business classes. Anime North is a business

Untrue. Anime North is a non-profit organization. I doubt there are many businesses out there that are in the same position. AN isn't even a "charitable organization". They do not run aiming to maximize profits. They run to break even and any more is donated.

The staff are doing their "jobs" on a voluntary basis. They are not paid, they can't be expected to put their entire lives into it.

What you're trying to apply to AN would be put to better use applying to CN, which IS going for profit and staff members are paid.

And if you are to "retire" from a topic, perhaps you should stop posting.

Yuna-X2
02-24-2005, 09:01 PM
Now I don't want to sound hosile, oh dear never will I, but I just like to point out about people whining about travel and money, there are some people who travel alot further then you, have less money and barely no ways of getting there and still manage to go to every con they would love to be at and really that should tell you something.

What should it tell us? It tells me some people don't know what a priority is. I know if someone tried to tell me they were financially troubled, eating 40 cent boxes of Mac&Cheese every day, and then tell me they're still going to pay $300 to go to a con, I would laugh right in their face. ($300 is about how much I'll spend on admission, hotels and transportation) That's not good financial planning.


The concern is not about if we can really afford it though. The main concern is that the GTA will suffer from the "tragedy of the commons". Basically, individual interests conflict with the common good. Everyone wants a convention, for any which reason. However, there is only so much interest in convention going. Before, this energy went towards two major conventions, AN and CNA. However, as more conventions pop up, this energy is split between 6, 8, 10 conventions. Clearly, this means that less energy will go into each convention than before because they have to share. If a convention has less energy than before, it will obviously weaken because the support is now for more than just two conventions. It continues until the conventions are so weak, they all collapse.

It's not a matter of people's dreams to run a convention, or wanting to help support the interest in anime. Many don't want a convention a month or something like that, because it becomes overkill really, and the interest fades to quickly.

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 09:13 PM
Actually It is still a business. A non-profit organization is still a business.

What should it tell us? It tells me some people don't know what a priority is. I know if someone tried to tell me they were financially troubled, eating 40 cent boxes of Mac&Cheese every day, and then tell me they're still going to pay $300 to go to a con, I would laugh right in their face. ($300 is about how much I'll spend on admission, hotels and transportation) That's not good financial planning.

I myself would never laugh in someone's face for that. If I didn't do that and they were I would just see how much more commited they are as a person. As long as they do what they need such as getting food and space and aiming cheap, I don't see why they shouldn't do that if that is what they love to do. I spend 500 every year going to Anime North alone, that's including travel, hotel, admission and food. But I am low so it's not so bad, plus with my student loan paid off I can afford more cons then I could before.


The concern is not about if we can really afford it though. The main concern is that the GTA will suffer from the "tragedy of the commons". Basically, individual interests conflict with the common good. Everyone wants a convention, for any which reason. However, there is only so much interest in convention going. Before, this energy went towards two major conventions, AN and CNA. However, as more conventions pop up, this energy is split between 6, 8, 10 conventions. Clearly, this means that less energy will go into each convention than before because they have to share. If a convention has less energy than before, it will obviously weaken because the support is now for more than just two conventions. It continues until the conventions are so weak, they all collapse.
This goes back to the business thing. I'm gonna use this as an example. On one of my streets there is a Jumbo Video, BlockBuster, That's Entertainment and a Joe's video store. All sell the same thing, all have the same thing and yet all can exist with each other on the same street without any failing business. Block Buster and That's Entertianment are right across the street from each other. Another street has a Pizza Hut, Pizza Pizza 15 mins from each other and a Starbucks and a Tim Hortons. Neither are getting poor business.

Do you see what I mean, Conventions can co-exist with each other without conflict. The only conflicts that occur are those done by the attendees who rather in anger, annoyance or fear decide not to go to other cons. The thing is you need to see this though different eyes, because it seems that the two cons we had are becoming not only defensive but greedy in attendance and area as well.

Yuna-X2
02-24-2005, 09:24 PM
Conventions are not movie stores, coffee shops or pizza places. You don't pay $40+ to get in to Blockbuster. Blockbuster will not suffer if I choose to go to Giant Tiger instead, and neither will boom if I go to both. A convention will not suffer if I don't go. But if 200 of us are so broke from the 3 previous conventions and can't go to the next con which is smaller, that con will suffer. And those who can afford it will get fed up with cons by the end of the year. Not everyone will, but MANY will. This thread shows how many people see the various problems with these multiple conventions.

I'm pretty sure that people don't go to cons for reasons other than "anger annoyance or fear". Transportation, school/jobs, money are all big barriers to not going to conventions.

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 09:30 PM
Conventions are not movie stores, coffee shops or pizza places. You don't pay $40+ to get in to Blockbuster. Blockbuster will not suffer if I choose to go to Giant Tiger instead, and neither will boom if I go to both. A convention will not suffer if I don't go. But if 200 of us are so broke from the 3 previous conventions and can't go to the next con which is smaller, that con will suffer. And those who can afford it will get fed up with cons by the end of the year. Not everyone will, but MANY will. This thread shows how many people see the various problems with these multiple conventions.

I'm pretty sure that people don't go to cons for reasons other than "anger annoyance or fear". Transportation, school/jobs, money are all big barriers to not going to conventions.

It seems you still didn't get what I said. I said..Conventions are a business. Either an organization or not, World Vision is a business. I compared those places to cons because I was trying to show that there is no way a convention can loose people. The thing is the biggest con in ON is Anime North..everyone goes there. However, Anime North is in May. Their attendance will not be affect by any new con because they are in ..JULY and NOVEMBER..People will attend Anime North and then decide where else to go after that.

I know Transportation, school/jobs, money are a problem for some people. It's life, it's a problem for everyone. But if you can make to one of the most hated cons in the fan community I think you can make it inless you use Go Transit or the train to any of the new cons.

Chibik3r0
02-24-2005, 09:36 PM
Now I don't want to sound hosile, oh dear never will I, but I just like to point out about people whining about travel and money, there are some people who travel alot further then you, have less money and barely no ways of getting there and still manage to go to every con they would love to be at and really that should tell you something.

These people exist and I hate to say it, they usually don't get very far in life. Necessities of life are way more important than a con. Some people need to realize that and have some common sense knocked into them. If I didn't have the money, I wouldn't go to a con.

This goes back to the business thing. I'm gonna use this as an example. On one of my streets there is a Jumbo Video, BlockBuster, That's Entertainment and a Joe's video store. All sell the same thing, all have the same thing and yet all can exist with each other on the same street without any failing business. Block Buster and That's Entertianment are right across the street from each other. Another street has a Pizza Hut, Pizza Pizza 15 mins from each other and a Starbucks and a Tim Hortons. Neither are getting poor business.

Do you see what I mean, Conventions can co-exist with each other without conflict. The only conflicts that occur are those done by the attendees who rather in anger, annoyance or fear decide not to go to other cons. The thing is you need to see this though different eyes, because it seems that the two cons we had are becoming not only defensive but greedy in attendance and area as well.

We had a Video 99 and Jumbo Video on the same street. Blockbuster opened, Jumbo Video closed several months later. Tim Hortons also dominates in my town. Several other donut stores have come and gone and others never EVER have customers in the store. Having worked at one of them at one point, I have no idea how the owner financially made ends meet unless he cut some corners. You're pretty much guaranteed to find someone in Tim Hortons in my town no matter what time of day you go in. Mind you, this is only a town of 20,000 people. It obviously varies from city to city.

And it's not anger, annoyance, or fear to decide not to go to other cons, it's convenience. I'm not scared of, annoyed, or pissed off at GCAF or NAF or Con No Baka. MONEY is an issue. Money scares me way more than another convention ever would.

Bigger cons attract bigger stars and bigger events. Simple. Although Arizona01 seems to be an exception getting Amano in their first year >_> Obviously, speaking only for myself, I'd rather go to a convention with a big name for itself and spend my money wisely. Not all of us have school loans paid off, have jobs, have parents willing to financially support our hobbies, have vehicles for easy convenience.

I don't hear the people from Anime North whining about new conventions appearing. It's my understanding that Con no Baka is being started by another AN staff member. He certainly doesn't seem afraid to start up anything new.

CN may be a bit more greedy, since they are a profit con. If any of the two cons need to be concerned with the plethora of cons, it would be CN. Although most of the baby cons seem to be done through Hobbystar, like MTAC and DTAC.

It seems you still didn't get what I said. I said..Conventions are a business. Either an organization or not, World Vision is a business. I compared those places to cons because I was trying to show that there is no way a convention can loose people. The thing is the biggest con in ON is Anime North..everyone goes there. However, Anime North is in May. Their attendance will not be affect by any new con because they are in ..JULY and NOVEMBER..People will attend Anime North and then decide where else to go after that.

I beg to differ. Name brand plays a part in most shopping that people do. People may be willing to pay more for a familiar name brand even though it may be the same product as the noname brand. People are afraid of the unknown from time to time and that the performance of the product (or convention in this case) may vary.

And from what you said, I'd say the new cons would suffer unless they open up before Anime North. Anime North doesn't really lose anything from all these cons opening up. So for the 5 cons that start next year, maybe they need to plan them for January - April XD

Yuna-X2
02-24-2005, 09:40 PM
Gee, for retiring from subjects like these, you sure say a lot.

Anywho, my concern is not that AnimeNorth loses congoers, but that overkill ruins the interest in anime in the GTA. I was talking to somebody from SOAP in Ottawa, and they were telling me about how this happened in the Capital Region years ago. Anime clubs were everywhere, to the point where it was insane and people got sick of it. the clubs began to collapse, and anime disappeared for quite a few years. CarletonU only started their club again 2 years ago, UOttawa last year. Nobody wants that to happen again in the GTA. That is the main concern, not money, not timing. That's what I mean when I say tragedy of the commons. Too much of a good thing is almost as bad as not enough of a good thing.

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 09:51 PM
And from what you said, I'd say the new cons would suffer unless they open up before Anime North. Anime North doesn't really lose anything from all these cons opening up. So for the 5 cons that start next year, maybe they need to plan them for January - April XD

One question, why would they start before Anime North, Anime North runs once a year then it was usually CNanime. If they started before people who attend these cons might not have enough money for Anime North and well..then Anime North will suffer.

These people exist and I hate to say it, they usually don't get very far in life. Necessities of life are way more important than a con. Some people need to realize that and have some common sense knocked into them. If I didn't have the money, I wouldn't go to a con.
Not everyone will share that view, some might though, but I dont inless these people are EXTREMELY poor...or using welfare to pay for cons >.<

Bigger cons attract bigger stars and bigger events. Simple. Although Arizona01 seems to be an exception getting Amano in their first year >_> Obviously, speaking only for myself, I'd rather go to a convention with a big name for itself and spend my money wisely. Not all of us have school loans paid off, have jobs, have parents willing to financially support our hobbies, have vehicles for easy convenience.

I myself never go to conventions for guests, I don't see a reason why. I just go for the dealers room, Masq and meet new and old friends. I could care less of Utada Hikaru was a guest.

I don't hear the people from Anime North whining about new conventions appearing. It's my understanding that Con no Baka is being started by another AN staff member. He certainly doesn't seem afraid to start up anything new.
I didn't say they were whining, complaining more likely. God that is such a bad name for event...

CN may be a bit more greedy, since they are a profit con. If any of the two cons need to be concerned with the plethora of cons, it would be CN. Although most of the baby cons seem to be done through Hobbystar, like MTAC and DTAC.
I think no one should be worried about Hobbystar..they just seem like in a few years CNanime won't exist and it will just be MTAC and DTAC. Even though I will never ever go to any hobbystar event again.

Anywho, my concern is not that AnimeNorth loses congoers, but that overkill ruins the interest in anime in the GTA
I think it's been said in a big post up above that only 2 of the new cons are in the GTA.

As for saying alot...sometimes you have to, so your point gets across.

Yuna-X2
02-24-2005, 09:54 PM
One question, why would they start before Anime North, Anime North runs once a year then it was usually CNanime. If they started before people who attend these cons might not have enough money for Anime North and well..then Anime North will suffer.


I think that's what they meant... Why go after AN if you know your fanbase will be more poor? If the minicon planners thought like that, they would get more of the fans who want to go to every convention.

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 10:10 PM
I still don't see how their fanbase would be poorer? Inless everyone wanted money for Cnanime or an american con.

Yuna-X2
02-24-2005, 10:13 PM
Well, if you have limited income and spend it all on conventions that happen before AN, then you can't afford to go to AN.

Tsukasa_1
02-24-2005, 10:17 PM
I highly suggest this topic to be locked.

1. By the way, a non-profit organization is a corporation, and has to follow the same laws and procedures under the corporation act.

2. I am not going to comment any further on this topic other then the fact that reading this saddens me not just as a organizer whom is planning and INVESTING into an event of which gets reactions such as this, but also as a FAN.

that is my 'nice' version of what I have to say.

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 10:19 PM
I myself never go to conventions for guests, I don't see a reason why. I just go for the dealers room, Masq and meet new and old friends. I could care less of Utada Hikaru was a guest.

I didn't say they were whining, complaining more likely. God that is such a bad name for event...

I think no one should be worried about Hobbystar..they just seem like in a few years CNanime won't exist and it will just be MTAC and DTAC. Even though I will never ever go to any hobbystar event again.

The larger dealers will often chose the larger cons as well. Canada customs are a bitch for dealers trying to cross the border to come here for cons (and they're a bitch with a lot of other stuff too). I doubt that they'd be willing to go through the same thing to come up for so many cons.

Con no Baka have a bad name? Oh lord yes. I think that's undeniable except to the con chair who seems to be in denial. Despite what he'd love to think about the name meaning, most people will think that "StupidCon" or "IdiotCon" would be a good translation of the name. He doesn't seem to realize most people don't understand Japanese enough to think of any other possible puns the name could mean. -_-;;

I doubt CN would dissappear. It's still about 3 times the size of AN overall. If anything, only the anime part of it would end. They have what...5 things (anime, comic book, sci-fi, horror and gaming) stuffed into one expo now. They're still making good money, and since I only really know the anime crowd, I'm assuming that their other aspects aren't really so terribly scorned (or their attendance rate doesn't seem to reflect it anyway).

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 10:20 PM
Well, if you have limited income and spend it all on conventions that happen before AN, then you can't afford to go to AN.
That's what I just said!

As for Mark, If you wish this topic to be locked, in which I wouldnt mind, just im the Admin and ask for him to delete this or lock this. No doubt though if more con's start it will be back up again, Sorry dude, Don't worry I am a supporter of your convention.^^

Con no Baka have a bad name? Oh lord yes. I think that's undeniable except to the con chair who seems to be in denial. Despite what he'd love to think about the name meaning, most people will think that "StupidCon" or "IdiotCon" would be a good translation of the name. He doesn't seem to realize most people don't understand Japanese enough to think of any other possible puns the name could mean. -_-;;
Actually it means Con of Idiots or Con of Stupid.

I doubt CN would dissappear. It's still about 3 times the size of AN overall. If anything, only the anime part of it would end. They have what...5 things (anime, comic book, sci-fi, horror and gaming) stuffed into one expo now. They're still making good money, and since I only really know the anime crowd, I'm assuming that their other aspects aren't really so terribly scorned (or their attendance rate doesn't seem to reflect it anyway).
I didn't say CN itself I meant their anime section. I don't know why people still attend it, it's overpriced and lacks any interest.

Yuna-X2
02-24-2005, 10:27 PM
No matter what it translates to, it's very hard to take a convention that calls either the con itself or those attending stupid seriously. "Convention of idiots" is just as silly looking as IdiotCon, IMO.

Tsukasa_1
02-24-2005, 10:29 PM
As for Mark, If you wish this topic to be locked, in which I wouldnt mind, just im the Admin and ask for him to delete this or lock this. No doubt though if more con's start it will be back up again, Sorry dude, Don't worry I am a supporter of your convention.^^


The problem here is, this topic has become exactly the same type of thread that occured the the GCAF topics, which is 'FANS' vs. 'CONS'- and whats going to happen is some of the organizers are going to come on here and say something they may regret.

Although I dont really see this topic fully applying to NAF considering the fact we're not new this year and when we orginally started out, there was only two other well known conventions.

Anyways thats it from me, just be aware these people who are planning these events arent just organizers, they are fans like the rest of us and have the feelings too, they are not some corporation big wigs.

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 10:31 PM
No matter what it translates to, it's very hard to take a convention that calls either the con itself or those attending stupid seriously. "Convention of idiots" is just as silly looking as IdiotCon, IMO.

Apparently it was supposed to be some sort of pun for a con to fool around at. Somehow it was thought that people would read their title and immediately think of their jester mascot. -_-;;

The actual meaning of the name's been debated on another thread and the conclusion...no matter how you translate it it still sounds really, really weird.

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 10:35 PM
By the way, a non-profit organization is a corporation, and has to follow the same laws and procedures under the corporation act.

Anyways thats it from me, just be aware these people who are planning these events arent just organizers, they are fans like the rest of us and have the feelings too, they are not some corporation big wigs.

From what you're saying, AN sounds like it's getting labelled as a giant corporate evil or something. Last I knew, people running AN are just as much fans as people running any other con. The scale of the con is just larger.

Tsukasa_1
02-24-2005, 10:41 PM
From what you're saying, AN sounds like it's getting labelled as a giant corporate evil or something. Last I knew, people running AN are just as much fans as people running any other con. The scale of the con is just larger.

I have great respect for those who run AN and vice a versa, it is very rude to assume I was refer to AN there considering NAF is non-profit organzation as well, but reguardless of whos running it we are all in the corporate world as soon as we apply to be an non-profit organization, i know considering I holding the documents in my hand right now saying "Ontario Corporation.... " , "Form 2: Corporation without shared capital".

Kitchen
02-24-2005, 10:53 PM
I wish people could just keep to themselves...everyone has phones...use them. Why clutter a good fourm with heated nonesense. Really is it gonna make the new cons go away or create new ones...people might see this and say HEY let's make them mad and create an another con! Cause because they read this thread then some might say Let's not go to this new con, the people on this thread whom are con going elders aren't going and saying it's gonna be bad news, which taints events before they even go on.

Really alot of you against new cons may be putting your foots in your mouths

Tsukasa_1
02-24-2005, 11:00 PM
I've made sure what I said was not aimed at anyone in general, I only stated a fact considering theres event(s) that are hosted by the Ontario Arts Concil and such who 'The big Wigs' could careless what people say, but for all of us convention organizations including AN we do care what people say, and we take that in account for furture planning.

But like I said, this topic should be locked before it becomes an all out battle, I have contacted the admin and hope that this will be locked shortly- and maybe next time if someone has a concern they will go directly to the organizers instead of making a public thread which will turn out to be something like this.

Amy the Yu
02-24-2005, 11:02 PM
To all people who don't like this thread:

STOP FEEDING IT!

If all those who disagree with the subject of this thread ignored the thread, there's nothing to argue about, the thread doesn't last long after the initial discussion fizzles out.

Yuna-X2
02-24-2005, 11:08 PM
This thread was dead for a while. *wonders what sparked it again*

I agree with Amy. This thread isn't meant to argue if the topic should be debated, but more the concerns, pros and cons to having multiple cons. If you take them as attacks, they'll be seen as attacks. Or it could just be discussion. Take it as you will.