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TsukiGuujin
02-04-2003, 02:51 PM
Hi! I'm here to promote Dream Legend Studios's (http://www.angelfire.com/empire/dreamlegendstudios) video game in progress! YAY!

First, I'm Tsuki Guujin, blah blah blah, I co-run Dream Legend, and all of that. Intro=over now.

The game is called "Pretzel Crisis."

Yes, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "That just sounds stupid." And yes, it does. ^^ But it's anything but. Think about this. If you were to hide ultimate power, would you hide it in some obvious form, or something no one would suspect? Well, YOU'RE not in charge! MWAH! So for all purposes of this game, it's hidden inside some ordinary, not really suspicious form: a pretzel. With mustard on it.

The game is going to be an FF-style RPG. You know what I mean...roaming worlds, massive spells, stuff like that.

Here are some of the characters, just to interest you! ^^

Kaori
Kaori (http://images.cosplay.com/showphoto.php?photo=21431) (not pronounced like you're thinking...it's pronounced "Kay-oh-ree) is the son of a Demon Lord. As we all know, that doesn't make him a bad guy! He's the main character of Pretzel Crisis, and is really skeptical about power being hidden in a pretzel. He carries a spear and almost always wears a metal mask to hide his silver eyes.

Guujin
Guujin is a porcelain doll that Kaori brings to life with some magic water. Her spirit is ancient, even though she seems naive most of the time. She has the ability to use magic and to use Runestones (which are pretty powerful, yo).

Shiku
Shiku is a jester that Kaori meets. He thinks she's annoying, but she has really good knowledge of enemies and where stuff is. She uses Juggling Balls as her weapon(s?) of choice.

Miro
Miro is a Paladin. He is sent to get the Pretzel (XD) from the Pretzel Man (who seems to be the main enemy in the game) and meets up with the party. He distrusts anything Unholy, and therefore he and Kaori bicker the whole time. WOO!

Jikedo
Jikedo is a ninja. SOOOO original. But there's a twist. He made a pact with a demon long ago. (not anyone Kaori knows, or anything spiff like that) If angered, he can summon the demon. Jikedo is blind in one eye.

Kutabare
YES her name means EXACTLY what you think it does. She's a rather rude goth chick that the party meets on Earth. She sticks with them because of sick fascination for Kaori. O.o She uses various guns as her weapons.

Ok, I think that's all I'm gonna say about it for now, as this post is utterly long and most people prolly aren't reading it.

Please give me your opinions on what you've heard so far, and tell me if you're interested in learning more, or in playing the game once it's done (which is roughly 2005 or 2006 at this point! XD)

Arigatou, minna!

~~Tsuki Guujin~~

The^Mad_Saiyan
02-05-2003, 01:09 PM
sounds like a cool game, i want to know more... but
Tsukiiiiiii!!!!!!!! 2005 or 2006 AAAAWWWWhhh NOOOO Stop the maddness. I guess all good things take time. *-^

But Please teel me its coming to "XBOX"

Babbit_Chan
02-05-2003, 01:35 PM
Ooooo sounds good (hilarious title - really XD) - I'll look out for it Tsuki =D

Anime_kidd2k2
02-05-2003, 01:48 PM
wow sounds really cool. i hope its for ps2, cause all the good cames are getting stolen by Xbox! stupid bill gates!

Rosiel
02-05-2003, 01:50 PM
I'm curious as to what engine you're going to use for this... a FF sized RPG (let's say circa IV-V since the ones nowadays are multi-million dollar endeavours) is still a lot of work to program, even when using simple tile-based worlds with sprite layering... the monster AIs and other basic non-graphical functions take quite a bit of work.

It'll be a DirectX game probably? Seems like the cheapest way to program a little game on the side for fun since it's PC-based and does not require investing in a platform devkit... those things are so expensive. X__X Unless you plan to code for emus, but that tends to be a pain too.

*thinks*

It's not RPGmaker-based, is it? X__X

Anime_kidd2k2
02-05-2003, 01:54 PM
will a demo come out before the game? cause that would be cool to have only the cosplay.com ppl try it out. but we wont tell no1! hehe well tell us more info when uh u find it out!

Babbit_Chan
02-06-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Anime_kidd2k2
will a demo come out before the game? cause that would be cool to have only the cosplay.com ppl try it out. but we wont tell no1! hehe well tell us more info when uh u find it out!

A demo would be nice. (It'd probably help if I actually went to their site for info X_X)

TsukiGuujin
02-06-2003, 12:26 AM
XD!

I can't believe the replies. Thanks, guys.

NO XBOX! EEEEW!

I am emphatically anti-XBOX. So GOD no. *bows* Gomen.

And no RPG-maker, either! Just as eeew.

What are we using for it? Um....I'm not compeltely sure on that yet...I need more programmers. 2005 is Tsuki being optimistic.

I'm using Maya and Strata at the moment, for 3D stuff. (no you can't see it...I'm busy learning and busy trashing many things that I make. X_x)

Demo? Most likely. One day.

I'm going to college to learn how to actually MAKE this thing. So let's hope Tsuki gets smarter, or I'll have to cut out some of the good parts.

Then there's the question of censors...there's this one scene. X_X Um, nevermind. I didn't say anything about that. ^^;;;;;;

~~Tsuki Guujin~~

Babylon
02-06-2003, 08:07 AM
Well, here's the bad news...

Good luck finding programmers. There are tons of wannabe game developers out there, all with a million dream projects of their own. Developing a game (especially with developing the engine too) takes a lot of hard work. You're not going to find that many people who want to devote what will probably amount to thousands of man hours to creating your dream. I know. I have firsthand experience.

I used to work on the WorldForge project. Hobbyist open source development of multiplayer online RPG's. When people take time out of their life to help with a project, they all believe that what they say goes. There was so much arguing going on between all the developers that nothing was working and I finally quit. Granted, we did get a basic game going out of the thing at the time, but we didn't even develop our own engine. We used an open source 3D engine (the main goal of the project was to promote open source game development in multiplayer RPG's).

Of course you can take everything I say with a grain of salt, as I tend to be a pessamist. However, I've seen hundreds (literally) of hobbyist game development projects spring up. Do you know how many of them I've seen done through to completion? Very few. How many of them have I seen gain a publisher and actually go on to be distributed? None. That's not saying it can't happen, just that I've seen many try and all of them have failed.

The sad fact is that it isn't 1980 any more. A one or two man team with no funding can't produce a competitive game these days. I've grown up with the gaming industry and I've seen it turn from a small niche market of hobbyists and geeks to a billion dollar industry where costs now equal that of blockbuster movie production.

The day of the indie game will come, much as it has with movies. It won't be any time soon though. Reality sucks.

-Babylon :schitzo:

Rosiel
02-06-2003, 08:53 AM
> Well, here's the bad news...

You went were I tried not to for fear of sounding like the Evil Voice of Reality... but I agree with you, I've been there before. So have 99.9% of all engineers/programmers I know.

Since the floodgates of realism have been opened I will share my experiences/knowledge also...

Making a video game is /hard work/, hard work for a team of people. (And no you won't learn how to in University, you'll have to buy books and learn on your own.) And from what I see, Tsuki, you haven't even looked at the basics...

The engine comes first. Story and fiddling with maya renders is a layer of sugar-coating you put on top. If you don't have a good solid engine the game will be unplayable. And even then, you have to prepare yourself to the idea that unless you get a big team of committed programmers, you'll only achieve FF1 or so level of complexity.

If you're really serious about this, and want to give it a try anyway you need to recruit programmers. In order to do that I'd recommend starting 1) working on a preliminary engine you can show around and 2) finding a good artist to make concept sketches. Having some coding done will make you look motivated, and having visually poignant images to tell your story will make it look more professional. Right now what you're showing doesn't look serious to me as you don't even know what kind of engine you'll work on, what language your programmers will need to know, and, sorry to say, the art is decidedly amateurish and won't sell your idea. You need to really plan this project and recruit the right people for the different jobs if you want to give this dream of yours a real good try.

And to recruit, you need to have something to show. I'd start working on that first if I were you. ^__^

> I know. I have firsthand experience.

Don't we all. X__X

Babylon
02-06-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Rosiel
> You went were I tried not to for fear of sounding like the Evil Voice of Reality... but I agree with you,

Yeah, I kind of noticed that tone in your post so I went ahead with it (because much of the time I just can't shut my big mouth). :)

I just hate to see young/new programmers/designers/modelers/etc. jumping into something, having it not work out, and then regretting that they wasted their time. I've wasted enough of my youth on dreams of the gaming industry that, to be honest with myself, are damned for all eternity. Of course, back when I started there still were those two man teams building competitive games at home. Missed opportunities and all... Anyway, if you honestly want to develop games the only way to go is to get hired by a professional game development company.

So as not to be completely negative, three important tips on getting into developing video games:
1. If you're older than mid 20's it's probably too late for you. If you don't have any industry experience by this time, you're considered worthless.
2. Get to know people in the industry. People who are already in the industry have hundreds of friends also trying to get in. Guess who they're gonna give the jobs to? Troll gaming message boards, participate in developer chats, meet up with them at conventions, etc.
3. Intern with a gaming company. Try to do this as early as possible. They'll offer you little to no money. They'll work you 15 hour days and weekends. But it's your foot in the door. Once you're in, you're in.

Hobbyist experience counts for nothing. Remember that. I've worked on more indie titles than most professionals have worked on professional titles. Yet when I apply for a job I get the same thing: "You have no industry experience."

It is probably the most competitive industry that exists today and unfortunately there is little profit to be made unless you work for one of the large corporations that distributes millions of copies of games. If you're thinking of getting into coding/modeling/art for the sole purpose of developing games, be very very careful. A large percentage of the time you'll end up like me. Whoring yourself off to some corporation developing the most boring business applications just so you can support your family. The 15 year old inside laughs at me and calls me a sellout. But ya have to make a living...

Just trying to throw some tips your way. If you have any questions I'm sure myself or Rosiel could answer them.

-Babylon :schitzo:

Rosiel
02-06-2003, 01:20 PM
> If you have any questions I'm sure myself or Rosiel could answer them.

Yup, do feel free to ask. I have friends in the gaming industry (both on the programming and art side of it) so I can try to help.

> It is probably the most competitive industry that exists today and unfortunately there is little profit to be made

I was actually scouted by Ubisoft when I was about to graduate, back in 1999/2000, during the tech boom. Their entry-level pay for game programmers? $18,000 a year.

One thing you also need to know if you want to go in programming is that a lot of people won't get to really "see" the game/software aspect of their work. You program modules. Well, if you get input X you output Y. What is X for? You don't know. What is Y for? Beats me. You could spend days just trying to output that Y a little faster.

> The 15 year old inside laughs at me and calls me a sellout.

That's what we all do. I specialized in AI and Software Engineering Processes, and I do e-commerce and web programming. ^__^

Working in the tech industry isn't as glamourous as a lot of people think.

> Anyway, if you honestly want to develop games the only way to go is to get hired by a professional game development company.

If she wants to try and live her dream, she should. Your learn as much from failure as you do from success, so either way it will bring her something. If you get hired, you develop other people's games, other people's visions. Even artistic leads on games are extremely limited (I hear friends rant about that often enough).

TsukiGuujin
02-07-2003, 12:30 AM
DAMN you guys have a lot to say!

I'm actually looking at getting an internship in a (rather small!) game company here in Colorado...I don't know the name yet...my teacher is helping me.

As for sugar coating, Tsuki loves sugar. XD

I do know I need to look at shit like engines and all...I have one programming friend who IS helping, and another who is just now learning the programming and has already said he wants to help. So I'm looking at everything, I really am.

As I said, Tsuki is optimistic with her 2005 or 2006. I know this is a tough market...my friend Kunio in Japan works for the company who makes the Grandia games...what the hell is the name of that company? Anyway.

So yes, I am aware of the reality aspect of this. I AM. Honest.

I posted the thread not to be given a damn reality check (I'm perfectly capable of finding one of those in real life, thanks, guys) but to see if anyone is *INTERESTED* in playing the game. Not to be a bitch, Rosiel and Babylon, but I got no such opinon from either of you. I feel a bit belittled here. X_X

ANYWAY. To reply, somewhat....

Babylon said:
>>So as not to be completely negative, three important tips on getting into developing video games:
1. If you're older than mid 20's it's probably too late for you. If you don't have any industry experience by this time, you're considered worthless.

I'm 18. So not too late, huh? I am JUST starting college! I'm not that old. X_X

>>2. Get to know people in the industry. People who are already in the industry have hundreds of friends also trying to get in. Guess who they're gonna give the jobs to? Troll gaming message boards, participate in developer chats, meet up with them at conventions, etc.

Again, I have Kunio at the moment...I do need to meet other people, I am aware. But again, I am *ONLY* 18. Not that old. Not old enough to know hordes of people, you know what I mean?

>>3. Intern with a gaming company. Try to do this as early as possible. They'll offer you little to no money. They'll work you 15 hour days and weekends. But it's your foot in the door. Once you're in, you're in.

Again. I'm working on that. Fortunately, my teacher has connections I've never dreamed of. O.O
Rosiel said:>>If she wants to try and live her dream, she should. Your learn as much from failure as you do from success, so either way it will bring her something. If you get hired, you develop other people's games, other people's visions. Even artistic leads on games are extremely limited (I hear friends rant about that often enough).

Thanks for saying I should. I'm not discouraged by either of you in the least, I'm happy to announce. I believe in my dreams, and I'm happy pursuing them. If they don't work out, they don't. But I'm not geared toward failure right now. I'm just NOT.

I intend to make the game. I do. Even if it's crap and it sells one copy, I'll be happy. Little indie crap games may not be big. But I'm not in it for the money. I'm in it because I want to do this. Not to get paid. It's not about being paid for me.

I think I'm done talking now.

ANYWAY, I'm still interested in hearing OPINIONS on the STORYLINE/CHARACTERS of the game.

Thanks guys. ^^

~~Tsuki Guujin~~

**EDIT**

As for my art being amateurish, I know plenty of people who really like it. And if you want to say things like that, you go for it. I've got some rather good shit out there, and I don't give a good god damn what one person thinks, when a lot of people really like it. -.- Also, there are plenty of games that some people don't like the art on. There are a few that I can't stand, and that *I* think looks bad. Not that my opinion MATTERS on MY game, but whatever.
If everyone thought like you, there would be no video games to play, would there?

Rosieal
02-07-2003, 02:15 AM
That's an interesting storyline and characters you have, Tsuki. Make all the characters bioshounens, okay? *drools*

Babylon
02-07-2003, 08:26 AM
Babylon and Rosiel - The Ultra Gaming Bitchez! ;) When you get into your post-college years, all you know how to do anymore is throw around reality checks. It's what your poor pathetic life turns into at this point. heh. We do it because we loathe the young and their hopeful attitudes. In other words: Take pity, I'm turning into a bitter old person. :)

On the age topic: You're saying the exact same thing that I did at 18: "I'm only 18 and look at me. I've already been coding for 12 years, I've already been in college for a year, my games practically code themselves at this point, I've completed like 5 hobbyist titles, nothing can stop me!". Look where that got me... My main problems were not going after an internship at a gaming company (because there were none in the area I was going to school) and not having any contacts in the industry. Just trying to let you in on the mistakes I made so you can choose to repeat them or not. Plus I have this whole self-hate thing where I like to go over my life's mistakes over and over in my head.

As for your art: I dunno. I'm not an artist and I have no taste in art, so I would be the last person on Earth to tell you if it's any good or not. Being able to draw a straight line with a ruler is one up on my drawing ability.

As for the story: Again, who's to say? It depends what your goal is for the game? If your goal is popularity of the game and getting a lot of people to play it or to be able to use it in your portfolio then I'd tell you you're off. By the title the game sounds like a comedy. By the description it doesn't. People generally don't react well to overly comedic games (although I love them). If they think it's going to be some silly game, most people won't want to play it. And if it turns out to not be a silly game, the people who play it because of the silly title will be disappointed. The characters and storyline are pretty cliche, but then again what RPG isn't? I do dig the porcelain doll character. Definately keep that. I'd suggest that if you're making this a comedy go with the cliches, but play them up and make fun of it. I think that would work out well.

If your goal is just to make a game you and a select few others like then our opinions don't matter. If you still want my opinion I'd have to say that I probably wouldn't play it at this point. (Why the hell do I feel like that angry dude on American Idol)

I'll try to quit picking on ya now... :cheers:

-Babylon :schitzo:

Erilan
02-07-2003, 09:29 AM
Heh, I also have a grand dream of making a video game, but my plan is quite different. My college has a Japanese co-op program where you go to Japan to work for a year after you graduate. Hopefully I'll be able to land a job with a game company and therefore get my game created. If not, I'll prolly end up staying in Japan and look for a company to make to my game. And if that also doesn't work, then hopefully Rosiel can connect me to some her friends in the industry. :p

Having my games created is my ultimate goal in life. I have devoted 8 years of my life creating my game in my mind, and I have only recently started writing/typing it out on paper. The journey is going to be tough, but this is something I absolutely have to do.

I'll have a website about my series up within a month or two. :bigtu:

KaineMaxwell
02-07-2003, 09:32 AM
I'd love to make video games, dunno if smart enough for it now with so much involved in them now anymore..

psythe
02-07-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Erilan
Heh, I also have a grand dream of making a video game, but my plan is quite different. My college has a Japanese co-op program where you go to Japan to work for a year after you graduate. Hopefully I'll be able to land a job with a game company and therefore get my game created. If not, I'll prolly end up staying in Japan and look for a company to make to my game. And if that also doesn't work, then hopefully Rosiel can connect me to some her friends in the industry. :p

Having my games created is my ultimate goal in life. I have devoted 8 years of my life creating my game in my mind, and I have only recently started writing/typing it out on paper. The journey is going to be tough, but this is something I absolutely have to do.

I'll have a website about my series up within a month or two. :bigtu:

It's extremely hard, I spent two years attempting to secure funding for my company to get a game series off the ground. If you want to get a company to even look at you, you will need to have a playable demo of some sort and a well laid out business plan to present. If you go in with just an idea, you won't get past the front door. You are doing the right thing by getting some work experience in the field before going all out trying to get someone to listen to you. I won't bore with lengthy info, just PM me if you would like to know anything specific. :)

The^Mad_Saiyan
02-07-2003, 02:36 PM
Hey! I want to make a game too. It's my long-wanted Dream... But before we get into that. WAIT WAIT, BACK THE F***-OFF. Before anyone beats me to it. let me do the honors

@@- Mad_Saiyan what the F*** are you thinking about, you cant make a game. You dont even know where you are.

^&^ but, but...

@@- But, BUT! you can't even talk you little S***. you better get that idea...

^&^ !!Dont tell me what to do you. Im a Mad_man-on-the-run. so dont F*** with me.

@@- ok, ok, Im just trying to help, so please forg....

^&^ AAAHHHHH!!!! F***-it. I dont want to do this any more. where is my sandwich?



aahhh aha hahaah ha ha ja ja jjaa jaaa jjjaaahhhh!!!!!, oh S***
NOT REALLY. *evil smile*


But really, enough of this useless crap. TSUKI I think your game rocks so far and will look sweet. Most interested. you know, BABYLON & ROSIEL may have a good point so grab as much as you can. But Im on your side, F*** the BULL-S***. Determined your self, and this game will ROCK, it will be the Bomb. how do you think the SQUARE pleaple got started. When your game comes out I will send E-mails to the company responsible for the seccess of the game, and I will ask you "Do you remember me? the^mad_saiyan".

GO TSUKI! GO TSUKI! GOO.. GO TSUKI GO TSUKI GGOOO
ITS YOUR BIRTHDAY, ITS YOUR BIRTHDAY, LIKE YOUR CRAZY, LAKE YOUR CRAZY.... SHAKE IT LIKE ITS HOT.


thank you, thank you, I'll be here till fryday

*edit*
:devil:

TsukiGuujin
02-07-2003, 06:32 PM
Bablyon:

I'm trying to understand the reality check thing. *glad she's not old and bitter yet*

KIDDING! So kidding.

And it's ok if you're not interested in playing it. ^^

I'm glad some people are.

Ghost:
Most of the characters ARE bishounens. YAY!

You know me. Intense need for beautiful males, ne?

~~Tsuki~~

TsukiGuujin
02-07-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Erilan
Heh, I also have a grand dream of making a video game, but my plan is quite different. My college has a Japanese co-op program where you go to Japan to work for a year after you graduate. Hopefully I'll be able to land a job with a game company and therefore get my game created. If not, I'll prolly end up staying in Japan and look for a company to make to my game. And if that also doesn't work, then hopefully Rosiel can connect me to some her friends in the industry. :p

Having my games created is my ultimate goal in life. I have devoted 8 years of my life creating my game in my mind, and I have only recently started writing/typing it out on paper. The journey is going to be tough, but this is something I absolutely have to do.

I'll have a website about my series up within a month or two. :bigtu:

I'm trying to work more on the Pretzel Crisis site. X_x Tsuki has little time for websites, right at the moment.

I totally understand it being your dream, you know? Mine is to make my game....but not to make money, really. Sure, money is good.

But I want to make something that I know people like, you know what I mean? My art is for me...but I want to share.

Tsuki = hopless dreamer

Good luck, Erlian!

~~Tsuki Guujin~~

TsukiGuujin
02-07-2003, 06:39 PM
>> But really, enough of this useless crap. TSUKI I think your game rocks so far and will look sweet. Most interested. you know, BABYLON & ROSIEL may have a good point so grab as much as you can. But Im on your side, F*** the BULL-S***. Determined your self, and this game will ROCK, it will be the Bomb. how do you think the SQUARE pleaple got started. When your game comes out I will send E-mails to the company responsible for the seccess of the game, and I will ask you "Do you remember me? the^mad_saiyan".

If you're interested in learning more about it (there's certainly a lot to know! @_@) then PM me, and I'll talk to you more. I'm so glad to have someone that is as psyched about playing it as you are. ARIGATOU GOZAIMASU!!!! *dancin*

~~Tsuki~~