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View Full Version : Do you prefer to win awards for your preformance or your workmanship?


Kaijugal
06-24-2003, 11:43 AM
:bouncer:

Just curious, which do you get more pleasure from?

Nachoman
06-24-2003, 02:18 PM
I definitely think Workmanship. After all, burning 200+ man-hours (which factors at an hour a day for like eight months) in getting every single detail of the costume perfect, has to have a true reward. Compared to that, the stage performance is less than secondary.

Sarcasm-hime
06-24-2003, 05:24 PM
Workmanship, no question. For me it's all about the details and construction. Dressing up is tons of fun, but I usually choose my costumes based on interesting designs, and have to come up with a skit/performance idea (often lame) at the last minute.

Koumori
06-24-2003, 05:27 PM
Workmanship. Even if I had the brain part that permits people to come up with stage presentations (apparently stolen by aliens).. it's about the months I put into making my costume, not the seconds I spend on stage.

Scortia
06-25-2003, 09:02 AM
For me it is the performance... I prefer the acting to the sewing... sure I like getting my costumes accurate but I tend to avoid very complicated costumes like Shiva of FF to have a few simpler amusing-to-act-in costumes. Plus, creating the skits gives me much amusement. <3 directing and screenplay writing.

PockyDarcy
06-25-2003, 11:32 AM
yah know, I would rather have an award for performance, because that is what scott and I do, but an award is craftmanship is a lot more hard to get because of the competition is pretty stiff. so, it gives more of an accomplished feeling. I think Best in show is the best to have, if u are overall good at both. That is what I want to shoot for...best in show yah. ^_~

LuckInSpades
07-07-2003, 03:50 AM
Workmanship. Especially if one of my group members ends up getting stagefright during our skit *sigh*

Kimiko
07-08-2003, 09:17 PM
I'd have to say, half and half. I love the workmanship part... but I live for performance. ::nod nod:: It's a toss up for me!

Chosuke
07-08-2003, 09:23 PM
Workmanship. Hands down.

*Shiva*
07-12-2003, 04:43 PM
Performance, always. No matter how perfectly made a costume is, the point of getting up onstage isn't to look pretty. It is to entertain. If the point was to be judged on design and craftmanship, why don't they just line everyone up and inspect them like a regular costume contest? In my opinion, as both an actor and a dancer, anyone signing up for the masquarade should be prepared to put on a good show. I'd much rather see a great creative performance onstage than jaw-dropping costumes which I can admire better up close in the halls. I always remember the awesome performances moreso than the outfits. Of course, having both never hurts either. ;)

Gren
07-12-2003, 05:06 PM
Performance. Workmanship awards are tilted twards making the biggest prettiest fanciest costume possible. If you're trying for a wormanship award, you're not going to wear a simple costume. You're looking for what looks pretty. For performance, it's more of entertaining and being in character. You wear what costume makes you happy. Not what makes you look grandest.

archangeli
07-12-2003, 06:21 PM
Granted I've never been onstage at a con yet, but I think that both have their value.

It is good to acknowledge the performers who entertain us, but it is just as important to acknowledge the effort and time they put into creating their costume. (or sometime lack of -which can be just as amusing! *thinks of the Gundam v0.1 - hehe*

Psychotic Jei
07-14-2003, 10:32 PM
I prefer porformance. It's not that I cant make the hader costumes. Ninety percent of the time the characters dont interest me. And I dont see like a perfectly done Irvine or such competeing with things from Paradise Kiss or Angel Sanctuary.
Besides...skits can cause mental damange. =D

Eccoglyph
07-18-2003, 01:40 PM
Performance. My group goes out there to entertain. We actually come up with a skit idea first and then try to pick an anime that fits. But much as I love to perform, I hold serious costumers in the highest regard. With many costumes, the longer you stare, the more problems you see. With others... the longer you look, the more you think, "now that's dedication."

hoshikage
07-18-2003, 01:57 PM
Workmanship, every time. Even when I do come up with a skit idea I like (which I've been putting more effort into recently), it doesn't take anywhere near the time, effort, and dedication that making my costumes does. Nor does it offer me the same kind of enjoyment, frankly. *shrug* But then, each to his/her own, right? ;)

Originally posted by Gren
You wear what costume makes you happy. Not what makes you look grandest.

Ah, but what if wearing the costume that makes you "look grandest" *is* the costume that makes you happy? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that it's different for different people, and for me, making and then wearing a stunning costume (or at least, as stunning as I can get it) is what I really get the most pleasure from. :)

Hibiki-chan
07-18-2003, 01:59 PM
Workmanship for sure. I personally believe that just about anyone can act in some shape way or form, but creating a costume that complements that act is the hard (yet fun) part!

lainey
07-20-2003, 11:37 PM
Performance!

Like stated before..if you have a good costume and a horrible performance...it won't be remembered as much as a better performance :D

And yeah...I'm not an experienced or expert cosplayer...so I'll make it up with the performance itself!

Kortnie Li
07-21-2003, 09:03 PM
Workmanship all the way! You spent almost every waking hour of a few months on your costume, you should definately be rewarded for the workmanship of it.

Nachoman
07-21-2003, 10:54 PM
I do not say that stage performance is completely irrelevant, but IMHO the true performance is to wear your costume all con long, have props that aren't to be carried like they were made out of porcelain (and know how to use them), and to be in character every second you are wearing your costume.

Maki Yu.Ki.Ame
07-24-2003, 01:56 AM
great question. i never really thought about it. I agree with archangeli that both have their sides. But if there is only one kind of award, I think I will go for workmanship. Cosplay is all about wearing/making a costume isn't it? ^^ Plus spending like 100+ hours on a costume + $$$$$ it feels good to get a workmanship award (feels that ur hardwork on the costume is being reconized)

**though I must also add that I love doing skits too~

Maki

Miaka No Baka
07-24-2003, 03:54 AM
It depends on the costume. If my costume is extrordinary in detail and craftsmanship I'd feel better if it got recognized for the craftsmanship I put into the costume. But if the costume is pretty plain and simple the skit would probably be what I'd rather win for esp cause skits are fun and it's good to try and come up with random ideas esp ones that no one has even tried to do before =D

miaka no Baka

RedPikachu
07-25-2003, 01:24 AM
workmanship since all of the costumes i have done so far have pretty much been original designs, not to mention being awarded for all the hours you put into a peice is very rewarding

Kaijugal
07-25-2003, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Maki Yu.Ki.Ame
great question. i never really thought about it. I agree with archangeli that both have their sides. But if there is only one kind of award, I think I will go for workmanship. Cosplay is all about wearing/making a costume isn't it? ^^ Plus spending like 100+ hours on a costume + $$$$$ it feels good to get a workmanship award (feels that ur hardwork on the costume is being reconized)

**though I must also add that I love doing skits too~

Maki

Your workmanship is really great, as for your preformance you are the cutest Tokyo Mew Mew EVER!!

:bigtu: ~Dawn

Maki Yu.Ki.Ame
07-25-2003, 12:41 PM
heehe~
thanks a lot~~ ^^

Maki

Beware_UY7
07-27-2003, 11:04 AM
I definitly like the worksmanship portion more, because I'm always acting, singing, and dancing, but rarely in any theatre group that I perform with do I get to make my own costume. (I got to make 3 1860's gowns for when I was in 'The King and I'... it was awesome)
That, and I'm not that great at writing skits, so my best buddy, who's a uber-great writer, writes skits, and I just randomly suggest things. I'd probably enjoy the performance more if I knew that I wrote something, but, hey, it's still fun.

Mihoshi
07-27-2003, 07:58 PM
it depends, if I can make the costume, craftmanship definately, but if I'm short on time and commission then I guess I have to rely on the skit (or get hunted down and shot by the commissioner):schitzo:

Isaldur
08-02-2003, 09:03 PM
No... for me.. definately performance.

I can't sew worth a *(@#$ and don't have the tools to make most props.. but what i do have is vision.. I do design my costumes down to the last detail and work with my mom who helps with that.. but I could never get an award for something I didn't do.

Cosplay is not about workmanship and accuracy. If it was then people over 5'2 woudln't win awards because most anime characters are small... this goes on and on and on.

Besides that I'm a very good performer :)

Kaijugal
08-02-2003, 10:22 PM
:D This has been a really fun thread to follow. Everyone has put foward thier points of view in a very interesting and well presented way. It's interesting to see what influences the way people feel about the emphasis on certain areas with awards.

:)

dressdragn
08-04-2003, 04:15 PM
as much as I love making costumes, preformance, I feel like in a stage competion this is what matters most. I fell like Hall cosplay is where I'd go to if I wanted to be jugded costume only.

~Anna

djmihoshi
08-07-2003, 10:33 PM
for me it's all about the workmanship, baby. Any old schmo can get up there and entertain a crowd. But it takes lotsa work to make your costume as accurate as you can get it! Besides, preforming usually only lasts about 5 minutes....working on it can take months....

....Ironically enough I can't sew all that good and I have a real knack for coming up with some insanely hilarious skits. ::shrugs:: ah well.

katrinastrife
08-10-2003, 03:25 PM
Irk.. I'm half and half on this, but I voted for skit because I've won two awards for skits I've been in/coordinatied (Best Group & Funniest Skit). I really enjoy going on stage and putting on a good show... But, I agree that it's more gratifying to win an award for a costume you've put 50 hours, or more, into making. *sigh* If I had it my way (AKA: I was a drama and fashion design major) I'd like to be able to do both~! ^_^;;

Ami Yuy
08-11-2003, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by Miaka No Baka
It depends on the costume. If my costume is extrordinary in detail and craftsmanship I'd feel better if it got recognized for the craftsmanship I put into the costume. But if the costume is pretty plain and simple the skit would probably be what I'd rather win for esp cause skits are fun and it's good to try and come up with random ideas esp ones that no one has even tried to do before =D

Ditto. ^_^ I've only tried once and that was when they pulled us up to be walk-ons.

Fluffylover
08-11-2003, 05:10 PM
I think both. ^-^;;; Particulary I know how much work goes into a costume. *shows bleeding fingers* But I also know how much work it takes to get up on stage and perform something to entertain some 700 people. Its rather frightening.

Eriol
08-11-2003, 05:54 PM
Performance.

If the issue is workmanship, there should be no requirement to perform a skit. It would be somewhat like a fashion show.

Yet, according to standard Masquerade rules, you have to perform something.

The two categories should be distinct.

Ninja Sensei
08-16-2003, 11:20 PM
Yet, according to standard Masquerade rules, you have to perform something.

The two categories should be distinct.


???

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "standard Masquerade rules" but they must be local. I'd check with the director of your local masquerade to make sure.

According to Costume Con/World Con rules, you do not have to perform a skit. Some of the best, most elegant and well done costumes win with a "stop and pose" or "turn and spin" on stage.

... and the two categories (workmanship & presentation) are treated as two categories (for instance, each has a Best in Show winner ... usually ;) )

Eriol
08-18-2003, 01:02 PM
???

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "standard Masquerade rules" but they must be local. I'd check with the director of your local masquerade to make sure.


Sorry, by standard I meant "most anime Masquerade rules." Incidentally, most anime Masquerade rules do not follow Costume Con/World Con rules, which I believe is fair.

Anime Masquerade rules do not separate workmanship & presentation. I feel they should be separated. Some people have great costumes but no skit, so they should be allowed a chance to compete for workmanship. Others have great skits and should be rewarded as such, even if the costuming isn't as good.

Kaijugal
08-18-2003, 04:03 PM
Sorry, by standard I meant "most anime Masquerade rules." Incidentally, most anime Masquerade rules do not follow Costume Con/World Con rules, which I believe is fair.

Anime Masquerade rules do not separate workmanship & presentation. I feel they should be separated. Some people have great costumes but no skit, so they should be allowed a chance to compete for workmanship. Others have great skits and should be rewarded as such, even if the costuming isn't as good.

Personally I :heart: LOVE :heart: the World Con standard type contests. They give both Artist and Preformers a chance to be rewarded for thier hard work.

Jubei-chan
08-19-2003, 06:17 AM
I take pride in both aspects. Though I know that the costumes that I have aren't quality enough pieces to win for construction, unless they are a pair of punishers, so I focus more on the preformance. its all about playing to your strengths! Make the best of it all!!!

Ninja Sensei
08-19-2003, 09:24 AM
Sorry, by standard I meant "most anime Masquerade rules." Incidentally, most anime Masquerade rules do not follow Costume Con/World Con rules, which I believe is fair.

Anime Masquerade rules do not separate workmanship & presentation. I feel they should be separated. Some people have great costumes but no skit, so they should be allowed a chance to compete for workmanship. Others have great skits and should be rewarded as such, even if the costuming isn't as good.

I too have found this to unfortunately be the case...

I agree with you and Kaijugal that both aspects should be recognised.

The difficult question is ... How would we go about changing the system? Or does the system need to be changed at all?

Eriol
08-19-2003, 10:49 AM
I too have found this to unfortunately be the case...

I agree with you and Kaijugal that both aspects should be recognised.

The difficult question is ... How would we go about changing the system? Or does the system need to be changed at all?

I think the system does need changing. I don't know about other people, but I find most skits rather unentertaining. Acting and scriptwriting is as hard an art to master as sewing. I strongly believe that some people get on the stage to show off their costumes, but have little ability to act or devise an entertaining skit. Therefore, those people should get a workmanship competition.

I really don't know why anime cons don't do this if science fiction cons seem to be able to do this (or maybe they only do one of the two categories).

The system will not change unless the head of the Cosplay/Masquerade competition decides to do this and is backed by the rest of the con leadership. Also, not that many people really understand or care about the fine distinction between workmanship and performance. They just want their stage time. So, the attendees aren't registering complaints.

Basically, everybody is content with the status quo. This is much like the state of politics too.

Hikaruchan
08-19-2003, 11:40 AM
I chose workmanship, as it can take months or years to make a great costume. Some skits preps can take months, too, but the majority of them come together in weeks, days, hours or sometimes even minutes. Workmanship usually takes more effort to win, but may not be as entertaining to an audience.
I don't compete all that often, but usually when I do it is for a competition that takes craftmanship into account.

JoeBoeing
08-19-2003, 03:11 PM
I haven't read the entire thread but I'd have to say that I just like to preform. I'm still really green when it comes to sewing but honestly I've never competed at at an anime con and Ani-Magic 2003 will be my 1st foray into anime masquerades. I don't care if I win an award as long as the crowd finds the skit entertaining.

I don't have the skills for a "Best replica" award or whatever. I just like being on stage.

At some point when my sewing skills compare to Nessa's, Tristin Citrine's, Yaya Han's or Adella's I might consider going up for a construction award but I doubt it.

I cos-play for myself and to have a good time and when I'm on stage it's for the audience. Nothing else matters to me.

From,
Joe

musica heart
08-19-2003, 04:40 PM
workmanship, by all means. Awarded or not, you yourself can take a look in the mirror and say " yes i did this". Thats a good feeling

Tenya Muyo
08-21-2003, 02:30 AM
I guess i'm like a Muggle-born, *Seamus voice* "I'm half-and-half!" :rolleyes: I like it when people just come up to me and say "You did really well on your costume," but I also love getting up in front of a crowd and getting tons of reactions from them! I love them both! A well balanced diet to feed my ego! :bigtu: *lol* Just Kiddin'! :p

Eriol
08-26-2003, 11:06 AM
???

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "standard Masquerade rules" but they must be local. I'd check with the director of your local masquerade to make sure.

According to Costume Con/World Con rules, you do not have to perform a skit. Some of the best, most elegant and well done costumes win with a "stop and pose" or "turn and spin" on stage.

... and the two categories (workmanship & presentation) are treated as two categories (for instance, each has a Best in Show winner ... usually ;) )

At Shoujocon 2003, the performance category of the scoring sheet counted for about half the maximum eligible score. This is great!

Psychotic Jei
08-26-2003, 03:26 PM
Sorry, by standard I meant "most anime Masquerade rules." Incidentally, most anime Masquerade rules do not follow Costume Con/World Con rules, which I believe is fair.

Anime Masquerade rules do not separate workmanship & presentation. I feel they should be separated. Some people have great costumes but no skit, so they should be allowed a chance to compete for workmanship. Others have great skits and should be rewarded as such, even if the costuming isn't as good.


I'm not sure if it's different where you are. But, the last three California cons I've been to, had the workmanship seperate from the performance. They had seperate craftmanship judging plus the walk on. I'm not sure you could win best presentation for a walk on, but I know that in 01 at AX a group won Best of Show for a walk on.

But, on the same note, I've known people to enter both craftmanship and presentation. :: shrug ::

Lucifer
08-26-2003, 11:56 PM
Workmanship, definitely. Its more gratifying to win at making something, then to win at some skit. Granted I don't win anymore then hall awards, but the idea remains.

Karisu-sama
08-27-2003, 08:01 AM
I voted for workmanship. To me, it's a validation of one's skills, but most of all, the time and effort spent on creating a costume(s) (in my case, "costumes" is definitely a plural, since I make all the costumes for my whole family.)

As far as workmanship goes, being on stage is almost superfluous, because it seems that a lot of the audience (at an Anime con, at least, as opposed to perhaps a CostumeCon or a Worldcon) often cares most about the presentation. And I really DO love to go onstage and do a presentation that the audience appreciates, and I don't generally give a damn about awards for that - I just want the audience to have enjoyed it. The feedback from the audience is totally my reward for that. ^^

Funny thing is, almost all the awards I've won have been for workmanship. Workmanship to me is a VERY personal thing, one that I suspect many audiences don't appreciate, since it is often not obvious from the distance of a stage. So, it means a lot more to me when the judges give me that kind of an award. (NOTE: I saw the award-winning "Witch Hunter Robin" costume from AX'03 up close - not very flamboyant from an audience point of view (and her presentation was a walk-on), but the workmanship was INCREDIBLE. ^^)

I also do SF cons, which generally follow ICG (International Costumers' Guild) guidelines (not "rules") on dual-track presentation and workmanship award systems for multiple experience levels (ie: juvenile, novice, journeyman, master), and I highly respect their long-time-tested judging recommendations.

Sarcasm-hime
09-04-2003, 03:02 AM
Karisu, you weren't at Worldcon this past weekend, were you? (I don't remember seeing you...) Do you go to Worldcons? ^_^

Re: Eriol's comments: All the decent Sci-fi cons I've been to run it like Worldcon, in that workmanship is judged separately before you go onstage, and then the presentation is judged on a whole-unit basis: how your costume looks on stage (which takes into account construction, to some degree) as well as how you carry yourself and how entertaining you are. Under this system, it is emphasized that you don't have to do a skit--a really impressive costume can make a big impact just with a walk-on, maybe with some cool background music and/or an entertaining voice-over by the MC. <winks at NinjaSensei>

I try to spread the word that if you don't have a really great idea for a skit, you don't have to do one. At Worldcon this past weekend, my husband and I had a very simple stage routine. We came onstage, posed a bit with a voice-over, and then did a very short (like 10 seconds) dance. That's it...and we won a presentation award. So simple is often the best. I don't think it's necessary to have completely separate workmanship/presentation events, as long as both are judged and awarded and people realize that good work speaks for itself.

HEDGESMFG
09-08-2003, 04:58 PM
I guess you could say I live for presentation, but I highly appriciate the aspect of costume workmaship and wish I had the time, and skill to do the same. If I didn't appriciate both, I wouldn't spend hours gawking at various hall cosplays and con pictures and getting excited over really well done costumes.

But I personally, enjoy thinking up ways to get a reaction, a surprise, or a big laugh out of the audience. Weather through the acting, or the writing, or the timing, and I hope I'll have oppertunities to continue making people laugh in the future (as well as better costumes as time goes on).

Tenya Muyo
09-09-2003, 11:11 PM
I think I need to explain myself a little more. I go for more presentation mostly because (1) I love acting, ( I AM an actor, or wanna-be), and (2) I haven't made a costume yet that I feel could stand up to some of the great cosplays that I've seen. Some, if not all of it just blows my mind and makes me go "wow, I'm dangeling from the bottom of the food chain!" ^_^; Until I can raise my skill, I'm leaning more to presentation on stage. I hope one day I can be as good as all of you out there! ^_^

Karisu-sama
09-12-2003, 06:19 AM
Karisu, you weren't at Worldcon this past weekend, were you? (I don't remember seeing you...) Do you go to Worldcons? ^_^
We do indeed ^^, but we can't afford to go to every one, so we weren't at TorCon this year.We are definitely hoping to get to NoreasCon in Boston for '04, though... (we were at Con Jose last year - I won a workmanship award there, and we were at the Millennium Philcon the year before, where we weren't in the Masquerade.)

I try to spread the word that if you don't have a really great idea for a skit, you don't have to do one. At Worldcon this past weekend, my husband and I had a very simple stage routine. We came onstage, posed a bit with a voice-over, and then did a very short (like 10 seconds) dance. That's it...and we won a presentation award. So simple is often the best.
Very true - and CONGRATULATIONS! ^____^ I'm pleased to hear about that! (got pics??)