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Ritley
07-13-2003, 03:41 AM
I'm just wondering if anyone here, enjoys the industrial scene.
(Before you post, do not post saying you like NIN or TooL, as they are not industrial)

I'm talking of bands like Delerium (more ambient, though), Front Line Assembly, Front 242, Celldweller, Circle of Dust, Prong, kLaNk, Skinny Puppy, and various bands which fit in this genre.

I am however, going to the Celldweller concert, in Flint, MI, as soon as Klayton announces the tour dates. (Celldweller == One man)

I know not many of you have probably heard of these bands, not many have. It's worth a shot though.

KANEDA
07-15-2003, 12:14 AM
90% of industrial is too flat, boring.. and stale for me.
and most of it is really corny too. LOL
(I end up having to listen to alot when I chill with this woman I know, and she's been a rivethead since the 80's.. and even she admits it's laughable)


when I do listen to anything remotely industial... it's alot more fluid and interesting. like 16-17's stuff. it's more like industrial-free jazz-noise

Flexei
07-15-2003, 12:38 PM
I used to really be into it, but unfortunately a lot of the bands I loved either don't produce music anymore, or they just make crap. I loved Frontline and the various side projects till Rhys Fulbar left the band... heard Rhys's solo project, Conjure One? Very similar to newer Delerium (Semantic Spaces and on).

My favoriites as of late have been SMP, Assemblage 23, and Stromkern.

daria_jack
07-15-2003, 04:40 PM
If you meen like Rammstein (which are industrial metal), I like what I've heard so far

BayushiKachiko
07-15-2003, 10:59 PM
Eh...I have to agree that most (granted, not all) industrial is just too flat to me, too. I've not heard any of the bands save for SkinnyPuppy, but I have heard of them, so I can't say what I really think of them. I do however like the gothy-industrial type stuff though (and I wish I could name some bands here) and saw a few really good ones a few years ago in NYC.

Why do you like industrial so much? (DISCLAIMER---I know that this sounds like an a-hole question, and it's really not meant to be.) I'm always interested in knowing why people are drawn to certain types of music, so that next time I listen I can possibly appreciate something I didn't notice before.

And If My Life With the Thrill Kill Cult counts as industrial, I do like them. =)

Flexei
07-16-2003, 09:35 AM
Why do you like industrial so much?
I think asking this is like asking someone why they like hamburgers. You just like the taste and can't explain it very well. However, i'm still going to try to explain why I like it at least a little bit.

First off, not all bands are to my liking, just like I don't like all anime. So saying "I like industrial" is possibly too broad a generalization. But anyways, for a variety of reasons.
-I like something I can dance to with a good beat, but I don’t like techno because it’s too repetitive and simple.
-I like the complexity and the depth of the sound. There are so many layers of sound on sound on sound. Simple songs with just a beat and some guy talking/rapping over it like you hear on the radio these days annoy me to no end.
-I like the energy of it.
-I think “traditional” instruments are kind of boring. You can only do so much with a combination of guitars and drums.

I do however like the gothy-industrial type stuff though
Do you mean like Wumpscut or Leather Strip or more like Cruxshadows? Of course, this also raises the question, where is the line when something is goth, or darkwave, or industrial, or synthpop, or EBM….

And If My Life With the Thrill Kill Cult counts as industrial, I do like them. =)

I’ve always considered them industrial, but I haven’t liked their stuff since they put out the crap fest “Hit & Run Holiday”. The stuff before that was fun though.

peaseblossom
07-16-2003, 10:17 AM
Skinny Puppy is pretty cool, but I'm partial to Ministry and the Revolting Cocks. However, I disagree with your contention that NIN is not industrial. They are. Only they made it big in the mainstream. That's like saying the Sex Pistols weren't punk just because everyone knows about them.

And as far as the line between genres...I don't think we should really try to differentiate. It's like calling people punks, goths, nerds etc. It's pidgeonholing.

steel_scum
07-17-2003, 08:31 PM
goddamn....i have a friend whos into all that crap...thrill kill cult, pigface, some other shit i cant remember..it all sucks!!

I can tolerate some like SOME kmfdm, oghr, and im a pretty big into NIN, but all that repetitive sampling and bass and shit..its awful.

Flexei
07-18-2003, 11:19 AM
goddamn....i have a friend whos into all that crap...thrill kill cult, pigface, some other shit i cant remember..it all sucks!!

I can tolerate some like SOME kmfdm, oghr, and im a pretty big into NIN, but all that repetitive sampling and bass and shit..its awful.


Well, I personally don't think Thrill Kill Kult and Pigface are good representations of the genre (or even good music), and if you've only heard the "popular" bands like NIN and KMFDM, then you haven't heard much.
Unlike some, i'm not going to say "you MUST like what I like because my opinion is godlike and always correct", but i'm sure i'd think much of what you listen to is awful as well.. to each his own.

sort of off topic, but I've noticed music discussion seems a lot like religion discussion. Everyone always thinks their opinion is the ultimate truth and anyone who doesn't see (or hear in this case) the same way as them is an idiot, or uncultured, or a heathen.... seems really silly...

BayushiKachiko
07-18-2003, 04:49 PM
Indeed, Flexei..it does sound an awful lot like that. I think we'd all do much better to realize that this is all opinion...and it's kind of hard to be wrong.

Also...

If I -did- happen to offend anyone with my question of "why do you like industrial music so much?" I sincerely apologize, and hope that you noticed my little disclaimer.

Personally, I like the Cruxshadows (got to see them perform at Albion/The BatCave/The Vault in NYC a few years back--was a really fun show.) much more than Thrill Kill and most if the 'hard-core industrial' I've been exposed to because the style is melodic, and I like the incorporation of the strings into the music. I'm really a band nerd at heart, so I have quite an appreciation for the classical/traditional instruments, especially combined with other genres of music they wouldn't 'normally' be associated with.

But don't get me wrong...if a song has a cool, heavy bass and makes me wanna go kick some azz, I'm all for it ^_^

KANEDA
07-19-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by peaseblossom
Skinny Puppy is pretty cool, but I'm partial to Ministry and the Revolting Cocks. However, I disagree with your contention that NIN is not industrial. They are. Only they made it big in the mainstream. That's like saying the Sex Pistols weren't punk just because everyone knows about them.

And as far as the line between genres...I don't think we should really try to differentiate. It's like calling people punks, goths, nerds etc. It's pidgeonholing.


yeah but then some people make the music to BE in a genre.
so they deserve to be pidgeonholed

peaseblossom
07-19-2003, 09:38 PM
Chris-dahling, you once again present a valid point! *smoocheroo*

steel_scum
07-19-2003, 09:39 PM
espescially if they suck

lunasreincarnat
07-20-2003, 10:15 PM
i like switchblade symphony and collide dats industrial @_@

peaseblossom
07-21-2003, 09:59 AM
Ah, we mustn't forget the Electric Hellfire Club.

Flexei
07-21-2003, 11:16 AM
i like switchblade symphony and collide dats industrial @_@
I'd always considered them goth... but labeling things is bad.. blah blah blah... whatever.. it's a shame Switchblade Symphony broke up....

Ah, we mustn't forget the Electric Hellfire Club.
God, i've always hated them so much. They're just so damn cheesy.... but they do put on a good live show... and I guess Mr. 44 isn't too bad a song.

just remembered, they've done some good covers too. I especially like their cover of Bela Lugosi's Dead.

peaseblossom
07-22-2003, 12:08 AM
Flexei: (Long time no see! ^__^) Eh, they don't bother me! Their cover of Bela Lugosi's Dead *is* really good, huh? I also like their cover of Killing An Arab is a pretty good one too. Can't touch Razed in Black doing Disintegration though!

lunasreincarnat
07-22-2003, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Flexei
I'd always considered them goth... but labeling things is bad.. blah blah blah... whatever.. it's a shame Switchblade Symphony broke up....
.


they may be "goth" now... but when both of them came out... they were very new and inovative... and like nothing like that had been ever done before... ya im sad they broke up... but im still a die hard fan... and tina does her own thing... i still prefer sbd over tre lux... but its good to see her doing other stuff... susan is living a happy life recording and playing with wierd sounds @_@

Flexei
07-22-2003, 11:09 AM
Eh, they don't bother me! Their cover of Bela Lugosi's Dead *is* really good, huh? I also like their cover of Killing An Arab is a pretty good one too. Can't touch Razed in Black doing Disintegration though!

I don't know.. i just find them just as cheesy as "god rock". I just find it so damn hokey if it's "Pray to God" or "Pray to Satan"..,. now maybe if they were a little more silly about it i could deal with it easier. They probably don't take it seriously, but it just comes across that way on the albums.... just doesn't sit right with me.
As for the Bela Lugosi's Dead cover.. i know it's horribly blasphemous to say, but I actually like it a little better than the original. The whold Bauhaus tribute album is actually quite good except for a few songs here and there. The Cure tribute album though... maybe I just love the originals TOO much to enjoy the album. I find myself thinking, why am I listening to this when I could just listen to the original. :)


they may be "goth" now... but when both of them came out... they were very new and inovative... and like nothing like that had been ever done before...

I just have a hard time accepting wispery "pretty" female vocals and calling it industrial even though I guess it certainly has the electronic sound.... it's just a very "goth" singing style.. guess i'm uncultured or something. *shrug* bah.. i'll just call it darkwave. I know it's "uncouth" but I LIKE to classify my music. It makes it easier for sorting and finding all my damn cds. Sue me. :)

Humm... maybe i'll call it the Flexei Music Prism....

lunasreincarnat
07-22-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Flexei


I just have a hard time accepting wispery "pretty" female vocals and calling it industrial even though I guess it certainly has the electronic sound.... it's just a very "goth" singing style.. guess i'm uncultured or something.


-.- you have a hard time accepting anything dont you? and they are industrial becuase thats where i find there cds in record stores.

KANEDA
07-23-2003, 02:11 AM
i think it's funny.. in a thread about industrial, no one mentions the fuckin kings of the sound..... EINSTURZENDE NEUBAUTEN!!!!

Flexei
07-23-2003, 07:38 AM
-.- you have a hard time accepting anything dont you? and they are industrial becuase thats where i find there cds in record stores.
Record stores are an authority? My own sorting system is all that really matters to me, and to me they're goth... or at least one of those shadey areas in between goth and industrial. Besides, should it really matter to you how I decide to sort them? Hell, i might just want to put them in with my Neil Diamond cds! MUHHAAAHHAAA!

i think it's funny.. in a thread about industrial, no one mentions the fuckin kings of the sound..... EINSTURZENDE NEUBAUTEN!!!!
Yes, you've made this point in previous industrial discussions. I don't mention them because i don't LIKE them. I'm not going to talk about some bad I don't care for just to make everyone think i'm so incredibly knowledgeable about a music genre. I don't need to name drop to proove to myself or anyone else that I know what i'm talking about.

BayushiKachiko
07-23-2003, 11:13 PM
Again, I agree with Flexei here. Mentioning names and brandishing obscure CDs shouldn't be the determining factor in whether or not someone is knowledgable about a genre, or if they have an appreciation for it.

Classifying music isn't always a bad thing. Sure, it helps the people at record stores organize their shelves--and with SO many little sub-classes of EACH genre, it'd be a pain in the ass to sort it any more than the basic Pop, Rock, Rap, Classical, so on and so forth. Ever talked to a 'hard-core raver?' Techno music can be broken down into eight million other sub genres, such as house, breaks, jungle, euro, and lots of other--I recall because I used to go to raves quite a bit. Hah! I like techno music AND gothic and industrial. Crucify me. Anyways, look at Hot Topic stores. Because they are a specialty store, they CAN afford to organize they're music section a little more. They have their sections rather poorly organized by punk, gothic, industrial, compilations, metal (I think) and others. granted, I think most of the bands they carry are over rated, overdone, and unoriginal, and rarely even bother looking at what they have.


But my point is this--

Labeling a music in a certain style is useful for two things, apparently--pissing people off by calling one band "goth" while someone else considers it "industrial", and helping clerks at CD stores neaten their shelves. That seems to be about it.

I could throw around lots of band names from all kinds of musical genres. And I can proudly say that I have an appreciation for at least one band or performer in each genre.

And to those of you that still want to argue about the classification of music types, try this--
1) First, take an intensive music theory course.
2) Understand everything taught in music theory (see step 1) and PASS music theory.
3) Track down the scores (If even possible) for bands you want to argue. (hope you can read music too--see step 1)
4) Analyze the scores. (assuming of course, you can actually get them) Figure out why certain types of music are considered what they are, instead of something else. (for example, what's the difference between baroque music and classical?)
5) Now, talk intelligently to someone about the music itself, NOT the way that band is marketed or represented.


There. I'm done. Take all that into account, fellow cheese balls.
Once you can do all those things (i.e. look at music for music itself) then you can start talking about musical genres.

Aaaaaaaand, Kachiko's pretenious moment of the day....

PS----For those of you familiar with Siouxsie and the Banshee's, they were "originally" a punk band, not a goth band. So put that in your straw and suck it.

KANEDA
07-23-2003, 11:38 PM
YEEEAH..
but that mainly works with older styles set in stone that don't really evolve anymore.
music theories kinda get destroyed in the modern world much of the time....

now there are more genres IN tiny little genres... you'd go crazy trying to actually dissect them and see why it's different.
even narrowing it down ALOT...

digital hardcore, d-jungle, deathfunk, breakcore, splatterbreaks, gabber, gabba, broken-beat, speedcore, noisecore, trashcore, raggacore, fuck-step, speedhall, power noise, glitch, glitchcore, tech-step, neo-rave, etc, etc....


most people woudnlt heve ANY idead how to look at any of this.. and most music theories would have a hard time with most of it...


and alot of the time... it's the political stance that makes the genre.. so even something that sounds similar... can't be it.


it's alll tangled up.

KANEDA
07-23-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Flexei
Record stores are an authority? My own sorting system is all that really matters to me, and to me they're goth... or at least one of those shadey areas in between goth and industrial. Besides, should it really matter to you how I decide to sort them? Hell, i might just want to put them in with my Neil Diamond cds! MUHHAAAHHAAA!


Yes, you've made this point in previous industrial discussions. I don't mention them because i don't LIKE them. I'm not going to talk about some bad I don't care for just to make everyone think i'm so incredibly knowledgeable about a music genre. I don't need to name drop to proove to myself or anyone else that I know what i'm talking about.


woah there hombre!!
first of all...
I think I maybe mentioned them like one time.
and anyways.. even if you don't like 'em they should STILL be discussed in here....
I mean if fucking Siouxie gets a mention in this thread.. why the hell not EINSTURZENDE NEUBAUTEN or THROBBING GRISTLE??

I'm not all into them really.. but I'd mention them out of respect for starting the whole goddamn movement!

BayushiKachiko
07-24-2003, 12:32 AM
It's true that music theory really only works with older, not really developing any longer styles of music.

My whole point to that was most people that want to argue about if a band is one style or not don't have any knowledge, or appreciation for the real basics of music. Most notably, I think lots of teenagers that have been exposed to only the tip of the iceburg of many genres, are the ones that argue most vehemently. It's all on how something is packaged, like a toy. If one band paints their faces than every other band that does it must be trying to imitate them in both musical style and image. It's how crap gets over-done and cheapened.

Flexei
07-24-2003, 08:05 AM
woah there hombre!!
first of all...
I think I maybe mentioned them like one time.
and anyways.. even if you don't like 'em they should STILL be discussed in here....
I mean if fucking Siouxie gets a mention in this thread.. why the hell not EINSTURZENDE NEUBAUTEN or THROBBING GRISTLE??

I'm not all into them really.. but I'd mention them out of respect for starting the whole goddamn movement!

I'll gladly admit that Neubauten, Throbbing Gristle, and Cabaret Voltaire deserve a lot of respect for basically being the progenerators of the genre, but I don't remember anyone asking for an industrial history lesson. We were discussing bands we liked (or don't like). Here.. maybe this'll make you happy:
Neubauten, Throbbing Gristle, and Cabaret Voltaire were all performance art bands (well.. at first they all were at least). Of those three, I actually find Neubauten the least enjoyable. At least with Throbbing Gristle, you can almost hear a little Psychic TV in there... you can tell that the sound was kind of growing into it... or maybe it's just Genesis's voice that makes me think that way. Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire changed and experimented and grew... I don't think Neubauten ever really grew past the performance art.

So, maybe now we can continue the discussion of more contemporary bands.
Anyone else get the latest Funker Vogt, "Survivor"? I'm modestly disappointed by it. They decided to go for a more EBM sound with this one (like Covenant or Apoptygma Berserk). Granted their previous sound was getting a little stale and all their albums were sounding the same... but it was a fun sound. I sort of wish they would of built on top of that. It was obvious they needed a change, but I don't know if Survivor was the right direction for them to head.