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View Full Version : This might just be me, but I really hate this...


SailorSaturn03
12-03-2009, 02:53 PM
I really hate it when people purposely TRY to make their cosplay more slutty that the costume warrants. I always see it and it just irks me, I mean, a lot of anime/video game/(some)comic book characters (mostly girls) are pretty risque on their own with poeple trying to make it worse.

In my opinion, it just seems like a cry for more attention. Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused:

DaniChan
12-03-2009, 03:17 PM
I totaly agree. It's like teenagers buying a maid costume for Halloween, their just buying/makeing "sexy" outfits for attention. I find it quite immature.

PhDPepper
12-03-2009, 03:20 PM
I don't think your the only one that feels this way.

But i guess in some cases, people have worked really hard on their bodies and are compelled to show it off, since they're very prideful of their personal victory. In other cases it really can just be for more attention in whatever way possible.

But I do agree in your opinion that a risque cosplay usually doesn't need to become even more risque.

Sondossa
12-03-2009, 04:18 PM
It's not just you.

I don't see this a lot in the States, though. When going through Japanese cosplay sites, I see too much of this.

However, if you're in shape than I don't so much if you're wearing it and you're not it shape.

Braithcakes
12-03-2009, 04:21 PM
I see so much of this, granted..most of our cons are in spring through summer when it's 80-95 degrees+ outside, but still...I see it alot

I view it as either a cry for attention, or showing off the bodies, but in some cases, the people in question really are just sluts :P very rarely though

kiratsukai
12-03-2009, 04:26 PM
It's not just you.

I don't see this a lot in the States, though. When going through Japanese cosplay sites, I see too much of this.


It may be because you're seeing it out of context.

Cosplay is, first and foremost, a popular sexual fetish here in Japan. A good half of the hits you're going to get in Japanese for コスプレ are going link to promos for adult videos, adult/fetish costuming sites and adult models.

As for nudity ~ meh. If anyone's ever been to Carnival, I'm sure you'd agree that short skirts and bellyflesh are just the tip of the public nudity iceburg. As long as no one's breaking the rules of the venue, I don't feel particularly annoyed or threatened by it. And it doesn't bother me any more than people making their own characters out of existing designs ("original" Sailor scouts, "original" Vocaloids). Altering a familiar character's design for your own vanity project can grate on the nerves for a moment... especially if people are particularly fond of the base character. But in the end, you wear what you want... and if you're having fun and following the rules, it really shouldn't matter what other people think.

Yunalicia
12-03-2009, 04:59 PM
It may be because you're seeing it out of context.

Cosplay is, first and foremost, a popular sexual fetish here in Japan. A good half of the hits you're going to get in Japanese for コスプレ are going link to promos for adult videos, adult/fetish costuming sites and adult models.

As for nudity ~ meh. If anyone's ever been to Carnival, I'm sure you'd agree that short skirts and bellyflesh are just the tip of the public nudity iceburg. As long as no one's breaking the rules of the venue, I don't feel particularly annoyed or threatened by it. And it doesn't bother me any more than people making their own characters out of existing designs ("original" Sailor scouts, "original" Vocaloids). Altering a familiar character's design for your own vanity project can grate on the nerves for a moment... especially if people are particularly fond of the base character. But in the end, you wear what you want... and if you're having fun and following the rules, it really shouldn't matter what other people think.

Here Here! I know a lot of people either forget or don't realize how sexual cosplay truly is in it's origin.

In Kelly Osbourne's Turning Japanese cosplay episode, it exposes somewhat of Japanese cons are really like. Standing around in perfect costumes while photogs take pics, usually sexual ones, not running around screaming and demanding that you need more pocky.

I think North America is still to Christian in it's values and likes to label people as sluts when they show off skin rather than confident in body image.

Sima Seph17
12-03-2009, 05:05 PM
Here Here! I know a lot of people either forget or don't realize how sexual cosplay truly is in it's origin.

In Kelly Osbourne's Turning Japanese cosplay episode, it exposes somewhat of Japanese cons are really like. Standing around in perfect costumes while photogs take pics, usually sexual ones, not running around screaming and demanding that you need more pocky.

I think North America is still to Christian in it's values and likes to label people as sluts when they show off skin rather than confident in body image.

Also very well said. I suppose everyone in this thread has pretty much made good points for their arguments. I would agree that if someone is obeying the rules and having fun, and not invading anyone's personal space or flat out violating someone, it shouldn't really matter. If they are not what you want to see, ignore them. It's just that simple.

If you see someone who is cosplaying a character you like, doing it well, and with slightly sexy modification, well, take it in and enjoy it. Pay attention to what you like, ignore what you don't. It's the cosplayer way.

ShadowSquall
12-03-2009, 05:14 PM
I sorta think being "slutty" as you say is fun.
Making somthing like a sexy no jutsu naruto character will obviously be made knowing that guys will be gawking. But at the same time it allows for A female to cosplay their favorite male character without actually crossplaying.
Similarly I noticed your Upcoming cosplay is Sailor Jupiter. Me and my friends were thinking of going as the male versions of the sailor scouts and I'd be Jupiter hahaha, lets face it, I won't look good in a skirt and I'm not a crossplayer.
Would a shirtless male Sailor Jupiter offend you? ahaha I doubt I'd go shirtless but its a convention and Its all about creativity and fun.

Ion
12-03-2009, 05:20 PM
...I think North America is still too Christian in it's values and likes to label people as sluts when they show off skin rather than confident in body image.

Fixed.

I think Puritanical is a better word because not all flavors of Christianity are as conservative etc. as one might think. Puritans however we notably strict in moral and religious beliefs and behaviors and shunned all things sensual. Ladies, please cover your ankles, you're being such sluts!

On the topic: I pay little attention to people "sexing" up their costumes. I majored in the arts and earned my MA. We did plenty of life drawing so I suppose I am accustomed to seeing naked and nearly naked bodies in class and images.

Unless it is a minor doing this without understanding implications of making things "sexier/too sexy", it's really up to the wearer and said wearer should already know that people may not agree with their "artistic liberties" taken when making said costume.

Cogetas
12-03-2009, 05:26 PM
I may be alone here, but I feel sorry for the girls who wear revealing outfits. I've seen girls get stalked by sex crazed fanboys, and I've seen many of those girls complain to security about guys/girls taking upskirt or down-the-shirt shots.

If a girl decides to show off her body the last thing she needs is people sexually harrassing her or people looking down on her and thinking that she's a slut.

A girl who is covered from head to foot can be a slut but you wouldn't judge her as such because she fits your 'modesty' requirement

Stop judging! Let people wear what they want!

alliebeth
12-03-2009, 05:35 PM
I may be alone here, but I feel sorry for the girls who wear revealing outfits. I've seen girls get stalked by sex crazed fanboys, and I've seen many of those girls complain to security about guys/girls taking upskirt or down-the-shirt shots.

If a girl decides to show off her body the last thing she needs is people sexually harrassing her or people looking down on her and thinking that she's a slut.

A girl who is covered from head to foot can be a slut but you wouldn't judge her as such because she fits your 'modesty' requirement

Stop judging! Let people wear what they want!

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

If a girl wearing a tight or revealing outfit is automatically labeled a slut, then what about all the guys with jeans so tight I can see the outline of their junk or the ones that run around without shirts on with their pants sagged all the way down. Apparently that's perfectly okay and that's just a fashion statement?

If a girl wants to shorten a character's skirt or lower the cut of the shirt a little more than usual, or even show some side-boob or ass-cheek, who cares? People should be proud of their bodies and I'm sick and tired of nudity being associated strictly with sexuality. Just because a lady is dressed skimpily doesn't mean she's inviting you to do her, guys. It's because she WANTS to.

SpellMeRed
12-03-2009, 05:45 PM
Honestly, it's up to the person...

Everyone has their own right to modify the person they are playing, to make more modest or even make it half naked. It's the persons' vision of what they want to do, not others.

alpha_helix
12-03-2009, 06:18 PM
I agree with this wholeheartedly.

If a girl wearing a tight or revealing outfit is automatically labeled a slut, then what about all the guys with jeans so tight I can see the outline of their junk or the ones that run around without shirts on with their pants sagged all the way down. Apparently that's perfectly okay and that's just a fashion statement?

If a girl wants to shorten a character's skirt or lower the cut of the shirt a little more than usual, or even show some side-boob or ass-cheek, who cares? People should be proud of their bodies and I'm sick and tired of nudity being associated strictly with sexuality. Just because a lady is dressed skimpily doesn't mean she's inviting you to do her, guys. It's because she WANTS to.

Just because I prefer modesty does not mean I find nudity necessarily sexual, that I'm easily offended, that I'm a prude, that I pass moral judgment on people who wear skimpy costumes, that I'm puritanical (proud atheist) or that I think everyone should cover up and hate their bodies.

I just think that when you wear a skimpy costume it's very liable to look trashy, especially if the construction isn't so great. It's a lot harder to pull off than many people realize. Now, sexing up a costume is even harder, and I think I've only seen one example that did it well. Usually, it ends up looking like you're desperate for attention and trying way too hard. I'm sorry, it's just not my thing.

And, yes, I consider it just as trashy for guys to show off their bulge, go shirtless when it isn't appropriate (guh...farmer tans at outdoor concerts :( ), or wear their pants sagging below their butt. No double standard on my part!

toshirua3846384
12-03-2009, 06:27 PM
personaly i dont care and it really doesnt offend me, i think its up to the indivisual wiether or no they want to modify it or not. also with this said it will offend me if they do modify it without discreation and taste, also if it looks shotty and overused or lack of nice materials then i really dont respect them or let alone the cosplay they use. but this is just my opinion. there are again some cosplays from diffrent anime/manga/or gaming series that also have skimpy clad characters that you might assume they have altered as well. i think if its well done and the person cosplaying the character should be givin the respect that he or she deserves.

Starlightslk
12-03-2009, 08:20 PM
There are enough slutty cosplays out there without having to slut up less slutty ones. Can't stop people from doing it tho, and people will choose to do so, I can only control myself and what cosplays I make and how I make them. :p

There was a time that I was forbidden by my parents to cosplay because my mom thought it was "too slutty" and only a "sexual fetish" thing. :sulk:

I've come a long way from my first cosplays which were much more modest to much more revealing cosplays of recent, mainly due to my getting in shape and an improving body image. But even so I choose make these cosplays accurate and not adding or modifying them to be more "slutty". But to someone who dose not know the character might think poorly of me for my choice of cosplay which isn't really fair especially since that's not how I am.

My brothers give me a hard time for even wearing a 2 piece bathing suit since they view that as slutty, let alone some of my cosplays. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that part of this argument lies definitely in the eyes of the beholder as to where the slutty line is and the intent of the cosplayer wearing the cosplay. :thumbsup:

CapsuleCorp
12-03-2009, 08:47 PM
Here Here! I know a lot of people either forget or don't realize how sexual cosplay truly is in it's origin.

Sorry, pet peeve. Must correct.

"Cosplay" - the idea of dressing up as characters from media or fantasy sources - originated in the United States. The term was merely coined by a Japanese reporter about something he witnessed in America, that being WorldCon L.A. 1984.

It isn't our fault that the Japanese have their own conception of what cosplay means to them and have fetishized it that much. It also means we have no obligation of re-importing their ideas of cosplay back into the States.

Yui
12-03-2009, 09:04 PM
Sorry, pet peeve. Must correct.

"Cosplay" - the idea of dressing up as characters from media or fantasy sources - originated in the United States. The term was merely coined by a Japanese reporter about something he witnessed in America, that being WorldCon L.A. 1984.

It isn't our fault that the Japanese have their own conception of what cosplay means to them and have fetishized it that much. It also means we have no obligation of re-importing their ideas of cosplay back into the States.

Thank you. I was just about to type the same thing. ^_-



There is also a difference between people choosing to cosplay characters that happen to not be wearing much as per their original design, and those cosplayers that choose a pre-existing character but then add their own interpretation to specifically wear less. I personally don't understand the second sort (since you can't enter masqs and such with a deviation on a design.) It almost seems to make more sense to just make up your own character from scratch at that point - but so long as it's legal to wear outside, I'd still consider it a valid cosplay.

CapsuleCorp
12-03-2009, 09:16 PM
HI YUI <3 man it's been a while, hasn't it? :D

ON TOPIC...I suppose I can say that while I support all that "you can cosplay whatever you want" and "as long as it's not naked it's good" stuff, but personally? I dislike it. But you don't care about what Cap thinks, do you? Course you don't.

THAT SAID...it isn't about the costume itself but the intent behind it. If you are actually intending to come off as a slutty, sexualized, fetish version of a character, and go into it with the complete, informed intention of making a hyper-sexual costume that people are going to consider slutty, that's entirely different from cosplaying an outfit that is already by design sort of revealing. If you're doing it for the purpose of titilization, then expect people to assume things about you. Since, really, it looks like you're doing it solely to seek the kind of attention that most of us don't really want. If you want to attract crowds of skeevy fanboys pandering to your physical shape, you go right ahead. I personally wouldn't.

I mean, really. If you're going to alter a character design to look more like what people perceive as being characteristic of a prostitute or exotic dancer, I would assume that your intention is to be perceived as a prostitute or exotic dancer. If this isn't your intention, then why are you doing it?

EgnirysFaye
12-03-2009, 09:37 PM
Thank you Capsulecorp and (And Yui) lol


Cosplay and conventions did NOT originate first in Japan. I've said this before and I've said this again....first con was in the U.S, in the 1930's, the first Sci-fi con with the very first costumer etc etc. LOOK IT UP PEOPLE. Not even Gothic Lolita was originally Japanese! But I'll leave it at that instead of writting another essay XD Overrall, it is very accurate that the term "cosplay" was coined by a Japanese reporter. Whereas the hobby itself as a whole was not originally Japanese.


People keep calling North America "Too Christian" yada yada yada on this thread, when really we brought out the first of many ideas of expression and freedom. Especially costuming and conventions. And for one thing, as if Buddhists, Muslims, Jews and followers of Shinto never had ideals about modesty and morality either lol but yet it always seems to be only a Christian thing huh? (Talk about bitter unfair generalization here) Even people of non-faith believe in modesty or morality just the same.


Anyway, back to the point. I personally don't like it, I mean...for one thing, conventions are for everybody, so that means there are alot of children and parents. There is also alot of young persons who are under 18. I'm 21 myself, and I don't care to look at too-much-information body parts. Why would you want to give a personal expression of being slutty? And to purposely do it? And not many people enjoy being around a show off anyway. It's not cute, and the impression does not convey maturity.

Not to mention it will most likely attract the wrong kind of people. Do you really want to attract some sort of pervert or creepy old guy who will later think about you at night? : /


Of course everyone has a choice, but the ability to make good choices and bad choices still exist.

SailorSaturn03
12-03-2009, 09:57 PM
To clarify, it's not necessarily offensive that these people are showing off their bodies, I mean if the character shows off their body then you should too to some extent.

If you are cosplaying, lets just say Rikku from FFX-2, then yea, wear the bra thing and the short shorts (or skirt, can't remember) and that's totally fine since that is what the character wears. BUT on the other hand if you are cosplaying Chun Li (I use this example since I cosplayed as her) and you just decide not to wear the tights so that everyone can see your thong or modifying the costume itself and making it into a low cut shirt then you aren't really cosplaying the character in my opinion.

To me, cosplaying is like becoming the character. You should make the costume as similar to the character as possible, if the character isn't showing their whole ass, then you shouldn't be either. I don't really see the "sluttyness" as a problem, but more the modifying the character's actual costume in order to make it more revealing. If you are confident in your appearance and body that's fantastic! I envy that since I am not that way, but it seems like a cry for attention when people go out of their way in order to make a costume risque.

One more thing since I saw this mentioned in this thread, girls can and do often get harassed at cons for wearing a revealing costume, even if it's not modified to be that way. I got harassed in my Chun Li costume and it wasn't even very revealing, I can't imagine what some of these girls who wear more risque costumes go through. So that being said, why on earth would anyone WANT that? To purposefully make a costume more "skanky" is just asking those creeper stalkers to follow you and harass you, so why would anyone do that to themselves willingly?

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-03-2009, 11:04 PM
Another one of these threads? Well, at least practically everyone that disagrees with it still understands that people have the right to wear what they want. As long as they are following con dress code rules/the law, stop worrying about it. Don't judge them, let them enjoy themselves, and enjoy yourself as well instead of worrying about someone else. It is all about having fun.

To purposefully make a costume more "skanky" is just asking those creeper stalkers to follow you and harass you, so why would anyone do that to themselves willingly?

NO. It is not asking for it. No matter how skimpy someone is dressed, it is NEVER okay to say "they are asking for it" or for them to be sexually harassed. Someone's clothing is never an okay excuse to use for being harassed.

alpha_helix
12-03-2009, 11:30 PM
NO. It is not asking for it. No matter how skimpy someone is dressed, it is NEVER okay to say "they are asking for it" or for them to be sexually harassed. Someone's clothing is never an okay excuse to use for being harassed.

I don't think they meant that it's an OK excuse, I think they just meant that presenting yourself in that way can invite unwanted attention, which is definitely true. Yes, it sucks, but that's the way it is.

On a related note, it bugs the hell out of me when girls in skimpy costumes moan about getting oogled by creepy guys. Again, no, it doesn't make it OK to be creppy, but what do you expect?

4ng31
12-03-2009, 11:31 PM
Sorry, pet peeve. Must correct.

"Cosplay" - the idea of dressing up as characters from media or fantasy sources - originated in the United States. The term was merely coined by a Japanese reporter about something he witnessed in America, that being WorldCon L.A. 1984.

It isn't our fault that the Japanese have their own conception of what cosplay means to them and have fetishized it that much. It also means we have no obligation of re-importing their ideas of cosplay back into the States.

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion at all? And what exactly are you correcting...the fact that it's a fairly large and exploitable fetish in Japan (and America as well)?

What does it matter where it started, if the current *main* source of the discussion is the media coming out of Japan? Even this very site is HIGHLY influenced by animu and mango costuming...I'll say more than over 75% of the costumes uploaded here are of Jap sources. So to deny it, is quite ironic in my opinion...

You also forgot to add the second half of that quote that states :

The coinage reflects a common Japanese method of abbreviation in which the first two moras of a pair of words are used to form an independent compound. Costume becomes kosu (コス), and play becomes pure (プレ).

...which means even the name itself is influenced by Japanese influence.

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-03-2009, 11:36 PM
I don't think they meant that it's an OK excuse, I think they just meant that presenting yourself in that way can invite unwanted attention, which is definitely true. Yes, it sucks, but that's the way it is.

On a related note, it bugs the hell out of me when girls in skimpy costumes moan about getting oogled by creepy guys. Again, no, it doesn't make it OK to be creppy, but what do you expect?

They have every right to complain about it. Even if it is to be expected, you said so yourself that it doesn't make it right. It isn't their fault that there are bunches of horny douche bags that can't keep their hands to themselves for five minutes. It will end up happening regardless of what someone is wearing anyway.

There is a difference between checking out someone that is attractive and actually harrassing them. From my experience it is highly unusual for a girl dressed like that to complain if a guy innocently checks her out and leaves it at that. If that's all he does, then its whatever. The problem lies in going past that.

Ginny
12-03-2009, 11:47 PM
I really hate it when people purposely TRY to make their cosplay more slutty that the costume warrants. I always see it and it just irks me, I mean, a lot of anime/video game/(some)comic book characters (mostly girls) are pretty risque on their own with poeple trying to make it worse.

In my opinion, it just seems like a cry for more attention. Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused:

Do you feel the same way about people who just dress skimpy in general? Or only cosplayers?

It seems like a waste of time to worry about what other people are wearing and judge them for it.

Naru7
12-03-2009, 11:48 PM
I agree. some females just have no personal respect and make the rest of us look bad D:<

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-03-2009, 11:49 PM
Do you feel the same way about people who just dress skimpy in general? Or only cosplayers?

It seems like a waste of time to worry about what other people are wearing and judge them for it.

THIS.

ShadowSquall
12-03-2009, 11:50 PM
Hmmm...
It seems this is more of an issue for women, I never really thought about the fact that girls might get a creepy stalker if they dress in such a way.
Men generally don't get stalkers and if we do we are too oblivious to notice.

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-03-2009, 11:53 PM
I agree. some females just have no personal respect and make the rest of us look bad D:<

You can't be serious.

Hmmm...
It seems this is more of an issue for women, I never really thought about the fact that girls might get a creepy stalker if they dress in such a way.
Men generally don't get stalkers and if we do we are too oblivious to notice.

Girls can sometimes be just as bad. They just usually aren't as creepy or open about it, but it definitely happens.

Chunlichan
12-03-2009, 11:58 PM
Do you feel the same way about people who just dress skimpy in general? Or only cosplayers?

It seems like a waste of time to worry about what other people are wearing and judge them for it.

I agree. That's actually what I was going to post myself. Now let this thread die, ppl. No one is ever going to agree, and that is that.

alpha_helix
12-04-2009, 12:00 AM
They have every right to complain about it. Even if it is to be expected, you said so yourself that it doesn't make it right. It isn't their fault that there are bunches of horny douche bags that can't keep their hands to themselves for five minutes. It will end up happening regardless of what someone is wearing anyway.

There is a difference between checking out someone that is attractive and actually harrassing them. From my experience it is highly unusual for a girl dressed like that to complain if a guy innocently checks her out and leaves it at that. If that's all he does, then its whatever. The problem lies in going past that.

I didn't say "harassing." Stalking, groping, taking cleavage/butt/upskirt pictures without consent, or any other invasion of personal space is not ok, and that is the kind of thing you should definitely make a big stink over and alert con security. But if it's just somebody staring at the chest, butt, legs, or whatever else you happen to be showing it off, well you're showing it off, what do you expect? It attracts attention to yourself, and it's something you have to be able to deal with.

And, yes there are plenty of girls who assume that, regardless of intention, any checking out, flirting, etc is a sign of a creeper.

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-04-2009, 12:06 AM
And, yes there are plenty of girls who assume that, regardless of intention, any checking out, flirting, etc is a sign of a creeper.

If they're THAT paranoid then yes, it would be rather annoying to hear them complain about every single person that simply looks at them.

SailorSaturn03
12-04-2009, 12:51 AM
Geez, I didn't mean for this to turn into angry discussion.

I never once said that it was "ok" to stalk someone or whatever so I don't know where you got that. All I meant was that when you intentionally modify a costume to purposely make the out more slutty, you can't expect those types of creepers to just look the other way, you have to know that the sluttier you dress, the more creepy people you will come across. That's not just cosplay either, that happens to people in everyday life.


It seems like at this point alpha_helix is the one that understands what I'm trying to say here the most... Thank you for that, I don't people acting like I'm terrible because they misunderstood what I said.

I've never really posted anything here and obviously I'm coming off wrong to a few people, but I believe I'm entitled to my opinions just as you are entitled to yours.

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-04-2009, 12:59 AM
It seems like at this point alpha_helix is the one that understands what I'm trying to say here the most... Thank you for that, I don't people acting like I'm terrible because they misunderstood what I said.

I've never really posted anything here and obviously I'm coming off wrong to a few people, but I believe I'm entitled to my opinions just as you are entitled to yours.

Well clearly you've misunderstood what I've said as well [IF this post refers to me]. I don't know why you think I'm angry; we're just having a discussion. I certainly don't think of you as terrible; I don't know you. I also don't recall saying that you're not entitled to your own opinion by any means. I highly doubt anyone else in this thread feels that way about you either.

VivaLaNinja
12-04-2009, 04:16 AM
Okay, we get what's going on here; Anyone can dress anyway they want to, and they should already know the consequences (Though, personally, I'd like it if young girls or boys under the age of 17 wouldn't show a whole bunch of skin. But I know that'll never happen...), but that doesn't mean they can be sexually harassed. Just be careful with what you chose to wear/alternate. Conversation over :]

Fong
12-04-2009, 05:07 AM
I really hate it when people purposely TRY to make their cosplay more slutty that the costume warrants. I always see it and it just irks me, I mean, a lot of anime/video game/(some)comic book characters (mostly girls) are pretty risque on their own with poeple trying to make it worse.

Perhaps you shouldn't look, then?

It's a got dang costume. Even if someone does do a skimpy costume that's not accurate, there's always going to be a perfectly accurate costume of another character showing more skin making the first one moot. If it's a debate on accuracy I argue the same thing, though.

Skin is skin, a body is a body, if you don't like it don't look. An inaccurate costume is an inaccurate costume, if you think it's crappy keep it to yourself and don't look. That's my opinion.

(Not that I'm insinuating that SailorSaturn03 was doing this exactly but...) If you want to unecessarily hate on people and judge them for what they decide to wear and how they decide to wear it go onto /cgl/ on 4chan and do it there, not here: this is a happy place.

BUT on the other hand if you are cosplaying Chun Li (I use this example since I cosplayed as her) and you just decide not to wear the tights so that everyone can see your thong or modifying the costume itself and making it into a low cut shirt then you aren't really cosplaying the character in my opinion.

Lol I've cosplayed Chun Li and I can tell you the nylons don't make that big of a difference honestly. Your naughty bits can still show if you're not careful. I also think the low cut version of that costume is actually one that's made by one of those cheap costume companies and that's why there are so many of them. I actually saw like two or three of the same exact kind at Otakon.

Kayu-sama
12-04-2009, 07:53 AM
I personally will never understand why a person would want to walk around in public wearing some of the things I see. I mean Yoko....tell me she doesn't honest to god look like a cheap hooker. If you toned down some of the accessories you could easily be mistaken as a prostitute. And people walk around with their boobs actually hanging out of their tops. That's really over the line as far as I'm concerned.

toshirua3846384
12-04-2009, 08:24 AM
I personally will never understand why a person would want to walk around in public wearing some of the things I see. I mean Yoko....tell me she doesn't honest to god look like a cheap hooker. If you toned down some of the accessories you could easily be mistaken as a prostitute. And people walk around with their boobs actually hanging out of their tops. That's really over the line as far as I'm concerned.

i just want to put out that i dont like gurren lagan but with this said gurren lagan can be and if not to my knowledge is classifed as ECCHI meaning soft porn or slightly perverted.

Giant Alucard
12-04-2009, 08:26 AM
LOL, I really don't get irked by the whole people sluttifying costumes (especially many of the younger girlsthese days it seems) or wearing sluttier versions of normal costumes. It is their money and their time and creativity they are putting into the costumes they will work, so they have the right to decide. Remember that in the end we're all still dorks/geeks/nerds dressing up as animated characters. And I dont think Yoko looks like a prostitute really since I've easily seen worse 2-piece swimsuits than what she wears. Just relax and have fun, this can be done without judging others.

Hmmm...
It seems this is more of an issue for women, I never really thought about the fact that girls might get a creepy stalker if they dress in such a way.
Men generally don't get stalkers and if we do we are too oblivious to notice.

And this was something I have noticed as well, but I've seen alot of guys just put on a wig, put on some tight pants and rip off their shirts and say they're a character. Are they looking for attention, *shrug* maybe, so I judge them or get annoyed, no. It's there porogative to dress how they want as long as they follow the rules.

And really, if you've seen worse costumes out there (skimpy ones) and can validate them (since they are anime designs), you should be able to validate them to yourself if it's what the person decides to make, it just sounds like you can't because they are going against you standards of modesty. I could be wrong, but this is just my opinion.

I mean look at it from my persepective. I'm a guy, in shape, and have cosplayed both Xerxes the God-King and a Spartan (which is walking around the equivalent of a leather Speedo). Why is this costume not looked on as negatively as a girl that wears as little (which most costumes for women wear more and a speedo I would assume, lol). Is it because I am a guy (horrible double standard for wmen if that is so), or the characters look that naked to begin with (maybe), Or I'm just that good to look at (had to put that in, cause I would like to think so, lol). like I said, it all goes back to having fun people!

Giant Alucard
12-04-2009, 08:36 AM
i just want to put out that i dont like gurren lagan but with this said gurren lagan can be and if not to my knowledge is classifed as ECCHI meaning soft porn or slightly perverted.

I don't think Gurren Lagann is classified as ecchi..... I've seen all of the series and enjoyed it immensly, but don't see any reason why you would classify it as ecchi or softcore porn. Theres no real nudity ( if the characters are naked something is always covering up the naughty bits) and the futherest the relationships seem to go all is a kiss (which then leads to death, lol). Now there may be some perverted humor, but thats a staple of most animes out there. If you think that is ecchi I will feel sorry is you ever see... say.... Golden boy (not really ecchi but very perverted.... funny none the less) or Puni Puni Poemi.

Snow_Storm
12-04-2009, 10:17 AM
Unless you are doing it in the name of art, nobody should dress slutty in cosplay out in pubic.

sweetnsassy
12-04-2009, 11:18 AM
Personally, I dislike revealing costumes (and clothing) in general. I realize and respect that people have the right to wear whatever they want to; I just have modest tendencies. Really, my main beef with costumes that have been modified to be more revealing is the fact that they're not accurate and I prize accuracy in my cosplay. Also, I do have to say I strongly disapprove of revealing costumes at cons because there are small children around. I know that if I had a kid, I would NOT appreciate having some half-naked man or woman strutting around the dealer's room.

Angathol
12-04-2009, 11:35 AM
Someone can wear a revealing costume and still be classy; wearing less clothing doesn't mean you have less dignity or self-respect than the next person. It all depends on how you carry yourself.

It's similar to the difference between an artistic nude and a pornographic nude. One is simply minding its own business while the other is projecting a sexual image. In the same way that an artistic nude is not pornographic, a person who happens to be wearing minimal clothing but is acting civilized and not overtly sexual isn't necessarily "slutty."

DespairedPheonix
12-04-2009, 11:41 AM
Okay seriously, this completely offended me:


Just because someone dresses "revealing" doesnt make them a slut. Really, that's a horrible label to place on someone based on how they dress. You shouldn't judge people like that. Seriously. We dress up as anime and video game characters to go to conventions. We are the LAST people to judge people on how they dress.

Okay now that this is out of the way.

It doesn't bother me, really. It bothers me when someone doesnt have the body for it. But if someone has spent a significant amount of time on their bodies, they have a right to show it off. Hell if I had a better body I'd cosplay shirtless characters and stuff too. Of course tho, there's the whole "but you're a guy" thing which is COMPLETELY sexist. Why are guys allowed to cosplay shirtless characters but when girls wear bikini tops and short shorts suddenly their slutty? Come on people. Seriously.


Learn your sources. As kiratsukai said, you have no idea what cosplay is in Japan. Cosplay in Japan is a whole other world, and a whole other definition.

Conventions? It's not hitting people with yaoi paddles, screaming you just lost the game, screaming buttscratcha, or shooting around random internet memes left and right.

Cosplay originated in Japan as something very different from what it became in America.


As for a cry for attention:

Are you kidding me? You're dressed up...as an anime/manga/video game character. Don't even go there with the "cry for attention" tidbit.

jinglebooboo
12-04-2009, 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by toshirua3846384
i just want to put out that i dont like gurren lagan but with this said gurren lagan can be and if not to my knowledge is classifed as ECCHI meaning soft porn or slightly perverted.
soft core porn O.o are we thinking fo the same anime..? i have watched this whole series more times then any other anime, it is to be blunt, an amazing anime with amazingly different outfits. (in my opinion). there is no nudity, there is sexual humor, but i don't see how it is porn like. yoko's outfit is revealing, but that is her character, and she wouldn't be as much of a badass vixen in anything else.

oh wow rantness sorry, just irked me
now about costumes, i think it is odd to change a character to make her/him more revealing, if you want a revealing character, there are plenty out there to choose from. but, that being said, already revealing cosplays are a ok with me, i actually like them. i feel motivated when i see people in revealing outfits, it makes me want to get in shape and wear there outfit.
maybe for some people they want attention from being skimpy, but who cares? who doesn't love attention and to be photographed?

hope that made sense ha ha

toshirua3846384
12-04-2009, 12:48 PM
soft core porn O.o are we thinking fo the same anime..? i have watched this whole series more times then any other anime, it is to be blunt, an amazing anime with amazingly different outfits. (in my opinion). there is no nudity, there is sexual humor, but i don't see how it is porn like. yoko's outfit is revealing, but that is her character, and she wouldn't be as much of a badass vixen in anything else.

oh wow rantness sorry, just irked me
now about costumes, i think it is odd to change a character to make her/him more revealing, if you want a revealing character, there are plenty out there to choose from. but, that being said, already revealing cosplays are a ok with me, i actually like them. i feel motivated when i see people in revealing outfits, it makes me want to get in shape and wear there outfit.
maybe for some people they want attention from being skimpy, but who cares? who doesn't love attention and to be photographed?

hope that made sense ha ha

no um you misunderstood my post, ecchi means soft core porn OR slightly peverted with panty shot and what not, im not saying gurren lagan is entirely ecchi, it can only be considered ecchi because doko goes around wearing short shorts and a swimsuit top, and with this said its not porn at all but the fact she wears such revealing clothing it can be considered slightly peverted (making it ecchi). i also have seen gurren lagan to its entirety * and yes this includes the manga* my point is it can still be considered ecchi just becasue of the out fit she wears. thats all

yatak
12-04-2009, 01:39 PM
This might just be me, but I really like this...


But im a bloke... so, yeah.

Giant Alucard
12-04-2009, 02:08 PM
no um you misunderstood my post, ecchi means soft core porn OR slightly peverted with panty shot and what not, im not saying gurren lagan is entirely ecchi, it can only be considered ecchi because doko goes around wearing short shorts and a swimsuit top, and with this said its not porn at all but the fact she wears such revealing clothing it can be considered slightly peverted (making it ecchi). i also have seen gurren lagan to its entirety * and yes this includes the manga* my point is it can still be considered ecchi just becasue of the out fit she wears. thats all

I think even with yoko's outfit I highly doubt her outfit she wears would warrant the show to be called ecchi. Things like constant partial nudity, strong sexual undertone, the extremely perverted guy who usualy inhabits such a series; those would warrant the term ecchi (at least in my mind). By your standards, more than 80% of the mainstream anime out there would be ecchi. If anything look at your translation, and judge that their "slightly" perverted is on the level of softcore porn, you would see that gurren lagann doesn't quite rank up there due to Yoko's fashion shoices, lol.

sephygoth
12-04-2009, 03:08 PM
I view it as either a cry for attention, or showing off the bodies, but in some cases, the people in question really are just sluts :P very rarely though
This hobby = a form of getting attention.
To show off either looks,talent,or fandom, or all above. we ALL cry for attention. You could fill in skimpy for "complex", is it a cry for attention to make a huge transformer? a large winged character? sure ^^ why not
I agree, some maxed out skimpification seems to happen with cosplayers that don't even know the character, but if you've exercised your right to skimpify(ie cosplayed a lot), then hell,I see no reason not.
I also agree with others that this can promote a bad atmosphere, the "I hate it when people ____" I tried on another thread to mention it, but that went terribly wrong, and the wrong persone decided to get involved.
I'll admit it, I can be a slut sometimes...but I'm a guy so it doesnt mean as much.
GOOD example to fight the "sluttyness", its well concentrated and limited in use:
http://www.cosplay.com/photo/1720050/ props to *shiva* :angel:
BAD example I cant find atm anyway :confused:

Yunalicia
12-04-2009, 04:53 PM
What does it matter where it started, if the current *main* source of the discussion is the media coming out of Japan? Even this very site is HIGHLY influenced by animu and mango costuming...I'll say more than over 75% of the costumes uploaded here are of Jap sources. So to deny it, is quite ironic in my opinion...

You also forgot to add the second half of that quote that states :



...which means even the name itself is influenced by Japanese influence.

Exactly. I know convention costuming started very early in America but, today's standard of Cosplay is derived from Japan, and from such some of it's characteristics, may they be sexual or not, have transpired with it.

I honestly believe people who have a problem with seeing other people under dressed are not confident in their own sexuality and (whether conscious or not) feel threatened. Yes 14 year olds in damn near nothing can be creepy but I would not judge them for wanting to explore their sexuality. Repressing them ends up in them exploring sexuality in other ways which can be dangerous. People can argue but it's my opinion. I am pretty sure others who don't care would somewhat agree with me.

ShadowSquall
12-04-2009, 07:27 PM
I think that if your more worried about how someone else is dressed then you don't have your priorities down.
While I'm at a con I don't care how anyone is dressed but myself, I go to cons for myself, I go to enjoy myself and have fun, act in character or do things I normally wouldn't do.
Guys and Gals will cosplay skimpy characters for various reasons... It's their favorite character, they wanted to try something new, they are proud of their body image weather they worked for it or it came natural. All those reasons seem harmless to me.
I can only assume that if skimpy cosplay offends you then you never go to public swimming areas because sometimes I see girls in bikinis and shirtless guys. Gross, I know.

VendettaCode
12-04-2009, 07:56 PM
I think North America is still to Christian in it's values and likes to label people as sluts when they show off skin rather than confident in body image.

I really hate when people say stuff like this. It's like "Oh, God, they don't like public nudity/sexual fantasy/fetish type stuff. What a Christian." And I know you probably didn't mean that, but it seemed a little implied. XD Sorry, but it's not just Christians who see some things as immoral, and they aren't the only ones who label people. In fact, the true-blue Christians are the last to label. While religion does normally play a large part in this, it's all a personal thing for everyone. Being Christian or not has nothing to do with it, quite frankly.

Yes, cosplay is definitely sexual in origin. But the way I see it, cosplay is cosplay. So you can interpret it as you like: fun play, foreplay, and anything between. It's all a matter of who's cosplaying and why. This is what makes the world so unique - different cultures and individuals seeing things in their own light and acting appropriately.

So it doesn't bother me, but they'd better not expect me to have a nosebleed or ask for a picture. They don't have my attendtion, regardless. As a hobby, I don't see cosplay as a cry for attention. I don't dress up and go to cons because I want people to see me and be impressed or whatever. I wouldn't cosplay L if that was the case. XD I cosplay to be someone else for a day and have fun with it. Someone I admired enough to want to act like. Cosplay = Living theater. To me, at least.

But, I'll admit, "original" cosplays irk me. -w-' This is what seemes like getting attention to me.

Gosh, this post ended up long. XD

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-04-2009, 07:59 PM
Can we just rename this "BAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I don't like what everyone else is wearing!" Because that is basically as ridiculous as this thread is.

It would be different if this was a brand new issue, but this thread resurfaces EVERY month.

Jia Jem
12-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Hmmm...
It seems this is more of an issue for women, I never really thought about the fact that girls might get a creepy stalker if they dress in such a way.
Men generally don't get stalkers and if we do we are too oblivious to notice.


Girls can sometimes be just as bad. They just usually aren't as creepy or open about it, but it definitely happens.

Woah, wait.... WUT. As far as anime conventions go, I think the girls are MUCH more harassing towards guys (and crossdressing girls) than guys are. Girls glomp and scream at the mere sight of two cosplaying boys from the same series standing within 5 feet of each other and demand yaoi pics. Can you imagine if guys acted that way towards girls? Wow. It is a most regrettable double standard. I feel sorry for the dudes. D:

On topic though, sex-ifying a modest character doesn't bother me if done well. It can actually be really cool. To reiterate what has already been said, it only irks me when it is done poorly and sloppily. Exchanging craftsmanship labor for... uh, God's natural craftsmanship and calling it even just seems like a cop-out to me. But that is how you can tell I'm a girl who makes costumes and not the average guy I guess. :P

VendettaCode
12-04-2009, 08:08 PM
Woah, wait.... WUT. As far as anime conventions go, I think the girls are MUCH more harassing towards guys (and crossdressing girls) than guys are. Girls glomp and scream at the mere sight of two cosplaying boys from the same series standing within 5 feet of each other and demand yaoi pics. Can you imagine if guys acted that way towards girls? Wow. It is a most regrettable double standard. I feel sorry for the dudes. D:

On topic though, sex-ifying a modest character doesn't bother me if done well. It can actually be really cool. To reiterate what has already been said, it only irks me when it is done poorly and sloppily. Exchanging craftsmanship labor for... uh, God's natural craftsmanship and calling it even just seems like a cop-out to me. But that is how you can tell I'm a girl who makes costumes and not the average guy I guess. :P

So, so true. XD

Yui
12-04-2009, 08:27 PM
Woah, wait.... WUT. As far as anime conventions go, I think the girls are MUCH more harassing towards guys (and crossdressing girls) than guys are. Girls glomp and scream at the mere sight of two cosplaying boys from the same series standing within 5 feet of each other and demand yaoi pics. Can you imagine if guys acted that way towards girls? Wow. It is a most regrettable double standard. I feel sorry for the dudes. D:

And that is exactly why I'm terrified to ever cosplay Organization XIII members actually at a con anymore. ;_; So I wonder if wearing a completely NON-revealing outfit...but choosing to cosplay from a popular series with known rabid fans...is also "asking for it"...?

...Maybe I should cosplay a female character someday...dealing with creepy stalker dudes would be more reasonable. >XD

CapsuleCorp
12-04-2009, 08:46 PM
OH WARGARBLE. Guys. GUYS. I don't care what Japan has turned cosplay INTO, by foisting their own fetishes and adaptations onto the concept of dressing as a character in public. The fact STILL REMAINS that "cosplay" - the wearing of costumes at conventions - did not originate in America and Japanese concepts and standards are NOT the standards in America! Japan does it different - so let's leave it to them. There are thousands of conventions in North America, and we have our own standards which are informed by our much longer history and background of costuming, by our wider acceptance of all genres and sub-genres, and even our different laws on decency and dress codes in public.

By saying that we should just accept the Japanese sexualization of characters and cosplayers because "cosplay" is a Japanese loanword is stupid, I'm sorry. I'm going to stick to my guns on that one. Just because a lot of us use the word cosplay to refer to our costumes does not mean that we are automatically deciding that we're going to do it the way the Japanese do it. The Japanese got the idea from us, 25 years ago, and whatever they did to it in the meantime is not our fault and there's no reason we should just roll over and go with it. In North America, and many other Western countries for that matter, costumes at conventions include all genres, all styles, and everything from skimpy belly dancers to fursuits, from Slave Leia to Stormtroopers.

I really don't care if you say "it's all good" and "people should wear whatever they want" and "why should we be offended," that's fine. Just don't use an erroneous assumption on the origins of cosplay and costumes to back up your reasoning. You can have your opinion, just be smart about having it.

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-04-2009, 09:07 PM
Woah, wait.... WUT. As far as anime conventions go, I think the girls are MUCH more harassing towards guys (and crossdressing girls) than guys are. Girls glomp and scream at the mere sight of two cosplaying boys from the same series standing within 5 feet of each other and demand yaoi pics. Can you imagine if guys acted that way towards girls? Wow. It is a most regrettable double standard. I feel sorry for the dudes. D:



That is a good point though. Fangirls are nuts.

supergeekgirl
12-04-2009, 09:16 PM
The Japanese got the idea from us, 25 years ago, and whatever they did to it in the meantime is not our fault and there's no reason we should just roll over and go with it.

I love you, CapsuleCorp, for saying that. This is a fallacy that drives me NUTS. Wearing costumes to conventions DID originate in America, in fact at the first Worldcon in 1939 in New York City. Just 'cause some people think all Japanese people do it "better" (whatever that means), doesn't mean they invented it.

toshirua3846384
12-04-2009, 09:36 PM
I think even with yoko's outfit I highly doubt her outfit she wears would warrant the show to be called ecchi. Things like constant partial nudity, strong sexual undertone, the extremely perverted guy who usualy inhabits such a series; those would warrant the term ecchi (at least in my mind). By your standards, more than 80% of the mainstream anime out there would be ecchi. If anything look at your translation, and judge that their "slightly" perverted is on the level of softcore porn, you would see that gurren lagann doesn't quite rank up there due to Yoko's fashion shoices, lol.


wikipedia's defenition of ecchi-The term ecchi is applied to anime or manga that has vague sexual content (such as skimpy clothing, partial or full nudity), but does not show sexual intercourse, making it the manga equivalent of a PG-13 rated movie. Ecchi has historically often been used as a synonym of hentai, presumably due to confusion of the two; thus it can carry different connotations than allowed for by the original Japanese. In recent years, however, its use by English-speakers has largely realigned with the Japanese meaning — although H has become a completely separate term, inclusive of all of the above.

Uniforms, costumes, or outfits (all tightly worn) that may be provocative, but are worn as everyday clothing by the character. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecchi


thus yoko's clothing is ecchi by defenition, thats the only thing i am critizing; just her clothing and not the series, however with that said because she does wear that type of clothing you can consider the series to be ecchi or slightly ecchi.

Yunalicia
12-04-2009, 09:49 PM
I love you, CapsuleCorp, for saying that. This is a fallacy that drives me NUTS. Wearing costumes to conventions DID originate in America, in fact at the first Worldcon in 1939 in New York City. Just 'cause some people think all Japanese people do it "better" (whatever that means), doesn't mean they invented it.

Most of the things covered here at cosplay.com ARE Japanese in origin though. Yes, congrats you can read Wikipedia and know that Cosplay did not start in Japan, no one is denying that. But when you are going to an ANIME convention which is based off media from Japan, the con and people attending it are going to try and imitate in every which way they can, including sexualized costumes.

4ng31
12-04-2009, 09:50 PM
This hobby = a form of getting attention.
To show off either looks,talent,or fandom, or all above. we ALL cry for attention.

Bullshit. While the hobby might (well, more like probably is) be going this way, there are still those of us who do it for the love of the hobby/character/series. I'd like to consider myself as one of those.

Now I don't deny there are a ton of attention whores...I mean it's kinda obvious, but not every one of us is like that.

Most of the things covered here at cosplay.com ARE Japanese in origin though. Yes, congrats you can read Wikipedia and know that Cosplay did not start in Japan, no one is denying that. But when you are going to an ANIME convention which is based off media from Japan, the con and people attending it are going to try and imitate in every which way they can, including sexualized costumes.

This...all of it.

And I still find it hard to believe that you don't think there is some fetish elements that don't exist her in the US...that's just mind-blowing.

VendettaCode
12-04-2009, 09:51 PM
I've never trusted Wikipedia. XD Anyone can put anything on there. Whoever wrote that article could have been someone like you or me. They don't always know what they're talking about. I don't advise that you accept what you read on Wikipedia to be true.

Aqua's Rhapsody
12-04-2009, 09:59 PM
I've never trusted Wikipedia. XD Anyone can put anything on there. Whoever wrote that article could have been someone like you or me. They don't always know what they're talking about. I don't advise that you accept what you read on Wikipedia to be true.

THIS times over 9000!

supergeekgirl
12-04-2009, 10:00 PM
I've never trusted Wikipedia. XD Anyone can put anything on there. Whoever wrote that article could have been someone like you or me. They don't always know what they're talking about. I don't advise that you accept what you read on Wikipedia to be true.

Most of the things covered here at cosplay.com ARE Japanese in origin though. Yes, congrats you can read Wikipedia and know that Cosplay did not start in Japan, no one is denying that. But when you are going to an ANIME convention which is based off media from Japan, the con and people attending it are going to try and imitate in every which way they can, including sexualized costumes.

I said nothing about Wikipedia. I know about the first costume worn to a convention because I've seen the information (and the picture of Forrest Ackerman wearing it) in the International Costumers Guild archives, which is created and maintained as a historical record of costuming.

You guys take this "Japanese origin" thing way too seriously on this website. And you've got a serious attitude there about it, Yunalicia. Griping and nit-picking like your arguments about whether we should do things like the Japanese are why I don't post here often. I just saw CapsuleCorp's comment and thought it was a good note to make when many were trying to say things here should be more like in Japan. I disagree entirely with people who feel that way and think those people need to be nicer to those who 1.) cosplay for fun rather than to get the most photos taken or the most comments made and 2.) don't always do "Japanese origin" costumes at anime conventions.

Yunalicia
12-04-2009, 10:01 PM
And I still find it hard to believe that you don't think there is some fetish elements that don't exist her in the US...that's just mind-blowing.

I didn't say that, at all. Every culture has fetish elements that you can find everywhere. In an anime con setting however, those influences are mostly coming from the Japanese culture. Not saying it's 100% pure Japanese in any way shape or form, but it is mostly.



You guys take this "Japanese origin" thing way too seriously on this website.

The site is like 80% Japanese / Asian oriented. Of course people are going to refer to it a lot. I am no way a Japanese purist as some people are thinking. Most costume I have made are from Harry Potter or OEL Manga.

VendettaCode
12-04-2009, 10:02 PM
I said nothing about Wikipedia. I know about the first costume worn to a convention because I've seen the information (and the picture of Forrest Ackerman wearing it) in the International Costumers Guild archives, which is created and maintained as a historical record of costuming.

I was referring to toshirua's post. The one that DOES mention wikipedia.

4ng31
12-04-2009, 10:03 PM
I didn't say that, at all. Every culture has fetish elements that you can find everywhere. In an anime con setting however, those influences are mostly coming from the Japanese culture. Not saying it's 100% pure Japanese in any way shape or form, but it is mostly.

It wasn't directed at you? Why would I propose a counter argument after agreeing with what I quoted from your post?

SailorSaturn03
12-04-2009, 10:11 PM
Wow I'm surprised this thread is still active, lol.

I *sigh*... I don't know what to say at this point since my words keep getting mixed around and people are accusing me of "judging" others which is an accusation that really offends me. I'm not judging anybody, saying that a costume is inaccurate due to a person's modification of said costume in order to make it look more slutty is not judging. I never said those people are sluts because they dress that way. I know first hand that dressing provocatively does not make you a whore in personality...

Acrylicmochi
12-04-2009, 11:01 PM
Think before you post next time?

KaleidoStar
12-04-2009, 11:32 PM
Honestly skimpy costumes don't bother me as long as they follow the rules and are done well enough that they won't fall off. I have seen girls walking in a home made skimpy outfit at cons that suddenly fall off, not fun.

So for creeps, unless you wear clothes from head to toe that in no way can associate you with anything that has some form of fandom, then there will be creeps that follow you. Heck I had creeps following me at one Otakon when I was wearing Jeans and a tank top because I have a lotus tattoo. They followed me calling me fat NaNa. I didn't know that have a flower that has deep meaning to me automatically made me cosplaying Nana. Besides that...

The only real time I can say a cosplay got me slightly bothered was when someone cosplayed Aoi from Ai Yori Aoshi in thong and bra. Only reason it bothered me was to me putting a blue wig on and wearing something you wouldn't normally is not making you a certain character. Specially when it's something way off base for a character and it's not in any of the official work anywhere.

And by the way i did ask her who she was cosplaying and she told me it was Aoi.

Yui
12-04-2009, 11:36 PM
I believe what CapsuleCorp was getting at (and at least, what I would have been getting at, had she not beaten me to the post) is that we ALL borrow ideas and concepts from everywhere else, add in our surrounding culture, and let it mutate into something new. Constantly.

The Japanese were inspired by Western costuming and renamed it (with smooshed up English words)…and then that re-energizes interest elsewhere to the point that now the entire world is hearing about it. The Japanese like tons of US & Canadian comics/movies/cartoons just as over here we dig anime/manga/etc. Our animation and story-telling styles have started to fuse, and we all like characters from different sources.

It doesn't matter where you're pulling stats or facts from.
We feed into each other, but not necessarily all aspects from each area are palatable everywhere.
Some very common practices in one place do not surface elsewhere. You don't -have- to wear 6" sexy girly heels for every character just because the Japanese cosplayers do. (And not -all- Japanese cosplayers do, but perhaps those are more likely to get published in CosMode…because that is what the paying Japanese audience is expecting.)


In the end, there is no one true pure way to cosplay.
Be totally accurate or take creative freedom.
Just be sure you have a conscious awareness of WHY you choose to make a costume the way you do, and not just an uninformed assumption of what cosplaying is *supposed* to entail. You are putting some combination of time, effort & money into your costumes, so be proud of them. We are all helping to define this hobby/movement/phenomenon - so whatever and however you choose to do so, take a personal responsibility to that formation.

sephygoth
12-05-2009, 12:58 AM
Bullshit. While the hobby might (well, more like probably is) be going this way, there are still those of us who do it for the love of the hobby/character/series. I'd like to consider myself as one of those

but...wait, heh, Whats "bullshit"? ya agreed dude. "fandom"(as I wrote)...same as "love for the character" (as you wrote)^^ right? Either way I gotcha, and totally with that:
I have to be obsessed within a healthy level with my characters before I touch any project. Glad to have you on the same page: Do it for the dam character. Many many of my things are not uploaded, its for me,friends,gf,whatever. But a couple skimpy things have been produced for me or my gf by me, I regretted the ones done for my gf as so many ppl have given her attention of the crap kind. Project ditched since she really only cared to wear for me to accomodate the series, no hate, but the attention isn't worth it. a flip side to those who've been in cling-wear.

Skimpyness is perspective, envy is an emotion that exists but so many people in the world deny.Don't let it bother ya. To have distaste in it is ok, to hate it is ok, its your brain. But if they haven't done anything to you, what dos it matter? As Yui kinda said, cosplay is whatever the hell you indend for it to be, just do it for yourself. Honestly if its the biggest thing to worry about, you have life pretty easy. Enjoy it :bigtu:

kiratsukai
12-05-2009, 05:06 AM
*blinks*

1) The original reason Japanese cosplay fetish was brought up in this thread was because one poster expressed distress over the skimpy costumes that were appearing in searches and reposts of cosplay photos of Japanese origin. I brought the fetish up because it's something that EXISTS and is well-represented on the web... and for someone living overseas who doesn't go to events to see pictures from porn and assume they're of "cosplayers" and not porno actresses is slightly frustrating. Most Japanese cosplayers dress appropriately. In fact, there's far less intentional alteration of costume designs (probably because most costumes are being purchased pre-made or commissioned).

2) The argument about the origin of "cosplay" is pretty pointless since the term is being used both in wikipedia and here to refer solely to convention-based costuming and not to costuming in general. I'm fairly sure costuming was not invented by Americans and know for a fact that the Japanese have a long tradition of dressing up in crazy shit too (see "kabuki" for some examples.) While we're at it ~ so do Brazillians, Namibians, Estonians and smurfs. It seems like a feeble attempt to make something belong to a nationality when in reality ~ it doesn't need to BELONG to anyone. The whole argument seems an excuse for trivia-dropping, borderline xenophobia and elitism. Who cares?

3) I still read American comic books and watch American tv and movies. American characters bear just as much skin as their Japanese counterparts... skimpy clothing isn't part of manga culture: it's a part of sexism and gender expectations in ~both~ of our cultures. A lot of this material is being marketted to pubescent boys... and a lot of boys just happen to like boobs. If you're going to dress up like a character and choose one from media marketted at pubescent boys: you might need to show your tatas.

4) Since when is passing judgement on someone's personality and worth as a human being based on what they decide to wear acceptable? Seems to me some of us are too eager to cast proverbial stones...

(oh, and most of those huge heels and platforms are designed to simulate height... it's a symptom of a desire to be true to the character as much as it is to look sexy.)

toshirua3846384
12-05-2009, 06:06 AM
Honestly skimpy costumes don't bother me as long as they follow the rules and are done well enough that they won't fall off. I have seen girls walking in a home made skimpy outfit at cons that suddenly fall off, not fun.

So for creeps, unless you wear clothes from head to toe that in no way can associate you with anything that has some form of fandom, then there will be creeps that follow you. Heck I had creeps following me at one Otakon when I was wearing Jeans and a tank top because I have a lotus tattoo. They followed me calling me fat NaNa. I didn't know that have a flower that has deep meaning to me automatically made me cosplaying Nana. Besides that...

The only real time I can say a cosplay got me slightly bothered was when someone cosplayed Aoi from Ai Yori Aoshi in thong and bra. Only reason it bothered me was to me putting a blue wig on and wearing something you wouldn't normally is not making you a certain character. Specially when it's something way off base for a character and it's not in any of the official work anywhere.

And by the way i did ask her who she was cosplaying and she told me it was Aoi.

this i dont approve of when it comes to the aoi yori aoshi or enshi cosplay, it sounds lazy and attention seeking

Ion
12-05-2009, 11:05 AM
*blinks*

1) The original reason Japanese cosplay fetish was brought up in this thread was because one poster expressed distress over the skimpy costumes that were appearing in searches and reposts of cosplay photos of Japanese origin. I brought the fetish up because it's something that EXISTS and is well-represented on the web... and for someone living overseas who doesn't go to events to see pictures from porn and assume they're of "cosplayers" and not porno actresses is slightly frustrating. Most Japanese cosplayers dress appropriately. In fact, there's far less intentional alteration of costume designs (probably because most costumes are being purchased pre-made or commissioned).

2) The argument about the origin of "cosplay" is pretty pointless since the term is being used both in wikipedia and here to refer solely to convention-based costuming and not to costuming in general. I'm fairly sure costuming was not invented by Americans and know for a fact that the Japanese have a long tradition of dressing up in crazy shit too (see "kabuki" for some examples.) While we're at it ~ so do Brazillians, Namibians, Estonians and smurfs. It seems like a feeble attempt to make something belong to a nationality when in reality ~ it doesn't need to BELONG to anyone. The whole argument seems an excuse for trivia-dropping, borderline xenophobia and elitism. Who cares?

3) I still read American comic books and watch American tv and movies. American characters bear just as much skin as their Japanese counterparts... skimpy clothing isn't part of manga culture: it's a part of sexism and gender expectations in ~both~ of our cultures. A lot of this material is being marketted to pubescent boys... and a lot of boys just happen to like boobs. If you're going to dress up like a character and choose one from media marketted at pubescent boys: you might need to show your tatas.

4) Since when is passing judgement on someone's personality and worth as a human being based on what they decide to wear acceptable? Seems to me some of us are too eager to cast proverbial stones...

(oh, and most of those huge heels and platforms are designed to simulate height... it's a symptom of a desire to be true to the character as much as it is to look sexy.)

Tru fax - thank you for adding something logical and reasonable on this thread (again)!

People really should remember one of the first lessons their mama probably taught them (okay, perhaps it's only my mother who said this but it applies to ALL aspects of life),

"You can't control what other people think or do. You just worry about yourself and what will be, will be."

RaDragon76
12-05-2009, 01:02 PM
2) The argument about the origin of "cosplay" is pretty pointless since the term is being used both in wikipedia and here to refer solely to convention-based costuming and not to costuming in general. I'm fairly sure costuming was not invented by Americans and know for a fact that the Japanese have a long tradition of dressing up in crazy shit too (see "kabuki" for some examples.) While we're at it ~ so do Brazillians, Namibians, Estonians and smurfs. It seems like a feeble attempt to make something belong to a nationality when in reality ~ it doesn't need to BELONG to anyone. The whole argument seems an excuse for trivia-dropping, borderline xenophobia and elitism. Who cares?

I disagree. The fact remains that the word "cosplay" was coined as a result of someone having seen costumes at WorldCon, which is in itself not an American only convention. I don't think it's elitist at all to want to clarify an errorous belief among some cosplayers that cosplay itself is a Japanese invention when people have been costuming for decades, even before conventions existed and the term itself came out of that.

Each culture has its own native dress but those are not necessarily thought of as "costumes" within the cultures themselves. The word "costume" is just a losely defined term that people use for outfits of other cultures especially those that are elaborate. The terms "Costumes" and "Cosplay" as used here refer to the items people wear in a convention setting which would not necessarily be the case for items of clothing worn for say a religious ceremony in Africa or dancing festival in Ireland.

Personally, I get annoyed with people who purposely take a costume and make it more risque than it was originally especially when there are plenty of them out there are already revealing. I don't have a problem with Yoko or any other revealing costume if it is designed to be that way from the start. What I do have a problem with are costumes that are altered so that they are more revealing only because the person wants the attention that revealing skin gets. I think it does a disservice to the character, the series, anime in general and cosplay in particular when people do that.

Yuko
12-05-2009, 05:34 PM
Personally, I don't care if the character is moderately sexified. If they're following the rules, it's not bad, unless the person is one of two things:

A. Obviously underage, 15 or younger. I know that even had I had the body for it, my mother would have shot me before letting me out of the house in anything that went below my collarbone or above my knee, and I notice that a few (though definitely not all) parents seem a bit lax in their restrictions.

B. Crawling all over the nearest guy (whom they are not necessarily dating), and acting like a skank. I have no problem with con romance/hookups, whatever. But I really don't want to stare at people making out.

Cosplay_Rose
12-05-2009, 06:56 PM
You know what? Call me ignorant or judgmental or whatever, but it does bother me. I don't care when people cosplay characters who wear "skimpy" things on a regular basis, as long as they have the body to pull it off, no, not the "perfect" anime body, but a body that doesn't have things hanging out that I don't need to see everywhere. But taking a character that wears "decent" clothing and making it "skimpy" is pushing it too far for me. Unless it's at an 18+ convention, then for some reason it doesn't seem to bother me. Maybe it's the fact that they could be underage or that underage kids see it, I dunno, but besides that, it just doesn't feel right to me.

3) I still read American comic books and watch American tv and movies. American characters bear just as much skin as their Japanese counterparts... skimpy clothing isn't part of manga culture: it's a part of sexism and gender expectations in ~both~ of our cultures. A lot of this material is being marketted to pubescent boys... and a lot of boys just happen to like boobs. If you're going to dress up like a character and choose one from media marketted at pubescent boys: you might need to show your tatas.

That made me laugh harder than it probably should've xD

VendettaCode
12-05-2009, 07:15 PM
Personally, I get annoyed with people who purposely take a costume and make it more risque than it was originally especially when there are plenty of them out there are already revealing. I don't have a problem with Yoko or any other revealing costume if it is designed to be that way from the start. What I do have a problem with are costumes that are altered so that they are more revealing only because the person wants the attention that revealing skin gets. I think it does a disservice to the character, the series, anime in general and cosplay in particular when people do that.

This. XD

While "skimpy" costumes don't bother me in the "avert ye eyes! Disgusting!" way, it is a little irritating that they are giving others a cause to judge anime, a character, etc. because they want to flaunt their bodies. And let's face it, whether we each individually see it as cause to judge, some people are going to judge.

A normally skimpy costume, (since everyone's using Yoko I'll say) like Yoko, isn't bad. That is the character. Even if I were to see a "sexy-no-jutsu" Naruto with a nude body suit and clouds connected, I would laugh and admire their hard work and maybe even ask for a picture. But changing the costume to show more skin is very irritating. If they want to cosplay a specific characer, cosplay them. If they want to show a certain amount of skin, pick a cosplay that shows that much.

I do, however, get a good laugh out of cosplays that have been modified as a joke. Like my "sexy-no-jutsu" example. I would laugh if I saw a Sasuke (or whoever else from Naruto) version of that, or maybe even some other take on a joke cosplay (this just gave me an idea I want to try... XD). But if I came across a "sexy-no-jutsu" Ciel or something to that effect, I would probably die a little on the inside.

onewingedjade
12-05-2009, 07:22 PM
Haha, I'd like to see someone make it worse! Like this I-no I'm working on from Guilty Gear... you'd have to be pretty freaking creative to make it more slutty!

More and more I like cosplaying 'slutty' characters. I mean, I always dress in t-shirts, turtlenecks, and everyone freaks out if I show an inch of leg... then I go to the con with fully exposed legs! Definitely a vacation from the ordinary.

I used to have like the perfect body, but because of life I gained a few pounds, so I know better than to do anything super revealing... but I don't see the big deal. There's definitely a difference between the girls who want attention and those who just do it for fun. I've gone to con parties and seen girls flashing the guys. Now that's a cry for attention, but hey it's their life and their body.

I don't expect people to take me serious anyway. I'm dressed up as a video game character.

But, on a different note, I'm in my 20s. If you're 13 and doing this, I hope your dad finds out so he can tell you to tone it down for a few years. That being said I still don't show my dad my cosplays XD

Airst
12-05-2009, 07:31 PM
I generally won't ask a person in a revealing costume for a photo either, I wouldn't want to look pervy like the majority of the people taking their photos.

MDA
12-05-2009, 11:30 PM
It only bothers me if they make an already skimpy outfit skimpier.

I myself am doing what is called a risque cosplay for next year, but I'm doing it for the love of the character. Working on my courage to wear it though.

seresutochan
12-05-2009, 11:32 PM
I agree with you. If you want to be a slut, pick a slutty character. Otherwise cover up!

von Drago
12-06-2009, 03:12 PM
I disagree. The fact remains that the word "cosplay" was coined as a result of someone having seen costumes at WorldCon, which is in itself not an American only convention. I don't think it's elitist at all to want to clarify an errorous belief among some cosplayers that cosplay itself is a Japanese invention when people have been costuming for decades, even before conventions existed and the term itself came out of that.
Just a note of further clarification: "Cosplay" is "Costuming", not all "Costuming" is "Cosplay".
Convention Costuming orginated in the United States at Worldcon and originally developed at further Science Fiction conventions. It has obviously branched out considerably from there. RaDragon is correct in that Japanese fans saw this type of costuming at Worldcons and took the concept home with them, with then developed along somewhat different lines into Cosplay. :cool:

Fong
12-06-2009, 06:29 PM
To those who judge sexy cosplayers: Deal with it because they're gonna be ubiquitous no matter how much you hate them and complain about it: quit your b*tching.

To the sexy cosplayers who hate being judged: Deal with it because you chose the costume and should know exactly what you're getting yourself in to: quit your b*tching.

/thread.

Walladreyn
12-07-2009, 02:23 AM
I really hate it when people purposely TRY to make their cosplay more slutty that the costume warrants. I always see it and it just irks me, I mean, a lot of anime/video game/(some)comic book characters (mostly girls) are pretty risque on their own with poeple trying to make it worse.

In my opinion, it just seems like a cry for more attention. Am I the only one who feels this way? :confused:

Let me begin my post by saying that I am not trolling. I'd like for you to take an honest step back and take a look at the costumes and/or pictures that you have deemed as being "slutty". While you may be absolutely right, I think that your arguement is flawed. If you saw somebody cosplaying as Lulu from final fantasy 10 who happened to have a flat chest, would you be offended? I postulate this question because as a matter of fact, some people would be. Many cosplayers cosplay with the intention of sharing their joys with the rest of the community, and by all means, if it takes a lowcut shirt to achieve that end, why not do it? Not to beat a dead horse, but there are many characters from JRPGs and anime who are dressed in revealing clothes.

In fact, it isn't just female characters either. I want you to go onto google and search for "Hentai Kamen." This is going to be my next cosplay. Is his costume revealing? Would you be offended if I didn't stay true to the characters design by allowing my package to be displayed for most of the world to see? Again, anybody loyal to the series probably would be.

Battousai-nii
12-07-2009, 02:58 AM
Reading this thread, I keep seeing all these platitudes about "not judging" and a woman's right to be treated well however she dresses.

But this misses an essential fact that should extraordinarily evident to those of cosplay: clothes carry a message to others. Do not dress in a way that conflicts with how you wish to be treated. If your costume resembles a street walker, it communicates "I'm easy" so expect every perv with a camera to come running. Yes, they are awful pervs who deserve to be slapped, but that does not excuse the person putting on the show and encouraging them.

I also have an aversion to people sexing up a cosplay, because it communicates that message about the character, which is acanonical and offensive to me if done with a character I like.

If anything, I wish people might make more reasonable versions of the really overly revealing anime characters, such as Yoko. I'm sure a Yoko with shorts a bit below her butt would still look sexy and accurate.

I also think it's completely stupid that women now think they have to show so much of their bodies to be considered sexy, when all you really need are some curves and nice skin.

Battousai-nii
12-07-2009, 03:37 AM
Just a note of further clarification: "Cosplay" is "Costuming", not all "Costuming" is "Cosplay".
Convention Costuming orginated in the United States at Worldcon and originally developed at further Science Fiction conventions. It has obviously branched out considerably from there. RaDragon is correct in that Japanese fans saw this type of costuming at Worldcons and took the concept home with them, with then developed along somewhat different lines into Cosplay. :cool:

As a life-long Trekkie I must add that cosplay as we see it today is little different from what I've seen at Sci-Fi Conventions with Star Trek and Star Wars cosplayers, who started the practice back in the 60s, imitating Rennaissance Faire but with specific characters. The Ren Faire people were imitating American Civil War Reenactment, a practice that goes back to 1913. Ren Faire started in 1957.
We use the term "cosplay" because it's trendy and there wasn't a specific name for it before. In practice there's no difference between fan groups dressing up as anime characters instead of Sci-Fi characters. The early Sci-Fi convention goers deserve the credit for the tradition.

Japanese culture has a bizarre, often amusing habit of importing Western culture and then changing it to something almost beyond recognition. Sometimes this is good: Japan imported children's cartoons and created anime. Sometimes this is bad: they imported the lighthearted and innocent custom of dress-up and it morphed into a bizarre sexual fetish.

So whatever cosplay may be like there, it's a Western tradition they imported, and we should get to decide what it is for ourselves. It should be noted that Japanese do not celebrate any holiday like Halloween where dress-up is encouraged. They do wear traditional Japanese dress for certain festivals and special occasions, but it is treated as a type of formal wear analogous to wearing a tuxedo. I've been told by a Japanese person I met that it is a sign of wealth in Japan to regularly wear traditional dress.

kiratsukai
12-07-2009, 04:22 AM
clothes carry a message to others. Do not dress in a way that conflicts with how you wish to be treated. If your costume resembles a street walker, it communicates "I'm easy" so expect every perv with a camera to come running. Yes, they are awful pervs who deserve to be slapped, but that does not excuse the person putting on the show and encouraging them.

This is the same argument used by those who blame women for being victims of rape.

They put on the show... they should have expected the attack?

Your clothes SHOULD NOT send any message beyond "This is what I want to wear". No one should feel comfortable judging people on account of their clothes any more than they should judge others on account of race, gender, body type or age.

Plenty of "compelling" arguments can be (and have been) made that black people are stupid, asian women are submissive wilting flowers, blonde women are easy bimbos, and women have no interest in Science, math, sports or video games... they're all offensive stretches made by people looking for excuses to look down on someone else they don't even know.

Here's what I can't wrap my head around:
What do you care?
How does someone else dressing in skimpy clothing affect you?

The only argument here I can somewhat understand is the one that people dressing in skimpy clothing may compromise the image of the rest of us in the cosplay community. But a good lot of the criticism seems more tied to subjective moral indignation or envy...

If every woman who shows her navel is a "whore" does that mean every woman who wears a turtleneck is a religious fundimentalist or a prude? Does me wearing an anime costume mean I have no friends, no sex life and sit at home clinging to a half-dressed lolita hugging pillow? Does it mean I write self-insertion fanfic, eat nothing but pocky and run around squealing in horrible Japanese? Because that's how quite a lot of people judge US. Is that a valid judgement? After all... we're cosplaying... and "clothes send a message."

Schuldig_
12-07-2009, 04:33 AM
This is the same argument used by those who blame women for being victims of rape.

They put on the show... they should have expected the attack?

Your clothes SHOULD NOT send any message beyond "This is what I want to wear". No one should feel comfortable judging people on account of their clothes any more than they should judge others on account of race, gender, body type or age.

Plenty of "compelling" arguments can be (and have been) made that black people are stupid, asian women are submissive wilting flowers, blonde women are easy bimbos, and women have no interest in Science, math, sports or video games... they're all offensive stretches made by people looking for excuses to look down on someone else they don't even know.

Here's what I can't wrap my head around:
What do you care?
How does someone else dressing in skimpy clothing affect you?

The only argument here I can somewhat understand is the one that people dressing in skimpy clothing may compromise the image of the rest of us in the cosplay community. But a good lot of the criticism seems more tied to subjective moral indignation or envy...

If every woman who shows her navel is a "whore" does that mean every woman who wears a turtleneck is a religious fundimentalist or a prude? Does me wearing an anime costume mean I have no friends, no sex life and sit at home clinging to a half-dressed lolita hugging pillow? Does it mean I write self-insertion fanfic, eat nothing but pocky and run around squealing in horrible Japanese? Because that's how quite a lot of people judge US. Is that a valid judgement? After all... we're cosplaying... and "clothes send a message."

Quoted for the simple truth of it. If you don't like what you see, peeps, then don't look. The need to put a label on people according to what they're wearing is your own problem, not others', and really, the opinion of people who need to put others down to make themselves feel better... well, let's just say that the people who matter don't mind, and the people who mind don't matter. :)

Battousai-nii
12-07-2009, 05:04 AM
There's a fairly large difference between clothes and "race, gender, body type, or age." You can choose what to wear very freely. The others are not such a choice. As I see it, this makes any argument comparing criticism of dress to racism or sexism a complete non sequitur.
Neither do the ideals of modesty compare with false ideas about anime fans, because ideas about appropriate clothing exist in so many cultures.

Truly blaming a woman for being raped can only come from a very hateful person who is himself a pervert. However, what about the cautionary aspect? There are often elements of risky behavior in these tragic events that deserve to be pointed out and criticized to keep others from meeting the same fate. Things like not leaving your drink unattended, watching alcohol consumption, etc.

Dressing in skimpy clothing puts you at risk. It makes you a target like a gazelle on the Serengeti. There's a reason why they call them sexual "predators." So unless you want sexually based attentions, I suggest avoiding that kind of dress.

Is giving a person advice to lock their doors blaming victims of robbery? I think not. It is the same in this case.

kiratsukai
12-07-2009, 05:44 AM
There's a fairly large difference between clothes and "race, gender, body type, or age." You can choose what to wear very freely. The others are not such a choice. As I see it, this makes any argument comparing criticism of dress to racism or sexism a complete non sequitur.

Maybe... but in this day and age, hair color IS a choice, as is the gender role you adopt. It can easily be argued that weight is a choice... and that it IS a choice is one of the arguments for hating on fat people. The religious right will tell you that sexuality is a choice. And in spite of your age not being a choice ~ continuing to live your life as you please and dress/act as you like in spite of it is. We're judged constantly by not only the "choices" we make... but by who people ~think~ we are on account of a single onceover or encounter. It isn't that we haven't made the choices... it's that strangers think they know why.

Fong
12-07-2009, 05:51 AM
There's a fairly large difference between clothes and "race, gender, body type, or age." You can choose what to wear very freely. The others are not such a choice. As I see it, this makes any argument comparing criticism of dress to racism or sexism a complete non sequitur.
Neither do the ideals of modesty compare with false ideas about anime fans, because ideas about appropriate clothing exist in so many cultures.

Truly blaming a woman for being raped can only come from a very hateful person who is himself a pervert. However, what about the cautionary aspect? There are often elements of risky behavior in these tragic events that deserve to be pointed out and criticized to keep others from meeting the same fate. Things like not leaving your drink unattended, watching alcohol consumption, etc.

Dressing in skimpy clothing puts you at risk. It makes you a target like a gazelle on the Serengeti. There's a reason why they call them sexual "predators." So unless you want sexually based attentions, I suggest avoiding that kind of dress.

Is giving a person advice to lock their doors blaming victims of robbery? I think not. It is the same in this case.

QFT

I can see exactly where kiratsukai was coming from...however there is a simple element of truth behind what Battousai says. If you dress in a cosplay that exposes a lot of flesh then you NEED to expect the proper reaction from the public. Don't look completely disgusted when, at the con, you have a parade of pervy fan-boys on your tail because (in my opinion) you can't possibly be so silly as to assume it wouldn't happen.

On the other hand, when precautionary measures are taken (for example, in my Rikku costume I always, ALWAYS made sure I had one of my bulky guy friends by my side to keep me safe) I don't otherwise see any problem with a showy costume. If one says that my costume was in bad taste I'd have to say I'm personally offended by it. It was accurate, I expected the good and bad attention and dealt with both of them in a mature manner, and (this is key) I also carried myself in a way that was respectful to both myself and others. I didn't act like a whore so why in the world should I be treated as such? I like Rikku, I like Final Fantasy, I wanted to be Rikku...in my mind there is nothing wrong with what I did.

However, I will digress to one of my previous comments on this entire matter and say this again: it doesn't matter if I'm offended because the truth is that I'm going to continue doing sexy cosplays just as I'll continue doing completely conservative crossplays; I'll do it because I love the character enough to take my very valuble time and money and put it into a re-creation of a character I adore...and I don't give a damn what people think (or, at the very least, I won't let it stop me). They'll have to deal with it, just like I'll need to continue dealing with persecution and judgment of others for my choices. Whether or not I think they're in good taste doesn't matter, there are judgmental and insulting people no matter what venue or hobby you get into: "everyone's a critic." To each their own, just be aware of what you'll be dealing with as a result.

kiratsukai
12-07-2009, 06:00 AM
I have a simple solution to all of this:

it's called shorinji-kenpo :)

The first move is a tear-inducing flick in the eyes followed by a sound nut-punt.

Though really... I'm pretty sure that most of the attention you get from skimpy cosplay can be averted by a pointed comment (earning you the verbal badge of honor: "bitch!") or a request to have someone's camera confiscated if they don't respect your request to stop taking pictures.

If not... shorinji kenpo.

Though really... is boys liking some fanservice so bad? How is male sexuality somehow more "predatory" than female sexuality? I see plenty of squeeing and crossplay kissing going down... and I've had more female stalkers than male ones. Seems that it's just as creepy on the other side.

I've met plenty of creepy guys in the TWO total events I've ever been to... but really, most of them were just rude jerks or intellectual infants. No one ruined my day or made me feel unsafe. And if they did, the other 200 people at the event would have had them on the ground in seconds.

Fong
12-07-2009, 06:06 AM
I have a simple solution to all of this:

I've met plenty of creepy guys in the TWO total events I've ever been to... but really, most of them were just rude jerks or intellectual infants. No one ruined my day or made me feel unsafe. And if they did, the other 200 people at the event would have had them on the ground in seconds.

Exactly my point, one just has to know what to expect and carry themselves accordingly =)

One of my future cosplays is Mai Shiranui from Fatal Fury. I'm definitely getting ready to prepare myself for that one; I'll have my boyfriend strapped to my leg that weekend, haha! Conversely for that same exact con I also plan on doing a Phoenix Wright crossplay. So it just goes to show that not all female cosplayers out there do it for the ("negative") attention, they do it because they love the character (at least I do) . Isn't that what cosplay is all about?

Yunalicia
12-07-2009, 07:42 AM
But this misses an essential fact that should extraordinarily evident to those of cosplay: clothes carry a message to others. Do not dress in a way that conflicts with how you wish to be treated. If your costume resembles a street walker, it communicates "I'm easy" so expect every perv with a camera to come running. Yes, they are awful pervs who deserve to be slapped, but that does not excuse the person putting on the show and encouraging them.


See this is an unfair assumption. So because street walkers wear skimpy or revealing clothes they take that right away from the rest of us? This is another prejudice that needs to stop.

To take it to the extreme, here in Ontario both men and women have the right to go around topless (or "topfree" being the politically correct term). It's been common place for men to be able to do this for a very long time, but women the right has just been in place for less than 15 or so years. So if I were to see a women walking down the street topless, would I assume she is asking for attention? Or automatically a street walker or slut? Not in the least, I would probably congratulate her for her confidence.

The same should be applied in this context. People who sexify cosplay more than it should are just trying to express themselves. Unless they are shoving their boobs in your camera or asking you purposely to upskirt them they aren't "asking" for anything. They are just another con goer trying to have fun.

Fong
12-07-2009, 08:41 AM
See this is an unfair assumption. So because street walkers wear skimpy or revealing clothes they take that right away from the rest of us? This is another prejudice that needs to stop.

To take it to the extreme, here in Ontario both men and women have the right to go around topless (or "topfree" being the politically correct term). It's been common place for men to be able to do this for a very long time, but women the right has just been in place for less than 15 or so years. So if I were to see a women walking down the street topless, would I assume she is asking for attention? Or automatically a street walker or slut? Not in the least, I would probably congratulate her for her confidence.

The same should be applied in this context. People who sexify cosplay more than it should are just trying to express themselves. Unless they are shoving their boobs in your camera or asking you purposely to upskirt them they aren't "asking" for anything. They are just another con goer trying to have fun.

I don't think Battousai was insinuating that everyone who wears a revealing costume is easy, but rather (whether they mean for it to happen or not) other people are going to interpret it that way...and it's true, people have received the wrong message when I wear revealing costumes and it has NOTHING to do with the way I act--but as Battousai also said, if you pick the costume you have to expect reactions from people: both good and bad and it's absolutely true...I speak from experience.

That's not to say the unsavory reactions aren't misguided, however...if you chose the costume you have to be mature enough to handle other peoples' responses...and they WILL respond.

Though I'm still on your side Yunalica, I believe women should be allowed to dress the way they want to regardless...they just need to know what they're getting themselves into and not complain when they're actually in that situation, lol. You can't go to a con in a g-string and not expect to get some cat calls.

Giant Alucard
12-07-2009, 09:34 AM
I don't think Battousai was insinuating that everyone who wears a revealing costume is easy, but rather (whether they mean for it to happen or not) other people are going to interpret it that way...and it's true, people have received the wrong message when I wear revealing costumes and it has NOTHING to do with the way I act--but as Battousai also said, if you pick the costume you have to expect reactions from people: both good and bad and it's absolutely true...I speak from experience.

That's not to say the unsavory reactions aren't misguided, however...if you chose the costume you have to be mature enough to handle other peoples' responses...and they WILL respond.

I agree with this and hate the double standard that arises with this. Myfriends and I did a 300 group at Dragoncon, we not judged as sluts or anything of the sort. Instead we were normally looked at as overly confident, probably bordering on arogant and looked at as meatheads/jocks since we trained very hard and were determined to show off the fitness level we had achieved. We also had quite a few girls with us that had achieved that same fitness level, and it I would be offended if she was judged harshly just for being female since I know all of them had worked just as hard as any man in the group.

And its also true that should you dress in a revealing costume, you have to be prepared for the reactions and critisim that comes with it. Not that I believe some of the reactions are right (stalking, groping, etc), but it's gonna happen. I've been lucky to be exempt from many of the negative reactions since i'm bigger than almost anyone I meet.

toshirua3846384
12-07-2009, 10:29 AM
I don't think Battousai was insinuating that everyone who wears a revealing costume is easy, but rather (whether they mean for it to happen or not) other people are going to interpret it that way...and it's true, people have received the wrong message when I wear revealing costumes and it has NOTHING to do with the way I act--but as Battousai also said, if you pick the costume you have to expect reactions from people: both good and bad and it's absolutely true...I speak from experience.

That's not to say the unsavory reactions aren't misguided, however...if you chose the costume you have to be mature enough to handle other peoples' responses...and they WILL respond.

Though I'm still on your side Yunalica, I believe women should be allowed to dress the way they want to regardless...they just need to know what they're getting themselves into and not complain when they're actually in that situation, lol. You can't go to a con in a g-string and not expect to get some cat calls.

i have never seen anyone wearing a g-string at a con lol

Fong
12-07-2009, 10:31 AM
i have never seen anyone wearing a g-string at a con lol

I've seen girls wear g-strings and bras as part of a generic cat girl costume. It was pretty extreme XD

toshirua3846384
12-07-2009, 10:43 AM
This is the same argument used by those who blame women for being victims of rape.

They put on the show... they should have expected the attack?

Your clothes SHOULD NOT send any message beyond "This is what I want to wear". No one should feel comfortable judging people on account of their clothes any more than they should judge others on account of race, gender, body type or age.

Plenty of "compelling" arguments can be (and have been) made that black people are stupid, asian women are submissive wilting flowers, blonde women are easy bimbos, and women have no interest in Science, math, sports or video games... they're all offensive stretches made by people looking for excuses to look down on someone else they don't even know.

Here's what I can't wrap my head around:
What do you care?
How does someone else dressing in skimpy clothing affect you?

The only argument here I can somewhat understand is the one that people dressing in skimpy clothing may compromise the image of the rest of us in the cosplay community. But a good lot of the criticism seems more tied to subjective moral indignation or envy...

If every woman who shows her navel is a "whore" does that mean every woman who wears a turtleneck is a religious fundimentalist or a prude? Does me wearing an anime costume mean I have no friends, no sex life and sit at home clinging to a half-dressed lolita hugging pillow? Does it mean I write self-insertion fanfic, eat nothing but pocky and run around squealing in horrible Japanese? Because that's how quite a lot of people judge US. Is that a valid judgement? After all... we're cosplaying... and "clothes send a message."

this is excactly my point

toshirua3846384
12-07-2009, 10:44 AM
I've seen girls wear g-strings and bras as part of a generic cat girl costume. It was pretty extreme XD

woah, oh nvrm now that i think about it felicia and morggin *cant spell* wear those i think

vampirate
12-07-2009, 11:56 AM
Here's a point that only a couple of people have brought up, most conventions are "family friendly". So it would be in ill taste to dress or act in a way that you would feel uncomfortable with in front of say your younger brother/sister/niece/nephew/cousin/etc or your parents. Now that doesn't mean that a girl dressed as the classic Lum for example can't carry herself with some class and be seen as respectable. But people should think twice about what they do and what they wear at conventions since they are public places. And once a picture is taken and it's out on the internet there's no telling where it will end up. If all someone wants to do is dress up in risque sexual costumes for attention then maybe they should reevaluate their convention going habits and perhaps just go to "adult" cons like Frolicon.

But personally I am irritated by people taking an existing design and making it skimpier for no good reason. So many people say they cosplay because they love the character/series/art/etc. And to me it just seems that if you really loved it then you wouldn't feel the need to make it sexier just to get more attention from horny fanboys/fangirls for yourself. If you just make it as it is supposed to be then it will be more likely that the attention you get for your costume will be from genuine fans of the character. And again there are already so many existing costume designs out there that are already skimpy. It just seems to me that the better option would be to make one of those so that they could at least be accurate. And if someone is just in it for showing off their body then there's probably better hobbies for that then cosplay.

SailorSaturn03
12-07-2009, 12:58 PM
Let me begin my post by saying that I am not trolling. I'd like for you to take an honest step back and take a look at the costumes and/or pictures that you have deemed as being "slutty". While you may be absolutely right, I think that your arguement is flawed. If you saw somebody cosplaying as Lulu from final fantasy 10 who happened to have a flat chest, would you be offended? I postulate this question because as a matter of fact, some people would be. Many cosplayers cosplay with the intention of sharing their joys with the rest of the community, and by all means, if it takes a lowcut shirt to achieve that end, why not do it? Not to beat a dead horse, but there are many characters from JRPGs and anime who are dressed in revealing clothes.

In fact, it isn't just female characters either. I want you to go onto google and search for "Hentai Kamen." This is going to be my next cosplay. Is his costume revealing? Would you be offended if I didn't stay true to the characters design by allowing my package to be displayed for most of the world to see? Again, anybody loyal to the series probably would be.

I see what you are saying and thank you for not coming at me with an attitude. I wouldn't mind if somebody has a flat chest and is cosplaying Lulu as long as the costume was accurate. I'm not trying to say that all cosplays need to be perfect and you need to have the body of the character to cosplay said character or anything, but I just think that the costume needs to be accurate. If the character dresses in a "slutty" like costume (lets say Yoko form TTGL since that example has been used various times in this thread) and you want to wear it then by all means, go ahead. But don't alter the costume itself in order to make it look more risque than it already is. And you are right, it isn't just female characters, but I see less males modifying their costumes in order for them to be more risque. When it comes to making it less risques to avoid nudity, it's understandable, but if you need to make it less risque then maybe pick a different character.

What it all comes down to for me, which I didn't state in the OP, is that the costume needs to be accurate (imo) and altering it in a noticeable way to the purpose of showing more skin is not staying true to the character. A lot of characters also have alternate costume that may show more skin, so that is something to keep in mind to if you wish to show off your body.

sweetnsassy
12-07-2009, 01:00 PM
Here's a point that only a couple of people have brought up, most conventions are "family friendly". So it would be in ill taste to dress or act in a way that you would feel uncomfortable with in front of say your younger brother/sister/niece/nephew/cousin/etc or your parents. Now that doesn't mean that a girl dressed as the classic Lum for example can't carry herself with some class and be seen as respectable. But people should think twice about what they do and what they wear at conventions since they are public places. And once a picture is taken and it's out on the internet there's no telling where it will end up. If all someone wants to do is dress up in risque sexual costumes for attention then maybe they should reevaluate their convention going habits and perhaps just go to "adult" cons like Frolicon.


THIS!!!!! Thank you so much for bringing this up, vampirate! As I said before, I'm not comfortable with the idea of little kids being exposed to skimpy, "skanky" clothes. Now that I have a nephew, I'm really concerned about what he'll see when his parents start taking him to cons.

Fong
12-07-2009, 01:05 PM
Here's a point that only a couple of people have brought up, most conventions are "family friendly". So it would be in ill taste to dress or act in a way that you would feel uncomfortable with in front of say your younger brother/sister/niece/nephew/cousin/etc or your parents. Now that doesn't mean that a girl dressed as the classic Lum for example can't carry herself with some class and be seen as respectable.

That's pretty much what I've been saying in a more succinct way. You can rock a costume with a lot of sex appeal and still have class. Conversely, you can dress up in a conservative little lolita costume and curse like a sailor and wind up being more offensive then the former. I believe it has more to do with the way a person handles themselves and less to do with what they are actually wearing.

Though I also argue that you can't control what people do and I personally wouldn't take my kids to a convetion until they were older because of that =/ There's a bunch of unsavory things that happen at cons that are far worse then any scantily clad girl. If I wanted to keep my kids away from women that were dressed a little too "mature" I would never take them out in public, lol. I've seen vandalism, heavy drugs, and a bunch of public drunkeness at cons though...I'd be more afraid of that--and to be honest THAT sort of stuff is what give otaku a bad name.

I wouldn't care if my nephews saw a bunch of skin, the human body is a natural thing and for the most part I find nothing wrong with it...they see worse things on MTV. The 200 people at Otakon who are walking around the convention center piss drunk at 9 o'clock? No so cool.

Battousai-nii
12-07-2009, 01:09 PM
THIS!!!!! Thank you so much for bringing this up, vampirate! As I said before, I'm not comfortable with the idea of little kids being exposed to skimpy, "skanky" clothes. Now that I have a nephew, I'm really concerned about what he'll see when his parents start taking him to cons.
Indeed. GFT

yournext
12-07-2009, 01:32 PM
I think a lot of cosplayers get sexy and cheap thrill mixed up. Because i don't think sexy cosplay is really what people have a problem with.

It's the girls who wear cheap flimsy costumes with their underwear and brastraps poking out and poorly put on make up. And their posture is horrible because they are a wardrobe malfunction just waiting to happen. It's pretty obvious they are neither comfortable nor proud of what they are wearing.

And the heels!! Oh the heels!>.< Girl's if you're going to wear them practice walking in them first! Invest in some comfy insoles and add traction to the bottoms. I saw this one girl in a standard haruhi suzumiya cosplay with bright red 4 inch stilettos! She was having a really difficult time walking in them, which made her skirt twist up until she was giving everyone a permanent panty shot. She looked very uncomfortable and it was kind of embarrassing to look at.

It's like the difference between a classy, sexy burlesque show, and a lapdance by bubbles the crack addicted stripper. Which one would you rather be [in public]?

BUT! I really enjoy seeing a nicely put together sexy cosplay. It shows confidence in your body and that's really attractive. I'm a girl and I think it's a every woman's right to feel sexy, confident, and beautiful.

Just don't cheapen it, dumb it down, or wear something that clearly you're uncomfortable in. Then your just cheating yourself. Make an effort not to look like bubbles the crack addicted stripper D:

Fong
12-07-2009, 02:18 PM
I saw this one girl in a standard haruhi suzumiya cosplay with bright red 4 inch stilettos! She was having a really difficult time walking in them, which made her skirt twist up until she was giving everyone a permanent panty shot. She looked very uncomfortable and it was kind of embarrassing to look at.

Haruhi doesn't wear heels unless she's in her bunny costume, I think? I have no idea why anyone would CHOSE to wear 4 inch stilettos unless it was for the sake of accuracy, LOL. Sometimes I sacrifice footwear accuracy for the sake of comfort so adding painful shoes when it isn't even accurate is beyond me.

BUT! I really enjoy seeing a nicely put together sexy cosplay. It shows confidence in your body and that's really attractive. I'm a girl and I think it's a every woman's right to feel sexy, confident, and beautiful.

Amen. Women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. I am a female and I too stand with mouth agape at a beautiful, sexy woman cosplayer. (My mouth stands even more agape at a sexy man cosplayer XD but that seems more rare to me). Sexy does NOT necessarily equal a lot of flesh mind you, but if the woman happens to be dressed scantily clad it doesn't bother me. I usually tell them how dayum good they look XD To be entirely honest it usually only turns my head if their costume is equally as beautiful. A gijinka pikachu in a bra and miniskirt might look good but it doesn't floor me like the other costume would. I usually don't look twice at them.

Giant Alucard
12-07-2009, 02:33 PM
Amen. Women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. I am a female and I too stand with mouth agape at a beautiful, sexy woman cosplayer. (My mouth stands even more agape at a sexy man cosplayer XD but that seems more rare to me). Sexy does NOT necessarily equal a lot of flesh mind you, but if the woman happens to be dressed scantily clad it doesn't bother me. I usually tell them how dayum good they look XD To be entirely honest it usually only turns my head if their costume is equally as beautiful. A gijinka pikachu in a bra and miniskirt might look good but it doesn't floor me like the other costume would. I usually don't look twice at them.

I think there's quite a bit of sexy man cosplay out there, but it's just harder to notice. It may just be one of those weird things to me, but it seems for a good sexy man cosplay, they are usually wearing more layers (like EGA and whatnot) then half naked bishi types you would normally think of when you try to imagine sexy for men (and usually most of those guys just come off as scrawny to me, lol). Or I may be totally wrong, lol. I've seen plenty of girls fawning over some pale skinny kid that I have to scratch my head in wonder sometimes. But hey, if thats what they like more power to them.

ShadowSquall
12-07-2009, 02:40 PM
I've seen vandalism, heavy drugs, and a bunch of public drunkeness at cons though...I'd be more afraid of that--and to be honest THAT sort of stuff is what give otaku a bad name.


LoL Vandalism, Drugs and Alcohol give Otaku a bad name? Sure but none are anything to be proud of and none of those really come to mind when thinking of Otakus.

Now shouting meme or glomping is something negative I could correlate with Otaku, not many other cliques would do such things. But the three you mentioned are quite common to all people and if anything Otakus are know for generally not being into such things. Maybe things are just different where I'm from.

On Topic, Such things do relate to skimpiness in the fact that most cons, whether they say they are family friendly or not, will have inappropriate things going on constantly. Parents may expect a convention about "cartoons" to be completely innocent but I would never let a young teen go to one alone.
Its really just like any party out there... There is gonna be sex, drugs, and alcohol. Get thousands of people to gather and crazy stuff WILL happen, you just gotta go in knowing what to expect and deal with it as best you can. Con staff can deal with any perverts that might be following you and that's probably the biggest threat out there since you have no direct control over what they do whereas you can refuse to partake in the other activities I mentioned.

This thread should be dead *rhyme* but its just too much fun.

VendettaCode
12-07-2009, 04:12 PM
Here's a point that only a couple of people have brought up, most conventions are "family friendly". So it would be in ill taste to dress or act in a way that you would feel uncomfortable with in front of say your younger brother/sister/niece/nephew/cousin/etc or your parents. Now that doesn't mean that a girl dressed as the classic Lum for example can't carry herself with some class and be seen as respectable. But people should think twice about what they do and what they wear at conventions since they are public places. And once a picture is taken and it's out on the internet there's no telling where it will end up. If all someone wants to do is dress up in risque sexual costumes for attention then maybe they should reevaluate their convention going habits and perhaps just go to "adult" cons like Frolicon.


This a million times over!

My first convention was insanely family friendly. It was great for people of all ages. So when some friends and I planned a second con, my mom wanted to come, and she ended up bringing my nine-year-old sister. The second con, claimed to be family-friendly, but there was a girl in an unbuttoned shirt (nothing underneath, not even open-shirt binding) and girl walking around in purple and black satin lingere, and stuff of that nature. That plus a lot of other stuff around the con just made it look really badly supervised, as if the staff didn't care that children and parents were there. (And then when I mentioned it on the forums, the conchair freaked and said that he can't stop one person from cosplaying their favorite character unless they stopped me, too. If someone knows a character that wears purple and black satin lingere, please let me know.)

Needless to say, now my mother has the very worst idea of conventions and cosplays and thinks it's all for homosexuals and "sluts." Ruined my little sister's brain, it did. :waaaah:

kiratsukai
12-07-2009, 04:27 PM
Cons are family friendly? O-o;

I've never been to one in the US but... in some countries, this isn't the case. Children are allowed at events, as far as I know, but so is a great deal of eye-level pornography... including (at Comiket) a 45-60 table lolicon/shotacon section and an entire floor of booths promoting erotic games. There's nothing at a Japanese event for children... which may explain why I've seen a total of maybe... 10, usually being toted around by cosplaying parents.

Bringing your children to an event where you know people will be dressing as characters in hardly any clothing (and vendors will be selling official goods of the same character) is as much of a choice as choosing to dress like one of those characters.

If the con is family friendly... the con's staff should take care to develop some rules to protect that atmosphere. It's on them to define the audience and atmosphere of their event, not the attendees.

Mangochutney
12-07-2009, 04:35 PM
There are a few convnetions in the US that are 18+ only or 21+ only. These are by far the minimum, and every other con is assumed to be an all-ages event.

Mind you, people can respond to that in any way that doesn't violate local decency laws or con regulations (i.e. the rules that protect that family-friendly atmosphere). I don't consider "PROTECT THE CHEEELDRUNZ" a good justification for adult squeamishness, but kids from infants to puberty will almost certainly be present at various times. Do what you think is appropriate in that regard.

kiratsukai
12-07-2009, 04:47 PM
You can see full-frontal nudity in a PG film now...

Most of these kids are teenagers misinterpreting their own burgeoning sexuality. They'll be embarassed one day... but just like you allow your children to attend the convention ~ their parents allowed them to (assumingly conscious of what they intended to wear). If they aren't breaking the rules, they've done nothing wrong. If you find the rules to be adverse to family-friendliness and the con has been described as such, the issue should be with the rules, not people following them.

Again ~ what of the vendors? Will they be required to stop selling figures that show skin? Will the con programming disallow showings of anime that contains drugs, smoking, sex or violence?

Someone will always be offended. You can't protect everyone from indignation. Especially when people so enjoy being indignant.

Let's not forget that a lot of the offending characters are from shows for children. Sexy no Justu was designed for a children's comic... odd she would be accused of traumatizing them :)

(has anyone noticed I'm playing the Devil's advocate yet? :3 )

Fong
12-07-2009, 04:49 PM
I personally will never understand why a person would want to walk around in public wearing some of the things I see. I mean Yoko....tell me she doesn't honest to god look like a cheap hooker. If you toned down some of the accessories you could easily be mistaken as a prostitute. And people walk around with their boobs actually hanging out of their tops. That's really over the line as far as I'm concerned.

Way to offend every single Yoko cosplayer. Good job: there's like a million of them.

I guess that just proves my point. No matter how much we argue on here, it matters not. Those who judge will continue to judge and those who want to cosplay in risque outfits will continue to do so as well. Nobody's complaining is going to stop anybody else from doing or feeling what they want.

Mangochutney
12-07-2009, 04:53 PM
O-o; 18 and up? Since when is showing some skin or wearing stillettos the equivalent of porn? Unless these people are ripping their clothes off and humping on the floor of the con, I don't think they require "adults only" status.

I think you're overreacting based on some mistaken info, kiratsukai. I was addressing your question regarding whether cons are family-friendly by pointing out that yes, nearly all of them are.

VendettaCode
12-07-2009, 04:54 PM
If the con is family friendly... the con's staff should take care to develop some rules to protect that atmosphere. It's on them to define the audience and atmosphere of their event, not the attendees.

I agree, but the con claimed to be family friendly. The rules weren't inforced so all blame in my eyes does go to the staff, but you'd think that if the con is claiming to be a family-friendly environment taht there would be children there, in which case I think I'd be a little more considerate than dressing like "scantily." I would just REALLY rather not have that around my little sister and my mother.

Fong
12-07-2009, 05:05 PM
I agree, but the con claimed to be family friendly. The rules weren't inforced so all blame in my eyes does go to the staff, but you'd think that if the con is claiming to be a family-friendly environment taht there would be children there, in which case I think I'd be a little more considerate than dressing like "scantily." I would just REALLY rather not have that around my little sister and my mother.

Then don't bring them.

Seriously? Do your mother and sister never watch movies or television? Do they not wear bathing suits or see people in bikinis? Are they forced to carry around permanent censor bars to cover up any exposed flesh on the human body? Then they probably shouldn't be going to a con, either. I'm not attacking you, your sister, or your mother personally...I'm using it as a general argument for this entire excuse.

Everyone knows what to expect at cons. It's little more risque then going out to a local walmart or mini-mall.

See: www.peopleofwalmart.com (www.peopleofwalmart.com/)

Anime conventions are JUST that: a convention for people who already watch anime. If you watch anime you already SEE what people are wearing! You know what to expect! If it exists in an anime it's GOING to exist in person. I'd even argue if you're watching it in the anime then what the heck is the difference? Because it's animated? That's a little silly.

Throwing my two cents in.

Yunalicia
12-07-2009, 05:08 PM
I thought cons for the most part were PG-13. Hence why if your under 13 you need a parent with you at all times. And this is what the AN site has posted on it.

"No flagrant nudity. This Masquerade is rated PG-13. There will be children in the audience."

PG 13 is pretty liberal (or 14A in Canada). So even though cons are considered 'family friendly' doesn't mean they are G or even PG rated.

Fong
12-07-2009, 05:11 PM
I thought cons for the most part were PG-13. Hence why if your under 13 you need a parent with you at all times. PG 13 is pretty liberal (or 14A in Canada). So even though cons are considered 'family friendly' doesn't mean they are G or even PG rated.

It's why if you're under the age you need a parent with you to pick up your badge or you need a parent to sign for you for pre-reg. It's why this entire thought it borderline ridiculous.

VendettaCode
12-07-2009, 05:16 PM
Then don't bring them.

Seriously? Do your mother and sister never watch movies or television? Do they not wear bathing suits or see people in bikinis? Are they forced to carry around permanent censor bars to cover up any exposed flesh on the human body? Then they probably shouldn't be going to a con, either. I'm not attacking you, your sister, or your mother personally...I'm using it as a general argument for this entire excuse.

Everyone knows what to expect at cons. It's little more risque then going out to a local walmart or mini-mall.

See: www.peopleofwalmart.com (www.peopleofwalmart.com/)

Anime conventions are JUST that: a convention for people who already watch anime. If you watch anime you already SEE what people are wearing! You know what to expect! If it exists in an anime it's GOING to exist in person. I'd even argue if you're watching it in the anime then what the heck is the difference? Because it's animated? That's a little silly.

Throwing my two cents in.


You're kind of implying that it was my choice or idea to bring them, which it wasn't, by far.

The issue isn't "exposed flesh" or anything, it's the fact that they leave nothing to imagination and flaunt themselves around like they're getting paid for it. It's not so much my mom and sister, I wouldn't want anyone under the age of thirteen or fourteen around that. And if I were to see someone walking around the local WalMart or minimall in a bikini, I would be a little worried for humanity as a whole. I would say that's a little uncommon. I'm not so much worried about what they wear as where they wear it, and even more so, how they act in it.

Fong
12-07-2009, 05:23 PM
You're kind of implying that it was my choice or idea to bring them, which it wasn't, by far.

The issue isn't "exposed flesh" or anything, it's the fact that they leave nothing to imagination and flaunt themselves around like they're getting paid for it. It's not so much my mom and sister, I wouldn't want anyone under the age of thirteen or fourteen around that. And if I were to see someone walking around the local WalMart or minimall in a bikini, I would be a little worried for humanity as a whole. I would say that's a little uncommon. I'm not so much worried about what they wear as where they wear it, and even more so, how they act in it.

No but you've been to a beach or a pool, yes? Why is it more offensive because it's out of context? This entire idea baffles me.

You see a bikini in one place and it's acceptable despite the fact that the same viewing, glaring public is right there. You wear the bikini elsewhere and it's somehow more offensive despite the fact that no more or less skin is showing. I'm not saying I'd feel comfortable doing this and I'd certainly catch some flack for it--but at this point something like that IS in-context at a con because it's a COSTUME making my entire point moot anyway O_o

vampirate
12-07-2009, 05:27 PM
To respond to a few statements: Yes, most American conventions are family friendly with the exception of conventions like Yaoi-Con and Frolicon, which I mentioned before. If it wasn't obvious enough you just have to notice how many contests have youth awards. Dragon*Con even has a daycare if that says anything. And yes, despite some of the pictures you see D*Con is an all ages event. It's just been my experience that most attendees there with risque costumes have the courtesy to not wear those until the evening. Most parents will have their kids tucked away somewhere by then. And if there is a more adult sponsored activity going on at a convention like a hentai screening or whatnot then parents just have to check out the program book and signs to avoid that content. But they can't really know to try and avoid the random yaoi cosplayers who start making out in the middle of the convention or the girl strutting around with her bits hanging out. And at least I find dealers rooms pretty crowded and have to search for things I'm interested in and manage to not have risque merchandise shoved in my face. When I was a kid and my parents took me out anywhere shopping I knew to stick with them and keep my hands to myself and not touch merchandise. So I don't know how the issue of taking a well behaved child into a dealers room would be that much of an ordeal.

Battousai-nii
12-07-2009, 05:45 PM
To respond to a few statements: Yes, most American conventions are family friendly with the exception of conventions like Yaoi-Con and Frolicon, which I mentioned before. If it wasn't obvious enough you just have to notice how many contests have youth awards. Dragon*Con even has a daycare if that says anything. And yes, despite some of the pictures you see D*Con is an all ages event. It's just been my experience that most attendees there with risque costumes have the courtesy to not wear those until the evening. Most parents will have their kids tucked away somewhere by then. And if there is a more adult sponsored activity going on at a convention like a hentai screening or whatnot then parents just have to check out the program book and signs to avoid that content. But they can't really know to try and avoid the random yaoi cosplayers who start making out in the middle of the convention or the girl strutting around with her bits hanging out. And at least I find dealers rooms pretty crowded and have to search for things I'm interested in and manage to not have risque merchandise shoved in my face. When I was a kid and my parents took me out anywhere shopping I knew to stick with them and keep my hands to myself and not touch merchandise. So I don't know how the issue of taking a well behaved child into a dealers room would be that much of an ordeal.

This touches on one issue of mine: I believe people should be able to make a choice about whether to expose themselves and their children to certain activities. Performing a behavior in public gives others no choice but to watch or remove themselves. I like the Dragon Con tradition of people keeping the risque costumes for after dark. It's unjust to tell people not to bring children so a small minority of cosplayers can dress up in skimpy clothing. They may wish to share the fandom with their kids and sometimes the cost of childcare equates to bringing the kids or not coming at all.

At Anime Expo I have seen a few slutty cosplayers, but as long as you stay away from the doujinshi booth and some of the anime screenings the convention is quite family friendly. It's also a natural and healthy evolution of the fandom that we are now multi-generational. I've met many families who chose the Anaheim Sci-Fi Convention as their summer outing of choice, and the Trek fandom was a wonderful bonding experience. Growing up Trek was the only thing me and my Dad shared, and I've already seen families happily cosplaying together.

Also, the ones who have most bothered me were obviously in it for the attention and kept setting up panty shots and generally being hyper exhibitionists. I'm not going to equate their behavior with freedom of anything, except impinging on my desire not to see their naughty bits.
Surely you can see the difference between a cosplayer in a properly fitting Yoko costume and a walking clothing malfunction who keeps bouncing around flirtatiously.

Fong
12-07-2009, 05:51 PM
I also like the continued use of the word slutty, which has the root word "slut." Which insinuates that revealing costumes are for sluts: not for the confident, not for the bold, just for the sluts.

A slut is someone who deserves the term for how they act, not what they wear. Do you know how I act? Am I a slut? I dressed as Rikku on a couple occasions, a costume that took me hours and hundreds of dollars to make. A costume that I (and many other men and WOMEN) adore.

I'd think twice before slinging the word around. It's offensive and horribly untrue in some if not many cases.


I'd think that we as cosplayers should accept people that deviate from the norm by dressing unusually. I find it somewhat ironic.

Captain Planet
12-07-2009, 07:15 PM
No but you've been to a beach or a pool, yes? Why is it more offensive because it's out of context? This entire idea baffles me.

ditto. still having trouble with the concept.

But back at OP,

I think it's hard sometimes to just EVEN UP ''revealing'' aspects of a character. In fact, many characters which would be 100% replicated in cosplay could still be considered, if not more, ''slutty''. By who? Well, by some I guess.

And we all know we aren't all flawless and rich individuals with the ability to mimic to perfection a character's attire. In fact, it's not always the point of cosplay for some in the first place! we all have our reasons, but point is, why should SOMEONE ELSE'S reason be less valid then another?

Where to draw the line?

{mise en scène!}
''O, this is such a slutty Aeris! How can she live with herself with such a shorter skirt!''

''O, this is such a perfect Rikku! the (*cough* lack of *cough*) skirt is flawless!''

So in one case we have a poor Aeris who's probably either have longer legs than ''back in the day'' where the cosplay was originally made, or simply wanted a shorter ''alternate'' skirt/dress ends up being looked down on because DJESUZ flesh is out there, and the original character design ''doesn't/OMGNERDRAGE shouldn't'' show as much. Big deal? weeeellll for some it seems like it will be.

And, on the other side, we have a flawless Rikku, which implies she will likely be much more ''revealing'' than Aeris, by the nature of the character itself, and well, she might not get pointed out as a slutty cosplay... except if you are one who's definition of cosplay revolves around having nothing but full plate and anything less is being a whore. (I'm not saying those who like armor are like that; it's just figurative... hell I wish I could go around in full plate instead of a Spartan because I LOVE armor... I'm just not good at making this/rich enough yet in my cosplay budget to go on with such cosplays...)

If I'd see inaccuracy which would lead to being revealing, I'd ''see what they did there'', smile, and walk away! Maybe take a picture or two if I find the costume well done but not without asking first :p

Sure there is a chance that you get picked on by stalkers when dressing up as ''alternate'' or ''sexy by default'' characters... but hey there's a chance one's armor will require several individuals to put on and MIGHT BREAK half way through the con. Why would anyone do that to themselves willingly? Because it's their idea of cosplay. Their way of being creative and/or having fun. It isn't perfect, but as much as some can whine about the drawbacks, clearly if they are ''coming back for more'' is because those don't outweigh the benefits they get from doing it their way.

P.S.: Quite an interesting topic (Partially because I guess... in the end.. as it was previously mentioned, no one is ever going to agree XD)! Good call OP and everyone else which contributed so far! ...even if half of it has been arguing on semantics ¦3

P.P.S.: Also, I agree with self-defence methods. Never hurts to be ready! (darn, such a huge thread, I'd have to quote so many @_@)

P.P.P.S.: I think cons are as family-friendly as Blockbusters if they had the Disney section next to the porn section. In the open. I mean, maybe not all cons are like that, but I have YET to find a ''family friendly'' naughty-stuff-and-ppl-with-naughty-costumes-are-kept-behind-a-door con. I'd like to see that. Seriously. Or at least one that CLAIMS to be Family friendly... given that seems to be more the case than actual family friendly cons existing out there.. Out of curiosity, mostly.

Ms. Valentine
12-07-2009, 07:37 PM
I agree with you wholeheartidly Fong! You too Captain Planet! It's not necessarily about what they're wearing, but how they act. A few years back I met the NICEST lady at a-fest and she was wearing a Theif Rikku (with a VERY short skirt), but she NEVER struck me as a slut because she acted so mature ( unlike a lot of douches, she acted her age not her shoe size) and she never did any questionable poses. However, there was a girl and a boy (I think they were together) who just randomly started making out on-top of each other, it litterally looked like they were having sex with their clothes on! I was just simply mortified and embarassed I had witnessed it. Not only that, there were children around under the age of 10 (why on earth people would bring their 6 year olds to A-fest is beyond me)
Those two are an example of why cosplay has a bad reputation, you only get a handful at cons, but it's just enough to ruin it for everybody T_T

SailorSaturn03
12-07-2009, 09:35 PM
I was thinking of some things to post in this thread while I was bored at work dealing with children, so I'm just going to post them. Mind you, they aren't necessarily directed at any one person, just in general. Here it goes:

About cons being family friendly, Idk what to say to be honest, I felt like AX this year was pretty family friendly, I mean sure, there were 1 million Yoko's and about 2 thousand Rikku's and such, but I felt like it wasn't all that bad. I just remember taking tons of pictures with young children (even a baby cosplaying as Chun Li!) who thought Chun Li was the coolest, it made me so happy. One little girl was too shy to ask me for a picture (she was maybe 5 or 6) and her dad came up and asked me and when I said yea and told her to come over she was so happy! I felt great after that, I love making people happy. I remember a Felicia that was there, and we all know how revealing that costume is, but she did the costume really well. It was very accurate and you know what, she looked gorgeous in it. She had an awesome body and even a pretty face to go with it. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that it's not the "sluttiness" of a costume that bothers me, it is altering a costume to make it more revealing. Cons really should be more family friendly because for most cons the whole point is to enjoy yourself and immerse yourself in the culture of the con (ie: comics at comic con, anime at Anime Expo, etc.), it's not a victoria's secret fashion show or anything.

You know what though, a lot of people here agreed with my OP to some degree, and I find it hilarious that people are still posting here saying that nobody will ever agree with me. I'm glad most (not all >_>) people on these forums are intelligent enough to have a mature conversation/debate about this without resorting to bitterness or bad comebacks, it's refreshing since I have been going to a board (on a different site) for 3 years that is the equivalent to /b/ with more rules. Thanks guys and gals for enlightening me and helping me open my eyes to some things relating to this issue, not maybe I will look at this topic in a different way, and thanks to a couple of you for giving me some good chuckles so far ^_^

ALSO, when I use the word "slut" I don't mean it in reference to somebody's as a person, I mean as a way to describe how somebody looks, hence the quotes and direct references to costumes not people >_>

lrn2morethanonedefinition.

Fong
12-07-2009, 09:45 PM
You know what though, a lot of people here agreed with my OP to some degree, and I find it hilarious that people are still posting here saying that nobody will ever agree with me.

It's not that nobody will ever agree with you it's that not EVERYONE will agree with you. The same goes for my argument too, though: I'm not a hypocrite.

The only thing I've been advocating this whole time is that people will wear what they want to wear no matter how much anyone complains =_=

I only got really heated when the fairness started getting sucked out of the argument and all of sudden the word "slut" was being used as unfair association and feeble arguments were being used to back up a weak statement.

I think that cons are as family friendly as you want them to be. Like I said before, if you watch anime you know exactly what a con is going to consist of...it's an anime convention. They're supposed to be PG-13; the parental consent forms say that much and if you look on any sort of age-rating system PG-13 consists of pretty much anything that doesn't show a weiner or a female nipple and hoo-hah. Buttcheeks good. Sideboob good. That's all considered PG-13 appropriate.

And like I said, as long as it's an argument of accuracy I could see why you're upset if you think it's kind of like defecating on the character. I even said I totally understand the whole Chun Li thing, I saw like seven of them at Otakon...but you pretty much have to just turn the other cheek and take pride in your work. ::shrugs:: Not to mention for every inaccurate risque cosplay, there's always going to be a strikingly accurate risque cosplay so if it's a matter of skin...well, it can always get worse.

Miyabi-
12-07-2009, 10:02 PM
Buttcheeks good.

...that might be PG-13 appropriate but it doesn't sound very sanitary there unless there are sheer to waist tights being worn over top of that. :confused:
I sometimes wonder if that's what cons take into account regarding exposed buttocks instead of rating.

Fong
12-07-2009, 10:04 PM
...that might be PG-13 appropriate but it doesn't sound very sanitary there unless there are sheer to waist tights being worn over top of that. :confused:
I sometimes wonder if that's what cons take into account regarding exposed buttocks instead of rating.

Lmao I meant for viewing purposes. I would peronsally wear nylons if my legs were exposed at all. I plan on doing Mai Shiranui who, for all intents and purposes, wears underwear underneath her giant tassles. I couldn't imaging having my butt stick to everything or get those weird indentations when you sit for one way too long...that would look AWFUL in pictures XP

SailorSaturn03
12-07-2009, 10:08 PM
I only got really heated when the fairness started getting sucked out of the argument and all of sudden the word "slut" was being used as unfair association and feeble arguments were being used to back up a weak statement.

I understand, but like I said, I don't mean to use the word "slut" in reference to a person per se, but more just as a term to describe what it looks like. I know most of these girls (and guys) probably are just normal people who are proud of their body and have lots of confidence which I admire a lot because I personally hate my body. I really just use the term in place of risque out of habit, but I just wanted to clarify I mean that in now offense to these people.

Fong
12-07-2009, 10:14 PM
I understand, but like I said, I don't mean to use the word "slut" in reference to a person per se, but more just as a term to describe what it looks like. I know most of these girls (and guys) probably are just normal people who are proud of their body and have lots of confidence which I admire a lot because I personally hate my body. I really just use the term in place of risque out of habit, but I just wanted to clarify I mean that in now offense to these people.

I would just adopt another adjective because "slut" and "skank" are derogatory where as I like to use words like "risque," "sexy," or "revealing." All three of those describe the costume without sounding offensive.

I cannot deny that my Rikku nor my future Mai costume are revealing, sexy, risque or even racy. I CAN deny that they are slutty or skanky because that insinuates that the wearer (myself) is a slut and/or a skank. You know what I mean?

I think a slut or skank can only be described if you know the person and how they carry themselves which cannot be decided based upon their character choice :crylaugh: I wear hoodies and jeans every day of my life and I've been in a committed relationship with the same fella for four years...so I'm far from skanky. You can't assume someone is a slut (or use the word to describe someone) based on their costume choice...it's a costume, you know? It's not who they really are. They're out-of-character just like any other cosplayer.

SailorSaturn03
12-07-2009, 10:17 PM
I would just adopt another adjective because "slut" and "skank" are derogatory where as I like to use words like "risque," "sexy," or "revealing." All three of those describe the costume without sounding offensive.

I cannot deny that my Rikku nor my future Mai costume are revealing, sexy, risque or even racy. I CAN deny that they are slutty or skanky because that insinuates that the wearer (myself) is a slut and/or a skank. You know what I mean?

I think a slut or skank can only be described if you know the person and how they carry themselves which cannot be decided based upon their character choice :crylaugh: I wear hoodies and jeans every day of my life and I've been in a committed relationship with the same fella for four years...so I'm far from skanky. You can't assume someone is a slut (or use the word to describe someone) based on their costume choice...it's a costume, you know? It's not who they really are.

I feel the same way you do, I suppose I can't expect people to know how I use it over the internet, and I do apologize if it sounds offensive. I will try to think of another word to use it it's place.
:)

Fong
12-07-2009, 10:19 PM
Accidental double post, my bad.

Migumi
12-07-2009, 10:27 PM
I just think that when you wear a skimpy costume it's very liable to look trashy, especially if the construction isn't so great. It's a lot harder to pull off than many people realize. Now, sexing up a costume is even harder, and I think I've only seen one example that did it well. Usually, it ends up looking like you're desperate for attention and trying way too hard. I'm sorry, it's just not my thing.

That's what i was afraid of when I did my first female cosplay in a while (Ranmao).

But thankfully I did it just right that the outfit didn't come off as skanky or slutty.

I saw a girl who had a maid cosplay on and for some reason she thought it was a good idea to slash open the cute blouse and the buttons just so she could show off her cleavage. It's things like that, that really bug me -_-''

There will always be attention w*ores... unfortunately -_-''

toshirua3846384
12-08-2009, 12:43 AM
I would just adopt another adjective because "slut" and "skank" are derogatory where as I like to use words like "risque," "sexy," or "revealing." All three of those describe the costume without sounding offensive.

I cannot deny that my Rikku nor my future Mai costume are revealing, sexy, risque or even racy. I CAN deny that they are slutty or skanky because that insinuates that the wearer (myself) is a slut and/or a skank. You know what I mean?

I think a slut or skank can only be described if you know the person and how they carry themselves which cannot be decided based upon their character choice :crylaugh: I wear hoodies and jeans every day of my life and I've been in a committed relationship with the same fella for four years...so I'm far from skanky. You can't assume someone is a slut (or use the word to describe someone) based on their costume choice...it's a costume, you know? It's not who they really are. They're out-of-character just like any other cosplayer.

Agreed; there are other "choice" words to describe a persons cosplay wardrobe other than using such a term as that. People usally cosplay as people they feel comfertable with, weither it be conservative, cute, or tastefuly scandalous, and yes they should be treated with respect. Also one thing that still puts my mind a flutter is that people would condem a person who wears a revealing costume as a slut; even if its equiped with accesories and made out of quality material that had hard work put into it and the person themselves is quite pleasent to speak to and be around, while they would praise a shotty mainstream character with a half done cosplay, that is not only hyper but blissfully ignorant to boot. Then the same people who praise the half done one would call those who support the cosplayer they condem a pervert, or someone with lack of respect for themselves or their own bodies. All of this is ludicrousy to me.

Auburn_Kitty
12-08-2009, 10:48 AM
My first cosplay was Kasumi from Dead or Alive.

http://www.cosplay.com/photo/2311718/

I wasn't going for a sexy look. Though Kasumi is sexy, big breasted but, I love her. I wore a bathing suit bottom underneath and a bra like this underneath.

http://www.bebeautiful.com/files/312064_0.jpg

I just saying here and I know what you mean by other girls cosplaying like more risque. I see it cons a lot. I even saw some girl(s) wearing regular "goth" clothing skirts and I could see her ass hanging out...like her cheeks and everything. :S I don't know I tend to ignore because I'm not there to show my body off. Not only that they are setting themselves up for danger by doing that and that's the last thing I would want to do for myself when there are a lot of men at cons (especially Fan Expo) and freaky people/stalkers (not everyone but, you know what I mean). I worked out for the Kasumi cosplay but, that's because she's a fighter and ya I my legs are exposed but, you know I just wanted to be toned for that. For me that was more of a self-esteem issue. I have cosplayed as Moka from Rosario+Vampire and the skirt came with a mini skirt. I wore extra underwear that day and I did feel a little uncomfortable but, after going to the con and seeing other girls with more exposed costumes I didn't feel as bad.

DespairedPheonix
12-11-2009, 11:53 AM
*blinks*

1) The original reason Japanese cosplay fetish was brought up in this thread was because one poster expressed distress over the skimpy costumes that were appearing in searches and reposts of cosplay photos of Japanese origin. I brought the fetish up because it's something that EXISTS and is well-represented on the web... and for someone living overseas who doesn't go to events to see pictures from porn and assume they're of "cosplayers" and not porno actresses is slightly frustrating. Most Japanese cosplayers dress appropriately. In fact, there's far less intentional alteration of costume designs (probably because most costumes are being purchased pre-made or commissioned).

2) The argument about the origin of "cosplay" is pretty pointless since the term is being used both in wikipedia and here to refer solely to convention-based costuming and not to costuming in general. I'm fairly sure costuming was not invented by Americans and know for a fact that the Japanese have a long tradition of dressing up in crazy shit too (see "kabuki" for some examples.) While we're at it ~ so do Brazillians, Namibians, Estonians and smurfs. It seems like a feeble attempt to make something belong to a nationality when in reality ~ it doesn't need to BELONG to anyone. The whole argument seems an excuse for trivia-dropping, borderline xenophobia and elitism. Who cares?

3) I still read American comic books and watch American tv and movies. American characters bear just as much skin as their Japanese counterparts... skimpy clothing isn't part of manga culture: it's a part of sexism and gender expectations in ~both~ of our cultures. A lot of this material is being marketted to pubescent boys... and a lot of boys just happen to like boobs. If you're going to dress up like a character and choose one from media marketted at pubescent boys: you might need to show your tatas.

4) Since when is passing judgement on someone's personality and worth as a human being based on what they decide to wear acceptable? Seems to me some of us are too eager to cast proverbial stones...

(oh, and most of those huge heels and platforms are designed to simulate height... it's a symptom of a desire to be true to the character as much as it is to look sexy.)

THIS


<3

OH WARGARBLE. Guys. GUYS. I don't care what Japan has turned cosplay INTO, by foisting their own fetishes and adaptations onto the concept of dressing as a character in public. The fact STILL REMAINS that "cosplay" - the wearing of costumes at conventions - did not originate in America and Japanese concepts and standards are NOT the standards in America! Japan does it different - so let's leave it to them. There are thousands of conventions in North America, and we have our own standards which are informed by our much longer history and background of costuming, by our wider acceptance of all genres and sub-genres, and even our different laws on decency and dress codes in public.

By saying that we should just accept the Japanese sexualization of characters and cosplayers because "cosplay" is a Japanese loanword is stupid, I'm sorry. I'm going to stick to my guns on that one. Just because a lot of us use the word cosplay to refer to our costumes does not mean that we are automatically deciding that we're going to do it the way the Japanese do it. The Japanese got the idea from us, 25 years ago, and whatever they did to it in the meantime is not our fault and there's no reason we should just roll over and go with it. In North America, and many other Western countries for that matter, costumes at conventions include all genres, all styles, and everything from skimpy belly dancers to fursuits, from Slave Leia to Stormtroopers.

I really don't care if you say "it's all good" and "people should wear whatever they want" and "why should we be offended," that's fine. Just don't use an erroneous assumption on the origins of cosplay and costumes to back up your reasoning. You can have your opinion, just be smart about having it.

I think you misunderstood us. Nobody said we did it the same in America, or that we SHOULD do it the same in America. We just said that we should consider where it originated from to justify the pictures some people have found.

I really find it annoying when people don't know where things come from. I could get into more serious topics regarding this, but since it would not be considered a "smart way" of backing up my opinion, I won't. Because you know...

...knowing origin's is definitely NOT smart. [though apparently, using words like WARGARBLE is] :D

jounink
12-12-2009, 12:48 AM
I cannot deny that my Rikku nor my future Mai costume are revealing, sexy, risque or even racy. I CAN deny that they are slutty or skanky because that insinuates that the wearer (myself) is a slut and/or a skank. You know what I mean?

I think a slut or skank can only be described if you know the person and how they carry themselves which cannot be decided based upon their character choice :crylaugh: I wear hoodies and jeans every day of my life and I've been in a committed relationship with the same fella for four years...so I'm far from skanky. You can't assume someone is a slut (or use the word to describe someone) based on their costume choice...it's a costume, you know? It's not who they really are. They're out-of-character just like any other cosplayer.

I think that the reason some may decide to call certain cosplays "slutty" is because its way out of thier comfort zone. For example...someone who frequently wears ball gowns and more conservative type costumes, might freeze up at the idea of wearing or even seeing a witchblade costume.
Its true that someone should be defined by thier actions and such, but perception is a BIG part a persons initial assessment of you. Lets say If you say another Rikku cosplayer whos..uhhh..."assets" weren't secure and flying around everywhen and the overall cosplay was a bit too small or just looked quite slovenly, what would your reaction or thoughts be about her? I don't think most people who think to themselves "that costume is risque" they'd think "WTF she looks like she should be making money on a corner somewhere!"


Unless it is a minor doing this without understanding implications of making things "sexier/too sexy", it's really up to the wearer and said wearer should already know that people may not agree with their "artistic liberties" taken when making said costume.

Thats what really irks me. If your under 18 please wear some damn clothes. And for anyone that wears revealing/ skimmpy outfits (myself included) don't get all mad and pretend like your highly offended when you catch some dude, HELL or even some chick oogling you or if you get hit on...ofcourse there are exceptions, but you get the jist right?

Fong
12-12-2009, 04:52 AM
. Lets say If you say another Rikku cosplayer whos..uhhh..."assets" weren't secure and flying around everywhen and the overall cosplay was a bit too small or just looked quite slovenly, what would your reaction or thoughts be about her?

Nothing. I'd look, possibly stare, and go on my merry way...like most adults.

EDIT: Scratch that, many adults are actually pretty immature. I should say "like most adults should do."

To quote the eternal words of my second grade best friend: "mind your own beeswax." Aaaaaaand that's what I do; It keeps me from getting into any trouble and it also keeps me from raging (until one of these threads pop up that is, lol).

VendettaCode
12-12-2009, 07:36 AM
I think that the reason some may decide to call certain cosplays "slutty" is because its way out of thier comfort zone. For example...someone who frequently wears ball gowns and more conservative type costumes, might freeze up at the idea of wearing or even seeing a witchblade costume.
Its true that someone should be defined by thier actions and such, but perception is a BIG part a persons initial assessment of you. Lets say If you say another Rikku cosplayer whos..uhhh..."assets" weren't secure and flying around everywhen and the overall cosplay was a bit too small or just looked quite slovenly, what would your reaction or thoughts be about her? I don't think most people who think to themselves "that costume is risque" they'd think "WTF she looks like she should be making money on a corner somewhere!"

THIS. This is a good point.

But what you think of said Rikku cosplayer is going to depend on lots of things, like upbringing, and how generally judgemental you are. Let's face it, we all judge at sometime or another. We're human, it's in our nature. Some just do it quite a lot more than others and for different things, and that depends on personality. And that's something we can't necessarily change. There's no mold we fit into that says we'll think one thing or the other.

I think this whole thing is pretty much a moot point, because people have their opinions and values, their personality types, etc, and no one on this forums is going to change those things. It's like arguing over whether blue or red is a prettier color. And some will throw in green. And then we're all talking like we're going to change someone's mind.

udonoodle
12-18-2009, 07:49 PM
i am super biased
i think i would look at a girl showing of her legs and boobs
and say WHAT A SLUT
but...if a really hot ripped dude walked by without his shirti on...i would go ask for a hug (well maybe i would just watch for a little while)
and then whisper to my friend WHAT A HUNK
i guess its up the individual

Vexation
12-18-2009, 07:59 PM
I'm a stickler for accuracy. If it's not supposed to be "sexy" or "risque" and a person makes it so, I might roll my eyes at them, but I'm not gonna let it ruin my con or anything.

Meanwhile if someone cosplays, lets say, Kuja Tribal from FFIX, more power to 'em. I wish I had that much confidence.

emROARS
12-19-2009, 04:21 AM
I'd like the cosplay to be accurate. If they purposely make a conservitive outfit revealing or sexy which does not make said outfit accurate to the fandom then of course I would make a judegment (in my mind, I won't exactly go up to them = lol).

However if the revealing costume is part of the fandom, all the more power to them!

=]

RobotPenguin
12-19-2009, 06:10 AM
It depends on the person's intention.
lest we forget, the purpose of cosplay, we all know, is to make a skillful recreation of your favorite character. if that character happens to have very little on, oh well. it's the skill and craftsmanship i'm looking at. femme fatals are characters just like heroines and villians. let's not begrudge them that. a meticulously-made swimsuit-version Shirley can be just as impressive as a Saber in all her armor-plated splendor (or an accurate hard-gay XD).
if it's obvious that the person is just glued cotton balls on her boobs to get attention, it won't impress. (and i know we've all seen that) it might get attention, but it's not the costume they're looking at. and that's just not cosplay.

the same is true for overweight cosplaters; your shape shouldn't matter. if you wanna cosplay that character, go for it.
beginners, if you're still sewing with staples, well ya gotta start somewhere. don't let anyone stop you XD

everything else has been said

in short, keep cosplay open, free, and tollerant

FLIPINOMAD
12-19-2009, 01:24 PM
I think it really should be a case by case basis,

Some of the Risque and Sexy Cosplays out there are accurate to the character and you really cannot fault them there if they wish to be as accurate as they can be. Its really up to the cosplayer, sometimes they even tone down the Risque level a bit because of their preference or to make their parents less worried atleast.

If someone is being Sexy on purpose and deliberatly trying to grab everyone's attention by doing certain things like really really Sexy/Risque poses or showing off alot of skin (again depends on accuracy) then yeh my opinion for them will be in the "ATTENTION Whore" area a bit but if thats what they want to do we should let them as long as they are following the rules of hte Con and having fun.

Kazephyr
12-19-2009, 07:12 PM
Well, I'm not going to have my day ruined if I see "somehow-skimpier!" Yoko... I'm just not going to ask for a picture. I'm going to walk by and continue with my con experience. Or internet experience. Whichever applies. People will be people, and I can't make them all live within my standards.

Also, I'm a Christian, but I'm not a prude. I'm dressing as Fran from FFXII, if that gives you an idea. XD Different people, different views on morals. I believe that acting promiscuous is wrong, rather than dressing in a revealing way.

fujyoshi
12-21-2009, 12:08 PM
meh some people are attention whores. Ever seen a person pull of 10 cosplays in one weekend? Well thats also annoying too for me atleast.

Vexation
12-23-2009, 12:29 PM
I don't see how wearing more cosplay in a weekend is attention whoring, myself, as I am one to do that if I find the time. This, however, is possibly offensive to some people. If I might ask, why do people that have the ability, time, and skill to have ten costumes at one convention irks you? Sorry if this is a little bit OT. I'm curious. ^^

VendettaCode
12-23-2009, 03:46 PM
I wouldn't do TEN but I have changed into another cosplay in the middle of the day. XD

I think that if it were several very popular characters with lots of fangirls/boys, I might see it is attention whoring. But it depends, I guess.