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Michela
09-07-2003, 06:07 PM
Does anybody else believe banning J-rock from the Anime Boston masquerade is completely unjust? As the convention staff is allowing games to be included, (which are as related to anime as J-rock) the issue is not understandable to me. For example, the character design and fashion of Squall from Final Fantasy VIII is quite obviously based on Gackt from Malice Mizer. Anime is also widely influenced by Jrock, especially the darker and more elegant series like Angel Sanctuary (many of the character designs from that series branch from the J-rocker Hyde.) J-rock is directly connected to anime, manga, and games, so I do believe banning it from the masquerade is quite unfair (because I have a feeling that something like Harry Potter will make its way in to the masquerade, regardless of whether or not it's connected to anime at all. :untrust: ) Does anyone else agree, or am I the lone J-rock hermit of this board?

shiroi_yukiko
09-07-2003, 09:19 PM
I do agree, being a jrock cosplayer myself. This topic has been beat into the ground and it's not going to change anything this coming year unfortunately. Maybe in the future, things will look up though. ^^

Kurthy133
09-08-2003, 01:43 AM
that's terrible and i don't think it's fair :( i didnt look at the rules that closely! i think j-rock is all a part of cons! *big fan* squall is based on gackt, and that shows just how powerful j-rock is to the asian culture. i know that an anime convention is supposed to be about anime - but aren't we celebrating the asian culture in a way too?

Koumori
09-08-2003, 09:15 AM
If you read the forums on the AB board, you'll see that the masquerade coordinator agrees with you. You'll also see that this decision isn't going to be changed for this year's con. There will be a separate j-rock masquerade. This topic has been beaten to death.

Michela
09-08-2003, 06:38 PM
Yes yes, I know the topic was huge at the Anime Boston forums, but that doesn't mean it still can't be discussed, especially in different areas. I brought the subject here because, though I *thought* there was to be a J-rock masquerade at Anime Boston 2004, after investigating, I basically realized that is not going to happen, (I was also informed of this from somebody who is working at Anime Boston 2004, though he can't do anything to improve the situation) and yet J-rock is still not permitted in the regular masquerade... (This will make me greatly upset if I see a western media icon enter into the event with permission...)
Kurthy133: It certainly *is* a celebration of Japanese culture, so I don't see why the AB staff doesn't embrace it as with anime, manga, and games.

AmetenshiK
09-09-2003, 04:25 PM
Mmm, I agree ^_^; My friend, known here as Kuroe, first brought this up on the anime boston forums a week or two after anime boston about the lack of j-rock cosplaying and lack of respect for j-rock cosplayers, and now there's even less of it. It's not like there were even many j-rock cosplayers in the masquerade, anyways, I think anime boston should just suck it up and let the four to five (If there ARE that many planning on entering) just be in the masquerade, it's not that big of a deal and people enjoy seeing it anyways, and yes, It is quite obvious Squall=Gackt...I mean, just LOOK at what Gackt is wearing in the video for Illuminati, if disturbing things don't disturbe you ^_^; I love that video <3

Michela
09-10-2003, 03:22 PM
AmetenshiK: *_* I'm so glad you agree! Even though I wasn't big a fan of J-rock until a week or so after the last Anime Boston, the J-rock performers were some of my favorite of the masquerade (the Gackt cosplayer's wings were fabulous and the Dir en Grey singer was AWESOME.)
You're absolutely right... it's not as if J-rockers were mobbing and taking time out of the other performances... they *should* just suck it up and let the few groups enter if they wish... isn't inclusion what anime conventions are about?
The Illuminati video rocks ^_^ (It took me a while to get used to it, but I now like it.) Methinks the costume for Squall was influenced by one of Gackt's stage outfits (the only real difference is Gackt's pants were shinier and he didn't wear a shirt underneath his half-coat :::drools::: ) Their hair is disturbingly similar as well. If there's so much J-rock influence on anime and games, why would anyone in their right minds ban it from a major event?

AmetenshiK
09-10-2003, 05:57 PM
Hehe ^_^; Everyone should agree with me, I'm the all knowing Ametenshi >D Hee, not really >/ Oh well. Anyways, yep, the Gackt and Mana cosplayers WERE awesome, and the DEG Kyo singer was really great, she was actually my friend Kuroe I mentioned before >> ; Anyways, yep, they should suck it up >> Meanies.

Michela
09-13-2003, 09:30 PM
<b>Hehe ^_^; Everyone should agree with me, I'm the all knowing Ametenshi</b>

Of course! XD

<b>Anyways, yep, they should suck it up >> Meanies.</b>

I didn't even think the organizers could become meaner than they were last year, (they FORGOT to play my MUSIC >.<) but I was wrong o.O I'm even *more* upset now that I've discovered skits must remain under two minutes! Though I understand a large volume of people enter the competition, that is INSANE. Even my Shoujocon skit, which was very brief, was not under two minutes long... Quite honestly, the best masquerade routines I've ever seen have ranged from at least two-and-a-half to four minutes, so it completely escapes me how any memorable skits can come from a two minute limit. (I don't know if I'm even going to be in the masquerade now, simply because my ideas aren't in the Anime Boston rule structure... I actually plan to be in the masquerade practically every time I go to a con, too, so when I even *consider* not going, there is a problem.)
I really hope I can contact the director about this, but I have the feeling (learning from experience from last year's AB masquerade) that person won't even give me the time of day...

hikura
09-13-2003, 09:54 PM
I am not discouraging you from going as a j-rock or pop cosplayer.Be in fact i encourage it.What i am saying that the animeboston is not a small con by anymeans.It is not shoujocon style convention.If you let every entrance do a 5 minute skit it adds up to(weather they do it or not).Your talking about let us say 60 maxium entrance and lets say they do an average of a 3 minute skit..that is a three hour show.That is why they are trying to limit it.Shoujocon and similiar smaller cons can let the contestants with up to a 5 minute skit.
I personally believe they should allow such people as the j-pop crowd in.

Koumori
09-13-2003, 09:56 PM
I respectfully disagree - I think with a few rare exceptions, a skit can say all it needs to say in less than two minutes. As an audience member, nothing turns me off faster than watching a skit drag on for twice as long as it needed to to make its point.

Michela
09-14-2003, 03:58 PM
:::Nod::: That's very understandable. I was just upset because I was prepared for the same three minute limit as last year and let myself get a bit carried away ^_^

AmetenshiK
09-21-2003, 07:52 PM
Hm...I don't know if I'm doing a skit now since they banned J-Rock, and I dont really have one to do by myself, I'm not letting my friend Kelley come with me this year, she actually expects me to do the following (and she says she REALLY wants to go...)..Pay for her pre-reg, let her stay in my hotel room without splitting the cost with her, buy all of the materials and sew all of her costumes....UGH! She is SO not coming...The only reason she went for free last year is because my other friend's mom does not like me. >X And I called her the night before to go and she just used my kimono...anyways, off topic. We were supposed to do a little skit, but we're not anymore since she isnt going. >/ Oh well.

Anyways, Michela, I liked your skit last year at AB >D It was great. You guys seemed so confused on the stage ^_^ I loved it! >D I have a nice picture of ya somewhere in my pile of them >/ I shall one day scan and upload all of my anime boston pictures to cosplay.com. ^^;

Michela
09-22-2003, 06:20 PM
...Pay for her pre-reg, let her stay in my hotel room without splitting the cost with her, buy all of the materials and sew all of her costumes....UGH! She is SO not coming

Eww... buying supplies is SO expensive, ESPECIALLY with the cost of hotels and registration! She really should learn to fund herself... even I do, and I can't find a job, wherever I apply (I'm living on allowance.. I'm a welfare cosplayer. ;_; Even then, I do save practically every cent on my costumes, so I may make them well and with the respect they deserve.)

We were supposed to do a little skit, but we're not anymore since she isnt going. >/ Oh well.

My friend Mike (you may recognize him as Setsuna) and I (as well as his BAAF group) were planning an elaborate, coreographed Malice Mizer production, but now we can't do it because J-rock was banned... I was so sad to hear that, as we had already made plans...

Anyways, Michela, I liked your skit last year at AB >D It was great. You guys seemed so confused on the stage ^_^

Yeah... we looked confused because they forgot our MUSIC. We were wondering whether to go on or scream at the con chair while on stage (in the end, we decided to keep our composure... for the most part, until the audience laughed at us... yeah... that was NOT fun.)

Claire
09-23-2003, 08:23 PM
I don't know the official word on WHY it was banned, but it may be something similar to why it's not allowed at Anime Expo: the sponsors do not want their prizes to be able to go to people who aren't cosplaying something they can market, and they don't want potential marketable winners to not preform because their space was taken up by jrock cosplayers.

If that's the case, then you'll just have to deal with it. *shrug* Larger cons tend to be very corporate. I think the only big con that still allows jrock in the main masquerade is Otakon, right? Or did they stop allowing it? Maybe someday, jrock will be popular and mainstream enough to warrant involvement in big masquerades. Until then, we'll have to be satisfied with hall cosplay. OR you could start attending cons that have seperate events (like Anime Expo and A-kon), or smaller cons that don't mind jrock entrants (Fanime and Ani-magic).

Kaede
09-23-2003, 11:14 PM
Well jrock is very mainstream, and mass swarms of people have been cosplaying them for years. AB wants specifically anime/manga/game entries as they said in the forums (no exceptions because music influenced the series, which is reasonable to say if you're going to ban the whole thing). I think jrock and jpop entries will find a better audience amongst people who know the people they're cosplaying and will catch on to the skits. That's good with me.

Claire
09-23-2003, 11:45 PM
Jrock is NOT mainstream. None of it is being released on an American label outside of L'arc~en~ciel, it's not being shown in American TV (that's not even possible considering the inescapable language barier), and WAY less than half of every con population likes it, much less even knows what it is. Heck, there is only ONE dealer that sells exclusive jrock merchandise, and they don't even GO to every con in the US! Most con goers think of it as "those weird guys who look like chicks and play bad 80s rock", and a LOT of anime fans would rather not see jrock even cosplayed in the halls.

The problem with most masquerades is that they are not about entertaining the audience - they are about competition. With competition, you get prizes, and most prizes come from sponsors, who not only give out prizes, but give the con money to promote said sponsor. Sponsors do NOT want their money spent on something they cannot market. Companies that release anime here LOVE it when great cosplay skits get big awards - IE, the Vampire Hunder D: Bloodlust group that won at Anime Expo in '02. The company that releases the DVD pimped them from here to Tuesday. Other companies look at that and think "What if a group like that for a series WE'RE publishing didn't get into a masquerade because there wasn't enough room because they're letting things like JROCK in? GASP! We must demand that there is nothing standing between the cosplayers and our greedy hands!" And they tell the cons that they'll pull funding if they allow jrock entrants. The cons go "Alrighty then, NO MORE JROCK! And just to be PC, NO MORE JPOP!"

Is it fair? No. Cons should be by the fans, for the fans - but unfortunately, not all fans have thousands of dollars just lying around to fund one, so they are at the mercy of the sponsors. It's just how things are.

Michela
09-24-2003, 05:06 PM
the sponsors do not want their prizes to be able to go to people who aren't cosplaying something they can market, and they don't want potential marketable winners to not preform because their space was taken up by jrock cosplayers.

That's kind of gross... correction: that's disgusting. I usually find that a good masquerade skit promotes the sales of a series, game, or J-rock group, no matter how unknown it is... I dislike when an event is modeled solely around sales rather than expression, but 'tis true that I just have to deal with it; we *do* live in a capitalist society. Thanks for the information, though... I had hardly even thought of that before.

Claire
09-24-2003, 05:13 PM
I don't think it's disgusting - even WITHOUT sponsor intervention, it is totally in the rights of the con staff to do. They are ANIME cons as well, so they reserve the right to ban ANYTHING non-anime. I've heard rumors of some bigger cons getting ready to ban video game entries as well, since people seem to have a tendancy to cosplay from really obscure ones. And that's fine, because they are ANIME cons, and a masquerade is part of the con. Any extra events, panels, ect, are there as a favor to a SMALL portion of the atendees. Jrock cosplayers should be really gratefull for the panels and extra events they get at most cons, because it's entirely reasonable for cons to put and end to anything outside of hall cosplay.

I, personally, don't have a problem with that. Most of my costumes are visual kei, and I've been a big jrock fan for many years. I just understand that anime cons are for anime, and while it doesn't matter what you wear for hall cosplay, you have to stick to the con's subject for any official con events.

Kaede
09-24-2003, 07:22 PM
^^; I meant in the cosplay community...not music. It's not rare anymore to go to even a small local con and see one or two visual cosplays

Claire
09-24-2003, 08:44 PM
That's still just one or two out of hundreds. I mean, there's more non-Japan-related costumes than jrock on a regular basis (Star Wars, Harry Potter, Invader ZIM, X-men, ect). If you don't know what you're looking for, you wouldn't notice it at all.

Kitten
10-21-2003, 11:28 PM
This is a good point... I mean, my friends went with me to Otakon last year, and they had NO idea who the weird people with the blue hair were supposed to be. They seemed so utterly confused... I didn't have the heart to tell them that the "character" in question was Mana (love him dearly, of course :heart:) or who exactly he is. :thumbsup: I'm sure there are a lot of J-Rock cosplayers I missed as well, since the outfits are so specific and of (usually) one genre; they're also not worn much more than once by the singers themselves. It's rather confusing...

...However, I've talked to people who cosplay as j-rockers, and I know they put EXTREME amounts of work into just about every last aspect of their costume, and it sort of irks me that they can't get recognition for their hours of labor on stage.

Grr. It's so irritating when you can see more than one side of an argument... :sulk:

Michela
10-22-2003, 07:00 PM
>>Grr. It's so irritating when you can see more than one side of an argument...

It may be irritating, but it tends to make an argument much more insightful ^_~ 'Tis true that Jrock costumes (many of them, at least) are very elaborate and takes a great deal of work, (even the *makeup* is a difficult task!) So obviously not every Jrock fan who cosplays will make a Jrock-related costume. At the very least, there *are* a few fans who truly appreciate Jrock costumes (especially those who have toiled over the rich details in the costumes they have made as well!)
My main opinion is, though the volume of Jrock fans is relatively small compared to those who enjoy anime as a whole, but I think it's worth it to be included in convention events and such.

Kasai
10-22-2003, 09:00 PM
I think I have mixed feelings about AnimeBoston's decision. On one hand, it does sort of make sense that they'd allow game cosplays but not J-Rock ones. For example, if someone was to mention Kingdom Hearts, most people would at least understand the reference, even if they had not played the game. But, if a Malice Mizer or Dir En Grey or Duel Jewel cosplay group went up on stage, they might not be as widely recognized. Sure, there will be the few people in the audience who appreciate it, but overall, most people wouldn't get it. Which is sad. But I'm sure that as most of you know, there's little worse than watching a masquerade chock-full of skits you don't get.

On the other hand, they're going to have a seperate masquerade or something similar for J-Rock, right? It's not quite the same, and it would have been better if it remained part of the regular masquerade, but it wasn't the fans' decision to make in this case. =(

I guess we'll have to see what happens when AB rolls around, won't we? ^^

MoonLitDemon
11-10-2003, 02:39 PM
hey everyone.. ok i have to say that i haven't really got into j-rock YET (planning on asking my friend if i can borrow a cd or w/e but its going to take alot of begging lol) but i have seen and know of some bands because of my friends and i just have to say that the outfits and such for these are just amazing and awesome i love seeing everyone dressed up as them and i agree with the first post, they do have alot to do with anime.... also one of my friends usually dresses as Mana (i think lol) and she goes into the contests and she loves it and the costumes she makes are just amazing i always look forword to seeing her dressed up, i never got to see her in a masquerade or anything yet and i was hoping to this year at anime boston..... so yah i really think they shouldn't banned it or they are going to have alot of ppl mad at them... i'm already mad at them for always having anime boston on easter weekend!! >:-O ....... *sigh* ok well i'm done now byes!