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Ninja Sensei
09-15-2003, 03:42 PM
From the Post-Worldcon reactions thread:

Kisa: *^^* believe it or not, that was my first real fanservice-y costume so I was kind of playing it up :D. Afterwards My friend was mentioning the idea of fanservice is something that isn't seen all that often at Sci-Fi conventions. I was going to wear my Lafiel costume, but I hadn't had a chance to wear the red costume so I thought I would :)

Need 45% more sparkles next time ;)

Okay ... time to once again show my ignorance.

Would somebody explain exactly what you're talking about when you talk about "fan service"? particularly with respect to costumes?

I thought I had it down, but your remark sort of knocked that train off the track, Lafiel. ;)

Mage
09-15-2003, 04:26 PM
Fanservice.

Lets see. Err...I'm not good with coming up with dictionary definitions, so how about some examples? lol.

Fanservice in anime would be a lot of upskirt shots and cleavage shots...semi-nudity...that sort of thing. Cheesecake shots, they're sometimes called.

Fanservice with costumes usually just means a lot of skin or just costumes that seem geared towards being noticed in some sort of a sexual fashion. Usually it's females attracting the attention of males by wearing something provocative. Mai Shiranui, Morrigan and Felicia are probably the most often cosplayed fanservice costumes. :P

LeBlanc is as fanservice-y as I'm ever going to get. I do mean ever. That was way too much. >_<;

Then there's fanservice directed at females which usually involves tight pants and general shirtlessness. XD

Lafiel
09-15-2003, 07:29 PM
Its weird when you think about it, almost half the costumes that are considerd fanservice-y are no worse then a lot of stuff I see on the street... or Bikinis. But I would never call the stuff on the street Fanservice. Strange how that works out.

I had my pair of Stunt panties on with my costume. Always wear those with any costume that might even remotly show my underwear. I had so many pairs of panties on, and nylons that it looks like I'm wear a diaper in the couple pictures my friend took :D

Back to Disgaea :)

Kisa
09-15-2003, 08:46 PM
Well, I would broaden the catogory to ANY costume/behaviour that caters to the fan's appitites, usually sexual. Getting a cute girl to show her panties, or a pretty boy molesting another pretty boy...

I agree that I've seen worse on people in real life, butI think it's partially the attitude that goes with it. Lafiel was teasing the photographers and they loved every moment of it. But in the same way, it wasn't *annoying* because while definitivly for attention, she wanted the attention and knew what she was doing.
You see some people who get their feather's all ruffled who don't expect it, or it gets out of hand because they don't know how to control their audience... or the audience doesn't know enough to stop because they've crossed the line to make someone uncomfortable. ect.ect.ect.
But, I'm rambling now...

Kia
09-15-2003, 08:53 PM
Gordie, when we were at Dawn's house on saturday I told you the story about Anime North last year and the group of us outside the fanservice room at 3am. Though at 3am the kind of fanservice they were playing was porn, no ifs, ands, or buts about it (I know this b/c someone went into the room and told me :P)
There's the simple panty shot fanservice and then there hentai.... false advertising my friends... false advertising, especially if someone is calling out "Hand Check!" ^_^

Lafiel
09-15-2003, 08:54 PM
Kisa: I think you have a real good point. People dress as Mai or some other scantly dressed character, but then they get upset when they get oogled.

I have to admit as my first 'revealing' character I was playing it up a bit and having fun, but your right didn't go over my comfortable line.

Kaijugal
09-16-2003, 01:12 AM
Gordie, when we were at Dawn's house on saturday I told you the story about Anime North last year and the group of us outside the fanservice room at 3am. Though at 3am the kind of fanservice they were playing was porn, no ifs, ands, or buts about it (I know this b/c someone went into the room and told me :P)
There's the simple panty shot fanservice and then there hentai.... false advertising my friends... false advertising, especially if someone is calling out "Hand Check!" ^_^

Yes I'm sure we said some things about it. I remember telling you that I was dissapointed to find out that the Fanservice Room wasn't a room where Men massage my neck and shoulders and serve me hot tea. ;) *sighs*

Chosuke
09-16-2003, 07:15 AM
Dan is fanservice xD

Kia
09-16-2003, 07:52 AM
Yes I'm sure we said some things about it. I remember telling you that I was dissapointed to find out that the Fanservice Room wasn't a room where Men massage my neck and shoulders and serve me hot tea. ;) *sighs*
LOL Dawn!!! I would love that too....but sadly instead of focusing their attentions towards us all the men in the fanservice room get checked to make sure they arn't servicing themselves.... so to speak. ^_^
... I wonder if they check the women?

Ninja Sensei
09-16-2003, 08:14 AM
Gordie, when we were at Dawn's house on saturday I told you the story about Anime North last year and the group of us outside the fanservice room at 3am.

I thought Kia, Chobrat and I explained this to you on Saturday Night ??

To some extent you did.

But then I saw Lafiel's comment about how SF cons don't hae a lot of fan service around ... which, to my mind, contradicted what you guys told me.

After all, Kisa is right and Sarcasm-hime is correct in that there USED TO BE a ton of it around ... maybe more per capita than we currently have in the anime crowd (believe it or not).

I think one of the reasons you don't see so much of it anymore is the changing of social mores ...

You see, people who were into this ALWAYS have had the same problems ...

... particularly about some people going over the line.

But in "the old days" it used to be much better and not so overtly sexual. For instance, cons used to have backrub panels. This was a panel, usually on the Sunday morning of the con, where the entire room would be sitting in a circle massaging each other's neck and shoulders. They even had registered massage therapists conducting it a lot of the time (and some who went to the panels became registered MTs later). There was nothing sexual about ... well, unless there was a spark there to begin with (or was carried over from Saturday night).

I don't think you could do that today. There would probably be one person who's main thought would be "WOO-HOO! I get to touch a girl!!!" ... And they'd probably be sitting beside the on eperson who was scantily clad but didn't know how to handle the ogling! :)

You know, I hear so much talk about "fan service" and such ... and I have been accused of having a fairly libidinous sense of humour ... but the reaction that I see more often than not is "Don't look at me that way!" or "Don't talk to me that way or make those comments!" I don't get it ... is there a double standard?

As many of you know, I ended up being branded the con pervert a few years ago because of somebody's poor handling of their reaction to this type of thing.

Is it any wonder why we don't see "fan service" at an SF con anymore?

Ninja Sensei
09-16-2003, 08:16 AM
PS. And if you don't think that it exists anymore at SF Cons ... then you're not looking very hard! Ad Astra even has one of their charity event as what might be termed "fan service" ... with cheesecake!

And then we get on the topic of some of the cons in the mid-west!!! HOOO Baby!!! ;)

Kaijugal
09-16-2003, 12:56 PM
Dan is fanservice xD


:rofl: Poor Dan!!

:)

Jinto
09-16-2003, 01:14 PM
PS. And if you don't think that it exists anymore at SF Cons ... then you're not looking very hard! Ad Astra even has one of their charity event as what might be termed "fan service" ... with cheesecake!

And then we get on the topic of some of the cons in the mid-west!!! HOOO Baby!!! ;)
They're still doing the charity cheesecake thing at Ad Astra? Wow! A couple of my friends started that, years ago. I think I still have the photos somewhere, which is a good thing, since two of them have had kids. :p

Kisa
09-16-2003, 01:20 PM
THe problem with Dan is he brings it on himself. I'm sure he LIKES the attention ;) He just has to stop thrusting his pleasantly smelling chest at people... >.>

On a serious note,I don't agree with the idea that people--especially girls--should have to deal with overwhealming and unwanted attention if they're scantily clad. It isn't right to make one person feel uncomfortable because of how they're dressed. And it shoudn't be acceptable to say "well, you're dressed like <i>that</i> so you should expect it.

On the same token, if you do dress scantily, you really should expect that people are going to notice and you should probably expect that people are going to give you attention you may not want. It's an unfair hazard of a skimpy costume, but lets face it, this is still People we're dealing with and People can be Jerks.

Unfortunately, when dealing with the age-range... most of AN's crowd is Young. And getting Younger! Anywhere between 12 and 24-25 based on the people I know... And I know a lot of the younger kids don't even realize what they're doing, but then really uncomfortable when things do become sexualized. the 23-25 year olds have been there, done that and moved on and don't care or find it funny, and I think it just might be a maturity thing. As you get older you get used to, and more comfortable with your body. During the Summer, Erica and/or I would sew in just shorts and a Bra, or pull off a t-shirt to try something on in the living room, despite the fact that we have male-friends who we live with/sew for. It was just easier then running to the bedroom changing, and then coming out to look in the mirror and then going back and changing... ect. I mean, heck, even in Hotel Rooms at AN, we'd run around in just a Tensor Bandage and go get Ice or Pop or something... It isn't an Issue. But for some people it would be.
I just don't know if it's fair to expect everyone to have that level of comfort or if more needs to be done, and in what direction...

I just know that I refuse to subject myself to Mass Fanboyage by wearing skimpy clothes. Heck, it annoys me when OTHER girls get it, because it's stopped being baout the costume. Instead of meaning "wow, look at that outfit!" it really means "Wow, Look!! teeehheeeee she's not wearing a bra!!" and THAT annoys me, because you see a lot of hard work that gets ignored, and as a costume maker, that's SO Frustrating and kind of insulting to see hard work and effort ignored, in favour of the pair of breasts or legs modelling the costume.

I had more to say, but cosplay.com keeps eating my posts. So I'll leave it there ^-^ I was getting off topic anyway

Ninja Sensei
09-16-2003, 03:06 PM
On a serious note,I don't agree with the idea that people--especially girls--should have to deal with overwhealming and unwanted attention if they're scantily clad. It isn't right to make one person feel uncomfortable because of how they're dressed. And it shoudn't be acceptable to say "well, you're dressed like <i>that</i> so you should expect it.

And no one is seriously saying that they should. In fact, just about all the guys I know are afirly protective of the girls in the crowd.

On the same token, if you do dress scantily, you really should expect that people are going to notice and you should probably expect that people are going to give you attention you may not want. It's an unfair hazard of a skimpy costume, but lets face it, this is still People we're dealing with and People can be Jerks.

Sad, but true. And I think this is why you don't see it so much at SF cons ... especially as much as you do at anime events!! People have just figured that, as a few have ruined the reputation of many, that it's just not worth all the hassle anymore.

People (on both sides of the equation) should just realise that it doesn't require panting and drooling, nor that that is th ereaction that should be encouraged.

It's sort of like a "fandom hug" ... People figured that because fandom was such a "friendly" place that you could hug anyone regardless of whether you knew them or not. ... Times have changed.

A lot of this has to do with a tightening up of social morals as well ... a cavalier attitude towards sex, lack of respect for people's (particularly women's) feelings, and a free and easy sexuality are all things that tend to be less publicly acceptable.

No means no.

Which sort of brings us to ...

Unfortunately, when dealing with the age-range... most of AN's crowd is Young. And getting Younger! Anywhere between 12 and 24-25 based on the people I know... And I know a lot of the younger kids don't even realize what they're doing, but then really uncomfortable when things do become sexualized. the 23-25 year olds have been there, done that and moved on and don't care or find it funny, and I think it just might be a maturity thing. As you get older you get used to, and more comfortable with your body.
...
I just don't know if it's fair to expect everyone to have that level of comfort or if more needs to be done, and in what direction...

I agree ... But I don't think that the younger people should be left in the dark either. The fen community, particularly the older women like you and Erica, should take the younger ones under their wing and educate them on the situation. Including possible misinterpretation and such. Ignorance in this area could lead to some very dire consequences as there is a small element (particularly among the male portion) who have no moral and social conscience when it comes to putting women under undue and unwanted advances.

I just know that I refuse to subject myself to Mass Fanboyage by wearing skimpy clothes. Heck, it annoys me when OTHER girls get it, because it's stopped being baout the costume. Instead of meaning "wow, look at that outfit!" it really means "Wow, Look!! teeehheeeee she's not wearing a bra!!" and THAT annoys me, because you see a lot of hard work that gets ignored, and as a costume maker, that's SO Frustrating and kind of insulting to see hard work and effort ignored, in favour of the pair of breasts or legs modelling the costume.

You know, I never actually looked at it from that point of view (not being a woman, nor a big time costumer) ... but I think you're very right!

I had more to say, but cosplay.com keeps eating my posts. So I'll leave it there ^-^ I was getting off topic anyway

I don't think you were getting off topic at all! Someone was mentioning a thread that talked about the trend towards "skanky" in costumes on younger girls. I think that my question is along the same lines.

And your answer was very succint and solid in expressing your point and in the examples you used.

I just wish that more people talked about this and let the younger girls know what they could be in for ... and educating them on how to handle it.

If someone like me can get confused about it, then some young fella full of hormones with no moral compass could REALLY cause problems.

(Me? I'm well past it ... After all, I'm almost twice the age of all you sweet young things. ;) )

I'm enjoying reviewing this discussion ... Anyone else have any thoughts?

Ninja Sensei
09-16-2003, 03:08 PM
They're still doing the charity cheesecake thing at Ad Astra? Wow! A couple of my friends started that, years ago. I think I still have the photos somewhere, which is a good thing, since two of them have had kids. :p

Yes indeed!

I didn't realise that you'd been around that long. ( I still have a pic of when Murray fed ME cheesecake! LOL!!!)

Minakolabelle
09-16-2003, 04:12 PM
I think it's sad that the younger fans wear the smaller costumes. I made a point of not touching any thing that is "skanky" un till I hit 18; when I knew that I could deal with the attention that I get. The younger girls do need to be taught that you will get just as much attnetion in a beautifully recreated detailed costume then the tiniest thing possible. But then you have to deal with the fans that only will give you attention if the costume is small and popular right now. My Paine costume got more attention then my Chii or Mana and I spent 3 times more time on them >_<

I've done my fanservicy costumes and now I'm moving on to doing my fav j rockers, even though Toshiya likes to wear lots of shear things >_< I am finding a way around exposing every thing I've got. And well my masq costume for AN will make every one go O_o that is Minako?

I don't think i've seen it addressed in here, but there is "yaoi/yuriing to fan girls/boys" I know that can get way out of hand. Personally knowing HeeChan I know how far it can go >_< I mean making kissy faces is fine but, having a full on make out sesson in front of people or a full on clothed "orgy" is way out of control. It doesn't help that the fans watching cheer them on either -_-;;

xiola
09-16-2003, 05:07 PM
minako: eeeek yeah, that's like, a whole new topic practically... Fake Lesbian Fanservice... -_-;;; i mean, for poses or photos or skits or something it's fine, because hell i'll fully admit i appreciate when guys to it with otherguys but when it's like "yeah, i'm not attracted to women at all but i'll make out with one gratuitously in front of a bunch of MEN, because i like THEM" it's just kind of demeaning... i mean, i have gay friends who hate that sort of thing more than i do, it's not just me. it's just fucking... cheap. i dunno ^^;;

... ok, i had something else to say but i just ended up getting suckered into a 20 MINUTE PHONE SURVEY ABOUT TOOTHPASTE AND BODYWASH (and see i'm lame and *feel bad* for telemarketers because it's such a crappy job, and i'm like "well i'm not having any fun, but they don't have any fun ALL DAY so i may as well just put up with it so their boss doesn't get mad..." -_-;;) so now i'm just annoyed and don't have time to bother finishing this post. -_-;;

ugh. *goes back to doing homework*

Kaijugal
09-16-2003, 05:09 PM
I consider it a service to fandom when I don't tromp around scantily dressed. :D *laughs*

Oh ? Did I mention that I solved the problem of geting my costumes to the shows, and where I'm going to stay all in one gigantic swoop?

http://images.cosplay.com/data/500/7016CDCFattrailer.jpg

Sarcasm-hime
09-16-2003, 07:33 PM
*glares* Dawn, I've warned you about crap like that. Time for a spanking...

Ninja Sensei
09-16-2003, 07:34 PM
I think it's sad that the younger fans wear the smaller costumes. I made a point of not touching any thing that is "skanky" un till I hit 18; when I knew that I could deal with the attention that I get. The younger girls do need to be taught that you will get just as much attnetion in a beautifully recreated detailed costume then the tiniest thing possible. But then you have to deal with the fans that only will give you attention if the costume is small and popular right now. My Paine costume got more attention then my Chii or Mana and I spent 3 times more time on them >_<

I've done my fanservicy costumes and now I'm moving on to doing my fav j rockers, even though Toshiya likes to wear lots of shear things >_< I am finding a way around exposing every thing I've got. And well my masq costume for AN will make every one go O_o that is Minako?

If it's hotter than the J-Rocker outfit you wore at CNA .. oooh mama! (But then you were supposed to be a guy, right? Sheesh! Talk about confusing the H**L out of me!)

Seriously ... I agree with your point about educating the younger cosplayers as to teh attention they will receive (good & bad) for different costuming aspects. I wish you luck! :)

I don't think i've seen it addressed in here, but there is "yaoi/yuriing to fan girls/boys" I know that can get way out of hand. Personally knowing HeeChan I know how far it can go >_< I mean making kissy faces is fine but, having a full on make out sesson in front of people or a full on clothed "orgy" is way out of control. It doesn't help that the fans watching cheer them on either -_-;;

So ... when you (as the J-Rocker GUY) came up a stole a kiss from me ... that was just yaoi? (dang! ... I thought you liked older men! ;) )

Ninja Sensei
09-16-2003, 07:36 PM
*glares* Dawn, I've warned you about crap like that. Time for a spanking...

You and me both, S-H!!!

I think she thinks she's being funny ... :hafha:

I'll hold her down and you spank her!

Chosuke
09-16-2003, 07:47 PM
Disturbing.

I'll grab the digicam!

Minakolabelle
09-16-2003, 09:43 PM
If it's hotter than the J-Rocker outfit you wore at CNA .. oooh mama! (But then you were supposed to be a guy, right? Sheesh! Talk about confusing the H**L out of me!)


Yes that was one of Toshiya's more risky costumes for girls to do. But it's my fave costume that he wore so I did it tastfully. I'm still surprised that I could walk in them shoes for that long. bottom line though, I was a guy in that costume >_>;


Seriously ... I agree with your point about educating the younger cosplayers as to teh attention they will receive (good & bad) for different costuming aspects. I wish you luck! :)



I think we have a new idea for a pannel, "Fanservice crimes and how to not commit them."


So ... when you (as the J-Rocker GUY) came up a stole a kiss from me ... that was just yaoi? (dang! ... I thought you liked older men! ;) )

It's only yaoi if you want it to be ;)

Keurblitz
09-16-2003, 09:46 PM
fan service = ikkitousen

Lafiel
09-17-2003, 02:46 AM
I agree with many of everyone’s points, especially about Young people wearing revealing costumes.

*Remembers a thread were a 14 year old was upset about not being able to wear Rikku's Bikini outfit, because her parents wouldn't allow it*

Often I will be looking through peoples galleries and usually the ones who have the most views is the revealing stuff. Sometimes its done distastefully and the person is so underage, that is just baffles me.
Being confident in your body is fine, and I only wish I were 'as' confident as these girls, but damn! Its a little out of hand in my opinion >.< Part of me sits there and thinks how amusing it'll be when these underage girls finish growing up... When they get their hips :P

Then I see these amazing costumes that are so elaborate that is just makes me drool, with half the views.

I think though (and maybe someone mentioned this and I missed it), that just because the costume may show skin, it shouldn't turn you off of wearing it because you will be labeled negatively.

I hope Sarcasm-hime doesn't mind me using her for an example, but her MAPS costume is damn awesome, and many people would probably considered it to be fanservicey but its an amazing costume. From what I know of her (Granted, isn't much), she does not seem like the kind of person who pick the Maps costume because it showed a lot of skin and wanted to make fanboys drool.

One reason I was a tad nervous wearing my costume at worldcon. I didn't want to be labeled as someone who was just wearing the costume, because it showed skin, and that I have no appreciation for the Character and/or design. Which I do.

In the end I figured I've done my years in the cute costumes that cover a lot, I'm entitled to one or two sexy outfits :P I'm not going to be young forever ^^ *crys as she remembers she turns 23 this year*

Basically what I'm saying is that don't be afraid to wear something sexy now and then. But don't do it for the wrong reason. Of course, after reading mostly everyone’s post I know all of you know that. :) Perhaps I'm just trying to validate me wearing something more revealing then I normally do ^^.

Oh yeah, and I think Minakolabelle has the right idea, no skanky till after 18.

Wow I hope this post makes sense,
Its late and I ramble :)

People doing really racy stuff in skits..... don't get me started on that one >.<

Eleryth
09-17-2003, 06:15 AM
Interesting! So, THIS is where the ever-huggable MC hides out!! ;)

I agree with thoughts said. I would not have contemplated a more risky costume before, but now, at 22, have decided upon at least 2...which, sadly, will not be seen for another 3 years. However, not my point. (I just pray my body holds out for another 3 years)

I think it would be a good idea to have a panel on this, or include a blurb in the guidbook at cons, or something. Or even something on webpages like this one, where we know younger cosplayers hang out. I know some younger people need to learn all the angles about dressing...scantily...but I would feel strange approaching them one on one and saying 'you know why you are getting this attention, right? were you looking for it? can I explain something to you?' as all I would get is a weird stare (or worse!).

A costume does not have to be revealing to be sexy, if that is the look they are after. It has more to do with how you hold yourself, how you behave, and the...vibe? aura? you give off. And how comfortable you are wearing what you are wearing. I have a costume in mind (2, actually) that require a lot of coverage (please dont spill if you know me and my plans!) but are guaranteed to have, well, 'fanbois'. (Gord, you're just going to have to wait a few years. Trust me, it'll be worth it :P )

Personally, I do not like the trend of clothing becoming smaller in general (normal clothing, I mean). Girls of 10 should not wear teensy tops and low riders, even if Britney Spears does (not the best role model, IMHO).

OH, and regarding Sarcasms 'fanservicey' costumes... I think (note, think) shes does them on purpose. But doing so, she knows exactly what she is getting into (and hell, has the figure for it to boot). And that's the way to cosplay fanservice - KNOW what you are getting into with that type of costume. There's nothing wrong with that.
[Sarcasm: just remembering what was on your cosplay page regarding ayumi leaf-costume before AN - yes, I lurk :skidude2: - and I believe you called it your requisite fanservice costume ]

I don't remember where I was going with this rant. I think I just felt left out of everything...and its late and I should be going home. I have been at work for 12 hours....

EDIT: that cheesecake thing sounds like fun... can TT start something like that?? Being served desserts by your favorite characters? And it be for charity? (I've just always wanted to be a waitress....pathetic, I know...)

Ninja Sensei
09-17-2003, 07:56 AM
I think we have a new idea for a pannel, "Fanservice crimes and how to not commit them."

That may not be a bad idea, actually.

I think that there'd also have to be one aimed at the boys ... "How to React Around a Fan Service Girl"

(SF con publications quite often have this type of information for the newcomer ... for example, the "fandom hugging" I mentioned earlier.)

It's only yaoi if you want it to be ;)

Well ... anything that gets me kissed by a pretty girl can't be all bad. ;)

Ninja Sensei
09-17-2003, 07:57 AM
fan service = ikkitousen

Okay ... I'll bite, whats "ikkitousen"?

Ninja Sensei
09-17-2003, 08:25 AM
Interesting! So, THIS is where the ever-huggable MC hides out!! ;)

Occasionaly ... And yes, I remember who you are Eleryth! How could I forget? (And Xiola was nice enough to draw me a chart with who was who and atheir nicknames, etc. "You can't tell the players without a program!")

I think it would be a good idea to have a panel on this, or include a blurb in the guidbook at cons, or something. Or even something on webpages like this one, where we know younger cosplayers hang out.

Excellent ideas!

I know some younger people need to learn all the angles about dressing...scantily...but I would feel strange approaching them one on one and saying 'you know why you are getting this attention, right? were you looking for it? can I explain something to you?' as all I would get is a weird stare (or worse!).

To my mind, that is something along what they might need to help them survive.

I have a question though, Why would you feel strange? After all, wouldn't you have liked somebody to do the same for you at that age?

A costume does not have to be revealing to be sexy, if that is the look they are after. It has more to do with how you hold yourself, how you behave, and the...vibe? aura? you give off. And how comfortable you are wearing what you are wearing.

Unfortunately, when you're younger the tendency is "sexy = scanty" ... with maturity comes the appreciation of more than the wrapping (or lack thereof).

Often I will be looking through peoples galleries and usually the ones who have the most views is the revealing stuff. Sometimes its done distastefully and the person is so underage, that is just baffles me.
Being confident in your body is fine, and I only wish I were 'as' confident as these girls, but damn! Its a little out of hand in my opinion >.< Part of me sits there and thinks how amusing it'll be when these underage girls finish growing up... When they get their hips :P

Then I see these amazing costumes that are so elaborate that is just makes me drool, with half the views.

It's an interesting situation, isn't it? Why do they seem to have confidence in their bodies BEFORE their body is finished in most cases?

But you are right (as I believe Kisa also said earlier) the thrust of the costume should be the costume and not the body wearing it.

(Gord, you're just going to have to wait a few years. Trust me, it'll be worth it :P )

I wait with bated breath!

One reason I was a tad nervous wearing my costume at worldcon. I didn't want to be labeled as someone who was just wearing the costume, because it showed skin, and that I have no appreciation for the Character and/or design. Which I do.

In the end I figured I've done my years in the cute costumes that cover a lot, I'm entitled to one or two sexy outfits :P I'm not going to be young forever ^^ *crys as she remembers she turns 23 this year*

LOL!!! Whereas there is not such an overt display of reaction towards "fan service" costumes in SF cons, there is much more of a strong undercurrent of appreciation. But, just as in the efmale costumer maturing and being able to handle the attention better (or at least be more prepared for it), SF crowds tend to be older and will (generally) handle the attention in a more mature manner... Yes, we do still have a few fanbois beyond their early twenties - but the majority calm down a bit with maturity.

(Maybe part of that is that some of us now have DAUGHTERS that are at "that age"?)

So ... please, don't feel you have to stop wearing sexy outfits! (Please!!!)

Personally, I do not like the trend of clothing becoming smaller in general (normal clothing, I mean). Girls of 10 should not wear teensy tops and low riders, even if Britney Spears does (not the best role model, IMHO).

This sort of speaks to my question on whether the societal norms are the cause of some of these issues. I'm sure Ms. Spears knows and expects teh reactions she gets. But does a 14-year-old girl? (And everybody is in such a hurry to grow up these days!!!)

And that's the way to cosplay fanservice - KNOW what you are getting into with that type of costume. There's nothing wrong with that.

Exactly! And I'm sure Sarcasm will agree that "fan service" is alive and well in SF fen as well after her experiences at Worldcon! ;)

Basically what I'm saying is that don't be afraid to wear something sexy now and then. But don't do it for the wrong reason. Of course, after reading mostly everyone’s post I know all of you know that. Perhaps I'm just trying to validate me wearing something more revealing then I normally do ^^.

I think that's a very good summation. But, as Minakolabelle was discussing, how do we get that message out to the younger crowd?

(And please note: I am NOT excluding the male half of this equation. It is just as important to educate the boys on proper ettiquette of handling themselves around girls who may be "fan servicey"!!!

Woh else thinks so? Or has any other ideas?)

EDIT: that cheesecake thing sounds like fun... can TT start something like that?? Being served desserts by your favorite characters? And it be for charity? (I've just always wanted to be a waitress....pathetic, I know...)

* sigh! * I don't think we'll ever see this at TT ... It's much more middle of the road in tone than Ad Astra is. Some years, after 9 or 10 PM, Ad Astra has almost taken on the aura of a "Leather & Lace" con. (Not that I mind, mind you! LOL!)

(*22*!!! *23*!!!! Gad, but I feel older! ;)

Mage
09-17-2003, 11:38 AM
You know what's really strange? This is on the topic of thread, but off the current road of discussion, but you can all gloss over this :P I feel more self-conscious about the LeBlanc costume now than I did at either CNAnime or Worldcon. Sort of an 'I can't believe I wore that'. The thing is that I didn't get any reaction at all to the fanservice component. ^_^ It was great, actually.

More people commented on my wig and the feathered tassles than anything else and even the cosplayers ("normals" failed to comment at all) who commented on my courage or whatever (I don't think "courage" is the right word to use *shrug*) mostly told me how it showed off how well constructed the costume was. So I had an all-together fantastic experience even though I really think I've traumatised enough people (I need to lose...several inches...before I feel like I have the right to show that much skin ever again).

The only creepy thing that happened in my Blacksmith costume or my LeBlanc costume was a man who looked exactly like Scotty from the ST movies staring at me for whatever reason. O_o; Meh.

It's weird, but LeBlanc, for all the skin showing, took more fabric and more construction time/effort than a lot of my other costumes which were completely non-fanservice. I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that just because it's fanservice, it's incredibly simple...it's just one of those misconceptions along with things like assuming that everyone who's in a revealing costume is a slut, as opposed to cosplaying outfits that they just like for whatever reason. As Christine already mentioned, a lot of jrock costumes end up that way just because guys don't have to worry about err...anything above the waist. :P

Ack, gotta run to class! Sorry if I'm babbling, but Worldcon being my only non-anime con, it's not like I can really comment on stuff at those other cons. ^_^

Kisa
09-17-2003, 03:01 PM
Mage: YOU DO NOT NEED TO LOOSE A FEW INCHES!!! *smacksmakcitysmack*

But I'll definitivly back you up on the hard-to-constructness of something that reveals skin. The Precision involved.... O-x When I was making .//Subaru I basically had to make a bra and make sure it didn't Go Anywhere. Bras are not easy to construct, and all of us females know just how annoying it is to get one to fit RIGHT..... They're precise little bastards, and my fabric sucked for what it was, so I think anyone who has made anything that shows skin can appreciate the time and effort that goes into making something like that.
At least I do ^_^
I wonder if maybe you didn't get the fanservice aspect, because you didn't TRY to get it. You didn't go out of your way to look for it, but you could have gotten it if you wanted to. I think that's the difference. You have a bit more maturity then some of the younguns' that trounce around and then cry "WHY? I don't Understand!" YOU know how to act around people.

I'm kind of lost for this thread as to what to say, since so much HAS been said since I last posted...

I guess it's just that I wish we *didn't* have to educate younger people. They *shouldn't* have to wait to do sexy outfits, even if they probably should. But like Lafiel said, Skin shoudln't turn people off from a costume. I DO think ANyone should be able to cosplay anything they want to, without worrying about the consequences, but we don't live in a society where that's Ok yet.
We've all made fun or at least gone "WHY?!" at of the Horrible Felicia costumes and shaken our head... even if it isn't right. or maybe I'm just a horrible horrible person. Meh. I think if people are going to dress and play up for attention, they need to know the NO word, and not in the cute giggly ambigious way. I know two years ago at Crappy Con, someone in basically a glorified bikini was giving me "help me" looks while a boy was poking her tummy, but she kept going "stop it," but laughing and trying to be Nice. because the cons are such a social event, there's a fear of being mean or saying something and becoming the dreaded 'bitch' for saying something, and I DO think that the younger crowd needs to learn to that it's OK to say No without fear of repercussion or social stigma. I do think the anime cons, because of the age, lacks a bit of that mentality where as we learnt at TT and world con, the people look after eachother and help is not far away. I woudl trust the strangers in the older crowd much more then I would the people who go to AN, because I think there IS a difference in what people are willing to offer. AN is very cliquish and peacocky for example, and unless you know people, it's hard to navigate. There ARE people who adopt other people (the PFGs...) but I do think part of the reason the older crowd is more willing is because like Gord, they have kids our age...

I don't know that there are right and wrong reasons to cosplay :/ I have what I think is right, but... I don't know. It's hard to hold everyone to that, even if occassionall I'll bitch about X-person cosplaying X-character... I've become such an elist snot when it comes to costumes that I'm probably not a good person to judge why ANYONE chooses a specific costume... >.>

As for Hugs and Massages at TT and other cons, I'm kind of glad they did stop the Unnecessary Touching thing. It's a personal issue, but I really don't like to be Touched by people unless I know them, or have given them prior permission. Mage has glomped me a few times, as have friends, and that's fine... because I know them, knew about it in advance or they were friends before ect.ect. But I *really* don't want random strangers in my personal space if they have no reason to be there. So at least that's a positive change that's happened.

As for Fake-Lesbian/Gay antics... I think if you have to resort to cheap attention getting tricks, you're a sad and pathetic individual. Then again, it can also make for one hell of an amusing time... so I guess it just comes down to what's important... attention for a good costume you cursed and swore at for three months, or if you can appeal to the Lizard Brained.

I think this whole thing is so double sided that it's hard to take any stance. on principle I'm annoyed by fanservicyness, I've also played up to it, and when I see it done right(a girl who knows what she's doing and who can handle the boys and isn't skanking it up for the sake of attention but because it adds to her costume ectect), I'm impressed.

aiii. more rambles.

Sarcasm-hime
09-17-2003, 03:02 PM
Interesting! So, THIS is where the ever-huggable MC hides out!! ;)

I agree with thoughts said. I would not have contemplated a more risky costume before, but now, at 22, have decided upon at least 2...which, sadly, will not be seen for another 3 years. However, not my point. (I just pray my body holds out for another 3 years)

I think it would be a good idea to have a panel on this, or include a blurb in the guidbook at cons, or something. Or even something on webpages like this one, where we know younger cosplayers hang out. I know some younger people need to learn all the angles about dressing...scantily...but I would feel strange approaching them one on one and saying 'you know why you are getting this attention, right? were you looking for it? can I explain something to you?' as all I would get is a weird stare (or worse!).


That's an excellent idea; we'll have to remember to bring it up to programming at AN or TT. ^_^


OH, and regarding Sarcasms 'fanservicey' costumes... I think (note, think) shes does them on purpose. But doing so, she knows exactly what she is getting into (and hell, has the figure for it to boot). And that's the way to cosplay fanservice - KNOW what you are getting into with that type of costume. There's nothing wrong with that.
[Sarcasm: just remembering what was on your cosplay page regarding ayumi leaf-costume before AN - yes, I lurk :skidude2: - and I believe you called it your requisite fanservice costume ]


Ehehehe. Yes, in my own defence, I do know exactly what I'm getting into with those costumes, which is why I carefully choose which venues I'll wear them at and which venues I won't. I don't mind stares (or even leers, that much) but obnoxious comments bug the crap out of me.

I choose costumes because I like the design, whether it's a 'fanservice' costume or not. I chose MAPS because I thought it looked cool...and also because I didn't think anybody else would be brazen enough to do it. XD Ditto with Ayumi (I've since seen a couple people do that Ayumi costume, but neither were truly accurate; one wore clearly visible shorts and the other had a veritable 'skirt' of leaves. but I digress...). And I don't have a problem wearing costumes like that because I figure I'm 27, I won't have a nice body forever, I might as well show it off while I've got it. *lol*

But the point (I think) is that those aren't the only types of costumes I wear. I'll wear something if I think it's cool, whether it be skimpy like MAPS or full-coverage like Windy or Morpheus. Granted, I tend to prefer more 'mature' costumes, i.e. dressing up as characters that are obviously adults as opposed to CCS or whatnot. If it's a choice between a frilly poofy girly costume and a slinky evening gown, I'll go for the evening gown. Where was I going with this? ano...


EDIT: that cheesecake thing sounds like fun... can TT start something like that?? Being served desserts by your favorite characters? And it be for charity? (I've just always wanted to be a waitress....pathetic, I know...)

Errrrr...be warned about the Ad Astra Cheesecake contest thingy. I was talked into joining it last year, but missed the signup by a few minutes...and after seeing what it entailed, I was glad I'd missed it. People pay to have you sit on their lap and feed them cheesecake. I'd assumed that this took place out in the lounge with everybody being fun and silly....no, actually, it's in a private room with just you and the person. There's somebody at the door for security, I think, but still I found it a bit creepy. -.-;; I'm a look-don't-touch kind of girl.

heki-chan
09-17-2003, 03:18 PM
cheesecake? O_o;

in anycase, lotsa things have already been said in this thread, so i wont repeat :)

On a personal level, I do whatever design/character i reallyreally like :)

If it *happens* to be...skanky-ish (like gunner and gambler yuna), i do wht my sister and i call "deskankify it"
which is basically making sure we're 100% safe/intact at ALL times and sacrificing as little accuracy as possible

But to me, self-dignity ALWAYS comes first before accuracy, which was the case in Butterfly Chii LOL

Ninja Sensei
09-17-2003, 04:31 PM
I wonder if maybe you didn't get the fanservice aspect, because you didn't TRY to get it. You didn't go out of your way to look for it, but you could have gotten it if you wanted to. I think that's the difference. You have a bit more maturity then some of the younguns' that trounce around and then cry "WHY? I don't Understand!" YOU know how to act around people.

I think that that is a good point. And, like your point about the younger people (or the people who really-really-really need to learn) leraning how to say "No!", how do we get this meessage across so they can play safely and comfortable and still maintain their diginity and respect of others

As for Hugs and Massages at TT and other cons, I'm kind of glad they did stop the Unnecessary Touching thing. It's a personal issue, but I really don't like to be Touched by people unless I know them, or have given them prior permission. Mage has glomped me a few times, as have friends, and that's fine... because I know them, knew about it in advance or they were friends before ect.ect. But I *really* don't want random strangers in my personal space if they have no reason to be there. So at least that's a positive change that's happened.

That's generally the reason this stuff slowed down a lot (I won't say stopped cuz there are some cons around that still do this).

I know that, regardless of my reputation for being a pervert, I will only hug (or "glomped" I guess) someone who has first apporached ME. ... Or whom I'm very confident will not take it the wrong way.

And I've received some pretty good "glompiung" in the past (winks at all past "glompers")

I think this whole thing is so double sided that it's hard to take any stance. on principle I'm annoyed by fanservicyness, I've also played up to it, and when I see it done right(a girl who knows what she's doing and who can handle the boys and isn't skanking it up for the sake of attention but because it adds to her costume ectect), I'm impressed.

If only we can get the ones who don't to follow that example! :)

And like yourself, and Sarcasm, and Heki-Chan ... once the person has the maturity to handle the situation and are comfortable with themselves and others, I think it's great that you can create whatever costume you want ... whether it's "fan service-y" or not! :D

Machiko
09-17-2003, 04:33 PM
personally, i think if a costumes too revealing, and you really want to wear it, modify it lol. it's a weird thing though....character designers...aren't designing much anymore O.o'' and i wanna become one so badly...*sigh*

Ninja Sensei
09-17-2003, 04:35 PM
Errrrr...be warned about the Ad Astra Cheesecake contest thingy. I was talked into joining it last year, but missed the signup by a few minutes...and after seeing what it entailed, I was glad I'd missed it. People pay to have you sit on their lap and feed them cheesecake. I'd assumed that this took place out in the lounge with everybody being fun and silly....no, actually, it's in a private room with just you and the person. There's somebody at the door for security, I think, but still I found it a bit creepy. -.-;; I'm a look-don't-touch kind of girl.

You're right in that security is well represented and always close at hand for this. And, yes ... the "models" feed cheescake etc. to the people who contribute.

But I was thinking ... and in keeping the tome of the thread ... from the perspective of any of YOU availing yourself of the services! You'd be helping out charity ... and having som ehunky guy in leather (or whatever) serve you cheescake, champagne, and/or taking a polaroid. Now, isn't that a "fan service-y" charity event? ;)

(But you're not alone in being more than a little reticent about participating ... on either side. :) )

Eleryth
09-17-2003, 08:37 PM
Ah... I understand. Never having been to a cheesecake event...
Hmm. Very reluctant. But I meant something more like... waitresses, not...personal feeders. But seeing as they are more adult oriented events...stands to reason that they be more... um, 'adult' (alcohol, perhaps, the lap sitting, etc). I do not like the idea of being alone in a room with this person, even with security at the door. In the lounge and being silly, sure. Can I blame my lack of thought on the late hour? *begs* But I do agree that it is a very fanservicy way to support charity, and those who participate should know exactly what they are getting into (i.e. Ad astra should tell ppl what it entails (maybe they do and someone forgot to tell Sarcasm, but I know I would want to know before getting involved))

But I still think it would be fun to have people pick their waitress/waiter from a list in a sit-down setting... (not a fanservicy setting, just a fun dessert filled setting)... like. 'oh! I want Chii to be my waitress!' and the Chii volunteer brings by their water and dessert. That sorta thing.

But maybe that's too difficult to orchestrate, because all the people might want the same waitress. >.< They could pick their top 3 choices, and be seated at specific tables, or something (it would have to be arranged beforehand).

Sarcasm : I hope you took no insult with my comment! It was more to imply as you explained - that you know what you are getting into when you chose a costume like that. And I know you don't limit yourself to just fanservice, either. Who could ever forget your costumes?


We have talked about female fanservice... but what about male fanservice? And how do females react? (and I don't mean the yaoi fanservice - which is usually girls dressed as boys anyway) Is there any?

Mage
09-17-2003, 09:10 PM
Hmm, I don't know...males have a harder time being fanservice-ish, I think...I mean, it's not anything new to see a guy shirtless, whereas girls are traditionally more covered. So other than that the only thing I can think of would be Nacho's male Skuld costume from last AN. O_o *shrug*

Or maybe the guy Toshiya was dragging around on a leash at CNAX would be fanservice. XP hee hee.

Minakolabelle
09-17-2003, 10:39 PM
Or maybe the guy Toshiya was dragging around on a leash at CNAX would be fanservice. XP hee hee.

Hee Chan is walking fanservice, the leash idea was his :X I just suggested he be Michael.

Sarcasm-hime
09-18-2003, 02:49 AM
Eleryth: Daijobu, daijobu. Don't worry, I understood what you meant. ^_^

As for male fanservice, I think this guy (http://eyecandy.iwarp.com/photo.html) embodies it to a T. GAWD he's pretty. *drool.....* haven't seen him in any pics recently though. I wonder what happened to him...

Ninja Sensei
09-18-2003, 08:22 AM
Ah... I understand. Never having been to a cheesecake event...
Hmm. Very reluctant. But I meant something more like... waitresses, not...personal feeders. But seeing as they are more adult oriented events...stands to reason that they be more... um, 'adult' (alcohol, perhaps, the lap sitting, etc). I do not like the idea of being alone in a room with this person, even with security at the door. In the lounge and being silly, sure. Can I blame my lack of thought on the late hour? *begs*

Actually, the actual layout depends on the venue. The last few years at the Colonial Hotel it was held in the one large bedroom of the Con Suite. So, not only was security there, but all the other people as well! And they are all very protective of each other... both men and women.

But it isn't to everybody's tastes. :)

Ninja Sensei
09-18-2003, 08:26 AM
Hmm, I don't know...males have a harder time being fanservice-ish, I think...I mean, it's not anything new to see a guy shirtless, whereas girls are traditionally more covered. So other than that the only thing I can think of would be Nacho's male Skuld costume from last AN. O_o *shrug*

Or maybe the guy Toshiya was dragging around on a leash at CNAX would be fanservice. XP hee hee.

A good line of discussion!

What makes male fan service? Is it just skin? Or the whole look? Sarcasm posted the pics of one of her drool-babes, but I just saw a guy in costume.

Can someone be fully covered and still be considered fan service?

Or is it more along th elines of just giving the crowd (male or female) what they "want"?

Kaijugal
09-18-2003, 10:04 AM
A good line of discussion!

What makes male fan service? Is it just skin? Or the whole look? Sarcasm posted the pics of one of her drool-babes, but I just saw a guy in costume.

Can someone be fully covered and still be considered fan service?

Or is it more along th elines of just giving the crowd (male or female) what they "want"?

How about THIS?? (http://www.matthewelliott.com/Frames/Images/Torso/kilt%20shirtless.jpg) :bigtu:

Ninja Sensei
09-18-2003, 02:41 PM
How about THIS?? (http://www.ravenswing.com/EVILTWINS/spankme/spank3.html) :bigtu:

So you're saying it's just skin?

Jinto
09-18-2003, 03:50 PM
Okay ... I'll bite, whats "ikkitousen"?
I'll bite, 'cos no one else seemed to.
Ikkitousen is a 13 ep fighting anime. A bunch of schools have fight teams that pound the crap out of each other. The thing is, the karate kicks and punches have a tendency to shred girls' clothes, so by the end of a fight you have high school girls in shredded school uniforms barely covering them.
Add in ridiculous figures, tight underwear, extremely short skirts, mix with sex acts that include oral, lesbian, lesbian rape, and old-fashioned boy-girl, and you can see there's not much room left for a plot.
Since there is no actual nudity, it's ecchi, or fan service, but it's really damn close to hentai.

Jinto
09-18-2003, 03:55 PM
I agree with many of everyone’s points, especially about Young people wearing revealing costumes.

*Remembers a thread were a 14 year old was upset about not being able to wear Rikku's Bikini outfit, because her parents wouldn't allow it*


But let us not forget the Gunner Yuna at Anime Boston who filled out her costume quite nicely. I don't think it was until the fuss on the message boards started after the con that most people found out she was thirteen!
Somehow, I don't think her parents really knew what was going on.

Sarcasm-hime
09-18-2003, 04:17 PM
No, she's just being silly. ;-P

For me, it's more look and attitude. Anybody can show off skin, but they have to FEEL sexy. You can just tell when somebody's "got it"--male or female. Suzy Plakson, for example--does anybody remember her as K'ehleyr (Worf's mate) from TNG or as the female Q from Voyager? She's not a blindingly perfect beauty, but she's got this incredible sensuousness in the way she moves and talks. It's that kind of thing. Orlando may be pretty, but Johnny's GOT it. XD

Of course, I don't *mind* seeing a yummy guy in something revealing...XD

Kia
09-18-2003, 06:47 PM
No, she's just being silly. ;-P

For me, it's more look and attitude. Anybody can show off skin, but they have to FEEL sexy. You can just tell when somebody's "got it"--male or female. Suzy Plakson, for example--does anybody remember her as K'ehleyr (Worf's mate) from TNG or as the female Q from Voyager? She's not a blindingly perfect beauty, but she's got this incredible sensuousness in the way she moves and talks. It's that kind of thing. Orlando may be pretty, but Johnny's GOT it. XD

Of course, I don't *mind* seeing a yummy guy in something revealing...XD

That reminds me of World Con. A few people were trying to get me to wear this tiny outfit for the Fashion Show, mostly b/c I was the only one small enough to fit it. It was a NICE outfit, and it fit perfectly, but the problem is that I'm not a "sexy" person, so on me it looked really foolish. If I could have worked it properly it would have be the perfect fanservice outfit, but on me ..... not a chance.... plus you could see my underwear. :p
No fanservice for me! ^_^

Kaijugal
09-18-2003, 10:36 PM
No, she's just being silly. ;-P

For me, it's more look and attitude. Anybody can show off skin, but they have to FEEL sexy. You can just tell when somebody's "got it"--male or female. Suzy Plakson, for example--does anybody remember her as K'ehleyr (Worf's mate) from TNG or as the female Q from Voyager? She's not a blindingly perfect beauty, but she's got this incredible sensuousness in the way she moves and talks. It's that kind of thing. Orlando may be pretty, but Johnny's GOT it. XD

Of course, I don't *mind* seeing a yummy guy in something revealing...XD

I'm not being silly! I'm merely presenting my opinion in what I consider a humorous and entertaining fashion. ;) :D I consider guys in kilts :bigtu: on the whole. Of course that brings into play the question, can we ever agree upon what is / or who's look is fanservice? I mean, we all have our own tastes.

Ninja Sensei
09-19-2003, 12:13 PM
That reminds me of World Con. A few people were trying to get me to wear this tiny outfit for the Fashion Show, mostly b/c I was the only one small enough to fit it. It was a NICE outfit, and it fit perfectly, but the problem is that I'm not a "sexy" person, so on me it looked really foolish. If I could have worked it properly it would have be the perfect fanservice outfit, but on me ..... not a chance.... plus you could see my underwear. :p
No fanservice for me! ^_^


I wasn't really wondering what each individual preferred ... I realise that different people have (quite often) different preferences.

I was more interested in the general aspects of "fan service" ... what it is? what could make something "fan service" and what might not? why the big emphasis in teh anime crowd? what are some of the concerns (such as not knowing how to handle it, younger people, etc.) ...

... And I am well aware of Kaijugal's "thing" for men in kilts. ;)

Sarcasm-hime
09-19-2003, 01:18 PM
In anime itself, the term is usually applied to anything that's done primarily as a gratuitous gesture for the fans. For example, all those shows which feature dozens of beautiful women cavorting around in skin-tight outfist...or Weiss Kreuz, which features four pretty guys fighting crime while looking spectacular.

Or, for a non-anime example, Seven of Nine.

Jinto
09-19-2003, 04:50 PM
In anime itself, the term is usually applied to anything that's done primarily as a gratuitous gesture for the fans. For example, all those shows which feature dozens of beautiful women cavorting around in skin-tight outfist...or Weiss Kreuz, which features four pretty guys fighting crime while looking spectacular.

Or, for a non-anime example, Seven of Nine.
Yeah, good example. Sex appeal inserted for no reason other than to grab eyeballs.
My favorite anime example is Evangelion, which has some gratuitous T & A in the early episodes. The next episode previews even promise more fan service!

Kia
09-19-2003, 05:28 PM
Or, for a non-anime example, Seven of Nine.
And even better, just look at the new costume of the Vulcan on Enterprise (sorry, I forget her name). She's gone from wearing a "Seven of Nine'esq" costume to now having a slightly more revealing costume this season. And you know why? Because they're looking to get back the ratings they lost last season...



Yeah, good example. Sex appeal inserted for no reason other than to grab eyeballs.
My favorite anime example is Evangelion, which has some gratuitous T & A in the early episodes. The next episode previews even promise more fan service!

My high school english teacher used to wear his favourite Evangelion t-shirt to school usually once a month, that was until one girl in my class made a big deal about how increadibly busty those girls were and that they were ONLY 14! She started calling it his "kiddy pron" shirt. He hasn't been able to wear it since.

But really, they're only 14?!? And they look like THAT?!? ... give me a break...