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View Full Version : Petticoat or Hoop skirt?


cosplay_hearts
03-08-2011, 04:01 AM
Well I'm goin to cosplay female ciel, so please look up some pictures if it's not too mug trouble, because I want to know whether the skirt should be a hoop skirt or not.

Kelley
03-08-2011, 04:12 AM
Definitely a hoop skirt.

You might want to take a look at Truly Victorian patterns. :)

Brsis
03-08-2011, 05:14 AM
It depends on what version you're doing.

The anime version is very neat over the hips and flared at the bottom in what is actually a very modern shape. If you're doing the anime version, an a-line bridal hoop skirt is probably your best bet.

If you look at the manga, on the other hand, in the ONE PANEL where he's drawn side on - it's a very pronounced bustle. You can do this as A. A bustle and petticoats or B. A bustle skirt with a hoop around the bottom. Given there is still an a-line flare, I went with the bustle + hoop version, but YMMV depending on your skill level and how much time you have.

Both of these options will need a petticoat over the top of your hoop skirt so that the hoops don't show through.

Of course, when Sebastian picks him up in EITHER version, there is no hoop (And if you're wearing one and want a picture like this, you'll probably have to take it off), and truth be told you COULD do just petticoats - but you're likely to find them much heavier and more restrictive to your movement than a hoop skirt.

Kelley
03-09-2011, 10:43 PM
I haven't seen it recently, but I remember taking a look at it once and thinking the manga version was an elliptical hoop skirt - with a ruffly tie-on bustle if necessary.

Winter's Dream
03-10-2011, 10:03 AM
It really depends on how you want the thing to move. If you want it to flow and swish like in the anime, you'd need a petticoat. If not, a hoop skirt will offer poof, but it wont flow.

alpha_helix
03-10-2011, 11:41 AM
Actually, I've found that hoops have a lot more movement (if you're not used to moving in one, boy they can SWING) while masses of fluffy petticoat have less movement and might feel bunchy around your legs.

Brsis
03-10-2011, 02:51 PM
I haven't seen it recently, but I remember taking a look at it once and thinking the manga version was an elliptical hoop skirt - with a ruffly tie-on bustle if necessary.

Hmm, I could see how you could do it as an elliptical hoop, but I think they tend to be too train heavy and fuller higher up than the dress seems to be. It's just my luck that the only scan I can find is bloody awful (http://www.mangareader.net/102-2016-12/kuroshitsuji/chapter-7.html), but the panel left hand page bottom centre is the side-view I'm thinking of. It's hard to see on such a bad picture, but it looks like the dress falls straight in front, and out and then straight in back. That's what I based the cage bustle decision on, and with the toile skirt over the top it looks great.

The anime version, though, is very definitely a straight a-line - the figurine backs this out. It doesn't have a bustle that I can see, although that massive bow and bias falls hide a multitude of sins.

Also; hoop skirts swish and bounce like CRAZY. Nothing in the world like waltzing in a crinoline - although from personal experience, a quickstep in hoops is a Bad Idea :)

DarkSkyAngel
03-10-2011, 03:37 PM
@Brsis: This (http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/TV_Maniac/23.jpg) was the panel you meant right?

Kelley
03-11-2011, 02:12 AM
I can see how that might be a bustle.

I would just, personally, pick hoop because it's shown going out so much at the sides - http://www.mangareader.net/102-2016-4/kuroshitsuji/chapter-7.html , and when he's sitting, or being lifted, it fans out quite a bit.

I always imagined it being this shaped : http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l39cp8YbfO1qbkn6io1_500.jpg

I could see inspiration being drawn from the early bustle period : http://media.photobucket.com/image/1870s%20bustle/19thcentury/1870.jpg , but not as much the later 1880s.

It would be a decent use of this cheap pattern, too : http://ny-image1.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.92817457.jpg

Brsis
03-11-2011, 04:27 AM
@Brsis: This (http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/TV_Maniac/23.jpg) was the panel you meant right?

It was indeed, thank you!

It's a very difficult dress to de-construct - it's not a historically accurate outfit, it has at least two different versions not counting the DVD cover version which is structurally indistinguishable but has different details, and isn't actually drawn consistently (Note how there's four tiers in that panel? Every other time, it has three). It's also hard to tell how much of the volume and shape comes from the details of the dress (The massive bow and ruffles, the gathered overskirt - even that shoulder bow leaves a lot to the imagination). Aside from the fact that most of my hoops were too long for the dress, which may have been a factor (I couldn't get rid of the 'train' on the elliptical), I found the cage bustle with a hemline hoop looked most like the manga version to my eyes when the toile was draped over it. YMMV.

SantuariosYue
03-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Chiming in on this as it is exactly relevant to my interests. I'm using a hoopskirt for my friend's Ciel cosplay, and I now know how to draft a petticoat to go over it so I sort of have an idea on how to build the underskirts of the cosplay, but for the pink overdress/skirt, I was wondering if I should drape on a bodyform, or flat draft from the measurements of the intended wearer? I was actually planning to make a seperate sloper for the bodice and the skirt, and I was wondering if a circle skirt would be an apropro skirt to fit over a hoop?

cosplay_hearts
03-11-2011, 04:52 PM
Thankyou for the help guys! But which would be better? Because well if I want to suppose sit down or dance with a Sebastian, a hoop skirt won't work, but if I want that kind of bustle, i need a hoop skirt. Are there and kind of way I could make a puffier petticoat?

hanana
03-11-2011, 05:07 PM
petticoat all the way, here is the site i use to make mine :)

http://sugardale.blogspot.com/2008/08/how-to-make-petticoat.html

p.s i recommend a 6 layer one, thats what i made and it was puffy and awesome.

x

Brsis
03-11-2011, 05:15 PM
Thankyou for the help guys! But which would be better? Because well if I want to suppose sit down or dance with a Sebastian, a hoop skirt won't work, but if I want that kind of bustle, i need a hoop skirt. Are there and kind of way I could make a puffier petticoat?

Oh no! You can totally sit down and dance in a hoop skirt. It's not even uncomfortable. What do you think generations of brides and decades of Victorian ladies did? :D

'Better' is very much up to you. What can you afford? What can you make? What shape do you prefer? It should be these informing your decision, rather than our personal takes on the outfit.

Kelley
03-12-2011, 02:15 AM
Yeah, you can definitely sit down and dance in a hoop skirt/bustle - you can do so in ones much larger than this. :P

Honestly, I think it would be much more comfortable than dancing in the layers of petticoats needed to get a skirt to poof out that much. Hoop skirts (and later developments) were considered LIBERATING to women because they were LESS restrictive than the same amount of petticoats.

Garen
03-12-2011, 10:37 AM
Hoop skirts (and later developments) were considered LIBERATING to women because they were LESS restrictive than the same amount of petticoats.

This. However, they also brought up new issues, such as the need for leg coverings underneath. The things move like crazy, and you'll probably want to practice sitting and such beforehand so you don't flash anyone. See The King and I for details.

Thus, I'd suggest finding or making a pair of drawers to go under them just in case. Ciel does indeed have them, as can be seen here (http://www.mangareader.net/102-2017-2/kuroshitsuji/chapter-8.html) in his little flashback sequence.

cosplay_hearts
03-13-2011, 11:17 PM
Oh god, petticoat or hoop? From experience, which ones better? Scratch that, which ones easier to move in?

Kelley
03-14-2011, 01:05 AM
@cosplay_hearts, it depends on the costume. For this one, I think a hoop or cage of some kind would be easier to move in for the amount of poof required rather than layering on netting upon netting that will press against your legs and be quite heavy, especially when worn all day.

If the costume doesn't need much poof, or actually NEEDS a petticoat, that might be the better choice.

TR Rose
03-14-2011, 03:38 PM
Yeah, you can definitely sit down and dance in a hoop skirt/bustle - you can do so in ones much larger than this. :P

Honestly, I think it would be much more comfortable than dancing in the layers of petticoats needed to get a skirt to poof out that much. Hoop skirts (and later developments) were considered LIBERATING to women because they were LESS restrictive than the same amount of petticoats.

Yes, you can sit down/dance in a hoopskirt. :) I've worn dresses with hoopskirts for many, many conventions and had no problems sitting (except in narrow chairs with arms). I've also worn ballgowns with hoop skirts beneath for several semi-formal ball dances at conventions (and could do any type of dancing, from slower waltzes to faster swing dance), and also done a dance skit at a convention while wearing one.

They are quite easy to move around in, especially if you get one with flexible hoops. Then you just have to squish it a bit to get through narrow doorways. My personal recommendation is adjustable hoops, so you can make it as full or narrow as the dress requires. ^^

And I also recommend making a set of bloomers for underneath. If you plan to ride the elevator/escalator or take the stairs, it's definitely a good idea to have something non-revealing under the skirt. Plus it's comfortable!

Bodici22
03-15-2011, 01:47 AM
If you're planning on wearing this at any point in the summer or at a warm con, go with the hoops just for heat reasons.

I wear a petticoat under my hoopskirt for my cake dress, which I made out of a dust ruffle that I found at the thrift store.
If you're wearing hoops, though, you'll also need a petticoat on top to smooth out the look.
These petticoats will be different, though, since their main purpose is not to support the fabric but to cover things up, so you don't need to make them out of stiff fabric.

Chal
03-15-2011, 10:43 AM
For Ciel's dress, I made a hoop skirt. I made the underskirt part, sewed the ruffles on, and THEN attatched the hoops. It would have been too awkward to attatch the ruffles if I had done the hoops first.

On the oher hand, you could always have them as two seperate underkirts, one with hoops, nd hen the ruffles one on top of that. :)

AnimeGeer
03-15-2011, 09:12 PM
A petticoat with lots of layers, you can find them online at various wedding stores