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View Full Version : When do you think Cosplay will be accepted in Fashion?


zoeoviedo
03-10-2011, 01:17 PM
When people find out that I love anime, videogames and cosplaying, they are just like "oh you weirdo thats so cute" but only because I don't look like the type to be into those things at all. I wish people would take it more seriously, that there are thousands of people around the planet that have this passion to re create things that they are passionate about and inspire them, its very much fashion, just because it doesnt retrospectivly fit in with trends ect per say you can't deny that the craft that cosplayers have to be void in this fashion world. idk, I try really hard to bridge the gap, but its pretty hard sometimes :/ is anyone else frustrated with this or am I the only one lol.

Mangochutney
03-10-2011, 02:17 PM
Craftsmanship is always in fashion.

Wearing a bizarre outfit to look like someone else has never been in fashion outside of fan events or costuming events. (cons, concerts, movie openings, fancy-dress balls, Halloween, etc.)

My advice? If you want to make and wear crazy clothes and get a good reaction walking down the street, create original designs and apply all your skill to manifest them as actual, finished, street-wearable garments.

The Hag
03-10-2011, 02:44 PM
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with "never". Though the skill sets for costuming and fashion overlap, they're aren't identical - especially if you are talking about media recreation costuming. I agree with Mango - if you want to be taken seriously, do original designs with couture level craftsmanship. Or you could try to find a position in the costume industry. As a costume hobbyist, I'm pretty content to not be taken very seriously.

Mangochutney
03-10-2011, 02:50 PM
As a costume hobbyist, I'm pretty content to not be taken very seriously.

*standing O*

(Hag summation is best summation.)

zoeoviedo
03-10-2011, 02:54 PM
Yeah, I'm going to have to go with "never". Though the skill sets for costuming and fashion overlap, they're aren't identical - especially if you are talking about media recreation costuming. I agree with Mango - if you want to be taken seriously, do original designs with couture level craftsmanship. Or you could try to find a position in the costume industry. As a costume hobbyist, I'm pretty content to not be taken very seriously.

It's not really about me persay, its about in gerneral, I think that it shouldn't just be scoffed and laughed at, I think alot of animes, and japanese artists love fashion, and thats why they do such detailed and creative creations for what their characters are weraing and even their hairstyle. but since its "anime" heaven forbid, its not something in Zink magazine shot by this photographer and created by this designer that charges way too much for their creations. just my two cents I suppose, but its much more than individuals, more the whole thought that cosplay is just not taken seriously as a whole.

Mangochutney
03-10-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm just going to flat-out admit that I really can't understand what specific thing you're trying to say.

People looking down on anime?
Anime character designs not being recognized as a legitimate fashion influence?
Costuming not being appreciated by those who don't share the hobby?
Per se?

Any of those sound like a nice juicy discussion. Clarify and let's get on it.

glitter bomb
03-10-2011, 03:04 PM
edit: in response to the new post that appeared while I was writing, I'm with Mangochutney. I'm not sure what your point is.

Also worth noting: the fashion industry has already embraced cosplay. Look at the runway shows from the past years (or even the latest season) and you'll see muppets, sci-fi, star trek and comic books (just to name a few) blatantly incorporated into designs.

Why don't people take video games or anime seriously? Well, for the same reason they don't take tv and movies seriously: it's entertainment. There are REAL issues out there to be taken seriously instead. Like poverty, a failing educational system, civil rights, widespread unemployment, corrupt political figures. It's not like people hold intellectual conferences on Desperate Housewives, but dismiss geek culture items. ;)

If what you're really asking is "why can't I wear crazy clothes and be universally embraced and treated seriously?" um... because that's life, that's the way things have been since, like, forever? ;) Really, it's kind of a silly question. If you want more freedom and acceptance then move to a big city. :)

The Hag
03-10-2011, 03:08 PM
Drawing something is not the same as making something wearable - as we all have learned to our great sorrow. Having said that - is it really the case that anime and game designers are pining away because their character designs are not being taken seriously as fashion? Seems to me that if someone wants to be taken seriously in the world of fashion - well then they should design and make clothes in the real world rather than do anime or game character design. Both are admirable pursuits - but they aren't the same thing.

Edit, the first - in the interest of full disclosure, I don't take fashion seriously either. Have you seen some of the things that come down the runway? :crylaugh:

Edit, the second -
*standing O*
*gracious bow*

glitter bomb
03-10-2011, 03:20 PM
Having said that - is it really the case that anime and game designers are pining away because their character designs are not being taken seriously as fashion?
Still not sure what we're discussing, but FWIW --- Video games sometimes hire a fashion designer to create the character clothing (and from what I've seen this is becoming a more popular practice), so I really can't see this being an issue. I strangely straddle both fashion and game design as artistic media, and I can't say I've ever read an article or blog post about a frustrated character designer who just wishes his/her designs would be taken seriously in the real world.

Seems to me that if someone wants to be taken seriously in the world of fashion - well then they should design and make clothes in the real world rather than do anime or game character design.
exactly. :) and from what I've seen, that's what they do.

KitKatCaughtcha
03-10-2011, 03:25 PM
It's kinda more fun for it to be something not everyone does.
Plus keeping a definite line between street clothes and cosplay makes it more special when you do.

Mangochutney
03-10-2011, 03:31 PM
from what I've seen, that's what they do.

*cough* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooManyBelts) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/Poitboing/tetsyua.jpg *cough* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Zipperiffic?from=Main.EverythingsBetterWithZippers )
Tetsuya Nomura

glitter bomb
03-10-2011, 03:53 PM
*cough* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooManyBelts) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/Poitboing/tetsyua.jpg *cough* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Zipperiffic?from=Main.EverythingsBetterWithZippers )
Tetsuya Nomura

Some people are happy to just do character design and leave it at that. They incorporate fashion design into their work, but they understand that they really are a game character designer. Others want to do actual fashion design for the real world and pursue it (or work in both fields).

I've never seen an interview where Tetsuya Nomura is stating he's a frustrated fashion designer and wishes Paris and New York would take him seriously for his game work. Does he do that?

KitKatCaughtcha
03-10-2011, 04:05 PM
*cough* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooManyBelts) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/Poitboing/tetsyua.jpg *cough* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Zipperiffic?from=Main.EverythingsBetterWithZippers )
Tetsuya Nomura

Lol they mention him by name here. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChainedByFashion)

Mangochutney
03-10-2011, 04:08 PM
I've never seen an interview where Tetsuya Nomura is stating he's a frustrated fashion designer and wishes Paris and New York would take him seriously for his game work. Does he do that?


Nah. This article (http://www.kh2.co.uk/website/interviews/opm) suggests that he does actually wear fashions similar to his game designs, though, so who's to say?

To me, he does give off the "I wish I were making these clothes for real but I'm in games so I have to put them in games" vibe--mainly because his style-campaigning is so consistent, forceful, and keyed to his personal taste to an unusual degree. But ultimately it's just conjecture and more of a joke than anything else. I sincerely doubt he's ever said flat-out he'd rather be making real clothes, and probably never will.

glitter bomb
03-10-2011, 04:29 PM
@ Mangochutney --

I actually get a kick out the fact that his individual style is so similar to the designs he creates. ;)

I personally think the line between film and video games is blurring on a number of fronts. Respected film actors are doing character voices for video games. Writing is becoming more and more important, with game companies recognizing the need for both solid storyline and engaging dialog to appease game customers. Art books are produced for the character and environmental design.

The technology used to create ultra-realistic game action and environments is also being used in film for CGI sequences (and vice-versa). Which may mean that the computer animation talent is doing the same (I'm not sure on this, but I'd be surprised if there weren't crossover). The opening sequences and cut scenes on games are being directed like film, with lighting and "camera" angle getting more creative and dynamic. Games are being made into films, films are being made into games.

My point in all this is that I think games are becoming a more respected and influential media on a number of creative fronts. The same way that tv and film can have an enormous impact on fashion trends, I don't think it's far fetched to say that games may start having a similar influence. The more they become a part of our mainstream pop culture, the stronger the influence. So seeing game-influenced fashions in stores may not be too far fetched. Just as films will sometimes court famous fashion designers for the costumes, we may find that game designers and fashion designers develop a symbiotic relationship.

And as I've mentioned, comic books and comic characters have already made their way onto runways as fashion designers incorporate very literal translations from that media.

@ the OP - sorry if we're now veering off topic.

kiratsukai
03-10-2011, 06:16 PM
I certainly hope not.

Since a majority of cosplay involves copying a reference as closely as possible to duplicate someone else's work ~ the fashion equivalent would be more or less intellectual theft.

Besides, I really I don't want to wear something from a cartoon, comic book, or crossdressing screamo band and not know it O-o;

"Cosplay" isn't likely to inspire much in fashion, since it's a derivative medium in itself.
The mediums that inspire cosplayers (comics, movies, animation, games, film, professions with fetishy or cool uniforms) already do influence fashion: see the lolita and gal movements, "harajuku" fashion worship in the US and Europe, deconstructed kimonos, kimono prints, the schoolgirl/schoolboy trend that came and went in Japan last year, military/schoolboy caps on girls, etc..

The Hag
03-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Still not sure what we're discussing

Whatever we want to! It's the off topic forum! \o/

Video games sometimes hire a fashion designer to create the character clothing (and from what I've seen this is becoming a more popular practice), so I really can't see this being an issue.

Now that is very interesting and something that I did not know (I'm seamstress - not a designer). I can envision a Venn diagram of fashion-(film/theater)-videogame designer skills. Conceptually - to me anyway - video game (or anime) design seems more similar to film or theater (opera included in there) in that you have a character description and you design to that. Even hobbyist costumers who are doing original designs are generally doing it with an original character in mind. Fashion design (I would think) is very different to that, yes? If I had to guess, I'd say that you are designing based on your own interests and vision but also having to think about what other people will find interesting and want to wear themselves as opposed to just looking at it and going "Ooooh, pretty!" At the same time, I wouldn't think that someone designing for animation would need to have the knowledge of fabric and texture (let alone construction) that a theater/film or fashion designer would need.


My point in all this is that I think games are becoming a more respected and influential media on a number of creative fronts.

Hmmmm. Certainly games have gained in popularity. In respect and influence? I'm not so sure. At least not in the US. Seems like when many people think about video games at all they only think of the ultra violent games that get all the MSM publicity. Fox News is trying to tell people that playing Bulletstorm will turn you into a rapist. The Supreme Court is going to rule on that ridiculous California law during the current session. On the other hand - as long as the vg industry is making money, there will be people looking to get their hands on some of it (cynical, I know). There may be more overlap between fashion and the gaming industry in Japan. I have a hard time seeing it in the US where so much of the gaming seems to be Madden, Halo, Gears of War. But not being in either the fashion industry or the gaming industry I could be wrong!

sam vimes
03-10-2011, 07:03 PM
I couldn't give a toss, being a jeans 'n tee shirt type as it is.

Convulsive
03-10-2011, 08:25 PM
Well at my school, I could pull off costumes if I took pride in them and if everyone knew me. Almost everyone at school knows me and how serious i take my costumes, and trust me, I'm the only one serious about halloween! Of course, yes, it's halloween but i get a lot of stares but eventually the 'strangers' at school warm up to my crazy wigs & outfits because i'm not afraid to be seen in them.

If we all decided to put on a cosplay one day, make kind of like... a NATIONAL COSPLAY DAY! people would see how many of us LOVE this kind of stuff and take us a little more seriously.

glitter bomb
03-10-2011, 09:20 PM
@ the Hag -- I had typed out a long, thought-out response, which didn't post. so if I get the motivation I'll try replying again. ;)

fabrickind
03-11-2011, 01:46 AM
I wear lolita fashion on a pretty much daily basis. While it is a fashion and not connected to costuming in any way (well, I'm sure that anime and such has had -some- influence on it, but mostly it's anime appropriating the fashion, not the other way around, especially considering the quality of "lolita" designs in anime!), it still looks costumey to the average person, simply for being so out of the norm (and for sometimes being a bit... out there). I get maybe 80% really positive reactions to how I dress, 10% really negative reactions, and the other 10% neutral. (And quite a few people from all categories are simply curious!) Thus, it is possible to wear something that looks "costumey" (and is connected in some way to anime culture) and get positive reactions. People tell me all the time that I brighten up their day just by dressing the way I do.

Though, I think that a lot of that is due to quality. Quality of design, quality of sewing, quality of coordination. Throwing on a random Naruto headband that doesn't match an outfit or one of those fleece character hats signifies "NERD!!" to the general public, and just overall does not look good (not saying that you can't wear it -- a lot of people wear things that don't look good!). Even if an outfit is "costumey" to the general public, it still has to be well put together in order to come off as fashion, not costume. I take great care to make sure that my outfits look like fashion, not like costumes (like pretty much every other lolita in the world, haha).

A lot of anime-style outfits look impressive on the page, but are obviously costumes (or plain look bad without some tweaking) when actually made and worn. It's not poor design -- it's poor design for real life. (Same goes for impossible or improbable costume designs, but that's another thing... I'm mostly talking colour combinations, types of detailing, etc. Improbably large ruffles or an improbably large bow or what have you looks great in anime [and the large ruffles/bow/etc. are needed to have clarity], but would look really bad and costumey as a fashion choice in real life [a smaller ruffle or some nice lace trim would be better], etc.) At some point you ahve to go "oh, that would never work" and abandon anime-styled design elements and instead go for perhaps anime-inspired design elements that translate to real life without creaming COSTUME! at you.

And it has to be well sewn.

And it all has to match and go together (and not just be randome anime T-shirt + random colourful skirts + random accessories, etc.).


...Of course, you'll never be totally taken seriously, and costuming will never be the same as high fashion. And, of course, I don't dress in costume everyday, I dress in clothing everyday. I use the example of lolita because it can be seen as costumey, even when done well, but obviously, it -isn't- a costume.

Err~~ I think my reply is as tangety as the thread, and makes just as little sense. =_______=;

Sybren117
03-11-2011, 12:42 PM
Hey, zoeoviedo! Interesting thread, I posted one in the general cosplay chat thread the other day.

I agree with absolutely EVERYTHING you said, and I personally think there is definitly the potential for this to be accepted as an alternative but undeniably stylized style of fashion. Now, depending on how extravagant the costumes you want to be seen as acceptable are, it may be difficult. In my post, I say that I honestly think some of the more restrained outfits are genuinely stylish if made well (a big problem with a lot of this stuff being accepted in fashion would be the quality, a lot of the outfits you look at and it does just look like a costume, simply because of the 'home-made' look of the outfit).

As an example, I have the sleeveless ribbed high-top sweater that everyone knows from cloud in final fantasy 7 advent children. I wear that with fingerless leather gloves and high-top strapped over boots (from Hope in FF13). With that I wear 3/4 length black pants, like Noctis from FF versus 13, and then some accessories like wide sweat bands matching colours and a loose end long scarf that I wear behind my back like a miniature cape. I have worn this out loads in public and I don't get any 'oooh look at that weirdo'. In fact, I receive I surprising number of compliments! nothing too extreme, just the odd 'oooh nice jumper' or 'wow I like those boots'. It's all about how you wear it, a lot of these clothes are high maintenance, and easily fall apart so thats another difficulty.

At the end of the day, I think if a lot of cosplay clothes were made to a REALLY high quality, like properly manufactured by clothing companies, you would definitly see some of them being worn as fashion items.

Its all about how you work it!

:D

ToroSonyCat
03-23-2011, 03:30 PM
Honestly? Never.
I don't think there will ever be a time when you can walk out of your house wearing a full-on cosplay and be accepted.
But hey, I may be proven wrong.

I honestly couldn't care less if people judge me for cosplaying, infact lots of people do but the people who accept me are the only ones that matter.

KanaTamago
05-13-2011, 04:18 PM
Yes, and no.
Depends on what other people's impressions are. If you walk out in public wearing a in-your-face-anime-character outfit, then people will look at you weird.
In some series the character's outfits look as if it were more acceptable to the public/runway/formal that it is possible to wear it and not get the reaction of 'This is so this character'
In some cases a certain trend that would normally be considered to be quirky (last year they had a lot of military-esque outfits) would be sold in mainstream markets, and people would wear them, whether it resembles any known character or not.

Gabbyv23
05-13-2011, 09:48 PM
Hopefully never.
Hopefully it will never go mainstream.
Ain't nobody gonna take this hobby away from us....

Stormraven24
05-13-2011, 10:36 PM
In a word: never. It will become mainstream fashion when the Cirque du Soleil costumes do ;)

carolinabirdxo
06-02-2011, 02:57 PM
I wouldn't worry about it being accepted. Just enjoy doing it :)
And if it makes you feel better, Madonna allegedly cosplays Mello from Death Note in her music video "Jump" (she's a huge fan).

moogles1989
07-29-2011, 04:28 AM
probably never honestly... as a design student we learn that fashion is influenced mainly by the trend forcasters. there are people out there that are hired to go out traveling the world to look for whats hot on the streets and they compile all their shopping and observations and creat trend forcasting books with silhouettes colors styles fabrics and trims that will be hot for the coming two years. these people always think 3 years into the future. professional designers than look at these books draw inspiration from them and come up with their lines and collections.

the only way to really start your own trend is if you are a designer with a reputation and are a household name such as dior, givenchy, chanel, valentino , mcqueen etc. thats the only to start your own trend.

but honestly cosplay will never be mainstream because its a costume. people are not going to wear costumes unless its for a show or halloween or whatever.

now cosplay inpired designs? thats something new and could go somewhere, just not exact replicas.