PDA

View Full Version : Putting GPS Chips in Children & Teens


samusaran253
03-16-2011, 02:17 PM
I was on another forum, the official Star Wars: The Old Republic forum of all places, where someone made a thread make a ridiculous claim that at birth all people should be forced to have a GPS tracking chip inserted into their brain. His argument was that it would help stop abductions and kidnappings. He also said it would help stop teen sex, drug & alcohol abuse, breaking curfew, and other acts of civil disobedience. The entire community, save for Geshalt (another user) and the OP, then told him how horrible of an idea it was. People cited references to totalitarian government, human rights violations, how such a thing could be abused by the government/abusive parents/pedophiles who figure out how to track kids and teenagers.

People also said how it's like treating human beings like cattle. Some users said that it should be allowed up until they turn 13 and then it should be removed, and other users said that if you need a GPS locator to keep your children safe, then you shouldn't have kids. Personally I'm against such a thing, it's a very slippery slope after all, and I while I'm not a minor, I probably would have killed myself as a teenager if my parents and/or the government could figure out my exact location at any given time. I sarcastically told the OP that he might as well have thought police while he was at it. So, what do you think of this?

Akiyhrah
03-16-2011, 03:29 PM
I think it's a breach of basic human rights. You're taking away their freedom and independence, and as much as I would love a way to keep tabs on my future children, I also don't want to force them to obey. Part of growing up is learning how to be responsible, and you can't do that the same way if you're under lock and key, so to speak.
Sure I did dumb things and made mistakes when I was a teenager, but I learned from those mistakes. If kids aren't allowed the same room to make mistakes, then they won't learn that there are consequences and when they become adults they won't know what the heck to do! Either that, or they will rebel even more against their parents... I know I would have been furious if my parents always knew my exact location.

sam vimes
03-16-2011, 03:32 PM
I think you're giving way to much importance to the ravings of an online lunatic.

Jia Jem
03-16-2011, 03:35 PM
I think you're giving way to much importance to the ravings of an online lunatic.

It's okay. I know where he lives so we can stay far, far away from him. (His mom told me where he was.)

penny_dreadful
03-16-2011, 03:42 PM
It's okay. I know where he lives so we can stay far, far away from him. (His mom told me where he was.)

I just want to say that when I read "Miss Admin if you're nasty" I laughed my big, fat butt right off.

Jia Jem
03-16-2011, 03:51 PM
I just want to say that when I read "Miss Admin if you're nasty" I laughed my big, fat butt right off.

Then my job is done. v_v (And it's proof of my age... I wonder how many kids get it....)

ashelia89
03-16-2011, 03:52 PM
@ OP ,you mean the rfid ? That's not exactly new talk,but if anyone values their freedom they should protest it down to the bone,it's unconstitutional.

Access
03-16-2011, 04:14 PM
Kinda reminds me of an old computer game I played when I was a kid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunter:_New_York
Just rest assured it's not technically achievable in the modern day, the 'ankle bracelets' that released or paroled criminals wear run off batteries and those don't last forever. The batteries need to be changed or charged on a regular basis. About the limit of modern technology is a passive RFID tag (used for certain types of livestock, etc.) and this cannot provide active location, it can only notify you when the tag is nearby a scanner, or passes through a portal.

It's more likely this technology would be adopted voluntarily based on benefits or convenience, for instance people having a secure chip implanted into their hand which would replace having to carry / lose a wallet with an ID card, entry pass, or driver's license, credit cards, etc. and keys for starting a car or getting into one's home. Of course there would be issues there too once hackers figured out how to crack the security (few things designed by humans are absolutely foolproof).

It may seem odd today, but it's hard to predict future trends. Imagine trying to live today without a cellphone or a car (in many cities). If such a thing were to become the norm for point-of-sale transactions, then living without the implanted chip may be inconvenient as fewer and fewer restaurants and stores accept credit/debit cards or even cash.

Michi
03-16-2011, 05:27 PM
Then my job is done. v_v (And it's proof of my age... I wonder how many kids get it....)

Oh man I didn't even stop to think that anyone wouldn't get it, but that's so true. I love it also, by the way!

rubyspitfire
03-16-2011, 08:03 PM
this kind of reminds me of the proposed rfid chip in driver's licenses... and talk about it evolving into an actual chip implanted in your hand (like the one they inject into cats and dogs). it probably won't happen any time soon, but i wouldn't be surprised if the government pushed something like this before the end of my lifetime

Kildread
03-16-2011, 08:05 PM
I think people can be controlling little douchebags and pretend it's for the good of all.

Then my job is done. v_v (And it's proof of my age... I wonder how many kids get it....)

The only thing I can think of when I look at it isn't appropriate for this forum.

Does that help?

Yukikittie
03-16-2011, 08:26 PM
Damn, that's either one sucessful troll...
Or one complete moron.

Volnixshin
03-16-2011, 08:29 PM
@ OP ,you mean the rfid ? That's not exactly new talk,but if anyone values their freedom they should protest it down to the bone,it's unconstitutional.

Yeah seriously, I remember hearing this debate when I was in second grade and that was in 1995 I think

Ion
03-16-2011, 08:39 PM
Then my job is done. v_v (And it's proof of my age... I wonder how many kids get it....)

LOL reference got! Now, if you had the big hair and signature black stretch pants and blazer to accompany the title, it would be amazing. :D

nannyogg
03-16-2011, 08:55 PM
There is a thing called supervision for children under 13 that greatly reduces the likelihood that they would go missing. Aside from the obvious civil rights issue in implanting a GPS, it would also create a false sense of safety that might make parents even more lax. Creepers would still creep.

rubyspitfire
03-16-2011, 08:58 PM
There is a thing called supervision for children under 13 that greatly reduces the likelihood that they would go missing. Aside from the obvious civil rights issue in implanting a GPS, it would also create a false sense of safety that might make parents even more lax. Creepers would still creep.

agree 100%. supervision of children is a parent's job, not the government's

DireKitty
03-16-2011, 09:35 PM
We should, that way I can dig it out of my arm and be a badass rogue.

...who wants to join my underground army?!!?

ashelia89
03-16-2011, 09:39 PM
*raises hand* I DOOOO :D !!! I wanna be part of the bad ass rogues XD

Slayer Alex
03-17-2011, 12:37 AM
Oh the classic balance of Liberty and Safety. On the plus side you would be safer. People want to be safe right? Most would say yes, but few would agree to being locked in a padded room and fed health food while being watched all day. Even though that would make you super safe, you would have little to no freedoms.

One extreme is a dangerous Anarchy, the other is almost slavery. Its a hard balance to find. IMO i think the chips fall a bit more into the slavery side. But people are fickle. All it takes is a threat to safety to get people to think differently. a few moms lose their son and its "Oh boo hoo if only he had that chip I would have known where the kidnapper held him. Its obviously not my fault for not watching him.... It must be the governments fault. why are they not doing something about this?? dont they care about our saftey?? boohoo"

Shana05
03-17-2011, 01:03 AM
Wasn't this on an episode of Law & Order: SVU? Except the chip needed to be scanned.

Lithium Flower
03-17-2011, 01:14 AM
That's what baby leashes are for.

rubyspitfire
03-17-2011, 01:36 AM
That's what baby leashes are for.

*nods* i had one of these when my son first began to walk. he was all over the place and too short to hold my hand. it was cleverly disguised as a monkey backpack, with an extra long tail :D

Lithium Flower
03-17-2011, 01:46 AM
...I want a monkey-pack D:

nannyogg
03-17-2011, 08:31 AM
*nods* i had one of these when my son first began to walk. he was all over the place and too short to hold my hand. it was cleverly disguised as a monkey backpack, with an extra long tail :D

That sounds cute! I was sorely tempted at times to do that for my youngest son and my youngest daughter, but we figured out how to make it work. It's hard for my youngest because under bright lights, her vision washes out, so when she was little and we'd go to the store, it was really easy for her to end up wandering off, following the wrong pair of jeans. Since I have more than one kid, I ended up doing buddy system with the littler paired to the bigger and that way they both were so busy making sure the other was staying by mom that it made life easier for all.

Chipface
03-17-2011, 08:49 AM
I already think government is way overbearing as it is. If they actually tried chipping people, I would either start or join a rebellion.

UsakoLuna
03-17-2011, 08:56 AM
Microchip in my dog? Yes. Microchip my future children? No. I promise I'll watch them, hold their hands ect. Supervision = safe kids. Watch your kids, talk to to your teens and I don't think you'll need a chip

beEp
03-17-2011, 12:19 PM
Oh, you didn't know? I think a few people mentioned it already, but the idea isn't as far-fetched as it sounds. It's already being developed, though it's designed to go in the hand, not the brain. Eventually they'll try to have one implanted in everyone.

Ariyakas
03-17-2011, 01:44 PM
Isn't that what they're doing now with teen's cellphones or something ? Apparently CNN says they're making phones for children where you can video surveillance your child at any time while they aren't able to notice and listen to their conversations. It's the latest in stalker technology

Access
03-17-2011, 04:36 PM
Isn't that what they're doing now with teen's cellphones or something ? Apparently CNN says they're making phones for children where you can video surveillance your child at any time while they aren't able to notice and listen to their conversations. It's the latest in stalker technology
I don't know about full-time video surveillance (that would be impossible if the phone is in a backpack or pocket) but right now they have apps that will keep track of each kid's phone in realtime and place them on google maps or such, as well as monitor who they are calling, texting, or who is texting them, etc.

The thing is that in many cases, by the time they are in their teens the kids are more tech-savvy than their parents, so they will learn of the tracking and possibly even disable or bypass it.

The government forcefully chipping people is not going to happen in the US any time soon, if it happens it will happen in Asia and/or Europe long before it is even considered here. People in the US are very privacy-conscious relative to the rest-of-world, I can only imagine the uproar.

Ariyakas
03-17-2011, 04:41 PM
I don't know about full-time video surveillance (that would be impossible if the phone is in a backpack or pocket) but right now they have apps that will keep track of each kid's phone in realtime and place them on google maps or such, as well as monitor who they are calling, texting, or who is texting them, etc.

The thing is that in many cases, by the time they are in their teens the kids are more tech-savvy than their parents, so they will learn of the tracking and possibly even disable or bypass it.

The government forcefully chipping people is not going to happen in the US any time soon, if it happens it will happen in Asia and/or Europe long before it is even considered here. People in the US are very privacy-conscious relative to the rest-of-world, I can only imagine the uproar.

I think one could even argue it's against their 4th amendment rights, so no I do not see it being an actual possibility in the nearby future.

WARPAINTandUnicorns
03-17-2011, 05:40 PM
I was going to say there are apps now to track your friends by their GPS function on their cell phone. I forget what's it's called but it has a both cool and creepy feel to the thing. >___<

sweetnsassy
03-17-2011, 06:39 PM
*nods* i had one of these when my son first began to walk. he was all over the place and too short to hold my hand. it was cleverly disguised as a monkey backpack, with an extra long tail :D

Heh, my nephew has one of those. I swear he knows how adorable he looks in it and uses that to his advantage.

RinoaShadow
03-18-2011, 01:47 AM
i personally think that's a terrible idea... besides it would cost far too much-- with all the thigns that go on in the world, i highly doubt the goverment would waste money on implanting chips into peoples heads.

also, why do that to a perfectly healthy child for instance? if it isnt broke, dont fix it. theres a whole host of things that can go wrong in these procedures. and even if theyre not healthy children for instance, thats just another misery for them.

plus, it goes agaisnt human rights. if you don't want a chip in your braind, then you shouldn't have to have one >.>

Kelley
03-18-2011, 02:10 AM
I think we're thinking too optimistically here.

We all know that people will be lining up to get chipped. It won't be marketed as anything objectionable - maybe it will be an implant that works as a phone headset, but the technology will grow and grow and that's what you'll end up with. It will start up with something you're comfortable with and it will start slipping things in.

Any smart corporation or government is going to market it like that, not explicitly as "our way of knowing where you are all the time". It's going to slip in and go largely unnoticed until it's too late. With the technology we have today, it's already happening - your phone is probably giving away your location right now (and your car might, or will if you get a new one in the future), and body modifications of all kinds are becoming more acceptable - be it plastic surgery or tattoos - implants themselves are becoming more common. More "normal" people are getting them, people who don't necessarily have a large amount of mods in the first place. We're becoming more comfortable with changing our bodies - be it for a passing whim, in dedication to someone else, for art, or for any reason.

I'm not saying we'll reach the point of "everyone tracked all the time" tomorrow or in ten years or in fifty - but if it happens, it will sneak up on us, and it will be something you want to do.


I am not arguing that it should happen, but if it does, you won't know until it's too late.

DireKitty
03-18-2011, 09:11 AM
I think we're thinking too optimistically here.

We all know that people will be lining up to get chipped. It won't be marketed as anything objectionable - maybe it will be an implant that works as a phone headset, but the technology will grow and grow and that's what you'll end up with. It will start up with something you're comfortable with and it will start slipping things in.

Any smart corporation or government is going to market it like that, not explicitly as "our way of knowing where you are all the time". It's going to slip in and go largely unnoticed until it's too late. With the technology we have today, it's already happening - your phone is probably giving away your location right now (and your car might, or will if you get a new one in the future), and body modifications of all kinds are becoming more acceptable - be it plastic surgery or tattoos - implants themselves are becoming more common. More "normal" people are getting them, people who don't necessarily have a large amount of mods in the first place. We're becoming more comfortable with changing our bodies - be it for a passing whim, in dedication to someone else, for art, or for any reason.

I'm not saying we'll reach the point of "everyone tracked all the time" tomorrow or in ten years or in fifty - but if it happens, it will sneak up on us, and it will be something you want to do.


I am not arguing that it should happen, but if it does, you won't know until it's too late.

It will be the iChip.

DUDE MAN... I LIKE DON'T EVEN NEED A PHONE... I can just like... hold my arm to my mouth and talk... and I can just say "call rob" and it does it... no buttons... and i never need to charge it!

Dude, you need the iChip 2... it has an ear implant so you don't even need to move your arm... and when i walk into a store, it logs my new location on 4 square! I'm like so connected.

ashelia89
03-18-2011, 11:41 AM
I think we're thinking too optimistically here.

We all know that people will be lining up to get chipped. It won't be marketed as anything objectionable - maybe it will be an implant that works as a phone headset, but the technology will grow and grow and that's what you'll end up with. It will start up with something you're comfortable with and it will start slipping things in.

Any smart corporation or government is going to market it like that, not explicitly as "our way of knowing where you are all the time". It's going to slip in and go largely unnoticed until it's too late.

Quoted for truth outright,and with that I feel people should become aware of what constitutes as having their freedoms being taken away,and most of all to question such a practice in the first place.

nannyogg
03-18-2011, 01:41 PM
Quoted for truth outright,and with that I feel people should become aware of what constitutes as having their freedoms being taken away,and most of all to question such a practice in the first place.

Definitely. A lot of the small invasions of privacy that bother me don't seem to bother most people at all. Like security cameras all over the place. Or I hear talk about a scannable medical card with someone's whole health history on it (that anyone could steal and read). Or the computers that have the "anti theft device" where the webcam can be automatically activated and recorded (there have already been glitches and lawsuits with that). The list goes on...

DireKitty
03-18-2011, 06:45 PM
Definitely. A lot of the small invasions of privacy that bother me don't seem to bother most people at all. Like security cameras all over the place. Or I hear talk about a scannable medical card with someone's whole health history on it (that anyone could steal and read). Or the computers that have the "anti theft device" where the webcam can be automatically activated and recorded (there have already been glitches and lawsuits with that). The list goes on...

That webcam thing is fishy... i mean when I steal a computer, i unplug the damn thing first... i dunno about you, but thats my protocol..

Cadmium Polyphony
03-18-2011, 11:07 PM
i personally think that's a terrible idea... besides it would cost far too much-- with all the thigns that go on in the world, i highly doubt the goverment would waste money on implanting chips into peoples heads.

Aw.... s'cute.

nannyogg
03-18-2011, 11:19 PM
That webcam thing is fishy... i mean when I steal a computer, i unplug the damn thing first... i dunno about you, but thats my protocol..

Personally, I put a Hello Kitty sticker over it. That makes it extra cute.

Apparently this (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158818/Pennsylvania_schools_spying_on_students_using_lapt op_webcams_claims_lawsuit) is what happened to students who used legitimately issued school laptops...

sweetnsassy
03-19-2011, 09:27 AM
Are yoU F***ING KIDDING ME?! That's outrageous! Also, what right does a school have in saying a kid's behavior is improper when he's AT HOME? Don't these school officials realize their jurisdiction ends at the school property line? What he does or doesn't do at home is none of their damn business!

FinalEVA
03-19-2011, 01:12 PM
I'm kind of glad I grew up when I did and haven't had to deal with all these devices to invade my privacy.

That being said, despite what technology allows - I will still grant my kids the same kind of privacy that I had.

nannyogg
03-19-2011, 11:09 PM
I'm kind of glad I grew up when I did and haven't had to deal with all these devices to invade my privacy.

That being said, despite what technology allows - I will still grant my kids the same kind of privacy that I had.

I think my kids may have more privacy than I did. For example, when I was a kid, all phones attached to the wall and we only had one in the kitchen and one in my mom's room. And you sure weren't allowed the privacy of going into mom's room, so everyone could hear all of your phone conversations. With wireless and cell phones in the house, my kids can take the phone outside, in their room, etc...

I do have the same way to check up on my kids as when I grew up... living in a small town, they know I'm going to hear about whatever they're doing... and if it wasn't appropriate, I'll probably know before they even get home. At least one involved parent and a community that cares works far better than a stupid GPS chip ever could.

Kildread
03-19-2011, 11:12 PM
At least one involved parent and a community that cares works far better than a stupid GPS chip ever could.

QFT.

If that idea ever makes it to the market, it's only use will be a placebo --- reassuring people that they are aware of where they kids are without actually paying much attention.

Katen_Kyokotsu
03-19-2011, 11:23 PM
I hate to be the one to think this way, and it may be due to me watching too many crime shows this month, but... if we did have these tracker chips, eventually some sick freak would figure out how to turn it off or take it out without killing the kid/teen. Wouldn't they? And if one figures it out, he'll pass that information onto another, and then it gets put onto the internet, and eventually you have teens turning their own chips off.

DireKitty
03-20-2011, 10:32 AM
I hate to be the one to think this way, and it may be due to me watching too many crime shows this month, but... if we did have these tracker chips, eventually some sick freak would figure out how to turn it off or take it out without killing the kid/teen. Wouldn't they? And if one figures it out, he'll pass that information onto another, and then it gets put onto the internet, and eventually you have teens turning their own chips off.

Well, not a sick freak, but someone who joins my underground rebellion!

The only way having a chip removed would threaten your life is if it was tied into your brain some way... or like in your heart or something (but that wouldn't make sense, if if malfunctioned it would like asplode or something).

Anyways, back to my rebellion, we'd have lots of taverns on our pirate island, and boats. Gotta have boats...

The Seventh Sea
03-20-2011, 10:38 AM
Anyways, back to my rebellion, we'd have lots of taverns on our pirate island, and boats. Gotta have boats...

Boats you say......what kinda boats...?

DireKitty
03-20-2011, 10:43 AM
Boats you say......what kinda boats...?

Well, personally I want something like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ICrhtu8ajW8/THsJqQPZ0HI/AAAAAAAAAHE/SZVQnm_Q1ZI/s1600/spanish_galleon_3.jpg

But i'm open to suggestions. I'll have a little box for people to put them in.

Katen_Kyokotsu
03-20-2011, 06:47 PM
Well, personally I want something like this:

*picture of boat*

But i'm open to suggestions. I'll have a little box for people to put them in.

If you have a boat, then can I have a ship?
I was thinking about something like this: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/wolfwoodavenger/Cowboy%20Bebop/ship-swordfishii.jpg

And the reason I was saying how they'd find a way without killing them is because of this I read in the first post- "GPS tracking chip inserted into their brain"
Also, about this quote "He also said it would help stop teen sex, drug & alcohol abuse, breaking curfew, and other acts of civil disobedience." how would a GPS help stop this? Say a teen has a club that meets at the park (like a swim meet or something), who's to say they won't just do this stuff there? They might sneak the drugs and alcohol in and do them in the bathroom. Same with the sex, minus the sneaking it in part. They could even be doing it at school during lunch. It just shows where they are, not what they're doing.

DireKitty
03-20-2011, 07:07 PM
If you have a boat, then can I have a ship?
I was thinking about something like this: *picture of ship*

And the reason I was saying how they'd find a way without killing them is because of this I read in the first post- "GPS tracking chip inserted into their brain"
Also, about this quote "He also said it would help stop teen sex, drug & alcohol abuse, breaking curfew, and other acts of civil disobedience." how would a GPS help stop this? Say a teen has a club that meets at the park (like a swim meet or something), who's to say they won't just do this stuff there? They might sneak the drugs and alcohol in and do them in the bathroom. Same with the sex, minus the sneaking it in part. They could even be doing it at school during lunch. It just shows where they are, not what they're doing.

Hmm, I suppose you can have that. But then i'll have to have this:

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/05/star_trek/image/starshipenterpriseamodel.jpg

We'll get doctors to deal with their damn chips. Pirate doctors.

Cadmium Polyphony
03-20-2011, 07:21 PM
Are yoU F***ING KIDDING ME?! That's outrageous! Also, what right does a school have in saying a kid's behavior is improper when he's AT HOME? Don't these school officials realize their jurisdiction ends at the school property line? What he does or doesn't do at home is none of their damn business!

There's another edge to that sword though, isn't there?

I mean, if Johnny Tenthgrader makes a habit of using speed everyday, and his growing anger/violence problem have become more intense at home, Professor Invasive at Allupinyobusiness High might have some moral obligation to make sure lil' Johnny keeps that shit away from the rest of the alumni, at the very least.

Sure it's an extreme example, but still.

DireKitty
03-20-2011, 10:37 PM
There's another edge to that sword though, isn't there?

I mean, if Johnny Tenthgrader makes a habit of using speed everyday, and his growing anger/violence problem have become more intense at home, Professor Invasive at Allupinyobusiness High might have some moral obligation to make sure lil' Johnny keeps that shit away from the rest of the alumni, at the very least.

Sure it's an extreme example, but still.


What kind of ship do you want? (You can be on mine if you want, i'm cool with that... AS LONG AS YOU LIKE PIE)

The Seventh Sea
03-21-2011, 03:25 AM
Hmm, I suppose you can have that. But then i'll have to have this:

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/05/star_trek/image/starshipenterpriseamodel.jpg

We'll get doctors to deal with their damn chips. Pirate doctors.

Oh, Oh! Can I have the boat that the Lagoon Company uses?

amen, halluejuah and peanut butter =3