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Nine
02-15-2004, 06:42 AM
This year, Sakuracon's convention policies are very strict. I don't want to go into full detail about them, but if you go onto the Sakuracon website, you can read them. They're aiming this convention to be a "family friendly" event, but I do think they're going to far.

I for one think their masquerade rule of if you're not wearing a costume that isn't Japanese related, you get DISQUALIFIED, is too harsh. Last year, Sakuracon had skits with Harry Potter in them. Sure, a new cosplay cordinator means new rules, but what about those who don't go on to the message boards, or don't visit the website? Will the be threatened with a disqualifiaction for wearing a costume they most likely made and made a skit up just for the masquerade?

I for one don't think these rules will be as heavily as enforced, from last years experience. The cosplay masquerade had a rule that a skit had to be no more than 2 minutes long. Then, guess what? A group preforms a 5 minute skit and wins an award for that too. O_o I'm not ragging on the group for winning an award, they surely deserved it, but I don't think it was fair when they got to preform for 5 minutes when groups including mine had to strive to make our skit work under 2 minutes.

With the rules of trying to make this con a family-safe convention, I'm afraid that the con people might ask me to alter/edit/not wear some of my costumes, which makes me nervous to even bring them. -_-;;

*shrugs* The con policies are turning out to make this con a no-fun convention, but regardless of any rules, I'll obey them. It's not like I'll be spending my full stay in con areas. I will be in my hotel room w/ friends, and prolly going out to town for dinner with some etc. *shrugs*

sassy_lassy
02-15-2004, 03:17 PM
I think the family friendly rules are great or else me and my friends wouldn't be allowed to go. ^.^ Also, I must remind people that this is an *Anime* convention last time I checked, and Harry Potter is not anime (sorry to burst some people's bubbles) If people didn't read the rules, then they probably aren't too serious about it. So yeah...

Oh, altering costumes... hmmm :thumbsup:

Sailor Naboo
02-15-2004, 07:05 PM
I was Hermione Granger in the skit that won a judges award and we had a Harry Potter too. It was an anime based skit and last year that wasn't specifically against the rules. This year it is at Sakura. No big deal. Personally, I thought it was fun to take a character from "pop culture" and plop that character into 'anime land' to see how that charcter would react... obviously the audience screaming hysterically with laughter and cheers showed that they appriciated it. But sometimes at cons, it's not about what the audience loves, sometimes there are "anime purists" that are offended. I also think there might be a movement to do things like other cons do things.

The change to the rules that I thought was funny was the rule that specifically does not allow someone like a "Random Otaku #3" to be inserted into the skit. Let's see, what is the biggest fantasy of an anime fan (straight male)? How about being sucked into the world of their favorite show? Perhaps waking up one morning and finding out that you are Tenchi?

Agreed about the time limits and the group I was in went over! We could have tightened up a bit, but in viewing the video, so much of our problem was from the crowd reaction. Last year the rules didn't have a provision as to what to do when contestants went over and the judges weren't coached on what to do and no one was timing anyway. Totally agreed that groups that did their best to stay under should have been rewarded. But, if one is asked to be a judge and the judging form doesn't have a place for that, that isn't the where the finger should be pointing.

I hope skit based Cosplay like we still have up in the Pacific Northwest never goes away! It might even have to turn into two competitions, Anime Improv kind what Mark at Anime Alberta does and a Costume Competition with a pre-taped show like Anime Expo. To me, the great performaces like your group (that also got an award at Sakura) and Baka Zoku and that girl who did that great "Jesse" from Team Rocket monologue and some others from the years are like watching the best fan-fic come to life and pre-recorded cosplay skits are like watching really bad FanDubs or the kind of butchered anime dubs that most of us complain about. But then I tend to be opinionated about the subject.... :)

Nine
02-15-2004, 10:17 PM
Sailor Naboo - The Harry Potter skit your group preformed was excellent. I wasn't refering to that one because in fact the crowd was screaming and cheering so much, so you guys had to wait. ^^ I think that if a skit goes over that 2 minute mark because of something you have no control over, then that's fine. What is one going to do? Make their skit less funny so the crowd doesn't waste the time? haha.

My question is, that seeing this years cosplay has a strict rule on skit content, what if my group were to preform the skit we preformed at the last Sakuracon? Would we have gotten disqualified? This year I'm not worried about it, because I'm actually preforming a skit by myself, and I don't see why I'd get disqualified seeing it's just me Para Para dancing, but still I hope the con has that dress rehersal that they are trying to make time for, so I can know that my skit will be fine to preform.

topleka
02-16-2004, 03:18 PM
That's true. I am a little surprised by the "No Random Otaku #3" rule, and the Japanese-related only rule. Last con in Japan I saw pictures from had Harry Potter cosplayers. So does that make HP related to Japan now? ::is being facetious:: Not to mention, there was some dude dressed as Legolas, and he got a hall cosplay award, so I mean, yeah...

Nine, I doubt that you'll be disqualitfied because of your ::ahem:: revealing costumes, but then again, I think someone asked Zan-san to put on a shirt last year. >Can't Remember<

But the rules probably won't be too strictly enforced. Although I must admit, I'm sad that we're not allowed to have signs anymore.

Sailor Naboo
02-16-2004, 11:09 PM
Nine, I remember that you have always been on our side though all of us! Here's an interesting fact. In timing the skits, ours was longer than the "best of show" skit. It just didn't seem like it because of how entertained the crowd was.

The Sakura Rule from last year had a loop hole we took advantage of and that was that the skit had to be anime related. Harry showed up in "Anime Land" and wackiness happened. I had a small walk-on as Hermione, also in "Anime Land" because Harry couldn't remember how to translate Japanese ('Anime Tranlatus!').

Other cons have more specific rules that would not have allowed that. As long as I'm involved in cosplay at Kumori Con in Oregon, I'm sticking with Anime based skits and I don't care who wants to show up and visit as long as the skit is anime based and it entertains. I also insist on disclosure of the costume maker on the entry forms. Commisioned Costumes, no best costume prize. You or Someone else in attendance made the costume, the costume creator wins, Young person, Jr Craftsman (unless their work is as good as the adults), Young Person with adult help (Jr Up and comer). We did an "Honorary Best Costume of Show" for a woman who had won some important awards at Anime Expo and was feeling gracious about giving others a chance to win, but her costume was so great, we wanted to recognise it. When the con gets larger, I'll split it into more standard experience groups.

I don't understand the "No Lum" rule. It's not like Lum wears a thong. It's just a normal bathing suit. If people are going to be making ratings based on movie ratings and then use PG or PG-13 as an example, they should perhaps take a look at what they are using to compare. PG includes use of the famous S word that ends with it and PG-13 includes simulated sex. Nine, I do get the feeling that this year they will be taking the new rules seriously. I think you still would have been OK as Naga since you had a bodysuit under the costme, but if you didn't and it was this year, you'd be sent back to change...but then that's just a guess.

Then the Sign Rule. OK, they don't want 12-year-olds walking around with signs that say "glomps, $1" I can live with that. But I want to see the Muggle with the Kupo sign with Save? on the other! I "save my game" every year at Sakura and it will feel like something is missing without it.

To me, it seems like there must have been a brainstorming session based on anything that someone saw one person do that someone didn't like, and then a rule for everyone was based on what that one person did...but that's just my take on it.

topleka
02-16-2004, 11:29 PM
There's a discussion about the sign issue going at at the SakuCon boards right now. If you want to bring up other issues, I'm sure they'll listen to you.

Nine
02-17-2004, 10:58 AM
I won't have a problem with my masquerade costume this year, because of the rules of the 'family convention' I'm not crossplaying for the event. I will be wearing a male version of a costume a Para Para dancer named Miho wears in Para Para Paradise 7. That better be counted as Japanese. The outfit was worn by a japanese woman, in a video film and distributed in japan, about a dance that is very popluar in japan. *shrugs* I hope I have no problems with it.

topleka
02-17-2004, 07:37 PM
Oh, cool! ParaPara! I don't think there will be to much of a problem. Is crossplaying not family friendly? I plan on crossplaying most of the time, and most of it isn't overly revealing or anything, I don't think. ::ponders:: Well, I look forward to seeing you there. I haven't seen much PPP cosplay.

ssmitty
02-18-2004, 06:19 PM
It's the Great Debate: Non Anime Cosplay vs. Anime/Asian Cosplay. Since I already went through this on the Sak boards>non too nicely, either. I'll not bore you with my ranting, maybe.
Yes, I do agree that the rules this year seem stricter. That's because instead of just saying things and hoping things will happen, the con is trying to put its foot down. I myself have issues with the little to no clothing thing, but that mostly aesthetic (Man Faye up close and personal at AX03' was not my idea of a good time, for my eyes or my lunch) But I don't really care for non-convention related cosplay. Why? Because it's distracting. I like HP and LOR, etc. but there are several cons in our area that promote it. I'd prefer to see fans dressed as their fav characters/personalities from content conscious material. The gazillion Matrix cosplayers??? Don't even get me started....o_O
What I am curious to see is how the con staff is going to enforce rules. As the Fashion Show Coordinator, I won't allow costumes that don't fit into the rule category because this event is not skit-based like the Cosplay Masquerade. I also think the Con Staff is trying to promote cosplayers to up the bar on their costumes and bring down the house with funny skits while still having fun. Sure, people can wear just about whatever they want if they're not in any cosplay events, but everyone doesn't have to accept it, either. The cosplay guidelines are also pretty lax, especially compared to some older, larger cons. Some don't allow prop weapons at all.

Now, if it's just a cosplay/costume convention....that's a totally different story.

ssmitty
02-18-2004, 06:31 PM
Then the Sign Rule. OK, they don't want 12-year-olds walking around with signs that say "glomps, $1" I can live with that. But I want to see the Muggle with the Kupo sign with Save? on the other! I "save my game" every year at Sakura and it will feel like something is missing without it.

.
It seems they're trying to nip the sign issue in the bud. Funny thing is, last year, there wasn't suppose to be any signs...What the staff is trying to prevent is people basically whoring themselves (will glomp for $$$ to who knows what) especially when there are minors present. Nevertheless, I think they ought to just say "no signs pertaining to sexual or physical contact, ie yaoi, yuri, glomp, etc." It really should be a common sense thing.
To me, it seems like there must have been a brainstorming session based on anything that someone saw one person do that someone didn't like, and then a rule for everyone was based on what that one person did...but that's just my take on it. I think there wasn't one, and that's why the sign rules seem so haphazard, that and I think there are those in the staff that are trying to go out with a bang since they won't be able to return to the con.

isaacada1
02-20-2004, 06:36 PM
It seems they're trying to nip the sign issue in the bud. Funny thing is, last year, there wasn't suppose to be any signs...What the staff is trying to prevent is people basically whoring themselves (will glomp for $$$ to who knows what) especially when there are minors present. Nevertheless, I think they ought to just say "no signs pertaining to sexual or physical contact, ie yaoi, yuri, glomp, etc." It really should be a common sense thing. .

Sign Policy for Sakura-Con 2004
http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l=faqs/policies.html#signage

Also, Neko Con has a sign policy as well.
http://www.nekocon.org/policy.html


I think there wasn't one, and that's why the sign rules seem so haphazard, that and I think there are those in the staff that are trying to go out with a bang since they won't be able to return to the con..

I'm very disappointed that people chose to have this perception that the sign rule was put together haphazzardly, and people are trying to leave the convention with a bang.

ssmitty
02-20-2004, 06:55 PM
Sign Policy for Sakura-Con 2004
http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l=faqs/policies.html#signage

Also, Neko Con has a sign policy as well.
http://www.nekocon.org/policy.html

I'm very disappointed that people chose to have this perception that the sign rule was put together haphazzardly, and people are trying to leave the convention with a bang.
It's not so much the way staff is perceived but the way things are run. I understand that the staff is trying to allow a more democratic approach to processes and more freedom for attendees to have a say in con policy, yet at the same time there's this selective hearing that's going round. Hmm, it's hard to explain. Many past convention staffers have tired of the impolitic politics and have moved on. But at the same time the ones who have remained are forced to pick up the slack and keep it going. The good that do remain also are left in the dark. No one is saying "Praise me" but a little recognition of a volunteer's effort is greatly appreciated but not really given to many who give a large portion of their free time to running the con. It's still a volunteer hobby and people tend to not have Convention as their only pastime. Work, family, relationships, etc. have priority. I think many people get frustrated when they're shoved to the back and con cronies are petted and wooed. I, personally get really fed up with the High School mentality of many con staff. I did not join staff to listen to people tell others how much better they are than others and why they're so special, blablablabblab. It's really tiresome. Sometimes I want to yell at them to grow up and out of their parents' basement, literally and figuratively.
There's also this "let's be more mature" mentality which is fine, but some seem to use it as an excuse to single others out as scapegoats. You know, half truths and rumors abound. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll volunteer next year, nevertheless I intend to follow the con rules and fulfill my con responsibility. More and more I come to SAK to hang with friends and less with the con content itself.
I'm heartened that you (isaac) look to other cons as a resource for SAK, because there are those that think they do not need to seek out other cons for advice and feedback. I also think this "inhouse" thinking will eventually kill SAK by suffocating it and keeping it in a fishbowl. Eh, but what do I know about this. It's my own biased opinions, that why they're opinions not facts, merely my perception. I'm just trying to keep my little boat afloat, too.

isaacada1
02-20-2004, 07:33 PM
First off, I have to state that why are you posting your opinions about the convention not on the staff message board, but another message board? I just don't understand how posting personal opinions about how the convention is operating on an non convention communication forum helps the convention.

It's not so much the way staff is perceived but the way things are run. I understand that the staff is trying to allow a more democratic approach to processes and more freedom for attendees to have a say in con policy, yet at the same time there's this selective hearing that's going round. Hmm, it's hard to explain. .

I like hard "facts" about this. I deal with facts regarding issues. THe November general meeting is where a discussion of the policies was discussed for everyone and then voted in.


Many past convention staffers have tired of the impolitic politics and have moved on. But at the same time the ones who have remained are forced to pick up the slack and keep it going. The good that do remain also are left in the dark. .

Some staffers leave because they've put in their time, and have other opportunites to pursue. Some leave because they couldn't work with the staff because of personality issues. This happens to every convention. Good and bad is subjective to personal opinion. I don't wish to ask you to name names over a public site on this about who's good sthat's stayed and bad. I've tried to improve the convention through my elected position from previous years.


No one is saying "Praise me" but a little recognition of a volunteer's effort is greatly appreciated but not really given to many who give a large portion of their free time to running the con. It's still a volunteer hobby and people tend to not have Convention as their only pastime. Work, family, relationships, etc. have priority. I think many people get frustrated when they're shoved to the back and con cronies are petted and wooed.


I've given out recognition this year to staffers. It's up to the membership to elect people that will give out recognition. Conversely, membership voted the people running for the positions as a recognition of their abilities.


I, personally get really fed up with the High School mentality of many con staff. I did not join staff to listen to people tell others how much better they are than others and why they're so special, blablablabblab. It's really tiresome. Sometimes I want to yell at them to grow up and out of their parents' basement, literally and figuratively.
.

I have no idea who you're referring to. Unfortunately, with volunteer organizations, we're as good as the staff that we can assemble.


There's also this "let's be more mature" mentality which is fine, but some seem to use it as an excuse to single others out as scapegoats. You know, half truths and rumors abound.
.

Again, facts are the issue of the day. You're free to post your questions about this on the staff ml or staff forum.


Unfortunately, I don't think I'll volunteer next year, nevertheless I intend to follow the con rules and fulfill my con responsibility.
.

That is unfortunate you don't plan to return next year.


More and more I come to SAK to hang with friends and less with the con content itself.
.

Anime conventions have really changed in that respect. WHen I started to come, people wanted to come for the anime, now it's mostly just a place to meet people.


I'm heartened that you (isaac) look to other cons as a resource for SAK, because there are those that think they do not need to seek out other cons for advice and feedback.
.

I've researched conventions since I became a staffer in May 99. I've researched anime, comic, gaming, scifi, fantasy, etc.. events to see what would work best for the con. Many idea's and events we've done are a direct result of seeing what other cons do(Photo Booth - Otakon, Fashion Show - AX, Charity Auction AX, Artist Alley - General Anime Cons)


I also think this "inhouse" thinking will eventually kill SAK by suffocating it and keeping it in a fishbowl. Eh, but what do I know about this. It's my own biased opinions, that why they're opinions not facts, merely my perception. I'm just trying to keep my little boat afloat, too
.

I don't know about this inhouse thinking. The only inhouse thing I know that's been advocated is that all the staffers are based out the Pacific Northwest(Alberta, BC, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington). I don't understand the fishbowl comment.

You're free to post your opinions on the staff forums.

ssmitty
02-20-2004, 08:05 PM
This is for all to read and digest or throw up

Like yourself, I do post on the staff AND other boards. I've indeed tried to bring issues up, but to no availe(sp) As I mentioned before just opinions and hearsay. Also, when others share similar sentiments and wish to post I let them have their say first and let the people issue their grievances or suggestions or even praises.
Don't misunderstand. I know that many SAK people including yourself read and post to this boards.

This was not to point fingers, just a general feeling. I optimistically think that as SAK grows, the new gen. of staffers will have a more open outlook to this whole convention creation process and the vet staffers will have much to teach them. I'm well aware of the amount of time and work that goes into creating and maintaining this kind of event. I regularly participate in others though not involved in anime/manga, etc.
As for fishbowls, I was obviously speaking figuratively not physically. Being a PNW native, I'm aware of the geographic scope of participants.
You back your end of it and that's fine. You don't need to defend yourself to me. What and how you run your position is largely up to you. I do not assume to micromanage you or anyone else's reaction.
And I wouldn't continue to come the SAK every year if I hated it so much. I really love SAK that's why I decided to make a concerted effort to volunteer and have a positive impact on the con. Who knows what I will gain? New skills, ideas, friends, even frustrations. But I do it willingly and understanding the risks at hand.
At the same time, I'm certainly not going to Kiss Butt nor do I expect others to kiss mine. I respect the work that goes into this event, but I know I will not get along with everyone on a personal level. However, I intend to do so on a professional level. If you feel it's so important I will Post this on the staff board. If others wish to discuss this in more depth please PM or email me. Anyone who's read my posts know I'm pretty hardheaded about things.

Phantomgrift
04-29-2004, 09:31 AM
Apologies if this thread is to old... But I can help with the sign debate.

Last year, someone dressed as a giant Neko had a "Glomp me" sign and got mobbed...
End result was someone "glomped" the poor fellow right into a couple thousand dollars worth of electronic media. IE. tv's, video camera, etc.

And the main point behind are rules... Is that of 2001, we were suprised to get 2000+ people at the con, in the short period following that, we've reached the point to where we capped out this year at 4500.
We're not looking to fishbowl things...
We're looking to assist with the fact that we're dredfully understaffed at the moment in offset to the conventions growing popularity.

Dealers room alone, we ended up with some folks late and a no-show and that was stretched to begin with for us.
Not counting our frazzled security guys over at the Hilton.... <.< ... >.> even if the main guys slightly anal...
*Grin*

So by all means, dont walk off.. Voulenteer again next year, offer suggestions to whoever you end up working for.

And keep in mind that some folk are still getting used to a con in the northwest as such.

ClearTranquil
04-29-2004, 11:11 AM
I found a very strict "You must not have bare feet at the con" yet I saw someone with bare feet....

There was one rule I really hated. Being, 16, and obviously old enough to drive to the convention myslef. It says if you are 17 and under you need an adult at all times. Seriously when you're a teenager, who wants their parents to come to these thigns and hang off your side? And who has a parent that actually WANTS to go to these things? There wasn't anything at that convention that is rated anything worse than 16 up. I think they should change the rule to 14 and under or at LEAST 15 and under...

Phantomgrift
04-29-2004, 12:00 PM
Heh, you'd be suprised at the number of adults who like to come to cons.

As to the bare feet thing...

<.< .... >.>
(Conspiratorial whisper) "A lot of these are general guidelines, and if people behave, we dont mind... Screw up and we can use them to obscurely nail you for something."

Well, save that I would rather have something on my feet as the rate of nasty crap upon the ground is ... Brrr...

Karisu-sama
04-29-2004, 02:22 PM
Seriously when you're a teenager, who wants their parents to come to these thigns and hang off your side? And who has a parent that actually WANTS to go to these things?

*AHEM*. With all due respect... I go to cons. I've been going to cons for 25 years. And I have 2 kids whom I bring with me; one of them a teenager who team-cosplays with me. In fact, we were all set for Sakuracon this year, but other expenses intervened.

I'm sure the age rule has to do with liability issues.

ClearTranquil
04-29-2004, 03:04 PM
Ok....with SOME exceptions adults would like to go to cons. I just don't really seem to run into any adults living around me who would actually go. I say, "anime" they go, "huh?".

Hikaru Tsuki
04-29-2004, 06:10 PM
Lucky for me, almost all of my friends are older than me, and old enough for me to have them be my con guardians. If you know anyone 18 or older who is also anime, that person can be your new best friend. XD

mikazuki
04-29-2004, 07:34 PM
Ahh, just remember those of us who are Generation X (we're nearing our 30s now) are not like other adults (older then us). Many of us enjoy anime, j-pop/rock and so much more. We are different then the generation before us who may not know about anime and the like. ;) So not adults are the same. ;)

Karisu-sama
04-29-2004, 10:10 PM
Ahh, just remember those of us who are Generation X (we're nearing our 30s now) are not like other adults (older then us). Many of us enjoy anime, j-pop/rock and so much more. We are different then the generation before us who may not know about anime and the like. ;) So not adults are the same. ;)
The generation before you = the Baby Boom... but you missed the half-generation!

I know plenty of "Tweener" (= between Baby Boom and Gen X) anime fans - most, however, did the "marry later and have families later" deal, so they're stuck with juggling jobs and small children right now. They have no spare time to truck around to cons, although they like anime (and a lot of them are old-school fans), buy manga, and many also like j-pop/rock.

And a good number can "pass" for Gen-X. ;)

kiwi
04-29-2004, 10:19 PM
There was one rule I really hated. Being, 16, and obviously old enough to drive to the convention myslef. It says if you are 17 and under you need an adult at all times.

Allowing unsupervised minors would be a legal *nightmare* for Sakuracon. They would be legal responsible for whatever stupid things you did (whether or not your parent signed a waiver). Most people who are 16 or 17 have friends who are 18 and will be their "adult supervision" if they can't or don't want to bring their parents. It's not as if they require a parent to be there, just someone over 18. (You also can't book your own hotel room at 16, so it isn't just the con).