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JoeBoeing
11-14-2002, 05:45 PM
Hi all,

I don't know about you guys but I think there is a problem with masquerades and a large portion of the problem is the prizes.

I think (don't know for sure since I haven't competed) that some of the bitter jelousy comes from that cash prizes and other things awarded at con masquerades. What do you think?

I know myself if I had the chance to win an award or prize the only thing I'd take in a paper award and even that is unnecessary because I was there to entertain the fans, not get an award.

How would you feel if cons just gave the winners a paper award as a prize?

FRom,
Joe

P.S.
I put this here because I'm sure it will get rather heated.

Setsuki-chan
11-14-2002, 06:01 PM
I haven't participated in any Costume Contests yet, but yeah, I've known people who have cried at Conventions 'cause they didn't win an award they wanted to get. It's really sad, and I end up feeling bad for them because they have put so much time and effort into their costume, and most likely would have really enjoyed being acknowledged for it in the form of a cash/prize award.

Anyway, personally, Cosplaying for me really is about having fun, and entertaining the fans (and of course, being entertained by them, hehe). Just walking around the halls, getting your picture taken, and taking pictures of all the other beautiful costumes is enough fun in itself for me. ^o^ For the contests, I am almost leaning towards /not/ endorsing cash/prize awards for costumes and skits. But I must say, those awards are great incentives that motivate people to make better costumes/awesome skits. It really adds intensity to the entire Con (which can be an upsetting kind of intensity for some.)

No doubt, the costume contest definitely IS one of the biggest highlights of a Convention. It really is so much fun to sit and watch everybody sashay across the stage in their pretty costumes. I like the idea of a contest. To me, winning the title of "Best Costume" and winning a bunch of stuff with the title of "Best Costume" is about the same thing. I'm sure that most people are upset about not winning the title, as opposed to not winning the box of cool stuff.

A little irrelevant, but.... I've been told that sometimes, the same person with the same costume wins several of the same awards (Best Hall Costume, or something) for different Cons. I don't think this is a bad thing; if someone has any comments on that subject, I'd like to know whether or not what I've been told has any legitimacy. ^^;

JoeBoeing
11-14-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Setsuki-chan
A little irrelevant, but.... I've been told that sometimes, the same person with the same costume wins several of the same awards (Best Hall Costume, or something) for different Cons. I don't think this is a bad thing; if someone has any comments on that subject, I'd like to know whether or not what I've been told has any legitimacy. ^^;

Hi again,

I think that a cos-player should only be able to win one award per costume. If say, I won a Craftmanship award for my White Mage I don'y think that I should be up for that award in that costume again. Even if I'm at another con.

There are a lot of worthy costumes and they should get recognized. I don't think it's fair for a costume that has won before to win time after time.

FRom,
Joe

Setsuki-chan
11-14-2002, 06:13 PM
I do agree with you there! There are some really pretty costumes out there, and I think it's nice to recognize as many people as possible. The contests, I think, are all about having fun anyway. ^^ Sometimes, I know they even improvise some titles to acknowledge a certain costume that didn't fit into a certain category. Hehe! Those are sometimes very interesting...

Celine
11-14-2002, 07:17 PM
I'm sure that receiving cash or merchandise prizes is great... receiving trophies or ribbons or something like that is great... and if that's what you want for your hard work, go for it. I really don't care about the prize when I enter. I entered at AX this year for the experience of entering- and believe me, it was a ton of fun, so I'm going back next year. It's just a chance to show off for me.

Having won an award now, I can say that just knowing that my costume was appreciated was enough for me. I don't have anything to show for it, but that doesn't matter. I'm proud of my costume and regardless of whether or not I get a piece of paper, or ten thousand DVDs, or nothing at all, I'll still feel the same way.

Setsuki makes some excellent points about prizes being both a motivator and the cause of extreme competition. I'm sure we'll all have differing opinions on this- it's about why each individual enters a cosplay. For yourself, for the fans, for an award... ^_^

Dark Vision
11-14-2002, 08:19 PM
I've in one masquerade...animagic...and I did win an award.
But I understand why people cry or go into deep emotional depression. Well because it does take a lot out of you when you perform. Everyone wants to be rewarded for their efforts and when they're not... they wonder why too much. Thats comes with the territory of the masquerade. Everyone "usually" enjoys performing...but people like to be recognized too.

My group and I were really depressed during the awards ceromony. We knew what we did but everyone else get it? Of coarse the happy ending was we got the last award...damn why does best in show have to be last.... and we ended up fighting for that easily replicatable piece of paper...ignoring the meager prizes.

Doc Stampede
11-14-2002, 09:15 PM
For every single skit I've been in, I've tried to emphasize that we're playing for the audience. If the audience explodes in applause, then we've already won.

Applause means that the crowd in general enjoyed the skit - and in the end, most people who count themselves friends of the theater or performers are playing for the audience, not for any judges or prizes..

.... Now, does that mean that prizes should be gone? In my own opinion, no. I htink that prizes are a nice little thing for people to get. Its like finding that single nestle crunch bar at the bottom of your halloween candy bag - a nice little bonus if you've done particularly well.

Ultimately its all a matter of your perspective, and what you consider reward. Is there tension when you're waiting to hear who "won" the show? Sure. Is there a little bit of disappointment when you don't? That depends on what's important to you.

----

No one perspective is right. Some people do it for the prizes, and that's their right to do so. Some people do it for the audience, and some people do it just to get other people angry and shocked. (looks at certain cosplayers and grins.) -- Whatever the case may be, as long as you enjoy it and come off stage happy and not SNIPING at other people, more power to yua.

If however someone walks away from cosplay angry or tired.. well one has to ask : why did you do it? What do you get out of it, and is it worth it? Is it the prize, or is it the cosplayer that has something to deal with?

--------------------

Personal experience with prizes : the best time we had at Nekocon was when we all got to split up the Best in Show prize evenly and play consumer in the dealers room, guilt free. My own personal enjoyment came when we took the big bag of swag, put it all out, took photos and then distributed it like candy to the skit members. There's certainly alot of fun in that. Could the entire skit troupe have fallen to arguements over "oh well you should get this or that or I shoudl get this much?" Sure.

But we didn't let it devolve to that. That's part of the perspective thing. The person or people in "charge" of the skit have to make sure that it doesn't go that way.

anyway, I'm muttering on and going off track. Basicaly, I'm saying, every con is different, and whether or not prizes are a good thing falls square in the lap of the individual cosplayer. ^_^

Doc

Jibrille
11-14-2002, 11:06 PM
ok, this is sad and almost off topic, and i dont want to complain really, cause it was cool to win that time and stuff, but my prize was an entire anime series (sounds cool right?) EXCEPT FOR THE FIRST TAPE!
they gave me a whole series... without the first 2 eps... i was like "........" ;_;

ok, i am done.

MargauxZ
11-15-2002, 12:49 AM
I participate in masquerades, purely for audience enjoyment. If there is one person in the audience who apprecaites what I'm doing, then I am very happy.

I hate it when people get competitive and whine and bitch about the prizes. Not only is it annoying, it is ungreatful and quite rude to the people who are there for the RIGHT reason.

^_^ Keep on cosplaying!

Karisu-sama
11-16-2002, 01:29 AM
We won a T-shirt at Ani-Magic - I gave it to the kids. We won ribbons at Worldcon - they look cute up on the wall.

The thing for me is: did the audience like it? A certificate award is quite sufficient for me, if I happen to win anything from the judges (and that's nice on a wall too), - but did the AUDIENCE like it?? That's the real win. :) I just like to perform. :D :p

LionBoogy
11-16-2002, 04:00 AM
If you argue that prizes should be taken away at cosplay contests... then what about DDR/PPP contests? Console Gaming Contests? RPG Gaming Contests? Karaoke Contests? Anime Trivia Game Shows? Anime Art contests? Anime Music Video Contests? Modeling Contests? Fan-Fiction Contests? They ALL have prizes and ranking systems, too. You can't come and tell me those competitors don't put just as much emotional and physical heart and soul into those things as well as cosplay contests. You can't tell me it's different, because you know it's not. And if you say "well, cosplay is way better than those loser activities," then I'm sorry, but you may have a mental problem. :)

- Lionel

Tenjou
11-16-2002, 08:36 AM
When I go to shoujocon next year, I'm not paying all my savings to cry. I won't cry because I did not get an award. Maybe I'm too new to cosplay, but I just want to have fun with it. Once I start to cry over a little award, then I think I shouldn't cosplay anymore. I think that wouldn't make me look good, anyone who I was cosplaying with, whoever drove me threre, etc. And it would be realllllly bad if anyone snapped a picture of me crying.

T_T No way. I cosplay to cosplay. I don't cosplay to win fabulous prizes.

TyJILDown
11-16-2002, 12:52 PM
I just love being on stage, I entered only one masquerade so far and I got a good reaction from the crowd, I was nervous since it was my first time but it felt good even though I didn't win. People came up to me afterwards saying they were dissapointed I didn't win a prize. I'm assuming I was a "con favorite" among the fans. It was great just to be recognized and complimented for what I had done.

I know several people who are VERY talented who refuse to compete due to "con politics". They don't want to bother with that crap and after they explained I totally understand what they mean, but that's their decision.

Yesm prizes are nice, I cosplay for fun, the thrill of being able to become someone else who you can only dream of being for a day or so ^^;;

LionBoogy
11-16-2002, 05:58 PM
Yes, that's the way to go. My friend Melanie is an excellent cosplayer but she doesn't like competition and I can respect that. Goofy people like her and me just wanna stay goofy and not worry about the stress involved.

On the other hand, I have friends who LOVE the excitement of competition, the thrill, the spotlight, the glamour of it all, and the uncertainty of winning an award for recognition. It's a human individuality aspect you can't remove or we'd all be borgs. :)

Whether you like or don't like to enter, it's up to you. Just realize that once you accept to enter competition, you must also accept the fact that you are doing this to yourself.

- Lionel

engrish
11-16-2002, 10:49 PM
I like the cosplay competition at the Sakura/Cherry Blossom festival in San Francisco. It's pretty stress free. Basically you stand in front of three judges for less then 10 seconds, they ask you to turn around then they check you off the list. Afterwards you march in the parade then they give out prizes. Last time I competed they were pretty generous with the prizes. I got a prize even though I didn't win. ^_^

Hikaruchan
11-20-2002, 01:09 PM
A lot of times I don't compete at cons. Of the few times I have competed I have gotten a few small prizes, but never a certificate. I would actually rather have gotten a ribbon/certificate then some prize.

Doc Stampede
11-20-2002, 01:25 PM
To take a cynical point of view here, anything that can encourage people to bring cosplay to the "next level" and really push them to get some GOOD stuff out there is a good thing.

There was a point in time when I stopped going to the saturday masquerade. Now I usually go only if I'm participating in some way. Its sad really, but there was a point in time when I really couldn't stand to sit 2+ hours at the event anymore.

There are rays of hope tho, lately the quality of skits both at prized and non-prized events have gotten better. People are pushing themselves along various fronts, dramatic, comedic, etc.

I'm rambling on I guess, my viewpoint is mallable, and people know I'll pratter on at a pindrop. I've spent hours chattering away with some cosplay coordinators and participants on how maybe things could be improved in the convention masquerade circuit. Its a matter of interest since I staff at some cons too. :)

---

Anyway, point is, some people are driven by the competitive spirit. Prizes can help encourage this spirit even further. Say what we might about "the proper spirit of cosplay" and being in it for the "right" or "wrong" reasons - ultimately its a matter of two things..

1. Do you respect other people's reasons for cosplaying, whether they agree with yours or not?

2. If you're competitive and talk the talk, can you back it up? :)

Anyway.. and stuff. :)
Doc

(just posted to get email notification turned on.. I'm interested in where this conversation goes... ; )

Kenshin Ken
11-20-2002, 04:33 PM
SPeaking of the Cherry Blossom fesitval at Japan town ^^; I know the judges there.. sorta. ^^; They can be rather biased due to the many cospaly groups that come up for the event, and seeing that the judges are all friends with one another and the cosplay groups.. one can't get but to dfeel a bit cheated.

I cosplay for the fun of jsut..cosplaying really ^^; getting some attention, etc. It'd be nice to get one of those big prizes once in awhile ^^;; which I haven't gotton except on a raffle awhile ago.

I've never really " fully" participated on the masqurade stage... intentionally ^^;; but jsut veiwing on the way the awards were given, I say..the prize is nothing more than the cherry on top of a sundae. people have seen your costumes and your skit ^^ that alone is great. But to get a prize jsut calls for another round of applause and adding another wall decoration as part of an acheivment by the official judges.

Doc Stampede
11-20-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Kenshin Ken
SPeaking of the Cherry Blossom fesitval at Japan town ^^; I know the judges there.. sorta. ^^; They can be rather biased due to the many cospaly groups that come up for the event, and seeing that the judges are all friends with one another and the cosplay groups.. one can't get but to dfeel a bit cheated.

*sigh* Unfortunately, that's a very difficult perception to combat. The thought of whether or not judging is "fair" or not - that's something that is always a tricky question.

I've seen alot of situtations where ANY call by the judges will be seen as biased towards someone. To some degree, if you're in it to *WIN* - you'll often feel just slightly cheated. I am not saying it does not happen - in ANY competiton where judging is done by humans, there is the chance of it.

There will almost ALWAYS be the perception of unfair treatment. When I did my first skit, I had dozens of people all coming up to me going "Oh man, your skit was robbed, it should have won somthing, yadda yadda yadda!!!"

The problem is, for the most part, with MOST systems, judging is a subjective thing. There is only so much you can do to make it objective. In the end, someone will be happy, and someone will be disappointed if they allow themselves to be. If we start second guessing individual con's judging systems, there's no end to it.

I personally feel that its up to the con organizers to pick judges that they trust to be *as fair as possible*. The judges' thoughts need to remain behind closed doors - otherwise you'll rapidly run out of judges. Remember, they do it voluntarially and for fun too. Make it WORK and well.. thigs become unpleasant for everyone.

I'm not saying there should be zero oversight, if something outrageous happened, like bribing a judge or threats or something silly in a figure-skating sort of realm, then we should act.. but for the most part.. Leave the judges be. They've got a hard job too usually.

---

Go on stage, play, do your thing. If you're competing, do the best you fricken can, and then, let the chips fall where they may. At the end of the day, if you did your best, so be it, whatever the outcome. :)

Doc (someone gag me please, before moderators come and take my posting privledges away.. :)

nekochan
11-20-2002, 09:38 PM
prizes are nice, but the real fun is making, preparing, and showing off your costume ^^ all the hard work is worth it if people applaud for you, ask for your picture, or even just compliment you. prizes are an incentive to compete for those who love the spotlight and are determined to be the best they can be fairly.

John Booty
11-22-2002, 10:10 AM
I think that instead of positive reinforcement for the winners, there should just be negative reinforcement for the losers.

They should be beaten with pointy things, or maybe just blasted with fire hoses or something!

sailor-moon
11-22-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by LionBoogy
If you argue that prizes should be taken away at cosplay contests... then what about DDR/PPP contests? Console Gaming Contests? RPG Gaming Contests? Karaoke Contests? Anime Trivia Game Shows? Anime Art contests? Anime Music Video Contests? Modeling Contests? Fan-Fiction Contests? They ALL have prizes and ranking systems, too. You can't come and tell me those competitors don't put just as much emotional and physical heart and soul into those things as well as cosplay contests. You can't tell me it's different, because you know it's not. And if you say "well, cosplay is way better than those loser activities," then I'm sorry, but you may have a mental problem. :)

- Lionel

:::claps:::: nice! i agree with lionel! i think if you win, great, you get a prize, even better! i dont care much about the prizes, the winning part is great though^o^ :thumbsup: also, if someone won an award for a costume they made, and enter it again, so what? maybe there proud of there costume. theres nothing wrong with that, now if you excede this by wearing it over 4 times, then thats going a bit to far, 1time=great, 2nd time thats ok too, 3rd=not quit sure, 4= just to lazy to make a better costume, i think.

Usagi

katchoo
11-22-2002, 11:26 AM
I'm doing my first comp at AX, in the mini masq. Since everyone is a "novice" I'm sure that there won't be a lot of crying and such. I just want to try the competiting thing on a small scale and see how I do. It's more of a personal goal, than trying to win anything.

*thinks* although I guess it could get catty if people start accusing people of not being novices *shudders*

hmmm maybe should run away quickly.

Ranma Saotome
11-22-2002, 11:59 AM
I remember at Animazement 2000 that there was cash cosplay prizes. When Takocon announced their $1200 cash prize, I mean everyone got all up in arms about it. I mean there shouldn't be cash prizes, it'll turn into a friggin game show and we're all up $hit's creek.