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Harsh Reality
03-21-2004, 07:37 PM
Hey, since most of the cosplay groups around seem to be in the GTA (pretty far for most people from my area to go regularly) I was wondering if there was any serious existing Cosplay groups around the Tri-Cities - Guelph area (Guelph, Kitchener, Cambridge, Waterloo, etc) looking for group members or if there were any cosplayers who wanted to start a group oriented toward members from these areas. I'm from Guelph and was the guy in the red cape yesterday the the March TAC doing Domon Kasshu.

Anyway, if anyone's interested just reply here or IM me on MSN or AIM, as provided to the right.

~Konrad

Infini
03-22-2004, 04:13 AM
I think I saw you at TAC, if you were the only red-caped person there. I only made it for the last half hour as Inuyasha.

As far as I know there isn't a cosplay group in the Tri-cities area. It's a really good idea, but I think there are only a few of us around. Not enough to start something serious. I'd like to start something around this area, mainly for photo purposes though. :)

If you're really serious about starting one, count me in.

-Infini

Harsh Reality
03-22-2004, 07:21 AM
I think I saw you at TAC, if you were the only red-caped person there. I only made it for the last half hour as Inuyasha.

As far as I know there isn't a cosplay group in the Tri-cities area. It's a really good idea, but I think there are only a few of us around. Not enough to start something serious. I'd like to start something around this area, mainly for photo purposes though. :)

If you're really serious about starting one, count me in.

-Infini

Yeah, I'm serious about starting one...if we can find three-four or more people. Although, something for photo purposes would help also. It does seem like anywhere within 20 minutes of Kitchener is seriously deprived of cosplayers, however...Brantford, Hamilton, Mississauga all have many people while this threads been viewed like 20 times mostly by people in southern Ontario and I have just one reply.

Anyway, I'm going to give this thread a few days and see how it goes...but yeah, if all goes well you're in.

~Konrad

heki-chan
03-22-2004, 09:34 AM
There are two awesome ones that I know of in the area:

Minako's Shinigami Angel Cosplay
and ShadowStorm & Kitsune (hamilton really, but its close enough)

Saffi
03-22-2004, 09:53 AM
I'm in cambridge *grin* i was the cat from Broadway's Cats at Anime North, and at March TAC i was the Team Rocket member and the girl in the black bodysuit with the head of dreads.

It'd be cool to have a cosplay group around here who could get together for photo ops and stuff!

-saff

Harsh Reality
03-22-2004, 03:27 PM
There are two awesome ones that I know of in the area:

Minako's Shinigami Angel Cosplay
and ShadowStorm & Kitsune (hamilton really, but its close enough)

Where exactly is Shinigami Angel Cosplay? It didn't state their locale on their website.

Okay... so as of now we have two people who say they'd join if everything was organized:

- Saffi (Cambridge)
- Infini (Cambridge)
- HR (Guelph)

In the following text I will lay out how I believe a group covering so broad an area should be organized, and this is purely theoretical and open for debate. I think I'll name the system described here the "Bongard" cosplay group system, after my last name.

Okay, so you have 4-7 members who gather every week or two (this could vary depending on availability) and prepare for the following convention. The group would be a completely equal collective, meaning there would be no "official" leader and the group would hold votes regarding all major decisions. Yes, this means that I am not, nor do I claim to be, the group's leader. As far as more inconsequential decisions go, they would be decided over MSN or Phone and will be decided by those who choose to take an active position in the decision-making process.

The group would be relatively lineant regarding adding members prior to it's assembly. Votes would be held regarding the entry of all new members prior to the group's assembly, and all applications would have the right to a vote regardless of age, skill level, lingual skills, etc. save what members deem as "special cases." As one of the few cosplay groups in the region, it's only fair that we be lineant in the process of admitting new members. There would be no technical limitations regarding skill level, assumably members would be able to stay in good favor with the group as long as they apply themselves and adhere to obligations. Members from outside the Guelph-Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo area are always welcome to join as long as they are willing to commute an appropriate number of meetings and adhere to their obligations as members.

Meetings would be held based on what scheduling works for all members and where the majority of people are situated. In some cases, votes may be implented if there is a dispute over where to hold a given meeting. People's houses, parks, etc. are all ideal for meetings, although members do not neccesarily have an obligation to provide housing for meetings if they are not in an ideal scenario to do so. Photo sessions will be organized if deemed desirable by the members and cosplayers from anywhere are welcome to visit for those.

How serious the group takes each individual project is determined by the will of the group as a collective. However, since this is not a group hailed to be a "Master" group do not expect us to be initially competitive to win major awards. But you never know, things can happen.

The solo projects of individual members will be permitted 99% of the time, unless there is special conditions. However, as a member of the group you are expected to spend so much of your time in coordinated skits and showings with your group, which doesn't neccesarily have to be a lot.

The themes of all group costuming will be decided by a vote within the membership. However, if there is any legitimate major objections by ANY members another cosplay theme will be chosen.

It is currently undecided whether there will be group carpools or whether each member will be responsible individually for transportation to conventions. I would doubt there will be any group hotel rooms or anything of that nature, so don't quit your day job.

Unless otherwise decided by the group, I think it would be fair to adapt a casual close-mouth policy regarding upcoming projects. And finally, I would hope if everything gets together a complete website will be undertaken (possibly by me) following the organization of the inaugaral meeting.

If we can find enough members I would like to begin a group project by either Anime North or CNAnime, whichever is more convenient. The name of the group will be suggested upon and voted upon in the inaugaral meeting, if we can get this thing off it's feet.

And BTW Saffi, awesome Team Rocket costume.

Okay, does that sound good? If anyone has any suggestions or total reworking, don't hesitate to ask.

And please people, join! lol.

~Konrad

***EDIT: East&West Gaijin Oakville Cosplay Group have decided to adapt the 'cosplay group' system described above, named the "Bongard System." If anyone wants to adapt it for their group, just inform me and give me credit.***

lainey
03-22-2004, 04:43 PM
lol konrad maybe you should be a little more relaxed on the group thing?
it seems as if there are like a ton of rules that will scare people away lol

cosplay is meant to be fun and not a "job" or something so serious lol

Mage
03-22-2004, 04:49 PM
Err...*puts up hand*

Two things...First, the edit's important, so go ahead and use bigger text, but that text is GIGANTIC. O_O;;;

Second...

a self-proclaimed "Master" group like SMA

No one in SMA is proclaiming anything of the sort...we happen to have won Artisan-level awards...that's all. Numerous other people/groups on here have as well and I /think/ I can speak for everyone in saying the above could be taken negatively and I think everyone who's won major awards is quite interested in offering support to newer groups and inviduals. So "self-proclaimed "Master" group" is a rather erroneous statement, imho. ^^;;;

Harsh Reality
03-22-2004, 04:51 PM
lol konrad maybe you should be a little more relaxed on the group thing?
it seems as if there are like a ton of rules that will scare people away lol

cosplay is meant to be fun and not a "job" or something so serious lol

That huge document above seemed pretty firm, but the reality is if you read it closely you'll find the majority of it merely said that the people in the group will decide in it's ultimate direction, so those are just some guidelines, you could say. I didn't mean to scare anyone away, as this isn't an ultra-serious thing, I just tend to get into it.

Err...*puts up hand*

All the changes you've requested have been made. I apologize for the condescending comment toward SMA, it was not meant to be offensive.

***Fun Fact of the Day: If we can get a member base one of the key members of East&West Gaijin of Oakville has proposed a merger with us. This would give us a collective 7 members; leaving immediate room for a few more and it may establish us as one of the more prominent groups in the S. Ontario area.***

However, these are all merely options for something that may never fly. Any input from current volunteers or other members would be appreciated.

heki-chan
03-22-2004, 05:49 PM
However, since this is not a group hailed to be a "Master" group like SMA and other groups do not expect us to be initially competitive to win major awards.

Err..ya Mage already called on this...but err

WTF.

#1. I do not comprehend why you felt the need to make a reference to our group in YOUR (<--keyword) group's guideline

#2. Further more, you know nothing about us. Nor how we started.

#3. We are not "hailed" as ANYTHING. WTF. *EDIT* Self-Proclaimed? WTF??? I cant even comment on that. Just. Wtf.

#4. No, that remark was NOT condecending, it was unnecessary, and assumptative.

#5. Our group is not crazy competitive as your statement implies. This point goes hand-in-hand with point #2.

Perhaps it was a miswording, but I know that from myself and our group, we don't appreciate such comparison. And agian, it wasn't necessary.

If you wanted to state that your group is starting small, and is not openly competitive as of now, then just state it, why make references? why make assumptions?

~heki-chan

Harsh Reality
03-22-2004, 06:01 PM
Err..ya Mage already called on this...but err

WTF.

#1. I do not comprehend why you felt the need to make a reference to our group in YOUR (<--keyword) group's guideline

It was made addressing certain people who may review this terms, people who may strive to push the group to a level not everyone is willing to perform at neccesarily. I used SMA as a reference because I felt that you were an example of an experienced, skilled group, who aren't "crazy competitive" due to a dictatorial reign but moreover because of expertise.

#2. Further more, you know nothing about us. Nor how we started.

I wouldn't neccesarily jump to assumptions about what I know and don't know about SMA's procedures an accomplishments. I know enough to know you're skilled anyway; so I feel this is largely a mute point.

#3. We are not "hailed" as ANYTHING. WTF. *EDIT* Self-Proclaimed? WTF??? I cant even comment on that. Just. Wtf.

I took down "self-proclaimed" because I ultimately decided it was presumptious, and I will take down the reference entirely due to your comments. However, note "hailed" is a rather abstract term, and basically is saying people consider you masters. And I've heard more than one person say that, so believe me; they do.

#4. No, that remark was NOT condecending, it was unnecessary, and assumptative.

The second remark I made probably wasn't either of those, as elaborated on above. Unnecessary? I've always thought there was room for compliments IMHO, but I guess I'll adhere to your beliefs here.

#5. Our group is not crazy competitive as your statement implies. This point goes hand-in-hand with point #2.

As I pointed out to point #1, I merely meant your expertise has guided the group to much merit throughtout it's existence, and it is therefore competitive as an entity because of skill, not because of uber-controlling management or attitudes.

If you wanted to state that your group is starting small, and is not openly competitive as of now, then just state it, why make references? why make assumptions?

See my response to #1.

~Konrad

heki-chan
03-22-2004, 06:20 PM
Okay.
I'm just gonna keep this short. I loathe flame wars. And this is really starting to erk me.

Regarding the comment about our "procedures". We have none. We are not an established institution. We are a group of close friends who cosplay for fun. And no, I was not jumping to assumptions when I said that you don't exactly know us, because our lives are not online. My initial point was about *WHY* we cosplay and *HOW* we started. Not about any wacky procedures.

Saying someone is "self-proclaiming" or "hail" themselves as "superior" to others, is not in any way, whatsoever, a compliment.

So I'm just going to assume it was worded badly, and leave it at that.

If you did mean it as some type of compliment, then I thank you.

~hekikuu

Harsh Reality
03-22-2004, 07:49 PM
So I'm just going to assume it was worded badly, and leave it at that.

I honestly do believe you've put many words in my mouth in the last statement...but as this is becoming silly and I don't wish to further disturb this thread, we can leave it at that.

lainey
03-22-2004, 08:02 PM
the attacks were uncalled for on sma...they are a cosplay group of friends...lovely bunch *hugs heki*

i think a mod should really close this and delete it right away.

heki-chan
03-22-2004, 08:15 PM
Err. I did not put any words into your mouth. I quoted you directly.
In anycase I already wrote my opinion of it.
[hr]
Okay.
I'm just gonna keep this short. I loathe flame wars. And this is really starting to erk me.

Regarding the comment about our "procedures". We have none. We are not an established institution. We are a group of close friends who cosplay for fun. And no, I was not jumping to assumptions when I said that you don't exactly know us, because our lives are not online. My initial point was about *WHY* we cosplay and *HOW* we started. Not about any wacky procedures.

Saying someone is "self-proclaiming" or "hail" themselves as "superior" to others, is not in any way, whatsoever, a compliment.

So I'm just going to assume it was worded badly, and leave it at that.

If you did mean it as some type of compliment, then I thank you.

~hekikuu
__________________
The end.

Minakolabelle
03-22-2004, 08:26 PM
SAC is located in Kitchener sence that's where my friends and I pertty much live. But we're not accepting any new memebers sence it is in fact our group of friends. And there's all ready like 10 people I have to take care of ^^;

But word to the wise you'll want a group leader, espically if you plan to room with your cosplay group at cons. No matter how offten you try to be all equals you *have* to have one person running the show or work will *not* get done. It's best if you delegate rolls to every one.

And depending on people, weekly/biweekly meetings normally won't work. it's just too offten to do any thing even if you are working on cosutmes. You also have to take in to concideration that most of us are preparing to enter/all ready in college or university. Several of my group memebers are out of town in school and I don't expect them to come home for any thing. I even had one of my memebers give me her measurments online. weekly emails to check up on every one might be a better option.

After reading that it sounds like you are taking this cosplay thing a little too seriously. Cosplay is suppose to be *fun.* cosplay + set rules = problematic. My group *are* masters but we didn't get that from me barking out comands and demanding that my friends be where I want them when I want them. We got this far because we have fun doing what we do. If I need some thing fomr a memeber then I contact them and work some thing out with them for when I can meet them, where to meet them etc. Honestly my group only meets once before a con, and that's only the members that I have made costumes for. I do every thing via MSN and emailing. That way I can address all the problems that I may have on a personal/group level. Infact, I don't even collect the cash for the room untill the day of the con. It's just easier that way.

Cosplay is a hobby based on creating costumes. but from that you get egos. You have to learn to compermise with the egos because if you don't you will have ego's clashing and the group will fall appart. That's the main reaons why my group is still together. I may do 90% of the costuming work but I have the support from my friends that make up for that. If they have any free time then they call me and make plans to come help me if I'm not working. First and for most, before any "fame" that I may have (sence every one knows me not my group sence then tend to say from the cosplay scene), or any levels that we may have set for our selves, even the fact that we have finally recived master status after all that hard work, we are stil friends. And that is the most improtant part.

Harsh Reality
03-22-2004, 08:38 PM
But word to the wise you'll want a group leader, espically if you plan to room with your cosplay group at cons. No matter how offten you try to be all equals you *have* to have one person running the show or work will *not* get done. It's best if you delegate rolls to every one.

I'm not overly opposed to delegating roles to individuals, which may include a few people in charge of managing the group's procedures and attendance...I just see no need to have designated 'leaders,' that's all.

And depending on people, weekly/biweekly meetings normally won't work. it's just too offten to do any thing even if you are working on cosutmes. You also have to take in to concideration that most of us are preparing to enter/all ready in college or university. Several of my group memebers are out of town in school and I don't expect them to come home for any thing. I even had one of my memebers give me her measurments online. weekly emails to check up on every one might be a better option.

I did note this depended on scheduling, and in agreement with your comment it's not likely weekly to biweekly meetings will be organized.

After reading that it sounds like you are taking this cosplay thing a little too seriously. Cosplay is suppose to be *fun.* cosplay + set rules = problematic.

Those guidelines were merely suggestions, and are up for any form of debate. You'll also note if you read them that many of them are vague, merely leaving the decision to the will of the group.

Cosplay is a hobby based on creating costumes. but from that you get egos. You have to learn to compermise with the egos because if you don't you will have ego's clashing and the group will fall appart. That's the main reaons why my group is still together. I may do 90% of the costuming work but I have the support from my friends that make up for that. If they have any free time then they call me and make plans to come help me if I'm not working. First and for most, before any "fame" that I may have (sence every one knows me not my group sence then tend to say from the cosplay scene), or any levels that we may have set for our selves, even the fact that we have finally recived master status after all that hard work, we are stil friends. And that is the most improtant part.

I will remember to take this type of advice to heart. Thanks a bunch.

~Konrad

And for the record, our current list of [potential] members include:

- Konrad (Guelph)
- Saffi (Cambridge)
- Infini (Cambridge)
- Mike (Oakville)
- 3 others guys from E2W Gaijin (Oakville)

Infini
03-22-2004, 09:42 PM
I was thinking that a group somewhere in this area would be nice, but only really for pictures and stuff. I don't really want to be in anything too serious, since this already seems like it has become a stressful subject. I like to be relaxed about making costumes and going to conventions.

I think it would be neat to just have a group of people meeting to have photoshoots now and then, since getting good pictures of our costumes isn't easy for everyone, right? (Maybe I'm the only one with the photo problem.) :)

How about trying to organize a small photoshoot in this area (maybe riverside park, since it's easy to find) when the weather is a little nicer? It would be fun to just take some pictures and then maybe go for food. Before I came on this board I was mainly on Ford Escort forums, and we met at Riverside park for car photos, talked about our cars and stuff for a while, then went to eat. It was a lot of fun.

How does this sound? I know the 'winter photoshoot' didn't really go any further than talking about it, but maybe waiting for better weather will work out somehow.

-Infini

Harsh Reality
03-22-2004, 09:58 PM
I was thinking that a group somewhere in this area would be nice, but only really for pictures and stuff. I don't really want to be in anything too serious, since this already seems like it has become a stressful subject. I like to be relaxed about making costumes and going to conventions.

I think it would be neat to just have a group of people meeting to have photoshoots now and then, since getting good pictures of our costumes isn't easy for everyone, right? (Maybe I'm the only one with the photo problem.) :)

How about trying to organize a small photoshoot in this area (maybe riverside park, since it's easy to find) when the weather is a little nicer? It would be fun to just take some pictures and then maybe go for food. Before I came on this board I was mainly on Ford Escort forums, and we met at Riverside park for car photos, talked about our cars and stuff for a while, then went to eat. It was a lot of fun.

How does this sound? I know the 'winter photoshoot' didn't really go any further than talking about it, but maybe waiting for better weather will work out somehow.

-Infini

We're definitely willing to get together for photoshoots somewhere in the Tri-Cities area, or Riverside Park as you pointed out.

How involved you choose to be in all this is very much your choice, note however despite the intensity of the topic the formation of a group would entail no intense procedures. We're very much willing to let everyone move at their own pace and pursue side-projects to their heart's content.

Basically: we want to get a group of people in this area together to do photoshoots and maybe plan some skits and such together. No further committment is required, contrary to what you might've read in the stressful topic that as you pointed out, this has become.

I know some of the members are more interested in high-intensity practicing activities than others, but if you choose to join or affiliate with us, remember: it's more a pile of people hanging out and being goofballs than a competitive, systematic group.

~Konrad

Limeyaku
03-22-2004, 10:43 PM
this thread scares me for many reasons.

/random ranting/

cosplay is supposed to be fun. i agree entirely with minako. cosplay 'groups' + rules = problematic. it just doesn't work. cosplay is a hobby created and kept alive by fans because they enjoy it. no one likes rules. they'll only be broken which leads to problems.

i also agree that it does need a leader or nothing will get done. roles /are/ needed to make a group successful. it's not a 'group' effort if no one takes responsibility for certain things ( ie. has roles ). it's just a bunch of people on one site saying they're a group for easier recognition. thats what it seems like to me anyways.

from experience and from seeing it happen, you can't 'create' a group. it doesn't work to just come on here ( or anywhere ), ask people to join and expect it to work. cosplay groups take dedication and more importantly friendship. if you don't know who you're grouping with, i'd assume you may be in for some problems. why not try going to conventions first, meeting people, keeping in touch with them and if you find similar cosplay interests etc. THEN start a group.

a group is a group. to me, they share something in common in some way, shape or form ( not necessarily through cosplay means, but friendship/ideas/interests/costume series ) several individuals is several individuals.

and to butt in, which i know i dont need to but feel i want to, i dont think heki was putting words in your mouth. what you said /was/ rude. definately not the right way to write a recruiting post for your group. it doesnt do much for your image already and personally i wouldnt want to be in a group with a 'leader' like that. and i say leader because you've already gone and named the 'group' after yourself. <-- already a sign of bad group-ness. the name should be discussed and agreed on by all members once the group is formed. i know you said you're open to change, but i think its contradictory to have already named it then.

in closing, in my own insane, blunt opinion, you use too many big words and make cosplay sound like work, not fun. which is ironic since youre claiming its an 'informal' group, so to speak, with less intensity and competetiveness or whatever. i, personally, would not want to be in your group. you don't make it sound appealing at all. ='

this isnt a flame, btw.

*shrugs*

Minakolabelle
03-22-2004, 11:51 PM
Basically: we want to get a group of people in this area together to do photoshoots and maybe plan some skits and such together. No further committment is required, contrary to what you might've read in the stressful topic that as you pointed out, this has become.

I know some of the members are more interested in high-intensity practicing activities than others, but if you choose to join or affiliate with us, remember: it's more a pile of people hanging out and being goofballs than a competitive, systematic group.



Then *why* didn't you state that in the first place? what you want is *not* a cosplay group. a cosplay group is a group of people that collectively and exclusivly enter the masq together. Sure cosplay groups do colabporations with other groups, but they mostly enter masqs together, and room with each other.

What you want is more of a cosplay club for people in the KW area. not a cosplay group.

Saffi
03-23-2004, 12:36 AM
actually, I agree wholeheartedly with Infini... i wasn't planning on so many rules and guidelines and such...

I mean.. when I think cosplay group (and I'm new to this, so i may be off my rocker) i think a group of people who are friends, make costumes - sometimes in a theme, and essentially just hang out for the fun of it. They get together at Cons, photoshoots and for general hangouts

Most of this comes from a pseudo cosplay group from the cats community that I'm part of, based in Vancouver, BC called the VannyCATS. We don't have set meetings (mainly because I'm way out here, and some other members are based in the states) but our get togethers usually revolve around a holiday, a con, a show we go to see, or one or more of the distant members visiting BC... we don't have immense rules, and quite often our meeting itineraries aren't fully decided till 1 or 2 am of the day we're going to meet...

The way things are going with this group, it looks almost ready to blow up in all our faces..

I think i'll leave you guys to work on it, esspecially with me going to be moving up to Toronto in the next year or so for school..

I wish you guys good luck, and I'll see you around the cons. Hope you have fun, and remember that is the main point of all this....

ttyl

-saff (who realizes she was standing on a soap box, and therefore steps off it)

Chosuke
03-23-2004, 07:05 AM
I agree with all the others when I say a cosplay group cannot be 'made'
I've tried, I've failed.
I don't know anyone who has just recruited anyone off a website, and made a sucessful group or club for that.
If you really are serious about creating a group, don't just take names from an online cosplay community.
How do you even know these peoples tastes?
How they work?
What kind of people they are in general?

I doubt that if you gathered a group of strangers together that have maybe seen each other online once or twice, you would all be able to 'vote' smoothly on what to cosplay and what kind of skit you want to do.
A group is very difficult in the way people are different, and you never know how much unless you befriend them or get to know them in the first place.

if you really are so serious about gathering an 'informal' alliance of people, perhaps you should wait untill a con and meet people there.
At least you could see them face to face, because you learn a hell of a lot more speaking to someone directly then you can in a month online.

I also think naming SMA wasn't the best choice.
Even if it WAS spur-of-the-moment writing, you can't just walk around naming names and hoping they don't care and won't take it the wrong way.
The only one who will for sure not take it out of context is you.
I know if it had been me, I probably would of.

Harsh Reality
03-23-2004, 03:18 PM
and i say leader because you've already gone and named the 'group' after yourself. <-- already a sign of bad group-ness.

I don't feel a need to challenge most of the points you made because I consider them opinion, but actually you misread a little here. I named the system I abstractly invented for governing the group after myself, not the group.

Although I do agree, anyone who would name a group after themselves before it's formed would have to be pretty vain.

God, I feel like everything has started to fall apart...

I think I really may have gotten off on the wrong foot with people by flooding you all with so many ideas as to the organization of a group. I meant them to fairly non-linear and abstract guidelines, but perhaps it doesn't appear this way in the thread.

What I meant was to create a basis for some sort of cosplay 'alliance' within the Tri-Cities region, whether it be formal or not. I meant to leave all of this very much up to argument, and was in no way attempting to put rules around everything.

Also, I'm not rushed, so if this requires several cons to organize that's fine. As it seems as if the majority of people on cosplay.com from the Tri-Cities are generally oppose to the formation of any group involved with the coordination of skits and such, a 'cosplay club' that hosts photoshoots every couple months or w/e sounds wholey appropriate.

Lainey wisely said shortly after I posted my guideline ideas that I could potentially scare people off by creating too many rules. What I didn't mean to do was to create a tense and dictatorial environment, I just intended to through up a few ideas for discussion.

I may also have made myself look bad through all the banter going on in this thread. I apologize for that too.

But when people from that area reply to this post, try constructively laying out what you would be interested in as oppose to denying the ideas I might've proposed. I'm completely flexible on this issue, as I don't feel I'm doing this just for myself. And infact, I haven't decided anything, although I was hoping anyone potentially looking to collaborate would share their views on it (which in fairness, some of you have done).

So for the record, I wasn't trying to impose rules, control people or dictate what the group's approach would be. Some of you have replyed and asked why are their so many rules, well there doesn't have to be any, I was just brainstorming.

I really think It'd be nice to start over on this whole issue. So...assuming we were able to start a small group of 'affiliated' cosplayers within the Tri-Cities for photoshoots and such, (with no strong obligations on the members) who would be interested?

Limeyaku
03-23-2004, 04:48 PM
em...

>>>>>>>>>" I named the system I abstractly invented for governing the group after myself, not the group. "

coming on a messegeboard and saying " who within these cities wants to join " isn't really a system, and you didn't invent it. ^_^;; i still think it's silly to have named anything after yourself. that's like selfproclaiming you're the starter or inventor of something that probably has been done many, many times before.

>>>>>>>>>" God, I feel like everything has started to fall apart... "

First, there was nothing 'together' to fall apart. Second, you sound very upset. Not being a Biblethumper or anything but because people are sharing their opinions ( even if they are against you ) its no reason to get upset over it. This already goes to show that it isn't fun. and cosplay is supposed to be fun. Third, i think you've just proved our point that handpicked 'groups' don't work. =p

>>>>>>>>" Some of you have replyed and asked why are their so many rules, well there doesn't have to be any, I was just brainstorming. "

Brainstorming is usually suggestions and ideas. Your posts consisted only of " This will be, there will be, we will, if we make the group we would do this...etc" not " we could, maybe if we did this, I think... etc ". You were talking in a definite form that gave no room for expansion or change. "as long as they are willing to commute an appropriate number of meetings and adhere to their obligations as members." That sounds pretty demanding on its own.

>>>>>>>>> So...assuming we were able to start a small group of 'affiliated' cosplayers within the Tri-Cities for photoshoots and such, (with no strong obligations on the members) who would be interested?

if this is what you were trying to do, I find it kind of pointless from the start. Going to conventions you meet people. Those people have connections and those people have connections therefore most cosplayers in the 'Tri-Cities' are /already/ affiliated. I think what would make more sense for what you're trying to accomplish is a thread organizing a photoshoot.

A huge part of cosplaying is communication with others. Actually, I've spoken personally to everyone who's posted in here ( except for Infini, i think ) and if anything it seems like you're just trying to squish yourself into a community by making your own.

Again, my best advice would to just let it all go for now, go to a couple conventions, meet people, talk with them outside of conventions as well, and THEN go from there.

but yeah. i dont think you invented any 'system' nontheless did so successfully. and if you had, i dont think anyone would want to adapt it. and if all it is, the system, is a way of doing things ( which is what a system usually is, no? ) i don't think there should be need to 'credit' you.

and just saw this..

>>>>>>>> The solo projects of individual members will be permitted 99% of the time, unless there is special conditions

wtf? @_@ thats VERY un-grouply. cosplay is about doing what you want. solo projects being permitted '99% of the time' definately /is not/ good enough. cosplayers should be able to create what they want no matter what kind of 'group' theyre in, regardless of 'special conditions'.

MizuZero
03-23-2004, 05:51 PM
Generic post that adds nothing to a cosplay drama thread.

Mage
03-23-2004, 08:59 PM
Indeed.

I humbly put forth the suggestion that Konrad has seen the error of his ways, has tried to fix them and understands the point being made without his every post henceforth being taken apart.

Thus, it's time for "Nice try. Please play again." Meaning, the point of the thread (i.e. anyone in the area want to join a group with these basic principles) has been obscured, so perhaps now would be a good time to leave this thread be. Anyone who wants further info on the group, etc. can PM Harsh Reality as they can still read the guidelines at the beginning of the thread.

East&WestGaijin
03-23-2004, 10:19 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc5.jpg

Kenney: Heki-chan, limeyaku, and hr. Don't you think it's silly to derail a thread by doing all this fighting that was headed a fine direction until you three started up? IMHO this wasn't really anybody's business (except for maybe heki's if you consider hr's comment insulting...which I don't) except for the cosplayers of the waterloo area.

So can't we all just get along?

Limeyaku
03-23-2004, 11:26 PM
>>>>>>>> Heki-chan, limeyaku, and hr. Don't you think it's silly to derail a thread by doing all this fighting that was headed a fine direction until you three started up?

um, to put it simply, no.

we did not 'derail' this thread. whatshisface did that on his own by immaturely starting it off the way he did. as previously said by myself and many others, a huge part of cosplay is communication. it looks like what hr was intending was to make friends ( i think. ). surprise! we're beyond that point because we've been cosplaying for years and we have and are friends. lesson of the day: generally, what friends do, is stick up for eachother and back eachother up. *shrugs* thats what i've learned anyways.

also. correct me if im wrong, this thread was to initiate communication and 'groupings' between the 'tri-cities', no? how in the world is that only waterloo cosplayers' business? or did waterloo at sometime split into 3 cities...?

and the comment was insulting, 'IMHO'. pick up a dictionary and look up what self-proclaiming and 'hailed' mean, kiddies. oy.

another thing, if you think its no ones business and should be dropped, why are /you/ carrying it on? jumping right in to where it didnt concern you either, proves nothing and helps no one, dear. :)

to end this, ( maybe ) ditto mage. this thread is pointless now.

heki-chan
03-23-2004, 11:39 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc5.jpg

Kenney: Heki-chan, limeyaku, and hr. Don't you think it's silly to derail a thread by doing all this fighting that was headed a fine direction until you three started up? IMHO this wasn't really anybody's business (except for maybe heki's if you consider hr's comment insulting...which I don't) except for the cosplayers of the waterloo area.

So can't we all just get along?

Hi Kenney.

All this fighting? I have not spoken since the first page...until you addressed me directly here.

And the thread WAS ended, the discussion HAD ended with Mage's very courteous post, until you just started it up again ^_^

And I did not find it insulting, I found it unnecessary, misleading, exagerrated, and incorrect. Kthanks.

"So can't we all just get along?" --That's kinda funny, coming from you. ^_^

Okay, I'm gonna shutup now before someone smacks me ^____^

xiola
03-24-2004, 01:51 AM
there's lots of ppl in the k-w area who cosplay.

have you ever even been to the University of Waterloo anime club, ctrl-a? it's not the best example, but you'll find most of them there. the reason they're invisible is that most of them do it for fun, and don't have any interest in cosplaying that's not done as a fun thing with friends. good group cosplay requires hanging out almost exclusively with your group while you're at the con so that you can be seen together, and something that people don't mention, is that that can be a pain if you're not cosplaying with the friends you were originally going to be spending time with *anyway*.

then again, i am an antisocial bitch sometimes, and i'll admit it.

anyway, i guess my point, i've been cosplaying for at least 4 years, and while i have been a part of several group cosplays, i have never been an official member of any "group", although i frequently cosplay with a few different friends of people over and over. but since we all like choosing our OWN costumes and don't like to compromise too much, we all choose our own costumes and only congregate on the things we all agree on and feel like doing - you just find out what your friends are doing, and see if you want to join them. after this happens several times, there's probably something there. personally if i like something i just poke my friends repeatedly and try to get them into it. often it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

also, they don't all live near me. most of the people i cosplay with, i see on average, once a month to once every 4 months, but they are good friends so i talk to them frequently online. it's one of the things that annoys me the most about my cosplay, that i can't physically work on costumes while i'm hanging out with them, but that doesn't *stop* us, because we're doing what we want to do.

personally, making a call and trying to organize something like this just puts me in mind of fabricated pop bands... whereas most really good bands are the ones who come together as friends with simliar goals, and have some trial and error before finding a group that clicks and is willing to put enough effort in to satisfy the other members and get along... it's hard to come up with a whole band through the mail, and i think cosplay is sort of like that too.

IMO, the best and only good way to start a cosplay group, is this
a) find friends at cons, or anywhere that works for you, that are willing to cosplay, and that you get along with. they should be friends first and cosplayers second. it's like going to a bar specifically to find a girlfriend - you might find quick drunken sex, but chances are you're not going to find anythign that lasts. you can't go *looking*, and scare off everyone who comes along, you just have to be open to all opportunities, and be sincere about THEM.
b) find a series you all like and convince them to do a group
c) keep trying to cosplay with your friends until you find a core few of you who is the most interested in it and can plan things for each con that you want to be a "presence" at.

anyway i should go to bed...

Harsh Reality
03-24-2004, 03:13 PM
Thanks for sticking up for me and being one of the few people to actually act like sensible adults here, Kenney.

Limeyaku
03-24-2004, 03:31 PM
1. because he 'stuck up for you' that makes him a sensible adult? and did you feel you NEEDED sticking up for?

2. everyone here was acting as sensible adults. there was no sign of aything otherwise, other than that comment /you/ just made, my friend, which blatantly generalizes the better part of the rest of us as 'not sensible adults'. ironic since youre only 16, btw, and you're not technically an adult till 18 ( isnt it? ). perhaps you just don't know how to word things properly, or maybe you just LIKE starting up fights and getting other people riled up.

3. IMO, being a newb to the cosplay scene, you're not on a very good track to making friends, and /especially/ not to make a group.

also, i think its kind of sad the way you 'act like such a sensible adult' and attempt to use such an exaggerated extensive vocabulary and youreonly 16. youre only 16 once. stop trying to act high and mighty ( that's what you're coming off as, to me anwyays ) and o-so-responsible, loosen up and act your age ( which is usually carefree and fun and friendly, for a 16 yr old male [or female] am i wrong? )

also, i find it funny that you tried to organize a Tri-city 'group' at the young age of sixteen. Unless you DO have your license and a car available to you for transporation to and from all of your 'meetings', or have enough money to travel city-to-city on a regular basis, which may be different.

OOOOOOOONE last thing. If you were looking to start a group, you should've posted some of your own background work and knowledge. who would want to be in or be associated with a group whos 'creator' runs around cons in a red cape? on that topic...DO you have any sewing/cosplaying experience or knowledge, let alone enough to start and maintain a /group/ ?

Okok. im SO offtopic now.

but yeah. HAHAHA. this thread is so stupid, but i'll admit it, i can't stay out of arguments and debates once i'm in.

edit:: oh. just noticed, kenney didnt /even/ stick up for you. he said it was silly of heki, myself and yes, even you to have 'derailed' this thread. or does him shining a possibly negative light on us please you? ^_^;

East&WestGaijin
03-24-2004, 04:04 PM
And the thread WAS ended, the discussion HAD ended with Mage's very courteous post, until you just started it up again ^_^

Kenny: well, heki...i didn't think it was fair that so much bashing was going on at hr over so little, so I made a comment. I thought he might look bad if the instigators had the last word, if you know what i mean.

And I did not find it insulting, I found it unnecessary, misleading, exagerrated, and incorrect. Kthanks.

and really it was none of those, except for maybe unnecessary if you as hr said cannot take a compliment.

"So can't we all just get along?" --That's kinda funny, coming from you. ^_^

pardon me? i fail to get what you mean.

we did not 'derail' this thread. whatshisface did that on his own by immaturely starting it off the way he did. as previously said by myself and many others, a huge part of cosplay is communication. it looks like what hr was intending was to make friends ( i think. ). surprise! we're beyond that point because we've been cosplaying for years and we have and are friends. lesson of the day: generally, what friends do, is stick up for eachother and back eachother up. *shrugs* thats what i've learned anyways.

actually, he didnt really immaturely start it off at all. he was just trying to start a group and was saying that sma is very good so they have a minimum standard they like to perform at. and anyway, friends don't have to act overprotective and attack every person that they feel might've slighted their other friend.

also. correct me if im wrong, this thread was to initiate communication and 'groupings' between the 'tri-cities', no? how in the world is that only waterloo cosplayers' business? or did waterloo at sometime split into 3 cities...?

well, he did say the waterloo area. and seeing how the whole area around kitchener can be referred to as the waterloo area actually i could easily use either. this is just what grade 6 geography taught me.

and the comment was insulting, 'IMHO'. pick up a dictionary and look up what self-proclaiming and 'hailed' mean, kiddies. oy.

you should learn english before you attack people because of their wording. go read a book and you'll see how it's used, 'IMHO'.

another thing, if you think its no ones business and should be dropped, why are /you/ carrying it on? jumping right in to where it didnt concern you either, proves nothing and helps no one, dear.

i just found it really rude how offensive your being to a member who didn't even do anything wrong. just because hes new here doesnt mean you have to attack him for next to nothing. and like you, im here to defend my friend, hr.

everyone here was acting as sensible adults. there was no sign of aything otherwise, other than that comment /you/ just made, my friend, which blatantly generalizes the better part of the rest of us as 'not sensible adults'. ironic since youre only 16, btw, and you're not technically an adult till 18 ( isnt it? ). perhaps you just don't know how to word things properly, or maybe you just LIKE starting up fights and getting other people riled up.

i was taught that being mature was part of being an adult too, which might include not attacking ppl for pretty much nothing. maybe your less of an adult than he is.

also, i think its kind of sad the way you 'act like such a sensible adult' and attempt to use such an exaggerated extensive vocabulary and youreonly 16. youre only 16 once. stop trying to act high and mighty ( that's what you're coming off as, to me anwyays ) and o-so-responsible, loosen up and act your age ( which is usually carefree and fun and friendly, for a 16 yr old male [or female] am i wrong? )

some of us are smarter than others..

IMO, being a newb to the cosplay scene, you're not on a very good track to making friends, and /especially/ not to make a group.

he might be if you people didnt massacre him every time he spoke and left this thread alone.

OOOOOOOONE last thing. If you were looking to start a group, you should've posted some of your own background work and knowledge. who would want to be in or be associated with a group whos 'creator' runs around cons in a red cape? on that topic...DO you have any sewing/cosplaying experience or knowledge, let alone enough to start and maintain a /group/ ?

see, this is what really pisses me off. is it really your business to go around dictating to ppl the requirements of trying to start a group? he'll learn through trial and error, cut him some slack here.

oh. just noticed, kenney didnt /even/ stick up for you. he said it was silly of heki, myself and yes, even you to have 'derailed' this thread. or does him shining a possibly negative light on us please you? ^_^;

maybe, since hr's pretty much been polite and asked you to stop while youve been attacking him up until his last post.

why are you all such war mongers? youve already hijacked this thread and chased him away with your flames, just let him fricking be.

Limeyaku
03-24-2004, 04:33 PM
HAHAHHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAA!

hypocrisy entertains me. 'nuff said. ^_^

heki-chan
03-24-2004, 04:36 PM
Hey Kenney.

ERgh...u know I really would wish you boys would stop and read what I wrote earlier before repeating the same meaningless point to me over and over.

And thus I will reiterate what I have been saying thus far:
-From HR, yes I can agree that he may have perhaps intended it as a compliment--and I have already thanked him for it; However, Initially, it did not come off as a compliment. It came off as "unnecessary, misleading, exagerrated, and incorrect". My interpretation, as well as those of others, is not controllable. If we read something, we WILL have an instanteneous reaction to it--Hence my reply to him.

But again, if he had meant it as a compliment, I have ALREADY THANKED HIM (aka, the end of the arguement)
--------------------------------------
The remainder of the thread, if you actually read it all..., was infact, consisting mostly about the "guidelines".
It also contained advice from other cosplayers about various OTHER ways to create a cosplay group.

Hardly a flame war.
-------------------------------------
As for the line you didn't understand--that's okay. I will just PM you.

Kenney, I realize you are defending a friend, and thats really nice and swell of you, but please read what the opposition has stated thoroughly.

I have nothing against you or HarshReality.
Infact, I just spoke to the guy on MSN. But whatever.
---------------------------------------------

This thread is becoming meaningless, because people are not reading the previous posts and are just repeating themselves.

I will NOT reply to anything else. So if you wish to further address anything to me, then do so via Cosplay.com's PM-system, email, or MSN.

East&WestGaijin
03-24-2004, 05:12 PM
Kenney: Hmm. I guess I didn't read the post completley. My fault.
I agree with Heki. No more arguing, Let's all go in peace.

xiola
03-24-2004, 06:03 PM
THIS IS INSANE.

if anyone is still considering replying to that argument, sit down, shut up, and realize that ALL OF YOU ARE JUST OBSESSED WITH GETTING THE LAST WORD IN.

that's how these things go. that's how flame wars start. that's how threads turn into crap like this. now if you would sit back and look at all this, you would realize there is no way that ALL of you are possibly going to get the last word in. for that matter, there is very little chance that you are going to convince the other side that you're right and they're wrong. i mean really - how often have you ever convinced anyone of anything AFTER it turned into a messy long silly argument? it's only possible to convince people of things once you stop worrying about who comes out looking better.

once you realize this it makes avoiding flame wars so much easier.

but in this case, i don't think there is even anything worth convincing anybody OF. which just makes it all the more ridiculous and pointless.

sheesh.

EDIT:
"Kenney: Hmm. I guess I didn't read the post completley. My fault.
I agree with Heki. No more arguing, Let's all go in peace."

thanks for the most sensible thing that's been said in ages ;) if that was posted before i'd started writing this, i would have held off on posting it ^_~

lainey
03-24-2004, 06:49 PM
with that said...why hasn't this thread been closed yet?

are the mods afraid of canadians :D

Amy the Yu
03-24-2004, 07:15 PM
I'm a bit afraid to post a reply...tension scary...

Anyway, if you want tricity area cosplayers, you should try dropping by CTRL-A sometimes. Not all the members are from around here, but they might as well be, since they never miss a meeting and even I (who's a UW student) miss meetings.

I don't know how many CTRL-A members went to TAC last weekend, but I know that there was at least 8 of us that went and were cosplaying, and a 9th that was in a frilly gothic Lolita outfit (who cosplays as well). I might have missed someone in there though.

If anyone remember the Clamp Campus Detectives/Duklyon cosplayers or the Gai Team (I was Ten Ten) on Saturday, or Gaara and Sasuke on Sunday, that covers most of the people mentioned above that were cosplaying.

For CN, there's going to be a massive Princess Tutu cosplay group. I think we have like a dozen people now, cosplaying the various main characters and other not so main characters. I think all we're missing is an Ahiru in duck form.

And the entire group is just about all from the Tricity area (be it that they live/work here, go to school here, or go to school elsewhere but still have homes here).

A lot of people couldn't make it to TAC, or had to leave to soon to make it worth while. Now, if you're talking Anime North, a LOT of people from at least K-W are going to be there. Try checking out the Tea House of Maple (AN forum) or the CTRL-A forum if you want to find more cosplayers from here abouts.

If anyone organizes a photoshoot (or just wanna get together for random cosplaying), I'm totally up for that as long as it's before the end of exams (since I'll be off far away working during the summer term).

Kaijugal
03-24-2004, 07:26 PM
I'm asking admin to close this thread.

I think the summary here is;

1) Harsh Reality is looking for cosplayers to form a group with him in the Kitchener Waterloo area. HR, I'm sure anyone intrested will be happy to PM you for the details. Also, I'm sure you've learnt a valuable lesson on being careful what you post on a public forum.

Winnie is not a "self proclaimed master", she reached that level by the rules, so she had the right to feel offended by Harsh Reality's comment, wether it was an intended slight or not. I don't think that is something any of us would like to hear being said about ourselves.