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View Full Version : GCAF may have potential timing & funding problems?


Amy the Yu
01-13-2005, 02:48 AM
Despite the thread title, this is meerly an opinion post, mainly stating some MAJOR issues that GCAF will be facing as well as those it's probably already been approached about.

I'm not posting without reason, nor am I posting without doing my research first. I'm not coming at this from a random anime fan point of view. This is from an organizational stand point from someone who has had years of experience organizing events involving hundreds of people.

If anyone wants to argue or flame my post, go ahead, I will be sitting back and enjoying having something new to read and not bothering to reply unless I have new facts to support what I write.

To reiterate some old issues that have been brought up over and over in the past regarding flaws in the con set up:

1) Time. GCAF is on the same weekend as Toronto Trek and the weekend before NAF. Something like this would prove problematic for a much larger convention like Anime North. For a small starting out con like GCAF, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

2) Location. While I'm sure you'd like to think that having a convention outside of Toronto would attract a lot of fans who don't find Toronto very close to home, notice that a good number of attendees at cons like Anime North and CN Expo are in fact, Toronto or nearby residents.

For those further out, Toronto is by far an easier city to travel to and if they're going to spend so much money on travelling expenses, larger conventions work, small ones are just a waste of money. Even if the registration fee is low, the cost of hotel and plane/bus tickets will cause the total cost to soar well over $200-300 easily for the weekend (depending on how many people will be splitting hotel room costs). For those that reside in southern Ontario, the drive down is still often viewed as not worth it, since it is another several hours added to those who will be coming from beyond and even within Toronto.


A new but GIANT flaw that has just surfaced:

Registration cost vs Artist Alley:

When it was decided that pre-registration would cost $25 while Artist Alley registration would only be $10, the staff members were probably hoping to attract attendees of the artistic type to set up shop in the AA. HOWEVER, more likely, there will be many possible attendees who will think "hm...Artists' Alley costs less AND I get a guest badge. I should just buy the Artists' Alley pass, get in cheap, and just ditch the table"

Unless you can find a way to force artists to stay at their table for the majority of the convention (which is impossible unless you want to get into some nice legal issues here), this problem may prove very trouble-some.

Your target audience would be mainly teenagers, a group not well known for dealing well with moral issues.

Aside from the fact that you may very well end up with a half empty Artists' Alley because of unscrupulous convention goers who see nothing wrong with taking advantage of a discount, attendees who pay the proper full registration cost will find it very unfair.

And lastly, an opinion at best, backed up with a little fact. The aim for 1000 attendees is much too high for a new convention starting up in a rather remote location.

Tekkoshocon is the ONLY full convention in the entire state of Pennsylvania. A state that is home to Philadelphia, one of USA's LARGEST cities. Tekkoshocon's home in Pittsburgh is also a very large and well populated city.

In their first year (2003), they attracted 600 attendees. And this was when they were the ONLY anime convention in the state.

Now with their attendance count in mind, this was a convention that also didn't have any competition for other nearby conventions landing on the same week, or any time close.

IMHO, if GCAF was ever going to be successful or even break even someday, the timing and business logistics need to have a full replanning with some common sense in mind.

Maybe there was a reason why it was so hard to find a sponsor. If you presented a proposal that reflects how the convention is currently set up, any company that does it's research and would like to sposor a viable venture instead sponsoring a charity case for a group of kids and their hobby, they would have turned you down and moved elsewhere to spend their thousands.

Mekou
01-13-2005, 04:32 AM
>> 2) Location. While I'm sure you'd like to think that having a convention outside of Toronto would attract a lot of fans who don't find Toronto very close to home, notice that a good number of attendees at cons like Anime North and CN Expo are in fact, Toronto or nearby residents.

NAF has the same "problem". Though, even if we change our location next year we will still have it in the Durham region. It was a decison by most of the staff that there are too many events in Toronto so why not give other locations a chance?

Too the GCAF staffers - Even if everythign doesn't turn out as well as you hoped and even if GCAF "fails", don't give up. Learn from the mistakes and perhaps try again next year. Several people and even our own staff members were saying NAF was doomed to failure. In some ways it was a failure but at the same time it was a success. Many tears were shed that night. Tension ran high, fingers were pointed, lots of ranting and negative comments....and that was just from the staff. >_<

Consider yourselves lucky that you're getting flaws pointed out to you so early. You have plenty of time to fix things up.

Personally I think 3 days to too much for a first time con. One day was hard enough...
But good luck to you all anyway and I hope things will work out in the end.

~ Mekou, NAF co-masq director

Nagii
01-13-2005, 02:46 PM
1) Time. GCAF is on the same weekend as Toronto Trek and the weekend before NAF. Something like this would prove problematic for a much larger convention like Anime North. For a small starting out con like GCAF, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

Well The time factor, the reason it was 15-17 was because it would be the best time down here. I don't know if you know this reigon that well but there are loads of festivals that happen yearly from the Niagara Ribfest to Grape and Wine. It was suggested to us by the city itself, that it would be best,so we avoid problems with other huge events in this reigon. I know it's our first year. Yes we will be catorgised or whatever as a small con, but the way you term that is like this is a con in a 2 room place, in the middle of no where will only 10 people attending, like 5 staff people, no budget, no planning, no organization, with 7 events or contest,kinda club like and no advertising whatsoever.

When truely it's a 78 staffed con, 250 events in a 30 funt room facuity, who is half way to our goal of 10,000 (..for people who can't count that's 5,000). I know it's abit concerning, but it's going very well, it's comming together nicely for it's first year. Now for the Ttrek thing, none of us went to it last year, and it wasn't on their website so it was kinda a blind eye. I also have no idea if NAF had their date before, since it was posted on their website until a month ago,so that was a blind eye as well.

2) Location. While I'm sure you'd like to think that having a convention outside of Toronto would attract a lot of fans who don't find Toronto very close to home, notice that a good number of attendees at cons like Anime North and CN Expo are in fact, Toronto or nearby residents.

That's the problem. People who live here don't attend AN or CN anime because of travel. This is event is like reaching out to anime stricken fans who want to attend an anime/japanese popculture event that isn't like 2-3 hours away. Umm I would also like to point our...I DON"T MEAN NIAGARA FALLS...it seems people who live in Toronto email me and tell me how Niagara is crap and that it's just alittle city attached to it's American counterpart. For those who haven't figured it out Niagara is what this reigon is called..via Niagara Reigon of the lower area of the Golden Horseshoe which I might also liked to add is a HUGE FRICKEN popluarlated area....ahem.

For those further out, Toronto is by far an easier city to travel to and if they're going to spend so much money on travelling expenses, larger conventions work, small ones are just a waste of money. Even if the registration fee is low, the cost of hotel and plane/bus tickets will cause the total cost to soar well over $200-300 easily for the weekend (depending on how many people will be splitting hotel room costs). For those that reside in southern Ontario, the drive down is still often viewed as not worth it, since it is another several hours added to those who will be coming from beyond and even within Toronto.

I disagree with you completely.There are events where it is the case, but I assure you GCAf will not be a waste of time or money. Our event is done so there is something for everyone and keeps people busy. Yeah the cost is low, not only in reg but hotel and food as well. Uh drive down in southern Ontario not worth it, Toronto is part of that area too, I might as well add. To tell you the truth, I've travelled all over Ontario from as far as Pelee Island to at least Ottawa. It was never a waste, cause there is so much to learn and see. You really shouldn't put other areas in Toronto's shadow. Trust me when you go to Toronto as a tourist alot, it's starting to loose it's whole flashy greatness.

When it was decided that pre-registration would cost $25 while Artist Alley registration would only be $10, the staff members were probably hoping to attract attendees of the artistic type to set up shop in the AA. HOWEVER, more likely, there will be many possible attendees who will think "hm...Artists' Alley costs less AND I get a guest badge. I should just buy the Artists' Alley pass, get in cheap, and just ditch the table"

Heh.Heh.Heh. The funny thing is this topic came up 2 days ago. When we first decided the price, it was a attract the artistic youth thing. We were worried that people will see the price high ($35 pre-reg and art galleria) and now even try to be apart. At the moment..that thing is up in the air. I kinda worried about pushing it up there, though some of the staff have mentioned it. If it changes..it will be changed by the end of Jan or early Feb.


Your target audience would be mainly teenagers, a group not well known for dealing well with moral issues.

Tell me about it -.-; that was the reason for such a low price.

And lastly, an opinion at best, backed up with a little fact. The aim for 1000 attendees is much too high for a new convention starting up in a rather remote location.

Maybe there was a reason why it was so hard to find a sponsor. If you presented a proposal that reflects how the convention is currently set up, any company that does it's research and would like to sposor a viable venture instead sponsoring a charity case for a group of kids and their hobby, they would have turned you down and moved elsewhere to spend their thousands.

We are not having sponsor issues anymore. As you can tell in the post upper, we already are half way and have only been doing this for 6months. You got to say, that ain't bad.

Even if everythign doesn't turn out as well as you hoped and even if GCAF "fails", don't give up. Learn from the mistakes and perhaps try again next year. Several people and even our own staff members were saying NAF was doomed to failure. In some ways it was a failure but at the same time it was a success. Many tears were shed that night. Tension ran high, fingers were pointed, lots of ranting and negative comments....and that was just from the staff. >_<

That is what the whole city is telling us. They think this is a waste of our time, that were over our heads and this type of event isn't popluar. It's fun, proving them wrong though and were getting a grant to have Japanese guests from the Japan-Canada fund, so were good as set.

Thanks for your suggests, points and what not. Just next time, Amy, don't make your post sound so angry.

Sarcasm-hime
01-13-2005, 03:22 PM
I would agree that expecting 1000 people is perhaps a bit much. Most cons are VERY small in their first year and slowly build up steam. So be prepared for possibly a small turnout.

Amy the Yu
01-13-2005, 03:34 PM
Well The time factor, the reason it was 15-17 was because it would be the best time down here. I don't know if you know this reigon that well but there are loads of festivals that happen yearly from the Niagara Ribfest to Grape and Wine. It was suggested to us by the city itself, that it would be best,so we avoid problems with other huge events in this reigon. I know it's our first year. Yes we will be catorgised or whatever as a small con, but the way you term that is like this is a con in a 2 room place, in the middle of no where will only 10 people attending, like 5 staff people, no budget, no planning, no organization, with 7 events or contest,kinda club like and no advertising whatsoever.

When truely it's a 78 staffed con, 250 events in a 30 funt room facuity, who is half way to our goal of 10,000 (..for people who can't count that's 5,000). I know it's abit concerning, but it's going very well, it's comming together nicely for it's first year. Now for the Ttrek thing, none of us went to it last year, and it wasn't on their website so it was kinda a blind eye. I also have no idea if NAF had their date before, since it was posted on their website until a month ago,so that was a blind eye as well.

I never made it sound like you were nothing. A small convention is simply that, on the smaller end of the spectrum for attendance.

With the largest anime conventions in North America having over 20 000 in attendance and still growing, even conventions with over 1000 or 2000 attendees are considered quite small by comparison. Anime USA 6 this past October had 2340 attendees plus a barrage of a few hundred more in staff, dealers, panelists, guests and press.

One of my close friends is on the Exec. Con. Com. as the logistic co-ordinator for Anime USA, and he told me himself that Anime USA was considered one of the smallest conventions on the American east coast, even though Otakon is the only east coast anime convention that outcompetes both Anime North as well as CN Anime.

With Anime North ranking 4th largest convention in North America, and CN Anime (only the anime section) coming in at 8th, surely, it's undenyable that a convention with an estimated attendance of 1000 would be considered a "small convention" in comparison to others.

On the reverse side, not all anime clubs are small. The anime club here at my own university has well over 200 regular members. We have contests and seminars and even the occasional dealer. 200 doesn't seem like much, but many conventions had about as many, if not fewer, in attendance in their first year.

About convention dates. It is regular practice for events to co-ordinate dates with each other to ensure that no overlaps occur. Toronto Trek has been running for many years now and they've typically been in mid-July. They surely did not decide the date they would take place on the morning of the day that the website was updated with next year's information and can be easily contacted directly or through their mailing list.

That's the problem. People who live here don't attend AN or CN anime because of travel. This is event is like reaching out to anime stricken fans who want to attend an anime/japanese popculture event that isn't like 2-3 hours away. Umm I would also like to point our...I DON"T MEAN NIAGARA FALLS...it seems people who live in Toronto email me and tell me how Niagara is crap and that it's just alittle city attached to it's American counterpart. For those who haven't figured it out Niagara is what this reigon is called..via Niagara Reigon of the lower area of the Golden Horseshoe which I might also liked to add is a HUGE FRICKEN popluarlated area....ahem.

A city or region with a population of 500 000 really is not very large. Kitchener-Waterloo is considered a very small community with a population of over 400 000. The only reason that most people have heard of the city at all is due to the fact that it houses two of Canada's universities, University of Waterloo and Wilfred Laurier University. It is also home to the second largest Oktoberfest celebration each in the world, only beaten by the one in Munich, Germany.

Within city limits, Toronto has a population of almost 5 000 000 according to the 2001 census. If we treat any possible increase since then as negligable, that is still 10 times more populated than the region GCAF will be held in, and we're neglecting the other large cities surrounding Toronto's city limits such as Mississauga, Markham and many more.

We are not having sponsor issues anymore. As you can tell in the post upper, we already are half way and have only been doing this for 6months. You got to say, that ain't bad.

6 months for $5000 would be under minimum wage for a full time job. A group of approximately 100 students were able to raise over $3500 in the course of a month to donate to charity at my high school. The only expense involved, was about $30 for juice and bottled water.

I'd also like to remind you that as you search for more sponsors, finding sponsors becomes MORE difficult as you're exhausting your resources. Just because you were able to raise $5000 in the first 6 months of planning, doesn't mean that you'll be sure to raise another $5000 in the next 6 months.

Perhaps there aren't as many resources in a less populated area than Toronto, but with a year to plan, and only half the money obtained at the half way point, the venture still appears less than stable to me. Of course, that was just my opinion without any factual support.

Thanks for your suggests, points and what not. Just next time, Amy, don't make your post sound so angry.

My post was completely non-subjective and everything was stated as simply as possible without any personal bias (except where noted). The only way to make it to sound angry would be to add the negative undertones to it yourself.

I have posted early on in the process of GCAF becoming a reality, stating how I support you and think it's good for the fans to take something into their own hands, instead of sitting back and complaining. My support has not wavered. I am meerly pointing out some possible issues that might cause trouble further down the road.

Nagii
01-13-2005, 03:56 PM
About convention dates. It is regular practice for events to co-ordinate dates with each other to ensure that no overlaps occur. Toronto Trek has been running for many years now and they've typically been during mid-July. They surely did not decide the date they would take place on the morning of the day that the website was updated with next year's information.

It seems it's getting harder and harder to even contact Convention staff from other cons. They just don't reply. I kinda do not mind the overlapping. I was told by someone on this forum earlier in the con year that I shouldn't be. So I'm not.

A city or region with a population of 500 000 really is not very large. Kitchener-Waterloo is considered a very small community with a population of over 400 000. The only reason that most people have heard of the city at all is due to the fact that it houses two of Canada's universities, University of Waterloo and Wilfred Laurier University. It is also home to the second largest Oktoberfest celebration each fall in the world, only beaten by the one in Munich, Germany.

It's still alot larger then people emailing me saying it is. Toronto I kinda find annoying. Yeah so it's larger, it really doesn't mean a thing. I wasn't trying to appeal to Toronto people anyways. Toronto has alot of anime related stuff that fans can get ahold of, unlike here where you can't. I'm trying to benefit anime fans here who CAN'T just go down the street to an anime store or import store.

People who live in Toronto wouldn't understand, they wouldn't inless they live here.

6 months for $5000 would be under minimum wage for a full time job. A group of approximately 100 students were able to raise over $3500 in the course of a month to donate to charity at my high school. The only expense involved, was about $30 for juice and bottled water.

I don't see the point. We only need 10,000 dollars. We have 5000. We don't need anymore then that amount.

Perhaps there aren't as many resources in a less populated area than Toronto, but with a year to plan, and only half the money obtained at the half way point, the venture still appears less than stable to me. Of course, that was just my opinion without any factual support.

We are very organized, we are getting alot help from around the country and in the states and you know I think judging now is really early. Since you won't be there, you have no way in knowing, I think it won't fail, yeah if we don't get the amount of people attending as we want, there is still money going to the charity, were still having fun, were still gonna plan next years and you know. I speak for everyone when I say, no regrets. It's a big feat, a big responsibitly that we did.

It makes me happy to know that no matter how much people say it wouldn't work, were going to do it and were gonna do it to the best of our ability. We are creating something for others to enjoy without getting anything in return. It's an experience I'm glad i'm not gonna quit on.

Traxbaby
01-13-2005, 07:47 PM
I am gonna flame this cause I think it's unfair and completely out of bounds. This topic should either be renamed or deleted. It is creul, judgemental and I really think it's someone trying to stabbage.

I think your all a bunch of bullies and I think your trying to ruin this con for your own personal reasons. You complain and whine about people not comming but putting topics like this one will only discourage people from attending! Here we have people who are working very hard to make something they really won't to happen. Your judgement on everything will make their hard work be in vain! Shame on all of you, seriously. I think you should judge after the event not 7 months before!

SHAME! -shakes fingers and pickets.-

RENAME THIS FORUM OR DELETE IT!

Kaijugal
01-13-2005, 09:08 PM
It seems it's getting harder and harder to even contact Convention staff from other cons. They just don't reply.


Is there a specific example that makes you say this?

In my personal experience I never have trouble contacting people from any local con other than SFX.

I myself contacted members of your staff via your website to offer input and help regarding your masquerade. Your people were welcome to ask me questions about any of the other local conventions I serve as either exec or concom on at any time.

archangeli
01-13-2005, 10:45 PM
Now for the Ttrek thing, none of us went to it last year, and it wasn't on their website so it was kinda a blind eye.

Actually, TT has had their dates for 2005 finalized for a long time now. Even last summer (July 04) they had settled the dates and were advertising for it. This actually surprised me becaused few conventions announce their dates that far ahead, although I've noticed that more conventions are trying to so that attendees can plan accordingly.

Personally, I know that there is a great anime fan-base in the Golden Horseshoe area. Last March toured with one of my choirs and one of the concerts we performed was at Centennial Secondary School in Welland. (Welland is about halfway between St. Catherine's and Niagara-on-the-Lake) ... anyhow, my point... i had a chance to explore the school a bit and there was anime fanart all over the place - it was actually quite comforting :)

Nagii, I commend you and your team for your efforts and I wish you all the best for a successful convention.

Kurai Deux
01-13-2005, 11:57 PM
It's still alot larger then people emailing me saying it is. Toronto I kinda find annoying.Yeah so it's larger, it really doesn't mean a thing. I wasn't trying to appeal to Toronto people anyways. Toronto has alot of anime related stuff that fans can get ahold of, unlike here where you can't. I'm trying to benefit anime fans here who CAN'T just go down the street to an anime store or import store.

People who live in Toronto wouldn't understand, they wouldn't inless they live here.

Well, that's not very nice :( I'm not sure if it's how you meant it, but that came off just a wee bit unwelcoming. -_-; I think generalizing about Toronto and Torontonians is just as offensive, and not to mention irritating, to the people who live in T.O as it is when people make untrue implications about St.Catharines (about its size or what have you).

And I'd just like to say, I live in Toronto and the only thing I can get if I go down my street is some fast food and a haircut...oh and of course, we cannot forget the wonders of the modern convenience store =P But really, thatís about it. Getting to an anime store of any sort, even one of the small and cramped variety, is over an hours travel for me.

I heard a lot of good things about this con when it was first announced and I agree that getting a con started, like you have, is indeed a big feat (my congratulations^^). There are a lot of people, undoubtedly, working very hard and lovingly on this project. And despite how near and dear it is to your hearts, you really should listen to (and not necessarily pick apart) all the feedback youíre getting, the good and the bad alike because ultimately, the fans are the ones that will decide if the con is a success or not.^^;;

Mekou
01-14-2005, 12:42 AM
>> I think your all a bunch of bullies and I think your trying to ruin this con for your own personal reasons.

What reasons would people have to ruin it?

>> You complain and whine about people not comming but putting topics like this one will only discourage people from attending!

I don't think I've ever heard anyone whine about "people not coming." What exactly are you refering to?

>> Shame on all of you, seriously. I think you should judge after the event not 7 months before!

The best time to point out flaws is 7 months before the event. That gives plenty of time to change things if needed.

>> RENAME THIS FORUM OR DELETE IT!

A few months before NAF last year we had a tiny group flame us in e-mails and one person flame us in our forum. But we didn't run away. We didn't just delete the comments and pretend that we were perfect already. No. We took all those comments and we tried to fix what we could. That's what GCAF should do/is doing. It's impossible to make EVERYONE satisfied but by listening to what possible attendees have to say, you can at least get close to satisfying everyone.

I have total faith that GCAF will be a good con. I'm not flaming them or judging them badly. Kurai said it best.

And despite how near and dear it is to your hearts, you really should listen to (and not necessarily pick apart) all the feedback youíre getting, the good and the bad alike because ultimately, the fans are the ones that will decide if the con is a success or not.^^;;

rox_my_sox
01-14-2005, 03:01 AM
ok, when I read this, I was quite upset about some of the things said so I'm going to put my 2 cents in and I'm not out to get anyone and I'm not TRYING to be rude but it's my opinion and it might come off one sided.


this is a disaster waiting to happen. (from the first post)

I never made it sound like you were nothing. (from another post)
I think that you proved your self wrong there.
Amy_the_Yu ok well I just think that your being quite rude about the topic and it sounds like your almost attacking Nagii about this convention O_O;; not cool. They are putting alot of hard work into this for anime fans and yes you seem to be...kinda trying to help by telling them problems that could happen but there is alot nicer ways to say it.To me some of this sounds like your complaining that it's not in toronto which I'm sure is closer to you and makes you have to travel to go to it. Think about the people who live where the convention is being held, how they are probaly not happy that they had to go all the way to toronto to get to conventions...at LEAST AN and CN are in toronto....it's up to them where they locate the convention. Are you going to this convention? just wundeing, because if you are..then why are you being so rude to one of the people making it happen, and if your not going...then why do you care?

Nagii- I'd like to thank you and everyone else working on then convention who are making it happen for anime fans who are going, including me.

"People who live in Toronto wouldn't understand, they wouldn't inless they live here."(posted by Nagii)
Kurai_deux- I THINK Nagii ment that there are alot of conventions in Toronto and people who live there dont have to comute very far, unlike like people who live quite far from the conventions like my self. I don't think it was supposed to be offensive.

I agree with Traxbaby!!

Just to end it, I know ALOT of people who go to Toronto conventions who plan on attending the GCAF and believe that though it is far for them that it's worth the drive even though they have never attended it before. I will be taking a 4-5 hour drive personally. Thanks, thats all I have to say.

Karisu-sama
01-14-2005, 03:18 AM
I'm going to rename this thread because it has an unclear title.
As for renaming the forum, the forum this thread is in is called "Garden City Anime Festival", and it's ridiculous to rename or delete it, unless GCAF is being called off.

Traxbaby is so far the rudest person in this thread, also hurling random accusations.
....What the heck is "stabbage"? (You DID mean "sabotage", I hope?)

Amy the Yu
01-14-2005, 03:46 AM
Originally Posted by Amy the Yu
this is a disaster waiting to happen.
(from the first post)

I think you're taking my comment out of context by singling out only PART of the sentence from one of my comments.

GCAF is on the same weekend as Toronto Trek and the weekend before NAF. Something like this would prove problematic for a much larger convention like Anime North. For a small starting out con like GCAF, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

Notice how it sounds much different when the entire comment is read as a whole, like it is meant to be read as in the English language.

I was by no means trying to say that GCAF was a disaster waiting to happen. I was stating that the schedule conflicts was a disaster waiting to happen.

As much as 4 hours may seem long for some people to travel, GCAF's location and Toronto is still quite close (as opposed to the 10+ hour trip I take to most the USA cons I attend). To have two conventions where a good portion of the demograph for the conventions overlap could prove an issue to one of the parties (notice how earlier on in one of the GCAF threads, some people who originally showed interest in attending had or chose to drop out because of Toronto Trek).

Admittedly, some of those people who CHOSE to go to Toronto Trek (not those who couldn't attend GCAF due to duties they have to attend to at TT) instead of GCAF may have chosen so because they live in Toronto and and it's a convention closer to home, but you also have to look at how many TT attendees who live within city limits, yet still chose to stay at the nearby hotels. 4 hours of travel to get down to St. Catherine's wouldn't add onto the total cost of the convention weekend all that much, especially since hotel rates are higher in Toronto.

I DO live in Toronto (well, I don't as much as my parents do, but their home is my home), and no I will not be attending GCAF. Not so much because of the travel time from Toronto, or that I would rather attend Toronto Trek, but because I'll not only NOT be living in Toronto at the time, I won't even be living in Canada at that time. Getting to the closest part of the Canada/USA border would take me about 8 hours from my location.

I don't find the arguement that Nagii made about Toronto residents not understanding having to travel far distances for conventions is a very fair comment.

A lot of Toronto residents (ie Kurai, who lives more or less in the same neck of the woods as me), still have to travel quite far to reach even other Toronto conventions. I live right by the Scarborough Town Center. Getting to the station takes me minutes from my house, but the distance I would be required to travel, getting to CN's location at the Metro Con. Center takes almost a full hour. Getting to Anime North's location by transit (which is my only mode of transportation within the city) takes over 2 hours! Same city, but different ends of the same city.

I go to school in Waterloo (U of Waterloo), so every time I would like to attend something in Toronto, it's a 2 hour ride one way for me to get home, and that's if I take the bus that drops me off right at the STC (which only runs twice every week). If I take any other bus, I have an additional hour of riding the subway to look forward to as well.

I'll also be putting myself through the 28 hour long round trip to be able to return to the city from my summer job in the USA so I can attend Anime North. And there are countless other convention goers that live in and around southern Ontario who will be travelling down to Baltimore for Otakon by car.

With this said, I don't think we're trying to "stabbage" GCAF because it's not terribly convenient for those who live in the GTA.

rox_my_sox
01-14-2005, 04:48 AM
ok well maybe then I dont TOTALLY agree with traxbaby, because your right "stabbage" might be not the apropriate word for it but I think the message of that means that it sounds like your strashing the convention. I don't think the convention wasment to be convenient or difficult for people who live in the GTA, it's just where it is because they decided to put it there for what ever reasons. If your not going why do you care so much about this?

Karisu-sama thank you for renaming the thread.

I really don't see much of a point to this thread, to me it seems like convention bashing so what ever I'm just going to post this and stop reading anymore posts made after now because it's just alot of argueing so you dont really need to bother replying.

Amy the Yu
01-14-2005, 12:20 PM
If your not going why do you care so much about this?

you dont really need to bother replying.

I just had to point out that asking a question and telling me not to bother replying is kinda funny. Good way to lighten my mood after staying up all night for a statistics assignment.

As for this thread. A lot of people seem to have brought up problems they saw in the con set up (severity of the problems varied widely), but much of it was just random talk and not all the issues were directed towards the con staff who would be the ones that would need to fix them, if they're to be fixed at all.

This thread was to bring to attention some potential problems for GCAF, but as it seems that Nagii and the other GCAF staff don't feel that the con could improve any further than from how it is right now, or they don't think the issues would cause any problems what so ever, this thread seems to not really have any further purpose except for people to flame when they misunderstand statements and comments made by others.

It also seems I'm neither allowed to make suggestions to or support a convention I won't be attending. -_-;;

Schubuttercup
01-14-2005, 02:37 PM
Ta duh, I am here and this is my first time reading this thread. I was scanning though and it seems this topic jumps around...ALOT. It goes from helpful hints to bashing completely. Really..I think..out of this WHOLE topic there have only been 3 problems pointed out...uhh ok. Why are we making a big deal about 3 problems! I'm sure they would of fixed them without help, have faith people.

Being this is their first con, their gonna be making changes thoughout the year fixing problems moving things trying to make everything fit. I really think for some kids..or teenagers who are full time students, work and most likely have other teenager issues to make something that takes alot of time and money, is actually a great thing. Another cool thing I noticed..is GCAF doesn't even get a penny out of this whole thing. That is so cool, because it makes it very different then other cons, since these people are doing this work and not getting a cent to show for it for themselves or for next years con.

The other funny thing is that 80% complaining on this thread...aren't even GOING! Now..I agree with Nagii about the no city thing cause I'm in the same pot. No anime/import stores, no credit card to buy things online, I have to save money and buy everything at conventions. So kinda like I have to wait a year before getting anything japanese related, it sucks, so I kinda feel for ya.

Another thing people, lets not try to discourage people from comming or the GCAF staff, cause you wouldn't like it if you were them. I can say that cause I'm going ^_^

Mifflin
01-14-2005, 04:48 PM
Ta duh, I am here and this is my first time reading this thread. I was scanning though and it seems this topic jumps around...ALOT. It goes from helpful hints to bashing completely. Really..I think..out of this WHOLE topic there have only been 3 problems pointed out...uhh ok. Why are we making a big deal about 3 problems! I'm sure they would of fixed them without help, have faith people.

Being this is their first con, their gonna be making changes thoughout the year fixing problems moving things trying to make everything fit. I really think for some kids..or teenagers who are full time students, work and most likely have other teenager issues to make something that takes alot of time and money, is actually a great thing. Another cool thing I noticed..is GCAF doesn't even get a penny out of this whole thing. That is so cool, because it makes it very different then other cons, since these people are doing this work and not getting a cent to show for it for themselves or for next years con.

The other funny thing is that 80% complaining on this thread...aren't even GOING! Now..I agree with Nagii about the no city thing cause I'm in the same pot. No anime/import stores, no credit card to buy things online, I have to save money and buy everything at conventions. So kinda like I have to wait a year before getting anything japanese related, it sucks, so I kinda feel for ya.

Another thing people, lets not try to discourage people from comming or the GCAF staff, cause you wouldn't like it if you were them. I can say that cause I'm going ^_^




I agree completely




I just had to point out that asking a question and telling me not to bother replying is kinda funny. Good way to lighten my mood after staying up all night for a statistics assignment.

I think it was ment to be a question not ment to be answered like venting, or it could have been a question at first but then thinking about it after rox was probaly tired of all the drama in the thread and decided to ignore it. I personally think what you just said was kind of snobby sounding. This thread is like 3 problems being juggled around over and over again so I agree with rox, this thread isn't worth looking at anymore so "you don't really need to bother replying" :p and to Amy_the_Yu, you might want to lighten up a bit about the issues.

Amy the Yu
01-14-2005, 04:59 PM
this thread seems to not really have any further purpose

And I quote myself.

Dudes, if you have such a big probem with this thread, just go get a mod to close it. I said myself that this thread no longer had any reason to keep going.

Stop complaining and whining and go get something done. =P If asked, I'm sure a mod would be willing to close the thread considering even the person who started it doesn't even care for it anymore.

xiola
01-14-2005, 05:16 PM
*patpats amy*

is it just me, or when posts are long it seems that people have a tendency to automatically get defensive, and seem to read through it all and ONLY remember the negative points. i know from experience that it's hard to avoid a defensive stance when you are being critiqued on something you are working hard on, but you basically have to learn what any of my friends who have been through art school have had to learn: listening to advice without defensiveness is the only way to start taking constructive comments the way they were MEANT: to be helpful and supportive and help you grow in the right direction! ^_^ sadly, true helpful "support" cannot always be in the form of compliments. i think if you would look at these things without feeling so defensive you would realize that some of these people are *actually* trying to *help you succeed*. no? ^_~

i, personally, am going to toronto trek... but like the majority of the people you will be losing to TT, i've known since last year that i'd be going :P so personally i consider the points about timing to be valid. on the other hand i am only one person, and i am of the older-half-of-anime-fandom demographic (23... it's sad when 23 is "older" ;_;) who doesn't really make up a large percentage of anime cons anymore, and Toronto Trek is largely made up of people much older than the current anime demographic. so... while i think that scheduling issues are somewhat more important than you're making them out to be (basically the fact is that people DO have to choose between cons, because they cannot go to all of them, and most kids who can't go to every con of the year will simply choose the biggest one), despite this, i will admit that Toronto trek is probably not losing you a HUGE percentage of your expected demographic. but just so that you're aware: the demographic you will be losing are the 18-30 age fans who were already geeks before they became anime fans ^_~

i wish you good luck, but i also hope that you will be able to take a helping hand where it is meant without snubbing out some of your best means of support ^^;;

Seed-chan
01-14-2005, 06:06 PM
**FYI: I am not attending GCAF. My interest was merely piqued and I can't help replying. I do not intend to offend anyone, but if you're offended well... meh.

- First of all, I am ashamed to see how several of you reacted towards Amy, who was merely trying to give some suggestions. She was merely trying to help and give out *constructive criticisms*. And some of you acted like she was saying that this convention should burn in hell.

I personally think you should welcome all criticisms no matter how many times they're said to you as long as they're logical. And I have to agree with Amy on her arguments.

-TIME: I know I know, you don't care that TT is on the same weekend. But perhaps next year you should make sure the date doesn't clash with anything for the sake of your *con-goers*. There actually might be a few who want to go to both but can't because of this conflict. And personally, I'd rather go to the bigger one really, especially if I had been looking forward to it for a year already. (FYI: I'm not going to TT either...)

-LOCATION: This would've been fine... until I saw what numbers were expected. 1000 attendies is a bit extreme. I recall the AN numbers being close to that a couple years ago and they've obviously been open for a while.

For a first year con, a couple HUNDRED would be nice. Wasn't NAF a couple hundred last year? (NAF people, someone clarify please). And even that was a big thumbs up! :bigtu: But one thing NAF had was the big hype. Friends of friends were going. Friends of friends of friends went.

Another thing is the 3-day vs. 2-day vs. 1-dayness of your convention. It's actually harder to commit to a convention when it's longer. Many people can only go to one day, and if it's only one day why bother going if I'm gonna miss the stuff from the other two? When it's three days, the con goers also have to find accomodation.

NAF cut down their con to one day last year didn't they? You should learn from other conventions. Most conventions don't start big. I'm sure if Hobbystar had made their TACs 3 day cons, the turn out wouldn't be as good as they really are.

I think it's great you're making a con for the ones who live far away from Toronto. But I think it's terrible how you accepted suggestions.

I'm going to use the DJ's of the jpop dances as an example. (We love them though! <3) Before and after every dance, people give suggestions for what music they should play. After every dance, there's also people who complain about the music that they play. But the DJs try to accomodate the needs of those people because they are their audience. I've never actually seen any of the DJs really lash out at anyone, even though I'm sure they're more sick of these complaints/auggestions than you should be at all.

This is your first time making a con. You're lucky you're getting any suggestions at all. You could be stuck with people who keep their mouths shut about

everything and then the con comes and you're potientially screwed. And you really shouldn't complain, considering it makes you seem VERY unprofessional.

...as for those of you NOT on the GCAF staff and who have flamed this thread. If you saw someone who was going to trip on something, would you stop them or let them fall and make a fool of themselves? If someone warned the tripper, would you yell at them for it?

My 1 and a half cents because I ran out of proper grammar halfway through due to hunger, cold, and fatigue.

Nagii
01-14-2005, 09:56 PM
Umm..I haven't posted here in a day, and I really had to reply again because in the last couple posts some of the people who are going to the event or were flaming Amy have somehow reflected on me and the GCAf x_x; Talk about ouch.

I do not mind AMy's comments, I am not defensive. I actually have took note on what she said..I have no idea where the whole idea came about that I was flaming, or being defensive or whatnot.

FYI- I'm the only GCAF that has posted on this thread and..uh..I've only posted once. Things like this:

This is your first time making a con. You're lucky you're getting any suggestions at all. You could be stuck with people who keep their mouths shut about
everything and then the con comes and you're potientially screwed. And you really shouldn't complain, considering it makes you seem VERY unprofessional.

but as it seems that Nagii and the other GCAF staff don't feel that the con could improve any further than from how it is right now, or they don't think the issues would cause any problems what so ever

It's kinda like harsh. I do like everyone's suggestions and I never became defensive about it o_o As for TT I ain't really concerned. It was mistake, a mistake that won't happen again, things happen...it's the only way we learn.

Now..when someone mentioned about TT dates, I kept going to their website looking over them and never found them, I went back every day, wondering if I missed them, I must be totally blind.

As for not getting in touch with other con people..I've actually been trying to get in touch with staff at AN for suggestions and help. Either they don't write back or they say they can't help. I know you helped our Masq, it was very nice of you. Arigotou! I got something from Tamara of AN, she's invited us to AN this year so hopefully we can meet some of ya, a bunch of us are attending MTAC and NAF this year as well, banzai!

Now the one-2-3 day thing....I knew what we were getting into when we choosed it, but we wanted to start something big and out there rather then small and undiscovered. I actually thought I would have the same problem as NAF, with money since I know they couldn't get enough for a 3 day con. But, alot of fundraising and paychecks have gone into this already and we already finished off the second payment of the space rental, so..inless a bomb hits CIBC in the next 7months we should be set for the con. ^_^

The Japan-Canada Fund will be helping our sucess along to, so it's gonna be great. ^_^

Now I want to say this last and final, were good people, please don't let flame threads reflect us ;-; I would really like it if you wouldn't.

Amy the Yu
01-14-2005, 10:31 PM
FYI- I'm the only GCAF that has posted on this thread and..uh..I've only posted once.

Actually you posted twice, but that's just me being nit-picky.

Now..when someone mentioned about TT dates, I kept going to their website looking over them and never found them, I went back every day, wondering if I missed them, I must be totally blind.

Convention dates are often decided on far FAR ahead of time, but not released on the sites until a much later date. Many reasons for this including that the site administrator may be taking a break after another con season has passed.

The key is to ask around and not rely on just the site for information. I was notified of the 2005 convention date for TT months ago by friends who are on staff there...and ironically, one of my closest friends that's on staff is the program designer. He's often provided me with convention information long before most of the other staff were even aware of it.

I'm always willing to help when I can, but I can't do anything if I'm not aware of a situation...neither can anyone else who would like to help.

As for not getting in touch with other con people..I've actually been trying to get in touch with staff at AN for suggestions and help. Either they don't write back or they say they can't help.

There are more ways of contacting staff than trying to email a few. Many of the staff there have email addresses that are only for convention purposes. For all those people who have tried to contact them for Dealers' Room and Artists' Alley information (including myself), we all know that they don't even start CHECKING those emails until after the new year comes around.

I personally have several friends who are AN staff and many more friends who have staff members' home email address that they can be reached at. You would have found a load of people that could unexpectedly help you find what you need if you ask around. There are many people on Cosplay.com alone that have connections to staff of various conventions, or are on staff themselves.

Next time, just ask around. Not just the convention staff, but everyone else. The only way to learn something is to not be afraid to ask.

Now the one-2-3 day thing....I knew what we were getting into when we choosed it, but we wanted to start something big and out there rather then small and undiscovered.

All conventions started off small. Even Otakon started off with only 350 attendees and only 4 dealers! Now they're at over 20 000 and having to put a cap on the number of attendees because THERE'S NO MORE ROOM!!! If they allow any more attendees to go, they would be breaking the law.

Now I want to say this last and final, were good people, please don't let flame threads reflect us ;-; I would really like it if you wouldn't.

Just a small note that if you check out who the blatant flamers were, they were both ones who were trying to flame me. All the other parties involved were stating facts or opinions, NOT stating things like "I am gonna flame this" as Traxbaby did in so many words (directly cut and pasted from that post as well).

You yourself also invited some of it. Not from me specifically, but from the Toronto residences in general when you stated, "I wasn't trying to appeal to Toronto people anyways."

From the sounds of that sentence, I would have guessed you would rather that everyone from the GTA just stay home or go to Toronto Trek and not bother with GCAF because Torontorians aren't welcome at GCAF.

Mekou
01-15-2005, 12:53 AM
>> Wasn't NAF a couple hundred last year? (NAF people, someone clarify please). And even that was a big thumbs up! But one thing NAF had was the big hype. Friends of friends were going. Friends of friends of friends went.

NAF was less than 100 (or so it felt like it XD). I'm not sure of the actual numbers. NAF had big hype? o_o; lmao.

Sarcasm-hime
01-15-2005, 01:20 AM
I'm going to use the DJ's of the jpop dances as an example. (We love them though! <3) Before and after every dance, people give suggestions for what music they should play. After every dance, there's also people who complain about the music that they play. But the DJs try to accomodate the needs of those people because they are their audience. I've never actually seen any of the DJs really lash out at anyone, even though I'm sure they're more sick of these complaints/auggestions than you should be at all.

*teary-eyed* THANK YOU! ^_^


You yourself also invited some of it. Not from me specifically, but from the Toronto residences in general when you stated, "I wasn't trying to appeal to Toronto people anyways."

From the sounds of that sentence, I would have guessed you would rather that everyone from the GTA just stay home or go to Toronto Trek and not bother with GCAF because Torontorians aren't welcome at GCAF.

That is definitely the impression I got...very anti-Toronto. Like "all you people in Toronto are spoiled snobs who can get anime anytime you like, we don't want you here". Many cons attract attendees from miles around......so I don't really think it's in your best interests to alienate such a huge number of people when you're still a small event that's trying to attract interest.

TamaraMacDonald
01-15-2005, 07:45 AM
To all members of the cosplay.com forum community.

As my name and Anime North 2005 was mentioned in regards to GCAF, I wish to make some things clear.

I do not wish to intrude on the board because out of respect to the board administrators and anyone who knows me- though I love cosplay- i cannot sew to save my own life. Stapling and glue gun is as far as it goes, so my daughters do not do allot of cosplaying.:) And I envy all of you who do put in the time in making such wonderful outfits. I wish I had the time and skill to make such creations.

But considering what I am going to share, I think the situation necessitates it.

Without prejudice- what I am about to say is not GCAF or Anime North bashing- just stating the facts and the current position.

Note: My *hometown* is St.Catharine's and I do not live in Toronto.

And I LOVE St.Kitt's and appreciate what it is like to grow up there and all the things it has to offer and doesn't have to offer. Same thing with Toronto- I work in Toronto, and fully appreciate all that it has to offer and not offer.:) So this is not a case of which city I support. :skidude2:


Anime North *did not* invite GCAF in the manner it has been stated, or implied, in this forum.

When they initially contacted me for suggestions and help, I responded as I would if any other convention contacted me to include what exchanges could possibly happen between two cons, such as us and them.


These are the *same *suggestions and comments that I offered to NAF when they contacted us last year. Note: I strongly suggested to NAF that they should try a 1 day con before taking on a 3 day con- as we found from our own experiences and mistakes.

Yes- Anime North started off small, and learned along the way, hence sharing the bouquets and bricks that we experienced during our 9 year journey. Key message here that I stressed to NAF: Learn from the mistakes Anime North made....... AND whatever we can or I can help you (NAF) with, will try my best, as long as it does not infringe or compromise on my roles and responsibilities with Anime North. (e.g. I cannot be the Liaison Director on both....split loyalities...) ^_^

Upon further investigation of their event and more specifically their website, I came across some irregular items that I will not make public, as it is a matter between GCAF and Anime North.

I am *not* saying this to bait any individual or group. It really is an unresolved matter between the two organizations. And for anyone at GCAF to assume otherwise would be their own folly.

I do not appreciate another con using my name and my standing in the convention community to their benefit , when it is *not* the case.

Anime North welcomes any new con in the area and has embraced the philosophy of helping other cons get going or resolve the challenges they face. Examples are working with TT, Ad Astra , many American cons, Anime Evolution, Animethon ,NAF and a new gaming/relaxing con coming out.

However, there is a mutual understanding and respect of accessing each other's materials and resources. It works on professional courtesy and quid pro quo. Not saying everyone must hail to the greatness of Anime North or myself (joke!!), but just as if someone is providing you advice and resources- you do not bite off the hand that has offered you help.

Another for profit con in Toronto did this to Anime North and we severed all relations with them, at an organizational level, though many of AN staff still participate in this for-profit cons activities- which is fine.:)


Hence do not think that Anime North as an organization is busting down doors on behalf of GCAF. Individuals that have been part of AN staff maybe be acting on their own and that is fine, however I just want to make it clear that Anime North is not making special arrangements for GCAF at Anime North 2005 and considering the circumstances, is quite surprised that GCAF is still of that mindset.

We *have not* made ANY sort of commitment with GCAF.

And to all organizers of cons- remember this- Cons help each other out but should be professional in their actions and observe certain courtesies.

Best of luck to *all* in their convention activities----

Tamara MacDonald
Liaison Director
Anime North 2005

TamaraMacDonald
01-15-2005, 08:10 AM
Quote/For all those people who have tried to contact them for Dealers' Room and Artists' Alley information (including myself), we all know that they don't even start CHECKING those emails until after the new year comes around./end quote

(since this forum is new to me...). :chatah:

Actually- all of us DO answer the emails. However, some of us have experienced computers literally blowing up and losing everything.

best to find information (while we do a complete redo of the website) on our forums AND if you have that burning question.

(AA stuff should be up soon- Jen and Jess needed to confirm a few things re: layout first...)

(Dealer's info- we had to make some changes to that as well- it should be up soon- but both Donald and I have responded to dealers@animenorth.com on a regular basis).

But like i said, whilst the website is under going changes- post on our message board- you will get some sort of response (but no guarantees it is the response that you want !! :thumbsup: )

Best-
Tamara

Liaison Director
Anime North 2005

xiola
01-15-2005, 12:57 PM
nagii - i just want to say i appreciated your 3rd post (err, the #22 of the thread one), and appreciate your more gracious attitude in it.

so i want to say that on the flipside, that the last few posts HAVE been somewhat harsh (although not entirely untrue)... so as long as you continue to take critisism's in stride as you have been doing in your last post, i want to let you know that i totally appreciate/understand the fact that you DO have to stay positive when planning something like this instead of just folding and going "oh shit you're all right... we ARE going to fail! oh, no, we suck, i should just give up while i'm ahead, woe!" because obviously that doesn't help either - in some ways a positive attitude is almost as important as being willing to learn from other's mistakes and advice, so you have that part right already ^_~ so keep it up and keep as much of an open mind as possible. ^_^

Tsukasa_1
01-15-2005, 05:43 PM
Hello,

As the Liaison Director / Current (unable to spell today) President of Northern Anime Festival, you could have contact myself and I would have been more then happy to direct you all in the right direction based on my past experience.

There is many things you should know about, that we learned this past year that may come in handy for ya.

you can find my contact info at http://www.northernanime.ca (I dont pubically post my email for spam reasons)

Thanks,
Mark W. Hamilton (Liaison Director)

Tsukasa_1
01-15-2005, 05:46 PM
>> Wasn't NAF a couple hundred last year? (NAF people, someone clarify please). And even that was a big thumbs up! But one thing NAF had was the big hype. Friends of friends were going. Friends of friends of friends went.

NAF was less than 100 (or so it felt like it XD). I'm not sure of the actual numbers. NAF had big hype? o_o; lmao.

Hey Mekou! i bet you didnt think i would be on here :P

Anyways, the upto date count for NAFs attendence was 75 People, and the main issue with NAF was there wasnt any Hype and advertisment- I recall the only major Ad campaign we did as at AN in the dealers room at our table....

This year is differnt we are full out marketing... :P

TamaraMacDonald
01-15-2005, 05:54 PM
Hey Mekou! i bet you didnt think i would be on here :P

Anyways, the upto date count for NAFs attendence was 75 People, and the main issue with NAF was there wasnt any Hype and advertisment- I recall the only major Ad campaign we did as at AN in the dealers room at our table....

This year is differnt we are full out marketing... :P

Mark- now is the time to start talking.....for 2005 :p

(Note- your title should represent how your organization is registered.... ^_^)
But i thought NAF had more than that? hmmm. :woah:

Like i said before- AN started off small....in a medical college....so have faith.:)

Tamara
Liaison Director
Anime North 2005

Tsukasa_1
01-15-2005, 06:12 PM
Mark- now is the time to start talking.....for 2005 :p

(Note- your title should represent how your organization is registered.... ^_^)
But i thought NAF had more than that? hmmm. :woah:

Like i said before- AN started off small....in a medical college....so have faith.:)

Tamara
Liaison Director
Anime North 2005

Heh, Expect to hopefully hear from me this sunday if all goes well...

SimiHe
01-15-2005, 07:30 PM
Hi...I just read this thread and I feel there is no reason it should remain open. It's useless and utterly cruel, not only to GCAF but it seems invidvials have been bashed as well.

I also think..geting AN's staff involved (Tamara) was completely stupid. Mentioning her name, sure ok. But to get her to sign up and post something to public view is UTTERLY messed up. The same goes for NAF's director. People, you got something to say, say it in private cause we don't want to hear your issues, we as the public do not care.

Everything mentioned in this thread should of been done by PM or IM cause it shouldn't be in public eye. In my opinon it shows how weak the convention community is, how it one second people can be turned against each other.

NOT ONLY that..but we went off topic! (Mekou and NAF Director)

Please delete this thread, it's giving me a big headache just seeing it. :lost:

Kitchen
01-15-2005, 07:57 PM
Hmm..this is as wonderful as my meat loaf I tried to bake for supper today o_O..see how that turned out. I agree with some of the people on the board...EMAILING doesn't work. I've tried it, it gets ignored. Trust me I understand your frusrations. Second, I give my support and well the rest of my friends and family who will be attending. I do it as a person who's into teaching, I think this is a wonderful lesson. Being you are all in Highschool or early college, this gives you lessons on budget, how to run a business and what not and I think it's wonderful.

I also think it's wonderful that not only are you gathering donations, but you are using your whole paychecks to pick into the pot, that's alot for a teenager to do. Not only that, but I did some research on RAFT. I found an article in a newspaper well and online one that said RAFT is lacking city funding, that they have to turn people away because theres no room and it might be dying.

I think it's cool that you as students and teenagers yourself are giving them your whole profit. It's teenagers, homeless teenagers and your helping them in building their dreams thats, wonderful as well. As you can tell I love saying wonderful. my teacher always tells me that ^_^

If it was allowed, I would make a year end project where a group of students invent, maintian and work their own business. It's a wonderful project idea don't you think?
You know, I think because AN is full of old-wise people who have had at least 8 years experience, I think they should help this con, help NAF as well since they are teenagers, though for profit but their learning the same.

Your all part of the same business, it's not a completion it's a learning event. A learning experience in helping a local charity, the community of fans and the qualitications of experience working people. I congrats and give kudo's to both the young staff of NAF and the young staff of GCAF.

It takes alot to dream, but it takes even more to make it happen and it's because of their hardwork and deciation, that I would choose a NAF and GCAF over a bigger con like AN, because they need support. They need that hand to grip on to and know they did great work, they accomplished things people said they couldn't and I bet that will be a wonderful feeling. Good Luck NAF and GCAF, I will glady shake your hands on the con days, this makes me feel great to know I was apart of something great.

(BTW..I know AN is in may and GCAF and NAF are in July. But I don't mind going hungry if that makes people's dreams come true.)

Tsukasa_1
01-15-2005, 08:11 PM
You know, I think because AN is full of old-wise people who have had at least 8 years experience, I think they should help this con, help NAF as well since they are teenagers, though for profit but their learning the same.

We're actually Registered Not-For-Profit as well :)


Your all part of the same business, it's not a completion it's a learning event. A learning experience in helping a local charity, the community of fans and the qualitications of experience working people. I congrats and give kudo's to both the young staff of NAF and the young staff of GCAF.


Overall, well said- I dont think I could have said it better myself- It is the encouragement from the fans that keeps a convention alive, I had a good experience with at the end of NAF, I got the chance to speak with one of the attendees who came on the way back to toronto and just knowing that she had a really great time (despite some of the problems we ran into) enough to move us into a second year. :jjacks:

We learn form our mistakes, this is something I find myself repeating to everyone :)

Kitchen
01-15-2005, 08:27 PM
My mistake, I think I'll reword that to charible organization..then. Since your both not-for-profit, but I don't think you guys work for a charity

Tsukasa_1
01-15-2005, 08:36 PM
My mistake, I think I'll reword that to charible organization..then. Since your both not-for-profit, but I don't think you guys work for a charity

Thats ok :) we do plan on supporting a charity in the near future once we are able to gain enough funds for both supporting the next year and a charity.

Kitchen
01-15-2005, 08:38 PM
Thats ok :) we do plan on supporting a charity in the near future once we are able to gain enough funds for both supporting the next year and a charity.

Aa, that would be great. Supporting charities is a great thing.

I also just want to add, I doubt a person like Nagii who is caring enough not to take any profit for this event will ever think that way about people in Toronto, I'm sure it wasn't meant like that. I got it. Maybe you should read that post again.

Also, people whining about GCAf being like a 2-4 hour drive. If you didn't notice I live in Manitoba and you know that's at least a 2 day drive to Toronto, most likely 3 to St. Catharines, I'm not complaining, not that least.

Sarcasm-hime
01-15-2005, 09:42 PM
AFAIK, us 'old-wise people' have been trying to help, and they're telling us that a) they don't want anything to do with Toronto, and b) they know how to do everything already. Blind encouragement makes you feel nice and fuzzy, but constructive criticism is actually helpful as long as you don't get all defensive and flip out.

We're just trying to explain that ALL cons (with very few exceptions) start out very small and do NOT turn a profit the first year. So they should know what to expect, and that it will probably not go smoothly, because even at cons that have been going for years there are unforeseen problems. It's just being realistic. We're not just trying to bring them down or 'stabbage' them. But if you just want to think we're big evil meanies, so be it. :P

Oselle
01-15-2005, 09:52 PM
Also, people whining about GCAf being like a 2-4 hour drive. If you didn't notice I live in Manitoba and you know that's at least a 2 day drive to Toronto, most likely 3 to St. Catharines, I'm not complaining, not that least.

And good on you for making the effort to come out for such events without complaining, you are obviously willing to sacrifice to obtain what you want! :) But it stands to consider that not everyone is willing or even able to do that, whether they be 48 or 4 or 2 hours away from the destination.

I think the issue of distance has more to do with demographics than whining for the sake of whining. The anime-convention audience tends toward the younger side of fandom (caveat, though, I do realize that people of all ages enjoy going!). But the fact remains, much of the target audience is under...say, 24? Just a guess. Many are in university or junior high/high school. This means a few things, including limited funds and limited means of transportation. But it seems as though the GCAF folk recognize this and have realistic expectations.

Best of luck with the convention! I won't be there (I'm a Toronto Trek fan), but I wish you all well. Just remember that that as representatives of a convention, your communication should carry a level of professionalism. The first year of anything is fraught with challenges, and from what I've seen, there are many people around in-the-know who are willing to offer suggestions.

Kitchen
01-15-2005, 09:53 PM
AFAIK, us 'old-wise people' have been trying to help, and they're telling us that a) they don't want anything to do with Toronto, and b) they know how to do everything already. Blind encouragement makes you feel nice and fuzzy, but constructive criticism is actually helpful as long as you don't get all defensive and flip out.

I might want to point out here in this statement that you say 'they'. As you read from the #22 post, only 1 member of the staff have answered this thread. Also, this staff member has stated they welcome all helpful suggestions. I suggest that you, yourself re read the posts, before stating things so blantly.

We're just trying to explain that ALL cons (with very few exceptions) start out very small and do NOT turn a profit the first year. So they should know what to expect, and that it will probably not go smoothly

In the thread entitled Garden City Anime Festival, it was said by Nagii that everything is being paid before the event so there were no costs during or after and that all the profit would be given to the charity. She also stated that GCAF will contain no profit anyways. As well, re-reading statements should be an asset.

Tsukasa_1
01-15-2005, 10:07 PM
In the thread entitled Garden City Anime Festival, it was said by Nagii that everything is being paid before the event so there were no costs during or after and that all the profit would be given to the charity. She also stated that GCAF will contain no profit anyways. As well, re-reading statements should be an asset.

Unforunatly, this is why I wanted them to talk to me as well- with all considering they will not be able to get any type of grant that they are looking for through the Japan-Canada stream as they plan, thus I know- because I have talked to them just over a month ago and was told up front that they do not support events (conventions), on the other hand if we wanted to fly a Japanese Guest out they would pay their flight costs and we would have to pay their speaking fee (which looking around at example on the forums from AN is quite high). Next we tried the Ontario Arts Council (and our local one) and we got the same response from both, "We only support Major Events and ones that promote Professional development" (ie. professionals who are teaching to other already known professionals).

Thats all I will say along those lines, I have a lot more to say but I wish to say it to them in an email when they are ready for me to share it with them (ie. contact me first and I shall reply) :)

Thanks!

Mark W. Hamilton
Liaison Director
Northern Anime Festival 2005

TamaraMacDonald
01-15-2005, 11:26 PM
Unforunatly, this is why I wanted them to talk to me as well- with all considering they will not be able to get any type of grant that they are looking for through the Japan-Canada stream as they plan, thus I know- because I have talked to them just over a month ago and was told up front that they do not support events (conventions), on the other hand if we wanted to fly a Japanese Guest out they would pay their flight costs and we would have to pay their speaking fee (which looking around at example on the forums from AN is quite high). Next we tried the Ontario Arts Council (and our local one) and we got the same response from both, "We only support Major Events and ones that promote Professional development" (ie. professionals who are teaching to other already known professionals).

Thats all I will say along those lines, I have a lot more to say but I wish to say it to them in an email when they are ready for me to share it with them (ie. contact me first and I shall reply) :)

Thanks!

Mark W. Hamilton
Liaison Director
Northern Anime Festival 2005


The other aspect is that you have to pay for all expenses when a GOH arrives and provide a translator (unless you are fluent in *business* japanese- there is a difference). Translators can cost up to 1000$ per day and you have to pay for their costs.

All invitation has to be in Japanese as well, detailing the event, venue, activities , who you are etc. Japanese companies are very particular about this point. Additionally, most J guests cannot commit until before the event simply because taking long holidays is not part of their culture. A long holiday is 4 days for them and *must* receive permission from the company first.

Remember- Japanese business culture is *very* difference than North American business culture. I know this from first hand experience from doing negotiations in Japan with these companies.

Again- lots of advice has been given but just like many things in life- if you choose to ignore it, welll....then people like me get tired of giving.

(also do your research on what a non-profit organization (NPO) and a charitable organization is- different legal and financial accountabilities and reporting structures to the government. Make sure you are registered for the *right* one and follow the proper business model for which one you choose to be- since that alone will be valuable. Luckily- I have over 5 years professional experience in working in both plus private sector (god- longer than the average age of the con attendee :thumbsup: and it has been a big help with running Anime North).

Tamara
Liaison Director
Anime North 2005

Amy the Yu
01-15-2005, 11:27 PM
SimiHe, your post itself is quite hypocritical. If you felt that the thread should be deleted, then you should have contacted (via PM) a moderator to remove it. Even as the creator of the thread, I do not have authority to delete the thread (or at least not that I am aware of).

In addition to that, at least earlier on, one of the board moderators , Karisu-sama, did indeed come to this thread, and changed the title to something more appropriate, but did not delete the thread.

I think that aside from some of the one sided posts (ie. flames), this thread may prove useful to Nagii, if not for possible problems being pointed out, many facts about conventions are being pointed out and many have offered their contact information and opinions about the best way to run a convention (from both the attendee and the staff point of view).

Hi...I just read this thread and I feel there is no reason it should remain open. It's useless and utterly cruel, not only to GCAF but it seems invidvials have been bashed as well.

I also think..geting AN's staff involved (Tamara) was completely stupid. Mentioning her name, sure ok. But to get her to sign up and post something to public view is UTTERLY messed up. The same goes for NAF's director. People, you got something to say, say it in private cause we don't want to hear your issues, we as the public do not care.

Actually, the reason that the issues concerned me so much, was that so many people who WANTED to go to GCAF were talking about it. Things like the time issue and conflict with Toronto Trek and close proximity to NAF had many convention goers concerned because they may not be able to go to all the cons that they had wanted. As lucky as I am to have sufficient resources (ie. saving money like nuts year round) to attend most of the conventions that I want to go to, many are not so fortunate.

A lot of people also don't plan for conventions MONTHS ahead of time, and I would rather they not end up on the week before the convention and suddenly realize that they may have to chose between two venues that they were hoping to attend.

Everything mentioned in this thread should of been done by PM or IM cause it shouldn't be in public eye. In my opinon it shows how weak the convention community is, how it one second people can be turned against each other.

NOT ONLY that..but we went off topic! (Mekou and NAF Director)

Please delete this thread, it's giving me a big headache just seeing it. :lost:

Please, by all means, no one forced you to sit down to view the thread, neither did anyone "force" Tamara or Mark (AN Liaison Director and NAF Director, respectively) to post on this thread, but as they were either mentioned by name/convention, they wanted to contribute to the thread. Both were offering to help Nagii (GCAF director), not trying to ruin the convention.

Kaijugal
01-17-2005, 01:32 AM
It takes alot to dream, but it takes even more to make it happen and it's because of their hardwork and deciation, that I would choose a NAF and GCAF over a bigger con like AN, because they need support.


All cons need support if they are to survive. Big or small. That's what good fan run cons are, the sum of a community effort. ^_^


You know, I think because AN is full of old-wise people who have had at least 8 years experience, I think they should help this con, help NAF as well since they are teenagers, though for profit but their learning the same.

Your all part of the same business, it's not a completion it's a learning event. A learning experience in helping a local charity, the community of fans and the qualitications of experience working people. I congrats and give kudo's to both the young staff of NAF and the young staff of GCAF.


( ...but not of Anime North? Hm. Remind me again who's touting an 'Us vs. Them Mentality' ? )


AFAIK, us 'old-wise people' have been trying to help, and they're telling us that a) they don't want anything to do with Toronto, and b) they know how to do everything already. Blind encouragement makes you feel nice and fuzzy, but constructive criticism is actually helpful as long as you don't get all defensive and flip out.

We're just trying to explain that ALL cons (with very few exceptions) start out very small and do NOT turn a profit the first year. So they should know what to expect, and that it will probably not go smoothly, because even at cons that have been going for years there are unforeseen problems. It's just being realistic. We're not just trying to bring them down or 'stabbage' them. But if you just want to think we're big evil meanies, so be it. :P



Kitchen,

I think it's strange that you seem to be under the impression that the people you call the "old-wise people", (presumably the Exec, Department Heads, Staff, etc), of Anime North have not reached out and made an effort to ease the way for the organizers of NAF and GCAF.

You must consider not only what has been said in this forum but all private correspondance in private that has gone on since work on NAF was underway. We're mature enough to realize that it isn't a competition, and realize that we are stronger as a community gainning nothing from tearing each other down. (which you seem to be intimating we do).

If you were more aware of the relationships and history of some of the older Conventions in Southern Ontario, (and even Quebec)), you would see how we support each other and know that it is true.

Many of us hold positions at multipul cons. (Unpaid positions that we sacrifice much in our to uphold our obligations to with no return other than the thanks of the congoers who appriciate it.) If we thought it was 'a competition', and we would gain by destroying other conventions why would we do this? It doesn't make much sense does it?

Many of us had offered to help, advise, or even work at the con. For example Sarcasm_hime herself, (a member of the Anime North Staff), went and volunteered her time for the NAF Masquerade.

As far as I'm concerned your statements boarder on and insulting slap in the face to those of us who have made the effort.

Yuna
01-17-2005, 08:50 AM
Hi...I just read this thread and I feel there is no reason it should remain open. It's useless and utterly cruel, not only to GCAF but it seems invidvials have been bashed as well.


I must aggree with this statment, and thusly so, I comply.

If there are still sore feelings and words that need to be said, please take it to a private venue. Thanks.