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DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 10:45 PM
I have been mentioning to a few of my friends that cosplay and go to cons that I plan on going to one in the near future and all of them have told me I shouldnt go until I get skinny (xD Im 5'4" and weigh 190 pounds) I was wondering if this is true?
The last thing I want to do is show up and be yelled at for being large I have enough self esteem issues as it is
any feed back would be helpful

MemoriesofYuna
02-03-2005, 10:59 PM
Theres quiite a few threads like this.

no no no no no no no no no no no no no!

do NOT listen to that! if you want to cosplay then do so and dont let little issues like Wight bring you down. i mean im 5'0-5'1" and i Weight about 115 and even though that's not the most for my tiny little body structure all the fat in my body acumulates in my stomach. i cosplay either way. I also have the crappyest self esteme ever and i will not let anyone tell me i cant cosplay just becuase i am shaped like i am and you shouldnt either. -Aseret Yuna

Bobbi
02-03-2005, 11:01 PM
Lies! All of it! XD

By no means should you let anyone tell you that you shouldn't cosplay or attend cons because of your weight! You're relatively close to me as far as weight goes, but I weigh a little less. I know of a LOT of people who are gorgeous cosplayers who are bigger. So don't let that stop you at all!

KoreanEyez
02-03-2005, 11:02 PM
WHAT IN THE WORLD!!!!!!! Who cares if you're not skinny?!!!! I'm not skinny myself! If you want to cosplay and go to cons, then go for it! I can't believe someone would tell you not to go to a convention unless you lost weight -_- To me, that's really hurtful. I'd rather be a bit plus-sized than skinny anyway. It gives me more shape muhahahahaha, so anyway the bottom line is, GO TO CONVENTIONS IF YOU WANT TO! NO ONE CAN STOP YOU! OKAY? :D

DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 11:04 PM
Wow thank you all so much wow
Im feeling a crapload better now :D
Thanks so much Im going to go work on my costume bwhahaha

Thanks again!!

MissLauren
02-03-2005, 11:07 PM
Yea, thats terrible that your own friends would say that.

Please slap them in the face, Bam Margera style, for me.

wulfmune
02-03-2005, 11:09 PM
i don't know why your friend should tell you not to. really cosplay is all about fun. lots of people cosplay regardless of age, height, gender, ect... why should weight be an issue?

DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 11:09 PM
Bam rocks!! XD will do

RipTheVirus
02-03-2005, 11:10 PM
Aaaaaaaww!! I'd of slap those friends of mine so hard if they told me that! XD
I agree with everyone else. n_n= My bigger friends are adorable when they cosplay. :heart: Oy! I hope those friends of yours were joking. >.>;

DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 11:10 PM
No they werent they always say stuff like that
skinny b*tches

Eleryth
02-03-2005, 11:13 PM
Totally not true. Many of my friends (and myself included) are plus-sized, and we all cosplay.

However, as plus-size people, we face more challenges making our costumes look good and suit our body. Think about the costume and think about what works with the shape you are, and make adjustments. It's not a crime, and if you look better in it (even if it's not 100% accurate to a *2D* figure), you'll feel better about it. There are a few threads for the larger-sized figure. Just search the forums a bit, and you'll find them.

EDIT: If they're always saying things like that to you, I hope you tell them how rude that behaviour is, even if you're friends. They should think about what they're doing and how it affects other people. If they don't like your views, and continue to make disparaging comments, as much as it would suck, perhaps it's come time to let the friendships go. We shouldn't surround ourselves with negativity.

RipTheVirus
02-03-2005, 11:14 PM
No they werent they always say stuff like that
skinny b*tches



ooooph, ouch! x.x Geez, that's so mean of them... o__o don't listen to them. Listen to us XD we know better!

DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 11:18 PM
Thanks so much for all the nice words Its helped alot

Lady Sephiroth
02-03-2005, 11:26 PM
No they werent they always say stuff like that
skinny b*tches
Maybe those girls are afraid that you will out do them with your sewing abilities! *gets an idea* I know, you should make an kick @ss costume that's better than theirs and prove to them that you can cosplay just as good, or even better, then they can.

DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 11:31 PM
LOL I should try :D

Tia
02-03-2005, 11:38 PM
If one of my friends said something like that to me.... it wouldn't be pretty. Ah, I hope you do go to Megacon. It's a nice convention.

Rei-sama
02-03-2005, 11:39 PM
LOL I agree with everyone. It is all about confidence. Show everyone you love yourself and your costume and everyone else will think you are wonderful ^_^ It is all about the skill. Weight should never be an issue *huggles Dragonfly* You go girl^_~

DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 11:42 PM
n_n thanks so much *hugs*

RipTheVirus
02-03-2005, 11:46 PM
Maybe those girls are afraid that you will out do them with your sewing abilities! *gets an idea* I know, you should make an kick @ss costume that's better than theirs and prove to them that you can cosplay just as good, or even better, then they can.



Hecka! I second that motion. XD That'd show them all! And it'd shut them up, that's for sure. >.> muahahaha. With everyone's help on the site, you could totally make a kick ars costume. n_n=

chibi_kitsune
02-03-2005, 11:48 PM
What does weight have to do with doing to a convention? Don't listen to them! If you want to go then go, if you want to cosplay then cosplay. Don't let what them stop you. They don't really sound like very good friends, friends are suppost to support you.

DarkDragonfly
02-03-2005, 11:51 PM
wow so much feedback O_- I think Im gunna like it here

Knight_Survive
02-03-2005, 11:57 PM
it shount matter if your big or small, fat or thin, Cosplayers are cosplayers. We do all of this for fun, no mater who much you deny it, we do it for fun. Some people will skull you for you or put you down for many reasons, but if that happends, one should only take things as a grain of salt and move on. Your better then everyone, everyone is better then everyone because everyone is who they are, they should be proud of themselves for who they are and what they are, regardless of what people say or do.

Mitchi
02-04-2005, 12:01 AM
Personally, I dont think it matters. I've seen many Ample figured cosplayers who do MUCH better than some of the thin ones i've seen.

Also, kudos to those who have the courage to actually go out and cosplay even if your figure is less than perfect. For one thing, you have better skill for being able to tailor the costumes to make it look good.

((small tibbit for no reason, Usagi (sailor moon) isnt really all that skinny in later episodes (dont remember what season, i think either Super S or Sailor stars) since they show Chibiusa making fun of her and zooming in XD))

DarkDragonfly
02-04-2005, 12:03 AM
lol I recall that XD

Starfyre
02-04-2005, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Elerith:
EDIT: If they're always saying things like that to you, I hope you tell them how rude that behaviour is, even if you're friends. They should think about what they're doing and how it affects other people. If they don't like your views, and continue to make disparaging comments, as much as it would suck, perhaps it's come time to let the friendships go. We shouldn't surround ourselves with negativity.

I second what she said. I was always a lil more cushier than my other friends, and thought nothing of it, until they started making comments. At first didnt want to think much of it, but they just kept saying it regardless of me telling them look I dont criticize you do i? So I just decided to heck with it, if the only reason I am being here is because you are my friends but you are just making me feel low--then your not my friends and I dumped them on their butts. I have been much happier since, made a great new bunch of friends and it does a world of difference.

And P-shaw to your friends telling you not to do cosplay--do what makes you feel happy! Not what anyone else thinks will make you happy or secretly make them happy. And if that made any sense to anyone, its even better ^__^ Good luck!!

DarkDragonfly
02-04-2005, 12:06 AM
Lol made perfect sense :D thanks so much

Mitchi
02-04-2005, 12:12 AM
EDIT: If they're always saying things like that to you, I hope you tell them how rude that behaviour is, even if you're friends. They should think about what they're doing and how it affects other people. If they don't like your views, and continue to make disparaging comments, as much as it would suck, perhaps it's come time to let the friendships go. We shouldn't surround ourselves with negativity.

Ah yes, just to add, i remember when my own boyfriend (now my ex bwaha) once told me not to cosplay misao as I was "too fat"...i promtly kicked his ass the next day.

he may have knocked my self esteem a bit, but frankly, i'm glad he was such a jerk about it as it helped me to pwn his ass. And as you can see from my sig, my misao costume is going on as planned! XD

DarkDragonfly
02-04-2005, 12:14 AM
See my boyfriend says Im perfect and would be really upset if I got "skinny" he says healthy is good but thin or skinny isnts attractive
I think its because he doesnt want his eye jabbed out with a rib bone when he lays his head in my lap XD
My last boyfriend was obsessed with me losing weight I was 146 when we first met and when we split I was 96 pounds
I had to go into the hospital for awhile

Mitchi
02-04-2005, 12:19 AM
good for you :D

At least now i know that anyone who doesnt think i can succesfully cosplay anyone i try to just because of my body shape, he can go live in the gutter with my wavemaster staff up his bung. XD

I'm just glad my friends believe in me to some extent...XD

DarkDragonfly
02-04-2005, 12:20 AM
LOL!!! OMG THATS A WASTE OF A GOOD STAFF!! At least wack him with it first :P

MeliCat
02-04-2005, 12:21 AM
Geez, who needs enemies with friends like that! Cosplay whomever you choose, and don't worry about what anyone says, cosplay isn't about that ^_^

Serria
02-04-2005, 12:22 AM
Not cosplay because you're overweight? That's ridiculous. We're not 'modeling' or trying to look perfect - we're just out to have fun.

Absolutely cosplay. Weight has nothing to do with it. Best of luck and have fun. =)

Miyu
02-04-2005, 12:26 AM
ok, i'm going to kind of divert from the norm here for a moment.

wear something flattering. be courteous of others. if you are overweight then you obviously know what looks nice on you and what doesn't. there was a short period of time in my life where i was a bit chubby myself... and i wouldn't have been caught dead in a bikini, a super-short skirt, or in spandex. you see what i'm saying? just generally don't show more than you should. i have a friend who is a plus size model. she's gorgeous, and she wears very flattering clothing. her weight is not the issue, as long as she knows what looks good on her. i think the same principle is applicable in this situation as well.

edit:

also, maybe you should sit down and have a heart-to-heart with your friends. a lot of the feedback i'm seeing here is very negative towards their supposed opinions. perhaps they are just trying to protect you? maybe they're looking out for you? maybe they don't want you to end up feeling embarassed if someone at a con says something mean to you about the costume that you wear there? in my opinion, the people on this thread are being very harsh on your friends although they don't even know them. it could be that your friends are just trying to look out for you, and they are doing it in a way that could be.. expressed more positively. sometimes our friends try to do something good, but it just comes out all wrong.

Angel Tifa
02-04-2005, 12:28 AM
Theres quiite a few threads like this.

no no no no no no no no no no no no no!

do NOT listen to that! if you want to cosplay then do so and dont let little issues like Wight bring you down. i mean im 5'0-5'1" and i Weight about 115 and even though that's not the most for my tiny little body structure all the fat in my body acumulates in my stomach. i cosplay either way. I also have the crappyest self esteme ever and i will not let anyone tell me i cant cosplay just becuase i am shaped like i am and you shouldnt either. -Aseret Yuna


I'm like 5'3/12" and about 157 lbs. and I still go for the character I want to cosplay as. I want to do Faye Valentine someday and I have a bigger stomach. I don't let my weight stand in my way ;).

DarkDragonfly
02-04-2005, 12:28 AM
Yea I see what your saying
I have great legs my main problem is my tummy
And its not all fat its good amount of muscle aswell I work with horses and on farms so that helps

Angel Tifa
02-04-2005, 12:30 AM
Yea I see what your saying
I have great legs my main problem is my tummy
And its not all fat its good amount of muscle aswell I work with horses and on farms so that helps

Some of mine is also muscle that need's some major working out.

Bobbi
02-04-2005, 12:50 AM
My legs are all muscle, but my stomach is all flab. =P

It's very important to wear something flattering, as well as wear good support underneath your costume. By flattering, I don't mean big and baggy. You can wear clothing that's snug-fitting around area's you're happy with. One of my favorite tops is lycra/spandex (stretchy stuff) and it's snug fitting around my bustline, but it's also long and accentuates my curves. It's also not very tight across the stomach either... just enough for it to look nice. ^_^

You can pretty much wear most costumes if you make a few alterations to them. By lengthening hemlines, using thicker fabric, and wearing good support underneath, you can do a lot. It takes time and practice to figure out what works on you. So don't expect to pump out something gorgeous at first. My first costumes looked horrible on me, but I didn't have this knowledge at the time!

Also, I'm really impressed by your story. I can't believe your ex wanted you to loose that much weight. That's horrible. The weight you said you were at before those issues sounds about what you should weigh for 5'4". He was horrible for making you loose that much. It's great that you have a really supportive boyfriend now who stresses being healthy instead of skinny.

Karisu-sama
02-04-2005, 01:01 AM
all of them have told me I shouldnt go until I get skinny (xD Im 5'4" and weigh 190 pounds) I was wondering if this is true?
No, it's not true. Your "friends" are spouting nonsense if they say that. Go, cosplay, and have fun. ^^

Kaijugal
02-04-2005, 01:14 AM
I have been mentioning to a few of my friends that cosplay and go to cons that I plan on going to one in the near future and all of them have told me I shouldnt go until I get skinny (xD Im 5'4" and weigh 190 pounds) I was wondering if this is true?
The last thing I want to do is show up and be yelled at for being large I have enough self esteem issues as it is
any feed back would be helpful

Total Nonsense!!!

There is no specific weight you have to be to attend conventions or cosplay. Take it from me, and I weigh quite a bit more than you and have a fantastic time costuming/cosplaying.

DO NOT LET OTHERS HOLD YOU BACK. I made that mistake for several years when I was younger and I regret missing those fun times.

GO. Have fun. Be Proud of who you are!

avskull
02-04-2005, 01:16 AM
Wear what fits and is comfortable; people need to stop dictating what good or bad, as long as nothing exposed then its find. People are more then just clothes. Friends shouldnít be hassling over clothes other people are wearing; they canít be shallow about the clothes that your wear.

Kaijugal right don't let them hold you back, it not your responsibility to be sad for others.

Suguishi
02-04-2005, 01:36 AM
In the costume making world, no matter if you're plus size or whatever,carftmanship is the most important. In a masquerade (the ones where they KNOW what they're doing instead of guessing, like many low low lowLOW quality masquerades) contest, your costuming skills is what will win you the contest, it has NOTHING to do with your weight.

Also, cosplay is all about having fun. Go out there and show them what you're made of ^_^ A LOT of peopel thinks man-faye is sexy ne?? ^_~

If you really do feel that you cannot cosplay because you're plus size, remember, with a will, anything is possible. I purposely loose weight because I want to do a more convincing cosplay (trying to look like a character). I lost 40+ lbs ^_~ DDR, salad, and water for 4 months. It's all in your mind. Remeber, a strong Will matters the world to WHATEVER you do.

I'm not a particularly good cosplayer or anything, but I do know that I LOVE what I do, and if it takes people 30% to do what they do, I don't care if I will have to do 120% more... if I can level or be better, or even worse, but if I'm satisfied... I consider myself a winner.

avskull
02-04-2005, 02:17 AM
People who have the confidence to break social misgiving rules have my respect way more then pretty people. If you like what youíre doing and youíre not harming other then keep doing it.

kynthiamoon
02-04-2005, 02:30 AM
Ok I have some 'dissenting' factors here. Be prepared to get a little flack about being +sized at a con. Sadly it happens. Don't make that change your mind though, there isn't ANY reason you shouldn't cosplay. I'm a pretty hefty girl myself (just look at my gallery) and I love to cosplay. All I am saying is that while you will get a lot of good comments about cosplaying, there's always going to be a few people at a con complaining about your weight. It happens. Just don't let that bother you as obviously, they aren't worth it. *Is still trying to take own advice* I just don't want you going in thinking everything's going to be perfect, then get crushed by that one dumb person who thinks it's even thier problem what you weigh.

As for your friends, They are either afraid of something hurting you like that one dumb person, or they aren't very nice themselves. Since you said they say things like that all the time it's leading me to think the latter, and that they aren't happy with themselves, using you as a distractng scape goat. Kudos on your boy though. ^_^ Healthy is good, thin isn't always.

avskull
02-04-2005, 03:46 AM
Friends who are ashamed of their own friends are not good friends. Anyways there nothing wrong with different kinds of body types. Itís the person's personality that important, its easy to hang around people with good personailtys.

janmurphy
02-04-2005, 06:24 AM
Totally not true. Many of my friends (and myself included) are plus-sized, and we all cosplay.

However, as plus-size people, we face more challenges making our costumes look good and suit our body. Think about the costume and think about what works with the shape you are, and make adjustments. It's not a crime, and if you look better in it (even if it's not 100% accurate to a *2D* figure), you'll feel better about it. There are a few threads for the larger-sized figure. Just search the forums a bit, and you'll find them.


I agree, its really hard as a plus sized person to get the costume to look correct proportionally. I know cosplay is for fun and it's great to be involved in, but honestly, my size if a factor when I choose my costume. I have to be more selective when deciding which costume I can make well AND wear well. I wont just say, 'oh that's my favorite character, thus Ill cosplay that." I have to consider if I can make it look right on me just as much as I would consider if I have the skills to make it. To me accuracy in a costume is key and I want shape accuracy as much as style accuracy, it's hard to do, and I sometimes fail. I have lots of favorite characters though, lots of favorite outfits (from characters I donít even know but just love the design) lots of costumes to choose from. I donít feel hindered by my weight but I DO have to remind my self that I simply won't look good in certain things because of it.

Sometimes this doesnít kick in though. Sometimes you see a costume or character design and you just *die* of wanting to create THAT. Thatís not something you should brush aside on account of weight, thatís the kind of obsessed feeling artists need to make great things, work with that. Its a great feeling. The idea I have is to make that costume work with who I am, instead of going for accuracy. Its a different kind of costume for me, and it doesn't happen too often.

For some reason unknown to me some people actually get angry at me for this. They say I should do whatever character I want, never realizing that I DO the characters I want, just not all of them. And donít get me wrong, Iím not saying other people cant do whatever costume their heart desires, Iím not them I donít make their decisions. But I am saying that whatever costume you do you should be aware of how it looks on you, no matter what your size, big or small and there are lots of costumes out there. The canvas you start with is just as important to the final look of the piece as is the paint but most important is the spirit to do it!

Eleryth
02-04-2005, 08:47 AM
Wow, really well said, Jan! d^_^b Thumbs up. I especially like this part:
They say I should do whatever character I want, never realizing that I DO the characters I want, just not all of them.

And that's a really good point to keep in mind. There are just so many costumes on my own want-to-do list, that I can choose which ones will work best for my body, and still not run out of costumes.

ilumiari
02-04-2005, 09:14 AM
Barely a day passes where mum doesn't tell me that I'm overweight. It doesn't stop me cosplaying who I want to. I just wouldn't do Rikku or something that I know I would feel uncomfortable in. Hey, most stick thin girls aren't brave enough to pull her off.

Does anyone you know have actual anime proportions?

Sakura
02-04-2005, 09:45 AM
I'm glad there's lots of support out there for this. I don't think cosplaying should be based on weight at all >/ That's horrible that people feel the need to point it out sometimes. When I first started cosplaying I was chubby at 156 so it did limit my costumes but when I got down to 124 during the summer of '02 I *STILL* didn't wear revealing costumes because I still had bad self esteem which was caused by OTHER people >_< but as Miyu said, just choose things that will flatter you ^^

Also, it CAN go the other way around- people say that they don't wanna see chubby girl's showing their midriffs but who wants to see some super skinny girl's ribcage or chicken legs? I'm not saying this to be mean, just being a devil's advocate or whatever.

adachi_momo
02-04-2005, 09:54 AM
Hey ^^ I just saw this thread and -had- to comment on it.

I'm not thin, but I'm not plus sized (I'm about an eleven - thirteen or so in pant size), but I totally support this. No one should be critisized for their weight at all, much less be told that they shouldn't cosplay (certain outfits just some girls shouldn't wear, but I don't even wanna see the skinny girls in dominatrix Tifa outfits in public x_X;; Those outfits in themselves are just...bleeeeeehhhh).

Screw what anybody else tells you - you guys are beautiful, not dispite what you weigh, but because of it too.

Keep on cosplaying and give hope to other people like yourselves!!!!!! I'll always be a fan!!! ^_________^

<3!!

SIT BOY!
02-04-2005, 09:56 AM
dont let your weight stop you darkdragonfly

im 200 pounds right now and ive been walking my dog and exersising and im hoping to be at least 150 before a-kon 17 cause im cosplaying toboe from wolfs rain but if im not the weight i wanna be by then im still gonna cosplay him

Tia
02-04-2005, 12:17 PM
Weight honestly isn't an issue for Toboe. As long as you have a reliable method for binding. Honestly, the most popular and well-known Toboe isn't stick thin like him. I haven't seen anybody do Toboe better than her, either. It's not a revealing costume in the least, and it's actually a good choice for a heavier cosplayer because it's baggy. It's all about what you put into the costume.

DarkDragonfly
02-04-2005, 02:03 PM
wow thank you all so much I really didnt expect to have so many positive repsonses

Starfyre
02-04-2005, 02:07 PM
also, maybe you should sit down and have a heart-to-heart with your friends. a lot of the feedback i'm seeing here is very negative towards their supposed opinions. perhaps they are just trying to protect you? maybe they're looking out for you? maybe they don't want you to end up feeling embarassed if someone at a con says something mean to you about the costume that you wear there? in my opinion, the people on this thread are being very harsh on your friends although they don't even know them. it could be that your friends are just trying to look out for you, and they are doing it in a way that could be.. expressed more positively. sometimes our friends try to do something good, but it just comes out all wrong.

Well I agree, she should talk to them, its what I did and didnt make any difference. Its not that we are judging them (or at least I know I am not). I merely referenced my life and said what I had done, hoping she can realize its not so bad if she decides she doesnt want them as friends anymore. She shouldnt take our annecdotes as law or what she should do, but at least realize that she hasnt been alone in what transpired with her. But yes she does need to talk to them, for it could simply be a misunderstanding of huge proportions. Anyways wanted to explain.

DarkDragonfly
02-04-2005, 02:11 PM
I talked to them this morning and they seemed like they didnt relize they were hurting me They said they wouldnt do it again knowingly

avskull
02-04-2005, 07:39 PM
I talked to them this morning and they seemed like they didnt relize they were hurting me They said they wouldnt do it again knowingly

Be careful with them, Make sure their not just stringing you along.
No one likes to be used

Bobbi
02-04-2005, 08:21 PM
It's not a revealing costume in the least, and it's actually a good choice for a heavier cosplayer because it's baggy. It's all about what you put into the costume.

Well it's not always baggy is good. Infact, sometimes it's better to wear fitted and well tailored costumes instead of throwing on anything that's baggy and covers up everything. It really depends on your own body though. Two people may weigh something around 200 lbs. One person might be very round, while the other still has an hourglass like figure. The rounder shaped person probably wouldn't look good in the same costumes that the hourglass shaped person would. It really varies from person to person.

As for me, I have really toned legs up to about my extreme upper thighs... so I can get away with shorter skirts and shorts, as long as the top I'm wearing is longer so that it adds length to my torso, while the shirt or skirt I'm wearing doesn't. If I wear shoes with an elevated heel, it makes my legs look longer... so in the long run, I look a lot thinner. That's just with everyday clothes, not just with costumes.

It really comes down to using a few tricks and what you've got to give the illusion of being a bit better shaped than what you already are. Of course, there's nothing wrong with liking your shape. Just make sure you choose things that don't make you look like you have a completely different shape. Horizontal lines on a costume or just clothes make a skinny and tall person look less tall and more curvy. While on an already curvy person, it just makes them look very wide. So they should go for vertical lines. Lengthening hemlines will add more vertical to a very horizontal costume too. The bottom line is that vertical lines accentuate curves and gives a more streamline appearance, while horizontal lines broaden. So you have to do some serious planning when it comes to designing a costume that will look good on you.

Dark_Anime_San
02-04-2005, 08:33 PM
you wont be yealled at alot of cosplayers are over weight most cosplayers are nice and some have stuf in common and not all of them are skinny ...cosplaying is just for fun not to be made fun of

Lady
02-04-2005, 08:56 PM
I'll be totally blunt and totally honest here.

1. Yes, some people will make fun of you. Chances are they won't do it within earshot, but it will happen. IT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE AT SOME POINT IN TIME. Don't sweat it.

2. As long as you dress in a way to flatter your figure, and you spend time and effort on your outfit, the vast majority of people will accept you and be happy to see your outfit. THIS GOES FOR ALL SIZES AND SHAPES. I've seen some amazing outfits by overweight people and some crappy ones done by "pretty" people. I'm not a perfect figure by a long shot, but I do my best to make clothing that as is flattering as possible for my figure (hide the negatives, accentuate the positives)

Tia
02-04-2005, 09:06 PM
Hmm. I didn't think of that. From what you say, I can see how it depends on both body type and weight. Something else to add to your tips: I've noticed that if I compare a regular skirt that doesn't poof out extra at the bottom and one that when it gets down about halfway to my knees I poof out a few inches, the poofed one looks better. And v-necks seem to work well, too.

I understand about the baggy issue. I agree, costumes seem to wear better when they are tailored precisely to you. I think that's true for anybody, though. It's just a more obvious issue for overweight cosplayers.

OoTLink
02-04-2005, 10:14 PM
I think you guys can stop slamming the "Build a FLATTERING outfit!" thing on people, because guess what...

Anyone in the right mind will make the costumes as flattering as they can, that's normal. I don't know anyone, especially within cosplay, that would deliberately make a costume that made them look "fatter" lol.

megumibish
02-04-2005, 10:54 PM
quote:
In the costume making world, no matter if you're plus size or whatever,carftmanship is the most important. In a masquerade (the ones where they KNOW what they're doing instead of guessing, like many low low lowLOW quality masquerades) contest, your costuming skills is what will win you the contest, it has NOTHING to do with your weight.

I have to say this is very true. I'm a big girl myself and for my first ever con and cosplay at masquerade got me a Judge's award from Lillyxandra. (Proof that skill itself stands more than figure alone.) I deem this a good award being she has such high level construction on her own costumes. And being a cosplayer she had a good understanding of what looked good and how such and such was made. Not a random VA award for being entertaining or something. I'm not knocking all VA given awards.

Chibi Plush Toy
02-04-2005, 10:56 PM
Uhmm yeah this sort of topic has been threaded waaaay too many times. However, you shouldn't listen to the negative things people say about you!! Really :)

Eleryth
02-05-2005, 09:03 AM
I think you guys can stop slamming the "Build a FLATTERING outfit!" thing on people, because guess what...

Anyone in the right mind will make the costumes as flattering as they can, that's normal. I don't know anyone, especially within cosplay, that would deliberately make a costume that made them look "fatter" lol.


No one I intentionally know of will make an outfit that will make them look bigger than they are. HOWEVER, many people aren't sure if they should change the outfit to suit them, because many times "accuracy" is stressed in the cosplay/costuming community. Altering an outfit to suit your body isn't always accurate, and some people aren't sure if they should take that route.

As well, as with many beginners, it's not always something they think about when making a costume. I know it's something I've only started paying attention to recently. Previously, I was more worried about how accurate I could make something, not necessarily if I looked my absolute best in it, even if it required some altering.

Also, there's some things that people have to pay more attention to when choosing/altering the costumes. As Bobbi mentioned, paying attention to vertical and horizontal lines. It's not necessarily intuitive. So all we're trying to do is give some advice and assistance to send them in the right direction.

Besides, as mentioned many times in a thread with semi-heated discussion, many costumes were singled out on a webpage, mainly about construction issues (as I understand it), but if so many were pointed out, it obviously means not everyone is paying as much attention to the construction of their costume, or necessarily has the knowledge to make it as flattering as possible on their individual figures as it could be.

Oselle
02-05-2005, 10:05 AM
Anyone in the right mind will make the costumes as flattering as they can, that's normal. I don't know anyone, especially within cosplay, that would deliberately make a costume that made them look "fatter" lol.

To me there is a very distinct difference between making a costume flattering and deliberately making a costume that would make you look "fatter." That is too much of a generalization, and I think what people are trying to get across are some of the methods that people new to costuming can use that will help them make their work even more lovely. Ideas like where to lengthen hems/emphasize vertical lines/etc., are likely not obvious to the beginner. And people posting ideas like this aren't claiming we're pros, we're just talking about what works for us.

Like Eleryth, I've recently discovered ways that a costume can be tailored to suit one's body better (perhaps at the expense of a little accuracy, but in my mind, a flattering but slightly inaccurate outfit will draw a much more positive response than otherwise).

Yes, the idea this thread has been built on has been discussed ad nauseum...but people still struggle with body type and body image, so to me it's still relevent. At least we're providing positive and constructive feedback.

Celebrimbor
02-05-2005, 12:09 PM
I'm gonna go way outside the discussion norm here, and if anyone has a problem with that... well, this is the proper thread for me to voice my opinion in. So don't get all "zomg you should be banned!"

The only thing that detracted from my first ACEN experience was the plenthora of overweight cosplayers, cosplaying characters that are orders of magnitude smaller then they are.

Even the Baron Harkonnen had the good taste to dress in robes and loose garments when appearing in public...

Because the last thing anyone wants to see at a convention is a 400 lb Nadia.

Bobbi
02-05-2005, 12:32 PM
I'm gonna go way outside the discussion norm here, and if anyone has a problem with that... well, this is the proper thread for me to voice my opinion in. So don't get all "zomg you should be banned!"

The only thing that detracted from my first ACEN experience was the plenthora of overweight cosplayers, cosplaying characters that are orders of magnitude smaller then they are.

Even the Baron Harkonnen had the good taste to dress in robes and loose garments when appearing in public...

Because the last thing anyone wants to see at a convention is a 400 lb Nadia.

So? Your average american person is going to be a whole heck of a lot bigger than the character was in the series/game or whatever. Many forget that the Japanese are TINY. Even an overweight and "fat" japanese woman would weigh a lot less than your average plus-sized (aka "fat") american woman. Most japanese women weigh about 95-115 lbs or so, and are very tiny. Your average american woman weighs about 145 and wears a size 12.

If you're overweight, you should avoid loose robes. It just makes you look bigger. Though you shouldn't go for tight or snug unless you have good supportive undergarments to smooth everything out, if you have the right kind of body to do that. On a round person, that wouldn't work, but on a curvy person it would. Overall, overweight people should go for tailored and streamlined costumes because it's what's flattering.

Quite honestly, I've been to about 15 cons, and I've never once seen a 400 lb Nadia, or a 400 lb cosplayer who wore something extremely tight. Most people of that size know not to do that. I was at Acen last year, and I never saw anything of that sort. o_O Besides maybe Sailor Bubba, but that was done in that way on purpose. I have however, seen a 200 lb-ish person doing costumes that weren't flattering on them, but it could've looked really nice if they just made a few adjustments instead of go for complete and total accuracy.

I'm about 170-180, and I've cosplayed Yuna and Rinoa (and I want to do several more of their outfits with adjustments made for my body) so in your opinion is that too big to be wearing that kind of stuff? I don't think I am, because I think I make good decisions when it comes to altering costumes. You're bound to see me at Acen... so make your judgements then. =P

Oselle
02-05-2005, 02:58 PM
Because the last thing anyone wants to see at a convention is a 400 lb Nadia.

Something tells me that your opinion of cosplayers bigger than your ideal picture isn't limited to 400 lb Nadias. (Which I've never seen either).

So what's the cutoff, in your opinion? What should us bigger folk be allowed to wear? Would a skinny Nadia with a poorly constructed costume be okay?Do you think that no tradeoffs should be made between accuracy and appropriate-to-figure? I won't apologize for being frank, as I'm getting very frustrated with shortsighted comments and rudeness for the sake of being rude.

I agree that sometimes bad choices are made, and the costumes aren't well tailored to a body type. But instead of being negative, I choose to (a) make reasonable costume choices, (b) continue to learn how to tailor things to my figure, and (c) encourage others to do so too.

Tia
02-05-2005, 09:14 PM
Quite frankly, I had been expecting him to reply in a similar fashion to this in this thread earlier.

janmurphy
02-05-2005, 09:16 PM
I mostly agree with Oselle. But if you are looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants to see accuracy, then yes, we are distorting the image of the character to suit ourselves. But if that distortion bothers someone to the point where they feel it's detracting from their con experience then thereís a problem. We're not all professionals and if would be a bit strange to expect us to be

Celebrimbor has given us a hardcore example of the other attitudes you will find at conventions. A lot of people at conventions really like seeing their favorite characters made totally real. The right body shape and the perfect costume. Its hard to live up to that ideal; so maybe theyíre rude when they see what they believe is a distortion of 'their' character. They're disappointed. Iím sure they know that their ideal is slightly unrealistic, not all conventions have a professional quality cosplay of each character. But Iím sure they feel a bit let down none-the-less. Perhaps they even feel disgusted when the image in their mind is a pre-pubescent Japanese girl and the reality of the cosplay is a 400lb woman. My advice is to get over it and move on. Telling us it detracts from your con experience simply tells the rest of us how superficial you are. But then, if your ok with being that way, then that's you and Ill be me thanks.

On a different note perhaps Celebrimbor would like to discuss how difficult it is for a hefty adult to accurately cosplay a small child?

さ。。。 兎馬もよろしゅいくめ。

avskull
02-05-2005, 11:53 PM
Just because something unpleasant for you doesnít mean you have to let other people know how you feel, if itís not physically harming you.

kynthiamoon
02-06-2005, 01:20 AM
Just because something unpleasant for you doesn’t mean you have to let other people know how you feel, if it’s not physically harming you.

I love that! I wish I said that to a girl back in my first year at Sakura Con. lol.
Anyway, weight is almost always going to be an issue for cosplay, sadly. Like put into words above by 'I was distressed' commentor, lots of people seem to have ideals for a lot of characters. Since none of us are 2d characters, we can't reach that ideal if we are fat/skinny or just plain human. Some can get close, but let's face it, We aren't some character someone thought up, we are ourselves. Most of us go into a con knowing this when we cosplay. It's time for those who are viewing us cosplaying to figure that out too. I'm sorry for ruining your dream about so-and-so character, but you know what? It's just a DREAM.

avskull
02-06-2005, 01:25 AM
Sometimes these day, the youngster become shallow but how does putting other people down make anything better. the Person who said something bad will mostly feel guilty, and the person who receives it will be hurt, no one wins.

Celebrimbor
02-06-2005, 01:41 AM
Something tells me that your opinion of cosplayers bigger than your ideal picture isn't limited to 400 lb Nadias. (Which I've never seen either).

So what's the cutoff, in your opinion?

That's a very good question. Letsee...

If I had to tack it down to a number, I'd say... a BMI* of 26 or higher for 'revealing' clothing, and say, 32 for anything else.

*Body Mass Index: weight in kilos divided by height squared, in meters.


Now, I know it doesn't matter, because I'm male and men don't have anything cool to cosplay. But even I have the common sense to not make my own eva plugsuit, because I'm not built for it.

avskull
02-06-2005, 01:46 AM
How would you treat someone who is breaking your arbitrary BMI rules?

Celebrimbor
02-06-2005, 01:52 AM
How would you treat someone who is breaking your arbitrary BMI rules?

I'd tell them to see a doctor...

See, my 'guidelines', such as they are, are also the cutoffs for the World Health Organization's definitions of Overweight and Obese, respectively.

A person isn't living healthly at those levels, and should take drastic action to correct it.

avskull
02-06-2005, 01:57 AM
so you guess their bmi on the spot then tell them if they should go to a doctor, maybe their already getting help and they dont need the extra feedback.

Some people with mid range BMI could have a worst body condition then people 30 ish, 30 is the cutoff by the way. Height to body weigh is only one factor itís not all the information to give you reason to suggest a people go see a doctor.

Celebrimbor
02-06-2005, 02:02 AM
(Shrug)

There is one cosplay that anyone can do without risk of drawing my ire...

Tachikoma.

avskull
02-06-2005, 02:07 AM
Tachikoma, so should you be angry if someone doesnít costume as a robot spider from ghost in shell.

Celebrimbor
02-06-2005, 02:11 AM
Tachikoma, so should you be angry if someone doesnít costume as a robot spider from ghost in shell.

No, you misread the statement.

Tachikoma is about, oh, the size of a forklift. I seriously doubt there's a person on the planet who COULDN'T cosplay Tachikoma. If there was, they'd have surely died of a massive heart attack by now.

avskull
02-06-2005, 02:14 AM
No, you misread the statement.

Tachikoma is about, oh, the size of a forklift. I seriously doubt there's a person on the planet who COULDN'T cosplay Tachikoma. If there was, they'd have surely died of a massive heart attack by now.

Restate what you mean, I donít want to misinterpret you

Celebrimbor
02-06-2005, 02:25 AM
(Shrug)

There is one cosplay that anyone can do without risk of drawing my ire...

Tachikoma.
Tachikoma, so should you be angry if someone doesnít costume as a robot spider from ghost in shell.

Your response doesn't make sense. I made the declaration that Tachikoma is a costume that any cosplayer of any physical dimension can cosplay without drawing my ire. Your response asks the opposite, and doesn't even do so with proper grammar. Although with a second review, I'm beginning to see what you were asking.

kynthiamoon
02-06-2005, 02:28 AM
I know a few doctors who state that the BMI isn't something to base everything on. Healthy lifestyle is about your lifestyle, your eating habits, and your excercise habits. That's not always in corralation with your weight. It's been proven that thin people with a bad lifestyle are in a LOT worse health than some fat people with a good lifestyle.
Weight can have a lot of factors too it too.

Hormones can make a large part in your weight. If a guy has too much estrogen, he can be pretty heafty with 'man boobies' same goes for a girl with too much testaterone (I can't spell) of course she won't have 'man boobies' lol, but she can have a lot of extra poundage and in both cases unless the hormones are fixed, theres very little dieting or excercise that'll take off that excess.

Thyroid problems are another weight contributing factor having nothing to do with lifestyle.

It's up to a person to decide if they need to see a docter for weight issues not some random con goer.

avskull
02-06-2005, 02:35 AM
Celebrimbor interesting, ire means deep anger, but how can you be angry for another persons problems if they dont directly effect you.

Loki-sama
02-06-2005, 02:50 AM
I'll be the example in saying that health does not correlate with weight. I'm 5'4 and 124 lbs. and I can be easily outrun by my Dad, who is technically on the BMI borderline obesse. He outruns me horribly so and I can barely make up up the stairs in my school without losing my breath.

So yea, they don't go hand in hand anymore and if you go to different doctors, their BMIs are all different.

FruBaNoKyo
02-06-2005, 03:31 AM
well.... everyone seems to be arguing this into the ground.... lol in my opinon... people are who they are.... i may be a larger girl, but if you come up to me and say that i need to visit my doctor because of it, i'm liable to tell ya off on the spot. honestly, if you're happy with yourself the way you are, then good for you! if not, no one can change that but you. i don't need every joe schmoe telling me that just because i don't fit their standards of what looks good or what is "normal" that i should change just for them. nobody does.... and nobody likes it. they should think before they say, "OMG you look like a zeplin in that naga outfit, i think i'm gunna hurl" because how would they react if you said right back to them, "well, f*ck you in the ear, because you look like every other (insert popular cosplay) here only 1000000000 times worse because your nose is too big and oh, look, i think you may have my rusty pencil sticking ouy of your eye!"??? really, people THINK! not everyone can look like the "ideal" cosplayer.... and rarely is there even such a thing!

also, if i see a costume i would DIE to make, but i know it would look putrid on me... (ie shuichi's yellow outfit) then, ya know what.... i'll make it.... but for someone else! i'll say to one of my friends, "hey, you, get over here and let me take our measurements..." because, maybe i woun't look stunning in that outfit, but you know what... they might... and i get double satisfaction... i got to make it, and they're happy because they get a costume, and that makes me happy!

Bobbi
02-06-2005, 04:11 AM
Okay... what gives you the right to judge what kind of costumes anyone should be wearing based on BMI? BMI doesn't factor in bone structure or amount of muscle one has on their body. A person can be overweight, but can also have a heck of a lot of muscle on them. Of course they're going to weigh more because muscle weighs more than fat... and genetically larger bones are going to weigh more. It's based on averages, and is not always the case with everyone. Everyone's situations are different, BMI doesn't address that.

Furthermore, what do you consider revealing? What is not revealing?

For the record, I consider revealing being something like a bikini, anything showing more than an inch or two of the midriff area, or extremely tight fitting clothes. Honestly, most people who are overweight do take this into account, and they won't wear revealing clothes. But big huge baggy things don't do anything for the person's figure besides make them look bigger... which is what an overweight person should avoid doing.

Honestly, if you think all people who have a BMI over 32 should only wear big huge robes, then I suggest not going to anime conventions, or leaving your house for that matter. If it "ires" you so much, why do you choose to put yourself in the middle of it? Win the lottery, bribe all the scantily clad cosplayers with a BMI of 28 or less you can find and get them to come to an exclusive island so you can gawk at them all day in geeky costumes. Get over it man. =P There's much more important things to be angry about.

janmurphy
02-06-2005, 04:22 AM
Ok, so far Celebrimborくん's argument is that if you are unhealthily fat, then it should affect what clothing you wear. Backed up by the BMI. So since he's backing himself up with the a medical justification, how does this work? I should cover myself up to stay warm because that's more healthy?
If you think its visually disgusting to look at an overweight person in a skimpy outfit, have the ぎんたま to say it then. Don't disillusion yourself that you have some kind of intelligent justification for it.
There are a lot more visually offensive things then showing someone an overweight tummy. Heck, most people here seem to find you intellectually disgusting.
I was even willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in my earlier post, since larger people are indeed distorting the image of the character. But seriously? Risk of drawing your ire? Do you actually mean to suggest that if we are too large we should confine our cosplays to mechs? I earnestly hope you don't believe yourself to be worldly or intelligent or I would never be arguing the point of what people 'should do' with you.
Now that I have actually gotten angry about it, Im sorry if I was rude because anger is counter-productive to actual discussion. I had to write it out, Ill come back later when Im calm and prehaps Ill be able to express myself better then. しつれします。
みんなもよろしくね。

RoxyDirKaoru
02-06-2005, 04:34 AM
O.O I'm shocked that your own friends said that! You should not listen to them, I'm not overweight but I got some friends that is and I just say big and beautiful ^^ Go to the cons yopu want and show off!

ilumiari
02-06-2005, 09:25 AM
I second what she said. I was always a lil more cushier than my other friends, and thought nothing of it, until they started making comments. At first didnt want to think much of it, but they just kept saying it regardless of me telling them look I dont criticize you do i? So I just decided to heck with it, if the only reason I am being here is because you are my friends but you are just making me feel low--then your not my friends and I dumped them on their butts. I have been much happier since, made a great new bunch of friends and it does a world of difference.


Something like this happened with me too. For 5 years at school I 'hung' with the same group - the group that was the least superficial, and upto yr 11 no one cared how anyone else looked. From about mid yr11 that changed, and towards the start of yr 12 some of them decieded that it was a good idea to vote on who was prettiest in the group. The fact that they could even come up with such a shallow way to pass the time really, really pissed me off. When the 'voting slips' were handed out I just walked away. From then on I haven't really had a proper friendship group, but I would rather have no friends then shallow, superficial ones.

The drawbacks of going to a private school. :lost:

Tia
02-06-2005, 01:38 PM
Honestly, if the only reason you are on this website is to ogle the women you value as "pretty" or "hot" and verbally attack those who are not, that is losing the point of this website. I'm sorry, but there is this thing called "reality," and if you cannot grasp that and/or actually care about the merit of costumes as opposed to how hot someone looks, you don't deserve to be on this website.

FruBaNoKyo
02-06-2005, 01:42 PM
Honestly, if the only reason you are on this website is to ogle the women you value as "pretty" or "hot" and verbally attack those who are not, that is losing the point of this website. I'm sorry, but there is this thing called "reality," and if you cannot grasp that and/or actually care about the merit of costumes as opposed to how hot someone looks, you don't deserve to be on this website. *high five* well said, sister!

Bobbi
02-06-2005, 01:45 PM
Something like this happened with me too. For 5 years at school I 'hung' with the same group - the group that was the least superficial, and upto yr 11 no one cared how anyone else looked. From about mid yr11 that changed, and towards the start of yr 12 some of them decieded that it was a good idea to vote on who was prettiest in the group. The fact that they could even come up with such a shallow way to pass the time really, really pissed me off. When the 'voting slips' were handed out I just walked away. From then on I haven't really had a proper friendship group, but I would rather have no friends then shallow, superficial ones.

The drawbacks of going to a private school. :lost:

Well, once you get to college, most people don't care what you look like or what you're into. The superficialness isn't as predominant as it was in high school. I don't think I had many real long-lasting friends in high school, besides the ones I still have. All of my relationships back then were very short-lived. I just wanted companionship, and a lot of guys I dated took that as me being desperate and wanting "other things", which was far from the truth... so I was dumped a lot for not giving it up. *rolls eyes* I didn't have a long-lasting (a year or more) relationship until my 2nd/3rd year of college.

Though I think this thread has proven that some people just never mentally leave high school.

MissSCeleste
02-06-2005, 02:48 PM
Hey there! New to the community and this was the first topic that caught my interest! I've noticed a steady trend of elitist style cosplayers having negative things to say to other cosplayers behind there back when I attend cons as a cosplay judge, guest, or just vendor (for my comics) and I think the whole thing is rather immature and silly! You can be any weight and create a costume that is disturbingly unattractive or really very flattering, and it all has to do with where you draw attention to on your body, what colors you use, and how well you use the material, NOT the weight. The weight only ends up looking bad, because the placement of the design is done poorly and makes a part of the body it's focused on look terrible instead of terrific. This is something that should be obvious, but it's overshadowed by the obession with weight in this country. We have alot of extremes that are unhealthy, from anorexic to obese, because everyone is self concious about there weight, skinny, fat, or somewhere inbetween.

I don't know how much this will make you feel better, and something you might want to mention to your good "friends" there if they try to argue with you, is that I'm 180 pounds, 5'8, and I get PAID to cosplay! By Military standard I am 45 pounds overweight.. But because I emphasize my hips and chest in my costumes I am complimented every day on my figuire! I hope this is something you'll think about. The only reason you should worry about loosing weight is if you want to personally (for yourself) take care of your health for older age, as the more weight you have the more problems you could possibly have with your heart later on and women have a higher rate of blood clots in there legs if there overweight, but do not starve yourself! I hate that. Excercise is the only healthy way to loose weight, and not eating to many of hte wrong kinds of fat. Even people going on this carbohydrate kick is pissing me off. We need carbs to gain muscle mass. Everyone so hell bent on loosing weight, they'll substitute there abilities to have healthy muscle weight just to be able to say there "This much thinner".

Disturbing really.

Anyway, I know I'm sounding like an echo of previous posts here but as long as you create something flattering to your figuire you'll be fine. I've never had anyone tell me I'm to big for my costumes, except for my crazy tackless boss at work who wants me to wear belly dancer outfits that show my stomach which I won't so I purposely keep on just enough weight so I don't have to wear clothes that make me feel like I'm selling off my body to the world. yuck. -_-;

Manda
02-06-2005, 07:27 PM
Oh God. Tell them to bugger off. There's absolutely nothing wrong with overweight cosplayers. I was one for many, many years. If you feel good and like your costume, you shouldn't care what other people think.

tsuki-moon
02-06-2005, 07:48 PM
my goodness, if they are saying that they aren't very good friends!

anyway, i think what matters most is how good your *cosplay* is, not how big or small you are. like, if you cosplay sailor starfighter or rikku and are very overweight, it would not be a good cosplay. but if you just go, and choose something that will not accentuate the weight, you will see there are lots of bigger cosplayers at cons, and lots of people who will love your cosplay :3

...if your friends are saying stuff like that to you all the time, hell you should go to the con and make some new friends who aren't as mean, lol! meanies suck T_T

ayareinami*YAY*
02-07-2005, 04:23 PM
i completely agree with what everyone is saying~weight should NOT matter when cosplaying. its terrible that ur friends would say something like that(even if they have apoligized and stopped)!!!!

also,ive kinda been hurt by reading this thread.Im 5'7,90 pounds,and stick thin- theres nothing i can do about it, and ive tried every thing just to gain a pound. ppl come up to me everyday saying how annorexic and skinny i am~and its NOT a compliment, especially if when i dont have an eating disorder.

Tia
02-07-2005, 07:22 PM
Yeah, it's really sad how eating disorders are encouraged by the world today, trying to push women into this impossible ideal. I've found that very frequently the way you look doesn't exactly determine self esteem. It makes me sick how the media's standard of beauty is used to turn women against themselves. Regardless of how you look, if you love yourself and you have confidence in who you are, you can be happy.

I think if people looked within themselves more and stopped taking their own problems out on others, the world would be a much happier place. People who abuse others do it because they (whether they know or admit it) feel powerless and want to regain some form of power. So they find something about you and use it against you. They're just cowards because they are too afraid to deal with themselves. People can only hold power over you if you let them, though. Don't get sucked into society's pit of lies. Live for yourself.

esantiago7292
02-07-2005, 07:31 PM
cosplay is cosplay if they dont like it because you are a little bigger then the character size is then dont listen to their comments

Evolution
02-08-2005, 10:08 PM
Oh, I'm all for this one...I'm hanging in here at 6'2" and 288 lbs, and there's not a lot I can do...so what do I end up doing??? Not caring...I almost went as Bridget from GGXX Fame just because it seemed fun...I can't stand typecast-cosplay...I feel for y'alls, 'cause I'm right there with you...

strawberrykitte
02-08-2005, 10:30 PM
I have been mentioning to a few of my friends that cosplay and go to cons that I plan on going to one in the near future and all of them have told me I shouldnt go until I get skinny (xD Im 5'4" and weigh 190 pounds) I was wondering if this is true?
The last thing I want to do is show up and be yelled at for being large I have enough self esteem issues as it is
any feed back would be helpful


No! Dont listen to your friends....please by all means if you feel confortable doing any cosplay YOU want then hun GO FOR IT!!! DONT EVER THINK TWICE! DO WHAT YOU WANT HOW YOU WANNA! IF IT MIGHT SEEM LIKE A SKINNY GIRL WOULD WEAR IT YOU CAN TOO! DONT EVER FORGET THIS ONE THING.....cosplay isnt about how good you look...its about how you feel you look and how it makes you feel like the character even more......no matter what whoever you cosplay as you become.....take me for example....i used to be afraid that people would hate me if I cosplayed as Summoner Yuna Because Im Black....but everyone ive talked to about the matter has given me their full support and cant wait to see the results....SO hun regardless of what anyone says even if their your friends do what you think as being a cosplayer you would feel confertable in okay! Good luck with your cosplay I know you'll look beautiful....no matter what!
-Strawberrry Yuna

komadori
02-08-2005, 10:39 PM
Yeah, seriously. Don't get too caught up in it. Going for type-casting can be tremendously stressful - the number of characters that I've rejected (because they were Asian, or too voluptuous, or whatnot) is staggering. It was also very depressing. If you love a character, or a costume, and you want to participate in the fandom, then do it!

I once went to a convention and saw a woman, grossly obese (to the point where she needed a wheelchair) take first prize with her group for their skit. She managed to walk on her own for a few minutes, which was all that was necessary. What mattered was her skill in performance, her creativity, and her craftsmanship at needlepoint.

That she was able to discreetly conceal part of her obesity in the folds of her costume attest to her skill and innovation. People even less overweight than her looked worse because of poor judgement in how they chose to present themselves (myself included - I looked hideous that night).

I'm not saying that your condition is as serious as her's was, but don't be discouraged so easily from your hobby.

Gina Sadiren
02-09-2005, 05:31 PM
Your friends seem like my friends back when I was in school. I had the sort of the same problem last year going to otakon. I was worried about cosplaying because I'm short and plus-sized, so it all gathers in the middle. But you know, when I went to otakon, everyone there was really nice. They didn't really pay attention to my size. I even got some really great comments.

Just go and have fun, its all worth it in the end.

iheartanime
02-10-2005, 04:13 PM
i agree with all this, and the costume is what should determine the comments, not the person in the costume! Same goes for skinny people-i'm skinny, but i'm also short so it's not that big of a deal-and ugly people! who cares what the people look like!?

dustbunny
02-11-2005, 06:14 PM
Don't listen to them. Girl u should find a awsome character and costume that will show all ur curves. lol. It's what i do. I'm 5'6 and 180lbs. And it kicks ass!!
Big butt so what. ^^

chibimaru
02-11-2005, 11:00 PM
last year my sister and I went to NDK and we went in the costume contest and we found a FAT Goku! well i guess the food final caucht up to him!>.<

Miyu
02-11-2005, 11:45 PM
*exhale.*

despite the message that strawberry yuna and some others are trying to voice here, there is one obvious fact:

the way that an individual looks in a particular costume inherently MUST matter.

if it didn't matter... if we cosplayed in a utopian society wherein every body-type in every costume was socially acceptable.. there would not be threads like this one in existance. it's got to be a huge concern, or people wouldn't be asking about it.

so let's not put any blinders on. let's be honest. let's be real here, yes?

if you're overweight, don't wear something that you feel uncomfortable in. if you look in the mirror and see something that you don't consider to be aesthetically pleasing, then the chances that the other people attending the con will agree with you are undeniably great.

if you're 200 lbs and wearing a bikini, don't expect a lot of positive feedback. if you can admit to yourself that the opinions of others DO matter to you to any extent, then be realistic in what costumes you choose to wear. you may just loooove that character... but how much justice can you do him/her if you can't "fit the mold", so to speak? i know it sucks, but this is precisely what other people will be thinking in the back of their minds when they look at you. keep that in mind.

we can go on and on about how "cosplay is supposed to be fun! screw what everyone else thinks!", but is that the reality? ask yourself... is it? if none of these cosplayers cared what everyone else thinks about them, do you guys honestly think that they'd be posting topics such as this and many others? would they continue commenting in the member galleries in a persistant circle-jerk of compliments to one another regardless if the costumes pictured are even any good, if it didn't matter? probably not. cosplayers, like everyone else, are insecure about themselves and their bodies; and ever-so-eager to have their egos stroked.

fat, skinny, whatever. i think perhaps it matters.. other peoples' opinions matter, whether or not ya'll are willing to admit and accept that fact.

ultimately if there's something that you don't like about yourself, change it. change it or you will never be happy with yourself. this rule not only applies to cosplay, but to life in a general sense as well.

sorry if this is harsh, but i see that the redundancy of the replies in this topic are going nowhere constructive.

Karisu-sama
02-12-2005, 01:39 AM
so let's not put any blinders on. let's be honest. let's be real here, yes?The point is, that does not justify some tactless nuisance from singling out very heavy cosplayers (practically all of which I have seen dressed in a tastefully covering manner, whatever the skill quality of their costume manufacture) and insulting them about their weight to their faces. (Funny how it's always heavier women who seem to get the brunt of this "rancor", as opposed to heavier men...)

As I see it, this thread is not really about a hypothetical "400-pound person (man or woman) in a tiny bikini". This is not even about a hypothetical 200 pound person in a bikini (and some lovely women whom I have seen cosplaying are pushing 180-200 pounds - on a 5'11 or 6' frame, for example, that's not exactly "cetacean", and they COULD pull off a decent bikini plenty well enough, though most feel they are "too fat" to try any such thing.)

This is about people who seem to harbor the notion that heavier cosplayers should be shunned and hide their faces (and bodies!) from the world altogether rather than cosplay at all, even in a tastefully adapted costume.

I believe a "400lb Nadia" was mentioned somewhere on the board, with the implied assumption that someone heavy cosplaying that character would try to wear it as skimpy as the character drawing. Anyone who isn't shaped exactly like Nadia would have to make costume design modifications anyway (even a stick like me.) People want to look good - obviously most people are going to try to modify a costume in a way that works well with their own bodies.

And someone who has a well-balanced "Earth Mother" type figure is generally considered voluptuous, not grotesque.

Miyu
02-12-2005, 02:08 AM
The point is, that does not justify some tactless nuisance from singling out very heavy cosplayers (practically all of which I have seen dressed in a tastefully covering manner, whatever the skill quality of their costume manufacture) and insulting them about their weight to their faces. (Funny how it's always heavier women who seem to get the brunt of this "rancor", as opposed to heavier men...)

As I see it, this thread is not really about a hypothetical "400-pound person (man or woman) in a tiny bikini". This is not even about a hypothetical 200 pound person in a bikini (and some lovely women whom I have seen cosplaying are pushing 180-200 pounds - on a 5'11 or 6' frame, for example, that's not exactly "cetacean", and they COULD pull off a decent bikini plenty well enough, though most feel they are "too fat" to try any such thing.)

This is about people who seem to harbor the notion that heavier cosplayers should be shunned and hide their faces (and bodies!) from the world altogether rather than cosplay at all, even in a tastefully adapted costume.

I believe a "400lb Nadia" was mentioned somewhere on the board, with the implied assumption that someone heavy cosplaying that character would try to wear it as skimpy as the character drawing. Anyone who isn't shaped exactly like Nadia would have to make costume design modifications anyway (even a stick like me.) People want to look good - obviously most people are going to try to modify a costume in a way that works well with their own bodies.

And someone who has a well-balanced "Earth Mother" type figure is generally considered voluptuous, not grotesque.


wow. at face value, this reply seems to hold a rather venomous undertone in reponse to mine. i actually agree with what you've expressed, so hopefully i'm wrong in my initial assessment of your reply.

let me reiterate upon the point that i just made in layman's terms:

overweight costumers should wear things that they feel comfortable in. they should make whatever alterations necessary to result in having a costume that flatters their figure, as this will aid them in feeling comfortable while wearing it.

obviously, the opinions of strangers matter to many cosplayers in general, regardless of their builds. the typical opinion in this thread is "wear whatever you want! screw everyone else! it doesn't matter what other people think!". ...as that is all well and good, it is unfortunately not a reality. judging by the fact that this thread exists.. people DO care.

so ultimately, the situation is pretty futile unless we get to the root of the problem.

as for the "200 lb girl in a bikini" comment, it is absolutely true. if you are overweight or underweight and you expose yourself im public, you must be prepared for some negative responses. man-faye did his thing... some people loved it, others were disgusted by it. if the person wearing the bikini has a thick skin and can take criticism, then it should be no problem. :)

avskull
02-12-2005, 02:11 AM
we can go on and on about how "cosplay is supposed to be fun! screw what everyone else thinks!", but is that the reality? ask yourself... is it? if none of these cosplayers cared what everyone else thinks about them, do you guys honestly think that they'd be posting topics such as this and many others? would they continue commenting in the member galleries in a persistant circle-jerk of compliments to one another regardless if the costumes pictured are even any good, if it didn't matter? probably not. cosplayers, like everyone else, are insecure about themselves and their bodies; and ever-so-eager to have their egos stroked.



Each person can decide if they want to have fun doing what their doing. If there not having fun then they shouldnít cosplay because they would be wasting time doing something they didnít want to do. You can decide if you want to block out all the useless negative comment that are getting in the way of having fun. Everyone like receiving positive feed back and it doesnít take much to give positive feed back if you see good effort.

If you really donít want any ego stroking, then say in the description ďdonít post any commentsĒ and when your in public have a sign saying ďdonít say a word to me, or show any gesturesĒ
--------------------------
----------------------------

Miyu
02-12-2005, 02:12 AM
If you really donít want any ego stroking, then say in the description ďdonít post any commentsĒ and when your in public have a sign saying ďdonít say a word to me, or show any gesturesĒ


...or just don't post many of your pictures at all. ;)

Karisu-sama
02-12-2005, 02:16 AM
Ah, Miyu, you will have to excuse me; it is not actually you who is "drawing my ire" so to speak, but a previous poster (the one who made the "400lb Nadia" comment.) I am still annoyed at his attitude, and I think it colored the tone of my post more than I intended; my apologies.

But actually, I do have a friend who is 6' tall and about 180-some lbs, and she is NOT what I would call at all fat. In fact, I was surprised to hear about her "weight problem", because she always struck me as no more than "average" size for her height in her EGL and Utena outfits; not super-skinny, but not "overweight". She would look just fine in a bikini, IMO.

avskull
02-12-2005, 02:29 AM
But actually, I do have a friend who is 6' tall and about 180-some lbs, and she is NOT what I would call at all fat. In fact, I was surprised to hear about her "weight problem", because she always struck me as no more than "average" size for her height in her EGL and Utena outfits; not super-skinny, but not "overweight". She would look just fine in a bikini, IMO.

The BMI Calculator said that she's normal, or on the low end of overweight.

Sometimes in the media I see picture of undernourished celebrities. Itís too bad that youngsters are bombarded with these images.

Miyu
02-12-2005, 02:39 AM
Ah, Miyu, you will have to excuse me; it is not actually you who is "drawing my ire" so to speak, but a previous poster (the one who made the "400lb Nadia" comment.) I am still annoyed at his attitude, and I think it colored the tone of my post more than I intended; my apologies.

But actually, I do have a friend who is 6' tall and about 180-some lbs, and she is NOT what I would call at all fat. In fact, I was surprised to hear about her "weight problem", because she always struck me as no more than "average" size for her height in her EGL and Utena outfits; not super-skinny, but not "overweight". She would look just fine in a bikini, IMO.

oh ok! it's all good. ;) *thumbs up*

180 sounds perfectly healthy for someone who is 6'0".

MissSCeleste
02-12-2005, 05:57 AM
the way that an individual looks in a particular costume inherently MUST matter.

This is true... I already did post something about this and did not sugar coat it in a way that said you can be 200 pounds and wear a bikini and be fine... but as I said before the weight is NOT the factor that matters...which your post sort of implies that it DOES. Alot. At any weight you must be artistic and smart about how you do your costume so it flatters your body.

You've complained about redundant post but you basically stated everything I already did, but in a flat abrassive way that has probably damaged the egos of some young impressionable minds on here who read your seemingly intelligent realistic post (because it is well written) and begin pondering if they were a "circle jerker" even though they may have originally honestly been complimenting there friends costumes because they love that costume, or that person in that costume. Then they will prob. follow by thinking about your "look in the mirror, if your not pleased with it" bit and begin to over scrutinize there body. Everyone... even the most beautiful people are self concious about there body. Why encourage people to scrutunize there bodys so closely when the focus should be on the costume and the flattery of the costume?

Something about your post has irked me. You don't like other people being "venemous" towards you in response because your just "stating your opinion" and yet you choose to see only the posts that you feel are putting "blinders" on people who in your eyes do not fit into societys majority standard, because in YOUR deluded world its not good for all those "deluded" people who are not like the stars on tv to think there beautiful people when there not.

Exactly what is wrong with a person wishing for, or having ideals towards a cosplaying utopian society? Could this "terrible self delusion" possibly make people happier with themselves, more self confident, and more loving and accepting towards other people that are different then themselves?

Is there a possiblity the reason in society we only currently accept girls who are constantly being checked into clinics as our super models.. Is that our centuries "beautiful people" are a sign that people can be easily mislead and minipulated into altering themselves in every way humanly possible so that fashion designers can CASH IN big time?

Think about it. A couple of centuries ago the weight that is now considered overweight was considered the body of a goddess. Not a rock idol. Not a super model. A GODDESS. Back then people were more concered with eating and surviving, then fashion, so it was considered glamarous to have enough food to have a full vuluptious figuire. Masterful artists rendered these "beautiful women" who were prob. a healthy 180-200 pounds. Nowadays food is not so much a luxery as something everyone has the ability to get. Even our poor have a bit to eat. Oh well. Food is no longer an empowerment but money and material things.

Naturally overtime fashion designers and costumes got smart. People who were very thin with good bone structure were cheap to design for... the less material they used the cheaper to make, and the easier to sell at twice, thrice maybe even 5 times the price. ... and easy to angle for pictures. Other people saw them in magazines and decided that since thats who fashioin designers were always picking as there models that that body type must be what men see as attractive or even other women... and then they impressed that on there childrens childrens children and a new sociatial puppeterring was created... and you are part of it if you believe that you must conform to society in order to be accepted... not everyone does.... Your post only encourages people to give in and blend in.

If you already understand how difficult it is to live in an ideal utopian society why not do your best to help other artists understand the trap they are caught in so that perhaps one day they can move there childrens children in a more positive direction? I believe it's because your comforable where society is right now, becase currently you fit in with them. My dream is to help crush the real "blinders" that are out there and allow people to realize they have been fooled since birth into thinking "only this image is acceptable as beautiful".

The journey of a 1,000 miles begins with a single step. I hope to take that step holding a lantern and offereing a hand to all of those afraid to walk on the darkened path untread by our past generations because of there fears of that which they have not been comfortable with since birth. It's what being an artist is all about after all. I'm sure there are many others ready to carry there lanterns as well, and your post is not giving much "reality" to anything. It's simply YOUR reality as YOU see it, and it's snuffing out other peoples lights. There hopes to be beautiful too. Just because alot of people agree with you doesn't mean you are being realistic. People can be alot like sheep. You have to work really hard to see past it all and be a real artist.

True beauty has everything to do with what you personally believe you are and how you express it in a confident artistic way that the world can appreciate, and not anything to do with what the public thinks as a majority vote for body image...

we can go on and on about how "cosplay is supposed to be fun! screw what everyone else thinks!", but is that the reality? ask yourself... is it?

Yes... Yes that IS the reality of it.. It's short for Costume Play... is it not?

Play.. as in.. for fun? As in dress up? As in raid moms closet and lipstick drawer and have fun, and dress up like.. cartoon characters for crying out loud? Cosplay is like what Cartoons are to Fine Art. It is the fun side of the fashion world. It is all about fun! fun fun fun! Not about what other people think about you. So what if these people are being redundent? They are being loving, and caring, sensitive, and understanding... and exactly what is your problem with that? For every 5 compliments a person gets they might get one a-hole with somethng negative to say and you think these people are deluding whoever started this post by encouraging them to have a good time anyway? The only true reality is this. No matter what weight you are... You can be drop dead gorgeous even by societys current standards and some guys gonna take one look at you and go...

"Eww. Her nose is so long" or "OMG. What is with her feet? Gross."

You know what I'm saying? There will always be jerks... and there will always be beautiful people with good hearts... Why satifsy the ego of the jerks rather then the beautiful people with the good hearts? I hope you understand where I am coming from saying all this, and understand that it is not meant to be venemous towards you, or lecturing, but really my true concerns.

Scrapped Neko
02-12-2005, 03:26 PM
Cosplay is obviously about appearances. It's basically modeling a look. Cosplayers strut around showing off their clothes, and the body that's modeling the clothes is in the spotlight by default. That doesn't mean that someone has to be a vision of beauty in order to cosplay. All it means is that since cosplay is based on aesthetics, that's what people take note of.

Underweight cosplayers get comments as well. Technically I'm not underweight, but my BMI is about two points away from being underweight. I tend to cosplay as characters that are more curvaceous, such as Tiara from Shamanic Princess, even though my body type doesn't match up.
I never really thought my weight was an issue until recently. A few days ago I posted some pictures of my in-progress Eileen Galvin cosplay in my deviantart gallery. Someone left a comment telling me that I was too skinny to be Eileen. The person didn't mean it in a nasty way, but it really caught me off guard. To me their critique was a tad on the anal side. The only character I've cosplayed as who's body type truly matches my own is Ran Kotobuki from Gals!, and she's like thirteen years old...haha, that's kinda sad actually.

Anyway, the question that I'm trying to pose is this: Is one expected to gain/lose weight on a whim in order to perfectly match an image? Am I to gain weight and a curvaceous figure so I can make a good Eileen, and then get back down to being stick thin so I can accurately portray Ran? That's not very realistic. I think that question falls in with the "total and utter accuracy" thing that people seem to demand, even when it's not possible.

MissSCeleste
02-12-2005, 04:58 PM
I agree with you Neko. I know that appearance comes in by default, but really, we've all seen make over shows, you can make pretty much anyone look good if you've got an artistic eye and a good sense of fashion, and to me THAT's what strutting around in cosplay is about. Presenting yourself in another image so you as an individual can express yourself creativly. If everyone would keep in mind cosplay is the fun side of fashion.. and do your best to doll yourself up... to make YOU feel good about YOU, everyone would be having alot more fun with it. It's a fun way to see another side of yourself.. another character... another part of your personality that is lying dormant because of the sociatal chains that normally tie us down. It really has nothing to do with being accepted by elitists, of any nature.

Miyu
02-13-2005, 12:04 AM
we can agree to disagree, miss s. celeste.

i have formed the opinion that i've expressed from 9 years of cosplaying and my own personal observations of the psychological traits and the perpetually reoccurring behavioral habits of a great majority of cosplayers that i have seen come and go throughout this time. your outlook is certainly encouraging and optimistic; however unfortunately i must regrettably disagree with it and dismiss most of it as wishful thinking... which is not to say that i disagree with everything you have stated. just a good majority of it.

in my humble opinion, it boils down to this:

if you dislike a specific physical aspect (or several physical aspects) of yourself, work hard to change that feature into a trait that you are satisfied with. if someone is unhappy or uncomfortable with their weight - they should do everything that they can to make a positive change so as to ultimately and ideally be content with that particular flaw that they are seeing. i am aware that this is easier said than done, but it is absolutely possible to accomplish with enough drive and vigor.

the root of the issue is that a person's underlying insecurities with their exterior will usually eventually surface when they participate in a hobby such as cosplay; a hobby that puts a good deal of emphasis on the participant's aesthetics. the only way to defeat these insecurities is to confront them head-on and change them for the better, which is an extremely intimate and personal transformation that, in the end, can only truly be understood by the human being making that journey.

Bobbi
02-13-2005, 01:11 AM
I agree a lot with the points that Miyu stated.

Too many people have this mentality that they can just go out wearing anything regardless of body-type and be well recieved. It's just not the case at all. Most things can be modified to work on larger bodies, even some pretty skimpy costumes, and they can look great too. However, it takes an awful lot of planning and thought to be able to pull it off well. Even then, you still will not be widely recieved and "worshipped" by everyone for your cosplaying abilities. You can be a very experienced seamstress, and make gorgeous costumes that look wonderful on your figure. Even so, there's still people out there both online and in real life who will make comments about your weight. In that case, if you are really honestly worried about that, do something to change it... but keep a sense of perspective in mind. Are you willing to change it just so people in the convention/cosplay circuit will like you more? Or are you doing it to be healthier and happier as a person?

You don't need to change at all if you honestly feel that it's not worth your efforts. There's and endless list of characters out there that one can cosplay and do very well regardless of your size. Some people are happy with themselves as far as that goes. Granted, being truly happy with oneself is a rare thing. But I've come across people who are fairly happy with their appearance. Infact, I would be happy just loosing about 30 lbs and staying there. I don't mind being plus-sized at all. A size 12 or 14 would make me happy, as that's what I wore before I seriously started putting on a lot of weight after high school.

Dark Nova Seiya
02-13-2005, 01:34 AM
OK that just makes me really mad, people who do that need a slapin two. I feel that people of all weight sizes colors what ever should be allowed to cosplay, its not right if your singled out over weight, at least they have the will to go out and have fun, and personally 190 is nothing im 5 4 and im 290 i often get picked at and i do try to loose weight but im built how im built and im not about to let some stinking foo tell me i cant go to a con!!!! or go have fun over that. Its not right to me thats no diffrent than singling some one cause there white or red skinned to me its a form of racism and is no diffrent. I look very poorly on people who do that kinda thing...but thats just my opinion, you go have fun and hun you are not overweight...and im sorry you had to listen to people tell you that.

Kokuu
02-13-2005, 03:22 AM
I agree with Bobbi- your attitude is everything! Clinically, I am overweight (If I went by the BMI calculator Iíd be obese, but Iím pretty muscular). I acknowledge that fact, but overall I am quite happy with who I am and how I look. Sure, Iíd love to be a dress size or two smaller, but even being plus-sized, overall I like the way I look. And Iíve managed to pull off some pretty skimpy costumes, including Gunner Yuna. I donít think I look grotesque- heck, I got a TON of complements wearing it.

if you dislike a specific physical aspect (or several physical aspects) of yourself, work hard to change that feature into a trait that you are satisfied with. if someone is unhappy or uncomfortable with their weight - they should do everything that they can to make a positive change so as to ultimately and ideally be content with that particular flaw that they are seeing. i am aware that this is easier said than done, but it is absolutely possible to accomplish with enough drive and vigor.

True, if you donít like something about yourself, you should work to change it. However, you also need to have a realistic image in mind. For example, thereís no way on this earth that I could ever be a size 6. It wouldnít matter if I exercised a lot, dieted, got my stomach stapled- whatever- it would be physically impossible, unless they started removing muscle tissue and bones from my bodyÖ But would I really want to go through all that, just to be a size six? This is a bit extreme of an example, but you get my point. However, a more realistic goal for would be to go from a size 16 to maybe a 12-14. That could be do-able, (though when I lost a lot of weight last summer and was in tip-top shape (I ran 2 miles/day) I could barely fit my legs into my sisterís size 12 jeans, because they were too muscular. Sadly I gained it all back and a little more. Stupid college dorm food and classes that take away any time to exercise.)

What I think is more important then changing your body, is to change your body image. You need to learn to look in the mirror, and love yourself and your body. You make do with what you have, and make the best of it. I know I could never wear a bikini or anything like that, but frankly Iím fine with that. Maybe Iím just really narcissistic or on crack or something, but when I look at myself in the mirror most mornings, I think I look pretty good. And frankly, thatís what matters.

If you donít love your body, you have a much bigger problem then being overweight/underweight/whaterver IMO.

wulfmune
02-13-2005, 06:55 AM
Too many people have this mentality that they can just go out wearing anything regardless of body-type and be well recieved.

actually i think this is the opposite. i believe most people are afraid of how people will see their bodies regardless of what their body types are. most people i know are dissatified with their bodies in some way.

i'm sure we've all seen costumes that we thought the person could have chosen something more flattering to wear, be it the fitting, color, texture, quality of a costume ect and criticized them whether it be out loud or in the back of our head. but when i think about, just because i don't have enough self confidence to wear certain things without worrying about people judging me, i can't judge people who can just wear what they want and have fun. i don't believe these people are just "clueless" or "naive" about how they look or people see them. i think they spent a long time becoimng comfortable with themselves. (this does not pertain to indecency of course)

rpd_girl
02-13-2005, 10:28 PM
if I have learned anything from being at cons.... it's WHO CARES! Everyone is there for a great time, and it's so cool to see all types of people there having fun and showing off for the same reason.

Big, small, purple, yellow or green (left over mardi gra on the brain)... doesn't matter what ya look like... have fun!

Majin Buu
02-14-2005, 03:24 AM
I could care less about one's weight. For some characters, having a larger waistline would work to one's advantage. I'm certain that everyone (or most) agrees that weight does NOT matter. Have fun, I say!!!! :skidude2:

Pikacello
02-14-2005, 04:52 AM
MissSCeleste, I really love your post. I feel like it might be hard to achieve such a goal in this country. But when we look worldly, it's completely different. Thin is not pretty in many countries. Rather, what we would consider "weird" is normal, stretching holes in the ears and lengthening the neck, binding the feet. It's important to think about this when defining "beautiful" or "accepted" or "satisfied" because we sure as hell aren't the only people living in this world. Although it's easy to begin to think so. I'm guilty of it way too often.

Miyu, I really dig your points on self-exploration. I think that is most important in cosplay, rather than how you look in other people's eyes.

My two cents: Cosplay is fun, all in all, but it is should not define our ideas of beauty. We're too diverse a world for that, and I hope that we keep finding new ways to express beauty.

Tsumanne
02-16-2005, 10:40 AM
All that matters is if your having fun. Simple awnser na?

Useless Trivial Facts: There is a tribe in Africa that messures a man's success on how large his wife is.

SharinganTanaka
02-16-2005, 12:38 PM
You shouldn't care about what others think, only about what you think, and even then take what you think of yourself with a grain of salt because people tent to be too critical on themselves.

I, for example, am 170 cm and weight 70 kg (sorry, we Dutch work with the mathemetical system), yet I still wished my hips were smaller and my stomach flatter. But that wont stop me from dragging my ass into a con-costume and have fun... the thing that does stop me is that there are rarely con's here in Holland and going to america cost too much with the plane ticket and a place to stay and such. :sulk:

If you can go: THEN GO! Don't let looks stop you from having fun.

Kawaii Bishoujo
02-16-2005, 04:23 PM
dont listen to what your friends tell you =)

LOTUSNEKO
02-16-2005, 08:19 PM
With friends like those, who needs enemies? I think you are beautiful. I recently saw a photo of a large girl in a Kikyo 'miko' (shrine maiden priestess) outfit and she looked amazing. What costume/character did you have in mind?

I think if your costume is tasteful and attractive you should go, hold your head up, and show that cosplay is not just for skinny girls. I am sure some guy cosplayers who are overweight may feel a bit self-conscious too, but the pressure on women is more intense, ne? Who says slim girls have a monopoly on cosplay or anything else, for that matter?

I am also plus-size, btw.

LOTUSNEKO
02-16-2005, 08:56 PM
Hmm, here is a little change from topic. This thread has been about how some are ostensibly 'offended' by seeing overweight cosplayers who somehow burst the bubble of illusion that all their favorite characters will be prancing about at the con.

Well, why not be 'offended' by women wearing hardly anything? Or, what if the cosplayer is African-American? You wouldn't DARE say anything about someone's race, so why should weight even be an issue? God made us in all sizes, shapes, and colors. The women in anime are mostly ungodly unrealistic porportions anyway. Their breasts defy gravity and are sometimes shaped like balloons, as in Ai Yori Aioshi.

Bobbi
02-16-2005, 09:30 PM
actually i think this is the opposite. i believe most people are afraid of how people will see their bodies regardless of what their body types are. most people i know are dissatified with their bodies in some way.

Nah you were taking what I said out of context. ;) I was responding to Miyu's post about what people are saying in this thread. "Wear whatever you want, cosplay is FUN!!!!!!" I see most of those replies coming from girls who aren't nearly as overweight as others who are having these issues. It's great that they want to help, and be supportive, but they may not know that they're giving out the wrong idea.

Most cosplayers who are overweight do take their size into consideration, and choose costumes accordingly. Some have it set in their minds that they can only wear big robes, which isn't true at all. (That's one point I've been trying to convey for awhile) A few rare ones think "Well, I can wear whatever I want! This character's bootie hangs out and so can mine!" Even though that may not look very flattering on the person, a few rare plus-sized women have this mentality. Not that there's anything morally or criminally wrong with it, what works for the goose doesn't always work for the gander, if you know what I mean. *Shrugs* You can't win em all though. Cest la vie. ;)

So sometimes you have to come into a good middle ground between revealing and covered-up in order for some costumes to look good on a bigger figure. A lengthened hemline or two can work wonders. =)

Tia
02-16-2005, 10:07 PM
Well, there aren't that many cosplayers who are very overweight. I wonder why. *thinks back to some recent posts* It's difficult to generalize about this, especially since anybody who's a little bit overweight automatically thinks anything looks bad on them. It's very easy to start criticizing yourself. I think people do typically lean towards not wanting to expose anything at all. I think that's wrong.

People, especially women, shouldn't feel shame for their bodies. It's like we're damned no matter what we look like. If we're thin and what society deems sexy, there is the blame of lust on us, like we're looking for it all the time and promiscuous. And if you don't have a perfect body, people use the wall of disgust. Either way, it's shame.

It's all about power. Don't let people have power over you. The minute you start believing the image people cast on you is when you lose yourself. I just felt I had to say something about the shame, because it stuck out at me in Bobbi's post. I've been many different sizes, and people will look for anything to try to have power over you. Not just weight. For me, people use the weight because it is the first thing you see. People make stupid snap judgments a lot of the time.

It's not like it's just men who do this to women, either. My mother is especially good at this. I won't ever be able to forget some of the things she has said to me. Like the way I stick out like a sore thumb. Thanks, mom.

I really just don't understand why people put each other in such places of shame. Your body is a gift. You should embrace its beauty in whatever form it takes. Just have the good judgment to know what is beautiful for you and what isn't.

I've been put in the position of a victim a lot in my life, sometimes beyond my control and sometimes it was my own fault. I only hope that others can learn from the mistakes I make so they don't have to suffer. It's very rare that people see me genuinely pissed off. Victimizing somebody innocent is right up there. I think I've been pissed off that bad maybe three times in my entire life. This is a serious thing. Nobody should make someone else feel shame for anything about themselves. It's not right.

I'm sorry this post turned out so long. You don't have to read it all if you don't want to.

Scrapped Neko
02-16-2005, 10:58 PM
Wow, Tia, I just wanted to tell you how eloquent your post is. I agree with everything you just wrote, especially the part about power. It's so true.
People will use any reason to flex what little power they have. They'll zero in on anything that can be remotely labeled as a flaw (even if it's really not a flaw at all).

The cliche solution to that sort of power struggle would be something along the lines of regaining the power by ignoring those who try and bring you down. Unfortunately that's one of those happy little adages that rarely translates to reality. Whenever someone puts me down I try hard to let it go, but the truth is that it still hurts. I really admire people who are able to remain strong even when other people are jerks.

Umm, yeah. I forgot where I was going with this so I'll just stop now... =P

purplevix
02-16-2005, 11:13 PM
Well said, Tia

It seems to me that people with this bias against overweight cosplayers seem to think that the person in the costume doesn't know they're the size they are. Odds are, they know better than anyone. People are aware of what they do or don't want to show, including those that just wear whatever.

Besides, if someone is so impressionable that a person in a costume "ruins their image of the character" then they may as well not go to cons or look at cosplay because a bad costume can have the same result, and we don't want that now do we?

Christine

Bobbi
02-16-2005, 11:17 PM
.
It's all about power. Don't let people have power over you. The minute you start believing the image people cast on you is when you lose yourself. I just felt I had to say something about the shame, because it stuck out at me in Bobbi's post. I've been many different sizes, and people will look for anything to try to have power over you. Not just weight. For me, people use the weight because it is the first thing you see. People make stupid snap judgments a lot of the time.


Exactly! When it comes down to it, it really is all about power. Nowadays, with women's rights and feminisim a-blazing, women can no longer be controlled by jobs, voting or whatever. So, in order to remain in control society puts women into the little box of "size 6". Now, I'm not a feminist by any means, don't get me wrong. I'm for equality of both sexes. It's just a serious problem in the western culture.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/body_positive/24534.html

This is a very intersting article written by a Moroccan woman who's a professor who grew up in a strict Muslim society. Upon coming to the US and going shopping for clothes at a department store, she discovered some very interesting things about the western culture and how they control women. Granted, it does have a feminist slant to it. I definately recommend reading this.

At any rate, we are sopposed to be a free country, equal opportunies for all... yet, we're really not. In order to change that, you have to start by changing the opinions of people around you.

Tia
02-16-2005, 11:23 PM
The best thing to do is forget about it and go do something that makes you feel good. Hmmm... makes you wonder how I got so many hobbies... But you can go too far in that direction, too. There was a time (not that long ago) when school was my entire life. For a few years, really. I'm a workaholic by nature, though. So maybe just taking some time to relax. Do something you've been meaning to do for a while.

I'm lucky because I have somebody to watch out for me when I get really depressed, but I haven't had a serious relapse since high school. I was diagnosed as clinically depressed. I've had some trouble spots in the past year and a half, but somebody always catches me. He doesn't let me run away from myself, either. I suppose I should've known I'd love somebody as stubborn as myself. *is really damn stubborn*

I've never been strong enough to let it go. My mind starts playing tricks on me. Once you start to doubt yourself, it's all downhill from there. I have to go, though. I'm getting too emotional again. One of my worst faults. Like a lot of people, I'm my own worst enemy.

Miyabi-
02-17-2005, 06:42 PM
Sorry if this post has nothing to do with the topic on hand but here I go:
You know, it's sad how people are ostracized for something so meaningless as what their weight is....
The media really doesn't help in this either. A magazine that's on newsstands right now has an entire article dedicated to stars who are under 100 pounds and the sad thing is that not once does this article mention how dangerously unhealthy that is. (and yes, most of these celebs are grossly underweight....I mean, come on...5'8 and being 98 pounds?!) And before you all start protesting this yes I *do* realize that there are people out there that are genetically predisposed to be that tiny. (A friend of my Mom's daughter for example.)
It scares me to death that this kind of image is being pounded into young women's heads.... I recently went jeans shopping and in the juniors section I saw a pair of pants that I swear to god wouldn't fit my 8 year old cousin. The idea that those pants were made for someone 13 years old and up made me sick. (and yes, I checked the tag to see if someone put kids jeans there by mistake..they weren't.) So I've boycotted the LEI company from my wardrobe for unrealistic expectations on today's youth. *wink*


I've seen some absolutely gorgeous cosplayers who could be deemed "overweight" and I applaud them wholeheartedly for taking a stand and not only taking cosplay up a notch but helping to change what I personally think is a really wrong way of looking at the entire hobby of cosplay. Cosplay shouldn't be a popularity contest...it should be something that is a testimony to your abilities as a costumer and yes, that means making an outfit work for YOU and YOUR body type.

SakkaRosette
02-17-2005, 06:45 PM
Yeah, like....I've never complimented anyone on their weight....but I *have* complimented plenty of people on their costumes. If you can make the costume work for you, then I'm having trouble seeing where weight enters into it at all....

EdwardElricLvr
02-17-2005, 10:18 PM
I have been mentioning to a few of my friends that cosplay and go to cons that I plan on going to one in the near future and all of them have told me I shouldnt go until I get skinny (xD Im 5'4" and weigh 190 pounds) I was wondering if this is true?
The last thing I want to do is show up and be yelled at for being large I have enough self esteem issues as it is
any feed back would be helpful
i say go ahead and do it i weigh the same as you and i plan on doing it anyways never feel bad about the way you look there a plenty of overweight cosplayers out there and they look fantastic in their costumes you shouldn't have to be skinny to enjoy cosplaying so don't listen to what people say do what you want to do don't let something like weight hold you back from that it's not how small or big or tall or short the person is it's what the costume looks like and how well you can pull off the character ^.^

OniShaku
02-17-2005, 10:36 PM
Ive seen some pretty amazing costumes pulled off by "overweight" people. One of the best Buu costumes I've ever seen could have only been pulled off by the man in it, who was...large...but damn did he work that costume! ;) There is a pic floating around on my friends site, Acenguys.com, check it out!!

Tia
02-18-2005, 12:38 AM
Chibi-Forte is right, that's a disease, too. Anorexia/Bullimia/Bullimirexia (sp?) are all based on the same self-esteem problem as obesity. Many people I know who have one eating disorder have either had different eating disorders in the past or even more than one at a time. Personally, I had trouble with anorexia first. I was constantly dieting on-and-off from since I can remember until a couple of years ago when I just got fed up with it. It stopped working for me. I would make myself stick to 1250 calories per day, regardless of my weight. It was pretty easy to do, it's just that it has really good effects the first week or two and then you don't get anything. It's like banging your head up against a wall repeatedly.

And to people viewing the thread that might think 190 lbs on a medium to tall girl is really overweight, it isn't. I was that weight once, and I was a comfortable 13/14. I was seriously buff then, though. But my frame is also larger and I have always been pretty muscular. So for someone like that, weight automatically becomes an issue because just to be healthy you are borderline overweight by BMI.

Personally, I used to go by those charts they show you at the doctor's office. For a good part of my life I was in the high end of healthy, because I constantly exercised. I think how much you eat matters a whole lot less than how you excercise. I used to put in like four hours a day doing tennis. You can push it too far and become obsessive with excercise (which happened to me) though, and that isn't healthy either. Also, I ate healthy even though I always ate a lot. The exercise can balance things out, if you use it right.

The most ironic thing is the difference if you compare the number of insults I've gotten (which is one) to the number of times people have complimented or hit on me in costume. I don't think you often see people in vinyl miniskirts in wal mart, though. 0.o;

Medic
02-18-2005, 01:09 AM
Sorry I just read a little on this topic so if it been said be for I am sorry, Hell no you donít need to be skinny to go to con or cosplay. Really I donít know why anyone would want to tell something like that but it not true at all. I will for one would like to be one to welcome you to your new lifestyle and hope your con experience will be an enjoyable one as I sure it will be.

Kokuu
02-18-2005, 01:17 AM
I was constantly dieting on-and-off from since I can remember until a couple of years ago when I just got fed up with it. It stopped working for me. I would make myself stick to 1250 calories per day, regardless of my weight. It was pretty easy to do, it's just that it has really good effects the first week or two and then you don't get anything. It's like banging your head up against a wall repeatedly.

I've come to believe it's not how much you eat, it's WHAT you eat. I've tried dieting so many times, but I'm horrible at sticking with it. Last summer I tried calorie counting, and eating only 1500 calories/day. That was so difficult, since you have to analyize how much you're eating and figure out the calories in things. It made it very difficult to eat out, since most resturants don't post how many calories are in their dishes. That only lasted for about three weeks, and I didn't even lose anything.

I've given up on dieting, but since I've moved out of the dorms (which caused me to put on 25 lbs!) and I've been cooking, I've noticed that I've lost some weight without really even trying. I eat primarily fresh foods that are high in protein, and I hardly ever eat sweets, since I find that they really make me sick now.

And to people viewing the thread that might think 190 lbs on a medium to tall girl is really overweight, it isn't. I was that weight once, and I was a comfortable 13/14. I was seriously buff then, though. But my frame is also larger and I have always been pretty muscular. So for someone like that, weight automatically becomes an issue because just to be healthy you are borderline overweight by BMI.

I really think they need to get rid of the BMI charts, since itís such a horrible way to measure weight. According to BMI charts, someone who is 5í8Ē and 165 lbs is considered overweight! It doesnít take frame structure, muscle mass, or even sex into account. It says Iím extremely obese, but my doctor says I just need to lose maybe 30 lbs or so, and Iíd be in a good weight range for my height and frame, since growing up I was always in the upper percentiles for height and weight.

And it doesnít help that we see these stick celebrities everywhere. To quote Sir Mix-A-Lot: ďWell Cosmo says your fat/Well, I ainít down with that.Ē XD

Tia
02-18-2005, 01:25 AM
Yes, college is really bad for gaining weight. I think it's partially what you eat and partially how much. Admittedly, I knew that it wasn't sane for a person like me to diet that way; a personal trainer even told me that. I was trying to explain in detail so people wouldn't call me crazy for saying I'd had problems with anorexia. My mother says that a lot to me, and did at the time. When I was thinner and dieted I did 850 calories a day, but I got convinced by somebody that you aren't allowed to eat less than 1,000 for serious reasons so I switched to that. We can all get very.. obsessed in the dieting mentality. At least in my case. I even tried to hide it from my friends by not doing that one day out of the week. I think they suspected it, though.

I think the most absurd thing was when I was told in eighth grade by my drama teacher that I needed to lose weight, being 150 pounds. That was one of the lowest weights I ever was, too. Wanted to slap her in the face for that remark.

The thing about college is that it's really hard to keep up a good exercise schedule. With all the work, I'm lucky if I get sleep every night. I need to make more time for exercise.

AyameChan
02-18-2005, 01:32 AM
I would like to lose some weight myself for health reasons over looks. I'm 5'4" and about 200 lbs... But I'm not letting my size get me down. I'm gonna go, and do my best on the costumes, and then work on losing weight overtime so I can do other costumes that wouldn't be proper otherwise for me to wear *has moral issues of skin showing on herself ><* Anyway, good luck!!!

ChibiToon
02-18-2005, 02:10 AM
Yes, college is really bad for gaining weight. I think it's partially what you eat and partially how much.

The thing about college is that it's really hard to keep up a good exercise schedule. With all the work, I'm lucky if I get sleep every night. I need to make more time for exercise.

Yes! Yes, yes, yes! I agree to that completely! Ever since I started college I gained just about 20 pounds. I think my problem, though, is not only the lack of nutritious foods, but also stress. I hate college life... HATE IT SO MUCH!

I think the most absurd thing was when I was told in eighth grade by my drama teacher that I needed to lose weight, being 150 pounds. That was one of the lowest weights I ever was, too. Wanted to slap her in the face for that remark.


That was really rude. Teachers like that make me so mad. When my mom was a kid, her one teacher made her stand in front of her class while the teacher outright told her that her clothes were ugly. (She was wearing a shirt my grandmother made for her.)


Sorry for getting off-topic... :thumbsup: I just had to rant for a second.



CT

Kokuu
02-18-2005, 02:22 AM
Yes! Yes, yes, yes! I agree to that completely! Ever since I started college I gained just about 20 pounds. I think my problem, though, is not only the lack of nutritious foods, but also stress. I hate college life... HATE IT SO MUCH!

What did me in was the lack of ANY nutritious foods in the dorms. The only thing semi-healthy was the salad bar they had (which tasted pretty gross) and I'm sure not going to eat salad every day. So I pretty much ate burgers, fries, and tacos. I started freaking out when I looked at the scale, saw I gained back the 15 lbs I lost the previous summer, and another 10-15 lbs. That was part of the reason why I moved out of the dorms at the semester. I think I'm back to my "normal" weight- or at least what I seem to average out, but it's gonna take a lot work to get back to where I was 6 months ago.

Miyu
02-18-2005, 05:23 AM
if you guys think that the pressure that the media places on women to be thin is bad HERE... then i suggest you never go to japan. :/ i picked up some "gal" magazines when i was there. you see ads in the back for "diet shakes" that are basically laxatives. someone like myself (33 in bust, 21 in waist, 32 in hips & 102 lbs) is considered ideal for most girls.. but the big pop stars like ayumi hamasaki and namie amuro are 85 - 86 lbs. last i checked, britney spears and beyonce knowles have never gone below 130-ish.

so seriously, stop singling-out american popculture and media. we definitely don't have the worst of it here. in 3rd-world countries it's cool to be big, as it's a symbol of wealth because it shows that you're well-fed... but in europe, japan, china, korea, south america (BIG-TIME there.. brazil in particular seems to be a breeding ground for beautiful people and supermodels), etc, it's looked down upon to be fat just as much.. if not MORE than it is in america because being overweight is less common in some of those places than it is in our country.

i digress.

i've got absolutely no problem telling overweight people too get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable with how their body looks. i say this because during a short period of time in my life i got chubby from being too lazy, and i managed to lose is all almost as soon as i gained it. i just fixed my eating habits, quit smoking, and excersized regularly... and it went completely away within 3 months or so. i don't think there is ANY excuse for overweight or underweight people to feel unhappy with themselves when they can easily take the initiative to do something to change that. i don't like hearing people whine. at all. :)

Igniz
02-18-2005, 06:11 AM
if you guys think that the pressure that the media places on women to be thin is bad HERE... then i suggest you never go to japan. :/ i picked up some "gal" magazines when i was there. you see ads in the back for "diet shakes" that are basically laxatives. someone like myself (33 in bust, 21 in waist, 32 in hips & 102 lbs) is considered ideal for most girls.. but the big pop stars like ayumi hamasaki and namie amuro are 85 - 86 lbs. last i checked, britney spears and beyonce knowles have never gone below 130-ish.

so seriously, stop singling-out american popculture and media. we definitely don't have the worst of it here. in 3rd-world countries it's cool to be big, as it's a symbol of wealth because it shows that you're well-fed... but in europe, japan, china, korea, south america (BIG-TIME there.. brazil in particular seems to be a breeding ground for beautiful people and supermodels), etc, it's looked down upon to be fat just as much.. if not MORE than it is in america because being overweight is less common in some of those places than it is in our country.

i digress.

i've got absolutely no problem telling overweight people too get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable with how their body looks. i say this because during a short period of time in my life i got chubby from being too lazy, and i managed to lose is all almost as soon as i gained it. i just fixed my eating habits, quit smoking, and excersized regularly... and it went completely away within 3 months or so. i don't think there is ANY excuse for overweight or underweight people to feel unhappy with themselves when they can easily take the initiative to do something to change that. i don't like hearing people whine. at all. :)

I agree with you , the japanese pop songtress is not the good example but they are short too : they like 154 to 160 cm heigh approx (Sorry I didn't know how it's in feet /foot and inches) and some there are young.

Using laxatives for dieting is the good way to damage you stomach and all you gigestive system. And you principaly lose water not fat: you dehydrate you body and it's very bad for you health.

The same with the male singer : the visual rock mainly , example Mana is 1m74 and weight 47 kg or something like that . He's very skinny , bony and don't want to see him wearing a swimming suit *shocked*

avskull
02-18-2005, 06:35 AM
The idea of ďsuperstarsĒ and ďmodelsĒ influencing people to starve is disgusting. Sure you want to starve yourself good for you but your family members will just watch as you waste away. There nothing cute or super about killing yourself. There are America models and celebrities who show off their rib cages. Just because it worst in other countries doesnít mean its good here.

Each persons metabolism is different that why some people will never thin out.

Kokuu
02-18-2005, 10:01 AM
i've got absolutely no problem telling overweight people too get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable with how their body looks. i say this because during a short period of time in my life i got chubby from being too lazy, and i managed to lose is all almost as soon as i gained it. i just fixed my eating habits, quit smoking, and excersized regularly... and it went completely away within 3 months or so. i don't think there is ANY excuse for overweight or underweight people to feel unhappy with themselves when they can easily take the initiative to do something to change that. i don't like hearing people whine. at all. :)

Itís really not as easy as it sounds. For some people losing weight is very difficult. Some of us have been overweight for most of our lives, so we canít lose it ďjust like thatĒ. Last summer, I made it a priority to lose weight and get in shape. I ran two miles EVERY day, went to the gym to work out on the cross trainer and weight train every other day, and ate a pretty well-balanced diet (for a couple of weeks, I was even calorie counting!). All of this for about 3-4 months. I think I lost maybe 15 lbs and most of that went within the first month (though I was in really good shape). Itís like I have this boundary that I canít cross. Now, I wish I could exercise as much as I did, but I canít. Itís not because Iím lazy, itís because I donít have time. Iím in college taking 20 units. All of my free time is spent studying, practicing music, doing work for my sorority or sleeping.

so seriously, stop singling-out american popculture and media. we definitely don't have the worst of it here. in 3rd-world countries it's cool to be big, as it's a symbol of wealth because it shows that you're well-fed... but in europe, japan, china, korea, south america (BIG-TIME there.. brazil in particular seems to be a breeding ground for beautiful people and supermodels), etc, it's looked down upon to be fat just as much.. if not MORE than it is in america because being overweight is less common in some of those places than it is in our country.


Yes there are places that are worse then America, but it doesn't make it any more excusable. When we see stick models all over magazines that say: "Drop those pounds, "Lose weight" what kind of impression does that give? What about these pre-teen, young teenage girls who are reading these magazines- what are they going to think if they don't look like the models inside? When I was younger, I got really depressed for being fat, and not being skinny like the girls in magazines (and this was in magazines geared towards pre-teen girls too!). I'm really glad that depression didn't turn into an eating disorder. It doesn't give a realistic image of how people are.

You never see images of "real women" anywhere. Only young, attractive, skinny women. I'm really glad that some teen clothing catalogs are starting to put plus-sized models for their clothes. You CAN be beautiful without being a size 6.

Miyabi-
02-18-2005, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by Miyu
if you guys think that the pressure that the media places on women to be thin is bad HERE... then i suggest you never go to japan. :/ i picked up some "gal" magazines when i was there. you see ads in the back for "diet shakes" that are basically laxatives. someone like myself (33 in bust, 21 in waist, 32 in hips & 102 lbs) is considered ideal for most girls.. but the big pop stars like ayumi hamasaki and namie amuro are 85 - 86 lbs. last i checked, britney spears and beyonce knowles have never gone below 130-ish.

so seriously, stop singling-out american popculture and media. we definitely don't have the worst of it here. in 3rd-world countries it's cool to be big, as it's a symbol of wealth because it shows that you're well-fed... but in europe, japan, china, korea, south america (BIG-TIME there.. brazil in particular seems to be a breeding ground for beautiful people and supermodels), etc, it's looked down upon to be fat just as much.. if not MORE than it is in america because being overweight is less common in some of those places than it is in our country.

This is true but not many of us here are Japanese and/or live in Japan... and like Kokku said it doesn't make it excusable. Also don't forget that genetics-wise the Japanese in whole ARE smaller than Americans in height AND frame. I can't say the same is true for Europe and Brazil however. But the point that I was trying to make is that the importance of image is society driven.


i've got absolutely no problem telling overweight people too get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable with how their body looks. i say this because during a short period of time in my life i got chubby from being too lazy, and i managed to lose is all almost as soon as i gained it. i just fixed my eating habits, quit smoking, and excersized regularly... and it went completely away within 3 months or so. i don't think there is ANY excuse for overweight or underweight people to feel unhappy with themselves when they can easily take the initiative to do something to change that. i don't like hearing people whine. at all.


Now that's just rude. You act like these people want to be overweight or are just lazy! Maybe it's easy for you to drop pounds but for some people obesity is genetic and it's actually very hard if not impossible without medical help. Keep in mind that you don't just wake up one day and decide to lose 20 pounds. It's actually a lengthy process that involves going to a doctor or nutritionist to design the best weight loss and exercise plan for your body type and lifestyle, perhaps even going to a support group to keep your moral up etc.etc.
I don't mean to single you out ( I'd quote Celebrimbor's posts but I think he's given up posting in this thread) but as for you having "no problem telling overweight people to get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable" I sincerely hope you do it in a nicer and more supportive manner than you demonstrated in your post. That's what all of us were originally trying to do in this thread...give support.

SakkaRosette
02-18-2005, 11:05 AM
I think that for women (in particular) to feel like they have to be a certain weight - at all, in any country - is just buying into misogyny. Big corporations want you to do that. Hating yourself makes other people rich....markets can feed on that. Not to mention that it's male driven....I mean think about it....REALLY think about it....why do women beat themselves up sooooo much to look a certain way? Guys don't! It's patriarchal and misogynystic and all we're doing is objectifying ourselves and lessening our status by saying we're not good enough.

Bobbi
02-18-2005, 11:52 AM
Like I mentioned before, the whole weight thing is an issue of control. It's not just weight, but age is another HUGE thing. Women are basically expected to look like young and tiny teenagers. Women aren't expected to be intelligent, self-sufficent, be and be independant both in actions and thoughts. Granted, today it's more acceptable for a woman to be that way. Yet still, you don't see many women scientists, cosmologists (a branch of science dealing with the workings of the universe, not makeup and hair!), mathmaticians, and other such careers. Most women still believe (usually not at all consiously) that they need to abide by their man, bear and raise children. You see so many women with great intelligence settiling for a job as a secretary or a nurse.

Granted, if a woman choses to go forward and do incredible things, then there really isn't a whole lot that can stop her because of women's rights and other things like that. It's considered sexisim. Yet society still drills this into our heads from the time we are babies. Look at the toys girls are expected to play with. I remember having one of those toy kitchen thingies, baby dolls, even those shopping carts with all the toy food that went with it, Barbie dolls (wretched things!)... the list goes on and on. Though I played with my nephew's "boy toys" more, and I had more fun just playing outside by myself without toys... just using my imagination.

Today, I think it's a lot worse for little girls. Now we have the whole princess complex. Every little girl is trained that they must be the damsel in distress and wait for ther prince on the white horse to come, so they can get married and live happily ever after. Yes, this has been around as long as Disney, but it wasn't such a huge problem until recent years when Disney "brand named" it. *rolls eyes* They're going to grow up and have a harder time realizing that princes just don't ride in on white horses.. and that relationships are about compromise. There is never a happilly ever after in this life. There's always struggles, pain and challenges. Life only gets harder and more challenging after marriage. From what I've been told anyway. ^_^;

I'm not demeaning the institution of marriage and being a homemaker in any way. I would like to be married and maybe have kids someday, but I realize that this isn't my one and only purpose in life. I can do so much more. =)

If a child is going to be intelligent, you have to train them at a very early age. Granted, some of it is heredity, but a lot of it is learned. Teach a child to be independant, free-thinking, respectful, loving, and hard working in their early childhood, and they will carry that behaviour into adulthood. Likewise, take a little girl and teach them that they need to be concerned with fashion, appearance, cooking, cleaning, taking care of babies, then as they get older drill this into their head with the media (God only knows how important music, movies, and celebrities are as a teenager), they will end up either giving in or being beat down by it when they realize that they don't fit that image at all.

Men also have some very stupid expectations of them as well... such as being manly, liking sports, and they must be agressive. Any guy who isn't is gay... and well, being gay is this horrible terrible thing. *rolls eyes* So we have a lot of men who end up being abusive and uncaring when it comes to their girlfriends or wives. Women in return are trained to be loyal to their men, and have a hard time escaping from that abuse. I know that abuse is a horrible thing, and I'm not demeaning it at all. But abuse and the descision to stay in it is usually (not always, circumstances can be different) something trained from childhood.

To make matters worse, on Jerry Springer and various (annoying) talk and court shows, we have men with the whole "I'm the man" complex, and women with the "princess" complex as well. We also have children who watch these shows when their parents are vegging out on the couch, and they may not realize that this kind of behavior is not right.

Yes I admit, it is worse in Japan because in order to be honorable to your family, a woman is expected to fill the role of homemaker. But the issue of weight is different, they have a smaller frame than most westerners do. The average here is 5'4", 135-145 lbs, and a size 12. The average there is a heck of a lot smaller. But at least in the U.S. we don't have as many cultural stigmas keeping people from striving to be different. I believe with some work, these views can be changed. Just are people going to be willing to let that change come?

When people stand up and say "No, I don't want this anymore" the media and other industries will have no choice but to listen. Either that, or they will go into more extremes to drill this into our heads. *sigh* But at least you can keep your own self and family sane by realizing these things, and making changes in your own life.

Loose weight to be healthy, not to fit in with society's view of what you SHOULD look like. Encourage imagination and free thought in children, plus other good morals, and your children will grow up to be good people.

ChibiToon
02-18-2005, 11:58 AM
Media influences do not always have to be images either. Look at movies or TV shows. You never see one overweight person as the heroine who gets the guy at the end. They are either the sidekick, comedy relief, or one of the first to be killed (in a horror film). The "ugly girl turned beautiful" character is a joke, too. They are beautiful to begin with.... all they had to do was slap on some glasses and *poof* they're an "ugly girl".

What I'm getting at is, these types of films are pretty much screaming at their audiences the message of "you must be beautiful for all this stuff to happen to you."

**EDIT** *points to above post* Yeah, what she said, too.... :thumbsup:

CT

SakkaRosette
02-18-2005, 01:02 PM
Bobbi: Wow, you made my point better than I did! Yeah, everyone-refer to Bobbi's post - she took what I was trying to say and explained it better. :)

Chibi: Actually have you ever seen Shallow Hal? It's like the one movie where the overweight chick gets the hero. But yeah....there really aren't many more than that, are there?

Tia
02-18-2005, 02:34 PM
Just look up every movie Rikki Lake ever starred in.

EnterTheLeaf
02-18-2005, 09:07 PM
In all honesty...some people are just out to poke fun, or make some kind of irrational, ignorant remark to make release tension, or just to try and make themselves heard. Friends or not, or even if rules prohibit it, someone will always be there to put you down every step of the way, or turn you down. How you deal with it, is entirely up to you though.

OoTLink
02-18-2005, 09:44 PM
Hrmmm I think ETL got this one good - but I'll make a more blunt point:

There are a LOT of people in the US that just want to see other people miserable, hate themselves, or feel like crap.. or go into depression. Shoot, when was the last time you DIDN'T have a "bad neighbor" lol.

Actually, we're lucky on that one right now.. but still, sometimes there's people who are just bad.. and there are a lot of cosplayers with that mentality.. I mean not to be bold, but I've run into those kinds of people several times before since at least online, I like to ""get around", and they think that you should only be known if you're the world's greatest cosplayer.

So I've gotten a few threats before, some from people you might have met.. but that I won't dig into, point is there's some ****ed up people in this world.

The last thing you want to do with them is say "I can show them!" -- that's just falling for their trap I guess you can say, because trying to measure up against people like that is impossible, since you're playing their game by their rules and you'll always be wrong.

Another way to put that? If you're going to lose weight don't do it because you want to gain status in cosplay.. do it for your health if you NEED to. Everyone could use a little more exercise (ya know, stairs instead of elevator, walking regularly, stuff that could be done by land instead of by car) - never a bad idea.

But there's dozens of other things to be considered in cosplaying that are "more important" than "How you look" -- try socializing, exercising your improvision/ingenuity by presenting yourself the best you can given your resources, or even one of the "lost talents" of cosplay -- good masquerades! It's a shame so many people focus on weight and "image" instead of acting or presenting.

MissSCeleste
02-18-2005, 11:55 PM
Indeed. Well said Link. :bigtu:

When I first started hearing about cosplay (and seeing it) for sport instead of just doing it myself at work, I had the funny little idea in my head that it was like an improv acting thing, and you were playing like in the movie "The Mask". You were dressing up like the character so you could pretend to be someone beside yourself for a day. Then I started noticing it was more about the presentation of the costume and very few people actually got "into character".. infact those few who did do it were looked at funny.. or not well recieved.

I scratched my head at this at first, but now I'm used to it. I'd like there to be more of an improv. acting element thing going on with the cosplays, to me that would be more fun. Like the way the Renn. Fairs are but with anime... but I suppose thats a bit more difficult to do if you are shy or not really good at doing improv on the spot. Still, even if it's not about becoming the character, it is about the costuming itself rather then the body of the person wearing it. Everyones body is beautiful in some way, it's just a matter of figuiring out which bits are the most impressive and drawing attention tehre, and and away from the bits that aren'ts o impressive.

And to Miyu about my over the top wishful thinking...

"Progress in every age results only from the fact that there are some men and women who refuse to believe that what they know to be right cannot be done."

-- Russell W. Davenport

kyoushu
02-19-2005, 12:16 AM
I, personally, don't have a problem with people who don't...let's say, look too much like the charactres they cosplay. Myself? I don't really want to cosplay someone I don't look much like unless it's a character I REALLY like. I'm in it for both charcater love and the costume. I just think it would be awesome if, when I'm done with my costume, I can say "I AM Gaara."

Just like the other 1000000 Gaaras. >.>

Suguishi
02-19-2005, 12:27 AM
i don't think there is ANY excuse for overweight or underweight people to feel unhappy with themselves when they can easily take the initiative to do something to change that. i don't like hearing people whine. at all. :)


I say that it's not easy to just loose weight, but if you really do try, it will happen. There are two things that are the most important of all though 1) you need to feel comfortable about yourself, if you're skinny and you feel like shit, dun loose weight...duh..... but, if you DO feel happier, then do it and if your will is strong enough it will happen. 2) dun blame it on genetics. dun question it. Run away from it. it screws with the whole system of self motivation. "I'm stupid and can't do math promblems because of genetics", "I'm ugly becuase I'm asian", "I can't dance becasue I'm white." wtf, listen to yourself, this is not helping YOURSELF!!!!! Do the nike thing "JUST DO IT" (whatever it maybe... cosplaying or lossing weight, whatevers.).

kyoushu
02-19-2005, 12:38 AM
Some people ARE just lazy. I totally lack motivation for...well, most things. I think it's partly because, honestly, I'm a bit spoiled, and partly because I have the Wells lazy gene that plagues my father, his siblings, and maybe even their father.

...If I could just do my damn exercise everyday, I could drop 20 or 30 pounds after a while and be a total stud. Then again, the way I live, I'm lucky I'm not a total blimp or something.

Though, even with my extra padding, I'm dead sexy. You just wait for the photos... >.>

EDIT: Though, the Wells lazy gene is no excuse. My Dad has it and even he got to working out. I wonder what I can do to get motivated...

Celebrimbor
02-19-2005, 01:16 AM
Now that's just rude. You act like these people want to be overweight or are just lazy! Maybe it's easy for you to drop pounds but for some people obesity is genetic and it's actually very hard if not impossible without medical help. Keep in mind that you don't just wake up one day and decide to lose 20 pounds. It's actually a lengthy process that involves going to a doctor or nutritionist to design the best weight loss and exercise plan for your body type and lifestyle, perhaps even going to a support group to keep your moral up etc.etc.
I don't mean to single you out ( I'd quote Celebrimbor's posts but I think he's given up posting in this thread) but as for you having "no problem telling overweight people to get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable" I sincerely hope you do it in a nicer and more supportive manner than you demonstrated in your post. That's what all of us were originally trying to do in this thread...give support.


I haven't stopped following the thread, I was just waiting for something worth commenting on. I honestly agree with what you deride as being 'rude'.

I woke up one day and decided to shave my weight from 190 to 170. I've been at it since mid December, and I'm down to 178.

I don't agree with all that genetic bs; I acknowledge that it exists, but I don't think it's an excuse. It's just a way of telling yourself that it's not your fault, that you can be resentful and not have to cope with your own actions because you're "genetically disposed" to be fat. Total bs. You're just dodging the real issue: discipline and action, and how you lack it.

I do however think we should have a national eugenics program in the USA, to weed out such undesirables.

Kokuu
02-19-2005, 01:27 AM
I haven't stopped following the thread, I was just waiting for something worth commenting on. I honestly agree with what you deride as being 'rude'.

I woke up one day and decided to shave my weight from 190 to 170. I've been at it since mid December, and I'm down to 178.

I don't believe all that genetic bs. It's just a way of telling yourself that it's not your fault, that you can be resentful and not have to cope with your own actions because you're "genetically disposed" to be fat. Total bs. You're just dodging the real issue: discipline and action, and how you lack it.

I honestly think we should have a national eugenics program in the USA, though, to weed out people who are predisposed to eat too much.

Genetics DO have a lot to do with it. Both of my parents are overweight, my sister is overweight, and much of my extended family is overweight. Do I entirely blame genetics? No. A lot of it I blame on poor eating habits I developed as an adolescent, and that Iíve never been an extremely active person. However, because of genetics, Iím naturally a ďbigger personĒ and thereís nothing I can do about that. It probably also has to do with no matter how much I exercise and eat well, I canít get past this certain weight limit. And as I said earlier, Iíll never be a size 6. Itís PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE, unless you staple my stomach, and start removing muscle tissue, and perhaps even bone as well.

Celebrimbor
02-19-2005, 01:30 AM
Itís PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE, unless you staple my stomach, and start removing muscle tissue, and perhaps even as well.

Then do so. You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive.

Stomach stapling isn't that expensive anymore, because it's cheaper for insurance companies then dealing with heart disease.

Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

Neko_Kaolla
02-19-2005, 01:37 AM
Ignore everyone that tells you that you shouldn't do something nyou love because of your weight. I am not the most toned of people, but I am not fat. I still cosplay characters like Rikku and guess what? I DO NOT CARE.

You do what you do because you love doing it and have fun. Period. =^_^=v

Kokuu
02-19-2005, 01:39 AM
Then do so. You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive.

Stomach stapling isn't that expensive anymore, because it's cheaper for insurance companies then dealing with heart disease.

That's a really insensitive thing to say. Youíd be wise to retract that statement. You don't just get you're stomach stapled willy-nilly. It's a serious surgery, with lots or risk involved, and only recommended for people who are over 100 lbs overweight. If I lost that kind of weight, Iíd be stick and bones for my height. Iím only 30-35 lbs overweight for what my doctor considers to be healthy for my frame structure.

And what kind of Barbie-plastic world do you think we live in where EVERYTHING is based of off a really shallow ideal of appearance? Being skinny isnít going to make me any more popular or successful. Itís who I am as a person, not what I look like, that make me well liked.

Celebrimbor
02-19-2005, 01:42 AM
That's a really insensitive thing to say. Youíd be wise to retract that statement. You don't just get you're stomach stapled willy-nilly.

As insensitive as what I added to it?

Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

Kokuu
02-19-2005, 02:01 AM
As insensitive as what I added to it?

You know what? Iím above flaming and making personal attacks, so Iím just not going to even respond to that.

OoTLink
02-19-2005, 02:07 AM
Then do so. You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive.


And this is where any credibility you might have had goes out the window.


Stomach stapling isn't that expensive anymore, because it's cheaper for insurance companies then dealing with heart disease.

There's three types of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics.. Statistics prove that breathing causes cancer, so I'm sure they can prove anything you want.

Right out of one of the big studies:

"Risks are lowest in men and women with BMIs of 22 or less and increase with even modest elevations of BMI. In the Nurses' Health Study, which controlled for age, smoking, parental history of CHD, menopausal status, and hormone use, relative risks for CHD were twice as high at BMIs of 25 to 28.9, and more than three times as high at BMIs of 29 or greater, compared with BMIs of less than 21 (90)."

90. Willett WC, Manson JE, Stampfer MJ, et al. Weight, weight change, and coronary heart disease in women. Risk within the 'normal' weight range. JAMA. 1995;273:461-465.

So they lied. The source they're crediting is regarding women!

This means everybody that's 6' tall should weigh 162. Right?
[/quote]


Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

I think idiots should be exterminated, those who take media-proven studies as fact, rely on exaggerated statistics, and think law should decide how people take care of themselves.

Koronue
02-19-2005, 02:12 AM
Celebrimbor, I am absolutelly appaled AND hurt by what you posted. I can't believe how unbeliveably cruel that was to say. I am on the same page as Kokuu as that my family is just large and I have inherited those genes. But it's not my fault, and you know what? I'm not MADE to be that skinny. I'm not make excuses, it's a simple fact, because if I ever did get down to something like a size 6, it would just be unhealthy for me because my bone structure simply does not allow me to be so thin. For some people, it really is harder. Don't say it's bs, it's true and you have to accept that. I

If people are trying as best they can to lose weight if they need to, then don't degrade them if it's harder for them. At least their trying and it's not their fault if it's slow. Another point, some people are just fine being of a larger size and they ARE actually healthy that way. I know quite a few people who are 'larger' and just as healthy as some of my thinner friends.

And going through such extensive surgery just for looks sake ( be more popular? etc. give mea break! ), that is so superficial, I can't even start.

Ok all, I told myself I wouldn't post here, ebcause I was sure that all I would have to say would have already been told ( that you don't have to be "thin" to cosplay ) but those posts were just SO infuriating, that I had to write something.

Celebrimbor
02-19-2005, 02:16 AM
(Shrug)

I hardly care enough to bother posting statistics, or even facts. I don't care enough about the topic. I just hate fat people in the same way fanatic conservative christians hate gays and women who get abortions.

That's all I have to say for this month. Yes mods, I'll stop posting here.

Neo_Serenity
02-19-2005, 02:51 AM
I think idiots should be exterminated, those who take media-proven studies as fact, rely on exaggerated statistics, and think law should decide how people take care of themselves.


Well said, OoTLink. ^^ And I guess we know who would fit into that catagory...


And yes, mods please, this has gotten way out of hand... the person inciting problems on this, and MANY threads I have seen should be banned.

Celebrimbor
02-19-2005, 03:00 AM
Well said, OoTLink. ^^ And I guess we know who would fit into that catagory...


And yes, mods please, this has gotten way out of hand... the person inciting problems on this, and MANY threads I have seen should be banned.

This thread is an APPROPRIATE thread for me to express my opinion on this topic. I don't think overweight people should cosplay.

It's all very well and good for you to disagree with me, but don't even start with the "zomg you should be banned because you think different."

The very TOPIC of this thread is absolutely assured to make tempers flare because no one can depart from the mainstream without being percieved as offensive. If everyone went with the mainstream, it would disentegrate into a fat-cosplayer pity fest, which you already have with the Weight Loss Support Community thread, which if you've noticed I haven't posted in.

Are my opinions offensive? Yes. Are they totally irrelevant? Not entirely. It's not like I'm discussing this in a 'post your picture' thread; and the time I did I acknowledge was inappropriate, and a mod confronted me about it.

In any discussion about anything, there will be radical elements. I'm one of them. But don't cry censorship just because the radical element says something radical.

Neo_Serenity
02-19-2005, 03:23 AM
I thought in your previous post you had mentioned you weren't posting here anymore....


And yes, people are welcome to give their opinion in a constructive manner, but yours is not. Yours is reminscent of Hitler and his Nazist messages. Eugenics on fat people? I mean really... give me break. Quit trying to sound all know-it-all just because the majority of the people on this board are still in high school, and probably have no idea how insulting you are being.

If you are as educated as you pretend to be, then you should know better, and have more class then to be so rudely condenscending towards others. There IS a difference between that and constructive criticism.

Kokuu
02-19-2005, 03:24 AM
This thread is an APPROPRIATE thread for me to express my opinion on this topic. I don't think overweight people should cosplay.

It's all very well and good for you to disagree with me, but don't even start with the "zomg you should be banned because you think different."

The very TOPIC of this thread is absolutely assured to make tempers flare because no one can depart from the mainstream without being percieved as offensive. If everyone went with the mainstream, it would disentegrate into a fat-cosplayer pity fest, which you already have with the Weight Loss Support Community thread, which if you've noticed I haven't posted in.

Are my opinions offensive? Yes. Are they totally irrelevant? Not entirely. It's not like I'm discussing this in a 'post your picture' thread; and the time I did I acknowledge was inappropriate, and a mod confronted me about it.

In any discussion about anything, there will be radical elements. I'm one of them. But don't cry censorship just because the radical element says something radical.

Of course there are going to be differences of opinions; everyone has different experiences and beliefs. It is possible to disagree and carry on a civilized debate without being rude and abusive, like you have. I donít agree with everyone who has posted on this topic, but I respect their opinions, because they are polite about them, and donít go personally attacking people or groups of people.

Fine, you think overweight people shouldnít cosplay. Well, frankly youíre never going to get your way, and if youíre tired of looking at overweight people and think they should be exterminated, you might as well just spend the rest of your life locked in your house, since people come in all different shapes and sizes. Thatís just a fact of life, and I feel more sorry for you who canít accept that, then you could ever feel sorry for me because Iím fat.

Miyu
02-19-2005, 05:29 AM
Now that's just rude. You act like these people want to be overweight or are just lazy! Maybe it's easy for you to drop pounds but for some people obesity is genetic and it's actually very hard if not impossible without medical help. Keep in mind that you don't just wake up one day and decide to lose 20 pounds. It's actually a lengthy process that involves going to a doctor or nutritionist to design the best weight loss and exercise plan for your body type and lifestyle, perhaps even going to a support group to keep your moral up etc.etc.
I don't mean to single you out ( I'd quote Celebrimbor's posts but I think he's given up posting in this thread) but as for you having "no problem telling overweight people to get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable" I sincerely hope you do it in a nicer and more supportive manner than you demonstrated in your post. That's what all of us were originally trying to do in this thread...give support.


no, it's not rude. it's honest.

basically what i'm saying is that if i can do it, anyone can do it.

i'm tired of hearing excuses. humans are not genetically meant to be overweight - it does not contribute positively to the survival or general perpetuation of the species; thus it is an unnatural physical state of being in 99% of cases. overweight people here cannot just casually claim to be proprietors of an abnormal genome that is of such significance and rarity. many studies have been done on the subject. as an infant, you eat to satisfy your body's need for sustenance. you only eat until you're full, then you refuse any addtional food that is offered to you. as a human being grows older, sometimes a psychological trend of eating more than what one needs to survive for the subconscious "pleasure" or "comfort" of it develops.

simply put: people here can't languidly just blame it on genetics. they CAN however actually DO something about it. if they are motivated enough and have enough drive, i'm sure they can succeed where many others have given up. i know that it's not easy. i've BEEN there. if you need medical help, seek it. if you have the funds to get a nutritionalist, get one. if not, you have an entire internet teeming with information right here at your fingertips. it may not be easy - but it's not anywhere near as impossible a task as most people here have built it up to be. nothing in life is easy.

Kokuu
02-19-2005, 06:40 AM
no, it's not rude. it's honest.

basically what i'm saying is that if i can do it, anyone can do it.

i'm tired of hearing excuses. humans are not genetically meant to be overweight - it does not contribute positively to the survival or general perpetuation of the species; thus it is an unnatural physical state of being in 99% of cases. overweight people here cannot just casually claim to be proprietors of an abnormal genome that is of such significance and rarity. many studies have been done on the subject. as an infant, you eat to satisfy your body's need for sustenance. you only eat until you're full, then you refuse any addtional food that is offered to you. as a human being grows older, sometimes a psychological trend of eating more than what one needs to survive for the subconscious "pleasure" or "comfort" of it develops.

simply put: people here can't languidly just blame it on genetics. they CAN however actually DO something about it. if they are motivated enough and have enough drive, i'm sure they can succeed where many others have given up. i know that it's not easy. i've BEEN there. if you need medical help, seek it. if you have the funds to get a nutritionalist, get one. if not, you have an entire internet teeming with information right here at your fingertips. it may not be easy - but it's not anywhere near as impossible a task as most people here have built it up to be. nothing in life is easy.

I hate to be rude Miyu, but it looks like weight has never been a serious problem for you, so it's pretty unfair to say that if you can do it, then others "just can too", since it's a whole different ballpark.

Thereís one variable youíve failed to address: evolution. Humans are getting bigger as better food sources are available. The average height of a 17th century Englishman was 5í 6". For 17th-century English women, it was about 5í Ĺ". Today, the average (white) American male is 5í 9", and female 5í 3 ĺ". Even looking at one generation to another, children usually surpass the height of the parent of the same sex. At the same time, Americans have also been gradually getting heavier, but the ideas of beauty in women have remained more or less static since the mid 20th century. So whoís really to say what is overweight, afterall.

I wonít deny the obesity epidemic of this country, because itís an increasing problem. But to say that genetics have no affect on weight is ludicrous, because they do. Genetics can make weight loss VERY difficult for some people. I canít get below this certain weight no matter how much I exercise and eat right- I pretty much hit a brick wall, and my weight stays static. People have different metabolism levels (also partially determined by genetics) which largely plays into weight loss.

But at the same time we canít entirely blame genetics, since there are parts that are our own faults as well. I blame a lot of my being overweight to the fact that I learned poor eating habits, and didnít eat very well as a kid. Since the third grade, Iíve been concerned about my weight since I was always at the top of the height and weight percentile charts. For a long time my doctor wouldnít let me make an effort to lose weight other then eating healthy and staying active since my body was still growing. (If youíre young- please donít diet or fret about your weight, unless your doctor says you need to lose weight, since if you try to diet at a young age, it can affect your growth). But now that I'm an adult, I want to do something about it. Maybe not so much to "look" better, as to "feel" better. Frankly, I could really care less about signifacant weight loss. I just want to get back in shape again, and have my doctor tell me that even though the charts may say I'm overweight, I'm as healthy as an ox.

Mich
02-19-2005, 09:48 AM
This is a very interesting thread which I have been reading...I agree with quite a bit Miyu has been posting, but she has been saying it in a blunt, not flowery way....
I also had a weight issue a few years back,it just sort of crept up on me, and it was only when a pair of leather trousers didn't fit that I realised I had a problem,otherwise I would have made excuses and said 'oh they've shrunk in the wash'....
It actually took me a year to get the weight off and to stay off, and at first I used Gymbody pads etc, but I never actually went on a diet( as they are bad),I tried not to deny myself anything, but only ate half a chocolate bar,and anything that was low fat...This worked for me.Now I know that many ppl say' Oh, I couldn't only eat half', but you have to work with what's right for you....Over the year my stomach shrank, so I just don't need the quantity of food anymore...
Now....I don't think it's fair to say' If I can do it anyone can' because everyone has a different level of will power, and set of circumstances that they are dealing with....
As to the subject of overweight cosplay....it's like anything in life...ppl try to put you in a little box,and as long as you enjoy the hobby then have fun with it. There will always be mean ppl that say you're too fat, too old( in my case),too this or that....Just try to fit an outfit that you feel comfortable in, and above all..WEAR IT WITH CONFIDENCE....It will make such a difference...
....but all YOU have to remember is( which I've said before)
When THEY pay your rent/ mortgage/bills,THEN you can worry about what THEY think/say.... :p

Bobbi
02-19-2005, 10:40 AM
This thread is an APPROPRIATE thread for me to express my opinion on this topic. I don't think overweight people should cosplay.

It's all very well and good for you to disagree with me, but don't even start with the "zomg you should be banned because you think different."


Well then, maybe you'd better think about your own self image before you start dictating what other people should wear. IMHO, you're not drop-dead gorgeous or nicely built and trim either. Maybe when you improve that, get YOUR stomach stapled ("it's cheap!" as you said), people will respect your opinion a bit more. This is nothing more but a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

There's nothing wrong with having different opinions. I respect other people's opinions... But you, Celebrimbor are coming off as rude, arrogant, and self-righteous, among other things, which I will refrian from stating here.

You can have your opinions about overweight people cosplaying, but you know what? If they're not something that is of any help to anyone on this site, keep them to yourself. Ask that people who are overweight wear appropriate costumes that do not show areas like their stomach. Fine. Asking people to only wear big huge robes, or not cosplay AT ALL because you say so is in all honesty arrogant, stupid and furthermore, futile.

Sure it's a free country, and you can do whatever the hell you please. Be aware that you can tell someone to not cosplay in the streets, but in a convention center and on cosplay communities like these, it is not something that will be tolerated. In my experiences with working security, if someone came up to me and let me know that some idiot was telling them to not cosplay because they were fat, I'd approach them and ask them to cut it out. If they continued doing so, and causing problems for others, I bet you their badge would be revoked. How's that for opinion? Furthermore, you're of absolutely no help to the integrity of this site and community by tearing others down and dictating what you think is right.

----------------------

Regarding Miyu now... ^_^

At any rate, it does bother me when people do complain, whine and feel miserable about themselves but do little to help it. I know of people personally who feel very depressed about their weight, but 10 minutes later they're eating something they shouldn't.

However, I think everyone should have realistic goals about their weight loss if they choose to do so. Some people will never go down to a size 6 without starving themselves and being extremely unhealthy on the other end of the scale first. Personally, size 12 for me was thin. Mind you, that was when I was 14, I have since grown more and went through puberty. I suppose I could've gotten thinner, but anything smaller than say, maybe 10 would've been too thin in my opinion. Personally, I don't know if I could ever go down past 12. If I could fit in a size 12 again, I would be quite happy. My goal though, is to go down to a 13/14 (that's like 2 dress sizes, I'm 16-18 now). I just have a very large frame, plus I'm short >_<. The elbow width they use to measure what your frame size is on me is about 3 inches. So that's up there.

Everyone does have certian reasons for why they weigh what they do. Some people come from a home where they've always eaten a certian way. Practically every night, we have beef and potatoes. That doesn't make it an excuse for a person who wants to loose weight. I eat very little at dinner, or I make myself a salad with some grilled chicken or something on it. I buy my own groceries. I also get a good deal of excersize at work, but as soon as it's warm outside, I'm riding my bike a few miles every day or so. It's really just an issue of changing habits... but realize that habits are hard to change sometimes. Also people have their own circumstances, and sometimes it will be harder for them to drop the pounds if they wish than it would for others. Also, if you take another woman my age who's 5'4"... she could be in a size 6. Me however, I won't ever go down to that size without starving myself. That doesn't mean a size 12 or 13 will not be healthy for me. It really does vary from person to person.

Tia
02-19-2005, 10:57 AM
It's not like I'm discussing this in a 'post your picture' thread; and the time I did I acknowledge was inappropriate, and a mod confronted me about it.

You never publically acknowledged it. From what I have heard, there have been many such instances. Yes, this is the appropriate place for a discussion like this, but there is a difference between voicing your opinion and being outright rude and offensive to people. It's all in the way you choose your words and the attitude that goes with your opinion. You don't seem to understand this difference. Personally, I don't really care whether or not you are banned, but if you keep acting in such a way sooner or later it's going to happen.

Anna
02-19-2005, 11:01 AM
no, it's not rude. it's honest.

basically what i'm saying is that if i can do it, anyone can do it.

i'm tired of hearing excuses. humans are not genetically meant to be overweight - it does not contribute positively to the survival or general perpetuation of the species; thus it is an unnatural physical state of being in 99% of cases. overweight people here cannot just casually claim to be proprietors of an abnormal genome that is of such significance and rarity. many studies have been done on the subject. as an infant, you eat to satisfy your body's need for sustenance. you only eat until you're full, then you refuse any addtional food that is offered to you. as a human being grows older, sometimes a psychological trend of eating more than what one needs to survive for the subconscious "pleasure" or "comfort" of it develops.

simply put: people here can't languidly just blame it on genetics. they CAN however actually DO something about it. if they are motivated enough and have enough drive, i'm sure they can succeed where many others have given up. i know that it's not easy. i've BEEN there. if you need medical help, seek it. if you have the funds to get a nutritionalist, get one. if not, you have an entire internet teeming with information right here at your fingertips. it may not be easy - but it's not anywhere near as impossible a task as most people here have built it up to be. nothing in life is easy.
Okay so you're saying that I can just get some magical cure for my abnormal bone structure? Or the fact that I don't eat junk food, fried food, bad carbs, or red meat, means that my being overweight is still the cause of overeating? Because last time I checked I only had 3 meals, 2 snacks, and 2000 to 1800 calorie consumtion a day. People don't just get, or look overweight becuase of eating. They're are very many different conditions, that make it harder for your body to burn things. Saying that there isn't any is just ignorant, rude, and you should RESEARCH things like I have before you claim them a fact. Prettty much the only way I could ever be thin is by literally STARVING. Of course if there's something I could do maybe I should do it, right?

Miyabi-
02-19-2005, 12:27 PM
Qutoed from Kokku
I hate to be rude Miyu, but it looks like weight has never been a serious problem for you, so it's pretty unfair to say that if you can do it, then others "just can too", since it's a whole different ballpark.

Thereís one variable youíve failed to address: evolution. Humans are getting bigger as better food sources are available. The average height of a 17th century Englishman was 5í 6". For 17th-century English women, it was about 5í Ĺ". Today, the average (white) American male is 5í 9", and female 5í 3 ĺ". Even looking at one generation to another, children usually surpass the height of the parent of the same sex. At the same time, Americans have also been gradually getting heavier, but the ideas of beauty in women have remained more or less static since the mid 20th century. So whoís really to say what is overweight, afterall.

I wonít deny the obesity epidemic of this country, because itís an increasing problem. But to say that genetics have no affect on weight is ludicrous, because they do. Genetics can make weight loss VERY difficult for some people. I canít get below this certain weight no matter how much I exercise and eat right- I pretty much hit a brick wall, and my weight stays static. People have different metabolism levels (also partially determined by genetics) which largely plays into weight loss.

But at the same time we canít entirely blame genetics, since there are parts that are our own faults as well. I blame a lot of my being overweight to the fact that I learned poor eating habits, and didnít eat very well as a kid. Since the third grade, Iíve been concerned about my weight since I was always at the top of the height and weight percentile charts. For a long time my doctor wouldnít let me make an effort to lose weight other then eating healthy and staying active since my body was still growing. (If youíre young- please donít diet or fret about your weight, unless your doctor says you need to lose weight, since if you try to diet at a young age, it can affect your growth). But now that I'm an adult, I want to do something about it. Maybe not so much to "look" better, as to "feel" better. Frankly, I could really care less about signifacant weight loss. I just want to get back in shape again, and have my doctor tell me that even though the charts may say I'm overweight, I'm as healthy as an ox.

Well said. That was exactly the point that I was trying to get across. Thank you! ^_^

MargueriteChain
02-19-2005, 01:19 PM
Then do so. You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive.

Stomach stapling isn't that expensive anymore, because it's cheaper for insurance companies then dealing with heart disease.

Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

Ah, yes, because being overweight is so much of a greater sin than, say, a history of abuse in the family, or a tendancy toward alcoholism in the family, or drug abuse, or anything that's actually *important*.

I am overweight. I'd much rather be overweight and come from a healthy family environment than be thin and have been abused by my parents and likely to abuse my own children. In the grand scheme of things, what you weigh is FAR less important a factor than what kind of person you are. Saying that overweight people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce is just sick, and wrong. My weight, like my ability to have children, is my business, no one else's.

I further question your conclusion that thin people will "live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive" than fat people. The women in my family (all fat) tend to live well into our nineties, sometimes even our hundreds. I do not feel that being fat has made me less popular than I would have been if I was thin. As to being more successful--what on Earth has weight to do with that?! And as for being more attractive, I happen to think a good personality a good deal more likely to *attract* people than a thin body will ever be.

xiola
02-19-2005, 01:37 PM
miyu, all you have to do is look at your bones to see that it's natural for you to be skinny. i know lots of people with bones twice your size -

i have to cite a friend of mine as an example:
a) she is around 5'4" and over 200 lbs
b) visually she is more "rounded" than "muscular", yet the majority of the weight isn't in the stomach, and poke most parts of her body and they are HARD not squishy, with muscle (legs, butt, arms),
c) when measuring her elbow bones (one of the easiests generic bone to measure because it's close to the surface on almost anyone), they are probably at least 50% wider than mine.
d) at around 30, she recently took a cholesterol and blood pressure test with a group of healthy 14 yr old girls and had the LOWEST cholesterol and best blood pressure of all of them!

does this seem like a person who would be "naturally" skinny to you?

on the other hand, i am almost 5'7", get NO significant exercise, and have been the quite healthy weight of 120 pounds for years without much effort - big surprise, i also have long thin bones, a tall dad, a relatively small mother, and ate healthy food as a child.

sure the majority of americans are way fatter than they have to be because of ridiculously huge american portions and fast food, and i am certainly NOT discounting the reality of lifestyle shaping = body shaping, but to say that it doesn't ever go FURTHER than that is a bit hard to believe coming from someone with obviously good bone structure to begin with... it's impossible to discount the fact that bone structure and childhood weight DO have alot to do with how hard it is to loose weight as an adult.

being un-skinny is not neccessarily evolutionally wrong - as i mentioned, my large friend above has great cholesterol and blood pressure, at what would normally be considered quite "overweight"! everyone has a pleateau built into their genes - it's also an obvious fact that someone *can't ever become thinner than their hip bones*, and if their hip bones are very wide to begin with, they will probably never be FLAT between them, and wouldn't even look healthy if they were.

as i said before, i certainly agree that there are SO MANY people far above their plateau weight, especially in america, but i guess basically what i'm saying is that a "balanced weight" is in fact NOT 100% flat-stomached skinny for everyone.

P.S. as an aside, to the person who claimed skinny people woudl be more attractive and popular: explain the fact that my aforementioned friend, for the whole time i've known her usually has more than 5 guys with obvious crushes on her or practically stalking her for attention? :P (and she does not dress the least bit skanky or act like a whore, or have lots of money, etc.)

Sarcasm-hime
02-19-2005, 02:01 PM
I 100% agree with Xiola. I know a number of people whose families are all from the same area of Scotland, and they all have the same build - big and stocky, with short arms and legs. NONE of them eat tons of junk food as you seem to imply 'all' fat people do, yet they would be considered 'overweight' at first glance. But that physique is NATURAL to them. By contrast, the Dinka tribe in Africa are genetically very tall and skinny (they look almost emaciated to us, but that's just the way they're built). There is no one 'correct' body shape for all humans.

Yes, there are many people that do overeat and could reduce their weight by changing their lifestyle, and that's a legitimate concern. But to claim that ALL people can do that is naive and offensive. Just because something was easy for YOU does not mean that every person out there is the same as you and could do it just as easily. Obviously you were overweight because of lifestyle, so changing your lifestyle made it easy to lose weight. But people come in all shapes and sizes. Many people can eat right and get exercise and still be considered 'overweight' according to the current standard of beauty, but they're healthy for THEM and that's all that matters.

Kokuu
02-19-2005, 02:03 PM
miyu, all you have to do is look at your bones to see that it's natural for you to be skinny. i know lots of people with bones twice your size -

i have to cite a friend of mine as an example:
a) she is around 5'4" and over 200 lbs
b) visually she is more "rounded" than "muscular", yet the majority of the weight isn't in the stomach, and poke most parts of her body and they are HARD not squishy, with muscle (legs, butt, arms),
c) when measuring her elbow bones (one of the easiests generic bone to measure because it's close to the surface on almost anyone), they are probably at least 50% wider than mine.
d) at around 30, she recently took a cholesterol and blood pressure test with a group of healthy 14 yr old girls and had the LOWEST cholesterol and best blood pressure of all of them!

does this seem like a person who would be "naturally" skinny to you?


Thank you! This is what I've been trying to get across. You can be "overweight" and still be healthy.

Even though I've thrown averages around a bit, you have to be very careful of them. They are easily affected by outliers, and so are a very poor judgement of the center, unless they are symetrically distributed. (I sound like my stats professor now XD) Don't let any website or any person tell you that you're overweight/underweight. If you're worried- consult your doctor. S/he knows what is the proper weight for you and can advise you what to do.

Neko_Kaolla
02-19-2005, 03:46 PM
This thread is an APPROPRIATE thread for me to express my opinion on this topic. I don't think overweight people should cosplay.

It's all very well and good for you to disagree with me, but don't even start with the "zomg you should be banned because you think different."

The very TOPIC of this thread is absolutely assured to make tempers flare because no one can depart from the mainstream without being percieved as offensive. If everyone went with the mainstream, it would disentegrate into a fat-cosplayer pity fest, which you already have with the Weight Loss Support Community thread, which if you've noticed I haven't posted in.

Are my opinions offensive? Yes. Are they totally irrelevant? Not entirely. It's not like I'm discussing this in a 'post your picture' thread; and the time I did I acknowledge was inappropriate, and a mod confronted me about it.

In any discussion about anything, there will be radical elements. I'm one of them. But don't cry censorship just because the radical element says something radical.

It is true that the original poster would want honest answers, but also support. Cosplay is something we do because we like it. That's it. What you have been saying in your past posts can be summed up in "everyone should be skinny."

Sorry to resort to "flaming," but that attitude is what causes girls (and boys alike) to develope eating disorders or the like.

You are really insinsitive and I agree with other posters-you should either retract your statements or, God forbid, be banned.

Anna
02-19-2005, 03:57 PM
Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.
It sounds to me like he's suggesting a halacuast.

NiGHTmaren
02-19-2005, 04:12 PM
I must say I am APALLED at what is being said here. Ok, so you don't like seeing overweight people, who cares? And whoever thinks that people can control their own weight apparently know diddly about the real facts. Some people have thyroid problems, which causes them to be naturally obese...they don't CHOOSE to be large, the stereotype that all overweight people are the same and eat too much continues to consume people's minds and make them forget about things. I don't claim to know all the facts out there, but I do know a thing or two and I DO know that it's not right to criticize people for how much they weigh.

I'm 85 lbs and 4'11", many doctors would say I have a problem...sure, opposite end of the spectrum from overweight but it's still the same. People criticize me, think I eat nothing or throw up my food, and I never have had an eating disorder in my LIFE. I eat as much as everyone else does, but for some reason I can't gain or lose weight, and haven't for about 6 years straight. Probably has to do with my metabolism and YES it IS a genetic trait...so those who say weight issues aren't genetic needs to throw that thought out the window right now, because it can be.

As for cosplay...cosplay who you want. Any costume can be made to look good, sometimes you have to make alterations. No one is going to be a carbon copy of a character from height to weight to perfectly matched physical features so just get over it.

As for the comments on things like "kill all overweight people" and "you all should get stomach staples", I hope you realize how provincial-minded you are and that such thoughts when said out loud could get your ass kicked, such thoughts aren't tolerated in this day and age and you will get ZERO RESPECT from any rational-minded person.

That is all.

Kakujjitsu Yuub
02-19-2005, 04:50 PM
While being overweight causes some costume difficulty it is by no means any excuse not to dress up. I have attended year ater year of ren fests (And one con) in Costume. While it is not possible to pull off some costume pieces and while I would never wear anything like spandex this does not mean I'd never wear a costume. I went as Itsuki last year and I think I may go as Piro this year. Even if I am plus sized and the other people think it disgusting they will just have to live with it. lol Oh and just to show that even though I personally cannot stand how i look and would trade it in to be skinny. Here is to show how little I care about it. I am a six foot tall guy who weights 336 lbs. And I typiclly have to wear 4x size shirts so that it drapes on me.

Koronue
02-19-2005, 04:50 PM
I must say I am APALLED at what is being said here. Ok, so you don't like seeing overweight people, who cares? And whoever thinks that people can control their own weight apparently know diddly about the real facts. Some people have thyroid problems, which causes them to be naturally obese...they don't CHOOSE to be large, the stereotype that all overweight people are the same and eat too much continues to consume people's minds and make them forget about things. I don't claim to know all the facts out there, but I do know a thing or two and I DO know that it's not right to criticize people for how much they weigh.

I'm 85 lbs and 4'11", many doctors would say I have a problem...sure, opposite end of the spectrum from overweight but it's still the same. People criticize me, think I eat nothing or throw up my food, and I never have had an eating disorder in my LIFE. I eat as much as everyone else does, but for some reason I can't gain or lose weight, and haven't for about 6 years straight. Probably has to do with my metabolism and YES it IS a genetic trait...so those who say weight issues aren't genetic needs to throw that thought out the window right now, because it can be.

As for cosplay...cosplay who you want. Any costume can be made to look good, sometimes you have to make alterations. No one is going to be a carbon copy of a character from height to weight to perfectly matched physical features so just get over it.

As for the comments on things like "kill all overweight people" and "you all should get stomach staples", I hope you realize how provincial-minded you are and that such thoughts when said out loud could get your ass kicked, such thoughts aren't tolerated in this day and age and you will get ZERO RESPECT from any rational-minded person.

That is all.

Hm...you voice my opnion so much better than me.:D Thank you for saying what I was trying to say in such a clear manner. I agree 100%. ^^

Hikaruchan
02-19-2005, 09:16 PM
I will never be a size 6 either due to bone structure(scottish ancestory strikes again), I just want to work on getting my weight back down to my plateau range that had me in about a size 14. Recently I made decisions that will hopefully help me reach that realistic goal - quit job that was wearing me down so that I was not eating right or exercising much, and moving back to be close to family as my mom and I are already talking about trying to restart eating right for our health (its easier to do if have someone to team with). So while I have weight I want to lose, stomach stapling is out as what I need to loose is less than what they say you should be over - plus there can be complications from that so its not something to be taken lightly. So I will never be thin, big deal. I will cosplay who I want for as long as I want (and my non-thin family has had 2 people who lived to be 103 and several more to their 90s).

xiola
02-20-2005, 01:37 AM
yeah, as for families with a history of being big living quite long, skinny people aren't always the best seniors either - on the flipside, i'm lean-boned and don't have eating problems but since i'm not athletic it's basically almost certain i'll get osteoporosis, among other things - most of my grandparents have gotten it, and my grandmother got it despite drinking tons of milk and vegetables all her life :P so skinny isn't omg healthy forever. not to mention the payoff of my bone structure is that i have no cleavage to speak of ;PP

so... you know. i guess i'm just saying most things that seem bad aren't 100% that way, and most things that seem good aren't 100% that way either? ^_^

Angel Tifa
02-20-2005, 01:38 AM
This thread is an APPROPRIATE thread for me to express my opinion on this topic. I don't think overweight people should cosplay.

I don't even know you, but let me say this; I don't ever remember this thread saying it gave you the right to express your opinions with harassment.

It's all very well and good for you to disagree with me, but don't even start with the "zomg you should be banned because you think different."

Well of course anyone who see's how your putting this, someone won't like it and someone at a time or another will have the opinion of people with how you're behaving will say you should be banned. I'm not saying you should, but someone will think this.


The very TOPIC of this thread is absolutely assured to make tempers flare because no one can depart from the mainstream without being percieved as offensive. If everyone went with the mainstream, it would disentegrate into a fat-cosplayer pity fest, which you already have with the Weight Loss Support Community thread, which if you've noticed I haven't posted in.

So are you saying it gave you the okay to flame? You're saying you support hate against those cosplayers with a high BMI? This is the type of behavior similar to a Natzi.


In any discussion about anything, there will be radical elements. I'm one of them. But don't cry censorship just because the radical element says something radical.

Instead of crying about it, I intend to stand up for the rights of any cosplayer, overweight or not, by using my head instead of my emotions(learned the hard way in another forum). To conclude this, even by law, you are not given the right for this verbal abuse. I sure hope you don't do this IRL because you would regret ever going up to a bigger cosplayer and pick a fight. Not only that, if you were doing that at a convention and a security gaurd was watching you and you didn't know it(saying hypotheically), you would be in big trouble for assault. You better watch what you'll say if you intend to do this IRL.

Kakujjitsu Yuub
02-20-2005, 03:38 AM
I am making this second post after reading the entire thread. Originally this thread started with the idea that an overweight girl could not / should not go to Cosplay. Later a well intending young woman raised an issue. (Miyu) with the idea anyone can become thin if they put their mind to it. And this thread has also had the "radical" opinion of one Celebrimbor raised.

I want to discuss each of these points and each of the opinions made (I will not quote every pro plus sized cosplayers because there are so many)

First the issues of Celebrimbor.

First may I say that I do not speak out against ones opinion? However I speak out against to the 'Hitler' approach you would take upon this world. Lets examine the most recent of your postings.

"You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive."

Will people live longer? Perhaps this is true. Being overweight though does not ESSENTIALLY cause heart attacks. There have been cases of overweight people with perfect cholesterol. There have been cases of skinny people having Heart attacks. Does being over weight increase the risk? Well yes in some cases. My doctor recently told me myself I should loose weight because it MIGHT RISK ME LATER ON. Now, what is the cause of my being overweight? Well I cannot exercise that much because I have a lung condition from being born premature. (No my mother never did drugs, or smoked, I just could not stay in) I do not eat that much but this lack of exercise has caused me to be overweight (I assume anyways)

Will a person be more popular? People who only associate with others based on their looks are egotistical and shallow. Be it because of weight, skin color, nationality, etc. It has been shown (sadly) that beauty does attract people but are those, the kind of people you want attracted to you? It is the same principle as being rich. Your true friends, and the true human beings are the ones that care about you and want you to be happy regardless of your current situation. The same should apply to looks. If I suddenly became the most attractive man in the world I would hope I would remember who my friends where and turn away those who treated me badly but suddenly treated me well.

Will a person be more successful? Only to shallow people. I fail to see how unless you desire to be a model, an athlete, or a trophy mate as to how your appearance should make you more successful. A wonderful writer who woo's someone with words of truth and beauty regardless of their appearance wins the hearts of others. (The lesson of Cyrano de Bergerac) An accountant for a big business it won't matter how he or she looks so long as they are saving money and making things more efficient they are not going to be fired if a stupid babe magnet or super model without a brain comes in for the job.

More attractive? Sadly in todayís modern society this is probably indeed true. Having good looks is (to me) a Fringe benefit. A wonderful person is sadly a little bit better if they are beautiful as well. (I speak honestly. I look at a woman first for her personality though if she is cute it is all the better) so I will give you that being thin and attractive IS a bonus.. But it is NOT what a decision should be made on. I would rather spend eons with an overweight woman who was kind and compassionate than a self centered, self-righteous and egotistical woman any day. Can you honestly say different?

Now while those opinions that you stated on your own are indeed within reason I do believe your further comments carried things to far.

"I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests."

If I may speak frankly I would hope to never be a friend with someone who would choose me on my appearance. Have you ever made friends with someone online to discover they where overweight? Does that change how you think of them? Another question I wish to pose is are you saying these things out of a 'genuine' concern of overweight people? Well letís look at the rest of your post

"But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing."

Well evidently not.. If you REALLY where saying these things out of a desire to 'help the human race' Genocide is not one of them. If I may borrow a quote from A Christmas Carol "Who are you to decide who shall live and who shall die?" Not to speak offensively but I pity anyone who would make friends with you then not meet your standards if you killed everyone overweight you met. What makes you select overweight people for this 'ethnic cleansing' of yours? While you are at it why don't we just say all left-handed people, or all color blind people? Is there some reason that Caucasian skinny people are not in this category of yours? I apologize I am getting off track of the discussion.


Now my response to the postings of Miyu. (Part of a response to Celebrimbor as well)

While I disagree in some regard to your posts I hope you will not take this as a 'flame' or my 'just to argue' that's not what I am doing at all (or if I do it is not my intent) I will not sugar coat it. I am overweight; I am over 320 lbs and 6 foot tall. I am overweight (Though in my opinion I am at least not OBESSE) In your posts you suggested that it is easy to loose weight if one really strives for it. Well in my experience I have encountered roughly 4 ways to loose weight.
1. Eat less
2. Exercise more
3. Have liposuction / Stomach Staple
4. Try those diet pills and medicines.

Now right away we can vote out option 3 because Lypo suction costs a great deal of money (Despite what Celebrimbor says) and I do not wish to risk my life going under (I've seen plenty of specials on accidents and death from it.)

So we can examine the remaining issues here.

Eat less. What if one doesnít eat much already? It has also been shown eating less does not help one loose weight a constant fire needs to be kept going and starving yourself does not work.

Exercise more. A good option and one that even 15 minutes a day helps, but it cannot be overlooked that this is just not possible for some people or if so it is very difficult.

Try diet pills and medicine. There are so many diet plans out there it would be crazy to try them all. These too cost money that is sometimes not available.

In summary I would just like to make a few notations

Miyu. While I agree in part with you, if one REALLY MORE THAN ANYTHING desires to loose weight (And puts it at the top of their list) Yes, they can and will. However this is a process that takes a GREAT DEAL of time in some cases. (No few month adventure)


In response to Celebrimbor I now speak more abruptly and I hope everyone may forgive me if I am rude. Your belief overweight people should be cleansed from this Earth can be likened to Hitler. I would be sickened if your 'idea' was legal and you where allowed to go around killing any overweight people you met. This world does not need less overweight people; it needs less self-absorbed people. Also do you have some strange belief that there is a time limit to a person getting thin? Do you believe "You should be killed unless you make yourself thin in ____ years?" Because evidently if it where up to you to press a button and obliterate all 'non perfect' people in the world you'd press it now. Well what about those working on it? Or would you reserve them a place cause they are trying to be your ideal?

In closing I will make my remarks to the threads original problem / topic.

Should overweight people be barred from cosplay? NO. No more than skinny people should be banned from restaurants or anyone from the public library.

Should overweight people be conscious of what they where? Yes, but just as much as a thin person should be. There is a right place for all sorts of clothing. I have seen even slightly skinny people wear skintight see through clothes and it is an unpleasant view) Wear what you think is appropriate and what you feel comfortable with. (I wear shorts seldom because I think I have fat upper legs) But I know some overweight people that can do this just fine and I think they look good in it. I have cosplayed in a 3-piece suit before but I wouldn't wear spandex a size to small. Just because you do not have the EXACT face, body, hair of a character is no reason not to go as them.

That is all.... oh sept one last comment to Celebrimbor. How would you feel if some all-powerful authority decided everyone that looked just like you should die or be forbidden from having relationships with anyone? Just cause you where not theyíre ideal?

Kokuu
02-20-2005, 04:22 AM
Kakujjitsu Yuub- Well said! Thank you.

So to shift topics slightly: how do you feel about using a particular costume as a means of motivation? Iím a firm believer that you shouldnít do anything just for cosplay, but it can be a good means of motivation. I recently got this idea to cosplay as Leeloo from The Fifth Element, since I have a couple of friends who are interested in starting a Fifth Element group for ComicCon. Her costume is VERY skimpy- just some well-placed bandages. Iíll never as skinny as Milla Jovovich in a million years, but I think if I loose a bit of weight, tone my muscles and flatten my stomach some, modify the costume a bit and wear body tights, I could maybe pull it off. I have 5 months- it could happen. But I think if I dangle the "impossible" in front of me, I'll be more motivated to work harder.

In case you don't know who I'm talking about, I've attached a picture of the costume. Oh boy, is that skimpy... Pipe dream, maybe. We'll just have to see.

allyunion
02-20-2005, 04:43 AM
Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? You don't mind overweight people, yet you wish them all to be exterminated? How very illogical.

"I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance."

Right, then you shouldn't mind overweight people.

"But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing."

But, this means you dislike overweight people, which is a contradiction. You do know that physical looks are not entirely determined by genetics, right? (By this I mean, a guy who's ultra fit with a 6 pack of abs and looks like Tom Cruise, and a girl who's like thin and super sexy like Pamela Anderson may not produce a child who's thin and beautiful... might get a child who's fat and ugly.) That certain famous actors, and famous people actually have lost weight and their genetics, including genetics which may attribute to a person to become overweight, will be passed on to their son or daughter, correct? So... how can you really draw the line of who is overweight and who isn't? Can you really tell the difference between an overweight person's genetics from a person who's really went through the effort to loose all their weight? The answer is quite obvious, no, you really can't. And culturally, in some countries, people of girth are considered attractive. For some reason, we have this mindset that "attractive" means ultra-thin model look.

It's kind of strange that you'd be critical of overweight people when you might have been made fun of yourself when you were a child for glasses. No one here has expressed a comment like, "Oh, everyone with bad eye sight who wears glasses should get laser eye surgery or get contacts or get shot." And before you tell me that I'm being flammatory, I wear glasses, thank you very much, and I'm proud of it. Celebrimbor, as other people have already claimed, you are no Michaelango's David, nor are you an Adonis, or Apollo for that matter... nor am I. But I'm not the one claiming that obese people should be exterminated. To what extent are you going to claim that for the "purification of genes"? Hmm? If, indeed, you are claiming that people who are obese should not breed, then it is really boils down to genetics and a person's genes... After all, a good deal is genetic, and some of it enviroment. How about male baldness? People with Asperger's syndrome? People with genetically caused cancer?

And by the way, I'm certain you were appauled at Peter Jackson's parents for giving birth to an overweight child. I'm certain you'd never wanted Chris Farley to born either, by your standards of acceptance. I'm certain you'd prefer that John Candy's parents never gave birth to such a talented child. Consider: John Goodman, Emeril Lagasse, Dana Elcar (played Peter Thornton on MacGyver), John Rhys-Davis (most recent role, Lord of the Rings as Gimili, also known for his role in Sliders as Professor Arturo), Drew Carey, John Belushi, Louie Anderson, Oliver Hardy, Roscoe Arbuckle, Jackie Gleason, Roseanne Barr, Rosie O'Donnell, Wayne Knight ("Seinfeld's" Newman), Jason Alexander... my list can go on.


In any discussion about anything, there will be radical elements. I'm one of them. But don't cry censorship just because the radical element says something radical.

Does this give anyone the right to be radical and slap you upside the head for being stupid? Certainly not. Does this give anyone the right to be verbally abusive and demean you? Also, certainly not.

Does it give the right for a radio station in New York to play a racist song and make fun of Tsunami victims? They may have the right to do so, but it's something that they really shouldn't. Not because it's morally wrong, but more because many people will feel its wrong and it is not in the spirit of compassion. Fine, you can have your disagreement. You may radically state something, and it is your right to, but you have to remember, the line is already drawn for you in plain sight by the person (or people) who owns, maintains, and runs this server. That line is there, and although you have every right to cross it... it doesn't mean you need to, nor you should. Chances are, if you do, the person (or people) who owns, maintains, and runs this server has every liberty and the power to prevent you from posting on this server. Although, you may have every right to contest, object, and question that person's (or people) judgement on their decision... whatever they decide is ultimately up to them.

no, it's not rude. it's honest.

basically what i'm saying is that if i can do it, anyone can do it.

Right. You can be honest, but you don't have to be extremely offensive and blunt about it. You can be polite and honest, as well as have some manners. But don't you agree that you might have a higher metabolism than some other people? I've known people who eat a lot of food than I do and stay thin as sticks. Does this mean they are healthy? No. Why? Their cholesterol could be extremely high, but they could look physically healthy.

i'm tired of hearing excuses. humans are not genetically meant to be overweight - it does not contribute positively to the survival or general perpetuation of the species; thus it is an unnatural physical state of being in 99% of cases. overweight people here cannot just casually claim to be proprietors of an abnormal genome that is of such significance and rarity. many studies have been done on the subject. as an infant, you eat to satisfy your body's need for sustenance. you only eat until you're full, then you refuse any addtional food that is offered to you. as a human being grows older, sometimes a psychological trend of eating more than what one needs to survive for the subconscious "pleasure" or "comfort" of it develops.

I don't quite follow your logic here. Humans are not mean to be genetically overweight. Hmm... have you ever considered that in certain areas, survival might require you to be overweight? Like, the extra layers of fat keep you from freezing from death?

(continued on next post)

allyunion
02-20-2005, 04:46 AM
(continued from previous post)

If we are going to discuss about this, at least we should have the facts present.

From: http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/body_weight/overweight/genetics.htm
A Scientists have been working hard in an effort to identify genes that have the potential to make us fat. And it does seem there may be a genetic link to overweight and obesity Ė but only in a small number of people.

As a result, most experts agree that while genes may have a part to play, they still donít explain the recent rapid increase in overweight thatís been seen in the Western world.

They believe that while we might inherit Ďfatí genes from our parents, we also inherit their bad habits such as a poor diet and lack of exercise Ė and itís these lifestyle factors that have a more important part to play in weight gain. This is good news for you as it means with a few lifestyle changes you should be able to shift those pounds with help from Weight Loss Resources.

In the meantime, it sounds as though everyone in your family would benefit from losing weight, so rather than going it alone, why not try and get everyone involved? While you might meet resistance from a few family members at first, once they see everyone else beginning to look slimmer, fitter and healthier, Iím sure theyíll be desperate to join in!

From an article in Forbes magazine:
http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/02/04/hscout523663.html
Genes May Drive Child Obesity
FRIDAY, Feb. 4 (HealthDayNews) -- A mother's love may be unconditional, but her genes can be a burden for some children, research suggests.

By the time they're 6 years old, children of overweight moms are 15 times more likely to be obese than children of lean mothers, says a study by researchers at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and the University of Pennsylvania.

The findings demonstrate the impact of genetics on childhood obesity and suggest that obesity prevention efforts should target such children at risk -- ideally by the time they're 4.

The study appears in the January issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Researchers tracked 70 children from infancy until they were 6 years old. Of those children, 33 had overweight moms and 37 had lean mothers. During their first two years of life, the children showed little difference in weight and body composition.

But that changed by age 4, when greater overall body weight was noted on children whose mothers were overweight. By the time they were 6, these children had both greater body weight and more body fat than the children of lean mothers.

"We found dramatic increases in body fat between the ages of 3 and 6. This suggests that some genes controlling body weight may become active during this period," lead researcher Dr. Robert I. Berkowitz, chairman of child and adolescent psychiatry and executive director of the Behavioral Health Center at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, said in a prepared statement.

"This research has important implications for preventing obesity. It points to an important target group -- children whose mothers are overweight," study co-author Dr. Virginia A. Stallings, director of the Nutrition Center in the division of gastroenterology and nutrition, said in a prepared statement.

"There could be greater benefits to focusing intense prevention efforts toward these children, rather than to the entire pediatric population," Stallings said.


Obesity is generally a result of a combination of factors:

Genetic predisposition
Energy-rich diet
Limited exercise and sedentary lifestyle
Underlying illness (e.g. hypothyroidism)
An eating disorder (such as binge eating disorder)
Stressful mentality (debated)
Insufficient sleeping (debated)



More research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/living/10860755.htm
http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2004/fyi/11/14/cnnpce.fat.chance/
http://namct.com/news/index.php?p=2102&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


simply put: people here can't languidly just blame it on genetics. they CAN however actually DO something about it. if they are motivated enough and have enough drive, i'm sure they can succeed where many others have given up. i know that it's not easy. i've BEEN there. if you need medical help, seek it. if you have the funds to get a nutritionalist, get one. if not, you have an entire internet teeming with information right here at your fingertips. it may not be easy - but it's not anywhere near as impossible a task as most people here have built it up to be. nothing in life is easy.

Granted, no one can blame it solely genetics. As we can see from the list of causes, genetics may not be the only factor. You can certainly say, "Oh, exercise is the key to loose weight." That may be certainly true, but how much effort one has to put in varies from person to person on several factors, including genetics. I am certain you'd agree that a person's genetics would help a person to dramatically increase or decrease their weight and how much they can loose per day or overall. No one has posted here anything about a body's natural reaction to something the body might consider dangerous or unhealthly. Loosing all that weight may cause your brain to question whether if it is right, or healthly, as all living things have an instinct to self-preservation.

I am reminded of what Shikamaru told Chouji in the Anime/Manga series, Naruto: "You are you. And I am me." We are all ourselves, and different as can be.

I don't want to come off sounding like a hypocrite, but yes, I support a cosplayer's right to cosplay anything. I am a bigger fan if someone cosplays according to exactness. Granted, I don't mind overweight cosplayers, but I am not the person who likes seeing an overweight person trying to cosplay something like Mia or Faye Valentine with a highly revealing costume. Case in point: A infamous cosplayer who will remain nameless, but has been quoted to be a "Wookie crossed with Jabba the Hut in a Faye Valentine costume." Well, basically, I don't mind overweight cosplayers so long as they dress tastefully... but then again, that could be said of any cosplay.

I leave my post with some quotes for people to reflect on what has been posted so far.

"Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it." -- attributed to Confucius.

Firestar
02-20-2005, 05:33 AM
I have been mentioning to a few of my friends that cosplay and go to cons that I plan on going to one in the near future and all of them have told me I shouldnt go until I get skinny (xD Im 5'4" and weigh 190 pounds) I was wondering if this is true?
The last thing I want to do is show up and be yelled at for being large I have enough self esteem issues as it is
any feed back would be helpful

well this is just in my opinion so ill be honest with you. first off i think you should go for it but not really wear something revealing of the area you feel uncomfable with. ok heres where the honesty comes in. no one will usually say anything to you but i do remember like if someone walked by who was really fat me and my friends would end up commenting privatly. but thats just me. im sure youd have no problems.

--Ashley <3 :heart: :love:

allyunion
02-20-2005, 05:43 AM
"You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive."

Will people live longer? Perhaps this is true. Being overweight though does not ESSENTIALLY cause heart attacks. There have been cases of overweight people with perfect cholesterol. There have been cases of skinny people having Heart attacks. Does being over weight increase the risk? Well yes in some cases. My doctor recently told me myself I should loose weight because it MIGHT RISK ME LATER ON. Now, what is the cause of my being overweight? Well I cannot exercise that much because I have a lung condition from being born premature. (No my mother never did drugs, or smoked, I just could not stay in) I do not eat that much but this lack of exercise has caused me to be overweight (I assume anyways)

Dang... I had a similar idea about skinny people. I am certain that all of you know that ever one person who's skinny no matter what kind of junk they eat.

Will a person be more popular? People who only associate with others based on their looks are egotistical and shallow. Be it because of weight, skin color, nationality, etc. It has been shown (sadly) that beauty does attract people but are those, the kind of people you want attracted to you? It is the same principle as being rich. Your true friends, and the true human beings are the ones that care about you and want you to be happy regardless of your current situation. The same should apply to looks. If I suddenly became the most attractive man in the world I would hope I would remember who my friends where and turn away those who treated me badly but suddenly treated me well.

"Have no friends not equal to yourself." -- Confucius
"Friendship is like money, easier made than kept." -- Samuel Butler
"Tell me what company thou keepst, and I'll tell thee what thou art" --Miguel de Cervantes
"True happiness consists not in the multitude of friends, but in their worth and choice." - Samuel Johnston

Will a person be more successful? Only to shallow people. I fail to see how unless you desire to be a model, an athlete, or a trophy mate as to how your appearance should make you more successful. A wonderful writer who woo's someone with words of truth and beauty regardless of their appearance wins the hearts of others. (The lesson of Cyrano de Bergerac) An accountant for a big business it won't matter how he or she looks so long as they are saving money and making things more efficient they are not going to be fired if a stupid babe magnet or super model without a brain comes in for the job.

More attractive? Sadly in todayís modern society this is probably indeed true. Having good looks is (to me) a Fringe benefit. A wonderful person is sadly a little bit better if they are beautiful as well. (I speak honestly. I look at a woman first for her personality though if she is cute it is all the better) so I will give you that being thin and attractive IS a bonus.. But it is NOT what a decision should be made on. I would rather spend eons with an overweight woman who was kind and compassionate than a self centered, self-righteous and egotistical woman any day. Can you honestly say different?

Judge not by outer beauty, judge by the content of their character and their inner beauty.

If I may speak frankly I would hope to never be a friend with someone who would choose me on my appearance.

Or race, or gender, or height...

Well evidently not.. If you REALLY where saying these things out of a desire to 'help the human race' Genocide is not one of them. If I may borrow a quote from A Christmas Carol "Who are you to decide who shall live and who shall die?" Not to speak offensively but I pity anyone who would make friends with you then not meet your standards if you killed everyone overweight you met. What makes you select overweight people for this 'ethnic cleansing' of yours? While you are at it why don't we just say all left-handed people, or all color blind people? Is there some reason that Caucasian skinny people are not in this category of yours? I apologize I am getting off track of the discussion.

"No person can decide the fate of another." -- Neji, from Naruto.

It's interesting how you're comments reflect a cartoon character named "Wooldoor Sockbat" from "Drawn Together"... a quote that is annoyingly quoted a lot... that goes something like, "It's because you're fat! And nobody likes fat chicks! WEEEEEEE!!!!"

Eat less. What if one doesnít eat much already? It has also been shown eating less does not help one loose weight a constant fire needs to be kept going and starving yourself does not work.

Interestingly enough, for men's fitness magazines, they tell you to eat more, or eat more frequently. They ask you to turn your day into 5 small-medium size balanced meals, instead of 3, depending on how much you exercise. The idea is to keep your metabolism high.

Exercise more. A good option and one that even 15 minutes a day helps, but it cannot be overlooked that this is just not possible for some people or if so it is very difficult.

I can vouch for difficulty. I have to study 60 hours or so just to pass my classes... being a Computer Science major.

Try diet pills and medicine. There are so many diet plans out there it would be crazy to try them all. These too cost money that is sometimes not available.

Not all them are effective, and not all of them are healthy either... and you don't really know which ones are fake and which ones really work.

In response to Celebrimbor I now speak more abruptly and I hope everyone may forgive me if I am rude. Your belief overweight people should be cleansed from this Earth can be likened to Hitler. I would be sickened if your 'idea' was legal and you where allowed to go around killing any overweight people you met. This world does not need less overweight people; it needs less self-absorbed people. Also do you have some strange belief that there is a time limit to a person getting thin? Do you believe "You should be killed unless you make yourself thin in ____ years?" Because evidently if it where up to you to press a button and obliterate all 'non perfect' people in the world you'd press it now. Well what about those working on it? Or would you reserve them a place cause they are trying to be your ideal?

Interestingly enough, no one has raised the whole issue about someone being too thin... I know some people who complain that they look so thin that people think they are bulimic... and can't put on weight to save their own life.

That is all.... oh sept one last comment to Celebrimbor. How would you feel if some all-powerful authority decided everyone that looked just like you should die or be forbidden from having relationships with anyone? Just cause you where not theyíre ideal?

Judge unto yourself, before ye should pass judgement on others...

Eleryth
02-20-2005, 09:57 AM
My post is not about weight loss or what you should cosplay. It's about how irrational a certain person's posts are being, presenting his opinions. We think they are out of place, and yes, frankly, I believe they are.

However, what we must realize is that not everyone is as nice as most supportive people on these boards. In public, people will comment. People will say things. Perhaps a convention attendee will approach you and tell you "you're too fat to cosplay gunner Yuna" or "you're the fattest Sailor Scout I've ever seen!". Perhaps you'll overhear those comments when people whisper around you. It happens. And the lesson I think we have to learn from such outrageous inflammatory posts is that a con is not always a smiley happy place, even though this board might usually be one for us. There are jerks. And you might hear their comments. But how you respond to them (if at all) is entirely up to you as a person.

I do not condone such behaviour, I am just saying it exists, and that is a fact of life that we all have to deal with. And honestly, it's a lesson that I think should be learned sooner than later. It's an unfortunate lesson, and one I wish we didn't have to learn. But as overweight cosplayers, it's one we do have to deal with, sometimes on a daily basis. If you're not ready for such illspirited comments, they hurt. A lot.

So, even though you've done all you could to make yourself look good in costume and have it suit your body and you're confident, just be aware that there are jerks out there who, chances are, will say something mean. And our best bet, I think, is to learn to ignore them.

Kate-chan
02-20-2005, 10:32 AM
Um, I'm approx. 175 pounds and 5 foot almost 3, and I don't really care actually, because my weight's been like that since fifth grade for some reason and I've never been excluded of something because of my weight.
However, I do have my own guidelines, like don't try to do anything like Felicia from DarkStalkers or something like that.

tsukinohime3
02-20-2005, 11:09 AM
Do not listen to such insulence! XD

My fiance is very much over weight (6'3" and about 280 lbs.) but he does Moonlight Knight for my R Season Sailor Moon!! It doesn't bother me, I don't think it bothers him. But he does have a few tricks up his sleeve that makes him appear smaller in pictures. YAY FOR CONCEALING, SOLID COLORED CAPES!! XD

But cosplay is all for the fun of it. Don't let discriminatory jerks pull ya down! Have fun and do what you want to do! :cheers:

rayn
02-20-2005, 11:16 AM
Then do so. You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive.

Stomach stapling isn't that expensive anymore, because it's cheaper for insurance companies then dealing with heart disease.

Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

You should just shut up. You may not be insulting me with that statement personally as I don't fit the description, but you insult a large part of my friends and family which is much much worse... You are one of those people I would slap on sight for your rudeness. People are entitled to their opinions but you shouldn't hurt others because you feel the need to be a jerk about things. There are other factors besides genetics that cause people to gain weight and it isn't always something that can be controlled. Also while living in America gives you freedom of speech, it also gives people the right to live a happy life doing the things they enjoy regardless of their physical appearance. You have no right to suggest otherwise. To do so is just cruel and inhumane.

Rei-sama
02-20-2005, 11:28 AM
*deep sigh* Ok people...When I first saw this thread I was hoping that it would motivate ALL kinds of people to cosplay because I think that brings flavor to the cosplay world. But instead, because of a few people, it has become a war of words. Let's all think about what we post people. This is why I stay out of the forums as much as I can.

I have already expressed my opinion on this topic at the beginning : no matter what you look like confidence is the key to cosplay, if you love your costume and yourself in it then you will enjoy yourself and have fun! I mean isn't that what cosplay is all about?

scandia
02-20-2005, 11:39 AM
Though I am not overweight, and barely scratched the minimum BMI to be considered overweight at my heaviest, I need to put in my 2 cents.

I have been accused of being underweight. I have been called a cow. I eat healthy and like to exercise. I mainly do them to stay healthy so that I can do the things I enjoy doing- including working and cosplaying among others. I do enjoy looking good in my costumes- but that involves more than just having a weight proportionate to your height and build. It also involves posture, taking care of your skin/hair/teeth, and confidence.

Though it is a good idea to modify costumes to better fit your body type (regardless of what kind of figure you have), your weight should not deter you from cosplaying whoever you wish to do. While eating healthy and exercising has incredible benefits, fitting society's image of beauty should not be your top concern. I know I will never be the beauty standard in the USA- regardless of how many universal characteristics of beauty I possess or how good clothes look on me or how healthy and in great shape I am. I think everyone looking different is great- what may be attractive to me may not be what is attractive to your neighbor nor to society's beauty standard.

Chibi Plush Toy
02-20-2005, 11:54 AM
Amen to this topic. I read through all the pros *listing about overweight successful people whom I admire for their vigilance* and cons *people dissing overweight people with illogical statements* and I am proud to be what I am now ^__^

So in my part, I have to say that overweight cosplayers SHOULD have the freedom to cosplay AND live in this world.

MargueriteChain
02-20-2005, 12:14 PM
So to shift topics slightly: how do you feel about using a particular costume as a means of motivation? Iím a firm believer that you shouldnít do anything just for cosplay, but it can be a good means of motivation. I recently got this idea to cosplay as Leeloo from The Fifth Element, since I have a couple of friends who are interested in starting a Fifth Element group for ComicCon. Her costume is VERY skimpy- just some well-placed bandages. Iíll never as skinny as Milla Jovovich in a million years, but I think if I loose a bit of weight, tone my muscles and flatten my stomach some, modify the costume a bit and wear body tights, I could maybe pull it off. I have 5 months- it could happen. But I think if I dangle the "impossible" in front of me, I'll be more motivated to work harder.

Ooh, good luck! That's such a fun movie, and I have seen that costume made to work on a "real" body before.

I can't see why using a particular costume to motivate weight loss/body toning would be a bad idea. I'm actually doing that with a couple of costumes I'm hoping to wear in 2006. 2006 because I know there's no way I can lose enough weight by this year's convention season... sewing bridesmaid dresses for a friend's wedding takes too much time for me to exercise right now! As long as you're doing it also because you want to, not just for the one costume, dangling a carrot in front of your nose can't hurt.

ladysubaru25
02-20-2005, 02:43 PM
WOW. What a politically and emotionally charged thread. I started reading this last night in hopes of finding a topic that helped plus-sized cosplayers get tips for how to modify designs for their body types. Instead, I got sucked in to reading 2 hours worth of posts, many of which brought up some excellent points, and some of which were utterly ridiculous and illogical. While I doubt that many of the the original "authors" are even following this thread anymore (and our friend, Celebrimbor, who has stated three pages back, that he would never post here again... ^^;) I figured it was time to add my 2 cents.

First off, I have to say that I agree with points that have been brought up on both sides of the arguement. Yes, looks are a huge part of cosplay, and due to our societal beliefs, one who is plus-sized should be prepared for some disparaging comments from those people who are too closed-minded to look past such a superficial trait as body size. This is regardless of what you are wearing, be it robes or a bikini. But if one has a tough skin, you also shouldn't let the ingnorance of others affect what you choose to do for your own hobbies.

I do not think that body size should dictate WHETHER or not you cosplay, but you can use it as a gauge to measure WHAT you cosplay, and HOW you cosplay that character (making modifications to designs to accomodate your figure etc.) In the end, there will always be some asshat who has an off color remark to make to you. You have to let it slide off your back. Do you want to spend your entire life being dictated by the desires of others?

Hikaruchan, I have seen you in your costumes, and you look AMAZING! Especially in your Fushigi Yugi costume from Otakon '04. WOW. Your constructions skills are wonderful. And Bobbi, I've seen you in your Puchiko costume at Otakon 04 as well, and it was GREAT. Both of you are very skilled seamstresses, and I hope you contiune to cosplay and build your skills, and don't something as silly as a few extra pounds hold you back. You are beautiful and wear your costumes well.

In reference to Kokuu's post about her 5th Element costume, while I am not one who will keep myself from cosplaying because of a little extra weight, I am certainly in support of using costumes as motivation (I actually started a thread about this last year. It was called "The Great Cosplay Diet/Workout" and I was going to post a link to it here, but the search feature on the site is not working.) Sometimes we need a bit of a kick in the butt to get us motivated, like Miyu originally stated. That kick in the butt for me was a costume. And I am almost ready to wear it now since I actually got myself to the gym! Yay for cosplay. It is not even a partucularly revealing costume (I am 100% clothed from head to toe) but I wanted to better emulate the character's build. This is the first time I have chosen to cosplay a character that I REALLY LIKED, and I want it to be really believable. I can even do the character's voice. LOL!!

Now, off to our dear comrade in arms Celebrimbor. So, you're desiring an ethnic cleansing for all "fat people." HEIL! CELEBRIMBOR! :sulk: It's that sime sort of thinking that lead to the Holocaust. And your reasoning behind it is logically flawed. So, we keep all of the evil, fat people from breeding. (ugh. I hate that term...) That does not necessarily mean that all thin people will give birth to a master race of think people. There are certain ways in which weight is limited by genetics, but if you understood anything about biology, you would realize that there is such a thing as a "recessive trait", one that is not expressed in the parents, but can be present in their genetic makeup. This can then be passed to their offspring unknowingly. If both mom and dad carry "THE FAT GENE" (lol...) as a recessive trait, than OMG, two thin people could have a child genetically pre-disposed to having weight problems. So genocide is not the answer. Really. Please be aware that this train of though is offending a LOT of people here. So I am going to drop it now, and would hope that you would follow suit.

Back to Miyu, who brought up a lot of really GOOD points, and with whom I agree *almost* 100% Okay, so you state that losing weight is all about motiviation to do so. And I agree. It is not easy- we need to work at it. You are also in the modelling profession, and so it is natural that you would be motivated to maintain a desirable body size, since your paycheck depends on it. That is a hell of a motivation, so certainly you would put effort into this aspect of your life. Anyone who is truly as driven CAN make SOME sort of progress, regardless of how slow that progress it. There ARE however, some limitations on how far one can go with losing weight or changing their body structure. And these ARE determined by genetics. One cannot use genes as the number one excuse for being heavy, but I do not think that you have given enough credit to the role genetics plays in one's body shape.

Miyu, take for example, youself and me. I can look at your frame, and figure out that you are genetically able to maintain an almost impossible level of perfection in your weight/figure through motivated diet and exercise due, partiually to the fact that genes are "on your side". I, on the other hand, would not be able to attain your measurements unless I had a serious problem. I've been down that road before. I have no desire to travel it again.

I am 5' 10" and about 150. With 20% bodyfat. (which can be improved, I know. My trainer tells me it is a bit high.) I am around a size 12 -14 in vintage clothes (I use my vintage size, since modern clothing is disgustingly vanity-sized and I shop in thrift shops a lot...) I have football-player shoulders and bones that are nearly twice the size of yours, with thick wrists and ankles. I am NOT a tiny or aesthetically-pleasing girl. And regardless of my motivation, my body is simply pre-dispositioned to look different that yours, or someone elses for that matter. I am not lazy or unmotivated because I cannot maintain my weight at 102 pounds. I know. If you woke up in my body, you'd probably throw yourself out a window (not like I blame you. You'd never get modeling work if you looked like me LOL!) but that is because we are DESTINED TO LOOK DIFFERENT. Yes, anyone can lose weight if they want, but there are limits to how much for them to still be healthy. I noticed that your avatar by-line is "More Perfect than You." That is not true. You are perfect for YOU and I just happen to be perfect for ME. Sorry...

Xiola, I can also see the flip side of things here. Being too thin can also cause one much pain. I was friends with a girl in college who was about 5'8" and barely 100 pounds. She had no evidence of eating problems. She was just NATURED thin. You can see pictures of her from a young age, and she was ALWAYS built that way. So was her family, tall and skinny. There was no doubt that she simply had a high metabolism and small frame. She would get incredibly upset when people tried to tell her she had an eating disorder. It's tough for us who have been on the other side fo the fence (too heavy) too imagine that it's also a problem for those who are genetically natured to be thin. But it's real. I'd seen my friend upset too many times not to realize that.

So in conclusion of the rant, I think I've come out with three main points:

1. Cosplay if you want, but at your own risk. Some people are just asses, and you'll have to deal with that if you are putting yourself on display in cosplay.

2. Genetics plays a larger role that we may think. It's not the #1 reason for being heavy, but it's important.

3. Speaking of a genocide of all heavy people is radical- and stupid.


~~ladysubaru, OUT. :skidude2:
(and off to the gym...)

Kaijugal
02-20-2005, 04:52 PM
I do however think we should have a national eugenics program in the USA, to weed out such undesirables.

I only see one undesireable in this thread.

Apsara
02-20-2005, 07:20 PM
I started reading this last night in hopes of finding a topic that helped plus-sized cosplayers get tips for how to modify designs for their body types. Instead, I got sucked in to reading 2 hours worth of posts...

*laughing* Same here. Although I'm a US women's size 0-2, I do have a large chest and I would have liked to get tips on how to tailor my costumes to make them look less like surplus potato sacks.

Apsara

Igniz
02-20-2005, 08:11 PM
(Shrug)

I hardly care enough to bother posting statistics, or even facts. I don't care enough about the topic. I just hate fat people in the same way fanatic conservative christians hate gays and women who get abortions.

That's all I have to say for this month. Yes mods, I'll stop posting here.


What ? This post makes me sick !!
And your others messages too.

livvylove
02-20-2005, 08:16 PM
This thread is an APPROPRIATE thread for me to express my opinion on this topic. I don't think overweight people should cosplay.


You think with that discusting attitude he would actually be FIT but he is a few twinkies away from being the type of person he hates(me thinks he is more of a self hater).

I remember on another message board there was a thread about overweight cosplayers and it posted 2 pictures of Rabi en Rose cosplayers. One was an overweight cosplayer with a well made costume that fit her body perfectly and she had a beautiful smile. The second was a skinny cosplayer with a costume that looked like it was about to fall apart and in the picture she was slouching. Just because a person is thinner doesn't make their cosplay better than someone who is overweight.

But from what I read in this thread I am glad it didn't turn into an Anti Skinny person thread. :dance:

ladysubaru25
02-20-2005, 08:46 PM
...it posted 2 pictures of Rabi en Rose cosplayers. One was an overweight cosplayer with a well made costume that fit her body perfectly and she had a beautiful smile. The second was a skinny cosplayer with a costume that looked like it was about to fall apart and in the picture she was slouching. Just because a person is thinner doesn't make their cosplay better than someone who is overweight.

Wow-- you're not kidding, eh? That's sad. Isn't cosplay also about the construction of the costume. Some people are ingnorant.

IMO, Rabi~en~Rose would be a costume that would actually look *better* on a person who has a larger frame. Same with a lot of Di Gi Charat characters. Some of the best Dejikos I've seen have been what some would refer to as "plus sized" cosplayers. IMO, the costumes just look better when they are "filled out".


*laughing* Same here. Although I'm a US women's size 0-2, I do have a large chest and I would have liked to get tips on how to tailor my costumes to make them look less like surplus potato sacks.

Ahh, yes. My friend has many times bemoaned that fact that she is of a small build with large breasts. She always complains that clothing likes to hang *off* of her breasts, and make everything else look larger. I can't even offer you any suggestions for tailoring, because I'm the opposite. A big girl with an absolutely flat chest. LMAO! :waaaah:

UchihaGirl
02-20-2005, 09:02 PM
I think overweight cosplayers should be allowed to do whatever they want, seeing as how I am slightly pudgy myself with about 225 lbs of weight behind me. But I also think they should limit themselves to characters that fit their body type, or at least, with costumes that help enhance/dehance the problem areas.

Large belly? Choose a character that has a costume is more traditional or covers you belly with some kind of wrap or bow. (I.E.: Kimonos or Hakamas work well)

Large bum? Choose a character that has a costume that is tighter under the breasts then flows outward. (I.E.: Poofy skirts, school girl skirts, EGL skirts, etc)

I dunno...maybe I just find this to be more comfortable for me since I know those are some of my problem areas.

(Edit: The good thing about quotes is that you can see mistakes you made originally)

Anna
02-20-2005, 09:14 PM
I think overweight cosplayers should be allowed to do whatever they want, seeing as how I am slightly pudgy myself with about 225 lbs of weight behind me. But I also limit themselves to characters that fit their body type, or at least, with costumes that help enhance/dehance the problem areas.

Large belly? Choose a character that has a costume is more traditional or covers you belly with some kind of wrap or bow. (I.E.: Kimonos or Hakamas work well)

Large bum? Choose a character that has a costume that is tighter under the breasts then flows outward. (I.E.: Poofy skirts, school girl skirts, EGL skirts, etc)

I dunno...maybe I just find this to be more comfortable for me since I know those are some of my problem areas.
Hehe, I'm personally starting to aim for poofy skirt and shorts things. You also have to keep in mind what kind of lines the costume has, and how it fits you. Not too lose not to tight, and in the right places.

Tia
02-20-2005, 09:21 PM
I lean towards poofy skirts as well. If the dress isn't too poofy to begin with, but it's long, you can always fix it so it flatters you more. I did this with my Juri dress. Instead of it just going straight down from the hips which is what you'd think it'd be, it flares out just a tiny bit towards the bottom. Plus I used boning to make the hem bounce out more, so most peoples' attention is either drawn to the ruffles at the top of the costume or the hem at the bottom. I think gothic lolita is good for larger cosplayers, too, not only because of how it flatters large hips and butts, but because you can tailor it to look exactly how you want it on you. Or if you want to do EGA, just make the petticoat so it has more layers of thickness at the bottom and the least at the top by your hips. There are many ways to make a costume fit any person's body, whether it be large or small. I'm sure some smaller cosplayers have to deal with problems with costumes like Lulu or Forte when there are a lot of physical things about the costume that hinge on being larger in certain areas.

Apsara
02-20-2005, 09:52 PM
Ahh, yes. My friend has many times bemoaned that fact that she is of a small build with large breasts. She always complains that clothing likes to hang *off* of her breasts, and make everything else look larger. I can't even offer you any suggestions for tailoring, because I'm the opposite. A big girl with an absolutely flat chest. LMAO! :waaaah:

Exactly! Anime physics...>.< Anyone who says having a big chest is good for cosplay obviously was never born with one...or who wants to do a decent cosplay...or just want to cosplay, period.

Forget the shape of anime women, it's the shape of those friggin clothes that's frustrating. How in the world do you get perky breasts when its covered by fabrics that looks thinner than paint?

Apsara
*who's severely annoyed with my costume...and I'm not even the seamstress!*

starlet_flower
02-20-2005, 10:09 PM
Who cares if someone's overweight? it's just cosplay, fer cryin' out loud! we dress up to show off our costumes, not our body type! i'm a bit on the plump side myself, but i don't let that stop me. what it all boils down to is self-confidence and your comfort level in a costume.

Angel Tifa
02-20-2005, 10:33 PM
Um, I'm approx. 175 pounds and 5 foot almost 3, and I don't really care actually, because my weight's been like that since fifth grade for some reason and I've never been excluded of something because of my weight.
However, I do have my own guidelines, like don't try to do anything like Felicia from DarkStalkers or something like that.


I used to be around that weight and height, but just alittle less and vaguely taller(5 foot 3 and a half?). But like you said, I don't let my weight hold me back from being the character I want to be. I want to do Felicia myself someday and Faye Valentine. Though I may be fat around my waist, I'm do not let that stop me just like everyone else said about when they cosplay. I love the style of confidence you have. Besides if anyone like our 'Hitler' like Celebrimbor did try to hurt me over it, I at least have my pepper spray protection lol. Never said it will happen, but if that did, I'm never holding myself back out of self defense.

Anyone with any type of physical appearance does have the right to live and cosplay in this world. Celebrimbor, this isn't like the 19th or earlier century where they were "allowed" to do that tourment. However, sadley there are radical people like the Ku Klux Klan like that. Are you one of them? Like I said, I hope you've never ever ever violated other cosplayers for a differ in appearance.

HK-Aya
02-20-2005, 11:03 PM
i think it depends if ur cosplaying for fun.. or cosplaying accurately, if it's the latter, dun cosplay if ur fat/skinny compared to the char, if it's the first condition, cosplay all you want ^_^.

tsukinohime3
02-20-2005, 11:24 PM
*laughing* Same here. Although I'm a US women's size 0-2, I do have a large chest and I would have liked to get tips on how to tailor my costumes to make them look less like surplus potato sacks.

Apsara

O.O That's what I call a blessing for a cosplayer! XD All the girls have tiny waists, and then big honkin' chests that seem almost too painful to be natural! >_< WAY TO GO! XD

But if you really want to neutralize your "excess baggage" a little, you can go to the Crossplay thread and find some good tips about chest binding. That way you can get them under control a bit, but still have a decent sized chest to still look feminine.

Ayvina
02-20-2005, 11:34 PM
Honestly, there are very few people in the world that can have the same figure as the majority of characters people currently cosplay, so I don't see how someone can complain about the size of someone compared to the actual character. Cosplay for me is more than just fun, it's a way to enjoy all aspects of myself. To see how much I can act like one character or another that have completely opposite personalities. It's also to be accurate in the construction of the costume.

I think, as long as you feel comfortable in a costume you have, enjoy cosplaying it at any convention. I mean, I have a friend who is 300+ lbs. and she still cosplays whomever she wishes to. Now her boyfriend may suggest a costume or two that she wouldn't do (for example Aika from Skies of Arcadia) but that choice should be left up to her. NO ONE and I mean Absolutely no one, has the right to tell someone they can not cosplay, or they should not cosplay just because of their size. As long as they follow the rules of the convention or gathering they are cosplaying at, and following their own standards, they should do as they please.

Anyone who puts down and insults someone for such a prejudiced reason should reconsider whether cosplay is really for them. As much as Cosplay is to have fun or to have accurate costumes or whatever reason someone has to cosplay, NO cosplayer should go down to the level of prejudice and judgement. Just as one would not want to be misjudged by someone, that same one should not misjudge another.

And I am done heh ^^; Gomen for such a long rant from me.

Apsara
02-21-2005, 02:39 AM
"*laughing* Same here. Although I'm a US women's size 0-2, I do have a large chest and I would have liked to get tips on how to tailor my costumes to make them look less like surplus potato sacks.
Apsara"

O.O That's what I call a blessing for a cosplayer!

Trust me, it's not all it's cracked up to be. All of my clothes are either made specifically for me or if I really, really, really like a design and don't want to be thrown in jail for copyright infringement, I have to buy the top in two sizes. The US "medium-large" one for the bust panels, the "extra-small" I rip up for the back, arms and side panels. Then I sew them together so that my chest won't be squashed in the smallest or I'd become lost in the bigger size into one shirt. An incredible waste of money. XD

This is the real reason why I started sewing. Cosplay is just the excuse.


But if you really want to neutralize your "excess baggage" a little, you can go to the Crossplay thread and find some good tips...

Thank you for your help. Yeah, I'm looking through the crossplay section right now. *grinning* Hm...duct tape, band aid and Nair hair removal products. *winces* The things we do...

Apsara

cgmangotiger
02-21-2005, 04:47 AM
Just wanted to comment on something; I'm overweight myself, wish I was thinner, and I've always had bad self-esteem because of how our society treats bigger gals, and have felt that way for 10 years. I've done some costumes I've regretted doing because of how I looked, and because of my esteem , I tend to do costumes covering more. I'm a size 18 and wish I was a 10, and have been that way since 9th grade, (7 years,) so i've neither lost nor gained, but alas, no body is perfect.

And no cosplayer is going to be identical to the character they're playing... It should depend on how well the costume is made and FUN! But seeing as how I'm so afraid of being judged by my weight, it's hard to think like that, still I cosplay, but because of a bad costume choice, I choose more wisely.

MissSCeleste
02-21-2005, 12:14 PM
*returns to see topic has remained very active these last few days away from cpu*

*backreads while chomping on deliciously fatty Symphony chocolate bar and sipping a tasty high carb/high calorie Mountain Dew*

mmmmm... calories....

*stops abruptly at Celebrimors post and almost spits dew out of nose from laughing*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! !!! HAAAAAA!!

XD Oh... my... goody goodness.. That is a good one... oh my sides.. oh good.. yes.. very good.. What are you doing a sociology report on reactionary emotions or something? I mean.. you can't possibly be serious about people stapling there stomachs right? I mean.. eh eh he he... oh goodness.. you have no idea..

*supresses another good hard belly laugh*

How much I'm laughing AT you and not with you man. Why don't you just start speaking in L33T speak while your at it!? If your gonna be over the top radically stupid you might as well do better then that! Alright.. Wait wait wait.. guess who I'm impersonating now...

"Duh huh huh.. Hey guys.. I know my constitutional rights and you have the right to MY opinion!" *slobber slobber drool* What are you aspiring to be a talkl radio DJ or something? Oh my word.. humour is so great when its at someone elses expense.. I must say.. ahh ho ho ho.. for example Mr. Beefcake sir...

If your really all about going under the knife, I know a real good plastic surgeon.. (and a great hair stylist for whoever took that Waynes World suck cut to your head) ho ho ho... he he he... freind of my step moms in the business.. I mean they could do a bit of work on that slack jawed face of yours and fix that little problem you have there with you practically having no neck. How much are you willing to shell out? I'm pretty sure I could get you in less then a thousand.. now I know you could be buying a new hentai DVD sets with that money but of course it will be worth it!!!

Afterall you'll be happier, healthier, more success-ha ha ha ha.. Yeah.. Anyway..


I noticed some people asking advice about cosplay for there body types. These things I thought were pretty basic and obvious, knowing yourself very well since you've lived with your body the longest you should focus on the features your most proud of. Fashion is all about being the Peacock for a day instead of the Peahen... but from what I've noticed working with all body ranges for costuming heres a very generalized list.

It's all about thiis. No matter what figuire you are it's the curves, or the face and legs, that draws the most attention to the female body. Thin girls have the advantage of the wonderfully framed face when it's thin (and cross player guys with soft facial features) and the long lanky legs that look GREAT in heels, and fuller framed girls have the advantage (usually... but in some cases not so..this is where genes DO kick in ) the chest and the hips. If you find you do not have much of a chest but a large stomach this is where things can get a little more complicaetd but are still workable. If you are a larger girl and you have a healthy sized chest SHOW IT OFF!! Where costumes that show off the neck, shoulders and chest becuase that is your truely gorgeous womanly area. I've noticed in this time period, there is an unusual shame on girls who show off there chest, and this was a very good point brought up earlier by Tia that I'm still scratching my head at.

I have a lot of costumes that show off my chest and guys do not go "uhm slutty" they go "wow. yay. thank you" with there eyes, and so what if they are looking at your chest instead of your eyes? For some reason in this century it's all good if there gazing at and admiring a thinner girls yams, or stomach.. omg.. I cannot even begin to state how bizarre it is that jeans that practically show your crotch aer in fashion right now... if I were a guy I wouldn't find it very attractive.. half the fun of clothes is that they make the body mysterious, makes you wanna find out whats going on underneath there, and those kind of jeans leave very little to the imagination really... anyway back on topic here... if you have a chest use it to your advantage!!! Trust me, if you want your body to be the envy of others THAT is the way to get it. For some reason when people see the fullness there they look away from other areas that aren't "ok" to be that large in this dasy and age because one of the features that is suupposed to be "ok" these days, is so prominantly fullfilling it's duty. XD

Hips now this ones tricky. If you have big hips you wanna wear something that shows off you have that curve, as someone mentioned before Sir Mixalot will help you to understand why it is such a desirable part of the body, but without drawing attention to the legs underneath. What you want to attempt to do with any costume is create this bell like curve. Look at the dresses they did back in the western days to see what it is about that image that is really desirable.

Now for those of you without chest. That leaves hips or lips. If your gonna for lips instead of hips, matching nails and earrings are essential. Your going to need to move those fingers to your lips or the hair near your ears to gently brush it back constantlyto draw attention. Draw attention to the beauty of your being. I haven't quite figuierd it out yet but after carefully analyzing Malice Mizer videos I've noticed that alot of what makes them drop dead gorgeous is there focus on lips, eyes, nails, haristlye, ears, to make them fabulously desirable, even though they have no curves they make for drop dead gorgeous androgonyous angels. It is all about the confidence you exude THROUGH these features. You can be confident and still undesirable, but when you are confident WITH certain parts of your body as an extension, thats when you are unexplainably MORE desirable.

I can't really give more detailed advice without going on and on and on, and this is the second time my post has gone on way to long as it is. If anyone wants to, PM me, and I'll go over each and every one of your costumes in your gallery or any just "photos of you" on where I think you should put some focus on. Every person I've met has a part of them that is what makes them shine with beauty, I'd be glad to point out what your desirable traits are. I may not be the foremost authority on it, but just offering up for the sake of another persons opinion. =)


Aspara,

I'm a 40D Myself, so I know about the pretty big chest problem you might be having but not of the same spectrum because your much thinner then me, so any of this advice you'll have to adjust to your frame. What I've found works really well for us chesty girls trying to keep those anime gravity defying chests without them sagging and such with whatever costume your trying to do is really analyze the costume your about to do. Crossplaying will be the most difficult, you'll pretty much have to tape yourself down which hurts quite a bit and you still won't get it all covered up unless you go for a bigger guy like Mario, like put a pillow under your overalls kind of thing to even the chest with stomach underneath a piece of cloth, but I'm gusesing your giong more for girls.

Corsettes work wonders. A stop to Victorias Secret I think is in order. Corsettes seem to be back in fashion for womens undergarments, I remember about a year ago you could only get them at Renn. Fairs and online, and now you can just hit the mall. I Wouldn't suggest getting any kind of corsettes at Hot Topic, although they can look lovely, they are generally only for show, VS will actually push the chest up, but you need to get the kind with straps for a chest as large as yours.. if you are doing a sleeveless cosplay, no worries, they have clear straps and alternatives to take them off, but it'd be wise to keep them on for full support. Once you have found a corsette undergarment that totally lifts you up and keeps you supported you want to fit your costume you are designing to mold to you in the corsette. So take your measurements AFTER you've found the perfect corsette.

Next you... well.. well what cosplays are you trying to get done? Each cosplay is a diffrent story for how to make it show off your frame really good, but as an overall if you have large chest and small waist you wanna get stuff where the material doesn't hang off the chest and go all the way down. With a figuire like yours you would prob. be best showing of your shoulders, your chest (obviously), your neck line, and maybe even your stomach/midrift area.

telephone_ninja
02-21-2005, 12:58 PM
I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.


Wow. You're a dumbass.

telephone_ninja
02-21-2005, 01:00 PM
*returns to see topic has remained very active these last few days away from cpu*

*backreads while chomping on deliciously fatty Symphony chocolate bar and sipping a tasty high carb/high calorie Mountain Dew*

mmmmm... calories....

*stops abruptly at Celebrimors post and almost spits dew out of nose from laughing*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! !!! HAAAAAA!!

.....


You, however, are absolutely fabulous.

MissSCeleste
02-21-2005, 01:29 PM
Thank you Dear. Glad you think so! :thumbsup:

Angel Tifa
02-21-2005, 01:42 PM
*returns to see topic has remained very active these last few days away from cpu*

*backreads while chomping on deliciously fatty Symphony chocolate bar and sipping a tasty high carb/high calorie Mountain Dew*

mmmmm... calories....

*stops abruptly at Celebrimors post and almost spits dew out of nose from laughing*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! !!! HAAAAAA!!

XD Oh... my... goody goodness.. That is a good one... oh my sides.. oh good.. yes.. very good.. What are you doing a sociology report on reactionary emotions or something? I mean.. you can't possibly be serious about people stapling there stomachs right? I mean.. eh eh he he... oh goodness.. you have no idea..

*supresses another good hard belly laugh*

How much I'm laughing AT you and not with you man. Why don't you just start speaking in L33T speak while your at it!? If your gonna be over the top radically stupid you might as well do better then that! Alright.. Wait wait wait.. guess who I'm impersonating now...

"Duh huh huh.. Hey guys.. I know my constitutional rights and you have the right to MY opinion!" *slobber slobber drool* What are you aspiring to be a talkl radio DJ or something? Oh my word.. humour is so great when its at someone elses expense.. I must say.. ahh ho ho ho.. for example Mr. Beefcake sir...

If your really all about going under the knife, I know a real good plastic surgeon.. (and a great hair stylist for whoever took that Waynes World suck cut to your head) ho ho ho... he he he... freind of my step moms in the business.. I mean they could do a bit of work on that slack jawed face of yours and fix that little problem you have there with you practically having no neck. How much are you willing to shell out? I'm pretty sure I could get you in less then a thousand.. now I know you could be buying a new hentai DVD sets with that money but of course it will be worth it!!!

Afterall you'll be happier, healthier, more success-ha ha ha ha..


LMAO! ROFL! Cool harsh humor! Harsh...yes, but serves Celebrimbor right. It's like the old saying, "What goes around, comes around!", anyway, I don't want to turn my replies into flaming Celebrimbor( I didn't intentionally, but for those of you saw it as flaming. Take it as you will).

Anyway, yes corssetts work very well if you want to wear a tight dress. I'm a 38D or DD myself, but at least for some characters I want to be(like Tifa), it's not a problem at all. Yes, all those work well.

Bobbi
02-21-2005, 01:58 PM
If your really all about going under the knife, I know a real good plastic surgeon.. (and a great hair stylist for whoever took that Waynes World suck cut to your head) ho ho ho... he he he... freind of my step moms in the business..

Omg. I can't believe you just went there. *snort* I won't comment any further on that one. =P

You also brought up a lot of valuble suggestions. I'm big chested, but I also pretty much go straight down, with only a few inches difference around the ribs, waist and hips. I've always been that way, even when I was a skinnier 14 year old. Though now I'm wider x_x. I've found that corsets help give you a lot more shape in the waist. Plus they are very sexy too. =P

Tia
02-21-2005, 04:25 PM
Now her boyfriend may suggest a costume or two that she wouldn't do (for example Aika from Skies of Arcadia) but that choice should be left up to her.

My boyfriend is still trying to get me to cosplay warrior Paine.... Yeah, not so much. Actually, I've run into this with a large amount of other people. Like six people were trying to talk me into regular Lulu at Usocon. Geez, don't people understand how games and the laws of physics don't work in real life?

I do plan on doing one difficult to fit realistically costume this year, that everyone and their mother seems to be afraid to cosplay. That's Forte Stollen from Galaxy Angel, and she also has a gravity-defying chest. I'm probably going to be spending about half as much time just working on undergarments so the costume works on me than the entire costume itself (would be the same amount except for that darn jacket she has).

About another thing MissSCeleste was saying, though, I used to get flack even when I was just a little bit overweight and showed off my chest. It was always kind of funny to hear people arguing about my looks from across the room. I think it's a sexuality issue, because breasts are a symbol of female sexuality, and we are supposed to cover them up and still make the appearance of a Victorian woman, to some people still. So yeah, like you said, I think it's about a half-and-half reaction. Some of the people will really appreciate it, and some will just call you an outright slut. But hey, I don't really see anything wrong with showing off one of your best features.

I just wanted to say one thing about this thread, though. It's making me a bit sad that it's just devolved into name-calling. I think we should just ignore Celbrimbor; that's what I've been doing as much as possible. Besides, he said he wasn't going to post in this thread again, and, whether I necessarily believe that or not, it's wrong to attack someone verbally when they can't stand up for themselves and sling insults back.

MissSCeleste
02-21-2005, 04:52 PM
To quote someone in this thread that put himself in a debate checkmate.

I'M JUST EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!

Aww.. but for real... Tia.. I think your missing the point.. I wasn't name calling for the sake of name calling.. I was turning the crystal in a slightly different direction so Cel could get a chance to see the world at a different perspective..

Everyone reading this thread in general can see my point..and I'm almost certain ti's what ALOT of people wanted to say to him, but reserved themselves for the sake of peace like yourself... but just like you said he said he wouldn't be back to this thread.. so if he's not reading it it wont hurt his feelings right? ahhh.. but we all know he is reading this... Aren't you Cel? *wink* To be fair Cel has beautiful eyes.. but he's the kind of person that isn't going to "get it" unless he's forced into somebody elses shoes. Even then it may take him a few real life experiences, before he understands that he is currently being guided on sociatal puppet strings .

For anyone who read my much earlier posts, it's fairly obvious I actually don't look at anyone that way, or judge ANYONE on physical appearance.. but in a world of fashion, it's easy to point out flaws in a person that aren't really there. I simply wrote that response to him to deflate his way over the top ego and to hopefully have him understand how ridiculous his past post look to everyone else.

I'm all about free speech, but really... a word of advice Cel and anyone else who just wants to live a happy peaceful life... think before you speak.. other people are listening, and remember that as long as you live in a world where you are someone entitled to your opinion, that means that everyone around you is entitled to that as well. For every action there is a reaction, for every yin there is a yang.

Tia
02-21-2005, 04:58 PM
I didn't mean you. I know you were just trying to be light about the situation. It reminded me about the other posts that I had been avoiding that were doing similar things, in a serious manner. I'm just saying it's like the last three pages are mostly people doing that. I just don't think we should stoop to his level.

Celebrimbor
02-21-2005, 05:08 PM
Oh no, it's slightly more complex and yet infinitely more childish then that. I hate fat cosplayers because the one and only relationship I have had was with a fat girl who used me emotionally and drove me to nearly commit suicide. So now I hate everyone who reminds me of her.

Gina Sadiren
02-21-2005, 05:15 PM
Oh no, it's slightly more complex and yet infinitely more childish then that. I hate fat cosplayers because the one and only relationship I have had was with a fat girl who used me emotionally and drove me to nearly commit suicide. So now I hate everyone who reminds me of her.


I'm sorry.... but because one person did that to you doesn't mean others are like that. I'm sorry to hear that she did that to you, it was wrong of her... but you shouldn't judge others because of it before you even get to know them. There are alot of nice people out there. Because you were hurt does that mean that you should go around and hurt other people just because of their size?

Anna
02-21-2005, 05:15 PM
Oh no, it's slightly more complex and yet infinitely more childish then that. I hate fat cosplayers because the one and only relationship I have had was with a fat girl who used me emotionally and drove me to nearly commit suicide. So now I hate everyone who reminds me of her.
*rolls her eyes* So you hate them all just because one made you upset? Wow that's really pathetic, I'm sorry but it is.

Celebrimbor
02-21-2005, 05:33 PM
I know it is.

I know all to well.

MemoriesofYuna
02-21-2005, 05:39 PM
Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

ive poped in here in the past few days and all that i must say is:
oh my god... JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID SO FAR ON THIS THREAD HAS MADE ME WANT TO THROW UP IN DISGUST OF HOW PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THINK THESE DAYS.

Not just that but that entire statement is not only piglike, insensative, repulsive and all arround disgusting but if the entire world thought the same way you did on that issue then you do understand that 1/4 of the POPULATION in this country would be dead?

Oh no, it's slightly more complex and yet infinitely more childish then that. I hate fat cosplayers because the one and only relationship I have had was with a fat girl who used me emotionally and drove me to nearly commit suicide. So now I hate everyone who reminds me of her.

this is yet ANOTHER WONDERFUL example of how RANDOMLY JUDGEMENTAL todays society is. Hating everyone for that is disgusting. i agree with everyone else that's pathetic. One day if you ever have children what if they are obease? Judge people for who they are not what they look like. I have no respect for people who think like that. -Aseret Yuna

Igniz
02-21-2005, 05:43 PM
Oh no, it's slightly more complex and yet infinitely more childish then that. I hate fat cosplayers because the one and only relationship I have had was with a fat girl who used me emotionally and drove me to nearly commit suicide. So now I hate everyone who reminds me of her.


Ouch, that happenened at me to , I had a fat boyfriend (it's was the first) , he slaps me and hit me during a convention and get harceled (by forum and by phone but I have never answered before).
But that's means nothing, I've got overweights friends (male and female) and they are adorable.

Please try to stop hurting these people.

Anna
02-21-2005, 05:44 PM
I was sexually assulted by some high school guys who I trusted when I was 6. Do you see me saying that all tall skinny people should be exteminated? No. Because I hate THEM. Not what they look like.

CreativeGuy
02-21-2005, 05:50 PM
A lot of people think people should be able to dress however they want but well, thats not how it is and I don't think it should be that way either. Some people just don't look right in skimpy clothing. It's not that it's intended to be insulting, its just the truth. People should wear costumes/clothing that goes with their figure, height, weight, whatever. I don't hate people that are overweight. I'm not posting this to insult anyone. A perfect example though of someone wearing something mega inappropriate for their size is this...

I went to Wal-Mart one day and this 400lb girl was standing outside the door wearing a cut off t-shirt that showed her stomach and short shorts. Do I hate the girl? No. Do I hate people that are overweight? No. Do I think it was pretty nasty seeing her dressed like that? Yes I did. Thats not a comment intended to insult anyone. It's the truth. I thought it was disgusting. I thought it was inappropriate and I wished she realized how bad it looked. Do I think it's my right to tell people what they should and shouldn't wear? No. I don't think its my place to walk up to people and tell them they shouldn't be wearing something. I do think its my right not to like what they're wearing and see it as very unflattering for their appearance. Maybe some people are calling me shallow right now as they read this. Lets look at it this way. I'm 6'4" and weight 198. It's pretty damn silly of me to go and make a StoneCold Steve Austin costume isn't it? I'd look like a idiot. Eh, I'm getting a little off subject I guess, or off point, whichever. The thing is just because someone doesn't think you look good in a certain outfit or as a certain character doesn't mean they are out to insult you, that they are shallow, or that they are cold hearted bastards just waiting to insult and hurt people. Do whatever costume you want but do it appropriately. Modify the original design to match your size and figure. Seriously we've all seen Man-fay haven't we? :-D

SAVE MAN FAYE!

LOL

That guy cracks me up but damn thats gross. Do I hate him? No. Would I talk to him at a con? Probably. I don't see why I wouldn't as long as equal respect were given to me from him.

Oh, I think it's really fricken ignorant as well to walk up to people in costumes that are overwieght and point it out to them. Like they don't know already. Shut up and move on. No need to insult people.

Anyway.... yeah...

Also it's extremely idiotic to hate a person thats the same size, color, sex, age, job occupation, shoe size, or whatever just because someone with similarities did something to you in the past. Thats about as dumb as someone hating everyone of a certain race because they were beat up by a person of a certain race. Idiotic.

Tia
02-21-2005, 05:52 PM
I pity you, Cel. But the fact that somebody hurt you doesn't mean that you should go around hurting other people just to make yourself feel better. You need to spend some time alone with yourself dealing with your issues. If you are suffering from clinical depression, which is sounds like, I suggest you go to a psychologist and attempt to get help for it. I can't guarantee it will help, though. I'm just saying this because it seems like at one point you were a kind person but then you got hurt and are taking it out on people who aren't involved in the situation at all. You are going to have to confront a lot of things in yourself and your past, though. I just say this because it sounds like you are not a happy person, and you are in need of help.

livvylove
02-21-2005, 06:04 PM
With that logic I would hate almost every type of person who did something terrible to me.

CreativeGuy
02-21-2005, 06:08 PM
The thing that cracks me up, and I'm not saying this to be insulting, I'm honestly not, is that Celebrimbor isn't exactly Mr. Slim himself and he hates fat people? Dude, what's your deal? Maybe you just have chubby cheeks and maybe I don't have enough photos of you to look at and you're really skinny. You're pretty well covered in all of your pics so I can't be 100% sure though. But maybe you have issues with your own weight and you're carrying them over onto others.

Miyabi-
02-21-2005, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Tia:
I do plan on doing one difficult to fit realistically costume this year, that everyone and their mother seems to be afraid to cosplay. That's Forte Stollen from Galaxy Angel, and she also has a gravity-defying chest. I'm probably going to be spending about half as much time just working on undergarments so the costume works on me than the entire costume itself (would be the same amount except for that darn jacket she has).

Whooot! Forte cosplayers unite! I felt so self concious in that costume but it was amusing to have people ask how I did the gravity defying cleavage. It's actually pretty easy...a nice padded strapless bra, some of those fake silicone boobies to tuck under your real ones and voila! Forte boobies!

Chibi Plush Toy
02-21-2005, 06:19 PM
Celebrimbor...that's just pretty pathetic, all your problems you wanna lash out on all of us overweight people for just ONE PERSON that ever made you upset? That's low...honestly it is.

Tia
02-21-2005, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Tia:


Whooot! Forte cosplayers unite! I felt so self concious in that costume but it was amusing to have people ask how I did the gravity defying cleavage. It's actually pretty easy...a nice padded strapless bra, some of those fake silicone boobies to tuck under your real ones and voila! Forte boobies!

lol. I don't need the extra help, it's just getting it all to stay in place 0.o; Definitely corset time.

MissSCeleste
02-21-2005, 06:45 PM
I knew you were still watching this thread Cel. *wink*

Remember that you have beautiful eyes.. and that no two people are alike.

Everyone is unique and when many people gather around the same prism and look through it they all see the colored lights around it in a different perspective, and yet its all part of same beautiful crystal. Tia's right. There is nothing here anyone can do to help you except yourself. Look from deep within and realize your buried emotions. It sounds like your heart has not healed because of your relationship with the girl you were with, and you still see her image wherever you go.

Well... This is what it sounds like from what you've posted so far...

but only YOU really know... what the TRUTH is..and it's easy to know when your lying to yourself and others... look in your heart... Why are you REALLY doing this?


People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So weíre different colours
And weíre different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
Itís obvious you hate me
Though Iíve done nothing wrong
Iíve never even met you
So what could I have done
I canít understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

Help me understand

Now youíre punching
And youíre kicking
And youíre shouting at me
And Iím relying on your common decency
So far it hasnít surfaced
But Iím sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I canít understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully?

I canít understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand

Help me understand...

"People are People" - Depeche Mode :heart: