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View Full Version : Weapons Policy - Mail Katsucon, Tell Them Your Opinion


John Booty
01-02-2003, 08:55 AM
Hmm, hope this thread isn't too redundant to Oshi's thread about the weapons policy (http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4760). I made a separate thread because it's something I really wanted to call attention to, and it's something that might affect a lot of us.

Long story short, Katsucon doesn't allow any replicas of weapons to be used as part of cosplay, unless they're made out of materials like "foamcore, paper maché , or cardboard" or possibly balsa wood in some cases. Also, you can't have anything resembling a gun, "not even gun-swords or obviously fake toys".

Personally, I think it's pretty ridiculous; as a 26 year-old I'm a bit offended that I'm not considered responsible enough to carry around a wooden sword (of course I realize the average convention-goer is younger). I don't understand their need for such a policy when I've never heard of any other cons who needed to act that way.

Anyway, if this is something you care about, I suggest emailing them at security@katsucon.com and respectfully (emphasis on "respectfully") stating your opinion. If enough people voice their opinion, they'll take note, and perhaps act. I'd also suggest letting them know this policy might directly affect your decision to attend Katsucon, if that's true in your case.

Here's the letter I sent them.


I guess I'm really just disappointed in the whole policy you guys have. This will be approximately my 10th anime convention, and I've never witnessed or heard of any problems resulting from replica weapons.

Anime Expo, Otakon, NekoCon, AnimeNext, AXNY, and Anime Weekend Atlanta don't have the kinds of prohibitive policies that Katsucon has. I'm sure you're aware of the great unpopularity your policies generate, if you've talked to con-goers or seen what people have to say about Katsucon online. I wonder why Katsucon sees fit to do things so differently, and in a way that obviously alienates a lot of people.

I personally know quite a few people who have decided not to attend Katsucon for this very reason. Right now, I'm not really sure if I want to attend, either. Costuming is a big part of my enjoyment at a convention, and with so many conventions to choose from, why should I choose a convention that really restricts that hobby?

I realize that I'm obviously not going to change anybody's mind with this letter, but I'd just like to register my opinion and perhaps learn the reasons for your policy.

Thanks for your time.

-John Rose


As a side note, WTF do you think is a reason for these policies? Were innocent people skewered and impaled by fake gunswords at past Katsucons? Have they had deranged cosplayers holding up convenience stores with toy laser guns? ^_^

And what if you've studied martial arts, and your body is a weapon? Are you even allowed to GO to Katsucon? XD

psythe
01-02-2003, 08:58 AM
Right on, I'll email them when I get a break from work here. That is sorta ridiculous.

John Booty
01-02-2003, 09:02 AM
Psyth3, you didn't impale any innocent virgins with bokkens or anything at past Katsucons, diiiiiid you?

FESS UP. XD

Cassandra
01-02-2003, 09:05 AM
You *do* realize that that may be the site's policy and not Katsu's, right? They have to conform to whatever the site wants. If they want no weapons, not even paper mache ones, Katsu has to follow through or try to find another site. (Which isn't always easy.)

Otakon and Anime Expo have a reputation. They can, most likely, get what they ask for...if it's reasonable. While this will be Katu's ninth year, I don't think they are quite big enough to throw around their weight.

Just keep that in mind. It may not be what Katsu wants. It may be what the site is telling them they have to do.

psythe
01-02-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by John Booty
Psyth3, you didn't impale any innocent virgins with bokkens or anything at past Katsucons, diiiiiid you?

FESS UP. XD

Nay I say!! It wasn't me!! I'm innocent!!

:devil:

John Booty
01-02-2003, 09:15 AM
> You *do* realize that that may be the
> site's policy and not Katsu's, right?

Well, duh. But other anime cons don't have such policies, and the whole point is just to let Katsucon know that you agree/disagree with their policy. If enough people voice their opinion, perhaps something will change.

Cass, I was at Katsucon last year and I must have heard 50 complaints from people about the policy, and not a single person in favor of it, and I heard quite a few people say they weren't going to go to any more Katsucons.

Maybe it's the site's policy, in fact I'd go so far as to say that it's *likely* the site's policy, but the point is that:

1. Other cons don't have such policies
2. These policies are disliked by a significant number of people.
3. There are other sites

Bottom line: If there was something causing large numbers of people to be unhappy with Kosaikon, no matter what the cause, I know *you'd* want to know! So that's why I'm suggesting people write to Katsucon and let *them* know. That's all!

John Booty
01-02-2003, 09:18 AM
> Nay I say!! .... I'm innocent!!

I'm sure that's what the virgins said!

Cassandra
01-02-2003, 09:21 AM
But wasn't it Katsucon that had all that damage done last year? From what I understand, it's actually quite lucky that Katsu is even going to happen this year. No one wanted to host them because of all the damage that was done.

John Booty
01-02-2003, 09:28 AM
I think there was some grafitti/vandalism or something last year? The hotel was pretty convention-unfriendly to begin with.

Do you think that played into the weapons policy thing? On one hand, I guess it could, from a "general rowdiness" standpoint. On the other hand, I don't think the vandalism was performed with cosplay weapons! XD

Cassandra
01-02-2003, 09:32 AM
I would say most likely it had an effect on all their policies. I'm gonna see if I can find any exact numbers, but it was a LOT of damage. The staff was really upset about it....they seriously almost didn't go forth with 2003.

psythe
01-02-2003, 09:34 AM
I can see making a hidden knife sheath in my bracer for my wooden knives. My balsa wood blades o doom! ph33r it.

What am I gonna do with those? tickle someone to death?

John Booty
01-02-2003, 11:17 AM
Damn! I got a response from him, and it's completely rude.

How retarded. In my letter, while I talked about how I clearly disagreed with the policy, I don't think I was rude at all. I think he was totally out of line.

I mean, honestly the issue of whether or not I'm allowed to carry around a wooden sword is really not a life-or-death thing, but if I disagree with something I'm gonna talk about it, you know?


John, Our policies come from 20+ years of running security at conventions.

1). Rules can not be selective.... obviously the wording of the sword/prop
rule should be changed so you and the 15 other people who have asked about
it in the last 2 years will get a clue.... but 15 out of 6500 isn't a bad
ratio. The prop sword rule is in effect because at several conventions,
including Katsucon 7, 6, and 5, we had problems with people sparring with
wooden swords in the hallways... since the children are obviously too
immature to not play with their props, we must ban them. Same goes for
metal weapons... we've even had near self-amputations at a con I help run.
Rules are for the lowest common denomination.

2). Firearms.... Anything that looks remotely like a firearm in VA can get
you SHOT. there is a silhouette law in Virginia that allows cops to shoot
kids with laser tag pistols with no repercussions.... cops frequent our
convention checking us out... all weekend.... wanna get shot? Even your
silly looking prop gun looks similar to a real gun... it looks similar to a
military / police riot tear gas launcher.... wanna get shot? There kits
that you can attach to a standard revolver that make them look like a Buck
Rogers zap gun... Glock now sells their guns in florescent and fashion
colors... so you can get a lavender 9mm.... and who couldn't operate a can
of spray paint? in my 16 years of convention security, I have had many
people come up to me and say "why can't I wear my exact duplicate of a
glock 17.... that guy over there has a fake gun...."? The fake gun he was
referring to was an L shaped block of wood...

No matter what our policies are, someone will not be happy with them.

It's too bad that you can't enjoy yourself without your fake gun. There is
more to life then fake guns.

Why not pretend that the Con is a weapons-free zone.... that there are
weapons scanners at the doors that make it so you don't need to bring your
gun for whatever reason.... be creative....

Tenjou
01-02-2003, 11:21 AM
[ Damn! I got a response from him, and it's completely rude.

How retarded. In my letter, while I talked about how I clearly disagreed with the policy, I don't think I was rude at all. I think he was totally out of line. ]


e.e harsh. I know he's concerned and stuff about Katsucon and its attendees, but he could have stated his opinion um... nicer? x_x; I don't think you were rude at all in your letter. Good luck John. I hope something works out.

John Booty
01-02-2003, 11:31 AM
Yeah, I'm kinda bummed about that. I don't really think I'm gonna go, now. The weapons thing isn't a huge issue, but there's no way I'm taking time off of work, traveling hundreds of miles, and spending hundreds of dollars to attend something organized by people who insult me.

I mean, it's not like me not attending is gonna make them lose sleep at night or anything, but forget that convention.

psythe
01-02-2003, 11:35 AM
Oh my...

That is SO rude. Yeesh. :(

Cassandra
01-02-2003, 11:38 AM
Hey Booty...remember this when your email goes up on Kosai's site as security head and you're getting emails about similiar stuff. The guy has a point (even though he did word it wrong...probably having a bad day). I mean, sure, weapon props make the costume look good but there really isn't much of a point to bringing them. And people DO get hurt with them. Which costs the con money. (Liability insurance...people will sue over that.) Which also makes the con look bad when they're shopping around for sites.

You have to think about it from their point of view. Katsu has had numerous problems with vandalism and injuries. They're trying to reign in those people who don't know NOT to rip lightswitches off a wall or spray silly string in elevators or whatever. To be honest, I'm surprised they are still going with 2003. I hope, for their sake, that they aren't shooting themselves in the foot.

diqitaldreams
01-02-2003, 12:25 PM
Wow..that was mean. O.o; ... Hmm... I do understand that they have those policies for a reason but ::sigh:: the way he/she worded it -- that was just harsh. T_T oh well...

John Booty
01-02-2003, 12:41 PM
I forwarded the email exchange to the con chairs. I'd have to say that I'm very impressed. They replied very quickly and apologized for the rudeness of their staff member, which is commendable. While I still don't agree with the weapons policy, I think that the rude attitude of the security dude is DEFINITELY not a good representation of the rest of the staff. They definitely seem to care and to be honestly interested in what we have to say. :)

Here's the email I got from the con chair (phone number removed):


Greetings Mr Rose..
My name is Keith Mayfield Chairman of Katsucon.
First of all i absoutly appologise for the extreme rudeness
that one of the security officers conveied to you.
He is not in charge of our security team.

The reason for the extreme methods is because of at that time
the state of the country at that time. I am actualy considering
revising some of the restrictions, however what ever those changes
may be, all weapons must be checked by security staff and peace
bonded. This is for you and all around you maintain safety.

In some hotel and other facilities require a level of security
where weapons are not allowed even before the hightened
level of security.
If you would like to discuss this further please call me at
XXX-XXX-XXXX

And once again please accept my apologies on the way you were
treated..

Keith

Ps if you know anyone else who is unhappy with our policies please have
them contact me asap. Actualy this was the first complaint that has
come across me.


He's definitely looking for feedback concerning this policy, so if anybody has feedback, he's listening. It's interesting to note that he says this is the first complaint he's received- while I heard a lot of complaints at the con last year, this goes to show that we need to speak up a bit in order to be heard! ^_^

John Booty
01-02-2003, 12:56 PM
Hey Booty...remember this when your email goes up on Kosai's site as security head and you're getting emails about similiar stuff. The guy has a point (even though he did word it wrong...probably having a bad day). I mean, sure, weapon props make the costume look good but there really isn't much of a point to bringing them. And people DO get hurt with them.

I haven't seen or heard of anybody being hurt with one in the scads of cons I've been to. I have seen people get hurt at con dances, though. Better get rid of them, I guess?

I mean, let's face it- one of the big attractions of a con is costuming, and of course weapons are a big part of many costumes. And where do you draw the line? My friend Alex carried around an actual bass guitar as part of her Haruko costume. You can do a hell of a lot more damage with that than a flimsy wooden sword.

The only way you're going to REALLY hurt somebody with a wodden sword is SERIOUSLY attack them, or be SERIOUSLY reckless. And if you're the type to do those things, I don't see how the lack of a wooden sword is really going to hold you back.

How about big costumes? You know, costumes with big wings sticking out, big headdresses, that sort of thing. Truthfully, these are more of a risk than anything else, because they tend to poke other people in crowded areas. I've never been hit with a wooden sword at a con, but I've been hit with accidental feathered wings to the eye.

On one hand, I understand the liability thing, but on the other hand, if you start taking away parts of what makes a convention fun, what's the point?

For the record (this is for anybody reading, not really directed at you, Cass, since you've seen my costumes), most of the costumes i've done didn't have weapons. I'm not some huge weapon freak; I'm perfectly aware that fun can be had without them! Happiness doesn't rest on whether or not one can carry a wooden sword around at an anime convention- but it is kinda fun, so I'd like to be able to do it if I so choose. ^_^

Cass- while I haven't seen any prop weapon injuries first-hand at cons, I'm not the all-seeing eye, either. You've spoken with various con people in the past- are these injuries a big reality, or just something people are being cautious about?

Carmila
01-02-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by John Booty


Maybe it's the site's policy, in fact I'd go so far as to say that it's *likely* the site's policy, but the point is that:

1. Other cons don't have such policies
2. These policies are disliked by a significant number of people.
3. There are other sites



Actually, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. For the past two years AWA has had a Zero Weapons Policy due to County ordinance as well as the policy of the convention center it was held at. This years AWA also has a Zero Weapons Policy due to the fact that the con hotel is attached to a "mall" (it is kind of a mall and convention center in one)

Weapons are only allowed for the Cosplay Judging and for the "Fashion Show". Other than thay they have to be left in rooms or cars. No exceptions, no excuses.

makio
01-02-2003, 01:05 PM
...I already had a run in with cops versus cosplayers in the past (the most recent event being last October), and it's never been very professional or nice. Sure, I can understand why they'd be cautious due to previous events stemming from not just 9/11 but other people vs police events. I agree that the guy who answered John originally did sound pretty harsh... but he's (apparently) not the chairman of Katsucon nor the chief of security at the event; so don't sweat it.

I think it's a "lazy" approach in telling everyone that there's absolutely no weapons allowed... and it would be best to allow prop weapons, but have the usual security or convention officials policing the halls for knuckleheads without peace bonded weapons or immaturely goofing off with them. It's that simple. It's worked thus far without any outstanding problems or trouble at any of the conventions thus far. I say... allow prop weapons, but like everything, have consequences for misbehavior. Have 'em checked at the doors or before costume/cosplay contests. Whichever. But there's no need to get extreme with prohibiting prop item use altogether.

Afterall, how else can you supress fanboys without a giant sized mallet? Or fangirls with a gunblade?
:devil:

edit: Virginia (along with other states...including Florida) do have a lot of "shoot first and ask questions later" type rules when it comes to toy or real guns... though I feel if both states can (and do) hold gun shows, then I don't see how an anime convention could be much different. I'll save my rant on how I disliked AWA8's location for the rant board, so I'll just leave it at this: "I don't think anime conventions should be held in hotels...at all. Near them, yes. In them...NO."

John Booty
01-02-2003, 01:09 PM
I think it's a "lazy" approach in telling everyone that there's absolutely no weapons allowed... and it would be best to allow prop weapons, but have the usual security or convention officials policing the halls for knuckleheads without peace bonded weapons or immaturely goofing off with them. It's that simple. It's worked thus far without any outstanding problems or trouble at any of the conventions thus far. I say... allow prop weapons, but like everything, have consequences for misbehavior. Have 'em checked at the doors or before costume/cosplay contests. Whichever. But there's no need to get extreme with prohibiting prop item use altogether.

I absolutely agree with this 100%. Perfectly stated.
Actually, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. For the past two years AWA has had a Zero Weapons Policy
I stand corrected. Thanks!

Cassandra
01-02-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by John Booty

Cass- while I haven't seen any prop weapon injuries first-hand at cons, I'm not the all-seeing eye, either. You've spoken with various con people in the past- are these injuries a big reality, or just something people are being cautious about?

I'm trying to pull together some sort of statistics on it since no one really publishes those kinds of facts. However, I do know that there are a lot of idiots out there that do stupid things at cons. (The whole destroying hotel property....actually fighting with their props....you know what I mean.) There are cons that put rules on the actual attendees as well....Otakon, AX, Katsucon....because they have to go by the "People are idiots" rule and assume that no one knows how to control themselves. Unfortunately, there is a very small percentage of congoers that CAN'T control themselves and they end up making life hell for the majority.

To quote the head of Katsucon pre-reg:
"And the fact is that 99.9% of fen are decent, cool folk. But multiply that remaining .1% by 5000, that's 5 people who can shut a con down. And it only takes one bozo who didn't get the attention he needed as a kid to do it."

Carmila
01-02-2003, 02:12 PM
No problem. Though I have to say at times it has been quite a drag with a Zero Weapons policy. Some costumes just need their weapons.

As for the cops, at AWA this past year there were lots of problems with people running into them (public drunkeness, weapons, Bondage Faries, that sort of thing) and let me tell you, it is not a pretty thing.

Though a no weapons policy does put a damper on cosplay, sometimes it is necessary for others safety and it not "lazy". I understand that taking the time to make such a weapon takes a lot of talent as well as pride and that you want to show it off, but think of others as well as the con staff who have to make these decisions.

But I have to agree with the wing and accessory thing. Some of them should be deamed "deadly weapons".

John Booty
01-02-2003, 02:41 PM
In my mind, the idiotic minority will ruin things whether they have fake weapons in their hands or not.

If they're not play-fighting with weapons (something I have witnessed, although it's always been outside hotels, not in the actual convention) they're horsing around and play martial-arts fighting. Or vandalizing or whatever. In fact, the whole vandalization thing kind of proves my point, I think: idiots will find ways to be idiots no matter how many of their toys you take away. Last year's vandalism problem at Katsu occurred AFTER the no-weapons policy was in effect; obviously the no-weapons policy didn't deter the idiots. All it did was annoy the legit con-goers. I'd honestly point to Katsu2001 as proof of the FAILURE of the weapons policy.

I mean, how do you fight that? Do you ban markers, pens, and pencils at cons so that nobody writes graffitti on the hotel walls? Take handwriting samples from everybody when they enter the con, so that you can match them against the graffitti? Make everyone wear mittens so that they can't write well enough to attempt graffitti in the first place?

The only way to stop that is to have a good security presence and keep an eye on things. No easy task, and definitely not foolproof since you can't be everywhere at once, but I don't think it's made any easier or harder by the absense of weapons. In fact... if security didn't have to spend so much time checking weapons, they could spend that manpower looking out for the "real" idiots.

Weapons or no weapons, I think it really comes down to the fact that there's gonna be a few idiots around, no matter what. And they will ruin things for others. But overly-restictive polices don't stop the idiots, they only hurt the legit con-goers.

Cassandra
01-02-2003, 02:51 PM
Yeah, they hurt legit congoers but it HELPS the con. You can LOSE the hotel for people play fighting with weapons. You lose one hotel, other hotels check your con history....they either jack up the prices or refuse to host you.
Yes, vandalism hurts more...but a lot of cons ban people for doing that. (Yes, cons do keep a blacklist. It's not distributed between cons but each individual con has their own list.) They do what the can to prevent that. You can't really predict when/where vandalism will happen. (People have actually GLUED flyers to elevators....other morons have actually moved every hotel plant in the area INTO the elevators...) However, you CAN avoid weapon injuries. By not letting them in, you're not only preventing one type of injury, but you're letting your security staff focus on other (more important IMHO) things. Like "real" injuries from people not eating all weekend...or looking out for vandals...or making sure the dealers are behvaing themselves...

You figure....for every troublemaker with a sword fighting, those security people could have been dealing with a major emergency like someone having an epileptic seizure.

John Booty
01-02-2003, 03:05 PM
Cass, you've only been to one con, and I've been to a lot. I really think you're over-estimating the amount of horseplay that goes on with fake weapons.

In all the cons I've been too, I've seriously seen that happen once or twice, and that was with bokkens (bamboo practice swords).

Who in the world is going to spend the time making a prop weapon, only to go swinging it around and breaking? Unless you have your own steel forge or some other kind of professional weapon-making ability, your props are gonna be ruined reallllllly quickly when you start play-fighting with them!

I've literally never seen anybody play-fighting with their home-built props.

Besides, anybody who's been to a con knows that FAKE SWORDS aren't the biggest health hazard - it's UNWASHED OTAKU BODY ODOR! I think I'm gonna build a fake sword out of SOAP and hit sweaty otaku with it. :P

Ayaka
01-02-2003, 03:06 PM
Well I was going to say what the con head type person said - I don't blame Katsu for the weapons policy, even though I agree that it IS silly. Unfortunately it's just one part of a national trend of reactionary policies that, frankly, make no sense. :\ It sucks, but I'm not sure there's much to be done about it.

Of course, that said, I'm pretty frustrated with the Katsucon policy, because it means I can't carry a (truly absurd looking) ray gun with one costume just in case, and that I have to *intentionally* find something breakable and fragile-looking to make a prop sword out of for another. :(

And, I haven't been to a huge number of cons, but I've never seen anyone play-fighting with their homemade weapons. No one wants to risk busting up their hard work. I suppose I'm guilty of "play-fighting" with a shinai at AX last year, but I was just practicing stances with a person who's experienced in kendo. There was no chance of accidental whacking. Personally I do really think that policies ought to be on a case-by-case basis, as in, if you see two kids fighting with the weapons, THEN do something about it, as opposed to making a policy on the basis of a small chance . . . but, again, like I said, national reactionary policy-making tends to not be logical.

Cassandra
01-02-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by John Booty
Cass, you've only been to one con, and I've been to a lot. I really think you're over-estimating the amount of horseplay that goes on with fake weapons.


The difference is: I frequently talk to con chairs. You don't ;) You don't SEE everything that goes on. A lot of cons deal with things rather quietly.

John Booty
01-02-2003, 03:43 PM
Well, I've been to 10 cons and never seen problems with weapon props. That's like, 31 days of con-time. 500-600 hours. I don't doubt that incidents have occurred here or there at some point in the history of anime conventions in America, but how often does it happen? I simply do not see it.

By far, anime conventions are extremely safe places, some of the safest places I've ever been. I *have* seen messed-up stuff happening though (random harassment, etc) and none of it involved weapons.

Just look at dances. Dehydration, people hurting themselves and medical personel showing up and evacuating the entire floor (Nekocon... Nekocon01 I believe), non con-goers showing up, copping feels, and starting fights (Otakon01), random sexual harassment (every dance), people being hit with the glowstick strings that people swing around (every dance), and of course, the body odor. :P

edit: Of course I don't see everything that goes on, but neither do con chairs. Look at that letter from the Katsucon chair - he says mine was the first complaint he's received re: the weapons policy... a policy that was definitely one of the "buzz" topics of conversation at Katsu last year, because nobody seemed to like it. I'm not just talking like "me and Alex didn't like it"- I took pictures of like a hundred cosplayers and hung out with a bunch more. I can confidently say that it was overwhelmingly unpopular. But the chair didn't hear about it until now. So much for the omniscence of con chairs!

ps: chair! chair! chair!

John Booty
01-02-2003, 05:58 PM
Since the con chairman asked for feedback, I sent him a link to this thread.

Perhaps he'll view it! So your comments here may be indeed read by the people in charge.

Thanks for the discussion guys.

hoshikage
01-02-2003, 07:53 PM
Since I've never attended Katsucon, I suppose this could be considered none of my business, but I do have a couple of comments...

1) Fanime also had a very intolerant weapons policy this past year. I, like many people, wasn't terribly happy about it, but I followed the rules and had no problems. Now mind you, this was not a demand on the part of Fanime staff; it was a stipulation of their contract with the facility hosting the con. I understand that you want to bring the matter to the attention of the con chairs, but please realize that they may not have a choice. Especially at this point, it will not be possible for them to find another venue.

2) No costume *needs* a prop weapon. It is very nice to have them, but really, it is not *necessary*. You will not die of the humiliation of not having it with you. And never, ever underestimate the danger of a police officer who may have no idea what an anime con is or that the thing you're carrying around is harmless. Your prop is not more important than keeping peace between yourself and the local police. I'm very, *very* serious about this. If the local law allows cops to shoot first and ask questions later, please give serious thought to leaving your props at home. I may sound paranoid, as I doubt anyone has ever actually fallen afoul of the law at an anime con for carrying a prop weapon - but you don't want to be the first unlucky statistic, either.

ZiggyB
01-02-2003, 08:11 PM
Now another way to look at it, is just work your way around the rules. If you can't can't have a prop gun, fine. Use something else. One example is during LosCon in Burbank, a woman who was dressed up as Lara Croft instead of using fake handguns of any kind, used bannanas. Even had them in her holster. It was very funny in photos, and you'd never go hungry at a con. ;)

If you can have prop weapons like Katsu, but are restricted to the materials you use, follow the rules. Look at it as a challenge for future prop making where you will probably *want* to use foam core, or cardboard or balsawood. I've made two gunblades now, one *really* ghetto one with cardboard and a slightly less ghetto one with wood. I'm sorta comfortable with both now.

Granted there are some fights worthy of spending your time and attention on, I think fighting an uphill battle with hotel security isn't one of them. And just think about it for the long term, if/when Katsucon does start getting larger and have more influence, don't you think they will push for a more liberal weapons policy?

So attend the con, have some fun, don't be an idiot and do something stupid which will get the con blamed and let the hard working con-staff fight the good fights.

IMHO...

Mako-san
01-02-2003, 09:54 PM
AT Neko con 02, this guy I know was play fighting when another guy came up and started "play fighting" with wooden swords and my friend got hit up side the head. He received an open flesh wound. So I can understand why they would have strict policy. There are stupid people in the world who would like nothing better than to do stupid stuff. If it will keep people safe, then I will just have to deal with it.

Tenshi
01-02-2003, 11:58 PM
Props aren't absolutely necessary for costumes, but I know two of my costumes for Katsu won't look right without the aid of a prop. I knew someone at AX who was carrying a real sword, and it was wired shut into the sheath by the con, and peacebonded. I don't see why this wouldn't be feasible at Katsucon. Just my $.02.

Carmila
01-03-2003, 03:51 PM
I have an update in regards to the AWA thing.

I just read that weapons will be allowed in the hotel only. However, if the cops catch you outside of the hotel with it, you are toast.

Cassandra
01-03-2003, 04:07 PM
A-Kon's weapon policy (from 2002):

"In tough negotiations with the hotel (they wanted NO weapons allowed of any
kind, real OR fake, we argued the other way) we have had to come to a
compromise, due to the security levels at the airport, and the heightened
security now in place, AND the fact that we're on federally regulated
property and not just a local jurisdiction. The following guidelines are
in place as a weapons policy for this year's A-Kon:

1) NO LIVE STEEL, of any kind (katana, dagger, stars, swords, claws, forks,
etc.). If it has a blade, or a pointy end and made of metal, it's
disallowed, whether it's sharp or not. This includes during the cosplay.
If it's made of light materials (balsa wood, plastic, PVC, rattan,
cardboard, other light material), it's okay.
2) NO BANG-BANGS. If it's a real bullet throwing weapon, even if it's
rendered unusable, the trigger is duct taped so it can't be pulled, and is
unloaded, or tied in a holster it's disallowed. The DPD's real bullet
throwing weapons ARE real and they are nervous enough as it is.
3) FAKE weaponry (as long as it IS REALLY fake or LOOKS fake) like plastic
guns, rubber daggers, ropes painted to look like whips, space blasters,
hyper-mallets, etc. are allowed.
4) If it is a REAL weapon of any kind (whether loaded or unloaded,
basically anything that IS a real weapon, intended to be used AS a weapon
(real whips, heavy clubs, swords, etc.) it is disallowed and cannot be
carried openly.
5) Purchases of real weapons (whether sharp or not) from A-Kon vendors
(this was a tough one) must be immediately stored after purchase (hotel
room, car, etc.) and NOT carried openly around the Kon where it is visible.
6) Peacebonding is not sufficient this year to alleviate the hotel's (and
the police's) concern over the weaponry issue.

We know this puts a kink into some people's cosplay activities and on-stage
skits, and we're sorry about that. Blame four radical individuals who
changed our world back in September for this inconvenience. Wooden bokan
(iffy, but on the edge of acceptability), rattan swords, plastic replicas,
waterguns (non-loaded), plastic guns w/neon painted tips, even foil-covered
cardboard, although not as pretty perhaps, can suffice in these cases.
It's the 'perception' of weaponry that is at issue here, as well as the
actual security concerns (and the local law officials that will be at the
Kon)."

John Booty
01-03-2003, 04:32 PM
Akon's policy seems pretty reasonable. I can of course see why you wouldn't want any real weapons, or anything that could possibly be mistaken for a real weapon.

I think it also shows that cons can negotiate a favorable compromise between what cosplayers want, and the security concerns of hotel/police. Conventions pay a lot of money to rent out space- they're paying customers, you know?

I think that's a good example of a weapons policy that strikes a good balance between safety and fun.

Edit: Of course, the bargaining leeway available to the con really varies, I'm sure. If the convention facility's really in demand, and there are other groups who are itching to rent it out for that weekend besides the anime convention, then I'm sure that really reduces the bargaining room available to the convention.

Cassandra
01-03-2003, 04:34 PM
It says basically the same thing as Katsu's. It has to LOOK fake.

John Booty
01-03-2003, 04:49 PM
I might be misunderstanding, but I don't think that's even close to Katsu's, is it? Katsu doesn't allow "wooden weapons such as bokken, staffs, etc"... also, fake guns of ANY kind aren't allowed at Katsu. (see the rambling response I got from Katsu back on page 1... apparently not even things that "look like a Buck Rogers zap gun" are okay)

Akon's policy allows those things- bokkens are okay, so it sounds like other wooden things would be okay as well, right? Also fake guns are okay as long as they're really fake-looking.

I would say that the vast majority of cosplay props fall under those categories, so I'd say it's really a world of difference between the two.

Of course the two policies are the same when it comes to things like REAL GUNS AND SWORDS but honestly, that's kind of a no-brainer. Even *I* don't think actual katana-wielding 13 year-olds hopped up on sugar and no sleep are a good idea!

(edit: did my past posts make it look like I was in favor of real weapons being carried around at cons? jeez, hope not! that was never the case but maybe i wasn't specific enough?)

Lilli
01-03-2003, 05:29 PM
That would be because A-Kon is run by people who KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING, Booty. And who understand the boundaries of the realm of reality. Unlike the trained chimpanzees who run Katsucon. You're not misunderstanding, A-Kon's weapons policies are very lenient and cosplayer friendly. That they allow plastic, obviously fake guns with neon painted tips is commendable. Katsucon, for as many cosplayers as it attracts, sure as heck dosn't seem to like them very much. I admit that I'm going to Katsucon this year, HOWEVER, I will not be purchasing a membership this year. Not even with the added lure of Duel Jewel. Sorry, but I'm not paying $50 to stand in line all weekend, and be ordered around by pimple-faced 17 year olds with power trips and body odor. I'm going to Katsucon to cosplay, and to see my friends.

Booty, your posts didn't make it look like you were in favor of real weapons, guns, live steel, etc. Maybe it does, to people who don't bother to actually read your e-mails or posts, (I don't have to name names, it's obvious what I'm referring to.) but the rest of us who bother understand what you're saying. If Katsucon had the sense to have a weapons policy like A-Kon, then this post wouldn't have to exist, now would it? But that's your first mistake. Relating the word "Sense" to anything having to do with Katsucon.

'boo hoo, maybe it's the hotel's fault, not katsucon's! why are you guys being so mean to poor head up it's arse katsucon? boo hoo.' Well. This may be a viable question. Seeing as how the con IS taking place on the east coast, and therefore the hotels are more likely to be stuck-up, closed-minded, and enacting all sorts of knee-jerk reactionary policies, after "9-11."

If anyone cares, I'm fsking tired of hearing about "9-11" as an excuse for people being anal-retentive, drooling retards. This isn't a convention of Arabs, or a nuclear weapons gathering, or even "Jews for Jesus." It's a bunch of anime fans, most of whom with no lives. What happened at the hotel at last year's Katsucon is too bad. It really is a shame that some otaku can't control themselves. Maybe you can chalk it up to them spending their every waking hour in their mommy's basement, watching nothing but porn and anime, and no doubt quite a bit of porno animes. But the hotel choice was incredibly poor, and helped me to understand that the people who run Katsucon have even LESS sense than I'd previously imagined.

Did what I say piss anyone off? Do I care? Welcome to the Wide World of "NO." I don't care if you're cheering my name, or crying to your mommy about 'that mean girl on the message board.' The only reason I'm even wasting my time posting this is because I'm so honestly tired of all this crap dealing with Katsucon. They make my ass hurt. I'd sworn to myself that I wouldn't waste my time on Katsucon this year, but then some friends who I almost never get to see decided to go. And so I'll be there at Katsucon, once again, closing my eyes, gritting my teeth, and smiling all the while, because I didn't stand in like for 4.5 hours, only to have them change the place where the line IS, only to give them $50, just so I can stand in more lines for the rest of the weekend.

word.

Sciguy
01-03-2003, 06:07 PM
I wonder, has any one asked the hotel if they'd allow volunteers to help check and peacebond weapons? If part of their reason for doing it is because they don't think that they can peacebond everything and watch everything at once, then perhaps an offer to volunteer would be of some use?

Cassandra
01-03-2003, 06:08 PM
They said the bokkans are iffy, but on the edge of acceptablity. I didn't think you were for carrying live weaponry, but were aiming your rants more towards the "no wooden stuff" rule. And it really just depends on the site. Even Anime Expo's website says they have to inspect all potentionally hazardous items. (And yes, most wooden weapons can be seen as potentially hazardous....I'm talking the staff, the bokken, in some cases bonbori...not so much the wooden guns.)

Virginia also had the sniper last year. A lot of places are still really shook up about it. (Add in those leftover feelings from 9/11 and I'm surprised even Otakon is leaving some stuff in.)

As for Lilli's comments...I'm not really defending Katsucon so much as their rights to write their own rules and policies. Congoers often forget that the stuff they may see on-site or the stuff they may disagree with...may or may not be avoided in the hands of the staff. I don't much care if you don't like the con. I just think they're nice people and they don't really deserve people getting pissed at them over their weaponry rules.

Lilli
01-03-2003, 06:33 PM
Their 'weaponry rules' are actually just a small part of why I say they suck. That just happened to be the topic of this thread, and so wow. That's what I posted about. If someone decided to start a "Why Does Katsucon Suck So Much?" thread, then maybe I'll see about adding in a few more nuggets there. But until then, :p

And remember ^-^ I don't give a damn what you think. Have you ever even been to a Katsucon? Not that it matters.

Cassandra
01-03-2003, 06:40 PM
Nope. Never been to one. I just know the chair's side of the story. *shrug*

Lilli
01-03-2003, 07:05 PM
And as was proved by Booty's earlier e-mail correspondance, it would seem that the chair of Katsucon is blissfully ignorant of many things. Listen, not to sound like I'm being a bitch to you, that's really not my intention, but it dosn't do much for your credibility, if you form all your opinions based on what that one person says, and you have no firsthand experience.

Maybe if the con chair would take time to go amongst the crowds, instead of surrounding themselves with 15 year olds who praise them as being Gods, they'd see what a greater percentage of people think/feel about their con, be it positive or negative.

Cassandra
01-03-2003, 07:14 PM
Well...first off...let me say that it wouldn't be highly unusual for a con chair to not know what's going on in the other staffers' email accounts. It's not like the chair is going to read each and every email that goes through a con account. (This is why there is a chain of command...pre-con the chair takes care of the more important things...like paying for stuff and the site and guests...the chair is usually pretty dependant on the "lower staffers" to take care of complaints and emails.) However, AT the con is a very different animal altogether. Most of the time, the chair is taking care of a variety of things at once. Including any emergencies and difficulties.

I talk to quite a few con chairs. While I've never been to Anime North or A-Kon or Nekocon or Anime Expo...I *do* talk to their chairs. (And a few of their staffers....but somehow I didn't think mentioning the Katsu pre-reg guy was much of a help to the convo.) Con chairs are only as good as their heads of staff....they can't be everywhere at once.

Lady_Sephiroth
01-03-2003, 11:06 PM
Okay, stuff to think about --

Katsu has had a policy of this kind every year. This is my 3rd Katsucon, and it's their way. Deal with it.

I've met the cosplay coordinators and the DO know what they are doing. They're serious con veterans, from the SF con days. Trust them. I've also been in 2 Katsucon cosplays, last year I had a wood sword and they peacebonded it, no questions, they wer more concerned about my skirt length.

Katsu 7 they gave us a VERY serious lecture at Opening Ceremony about the VA Sillouehte law. The cops there are serious, especially after the whole sniper thing. I have family in that area and the cops really are that hard-nosed about it.

Last year at the Mariott, we were their first (and probaly last) fan con. They didn't expect people runing around in revealing outfits, with fake weapons, etc. They had a knee-jerk reaction, which involved asking cosplayers to go back to their rooms and chang (they didn't) and becoming very paranoid about crowd control and such. Some hotel staff was even quite rude about it, I heard one quote floating arounf the hotel that the cosplayer would scare away other customers. We couldn't even use the room we were going to use for a photo pit, they were worried about hte number of people in it, and fire codes and such. IIRC, Katsu also had to put an attendance cap on the con, because the hotel was so concerned. Well, some people decided, instead of expressing their dissatisfaction in a mature way, like talking to a hotel manager or writing a polite letter, to graffiti the hotel in protest. I'm not surprised they had to find a new hotel.

From the sounds of things, we're lucky that we're having a Katsucon at all this year. Let's be grateful, behave ourselves at the con and try to help them rebuild their rep so that Katsu 10 will happen!

John Booty
01-04-2003, 01:08 AM
> I'm not really defending Katsucon so
> much as their rights to write their
> own rules and policies.

Good thing you're defending them! Because we're all calling for that right to be stripped away from them!

*rolls eyes*

The question isn't, "can Katsucon do what they want". Of course they can. The question is, "is this a good policy?"

> I just think they're nice people and
> they don't really deserve people
> getting pissed at them over their
> weaponry rules.

I don't think anybody's "pissed" at the weaponry rules. I started this thread because I *disagreed* with one of the rules and knew that a lot of other people felt the same. So I encouraged people to let Katsucon know.

I know of a few people who have now sent emails to the staff, I had an email exchange with the chairs, I sent them a link to this thread. The opinions of people who disagreed with the policy to this thread are now known to the chairpeople. I would call that a big success- that's more than I hoped for!

The only thing I was "pissed" at was the rude letter I got from one of their staffers, but that's another story. And that story's over, since I got an apology.

Cass, you weren't even at Katsucon last year. I mean, you have certain insights that we don't from your conversations with con chairs and your experience pulling Kosaikon together, but on the other hand the combined con-going and cosplaying experience on this thread is like 100x yours. I mean, you're not even really into going to cons or cosplaying.

John Booty
01-04-2003, 01:22 AM
> From the sounds of things, we're lucky
> that we're having a Katsucon at all this
> year. Let's be grateful, behave
> ourselves at the con and try to help
> them rebuild their rep so that Katsu 10
> will happen!

Oh, come on. Now, look, I'm not anti-Katsucon or anything; some policies sucked last year but I still had a good time. And I'll most likely be there this year too, which tells you how I feel about the thing overall.

But stop acting like we owe them a favor or something. Having seen the work Cass has put into Kosaikon, I know even a small con is hard work. But cons are still a business, even if they are a labor of love in many ways. They happen because fans are willing to pay money to attend them. If you're a paying customer your opinion really does matter.

The truth of the matter is that by letting them know our feelings (whichever side you're on), we really ARE doing them a favor. The more they understand what kind of con fans want, the more they can make it happen.

I don't know how much experience you all have in the "real world", but take my advice.... if you're into the idea of running a successful business, customer feedback is something you LOVE. Whether the feedback is positive or negative you NEED it, if you're going to produce something your audience wants.

Some of you (Lady, Cass, etc) make it sound like I'm peeing all over Katsucon's lawn by making a thread like this. In reality, something like this is really helpful to Katsucon. Even the con chair said it himself- if anybody dislikes the policies, he'd love to know about it.

Lady Sephorith's "shut up and be happy they're giving us a con" attitude helps absolutely nobody. Not even Katsucon!

Sciguy
01-07-2003, 11:00 PM
I E-mailed the Katsucon weapons people and my staff for my Miroku costume has been cleared! It was expressed to me that staves were allowed as long as they were not made of hardwood (pine is alright) and are an inch in diameter or less. Also, as long as any metal is kept to a minimum, the metal rings I plan to put on it are cleared as well! The person mailing the OK (I forget the name) was also quite polite and helpful. I'm so happy!

Now all I need to do is to make the staff

dizzylizzy
01-08-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by John Booty
Psyth3, you didn't impale any innocent virgins with bokkens or anything at past Katsucons, diiiiiid you?

FESS UP. XD

:::Raises hand:::: it was me. sorry. ::wink::

Giant Alucard
01-15-2003, 09:05 AM
This policy is going to be a problem, since i am trying to go as alucard from hellsing. The two guns i am getting are the offcial models from japan (one black the other silver, both about a foot in length each). I dont know whether to be concerned or not, cause i saw some some photos from the last katsucon with a guy with the same exact guns, which is kind of strange. If i am not able to take the two guns, my costume wont look quite right. What do you guys think they will say?

John Booty
01-15-2003, 09:11 AM
If they're doing things like last year, and it sounds like they are, you probably won't be allowed to carry them.

What they did last year was if you were carrying weapons they'd take you to the security peeps who'd inspect your weapon and if it passed they'd tie a ribbon around it. Otherwise you'd be asked not to carry it around.

Celine
01-15-2003, 11:06 AM
Whee, a thread about Katsucon policies. How could I possibly miss this? -_-

>What they did last year was if you were carrying weapons they'd take you to the security peeps who'd inspect your weapon and if it passed they'd tie a ribbon around it.

Really? I had no such encounter with the Katsu staff, and didn't even meet the security people. Regular staffers told me that my weapon was far too realistic and ordered that it be put away. I strongly believe that orange tips on super fake plastic guns should not upset people. I've heard nothing but *complaints* about Katsucon's stupid policies. Even after I put the weapon away, I was still harassed by the staff for "not wearing a shirt" which irritated me even more. I hate Katsucon's policies and I don't care who's fault it is- the point is, their policies are ridiculous. The staffers themselves might not be such bad people, but sheesh.

Heh, I'd be in favor of starting a "why Katsucon sucks" thread with Lilli. I wouldn't even be that sad if that convention simply disappeared, since something else would undoubtably spring up, and I'm just interested in going so that I can hang out with friends.

And, just to avoid trouble this year, I'm going to email the staff in advance and try to get approval on both the weapon I plan to bring (so I can KILL PEOPLE with it, obviously) and the new "shirtless" costume I'm going to wear. -_-

John Booty
01-15-2003, 11:26 AM
I was wondering why you weren't on this thread, Celine!

Haha. For those of you who don't know know about her "shirtless" costume last year, it was Judy from "Big Shot" on Cowboy Bebop. She *had* a flesh-colored shirt on and her arms and torso were 100% covered. And still the clueless staff claimed she was shirtless. They're so silly.

Well, at least this means they weren't staring at your chest TOO closely, I guess? Small silver lining?

Ayaka
01-15-2003, 02:57 PM
oO Uh-oh . . . I may be in trouble about being "shirtless" as well as having issues with my weapons?! XP Of course, my mother would tell me if they do I should just lean way over and ask if they have a problem with it or something . . . lol. (My mother should NOT tell me these kinds of things, but she does!)

Yui
01-15-2003, 05:51 PM
eee...I got harassed as not having a shirt on either by the roaming security idoits, too, for my Baiken costume. And I was wearing a flesh-colored shirt, too (and my arms and torso were covered, too.) I am so not even girl-shaped, so what were they worried about? (Eh, but I heard sad tales from two guys who were being troubled by the silly, undefined non-topless policy, so I guess everyone was attacked equally.) I had less trouble getting my huge, heavy, somewhat actually sharp sword for Dias checked out...everyone was -sure- it wouldn't get cleared...

Wow, sweet Lilli got mad on this thread...scarey O_o

Yui
01-15-2003, 06:09 PM
Most of the problems last Katsu had to do with drunks and people running around completely nude down the hallways in the middle of the night and people who couldn't play DDR due to stomping complaints going out and drawing on walls instead. People who were actually there for cosplay were well-behaived. All the people who were there for cosplay didn't have -time- to vandalize anything; we were all sewing or hot glueing the next costume and pretending to get a little sleep before the next photo op. It's all those weirdo non-cosplayers who are bored, perverted and non-creative who go out and be idiotic. Since they're the non-high-profile attendees, no one thinks to look out for their troubles. It is sadly the more-noticable cosplayer who -- understandably, but unfortunately -- gets all the attention.

Yui
01-15-2003, 06:25 PM
I keep thinking of additional thoughts...

At AX, to participate in the mini j-rock masquerade, cosplayers were actually carded. (This caught us off-guard...luckily that girl remembered us from the FLAVA board and just let us in...sorry, I didn't think to carry my ID in my wings.) I wasn't sure what the purpose of that was, as the audience wasn't carded to view, but I think it was some sort of attempt to make sure there was some level of responsibilty from the cosplayers. Perhaps some similiar kind of check-in could help out Kastu...as anyone with props has to stop by the desk anyway. Adults, in the very least, could enjoy some kind of benefit of the doubt that we won't be randomly attacking small children or beheading security personale (no matter how much some rude ones might deserve it ^_-*) If people over 21 are deemed old enough to consume alcohol (which I still don't think is old enough for most people) adults should certainly be allowed to tote about fake weaponry for the sake of art.

And yes, making accurate-looking prop weapons is difficult enough without further restricting the material choices. I don't specifically choose lethal componants or anything, but I do strive for "visual" accuracy. No real sharpened blades or anything, but maybe just some nice stable wood that isn't going to disintigrate in my hand. I've seen some very broken, floppy, dying props, and it's just sad. Personally, I'd never choose a character to cosplay that doesn't have an interesting prop...and yes, most of those props happen to be weapons, cuz that's just the nature of anime. And once I make my props, I protect them from harm...with my own body if necessary. The other thing is that some characters are just not as interesting without their prop -- it is a vital aspect to many costumes. There are indeed some characters were props are not a major aspect, but do not say "oh, just go without it." Basically, cosplay for me is an excuse to show off my cool acessories, and the clothing is secondary. I can't handle the stress or competition of the masqerade, so hall cosplay is my only forum for that.

John Booty
01-15-2003, 06:29 PM
I miss you, Yui! It was nice meeting you a couple of times at various cons. Someday you need to school me on J-rock some more.

I see what you mean about the cosplayers being more high-profile and thus being the "lightning rod" for crackdowns but it just shows you how clueless they can be. The idea of cosplayers starting trouble is so ridiculous. Like we're gonna go start fights in costumes we spent hundreds of dollars and hours on. Like we're gonna vandalizre stuff while wearing elaborate and easily-identifiable costumes!

"Ma'am, what did the vandals look like?"
"Well officer, there was a ROBOT and a SAMURAI and a JAPANESE schoolgirl!"
"Thank you ma'am, that narrows it down a bit"

Ayaka
01-15-2003, 07:33 PM
Sounds like even with fabric across the front I'm going to get harassed. I don't know what to do, adding the fabric is okay if that's what they need . . . but if even that is going to piss off the staff, does that mean I need to switch costumes?

I'm really upset by this, more so than the weapons policy (though I do have a problem with it, too), because it is NOT in print anywhere on the site (I just double-checked). All they say is that it must meet normal standards of decency and legality. Celine was DECIDELY decent (I'm sure you were as well, Yui). I admit that I'm not sure what they mean by "partial nudity" . . . but, I still don't see how they have a right to be whiny about someone's costume; either you tell them they can't wear it, which must be on the basis of WRITTEN rules that are POSTED before the con, or you should keep your mouth shut. What did they say to you guys?

John Booty
01-15-2003, 07:45 PM
What's your costume, Ayaka? Apologies if you mentioned it already and I somehow missed it.

Ayaka
01-15-2003, 08:00 PM
Oh yeah, sorry, would be relevant to post a pic; though it is a bit off topic. Ayane from Dead or Alive 2 (which is somewhat famous for its fan service).

Nietsche
01-15-2003, 08:38 PM
I'm sure the partial nudity thing was more due to location...
I am sure skimpier outfits have graced previous Katsucons without trouble...just don't go outside in them, you might freeze your ass off...I was inside with my Zero costume on and I was still shivering....

SailorAndromeda
01-15-2003, 08:44 PM
Yeah about the props...my husband plans on wearing his Link costume again... What's Link without his Master Sword and Hylian shield? We wanted to participate in the hall cosplay thing, but I dunno...
I hope plastic daggers are ok! I might poke an eye out! ><
And what will they say about a backless dress?

Yui
01-15-2003, 09:35 PM
Booty: Since you keep bringing it up, I guess you deserve my crash course j-rock appreciation lecture. I don't aim to push j-rock on anyone, but when they actually ask for it, I can only oblige. Hehe, guess I'll have to bring along the Malice Mizer movies for starters. ^_- Haha...that's one thing they can't take away from us. If I can't pummel someone with a foam sword, then I'm gonna fry their brain with strange videos of silly Japanese boys. What's going to cause more long-term damage?

Sciguy
01-15-2003, 09:43 PM
yes, it will be really cold there. One would not want to go outside in that Ayane outfit. In fact, I think that they're supposed to get several inches of snow tonight.

Yeah, Link needs his sword and shield! Although, it'd be funny if he were to pull out his Biggoron sword claim check if he were asked about his missing sword.

Yui
01-15-2003, 09:51 PM
Nietsche: Security wouldn't dare bother you anyway. "Oh, it's you! Sorry, Mr. cosplay god, sir! Didn't mean to intrude. Do whatever you want. Carry on. Can we hold the Carro plushie?" Someday, I'll be as cool as you n Lilli and then security won't bother me either. Though yeah, if they did have sense, (which we determined already the unlikelihood of,) they'd know peeps wouldn't really run around in February weather really topless. Unless they're really dedicated. In that case, they deserve to. ^_-

(Has anyone guessed your lyrics yet btw? That's been bugging me. I know what song it is ^_^ Wow...my first fansub ever...)

Celine
01-15-2003, 10:29 PM
Ayaka, your Ayane is perhaps not quite as exciting as my flesh-exposing costume for this year: http://meteo.rydia.net/cosplay/Marjoly.jpg

And if they hassle me, whatever. The only part of my body that isn't going to be 100% covered is the chest. And you know what? I see people wearing shirts that show more skin than I will be showing. Blah. I will be taped and wired in. Nobody can possibly be offended unless they think I'm really wearing a thong... in which case, they're as retarded as they were last year... ^^ blargh. I say we hold a strike at the con for all the "skimpy" cosplays out there, if they complain! (just kidding, hehe) XD

Ayaka
01-15-2003, 10:50 PM
Yeah, but then we'd probably have to stand outside, you know, to form a picket line . . . and then we would be COLD and they would be laughing. Of course, I bet we'd get a lot of support from the con-goers. ;P

Wahahaha, nice, Celine! Are you gonna hot glue yourself into that? oO; Not to mention that it looks like you could behead people with that collar, lol. I've realized I have another skimpy costume for Katsu, which I hadn't thought about (well it's less racy than Ayane, I guess). I guess I'll buy at least a flesh-colored top which I'll be needing anyway for crossplay, and have it on hand in case there are issues. And if they give either of us flak, we shall teach them that Naga is not the only half-dressed woman they should fear. :D

Yui
01-15-2003, 11:10 PM
I wonder if they could use actual cosplayers as volunteers at the security booth. I'd do it. At the very least, I'd wanna get everybody together who was turned away from the peace-bonding OK and go get their exclusive photos. "Ok, everybody who has dangerous articles, please visit me privately up in the room. X_x"

Yui
01-15-2003, 11:13 PM
Hey Celine you got guts! If you ever happen to go to ACen, there just might be a Crowdia, Gao and Myao around, too...

Nietsche
01-16-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Yui
(Has anyone guessed your lyrics yet btw? That's been bugging me. I know what song it is ^_^ Wow...my first fansub ever...)


Noone's guessed it yet..unless they did it in a thread that I didn't go into..which could happen given that I don't read everyone's post....
And it's such an easy one too!

John Booty
01-16-2003, 11:45 AM
Okay, it's cool that you guys have strong opinions and I think most of us are in agreement. Now, have you mentioned them to the Katsuon staff? The chairman has said he's actively looking for feedback.

Chairman: Keith Mayfield
chairman@katsucon.org

Vice-Chairman; Operations:Colette Fozard
colette@katsucon.org

Main Convetion Security: Rafe Gegenheimer, Jasen Stengel
security@katsucon.org

I'd suggest sending a quick note to these three addresses telling them what you think. My impression of the Katsucon staff is that they're a bit out of touch with what cosplayers want from a con, but they're willing to listen (the chairman urged me to have people write him). I really do think that if you drop them a note, it will make a difference.

If we don't take the time to e-mail them, well, nothing will change. We've all spent some time bitching here, now spend just a few more seconds to let them know what's up. ;-)

John Booty
01-16-2003, 11:51 AM
Wow, Tania. Okay, that costume IS daring. Need a anti-fanboy security escort? XD I can be bribed with food or costume help.

Then again maybe I'm not the best choice!

Yui
01-16-2003, 05:28 PM
I took one of those little online polls a while ago, and appearantly if I was a L'arc song, I'd be Blurry Eyes. ^_^ One of the few lyrics I'd actually recognize written out.

And thanks for the e-mail info Booty. I'd very much like to write them -- so they do know that some of us aren't violent, reckless minors. ^_- I think it might be a good idea for a cosplayer to volunteer anyway so the other cosplayers feel more comfortable and better represented.

Nietsche
01-16-2003, 05:44 PM
I suppose it means I have to change the lyrics...hohum....

Celine
01-16-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by John Booty
Need a anti-fanboy security escort? XD I can be bribed with food or costume help.

I know you, John! So I know that while you aren't a super effective bodyguard, you can still look imposing. XD Anybody who harasses me when I'm wearing that, I'll just beat up when I'm wearing one of my other costumes... hehehe.

Ayaka- tape and wire! Hot glue sounds too painful... o_o I should get pics with you in your Ayane. We can be the skimpy brigade of doom!

Yui- ACen... I dunno... ^^ But maybe, if the rest of the villains will be there! ^_^ I've yet to see anybody get more than two of them together.

kelldar
01-16-2003, 06:41 PM
Hm I was going to bring my Urd costume, but after reading about how hassled some of you guys were last year I guess I'd better not ><;

Ayaka
01-16-2003, 08:20 PM
Bring it, Kell, I'm doing mine. Like I said, they shall fear us! (In a totally not-getting-kicked-out-of-the-con way . . .)

Celine - I was kidding lol. Hot glue . . . XO Not that tape sounds like that much fun either . . . Skimpy brigade of doom? lol awesome :D I definitely have to get pics of you, anyways!

Yui
01-19-2003, 02:41 AM
Well, I did e-mail them just now. I finally had a moment (translates into one hour as my e-mail writing goes) to sufficiently point out the issues intelligently. I explained what hall cosplay means to us and summerized some accounts of last year's attitudes. I told them that I supported the peace-bonding, as it -is- their con, but urged for a more universal, less waffly judging of props. I also mentioned that there are so many other cons to choose from nowadays that they can't afford to alienate cosplayers. I then suggested the ID carding possibilty, the need for a non-masquerade monitored photo shoot (for all the black-listed cosplays...at least they'll get their pictures ^_^) and in perhaps getting some cosplayers themselves to volunteer some time on security. Um...I think by default I nominated myself. Anyone else care enough to join me? ^_^*

John Booty
01-19-2003, 11:30 AM
Glad you wrote to them, Yui! I think it really will make a difference if they get a lot of feedback.

Missy
01-19-2003, 05:03 PM
This really doesn't suprise me. I know the con has good reasons.. But last year my friend got introuble for a prop made of out cardboard.

Sadly is gonna be pretty pointless in arguing with them. Everyone should just go and try to have fun.

John Booty
01-19-2003, 06:35 PM
It's not a matter of "arguing" with them. I think they really want feedback. If they get enough feedback, things will probably get revised a little!

Yui
01-19-2003, 07:37 PM
That's exactly what I was aiming for - not arguing, but interacting. I said that it would be "mutally positive to both attendees and staff" if some of us cosplayers ourselves were to volunteer our time to let all the cosplayers know that there were those looking out for their interests. I'd totally be up to donating some of my day (especially Friday morning, I'm thinking, would be best), but I just didn't want to be the only one of us there. All I do at cons is loiter around in my costumes it seems anyway, so I may as well be looking out for the public good at the same time. I think such cooperation would be really good pr for our oft misunderstood hobby here.

Anyway, I'll post the response from them when I get it.

Basic Beecicchi
01-21-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by John Booty
Of course the two policies are the same when it comes to things like REAL GUNS AND SWORDS but honestly, that's kind of a no-brainer. Even *I* don't think actual katana-wielding 13 year-olds hopped up on sugar and no sleep are a good idea!


Ironically, not everyone is as intellegent as you are. Or as intellegent as the rest of the forum regs.

Some people just like to take their chances....and eventually ruin it for everyone else. Generation after Generation.

[Note : i completely forgot the additional pages. Sorry 'bout that.]

makonurikoryoko
01-21-2003, 03:52 AM
XD wah! So glad I couldnt sleep and started reading this thread. First of all I cant wait to see everyones costumes! Very sexy choice Celine ^^ Also though last year at Katsucon, I made friends with this horribily sweet girl dressed as Belldandy and the staff yelled at her for not wearing shoes! So, it isnt just "skimpy" clothes...
Also on weapons... last year my friends and I did a big Lodoss War group and my guy friends made this awsome swords daggers and staffs out of pine for evryone, and when we got in they of coursed snatched us off to security to check out stuff and they forbid it all. I thought Wood could at least keep his dagger.. cause it really was nothing compared to the HUGE ax my other friend had.. I can see ho w that wouldnt go through... but the dagger was really small... We also thought that the swords from pine woul be ok but they said that the wood was just too hard -_-So yeah, just adding in my stories ^^


and I definitly agree with Booty that the scary unwashed Otaku are the scariest most harmful thing at a con... especially if they glomp you ::shudders::
Maybe cons should look into personal hygeine policies...
"Im sorry sir but you're too disgustingly dirty to attend, try a shower and come back later"

kitty_neko
01-21-2003, 07:11 AM
i've been following this thread for a bit now, but i havent said anything yet. i just think that the weapons/costume policies are a bit... too much? yes, i can understand the whole metal thing and real weapons (if they allowed them in then i'd be AFRAID) but swords that arent metal and clearly have no blade should be allowed in.... atleast thats what i think....

but the whole issue with skimpy costumes bothers me... i checked the website and it says no nudity or 'partial nudity'. now i know that no ones going nekkid (lol) but they dont really tell you how THEY define partial nudity. and they shouldnt have problems with people not wearing shoes... thats just silly :P

>>>and I definitly agree with Booty that the scary unwashed Otaku are the scariest most harmful thing at a con... especially if they glomp you ::shudders::
Maybe cons should look into personal hygeine policies...
"Im sorry sir but you're too disgustingly dirty to attend, try a shower and come back later"


hehe, thats a good idea... maybe there should be people handing out soap XD

Yui
01-24-2003, 04:20 PM
...Well...Well...nothing to report on any revised con policies. I forwarded my mail to all three of the addresses you provided Booty, but no one has responded yet -- not even a confirmation or a thank-you for submitting input. Oh...I hope I didn't overwhelm them or anything. O_o I thought I was quite respectable and coherent for once, too.

I just don't think many people underdstand about the hall-cosplay issues, yet. Ah well, perhaps if there is to be no official decree from Katsu staff, maybe some of us should take matters into our own hands...I think I'll be hanging out nearby the security desk in case anyone's costumes or props get rejected, and I'll be able to get some photos of them at least if no one else will get to see them.

I really hope the change of venue will solve most of the problems, tho...

John Booty
01-24-2003, 04:25 PM
Aw. I jumped right to this thread, hoping that you got a reply from them.

That sucks that they didn't write you back. Regardless, though, I think that if they get enough negative feedback about their policies they will change or at least be modified!

And if this Katsucon is messed-up I'm NEVER going back. But I think they'll be improved this year. That's why I'm giving them a chance this year. ^^;

sailor-moon
01-24-2003, 04:29 PM
the didnt give me a problem at katsu last year with my cosmos staff, yout think they will this year*.* i need this staff, or the cosmos cosplay is useless really^^

Ashe
01-24-2003, 06:07 PM
Just wrote Katsu myself, letting them know this was my frist Katsucon and that I was really disappointed to hear that they might not let me carry my Halconnen. I mean really - Katsu is one of the few cons that actually has official _prizes_ for hall cosplay- and they want to take peoples props away? It makes no sense.
They could at least have a "props okay" zone - where people could take pics with their weapons and secutiry could keep an extra tight handle on things. Hopefully they won't be too strict..

John Booty
01-24-2003, 07:00 PM
It's so good to hear you're all writing and letting them know. Good work. ^^

Celine
01-24-2003, 08:33 PM
Oooh, a "props okay" zone... I like that idea... ^_^ They can watch all the cosplayers and realize that we aren't going to hurt anyone. We just like having our props.

If they do complain about prop weapons, you can always get pics outside (but for the bad weather... heh) or in your own room.

Kamui Motoaki
01-24-2003, 10:55 PM
Last Katsu. . .they tried to Kick me out for my Gunblade. . .
they said it had something to do with 9/11 and that i was carrying a "gun" along with a "bladed weapon". . . so some friends hid me in thier car. . and i changed into my Tidus in the middle of the frezzing parking lot. . i walked around that con with the hood around my head. .lol. .

sailor-moon
01-24-2003, 11:20 PM
lol^o^ i heard about that....

Ashe
01-25-2003, 07:20 PM
LoL, yeah, I might try the sign. I was actually thinking if they won't let me have it I'll carry the little tiny one from my doll instead. Lets see them complain about that =p .

Eurobeat King
01-25-2003, 07:46 PM
Since you're going to bring it, Ashley, remember what I suggested for you to do at Katsu ;): get into one of the glass elevators, (your Halcannon will prolly fill up an entire one) and take the elevator ALL the way down to the 2nd lower level in the HYATT. (I think it's the LL button?) Do not get off at the lobby level and then try to take the 2 escalators to get there, as you'll clearly be spotted by security, hotel staff, AND the tons of con-goers who will try and stop to take your picture.. heehee It's best to go to the 2nd lower level, and then head for the open area outside of main events (where the cosplay.com gathering will take place) and just stay there. Lay the cannon out like you did at Ohayo, and let the people come to you for pictures. :) That should be acceptable to staff since you're not blocking any paths and you're not aiming it at anyone.. :thumbsup:

HuongStar
01-26-2003, 05:04 PM
Katsucon Security Staff previously had a problem with a plastic lightsaber....does this bode well for cosplayers? -_- From the sounds of it, I will try to get clearance for my Keyblade via Katsu staff beforehand. Would an inflatable bat also be cause for worry if the lightsaber created such a ruckus?

Ashe
01-26-2003, 06:40 PM
I got a very nice email back from Katsu- telling me that the problem was the VA silhouette law - which is all well and good, there's really nothing they can do about that. But it still doesn't explain their reluctance to let people carry things like staves and bokken - you could beat someone just as soundly with a decent umbrella...

John Booty
01-27-2003, 10:58 AM
The silhouette law thing is getting a bit overblown. The truth is that in ANY state, a cop can basically shoot you if they think you have a gun. As long as they can reasonably prove you were wielding a real gun in an unsafe manner. Virginia went ahead and explicitly wrote this down in their lawbooks, but for all practical purposes this is true in any state... look at that incident in NYC where Amadou Diallo was shot 50 times or something because they thought he was pulling out a gun when he was pulling out his wallet. There is/was no "silhouette law" in NYC but the cops were all acquitted.

Way back in the 80's I remember hearing about an incident where cop was investigating a possibly burglary in a dark house and a kid with a cap gun got shot by a cop. As any normal kid did, I had loads of toy guns, some of which looked extremely real. Back in the 80's, toy guns you bought at stores were basically REPLICAS of real gun models. I had M-16s, revolvers, MAC-10s, AK-47s, and such. Well, my mom heard that story about the kid getting shot and lectured me about never waving those guns at cops, even as a joke.

And you know what? Common sense prevailed. I never waved those guns at cops and I never got shot. Worked out pretty well. Why can't the same thing apply at a convention? Just use some common sense with your toy gun. Have some sense and don't brandish the toy guns in shady ways in dimly-lit areas where it could possibly be mistaken for something threatening.

I really think that the world has lost its mind. Whatever happened to common sense? We're talking about /the possibility of cops opening fire on people walking around in silly anime costumes/. I mean, isn't it OFFENSIVE that I can't walk around with a toy gun for fear of being shot by a cop? Isn't that concept incredibly wrong?

The very fact that we're even discussing this is more ridiculous than I have words to express. How did the country get to this point?

Guns have been a part of America ever since the first Europeans landed here. A hundred years ago, they didn't even HAVE gun laws. Kids in most parts of the country learned how to use guns as part of growing up. You never heard about mass shootings or kids shooting kids in school.

Therefore, I conclude that guns themselves are not the problem, and that the country has simply gone mad in recent years. No, I really don't care all THAT much about my right to walk around with a toy gun, it's just the principle.

This disjointed rant has been brought to you by Monday Morning Shittiness (tm) and Lots of Caffeine (tm). We now return you to your regularly-scheduled thread. ^^;;;;;;

edit: i changed everything around.

Jibrille
01-27-2003, 12:18 PM
hrmmm... "shirtless"....

and to think i am wearing Kanoe to this con.

and mediator has the insane high slits on the skirt.
wow i cant wait to possibly get shit from the con people. yay.


i had my Trunks sword peacebound 2 years ago, but last con they didnt peacebind my stuff.
gee... how consistent. ><

pookie-kun
01-27-2003, 01:03 PM
Well, I just wrote an organized and polite letter to Mr. Mayfield concerning the weapons policy.. and I hope it helps them even a little bit to revise it. I copied it here, so that other people can use it as a model and send in a letter themselves. I just ask that you do not copy it word for word :)

Mr. Mayfield,

While I am not a long-time cosplayer, I am planning on attending the Katsucon convention this winter in Arlington, and am fairly active in the cosplay community. While I do not have any weapons included in my costume repertoire this year, I understand that Katsucon's weapons policy is rather strict, especially concerning fake, futuristic looking 'gun' props, and wooden and fiberglass/plexiglass/bondo sword props.

I understand Katsucon's concert about Virginia's Sillouette law, I cannot believe that Virginia police would be concerned about a weapon that looked somewhat like, well for example, the two props in this photograph: http://images.cosplay.com/showphoto.php?photo=15361&papass=&sort=1&thecat=998

My view on gun-like props is that they should be examined by trained convention staff, and then peace-bonded with orange peace-bond straps, which should be visible at all times. It is also my belief that cosplayers that -do- need to have a gun-like prop peace-bonded should know that it needs it, and go to convention staff first-off and have it done. If you post a sign at the entrance to the convention area asking cosplayers with gun-like props to get it peacebonded, most cosplayers will comply I am sure.

As for swords, sword-like replicas, sword models, and sword props.. I can understand completely the rules about live steel - indeed, it is even local law most places that you cannot carry around a live steel blade longer than - I believe it is - four inches.

However, requiring sword-like replicas and props to be made out of cardboard, foam core, and balsawood is rather unnacceptable in my opinion. Most of the best sword props are made from fiberglass and/or automotive bondo, as well as some other materials (these are simply the most common for cosplayers to make their props out of). These props cost upwards of one hundered dollars in both materials and labor-hours to create. While they might be big, a cosplayer who has invested such time and money in a prop will not swing it around like a fool, will not attack people with it, and will generally keep it safe.

These are the weapons rules that many other conventions, including Otakon and Animazement, have concerning wepaons. They are the most fair, and the safest for everyone involved. Part of the fun in cosplay for a lot of people is making realistic but unusable props of their characters' weapons. Taking away their ability to create these props with a material that would not last the road trip to the convention, much less the convention itself, takes away a small bit of the fun involved with posing for photographs, participating in costume contests, et cetera. Some costumes are relatively simple, but have incredibly difficult to make prop weapons - and to judge the costume without the prop in any sort of contest is biased, in my opinion.

Thank you for taking the time to review and respond to my concerns, Mr. Mayfield. I hope my letter has had some impact on you and the Katsucon staff.

Sincerely,
(my name)

John Booty
01-27-2003, 01:11 PM
That's a really excellent letter. I think that your letter is a really good example of what to write to Katsucon. Not only did you note the problem, you proposed a solution as well, which is totally key. That's what elevates a letter like that above mere bitching and makes it a real valid solution.

SailorAndromeda
01-28-2003, 12:01 PM
Whoa wait...we're not allowed to be barefoot? Well that poses a problem for my Chii costume. I sincerely hope that they change the policy a bit. I'm really concerned about the props that my husband and I have made for his Link costume. I wrote security awhile ago, and got a very nice response. However, they said the sword wouldn't be allowed, but that the shield would. Ok, the shield is heavier and thus MORE dangerous than the sword. We're bringing both anyway and having checked by security there. Just in case though, we're making a non-working hookshot and bow (no arrows). But the bow is made from white pine as well. So now I'm worried that they won't allow that either, even though it's not a sword or staff. I realize that yes, they are "just props", but honestly, would you even look at Link with just his outfit? Would you even recognize him? The props are what make his costume so good, IMO, and I don't know about entering the hall cosplay now. [/rant]
So I guess I'll need to try and think of a solution for shoes, just in case ^^

pookie-kun
01-28-2003, 12:32 PM
Booty: I didn't do well in AP English for nothing ;)

Celine
01-28-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by SailorAndromeda
So I guess I'll need to try and think of a solution for shoes, just in case ^^

Whoo, I feel your pain about the prop thing... and I'd really like to see Link with all of his items! ^_^ I hope they don't hassle you too much. And there is no way they are going to make me put my prop away. It has no sharp edges. It doesn't look dangerous. It's wood. Grr.

As for the shoes, I believe that dance companies make slippers that are flesh-toned and very thin. You might want to try looking around for those, just in case!

John Booty
01-28-2003, 12:43 PM
What if you have furry feet? Do you still have to wear shoes? WHAT ABOUT THE HOBBITS?

*thinks maybe he drank too much coffee today*

twentystitches
01-28-2003, 12:48 PM
X.x @ prop rules. I seriously hope I'm not going through all this trouble with my Beatrix sword just to have it not be allowed into the con. --;; Otakon had no problems with weapons, I carried around a six foot glaive completely made out of wood. I got compliments from staff. Ugh, where do they put the peacebonding tape anyway? I hope it's not smack dab on the blade...do you think I can ask them to put it on the handle?

I would write a letter, but I'm not nearly as articulate as those who have written one and I'd probably just degenerate the e-mail into " You suck dude"ness.

pookie-kun
01-28-2003, 12:52 PM
usually the peacebonding is locking plastic straps. They're a plastic strip with a box on the end, you put one end into the box, pull it tight, clip the excess strip off. It won't come off without a hobby knife or a sharp pair of scisors.

John Booty
01-28-2003, 12:53 PM
Write them anyway. Cut-and-paste Pookie's letter and say, "Yeah, what he said :P"

I'm bummed about these rules. I'm hoping they'll be flexible. I think that a deluge of non-flaming, thoughtful emails will convince them to reconsider a bit, if they get the impression that their policies are massively unpopular. From my exchange with the chairman, he seemed to be totally unaware that the policies were pissing people off, so perhaps once he knows how we feel he'll reconsider a bit. ^^;

edit: Last year's peacebonding consisted of ribbons they simply tied to things, if I remember correctly!

Rosiel
01-28-2003, 12:58 PM
So I am being a lazy bum and not reading through all the pages but... to those who have contacted Katsucon, does it seem like security will be tougher this year as opposed to last year?

Specifically, I was thinking about my Yuber swords. (You can see them here. (http://images.cosplay.com/showphoto.php?photo=18068&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500)) Yuber without his swords is, well, myself in a braid and a black suit... which isn't much of a cosplay, so I was wondering if there is a hope in hell I would be able to carry them around with me... and if it's worth trying to contact (Read: beg and whimper) security about it.

Of course they are not balsa wood (balsa wood breaks if you look at is wrong)... but being rather thin they are not bludgeoning weapons either. X__X

John Booty
01-28-2003, 01:10 PM
Rosiel: Frankly, no. There's nothing to suggest they'll be more lenient.

However, the chairman did say he was were considering revising the policies, and encouraged people to write to him. Whether he was sincere or not, who knows? But people are writing him, so perhaps there's a chance.

sailor-moon
01-28-2003, 03:20 PM
wait, so there only kinda "iffy" about props that look like weapons? or would they kinda yell at me for this^^

http://www.itsumademo.net/_misc/staff.jpg
the star-burst on the top is kinda pointy

PockyDarcy
01-30-2003, 05:28 PM
Yah, I hated weapon's policy last year...EVERYTHING had to get peacebonded and checked out by a person on staff and they put this queer pink ribbon on the supposed weapon. My boyfriend had a staff with a plushy top on it. Staff hunted him down and made him get the ribbon. My friend with Paper lanterns used for a shampoo costume had to get it checked out by staff. Katsucon is one of those cons that the staff is all on their high horses. Unlike other great cons that I have gone to, they were very unorganized and pushy about safy regulations. Right on, John for standing up for your cosplaying rights at conventions! ^_^

pookie-kun
01-31-2003, 01:25 AM
That's not even peace bonding! >.< that's pink ribbon.. peace bonding is something that's supposed to be hard to fake, and hard to take off. grr

Yui
01-31-2003, 02:04 AM
yeah, and I believe real, real peace-bonding involves somehow wiring swords into sheathes so they cannot be drawn and such. But both of those, ribbons and straps, are easily faked &/or traded amongst those with props. My store sells both those locking box wire ties as well as flagging tape in many various colors and both are mega-cheap. I think almost all hardware stores and probably some craft stores do as well. Anyone could go out and buy facsimiles of peace-bonding.

If the staff is serious about checking in props, they need some kind of system with a poleroid of your prop pasted onto the back of your badge with a check-off stamp from the desk on it. That'd be effective and accurate, and there's no way the hall security could disagree so much with the desk people then. But, no reason to give them even more to fuss about.

But who knows? Perhaps they'll have researched other cons and repent this year. Or at least heeded the suggestions all of you great people have been sending in. (They don't seem to like me very much, for I never received a reply; I am saddened.) I guess you never know until you get there.

::crosses fingers. & toes.::

SailorAndromeda
01-31-2003, 04:18 PM
It's funny you should mention that... about it being cheap and easy to replicate. I was saying (jokingly) to my hubby "Maybe we should just peacebond it ourselves". That's what's going to start happening if they don't ease up a bit. Guess I'm not the only one thinking that, which could be dangerous in the mind of the wrong otaku ^^

Yui
01-31-2003, 09:51 PM
Whee...all you peeps with concerns on the 'iffy' parts of your ensembles, check out the Katsu photo shoot gathering sticky thread up there. 3pm Saturday unless anyone has a better idea.
Thank you for your time, and don't ditch the props just yet. ^_-

(And yes, there -was- faking of the peacebonding last year. I was witness to passing around like three ribbons between 15 or so people throughout the various costumes. My props actually were checked in by security -- mostly because I was curious as to just how bad it could be, but many people were scared to even go to the desk for fear they might be turned down. So they just borrowed ribbons from other people when they weren't using their props. That's why that system is completely ineffective.)

kuno
02-04-2003, 01:25 AM
Reply to him that you will get your friends with your fake guns and kidnap him..then throw him in a low security prision and have him azz-raped so he'll be nicer to con-goers next time... lol .. it just sounds like he's bitter.

John Booty
02-04-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by kuno
Reply to him that you will get your friends with your fake guns and kidnap him..then throw him in a low security prision and have him azz-raped so he'll be nicer to con-goers next time... lol .. it just sounds like he's bitter.

Well, if that doesn't convince him we're safe, responsible people then I don't know what will.

Yui
02-04-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by John Booty
Well, if that doesn't convince him we're safe, responsible people then I don't know what will.


Yep. All our difficultic diplomatic negotations for naught.

I think we may have to let our issues settle for this year. We've expressed ourselves as best we could in writing those e-mails, so now all we can do is prove to them our intentions by being on our best behavior at the con -- which is of course, our normal behavior, -right- guys?

And show up for the photoshoot :: plug plug :: ^_- (& Booty, if you help round up cosplayers for that, I'll bring you a special prize...hehe)


(Edit: there was a random scarey smilie in the middle there....whoops...I just took him out.)

Celine
02-04-2003, 10:47 PM
Hehe, see you all at that photoshoot. Hopefully, there will be no problems and the con staff will see that cosplayers aren't bad people! We just want our cool, non-threatening props.

John Booty
02-05-2003, 10:22 AM
::brandishes his cosplay-people-rounding-up lasso::

Lady_Sephiroth
02-05-2003, 09:32 PM
That's it. For shits and giggles, I'm going to bring colorguard saber and take it to security, just to see. None of my costumes need it (I bought it for my next costume) but now I am curious.

It's a plastic handle and the "blade" whatever is at the core is wrappeed with foamy stuff. the whole thing is taped with silver and black tape.

We'll see.

Schu
02-05-2003, 10:21 PM
I'm bringing my buster sword looking thing for Paine... I plan on mostly having it harnessed to my back in a sort of sling I made to match the costume (so my hands will be free). It's made out of a lightweight wood, but not quite balsa wood... with no actual edge, just rounded corners. My general recollection with weapons, is that if you don't wave them around or point them, staff generally leaves you alone. It worked for my laser guns for Rikku X-2 at Ohayocon (also, not hasseled about bikini top, now that I think about it).

I'm very worried about my sword, because Paine is just a bondagey-looking man-woman without her sword... I will take it through security I guess.

As for my stance on the policies, I would support a ban on wooden Bokkan, as most of the injuries/fighting involve them. I'm iffy about the bamboo shinai, but it might be decent, as they tend to be the culprits of stupidity.

As for prop weapons, I think they should just be checked in and given either a sticker with a signature and the weapon's description...? Or just go with the florescent tape. It can always be photoshopped out of your pictures...

And it's pretty easy to see why real swords and guns should not be allowed...

They should just think rationally about everything. It would make things for pleasant.

see you'll at katsu ^__^

Yui
02-05-2003, 10:36 PM
Oh, I'm sure you'll all check the official gathering sticky post up there, but just a notice that the outside photo shoot has been pushed back to 4 PM to give people adequate time to change from the official cp.com gathering.

Yes, and it will be interesting to hear their critique of random weapons...even ones that wouldn't even normally make an appearance. I'm bringing Dias's sword now (which was cleared without any issues last year) and I have made no alterations since last time, so I'm curious to see if it "passes" once again. This will be a good control example to see if the standards are remaining constant.

Ashe
02-06-2003, 12:24 PM
Pushed back to four- sweetness. We've got a lot of guns coming with us, be interesting to see if the Casull and Jackal (we've got the HK rip offs, which are solid... something) make it, and how they fare in comparison to the playstation guns we're thinking of bringing for Robin. Wasn't some kid getting shot because he was carrying a nintendo zapper the original problem? We shall see...

See most of you at 4 sat, I bet! ^_~

Yui
02-06-2003, 09:59 PM
See ya guys then. ^_^ Hey, maybe all participants shall receive a complimentary duck....yes...

Hmm. And Booty, for your gusto, you will get something completely worthless and totally squishy.

So if that's not mysterious enough an incentive....

Giant Alucard
02-07-2003, 09:43 AM
I bought the models off ebay but they haven't arrived yet . if they arrive in time you can be sure to see me with them in my alucard costume. If i cant bring them my costume will be very dull even thoguh i look (or will look) exactly like the character.

Would you happen to have any extra guns??? Maybe i can borrow a pair from you for the con since it looks like i may be getting mine afterward. I'll do almost anything to make sure i can really be in character. AIM if you need to.

Ashe
02-08-2003, 01:37 AM
Apparently the "department of homeland security" (are you sensing the mocking tone of voice?) just said that we're due for an attack within the next three weeks. This does not bode well for policies being interprested leniently.. crap. >.<

Ashe
02-08-2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Giant Alucard

Would you happen to have any extra guns???

Sorry, we've only got the one set, and if Ohio was any indication, I suspect that Tysons gonna have his hands wrapped around those things pretty tight.
That is, if they let us carry them at all. =/

Lilli
02-08-2003, 12:07 PM
^^; Well. Quite honestly. If you were robbing a bank, or lurking about in a dark alley, or staring at cop cars, making a slashing motion across your throat and yelling out "DIE PIGS DIE! BWAHAHAHAA!!!" while carrying that afore-mentioned nintendo zapper.... Then I could see there being a problem.

A bunch of brightly/extravagantly/skimpily-clad otaku in a large giggling group, taking photos... I don't think that scenario is going to cause a problem. IF it attracts any cop's or security attention... I think it'll be more a case of "What the heck are you guys doing? Hey, awesome costumes. Be careful with that *insert prop of doom here* okay?" type deal...

Ah... Sometimes my naivete is refreshing even to me :p

._. I don't think there's going to be a problem.

Giant Alucard
02-08-2003, 01:27 PM
Crap. Then i have to hope that my guns come in the next few days ( dont hold much hope on that).

rpd_girl
02-09-2003, 04:39 AM
wait!?! ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!??? That's insane! Man... I have a freakin plastic kid's shotgun (but it's the right size for me!) I got from freak'n K-Mart! I can't carry that!? It even makes a electronic cock and boom sound! I can't take that!? I can understand they might be skiddish about my cast iron Colt Ranger cap gun... cause it looks awesome'y real... but come on now... that's just silly!