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View Full Version : Competing in masqurades with commisioned costumes question


JoeBoeing
01-19-2003, 06:08 PM
Greetings all,

I'm wondering what you guys think of cos-players in commisioned costumes competing in Masquerades?

I know a lot on cons have rules against that but how would you feel if such cos-players had to compete at the profesional level and credit was given to the person who made it?

Would that be okay?

I'm not exactly sure what to think because I don't cos-play to compete and have never competed in a masquerade (I hope to this year).

I'm not going to comission a complete costume but I'm hoping that a friend will make me my staff for my Tsukasa costume and I'll be paying her with food money at AX. So, that is a comission.

Thanks and lets talk,

FRom,
Joe

Sakura
01-19-2003, 07:12 PM
If they were competing at the professional level and credit was going to the creator, then that's fine by me. I just hate it when people get their parents to make their costumes and then compete in the novice category... Unless it's a child we're talking about and they're in the kid's category. Then it's also fine ^^; I hope that makes sense.

Koumori
01-19-2003, 07:15 PM
No - the person who made the costume should be the person who gets the award. I know it's partly a modeling contest, but when you get down to it, it's about costuming.

And would you WANT to get an award for somebody else's work? I wouldn't.

Tenshi
01-19-2003, 07:47 PM
As long as the person in said costume is competing for performance ONLY, I don't see a problem.

arisuchan
01-19-2003, 08:22 PM
well... while it would be nice to know that I costume I made for someone else was good enough to win an award, I think that I would rather someone else who worked long hours on their own costume win the award. More should go into an award winning costume other than just putting it on. And well I don't think anyone here will support someone saying they made a costume when they didn't, so I'm not even going to go into how wrong that is.

Hikaruchan
01-19-2003, 10:36 PM
When I judge, I look more for costumes that person wearing made themselves. If its a commissioned costume, unless the creator is there and listed on the entry or the person wearing it is part of an official team for the creator - I really don't like seeing them in competition. A lot of costume contests totally ban commissioned costumes, but sometimes people lie to get on and that is so wrong.

soshi
01-19-2003, 11:29 PM
I think it's kinda rude, and I think most commissioners do, too. most of them have a "not for competition or masquerade" rule.

lying and saying you made the costume, even if you enter for preformance only, is really immoral, rude, and just.. wrong. and if you think no one's going to find out... think again. I've observed first hand what wearing someone else's work without, and even against their permission can do. it's not pretty. seamstresses have extremely interesting ways of extracting revenge. o_O;

RoseDuelist
01-20-2003, 12:24 AM
Since it is only a staff and it was from a friend I see no problem as long as she knows. If your entire costume was done by someone you don't know and shipped to you it's different.

XLainoftheWired
01-20-2003, 12:27 AM
I am totally against it. I have a friend who is in the upper class catagory of citizens, and he thinks hell just pay someone to make a Master Mage Clef outfit for him, and hell say he did it... I'm totally going to rat him out (dont get along with the wealthy too well)

Celine
01-20-2003, 12:33 AM
No. Even if it's for performance only, people are still going to see the costume on stage, and that will have an impact on judging. I'd prefer that people only compete in something they made. I also don't like the existence of the kid's category at all. However, no masquerade is ever going to make everybody happy, and I therefore don't enter. ^_^

peaseblossom
01-20-2003, 12:44 AM
I'd be totally pissed off if someone used a commission I did for them in a masquerade and claimed it as their own work. I put a lot of time and effort into each commission I do. It just wouldn't be right!

videogirlc
01-20-2003, 03:21 AM
I only think commisioned costumes are okay for hall cosplaying. For masquerades tehy are only okay for performance judging. I do know someone who comissioned a costume but asked the person they comisioned for them if it was ok for them to enter a masquerade competition. They said it was ok and they enetered. How do you feel if they asked you if they can eneter a masquerade in it.

Yumeko
01-20-2003, 03:26 AM
I'm indifferent about the whole topic.

You see, traditionally, the Masquarde is meant for cosplayers and/or cosplay groups to show off their handy work meaning costumes they made themselves.
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind a person going on stage in a costume I made for them...as long as they told where they don't claim it as their own creation.

I guess you can say this topic is a double edged sword

John Booty
01-20-2003, 04:05 AM
No. Absolutely not.

If you allow commissioned costumes in the masquerade competitions, then those competitions will become a matter of "who's got the most money to spend on commissions" instead of "who's the best costume-maker".

I can't sew at all, but if I had thousands of dollars I could pay some Hollywood peeps to create some costumes and probably win some masquerades, but what would be the point? :P Commissioned costumes get plenty of attention in hall cosplay; they don't belong in competitions.

ling_xiaoyu2002
01-20-2003, 04:36 AM
Very True JohnBooty....Comissioned costumes should not be allowed in the masqerade! Well my Battousai costume will only be for hall cosplay...it was comissioned...so nope...however my devil squall and micheal costume will be in the mini masquerade at least one of them at least....oh well....yeah you do have a point however.yup it's strictly probhibited if you want to see for your self here's the important info found at Anime Expo's website....

"Please note that costumes purchased or rented from a costume shop, designer direct, eBay, Yahoo Auctions, Yahoo Japan Auctions, Cospa, any other costume store or online resource, or any costumes made for you by a designer or seamstress, are prohibited. Ignoring this rule will negate your eligibility (and your group's eligibility; even if only one person in the group has a disqualified costume) to participate in the Masquerade and will also disqualify you for any performance and/or craftsmanship awards. Honesty is always the best policy; tell us if one person in your group made all the costumes. That person (as long as they are a member of your group) is still eligible for a Design Award (see the Awards section for more details). There are two notable exceptions to the "purchased or rented" policy:
Exception 1: "Found Item" costumes are allowed. This is basically a costume that was built by collecting various appropriate pieces from normal clothing stores and combining them together in a unique way (with or without sewing) to make a costume.
Exception 2: If the participant is in the Junior/Youth division, we completely understand if Mom and/or Dad (or a guardian) made or helped to make the costume. However, if this is the case, we would appreciate that Mom and/or Dad (or the guardian) be present at the Masquerade to answer the judges' questions and to supervise the participant.
Each contestant may present (wear) one and only one costume, or a group of people may wear one costume at the same time (i.e., a large costume that requires several people inside to move it). Multiple entries worn by the same person, or one entry worn by multiple people at different times, will not be allowed. No exceptions."


This info and more can be found at http://www.anime-expo.org/cosplay/masq_guidelines.html

and if you have a problem with these rules then you truely suck!!
(this does not apply to everyone, just a selective few that can get cocky and pretty snobby...gomenasai aeris...)

scandia
01-20-2003, 08:08 AM
I have a couple questions:

1) For a SKIT competition, would you penalize a cosplayer who is part of the skit if he/she wore a commissioned costume even if this is the ACTING competition and not the COSTUME one?

2) If a cosplayer bought a dress in a civilian commercial store that looks nearly identical to an anime character's outfit and did a couple minor alterations as well as add accessories, would you consider this still homemade?

Gothic_Lulu
01-20-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by scandia
I have a couple questions:

1) For a SKIT competition, would you penalize a cosplayer who is part of the skit if he/she wore a commissioned costume even if this is the ACTING competition and not the COSTUME one?

2) If a cosplayer bought a dress in a civilian commercial store that looks nearly identical to an anime character's outfit and did a couple minor alterations as well as add accessories, would you consider this still homemade?

1. This is something that I can really decide what I am for exactly. I think that entering a masqerade to be judged with a commission costume is wrong. I think that lying and saying that you made the contest is wrong. Skit wise though....it is sort of hard for me to say. I think that as long as you tell the people at was made and that you wish not to be judged in any competion and just want to be in the skit ONLY and they allow you it can be alright. What if you had a friend that wanted to cosplay badly in a group with you, and had no inttentions but to join you....then what? I think it depands on circumstances and also what the commsioner says. I would ask the cosplay people at the con or the commsioners before proposing such a thing because it would be contriversial.

2. Actually, I think that many people modify civilain clothes ( I could be wrong) as long as you can change enough of it it can be alright. I mean if you had a KH Squall costume, are you going to make his shirt, jacket, and pants by hand. Most people just find something simmilar and modify it.

Rosiel
01-20-2003, 10:17 AM
I'm with Celine on that one... even when it comes to presentation awards, the costume does make an impact and helps a skit look better. It's can be very hard to separate look from substance, and it would give an unfair advantage to a group/individual with a bought costume.

Having help is one thing, especially in groups as members do help each other make their costumes, but having someone else (not in your group) make most of the costume? No.

Keep those costumes for hall "display" only.

Gothic_Lulu
01-20-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Rosiel
I'm with Celine on that one... even when it comes to presentation awards, the costume does make an impact and helps a skit look better. It's can be very hard to separate look from substance, and it would give an unfair advantage to a group/individual with a bought costume.

Having help is one thing, especially in groups as members do help each other make their costumes, but having someone else (not in your group) make most of the costume? No.

Keep those costumes for hall "display" only.

Yeah, that makes sense, the more that I think about it....I guess it could impact the rest of the group....

soshi
01-20-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by scandia
I have a couple questions:

1) For a SKIT competition, would you penalize a cosplayer who is part of the skit if he/she wore a commissioned costume even if this is the ACTING competition and not the COSTUME one?


Yes, because like it was stated before, the costume makes an impact. If they went up in plain clothes and no costume, it would take away majorly from the skit.


2) If a cosplayer bought a dress in a civilian commercial store that looks nearly identical to an anime character's outfit and did a couple minor alterations as well as add accessories, would you consider this still homemade?

there's a word for this that I'm not remembering.. piece-melding? something like that. most cons allow those sort of costumes, but some don't. I seem to recall there being a huge discussion about it on the AX board a few years ago - I don't remember over what, maybe it got banned from the masq. I'd have to check (and I'm too lazy right now =P).

but even if you peice meld a costume, you're doing more work than you would comissioning a costume. you're going out and searching for what you need and buying it yourself, and then doing your own handywork to fix it. for a comissioner, you just hand over money and measurements. not that there's anything wrong with that - not everyone can sew. Lord knows *I* can't. x_X; but I don't compete in masqs, so.. no one cares.

the easy solution to all this is if you didn't make the costume yourself just don't enter the masq. =P I never understood what was the big deal anyway - it just enforces the already competitave nature that exists in cosplay. I've seen sooo many drama-battles over those things, it's rediculous. >_<;

Hikaruchan
01-20-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by scandia
I have a couple questions:

1) For a SKIT competition, would you penalize a cosplayer who is part of the skit if he/she wore a commissioned costume even if this is the ACTING competition and not the COSTUME one?

Sometimes in judging, you have people tied for judging. If skits are tied, the judges then may go to costume presentation to determine final winner. So, that is why wouldn't want a commissioned costume there.


2) If a cosplayer bought a dress in a civilian commercial store that looks nearly identical to an anime character's outfit and did a couple minor alterations as well as add accessories, would you consider this still homemade?

Wouldn't be homemade, would be piece-mealed. Not as good as personally making, but above a commissioned costume as hopefully a little effort was put into it. A lot of competitions will allow piece-meal where commissioned costumes frowned upon.

Ranma Saotome
01-20-2003, 02:35 PM
And on a side note...

I've heard stories of cosplayers who have passed off commissioned costumes as thier own, and the judges who are examing the costume asking them questions about how they made it and they know nothing. Sad ain't it. I mean, just fess up, there's no harm in doing so, right?

I remember in my own experiences with my Ranma costume. I've said that this was a piece-modded costume, and that me and my friend's mother sewed on the yellow frogties.

psythe
01-20-2003, 03:10 PM
If I was to commission a costume, and I AM going to as one I want to do is far beyond my skills, I would totally not enter the masquerade.

I feel the masquerade is for people who pour their OWN energy into their costumes, and take time out of their OWN schedules to make them.

Also, I would think it completely unfair to the costumer who made your gorgeous costume to not be given credit. I mean come on, yeah you paid for it, but it's their livelihood and you should help them out by telling people who made your costume, so that they can attain more business ^_^v

In short, keep the commissioned costumes to 'hall cosplay' and make sure to give credit where credit is due. ^^v

Just my 2 cents.

peaseblossom
01-20-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by videogirlc
I only think commisioned costumes are okay for hall cosplaying. For masquerades tehy are only okay for performance judging. I do know someone who comissioned a costume but asked the person they comisioned for them if it was ok for them to enter a masquerade competition. They said it was ok and they enetered. How do you feel if they asked you if they can eneter a masquerade in it.

I'm okay if they ask me and I am certain they won't lie and say they made it. I would want them to make a point of mentioning that they commissioned the costume and who made it. But I still think I would have an overall bad feeling about it.

peaseblossom
01-20-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by psythe
If I was to commission a costume, and I AM going to as one I want to do is far beyond my skills, I would totally not enter the masquerade.

I feel the masquerade is for people who pour their OWN energy into their costumes, and take time out of their OWN schedules to make them.

Also, I would think it completely unfair to the costumer who made your gorgeous costume to not be given credit. I mean come on, yeah you paid for it, but it's their livelihood and you should help them out by telling people who made your costume, so that they can attain more business ^_^v

In short, keep the commissioned costumes to 'hall cosplay' and make sure to give credit where credit is due. ^^v

Just my 2 cents.

Psythe: You are a good man! I totally feel the way you just described.

John Booty
01-20-2003, 06:19 PM
What about separate masquerade competitions for commissioned costumes? Maybe that would be a cool idea.

Honestly I've never really been into masquerades, though. I think walking through the halls, seeing the costumes up close, talking to the cosplayers, taking pictures, etc is much much much more fun than sitting in an auditorium and watching things from a distance.

Yay hall cosplay!!

Nietsche
01-20-2003, 06:27 PM
Ditto on that John Booty!

In fact there should be impromptu hall performances every now and again for extra flavour...? I hear it's done every now and again...
One time during registration for OTakon 2001, Lilli's dad put on a good ninja fight with another ninja....it was highly entertaining and many thought it was an actual otakon planned performance...

Celine
01-20-2003, 07:52 PM
>What about separate masquerade competitions for commissioned costumes? Maybe that would be a cool idea.

They had this "fashion show" thing at AX last year (and this year? I don't remember) which allowed cosplayers to walk across a stage in as many costumes as they wanted. Photographers could gather and grab pics as the cosplayer walked and posed across the stage. It's completely non-competitive, but as I believe commissioned costumes have no place in the masquerade, it's a nice opportunity for those who don't sew their own to show off.

Basic Beecicchi
01-24-2003, 03:17 PM
Stupid Comment : i thought the masquerade theme was about who has the best costume........REGARDLESS of who constructed it.

[i'm sorry, i read the Anime Expo rules and restrictions, as well as others.......i'm just wondering why "building material and behind the scenes information" is so crucial nowadays....and since most of you are going to call me thick headed, i'll take the time to read carefully from the top of this post. ]

Troppy
01-24-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Basic Beecicchi
Stupid Comment : i thought the masquerade theme was about who has the best costume........REGARDLESS of who constructed it.


this is true, but...they're still accepting an award for something they DID NOT DO. Basically someone is handing an award to them, over people who put long hard hours of strife and love into constructing their outfits by themselves, while the recepient merely put a check in the mail. I don't approve of that...

I GUESS it's okay if its made obvious to the ENTIRE audience that the outfit is by someone else. I know that some people have a passion for sewing but would never step up on stage...if that's the case, I suppose its acceptable...but I think part of cosplay is being able to not only create your work, but show it off in style...not giving it to someone else to model. That's like only pulling half the weight.

makio
01-24-2003, 04:22 PM
It's obvious that the majority agrees that the Hall Costume contest should allow commissioned costumes while the regular convention costume contests should not. But then there's exceptions to the rule. Age. Handicap. Percentage of the costume that was commissioned and the amount was not. Luckily, most conventions do a short interrogation of the person's costume before making a decision, so that's a plus.

And on a side noted question... Are 'props' taken into consideration when judges look over a person's costume? For instance, with Phantasy Star Online cosplay - some people want to have Mags. Should that be taken into consideration? Or what if someone dressed as Ash Ketchum of Poke'mon had commissioned someone to make a Pikachu and poke'ball? What's the deal on that sort?

Basic Beecicchi
01-24-2003, 04:28 PM
Apparently, if ANY part of the Ash Suit was commissioned, it's disqualified by default.......based on their rules.

AnimeParty
01-24-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Celine
>What about separate masquerade competitions for commissioned costumes? Maybe that would be a cool idea.

They had this "fashion show" thing at AX last year (and this year? I don't remember) which allowed cosplayers to walk across a stage in as many costumes as they wanted. Photographers could gather and grab pics as the cosplayer walked and posed across the stage. It's completely non-competitive, but as I believe commissioned costumes have no place in the masquerade, it's a nice opportunity for those who don't sew their own to show off.

Yeah, something like that would be cool.

As for me. I agree with everyone, if a costume is commissioned, it should not be entered in any contest. I also believe that if a person gets permission from the maker, not a maybe or it wouldn't really be nice, but a possitive yes, than they may go and do so. This would also mean that the people selling costumes would need to really be honest with thier buyers. The maker should always get credit no matter what. If an award is given or a prize is won, the seller should receive it. The buyer should send it to the seller. It's the right thing to do.

I'm big with commissioning because 1. People who sew and I know aren't that skilled 2. I commission for those in my club who want 3. Alot of the costumes I commission are way detailed and would take forever for me to finish. I do make my own costumes, but if you notice on my websites and such (even on the costumes page here) I will give full credit to the maker.

Sakura Drops
01-25-2003, 07:03 PM
I don't do very much sewing aside from the basting, hand-sewing, and the pattern work but I'm not allowed to use the sewing machine! My aunt has an expensive machine that I don't trust myself with and she doesn't trust me with it since I managed to futz-up her serger. :( I don't have much skill when it comes to operating both the sewing machine & serger so she does the machine sewing.

Sometimes, I work with my sister for the crafted pieces so almost everything I do is a collaborative effort. I don't pay anyone for their work persay unless chores count! Where do I stand in all of this masquerade competition?

cutekawaii
01-25-2003, 08:12 PM
Ima have to say the nay-no.

Being a commissioner and all, I'd reallly be miffed if I saw one of my works on stage...no wait..that already happened! I TOLD this guy not to compete in his costume, but he did, and he won an award ~_~ It was just a performance award, but still....grr

After that I made a new rule. I realized that I can't control everyone that I commission a costume for, so I put on my site: "Wearing yout costume in a Hall competition is STRICTLY_PROHIBITED. You may wear your costume in the Masquerade, but you MUST acknowledge that you bought the costume from Cygne Noir. This can be done via the skit introduction done by the Masquerade announcer/host. If you do not acknowledge that you purchased your costume from Cygne Noir, we will ruin your life."

I figure, hey, if a group wins an award for the performance and not neccessarily the costumes, go for it. But HELL NO to wearing it in a hall comp.

If someone doesn't do the work, then someone doesn't deserve an award. Period. Unless the award gets sent to me ^_^

I judged at Akon for the Jrock thing, and we immediatly scratched off a girl who commissioned her costume. She didn't even tell us, someone just overheard X_X

maishiranui
01-25-2003, 08:38 PM
I think that commissioned costumes should be allowed to compete in the masquerade. I thought that paticipating in the masquerade meant acting, not sewing.

I do think it is wrong to say that you made the costume when someone else really did. But I think anyone should be able to participate in the masqurade as long as credit is given and there isn't any lying. Why is it such a big deal? Why not have two separate contests. Have one for sewing skills that the creator should be able to enter or have some model enter for them, and one for just acting and having fun enjoing Cosplay.

In Japan where Cosplay originiated from most Cosplayers buy their outfits premade from stores. A lot of people (Myself included) in Japan don't really have a lot of time on their hands to sew their own costume, but still want to paticipate and have fun.

Sewing an awesome costume is amazing, they should just have another separate contest for it. I hope anime conventions here stick with the Japanese tradition. Cosplay means Costume Play, or dressing up as an anime character. And usually having fun while doing it too. I do it to have fun, not to compete or anything. I love hanging out with my friends at conventions. I also love going to have fun acting (I love acting). ^_^

I think that just because some people don't have the time to sew their own costume means that they don't get a chance to have some fun acting. ^_^'

cutekawaii
01-25-2003, 10:00 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by maishiranui
In Japan where Cosplay originiated from Actually, it didn't. It originated in the USA.

most Cosplayers buy their outfits premade from stores. A lot of people (Myself included) in Japan don't really have a lot of time on their hands to sew their own costume, but still want to paticipate and have fun.

You don't have to enter a competition to have fun.

maishiranui
01-25-2003, 10:29 PM
Well, when I was growing up we had a lot of Japanese exchange students and they inrtoducted me and my family to Cosplay, and they said it originated in Japan..so I'm gonna stick with them and believe that. ^_^ (I have no idea why they would lie to my family about that)

To me..having fun while cosplaying is the acting part. ^_^

cutekawaii
01-25-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by maishiranui
Well, when I was growing up we had a lot of Japanese exchange students and they inrtoducted me and my family to Cosplay, and they said it originated in Japan..so I'm gonna stick with them and believe that. ^_^ (I have no idea why they would lie to my family about that)

The term cosplay originated in Japan. Masquerading at conventions began in the USA at sci-fi conventions in the 70s (read: trekkies). It wasn't until the late 80s that people in Japan began dressing as characters from doujinshi at doujinshi fairs/cons to help sell their comics. Then people began to cosplay as characters not from doujinshi, but from any old anime, and thus cosplay as we see it began. So technically, people have been cosplaying in the states for over 30 years, long before Japan, but it was very low-key. No one wanted to be labled a trekkie, after all. Then when anime became popular, more people in the states became interested, and we adopted the term "cosplay."

I wrote a paper about this, I know what I'm talking about ^_^

TerryBogard
01-25-2003, 10:56 PM
I really don't know much bout cosplaying, since akon this year will probably be my first year to do it, but I really don't see the problem in having a commisioned costume in a contest. I mean, it is more than just who can sew the best, correct? I mean, there is only so many ways you can make a certain costume, but it's the person that makes the costume. And maybe for those few who can't sew, acting at competitions is fun for them? I know i'm competitive...I just can't act -_- so I won't compete lol Heck, I'm gonna play Yu-Gi-Oh! cuz it's competitive. You wouldn't DQ someone from a Halloween Masquerade if they didn't sew their own costume, would you?
And there's one more thing that I don't quite understand. Why would you forbid someone to do something with an item you sold such as a commisioned costume? From my understanding, when you sell someone anything, it's theirs to do whatever they wish. I wouldn't expect a car dealer to tell me "I'll sell you this car, but you can't drive it on tollways." Unless maybe if you get the buyer to sign a legal contract -_-
Anyway, to sum it up..to me, anyone should be able to enter the contests no matter the background of their costume. I mean, nothing's definite in the world, right? It's not a guarantee that they'll win if they can't act the part.

maishiranui
01-25-2003, 11:03 PM
Thanks for clearing that up cutekawaii ^_^

Either way, I still think that the masquerade should be judged solely for acting skills and skit creativity and not sewing. They should separate the two so people who don't have time to sew their outfits get a fair shot.

I just checked the rules at a-kon.com for their masquerade rules. ^_^ They don't say in their rules anywhere that you can't enter the masquerade if you didn't sew your own costume. Yay~

Rosiel
01-25-2003, 11:26 PM
> They should separate the two so people who don't have time to sew their outfits get a fair shot.

I'm sorry to say but people who sew their own costumes (no matter their skill level) /should/ have an advantage over those who simply send a check through the mail. It shows a lot more work, a lot more dedication, a lot more effort. And it should be rewarded.

As for time, I work insane hours as an engineer and if I can find the time, anyone can if they really want to. ^__^

> They don't say in their rules anywhere that you can't enter the masquerade if you didn't sew your own costume.

You will have to mention to the judges that you did not make the costume and say you do not want to be judged for craftsmanship, though.

> I wouldn't expect a car dealer to tell me "I'll sell you this car, but you can't drive it on tollways."

Well the car HAS the maker's logo emblazoned on it so you can't go drag-race it and then claim it's your superior engineering skills that made you win. Just like you can't wear a commissioned costume and accept an award (especially a craftsmanship/Hall award) in all good faith.

maishiranui
01-25-2003, 11:33 PM
You will have to mention to the judges that you did not make the costume and say you do not want to be judged for craftsmanship, though.

Thanks ^_^ Now I understand a bit more how this works.

cutekawaii
01-25-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by TerryBogard
I mean, it is more than just who can sew the best, correct? That's why there is HALL cosplay and MASQUERADE cosplay. Hall cosplay focuses on contruction and such, whereas the masq focuses on skit presentation. The Best of Show tends to be the group with the best costumes and skit.

Neko-con has a great judging system, thanks to Tikki. She told be about it many moons ago, so forgive me if this isn't entirely correct. Here's how it works:

Masquerade contestants must parade in front of the judges. They get asked questions about the construction of the costumes, check for accuracy, etc. The judges make notes about construction and take photos. Then the skits go on. More photos are taken. When they decide on the winners, they review the photos and notes. The BoS group is the group who had the best skit AND the best costumes. Great skits with not as good costumes may get best presentation, and not so good skits with awesome costumes can get craftsmanship awards (a person with a commissioned cosplay DEFINATLY cannot get this award). So they way this works, a group may not get BoS if they didn't make their own costumes, and certainly not craftsmanship awards.

I love this system, and I think it should be used in more cons, especially Otakon with the CRAPPIEST "SYSTEM" EVER.

maishiranui
01-26-2003, 12:09 AM
I like that judging system ^_^ It's a lot better then the Anime Expo one where you can't enter if you didn't sew your costume.

MikigamiTokiya
01-26-2003, 12:13 AM
I think it's fine as long as you make sure it's clear they don't judge your costume and just your act. Also I agree w/ the fact that if you're over 14 you should be making your own costumes and not putting it on your parents. 2 of mine were entirely my mom but since i made attim i'm doing the work myself ^^;; *is proud* but yeah that's just my opinons on that. the worst thing you can really do though is commisson a costume from some big dealer and go and try to win claiming it's all you cause that's no fair to peopel who labor over their own or the maker.

Eriol
01-26-2003, 08:42 PM
Perhaps commissioned costumes should get their own judging category, so that people who made their own costumes don't conflict. In any case, if people lie to get a commissioned costume into the contest that's not designed for commissioned costumes, how are the judges going to verify that (unless the judges can sew themselves and can ask some questions about the costume's construction)? Masquerades have an implied level of honesty to it, and people can abuse that.

There really is no fair system other than not awarding prizes. Turn the masquerade into a theater/fashion show. The moment you give out awards or compensation, the whole system gets skewed and people will cheat the system.

AnimeParty
01-26-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by MikigamiTokiya
I think it's fine as long as you make sure it's clear they don't judge your costume and just your act. Also I agree w/ the fact that if you're over 14 you should be making your own costumes and not putting it on your parents. 2 of mine were entirely my mom but since i made attim i'm doing the work myself ^^;; *is proud* but yeah that's just my opinons on that. the worst thing you can really do though is commisson a costume from some big dealer and go and try to win claiming it's all you cause that's no fair to peopel who labor over their own or the maker.

Well...most of our club members are over 14 and they have no interest in sewing so their parents make the costume, just to have one. Me personally, I'm over 14 and I have no time to learn...and I suck at it anyway...so I commission most of my costumes (the rest I try my hardest to make), but even so I totally agree, commissioned costumes should be limited to hall and not competition. We have stated to all our members "...full credit must be given to the maker of your costume...you may not lie and say you made it if you didn't...". This will be in the rule booklet we give out to them (mostly cause none of them have gone to a convention before).

MikigamiTokiya
01-26-2003, 08:50 PM
very cool then ^^ glad to hear your club has it's priorities right ^^

AnimeParty
01-26-2003, 08:52 PM
MikigamiTokiya - Thanks...I try really hard to put it into their heads...

I also give full credit on my costumes page here (cosplay.com), my own cosplay website and cosplaylab.com. Cause I think commissioners deserve the credit. ^_^

Eriol
01-26-2003, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by cutekawaii
Ima have to say the nay-no.

After that I made a new rule. I realized that I can't control everyone that I commission a costume for, so I put on my site: "Wearing yout costume in a Hall competition is STRICTLY_PROHIBITED. You may wear your costume in the Masquerade, but you MUST acknowledge that you bought the costume from Cygne Noir. This can be done via the skit introduction done by the Masquerade announcer/host. If you do not acknowledge that you purchased your costume from Cygne Noir, we will ruin your life."


How will you ruin a customer's life? That policy is unenforceable. The best you can do is refuse to do business with the person who violated your policy if you find out. I presume you have the client sign a document stating this. It's not ironclad, but it increases the validiity of your position.


Originally posted by cutekawaii
I judged at Akon for the Jrock thing, and we immediatly scratched off a girl who commissioned her costume. She didn't even tell us, someone just overheard X_X

Did you confront the individual about the accusation? How do you know the third party wasn't making stuff up to discredit the person? This stuff does happen. In the U.S., a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A third party accuses a person of lying about their costume origin. You should at least confront the accused and see if that person still sticks to his/her story.

Eriol
01-26-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by cutekawaii
The term cosplay originated in Japan. Masquerading at conventions began in the USA at sci-fi conventions in the 70s (read: trekkies). It wasn't until the late 80s that people in Japan began dressing as characters from doujinshi at doujinshi fairs/cons to help sell their comics. Then people began to cosplay as characters not from doujinshi, but from any old anime, and thus cosplay as we see it began. So technically, people have been cosplaying in the states for over 30 years, long before Japan, but it was very low-key. No one wanted to be labled a trekkie, after all. Then when anime became popular, more people in the states became interested, and we adopted the term "cosplay."

I wrote a paper about this, I know what I'm talking about ^_^

May I see your citations from that paper?

MikigamiTokiya
01-26-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Eriol
Perhaps commissioned costumes should get their own judging category, so that people who made their own costumes don't conflict. In any case, if people lie to get a commissioned costume into the contest that's not designed for commissioned costumes, how are the judges going to verify that? Masquerades have an implied level of honesty to it, and people can abuse that.

that's a rather good idea ^^ if you knew who was in charge of thoes kinda things you could probally suggest it. lol i'm at a lack w/ contacts like that but one day the word will spread... or at least we can hope. in anycase that would settle alot of problems and it would also be a chance for the creator to advertise

Eriol
01-26-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by MikigamiTokiya
that's a rather good idea ^^ if you knew who was in charge of thoes kinda things you could probally suggest it. lol i'm at a lack w/ contacts like that but one day the word will spread... or at least we can hope. in anycase that would settle alot of problems and it would also be a chance for the creator to advertise

As cutekawaii was implying with the rules at Nekocon, it really is up to the Masquerade's and Hall Cosplay's contest managers to formulate a policy on how to judge and categorize costumes.

I think most contest managers...
1) ...don't have time to formulate one. This is a poor excuse, because if they are volunteering their time for the con, they sure as heck better come up with a policy. This is also a poor excuse, as by having a free-for-all, people who do spend time and effort making their own costumes get short-changed.

2) ...don't know how to formulate a policy. It's best in this case to have some people knowledge in this type of contest AND some people knowledgeable in sewing to be able to assist in formulating a policy.

Arisa
01-29-2003, 08:52 PM
I myself have been wondering the same thing. My sewing isn't good enough to make the kinds of costumes I want, so I've been commissioning. I came to a conclusion, and that conclusion is that it's not alright. The person who made it worked really hard on that (I can appreciate that more after starting to learn how to sew!), and people who buy those costumes have no right to win prizes from them, even if the person who made the costume is credited. It's not right. I wouldn't want anyone but me getting prizes for costumes I made, unless it was someone I was in a group with or a veeery good friend.

AnimeParty
01-30-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Arisa
I myself have been wondering the same thing. My sewing isn't good enough to make the kinds of costumes I want, so I've been commissioning. I came to a conclusion, and that conclusion is that it's not alright. The person who made it worked really hard on that (I can appreciate that more after starting to learn how to sew!), and people who buy those costumes have no right to win prizes from them, even if the person who made the costume is credited. It's not right. I wouldn't want anyone but me getting prizes for costumes I made, unless it was someone I was in a group with or a veeery good friend.


You said it and even without competing, commissioners should always give credit to the person who made it, like on websites and such. ^_^

cutekawaii
01-30-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Eriol
I think most contest managers...
1) ...don't have time to formulate one. This is a poor excuse, because if they are volunteering their time for the con, they sure as heck better come up with a policy. This is also a poor excuse, as by having a free-for-all, people who do spend time and effort making their own costumes get short-changed.

2) ...don't know how to formulate a policy. It's best in this case to have some people knowledge in this type of contest AND some people knowledgeable in sewing to be able to assist in formulating a policy. I think another major reason is that the judges find the easiest way possible to judge a contest and use that method for as many years as possible (read: Otakon.) The Neko con method, IMO, should be more widely used. Tikki's workin on it, lol.

John Booty
01-30-2003, 04:10 PM
Like other people have noted, there's really no way to know for sure if a competitor commissiond their costume of made it themselves. Here's the ideas I came up with to deal with that...

1. Masquerade prizes should be kept pretty minimal, so that people don't hve incentive to lie. Costuming should be for fun, anyway, not to win fabulous prizes. (99.9% of cosplayers would agree I think!)

2. There should be a separate category for commissioned costumes. This way people with commissioned costumes can have some fun too. This removes the incentive of lying about your costume just so you can be in the masquerade.

Eriol
01-31-2003, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by cutekawaii
I think another major reason is that the judges find the easiest way possible to judge a contest and use that method for as many years as possible (read: Otakon.) The Neko con method, IMO, should be more widely used. Tikki's workin on it, lol.

Hmm, I didn't think the judges were lazy about it. lol

That was going to be my third reason, but I didn't put it up.

die-sama
02-01-2003, 07:31 PM
hmm in my opinion
i think the whole catagory way of juding is good

after you win a certain amount of prizes (like 3) you go up a level and I feel that only after then can you wing big prizes beacuse I've known too many ppl who comission costumes and then get things as their own effort its simply unfair
i've been making costumes since i was 13 and only when i was 15 did i get a sewing machine X_X
I think ppl can handle it
but i havne't read this entire thread so i may be repetitive
but i think its abosolutely big NO if you get ur "costume judged" if you dindt make IT. but i think its okay for you to be IN the masqureade to get yoru SKIT judged because thats on YOUR acting skills and your COoridinator's skills

:B

peaseblossom
02-02-2003, 12:54 AM
The category thing is very much a good idea. I guess I wouldn't really mind horribly much if someone entered the masq. in one of my costumes as long as they made it realllly clear. I would be angry (and hurt) if someone took credit for how hard I worked.

Kairikins
02-06-2003, 11:39 AM
ling_xiaoyu2002 ~ I am really glad you said that. .still being rather new I am working on a costume myself (the bottom will be done from scratch) but I found some tops that work perfectly (only they need to be modified and have some things added by myself) and was going to ask if this was ok.

But I'll agree with the general ideas there are people who work REALLY hard to have the talent in costume making they have now and to have the chance to be outed by someone who could afford a really great commision is crap. I would love to be able to get to a point I could do any costume I want and would be ticked after all the hard work anyone puts into it that someone that just has money could outscore you..

as said its not about how much money you have to spend on someone to make it for you ~ its about the love of costume making and being able to show yourself off XD heh so to speak

I have nothing *against* commissioned work at all. .but when it comes to the masquerades and competitions. .really if you cant make it either get off the asseth (like me) and learn how! Or just have fun at the cons but dont lie and enter