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View Full Version : Intolerance towards crossplay sucks!


Nine
02-16-2003, 04:35 AM
DISCLAIMER:
I have to warn you all who are faint at seeing men dressed as women. The picture I'm attaching is a picture of me in drag. Well, it's actually me crossplaying Naga from Slayers, but I will refer to the more common term of dressing in drag for this disclaimer. For those who doesn't know what "Dressing in Drag" means, it means that I'm a male wearing womenís clothing. If you arenít open minded, and/or if you are intolerant, and/or just plain disgusted by the practice of dressing in drag, do not view the picture attached to the post! If you are offended by men dressed as women, and you do view the picture - blame yourself, not me.

---

That is the disclaimer I put up on this message board whenever i show pictures of me in crossplay. It's a pretty smart arse thing, but with the way I've been treated by a couple of members there about posting my pictures - I don't care. I continue to post my pictures of me crossplaying up there, because of all the support and positive attention from those who enjoy and get entertained by seeing my crossplay pictures.

I really feel disgusted whenever I get confronted for crossplay. Especially when people come to the conclusion that I crossplay BECAUSE I'm gay. I don't crossplay just to crossplay. I cosplay the characters I love, and due to the fact a lot of the characters I love are female, it turns out that it's not considered cosplay anymore, it's now "cross"play. I am comfortable with crossplaying because I'm gay, I believe, but like I said - I don't crossplay because I'm gay. :S

I have women friends who crossplay too. Does that mean that they are lesbians? HAH! No... my friend Hikaru Tsuki cosplayed Dilandau because she is literally IN LOVE with him! They basically cosplay the characters the way I do. We are attracted to a character in one way or another, so we get the urge to cosplay them. As simple as that!

...actually - one of the more strong reasons I wanted to cosplayed Naga was because I wanted to see if I could pull it off, and I want to entertain people. I want people to get a laugh out of me. I also wanted to cosplay her for the Masquerade at Sakuracon 2003, because I can act as her a lot better than I can as Lulu. ^^;; That's besides the point though. I was still attracted to Naga, because I love her personality and her laugh! hehe.

Have you met a lot of intolerant people in your crossplay adventures? :( also, voice your opinions - positive or even negative! :)

I posted about this in the rant forum, before this forum was around because I was really mad about being treated like a sick, disgusting, pervert on another forum for doing a harmless, fun hobby... which is cosplaying. :( But now this forum is here, it would be fun to see what people have to say about it.

Also, I tend to switch from "crossplay" and "cosplay" so don't mind me. ^^;

Chosuke
02-16-2003, 10:08 AM
<q>DISCLAIMER:
I have to warn you all who are faint at seeing men dressed as women. The picture I'm attaching is a picture of me in drag. Well, it's actually me crossplaying Naga from Slayers, but I will refer to the more common term of dressing in drag for this disclaimer. For those who doesn't know what "Dressing in Drag" means, it means that I'm a male wearing womenís clothing. If you arenít open minded, and/or if you are intolerant, and/or just plain disgusted by the practice of dressing in drag, do not view the picture attached to the post! If you are offended by men dressed as women, and you do view the picture - blame yourself, not me. </q>

If that is not a warning to those who don't appreciate your work I don't know what it.
You don't force them to look at the pictures,only they control what the see and don't see.
So if they go ,click on the link AFTER reading the damn disclaimer then complain they have some nerve.

I have never taken any heat for crossplaying,but maybe thats because i'm a girl and for some reason girls crossplaying as boys don't get as much 'unwanted attention'

I think should ignore what they say! If you love the character then do it,regardless of what people think.

engrish
02-17-2003, 03:29 PM
I'm surprised you got negative reactions to your hobby. Granted I may have gotten a lot of strange looks but no one has ever given me a hard time about my crossplaying. Don't let it get you down keep up the good work.

cyankirby
02-17-2003, 05:13 PM
I agree with engrish. I've seen some amazing crossplay costumes and if someone has a problem with you crossplaying, ignore them. If people want to cosplay the character, then there should be no problem. But yes, keep up the good work! :)

Cyber Wolf
02-17-2003, 06:37 PM
Geez, if they have don't like it, why would they bother to say anything about it? I thought they might think they would be wasting their time or something. It's not like you didn't warn them. Sheesh. Can't take the heat, get out of the oven. Don't try to fan the flames down...

TsukiGuujin
02-18-2003, 01:01 PM
I think people who are against it or whatever can keep their fucking opinions to themselves.

I get really mad about people not accepting crossplay. Just as mad as I get about people not accepting homosexuality.

You shouldn't HAVE to put a disclaimer. But if you do put one, the sarcasm is great. ^^

I hate people sometimes. Close minded people. You know.

~~Tsuki Guujin~~

Kendo_Bunny
02-19-2003, 09:17 PM
Well, if anyone flames crossplay at the cosplay topic in Other Anime, they're on their way to a swift forum ban, Nine. ^_^

I think crossplay is cool, especially since it's so difficult. I'm working on a Harry McDougal costume (I want my Dilly costume to be completely accurate- black leather) I think it's great that some people are comfortable enough with themselves to crossplay. Those who aren't just don't know what they're missing....

jade_dragon
02-19-2003, 09:35 PM
hey if you love yourself and enjoy the character why the heck not
and those who insult people who are diffrent are just jelous and dont have the guts to do it themselves.the world today points fingers at everything diffrent so screw them and do what makes you happy


nine-dont warn people ,if those people dont like it to bad so sad ,you enjoy it and thats all that matters ^_^

Hikaru Tsuki
02-22-2003, 12:15 AM
My mom hates it when I crossplay, which obviously I find quite frusturating. My first costume, Duo, my mom thought he was a girl, so she was fine with it. That is, until she realized I was attracted to him and she asked questions. I told her he was a guy and then she assumed that I was a lesbien! She asks me if I am quite often, which I just find incredibly amusing.

I'm concitering taping down and lightly stuffing for my latest crossplay, but I can't help but be concerned with how my mom would react. O_o;;;

*Is the Hikaru Tsuki Nine mentioned* Bwahaha...

Menchi
02-22-2003, 01:17 AM
maybe do the stuffing/padding away from home...i had to change outta my house for things woudl be odd if i did there.

Merle-kun
02-22-2003, 08:26 PM
Very well put Nine =3

I've had a few run-ins with those who can't accept/tollerate crossplay. I'll try to go in chronological order.

The first time I crossplayed I was nervous as hell, but everything went fine. Some girls were really glad to see me, since one of them was dressed as Vegeta. Later on that year (1999) I was dressing as Anna Respighi and Chris Kristopher, both from Battle Athletes. I did Anna the first day, and Chris the second and as I was walking around the dealers' room on Saturday as Chris (which is a girl btw) some girl came up to me, and proceeded to threaten me. She said something to the effect of if I do Akari Kanzaki the last day, she was going to hurt me, then just stormed off... didn't even stay for a rebuttal, not like I could have given one, I was bewildered and with out words. Why on earth would you threaten to beat someone up for that? That reaction is just plain stupid.

The second happened at Project AKon 2001, there were two guys dressed up as Santa Claus of all things, running around insulting all cosplayers from what my friend in security told me. Well the passed by me and said "Oh look, it's a guy in a dress" and started laughing to themselves. I wasn't in the best of moods that day, and they really didn't help.. so I turned around and asked them if they ever had their asses kicked by a guy in a dress.... and they just kept walking ^^;

Third occurance was at Otakon yet again.. I swear all my bad stuff happens there it seems ^^; But I was running around as Lime from Saber Marionette J. I didn't get the wig finished on time because I was trying to cut it in my room, so I ended up pulling my hair down in place of the wig, and thankfully it was long enough. At one point during the day, I was on the second floor and chatting with a friend of mine who found me to get pics when I noticed the Sailor Senshi group of all males, all unshaved, down the hall way with people around them taking pictures. I'm not a fan of that, but to each their own I say... some of those people filtered down my way, and asked for my photo. One of them made the comment of how much this picture of me would make his friend laugh back home..... grrr! I was so mad at that. But I calmly and sternly told him not everyone is out to amuse people with their costumes and that some do it seriously and that it was rude to say such things to people. I think he walked off kinda dazed after my talking to ^^;;

Since then.. I really can't recall any bad things. Now I have nothing but compliments and funny stories to report. Like the 3 trucks worth of service men going out for maneuvers and were waving like crazy at my two female friends and myself in our car, on the way home from Ushicon.. ^^; If you want the full story and others, read my funny stories thread =3

BTW! I've thought of doing Naga on and off... maybe one day I'll be brave enough ^^ But I have other equally well endowed female costumes in the planning stages.. hehehe =3

sakura yuna
02-25-2003, 06:26 PM
I can't stand those kind of people either! They suck! Nine....you are soooo awesome! I love your lulu costume btw. back to the topic at hand I have seen some grim faces at AX02 when a male crossplayer comes around...not so much I noticed with females but with males....I think what really gets to them is the fact that some guys are too damn lazy to shave their legs..or they think it's "unmanly" to do it so they simply just don't do it! Needless to say some guys just don't look as a female but that's just "some" guys not all! I am truly impressed with some! Wow...the intricate details with the costumes and such...I mean I really don't damn well care who you crossplay as, as long as you are happy with yourself and consider it an accomplishment....and don't listen to everyone! They just wanna put you down! Never give in! You are who you are and that makes you a great person! Never be upset of what and who you are! So what if your 300 or 100 pounds over the characters weight....weight does not matter it is the time and love of the character/costume that you put into it that counts!!! and Nine, one more thing...never change who you are that makes you a unique individual and keep up the outstanding work!

AngelYuki
02-25-2003, 09:42 PM
I think that there are some people out there who just don't get the fact that they should keep their mouths shut when dealing weith crossplayers.

I personally am lucky. I'm a girl who crossplays so I don't get trouble, but it's not cool. Personally Nine I think your work is great. And you should tell anyone who gives you heck about it to get stuffed.

Rosiel
02-27-2003, 10:41 AM
I finally decided to put in my two cents, even though I am going against a landslide.

Nine, I do not support your disclaimer. It's snarky and sarcastic and impolite. Yes, there should be a disclaimer, society is such that men dressed as women can still be shocking to some due to their upbringing and belief system. You're obviously a man, obviously dressed as a woman, and some people will be uncomfortable about it.

Life is not about "mememe", it's also about the others around you. Your freedom is limited by that of the other people's, and as such I think a /polite/ warning is in order. You do not want to sink to the level of those who have been rude to you by being rude in return.

(As for the female->male equivalent, it's not as jarring because women wearing pants and having little/no breasts is something you see every day in the streets. The problem here is society's views of such things, which can not be changed overnight.)

Now on to the second part, that of sexual orientation. Who cares why people think you cosplay characters of the opposite gender (I should point out you marginalize yourself by labelling it as crossplay instead of cosplay), or what they think your orientation is? I know what many people think of mine, I find it hilarious, and I even play with it. Who cares?

TsukiGuujin
02-27-2003, 12:41 PM
>>Life is not about "mememe", it's also about the others around you. Your freedom is limited by that of the other people's, and as such I think a /polite/ warning is in order. You do not want to sink to the level of those who have been rude to you by being rude in return.

Maybe not, but you know, I think Nine has every RIGHT to be sarcastic and bitchy if he wants to be. Other people are just as bitchy to those of who crossplay, and we're mean right back.

>>As for the female->male equivalent, it's not as jarring because women wearing pants and having little/no breasts is something you see every day in the streets. The problem here is society's views of such things, which can not be changed overnight.

Maybe it's NOT as jarring. But you know, it should be equal. Almost every girl is a crossdresser. What the hell is wrong with boys doing it? Society may be the problem, and I think that's what Nine's point is, with the disclaimer anyway.

>.<

~~Tsuki Guujin~~

Rosiel
02-27-2003, 12:50 PM
> Other people are just as bitchy to those of who crossplay, and we're mean right back.

But that is bringing yourself down to their level. ><
Two wrongs do not make a right, as trite as it is, and reacting in a polite manner is the best way to get accross that it is a normal, if misundertood, hobby, and that they should have the human decency to, even if they were disturbed by it, be polite about another human being's choices.
Bitching back makes you sound defensive and, well, in the wrong.

> But you know, it should be equal.

Of course. And famine should not exist in the world either.
It's not because things should be that they magically are.

> Society may be the problem, and I think that's what Nine's point is, with the disclaimer anyway.

Society is the problem, but anger and sarcasm will not change people's minds. It's by talking things out peacefully, turning the other cheek, and educating people that real changes can happen.

Basically, in order to breed tolerance, you have to show tolerance towards everyone, even the intolerant.

TsukiGuujin
02-27-2003, 01:39 PM
>>Society is the problem, but anger and sarcasm will not change people's minds. It's by talking things out peacefully, turning the other cheek, and educating people that real changes can happen.

That doesn't always work, you know. X_X

As much as it would be AWESOME if that worked, it's sick...but saracasm and anger seem to get points across faster. American society, and all that crap. -.-

>>Basically, in order to breed tolerance, you have to show tolerance towards everyone, even the intolerant.

*DIES* Cuz that's, like, EASY or something.

~~Tsuki~~

Rosiel
02-27-2003, 01:53 PM
> *DIES* Cuz that's, like, EASY or something.

I agree, that is really hard. >< But if you're intolerant, even towards the intolerant, you're becoming that which you hate. Picking and choosing what opinion you tolerate is missing the point.

It seems to me that a calm explanation gets the points accross better than heavy sarcasm... if someone answers me in a disrespecful tone, I'm surely not going to listen to a word they say, on the contrary, I'll make a point to remember that person's opinion does not interest me.

kanzaki_miki
02-27-2003, 05:14 PM
you make a good naga! My boyfriend makes a good rinoa, people always stare and ask me what my girlfriends name is >_<


on the way of crossplaying do any guys have any cool crossplaying pictures I could use for my(well not entirely mine) website? i would be way grateful!!! ( www.gaytrabia.cjb.net nothing dirty. just FF Gay, etc)

Raincrystal
02-27-2003, 05:15 PM
It seems to me that a lot of people who do not-always-accepted things like crossplay, crossdress, or are gay, are so defensive about themselves that they end up basically yelling at anyone who hasn't already proved themselves tolerant. They're often harsh and suspicious because they've been mistreated so much. But it's threatening to those of us who don't do these various things. I always worry: is this person going to hate me because I am not "different" in the same way as them? It's a kind of reverse discrimination: I am automatically seen as a threat/enemy until I show how tolerant I am.

I wish everyone would just deal with people as people, and not judge them based on a personal system of beliefs that might not apply for the target. I know things aren't simple and it isn't just going to happen, but those who have experienced intolerance could at least take the first step because they know how terrible intolerance is.

Menchi
03-05-2003, 02:59 PM
i dont think its right that ppl stereotype that you are instantly gay for crossplay. to girls i know have already asked me up front if i was gay just b/c i only have crossplayed (minus menchi). an the one of the girls had to say "please dont take it personally". while all my costumes *so far* are all girls...doesnt mean i am gay or have any interest in being a girl. i jus think they dont get the idea that most male costumes look about the same..an usually provide lil challenge to me (unless ya like FF or such). granted i am still a lil put out that she even asked me that...as i think it wasnt called for, well i dont appreciate it atleast. i really thnk ppl need to get over that stupid stereotype of "your gay b/c you will wear a dress an your a MAN" this isnt the 1950's an dont have any interest in being a girl, or getting a bf. crossplay is jus more challenging to look like a girl whne your a guy...or a girl tryin to look liek a guy. an i for one like a good challenge or i wouldnt have made menchi or made some effort to make more noticable female character costumes.

Rosiel
03-05-2003, 04:06 PM
> to girls i know have already asked me up front if i was gay just b/c i only have crossplayed

I do not understand why there is such drama sparked by this. So someone politely enquires about your orientation... how is that insulting? It might be a little forward, but I don't see why it should create such indignation.

And quoting Raincrystal with whom I agree completely:
those who have experienced intolerance could at least take the first step because they know how terrible intolerance is.

TsukiGuujin
03-05-2003, 04:10 PM
>>I do not understand why there is such drama sparked by this. So someone politely enquires about your orientation... how is that insulting? It might be a little forward, but I don't see why it should create such indignation.

Some people don't want to share. And it can be offensive, depending on how they ask, and everything. ^^

>>those who have experienced intolerance could at least take the first step because they know how terrible intolerance is.

I agree, I guess...
but we all know what a hypocrite I am. ^^;

~~Tsuki~~

Rosiel
03-05-2003, 04:19 PM
> Some people don't want to share. And it can be offensive, depending on how they ask, and everything. ^^

Well, true, if it is said in a condescending tone... but I think most people are genuinely curious, not malignant. (And who knows, maybe they wanted to know if he was gay to see if they could hit on him or not. ;) )

But I mean it's so easy to come up, even if you don't want to tell, with a light-hearted answer... I don't know... something like "How about asking my name first" and then winking, then just forget all about it, instead of being bitter. ^_^

Menchi
03-05-2003, 04:28 PM
in this case it was more than it seems...they had been implying it for a long time. also when she was asking...she was doin so...in a more serious tone as if it were a fact. i heard rumors for months from this cirle of ppl i know. keep in mind i have been acussed of it many more times than i can remember before...an each time was more to be rude an jus black and white vs being friendly.

TsukiGuujin
03-05-2003, 04:37 PM
>>But I mean it's so easy to come up, even if you don't want to tell, with a light-hearted answer... I don't know... something like "How about asking my name first" and then winking, then just forget all about it, instead of being bitter. ^_^

GAHAHA!
I've had people both be bastards and be genuinely curious when asking me those things.

I tell them to either fuck off, or I flirt with them, because I can. XD

>>in this case it was more than it seems...they had been implying it for a long time. also when she was asking...she was doin so...in a more serious tone as if it were a fact. i heard rumors for months from this cirle of ppl i know. keep in mind i have been acussed of it many more times than i can remember before...an each time was more to be rude an jus black and white vs being friendly.

Yeah, that really sucks.
Everyone at my old school was CONVINCED I was a lesbian, and that was BEFORE I dressed like a boy half the time. ^^

~~Tsuki~~

Teteiyusu
03-05-2003, 05:19 PM
people who don't understand think I'm gay beacuse I cosplay as guy characters!it does not bother me though.
people will always have their opinions on the subject of cross dressing, but don't ever let it get to you because their is no shame in dressing up like a man if you are a woman or a woman if you are a man! JUST HAVE FUN AND ENJOY COSPLAY!

Merle-kun
03-06-2003, 08:20 AM
I've been asked if I'm gay a lot of times while crossplaying. At first it really bothered me, but any more I know why they come to that conclusion and I blame stereotypes and the media for the most part, and not the individuals. The only way I take it personally is if the person asking is acting rude, which hasn't happened for a while, thank kami. So my advice is to not take it personally unless they're being jerks. It just makes my crossplaying so much nicer =3

Ravenous
03-07-2003, 11:52 AM
hmmm...

like a common saying i remember, 'there's always a freak in the crowd.' Narrow minded people cant be avoided, the reason why they act like crap is because they are afraid of it. People hate what they fear most, and they fear crossplaying is just as same as admitting being a homo.

By goodness, if all crossplayers have bad records then they have the right to say that.

In my place they have a milder discrimination, girls are accepted to crossplay---but guys arent....but hopefully if it persists they couldnt do nothing about it.

hehehe...

Ehrgeiz
03-07-2003, 05:31 PM
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq

Ravenous
03-08-2003, 09:24 AM
such intolerance in crossplay is as old as racism X_x and sexism. But everything has its way in working out....for a mean time, its best to ignore those narrow minded people....il just ramp in crossplay getup and to hell with them >:) its not likes its deadly or offensive or anything....