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Ryuujin
02-22-2003, 10:16 PM
I was one of the few people that actually got to be in the front row of the show while Duel Jewel played (Even thought the whole fan club kinda pushed me and my friends back to the second row). I just wanted to get some other peoples opinions on the show. First, before you tell me anything, say if youve ever even been to a Show ("concert") and whos was it. Its kinda hard to take someones a opinion on a show if theyve never been to an "Actually" show ,show.

Ok:
When the bassist went off stage and the singer followed did anyone else think that was straged. I so saw it differently. When I asked people afterwards they said it was all staged, but what it seemed to me what that the bassits just wasnt feeling it and was fed up so he walked off. It seemed the vocalist and the drummer had to consoul him and talk im to go back on.... I just dont believe that theyd leave both their guitarist out on stage with a bass and drum plug in the background. If they meant to do that their stupid a hell.

Second, Im into mostly the emo/punk/hardcore scene so im used to moshing and crowd surfing and just having a good time at a show. It was a total let down when security was actually stopping everything that was going on. They pretty much just made us stand there. All we could do was jump up and down and maybe put our hands into the air. Im sorry, but anything like that is just stupid. Duel Jewel was actually a really good band and had alot of song that actually deserved some kind of acknowledgement from the crowd. I really wish security was more allowing. I mean if you cant handle a real show you probably shouldnt listen to "fast" music... Go listen to some classical music or something.

Anyways, maybe halfway through the show I was fed up with just standing around so I left. I mean, If i wanted to just listen to the music I could just go buy there cd. Duel Jewel deserved better I think.

What about you ?

Oshidori
02-22-2003, 10:46 PM
I'm a veteran concert goer, and i was disappointed that there wasn't more going on crowdwise, and i figured security wasn't going to let anything happen. But it happens sometimes at shows, you don't always have to have a pit open up to have fun or enjoy the music. Scuse me if I'm pulling the old fogey bit, but it's kinda weird that the younger generations feel there *has* to be a pit in order for a show to be any good or fun. The whole point is to go and enjoy the music. If the crowd breaks out into a pit because the music has so moved them to, fine. But it shouldn't be thought of as a mandatory occurence for a show to be considered good.

I got to the show late, so i was waaay in the back (moved up a li'l during, but not too much) so i can't tell you whether or not the bassist was pissed.

Plus, this is an Anime Con, i really didn't expect it to be as wild as a normal concert to begin with, because most of the people there probably have never been to a show and wouldn't know how to conduct themselves. But the music was good, so i was chillin.

And I usually frequent shows like Pantera, Cannibal Corpse, and Type-O Negative, or random Metal shows at places like L'amours in Brooklyn.

Ryuujin
02-23-2003, 12:07 PM
Yeah, I agree. You dont *have* to have a pit at every show. And I dont think its manditory, ive just gotten so used to it at all my other shows if it doesnt happen I figure somethings wrong. But yeah, Im mostly into the emo/hardcore scene so I was just hoping this show would be like the ones im used too. I mean alot of Duel Jewels songs were really really good. That really fast song they did I was praying for the crowd to just stop acting like trees stuck in the ground and actually move to the music. I mean, you dont have to mosh, and you dont have to crowd surf, and you dont even have to jump up and down, but I feel alot is lost when you cant take the energy fromt he music and move with it. I mean you dont go to a rave to stand around, do you?

I guess it true though. You really cant expect a convention full of anime geeks who barely leave their houses let alone go to a show know how to have a good time at a show. I mean no one actually gets hurt in a pit, or atleast not at my shows. Maybe at one of those Death Metal Shows, but yeah know. I guess I was expecting something different from everyone... I guess I should have known better....

But yeah... Didnt really want to get into the whole aspect of how to conduct yourself at a show. I just wanted to know if anyone else thought the bassist was just feed up and just left the stage.

Lilli
02-23-2003, 12:47 PM
*points over to the Duel Jewel Concert thread in the JRock section* http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7874

I'm of an opposite mind. I feel that the crowd was disrespectful, and while I very much enjoy loud music, and have been to concerts before, I feel that the crowd at the Duel Jewel Live was rather disrespectful. In the case of this concert, I'm going to watch and listen to the band, not watch and listen to mindlessly screaming fangirls and fanboys, at least 7 out of 10 of them I'm willing to bet money on have never even heard the band's music.

If there was fanservice happening onstage, I could see there being a reason to cheer and scream. Or if they're intentionally trying to rile up the crowd, or when they're finished with a song. Scream your bloody head off for all I care. But to scream so loudly while they're singing that the band can barely be heard, I feel is rude to the band, and rude to others in the audience, rude to any true fans out there who wanted to see a performance, and rude to any potential fans, who wanted to go and see what the band was all about.

Is there different behaviour at a death metal concert? I'm sure there is. But this was not some huge event. This was not a Kiss concert, nor was this Metallica, or anyone of the like. This was a small band from Japan, at a small con on the east coast. Also it seems to me as though there is different behaviour at concerts in Japan, all of the live videos I've seen, the crowds just go spaztic, cheering, screaming, yay. But once something actually starts happening, i.e. someone from the band is speaking, or they're into playing a song, then the crowd gets quiet so they can see what they came for. A performance.

I left after 4 or 5 songs because I was fed up with the mindless antics of the crowd in general; they'd successfully made it impossible for me to enjoy the concert. And so if the bassist walked off stage, I can't say that I much blame him.

Luna Moon
02-23-2003, 01:48 PM
I was in the front row so I have no complaints...

The point is...

They are a Visual Kei band....and there are a bunch of FANGIRLS...so don't expect them NOT to scream....that's just the way it is....

Now....DJ was upset cuz the microphones weren't working correctly and the show didn't go as well as they would like it to go...
They were also possibly upset because people were leaving....

But neways...

The next day at the Acoustic Concert they were in a better mood cuz there were fans in the room who actually didn't scream their heads off the whole time...and actually listened to the music...

DJ is not an arrogant band...they were just disgruntled with the circumstances....they ARE very happy that people showed up cuz they didn't think anyone was gonna attend their concert.....




-Luna-

ki kuru kitty
02-23-2003, 02:01 PM
Man that was some wonderful music. I believe I was there, I wanted to ask about the fashion but was sadly turned down for other fangirl question. But I did want to dance to the music a lot. Sadly most of the music was very calm paced and slow. Beautiful non the less but very hard to dance to. I take my challenges of places to dance as they come and go. I did take some courage to dance to one song, I'm sure inspiring myself to new leaps to being able to accustom some sort of style for any kind of music.
I heard people had dance at the friday live showing, so I offered to dance on the saturday show. I wasn't sure of the name so I'm hoping its the same band I was at. If not, my mistake.

supesu otoko
02-23-2003, 03:24 PM
we mustn't forget it was an acoustic concert
& like mentioned before we mustn't forget those silly little fan girls.
i myself have attended many concerts of different degrees varying from slayer or cradle of filth to david bowie or cibo matto.
since i am a terribly little girl it often irks me that big pompous men would rather thrash around in a moshpitt than peacefully dance around to the music.
i for one thoroughly enjoyed Duel Jewel's concert that Saturday afternoon because it did give me space to appreciate something I have been waiting so long to see without fearing someone who may just come for the drinks or mosh falling on my head.
it also felt more personal.. instead of pushing 500 into a tiny club or sitting in a stadium with 5,000, many fans got to experience a concert on a more personal, less populated basis.
might i add the autographing session later was quite an attraction.
as for the bassist being angry? i didnt notice anything of the sort.
however, i do remember the lead singer Hayato running away after the last song on Saturday muttering "sorry i'm crying" in japanese.
it made me feel so heart broken.


love love!
kath

Luna Moon
02-23-2003, 03:48 PM
Hmm...I remember Hayato-san crying too....

But I don't think it was because he was sad T_T

I think they were happy tears ^___^

Because he posted in their forum that he was so happy & relieved that people showed up~





-Luna-

Oshidori
02-23-2003, 07:10 PM
Maybe at one of those Death Metal Shows

actually, death Metal Shows have the best and most 'courteous' pits...you only get hurt if you *don't* know the unspoken rules of a pit.

Funny enough, the worst pits i've gone to where no one has an inkling of a clue as to how to conduct themselves, are for shows of more popular groups, or neo-punk shows. But i attribute that to the fact that those things draw a younger crowd of kids that don't know the ropes yet. Or maybe i'm just *that* old, and the new thing is to actually try to maim each other instead of have fun ::shrug::

wait, are we talking about the panel, or the concert on friday night?

since i am a terribly little girl it often irks me that big pompous men would rather thrash around in a moshpitt than peacefully dance around to the music.

I'm a li'l girl too, and i always jump right in (even if it's only for a little while...i don't have the energy anymore to keep up in a pit for a whole show). I do wear big ass bracelets though to help me, but they're only used when necessary 0_o

Zelly
02-23-2003, 07:30 PM
Just a comment on the whole "staged thing"...sometimes the members walk off so the others can do a solo with their respective instruments or something. O_o It didn't seem to me like any of them were upset...Although I do agree that fangirls are extremely annoying. @_@; I couldn't stop myself from scrambling to touch Hayato when he came by, though...^^;;

If it's like that with just an indies band like Duel Jewel, it would be much worse if a big band like Dir en Grey came to a con...O_o;;;

Ryuujin
02-23-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Zelly
Just a comment on the whole "staged thing"...sometimes the members walk off so the others can do a solo with their respective instruments or something. O_o It didn't seem to me like any of them were upset...


<sarcasim>Thank you for explaining the whole Solo thing. Im an idiot I should have known better.... </sarcasim>

... On another note. Ive had the same thread on another forum and I got this:

"I had been on an elevator with them several times at the con and one of the times they were having a conversation (in Japanese of course) to the effect of "This gig sucks". Now I don't know about you, but that bothers me a bit that some no-name J-band thinks that getting the chance to come here and preform sucks.

Their attitude sucks and they couldn't have paid ME to take one of their CDs."

[Also] "Their comments were made before the show."

-KojiroSato
Animenation Forums

I guess its just something to give more back up to my theory. Of course I could be wrong.... but the vocalist and drummer were kinda of slow to get off stage if the case was to have a "planned" solo. And I dont know any bands that enjoy doing "solos" with a drum and bassist plug in the background.... doesnt that make it NOT a solo? At any rate, I'll probably never get the answers Im looking for anyways.... half the people that responded on both threads dont even know a real show if it came up and bit them on the @ss.

Luna Moon
02-23-2003, 08:15 PM
Uh oh...Andrew's getting upset hehehehe ^o^

But seriously....

In reality.....Duel Jewel is a Indie J-Rock band that's only been around for a few years...

You can't compare their shows to those punk ones you go to....

Things are done differently for Indie J-Rock bands......and they're also from a different country so that could explain it....
There could be a million reasons why things happened the way they did.....

Now we'll probably never know 100% what they felt while they were at Katsu....and all we can go by is what they said.

They said they enjoyed their time there and didn't complain about anything so it probably wasn't all that bad.....

and even if Natsuki-san was actually upset.....it's nothing crucial.....cuz he was frigg'n smiling more than any of the other band members on Saturday & Sunday ^_____^

Either way......all this really isn't important or worth bustin' a nerve over...

haha....let's all agree that Duel Jewel is Cool (and human) ^o^

Muehehehehe...*listens to "Tsuki to Tawamure" for the 100th time*




-Luna-

MasterOfBarton
02-23-2003, 08:17 PM
Ok, all I have to say is that there's a lot of attitude going on here, and most of it sucks. I personally had a great time at the concert. Granted, I may not be the most proficent rocker or concert go-er but at least I can say I had a good time...and that I have a new band to listen to. I will fully admit that at the time, I was an "annoying fan girl", but I WAS there to listen to the music more than anything. I was completely fed up with all the losers standing around me that obviously weren't enjoying the show. I just don't understand why they didn't leave and let the everyone else enjoy it.
And I apparently missed this whole "staged or not" thing you're talking about...I was in the middle of the crowd. But I do agree with Lilli that the crowd was disrespectful. I wish I would've made it to the accoustic concert too, but oh well.
And as far as what people heard in the elevator, that was said in another language (which I wouldn't take another person's translation of unless I knew for sure that they actually KNOW Japanese), I wouldn't pay any attention to that, especially if it was before the concert. I mean, the area the hotel is located in isn;t the best view of...well, of anything except a freaking highway. So yeah, at that point, the gig probably would suck.
All I can say is that I'm glad that DJ came to Katsu and it was totally cool, as far as I'm concerned. BUT that's just my opinion, which you're totally free to rip apart at any moment.

Oshidori
02-23-2003, 10:48 PM
I was in the middle of the crowd. But I do agree with Lilli that the crowd was disrespectful. I wish I would've made it to the accoustic concert too, but oh well.

that's why i asked whether or not people were talking about the panel/acoustic thing or the show. A panel i can understand, but how is cheering throughout a show disrespectful??? That's sort of what happens at a show, and expected, and although they're from another country, concert attitude seems to hold the same wherever you go. (I've brought my Japanese friends to an American concert or two, and they loved it and said the energy was definitely better than the crowds at home)

I thought there wasn't *enough* going on, and i felt bad that the band might feel the lack of energy from the audience, and *that* could have pissed them off.

I think i had a better time towards the back, there were definitely a lot of people noticeably rockin out to the music, and everyone seemed to be having fun. Some people seemed annoyed by any cheering, but i just shrugged that off and figured they probably hadn't been to a show before and weren't used to the noise.

Yeah, i wouldn't trust what that person posted either about the elevator thing, for us we don't know them, or as pointed out how good their Japanese is, so it's just hearsay.

When did the 'bassist storming off' thing happen? Like i said, i showed up late, so maybe it was before i got there? Everything i saw seemed chill, if only a little awkward at points.

GUNDAMPILOT
02-23-2003, 11:22 PM
I loved the actual duel jewel concert. I made it a little ways from the front and was getting fed up with security yelling at me for having my gal on my shoulder -.-''

Other then that it was great. My favorite part was the indavidual rockin out sessions.

MasterOfBarton
02-23-2003, 11:48 PM
Lilli:
"A panel i can understand, but how is cheering throughout a show disrespectful??? That's sort of what happens at a show, and expected, and although they're from another country, concert attitude seems to hold the same wherever you go. "

I was referring to the people who were obviously not enjoying themselves and the people in front of me who were giving the band the finger. That was totally unnecessary and completely stupid of them. They should've just left instead of being idiotic that way. The screaming didn't bother me at all...I was probably one of the loudest people there, lol. :)
But I really felt like smacking half in the people in front of me, that's what I was actually talking about....

Yui
02-24-2003, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by Luna Moon
[b]


I was in the front row so I have no complaints...

The point is...

They are a Visual Kei band....and there are a bunch of FANGIRLS...so don't expect them NOT to scream....that's just the way it is....
.
]


Ack. Pain, pain, pain, pain.

Please see the other thread in the j-rock forum. I don't wanna go into this again too much here as well...

But I will a little. X_x

Please, not visual kei, for they are not. Pretty, talented, fun, cool (albeit a tad under-experienced) j-rockers - yes. Visual? A bit. VK? Absolutely not. Kastucon toted them as such, but it's really inaccurate.

Also, if they were, the audience would be much more still - for VK attendees have the patience for the theatrics. They'll cheer, but they also have the sense to shut up when needed, so everyone can equally share.

I don't wanna diffuse your arguement on a technicality of wording, but I really feel it's important to not confuse the two. (It's like transposing J-pop with J-rock O_O)

Lilli
02-24-2003, 02:45 AM
._.; MasterofBarton, that wasn't me who said that, it was Oshidori.

Luna Moon
02-24-2003, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Yui
Ack. Pain, pain, pain, pain.

Please see the other thread in the j-rock forum. I don't wanna go into this again too much here as well...

But I will a little. X_x

Please, not visual kei, for they are not. Pretty, talented, fun, cool (albeit a tad under-experienced) j-rockers - yes. Visual? A bit. VK? Absolutely not. Kastucon toted them as such, but it's really inaccurate.



Woops...sorry...they're a Visual Indie J-Rock Band....

I don't really think my friend Andrew cares what I call them though~ *lol*





-Luna-

Oshidori
02-24-2003, 06:29 AM
I was referring to the people who were obviously not enjoying themselves and the people in front of me who were giving the band the finger.

damn, i didn't know that. That's retarded.

._.; MasterofBarton, that wasn't me who said that, it was Oshidori.

heh? What they quoted wasn't me either.

MasterOfBarton
02-24-2003, 08:51 AM
Oh manz! I dunno how to use the quote thingy yet! Grrr.....I always do stupid crap like that! SORRY! :O

Yui
02-24-2003, 11:37 AM
It's okay, Luna. I see in the situation, for your intended point, either way wouldn't have made a difference. ^_-* But I just didn't want any new people witness to the conversation to be confused...because I was really confused when I started getting into Japanese music, and that's just a terrible thing. I want to try to help people avoid that awkward stage if possible. O_o

Lilli
02-24-2003, 12:31 PM
Oshidori: ^^; Hehee, it's not realllly important, but ya, she was quoting from you. It's from the first paragraph from your last post on the first page, where you started the post with a quote from MasterofBarton.

And if you understand that, can you explain it to me? :3 lalalaa *gets distracted and chases after a butterfly*

Luna Moon
02-24-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by MasterOfBarton
[B
I was referring to the people who were obviously not enjoying themselves and the people in front of me who were giving the band the finger. That was totally unnecessary and completely stupid of them. They should've just left instead of being idiotic that way. [/B]







hehehe...It's okay if people give the band the finger....cuz that's what YuYa (the blonde guy) was doing to the audiance....if you saw him when he went to the front of the stage...he was flicking off the audiance and saying stuff....*LOL*

A lot of the fans were doing it back...

Yeh I know it's twisted X_x but that's probably what you were witnessing...




-Luna-

Nene
02-24-2003, 09:53 PM
Well, I've been to four American concerts in my life, Gorillaz at the 9:30 club, Incubus, NiN, the Cold/StainD concert, also to the HFStival for the past three years, but I don't really count that as a concert..-x x;; I wasstanding right up front for this concert (waited in line forEVER, but my friend pushed me behind her for she could be up front, even though she didn't know who the hell DJ ish...but because she was "short" she had the right...dumbass -= =;; and also this REALLY annoying girl was standing right in front of me, with this HUGE hat on so I couldn't really see much without aching to look around her hat, since she couldn't take it off because "it was attached"..erg...) But this tiny thing, let's see...

First off, the audience was really disrespectful. Even if we're like all "let's start a mosh-pit" or "oo, crowd-surf!" to Rock bands, Japanese bands are really not used to that. Especially rock. In fact, in Japan, most of the concert places have only the first 20 feet to stand, and the rest are seats, because the audience more over likes to sit back and actually ENJOY the music. Which really one should do at a concert, except enjoy watching the beautiful bands members (specially Val and Natsuki for me, but you know..) singing the songs. Oh I know, you must "get the feel of the music". I honestly do know. I am actually usually one of those people that start mosh pits (even though, since I'm a girl, and guys are such bee-yoches when it comes to moshing with girls, they dun last long..-x_x;;) or runs to crowdsurf almost immedeatly. But still, Jrock is different ("in ways that you can not understand!" er..no..->>;;)

And the fangirls! Ugh..-x x;; They can scream and all, but not when poor Hayato is trying to SPEAK...-xx;; And I really bet you most of the screaming fangirls had NO idea who the hell DJ was! See, most of the fans that had been into Duel Jewel for a while were actually trying to LISTEN to their music, HEAR them speak, and WATCH them perform. It was quite annoying, really. I probably would've gotten fed up and left too, if I wasn't such a big fan of Val and Natsuki...a-re..-x x;;;

OH! Which Reminds me. Honestly, the whole time Duel Jewel didn't look as "Duel Jewel"-ish as the usually do. They're usually MUCH more happier, especially Val and Natsuki. Something must've been up, because they WERE really late, Val didn't really smile ONCE during the whole concert, and he even cried almost toward the end. Could have it been of happiness, or maybe something else? Also! Natsuki had that mark that looked like a bruise on his face, if anyone saw. Of course, it was gone by the accoustic, so it could've been make-up. But also, it could've been covered by make up. And even at the accoustic, they didn't really seem that much happier, at least Val, though they did seem like in a better mood.

But when Natsuki and Hayato left, it really looked like they were suppoused too...for Yuya and Shun's solo, and Val just kinda didn't know exactly what the plan of the concert was at first. Because each of the band members had their own little solo, ne? Of course, I could be wrong, and something may have come up between all of the bands members, I dunno. I just do know, they act MUCH differently at their concerts in Japan...-x_x;;

Oh! and the middle finger thing. They DO use that in Japan, but it doesn't really have that much of a strong meaning there as it does here... I mean, it's more over used as a childish thing to use to say "fuck off!", like how they often in anime pull down their lower eyelid and stick out their tongue, which stand fors calling the person you're doing that to an idiot. The middle stands for "fuck off" in Japan, too, but for the english term, which doesn't really have that much of a strong meaning in Japan, as I said before. Also, many Jrock (and Japanese Hip-hop and rap bands too, but the Jpop bands are more over goody-goody idol guys -x x;;) use that symbol in photo shoots to look as if they're "cool" and "tough" and stuff. So seeing them use it at a concert isn't the surprising, for they can continue to try to pull off that tough and mean look, even though that is pretty hard with out feminine they look..-^ ^;;; (and how sweet they act backstage! X3)

So, I know my post was looong, but I hope it helps just a bit..-x x;; also, I really hope no one gets mad at me if it made me seem like a bitch...I'm sorry if it offended any of you in any way!! =X

Oshidori
02-24-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Lilli
Oshidori: ^^; Hehee, it's not realllly important, but ya, she was quoting from you. It's from the first paragraph from your last post on the first page, where you started the post with a quote from MasterofBarton.

And if you understand that, can you explain it to me? :3 lalalaa *gets distracted and chases after a butterfly*

lol ok *I* got confused because i thought you were referring to Yui who quoted not me, but i responded to masterofbarton's post even though it was adressed to you but i think i just disregarded the fact that he/she was talking to you but used my quote so i answered that one... uhh...

Ok...i'm officially dizzy now...

Oshidori
02-24-2003, 11:51 PM
Natsuki had that mark that looked like a bruise on his face, if anyone saw.

that looked more like a make-up smear (like the goth look a la marilyn manson) to me. But again, i was in the back and am nearsighted 0_o

Yui
02-25-2003, 02:05 AM
Wow, you lost me too. Are we getting this mixed with the other thread perhaps?

As far as getting back to the band's emotional state...they seemed a bit uncertain at the start of the show, a little dazed. Actually, when I did decide to leave, I did notice that they were starting to get themselves more into it, and that's why I felt a bit guilty for bailing out just then.

But I saw them at the bar over the extended con, and they were having a lot of fun socializing with everyone there. So if they -were- in a bad mood at any point, they definently got out of it by Monday. Also, they were leaving at the same time I did early Tuesday, so I kept ending up in the elevator with various combos of them and their luggage/helpers/friends. And they all were practically giddy (maybe just excited they could finally leave the godsforsaken, snowed-in, terror-lock-downed land or hyped on caffeine or whatever O_o) - so I think their trip at least was ending on a positive note if nothing else.

Sciguy
02-25-2003, 06:44 PM
*mega sweatdrops* ehehe.. I wasn't really paying much attention to Duel Jewel. I was a little preoccupied with.... um, a Rinoa... a hot, Russian Rinoa... ^_^;;