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SolarTempest
05-31-2006, 11:46 PM
I just got back a few days ago from Anime North, awesomely big Canadian convention. Over the weekend I took almost 1000 shots! :eek:

Now that I've sorted them all out and converted them from RAW, I REALLY don't feel like editing them or anything at all now =P Just so many hundred shots that I don't think I could handle editing or tweaking them individually.

Anybody else get this too? Just take so many pictures that it would be a ridiculous effort to go through and edit them all?

I still think they look awesome unedited though. Link:
http://images.cosplay.com/gallery.php?member=43721&cat=500
Latest 10 galleries from this weekend.

Maybe I just need to take less pictures.... NAH!

TomodachiFriend
06-01-2006, 01:53 AM
That where the editorial work comes in. Keep only the best shot of each person/group/costume unless they were doing something really special or different.

You simply don't have time to edit 5 shots of the same cosplayer standing with slight variations on his face and another 3 of the same person sitting. Just pick one. I know it's hard. :)

Also, some edits are well suited to batch processing. For example, if white balance was set manually and lighting stayed constant, color correction can easily be applied to the whole batch.

ZiggyB
06-01-2006, 03:32 AM
Yah, I have this exact same problem. I have a ton of private shoots as well as general photos and I was stupid enough to shoot the masquerade too. X-D

I wanted to do the masquerade shots to practice shooting high motion, but low light conditions. So it was definately a learning experience. Also I didn't tweek the those photos that much since I sorta didn't care about them. LOL But for the general and photoshoot photos... well those need more care. The photos are here (http://www.divideby0.com/photos/2006/Fanime/masq.html) if you want to see the results.

Right now I'm posting about 15 of my favorites photos from each day of the con on my web site to give people a preview of whats to come. Then back to the grind of post processing. I'm only 3 cons behind at this point. -_-

The running joke we had at Fanime is that we need photo slaves to do the all the post processing work. X-D

That or I need to tweak the settings on my camera so that I can use more of the photos directly off the camera and do less lighting fixes afterwards.

Man, RAW on all of the photos? How much space does that take along with all of the JPEGs? I'm really tight for space and my main computer is just way to slow to work on RAWS all the time. :/

[SG]
06-01-2006, 04:02 AM
The question about photo slaves is would you trust them to do the work? I sure as hell can't trust my "photo slave" :) Not that he sucks or anything but his photoshop skills just aren't up to par around my level so it's just better off that I do the work. Otherwise he can take decent camera photos but that's most the fun of photography! :P


What I usually like to do is dump all the photos in a corresponding orginzed folder system .. something like "2006 05 26 - Anime North day 1"

Do a quicky raw conversion, and look though all the pictures though thumbnail format with ACDSee or adobe bridge.

Find the ones you do like, and go back to the raws and do a proper raw conversion and do whatever minor/major fixing you need to do :P


Sure it can take some time but in the end you'll have a pretty awesome gallery :) As for finding the time to do it.. I prefer grinding though it all and do it all at once. That way I don't have to come back to it later and go "Aww man, not this again"

The only suggestion I have about the light setting is to do a proper white balancing before taking the photos. that way you'll be able to skip that step in photoshop.

And as for shooting in RAW, many people tend not to shoot in raw because of the difficulty it adds to post-process work .. especially if you're talking hundreds of photos. I've had many suggestions to just shoot JPEG instead of RAW mainly because JPEGs are smaller and people typically don't need to go though every photo and tweak the balances to get the benefits from raw.

But yea, I think all photographers in sometime in there lives will shoot so many pictures they'll go nuts from trying to process them all. You just need to pick what you like and go from there. Don't try to do them all unless you get paid for it :P

SolarTempest
06-01-2006, 05:38 AM
TomodachiFriend, I stopped taking tons of random people pictures because of this =P And batch processing and settings subsets are our saviours!

ZiggyB, My weekend shots are a little over 4gb of space. I just love RAW so much though! I can't fight it =( To help my addiction, I've got 300gb + 120gb + 120gb drives (about half space used for redundant backup).

As for speed, summer is slowing me down. It gets pretty hot in my room now so I had to remove my computer's overclock! Hahaha, oh well.

[SG], I would definitely go nuts if I spent time editing my pics. Lol. And even when I'm getting paid for doing it, I still find it pretty annoying after a while =P

Who says digital means shoots nuts? I keep holding myself back because I don't want to have to process photos later. Hahaha.

Alessa
06-01-2006, 05:51 AM
I had similar problems when I went to the last convention where I was last year. I took about 400 shots (not THAT much, I know) but still it was lots of work to edit many of them and load them in my gallery on an other website... >_<

pxlbarrel
06-01-2006, 06:17 AM
I'm currently editing about 562 photos from Anime North. I'm deleting some as I go along if they're duplicate poses, blurry or uncomplementary. I've got about half done now. I'm spreading it over the week so hopefully, if I continue on this tedious journey, I'll be finished by next week. I batch resized them and then I batch auto-coloured them (the auto-colour actually gave me good results so I'm using it). I'm just resizing and recropping so it takes about 2 or 3 minutes per photo. To break up the monotony, I'm uploading a few at at time. I'm going to need to rethink this next year. LOL

Ollie
06-01-2006, 07:23 AM
I run a number of autmatic processes on all my shots from a convention. (Animazement = 580). It has to run overnight, and often the results are what they could be. I'm using automated functions for white balance and such, but there's no way I have time to go through that many photos manually. The last step creates a bunch of thumbnail pages I can look through.

Onice I find shots that I can throw away (about 20%) and the ones I really like (about 3%), I can go back and edit those. (Or toss them, as may be the case.) Since that's only ten to fifteen pictures, I can spend a good hour or so on each one if I'd want to. Fixing all the colors, adjusting the curves for each channel, fixing teeth, eyes, and skin if need be, trying out different croppings, and so forth.

As far as display goes, editing your shots to remove redundant ones is just as important as processing your files correctly. People get bored very quickly, moreso if they're browsing on the internet. If you have more than three images of the same subject, by the fourth one people are going to go "eh" unless it's something spectacular. And if it is something amazing, why not get right to the point?

As important as editing is, though, the saying from programming applies here, too. Crap in gets you crap out. Post processing will almost always only make a good picture better. And if you have a bunch of good pictures already, is it worth all the time and effort to make them only marginally better?

Oklahoma
06-01-2006, 07:29 AM
There are things I love about digital and things I dislike about digital (yes I actually do dislike things about digital). On the things I like it gives you the freedom to take lots of shots and weed out the bad one later and it doesn't cost as much as film. But there are drawbacks to this. One as stated above is editing those tons of photos you just took. I also firmly believe that if you take the shot right the first time you don't need much editing after the fact. With film you took the shot and what you took you got, but now with digital people are more of the mindset of if it doesn't come out right then I can always fix it in editing.

Because people who shoot digital are slowly becoming more of the mindset of fix it later they start to see just how long editing can take. I still follow the film mindset more and strive to get the shot right so I don't have to edit afterwords. All of the pictures in my gallery are unedited and are as shot, just edited to get them the right size to upload. I took around 410 pictures at Anime North this weekend and ended up with around 350 good shots and 275 that did not include duplicates or were too similar to another shot.

Yes, post processing takes time and I hate it too but I actually find that shooting in raw speeds it up. If you use raw take a look at Pixmantic Raw Shooter for editing raw pictures. It is incredible fast and allows you to do more faster than most other raw editors.

staereo
06-01-2006, 08:35 AM
I like Raw Shooter.... But I currently use Phase One's Capture One. I shoot tethered often, and it works best for me.

As quoted from my thread in the Anime Boston forum ( http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=83482 ):

"My total count of images from the studio setup was 1,314 photos, at a size of 9.5 gigabytes in unconverted raw, or 66 gigabytes in 16bit TIF files. Needless to say, I will be working on these files for a while."

I also captured a few hundred between the masq and chess events.

I am just selecting the ones that I thought came out, converting them, then I'll be sending the TIFs on DVDs to my professional artist for retouching.

The ones in my galleries are just there for the cosplay.com members who requested one of the pictures of themselves to get them early, and are untouched from capture.

Either way, it will take a while... Then I will have to match them to the release forms for filing. But I think that post work is just another step in the photography workflow. Sure, I like shooting best, but just like the time taken setting up lighting and such, image finishing is part of the process.

Bruce

AdamN
06-01-2006, 10:57 AM
I just love RAW so much though!

Does your camera have the ability to shoot RAW + JPGs? If speed is what you are after (getting photos posted on a timely manner VS long RAW conversion and tweaking) then that might be the way to go. You still have the RAW files to edit to your hearts content.

TomodachiFriend
06-01-2006, 11:49 AM
TomodachiFriend, I stopped taking tons of random people pictures because of this =P And batch processing and settings subsets are our saviours!

I hope you didn't miss any good shots by doing that. Wedding shoots always total over 1000 pictures and sometimes, after I've pressed the shutter, I think to myself "Waste of space!" But later, when I'm in front of my computer, that waste of space turns out to be an awesome picture. It probably has to do with mood swings even though mines are very minor. :)

TomodachiFriend
06-01-2006, 11:58 AM
"My total count of images from the studio setup was 1,314 photos, at a size of 9.5 gigabytes in unconverted raw, or 66 gigabytes in 16bit TIF files. Needless to say, I will be working on these files for a while."

Is the speed gain that great for you that you have to use close to 7 times more space?

What I've noticed is that RAW's take more time to load in Photoshop the first time. Open the same file a second time and it's as fast as loading up a TIF. I don't know if it has to do with the file Photoshop saves along with your RAW file or if it keeps a cache of files you've used.

Capture One probably doesn't work the same way though, so it makes me wonder about the actual benefits of TIF's in your case.

Super No 1
06-01-2006, 12:08 PM
I've only shot one convention in RAW and in the end the only tweaking I did was to mess arround with the white balance setting, which can't be done with JPEG files. So, I decided not to shoot in RAW anymore and just get the white balance right. It saves a lot of work. I still take several shots of everything, but I only chose a few to post even if they all turn out okay.

Also, I shoot a lot less than I used to. When you've been around awhile, you spend a lot more time socializing once people get to know you and your work.

staereo
06-01-2006, 01:16 PM
Is the speed gain that great for you that you have to use close to 7 times more space?

What I've noticed is that RAW's take more time to load in Photoshop the first time. Open the same file a second time and it's as fast as loading up a TIF. I don't know if it has to do with the file Photoshop saves along with your RAW file or if it keeps a cache of files you've used.

Capture One probably doesn't work the same way though, so it makes me wonder about the actual benefits of TIF's in your case.

Capture one, photoshop, and many other raw conversion programs save a cache of your image previews. As I'm sure you already know, RAW files are not at all image files and are not comprehendable by a viewing program. What the raw conversion program does is it creates an image file preview, from which your actions are immediatly previewed in its own image format. THEN when you convert, it adds those settings to the conversion from RAW to the output image file of your choice. Whenever you open a RAW file it needs to access a preview of it. If there is no preview to that image in your cache folder, then it creates a preview for you. This preview creation time is what you notice on its first load, and why you dont necessarily experience the delay on subsequent reloads. How long it holds on to the preview chached file is usually controlled by a setting in the software. Some software expels the preview as soon as you change folders, others you can manually control the duration of the cache storage. Capture One, indeed, works the same way. So when you say "or if it keeps a cache of files you've used.", you're absolutely correct! :bigtu:

I typically convert to 8 bit TIFs, but I am converting to 16 bit TIFs this time because the images which I choose to keep, will be sent to my retoucher, and she takes the images in TIF form. I want to leave the options open to her with editing, even if they end up returning to me in 8 bit color depth.

Bruce

The-Real-Link
06-01-2006, 03:14 PM
I'm really getting to that point pretty quickly as well when it comes to taking too many pictures (if there is such a thing). With the uploading here though, it still takes me a couple weeks to get them all up at best but generally I just resize them and that's it.

SolarTempest
06-01-2006, 03:15 PM
AdamN, yup - my camera does to RAW + JPG. I don't use it normally though, slows down the burst shooting and takes up much needed memory for redundant shots. I did use it this year when I had a contract for "couples" photography at a formal event though. It definitely speeds up going through the garbage shots!

We had a laptop to offload cards though, so that all made it possible.

I'm pretty big into Oklahoma's shooting philosophy. I want everything to be perfect at the time of taking my shots. Still though, with cosplay photography, I find myself dealing with terrible lighting and challenging shooting conditions ALL THE TIME indoors at cons.

I still take several shots of everything, but I only chose a few to post even if they all turn out okay.....Also, I shoot a lot less than I used to. When you've been around awhile, you spend a lot more time socializing once people get to know you and your work.
I'm trying to do the same. It's hard deleting "good" shots though!
I've got a ton of shots that I uploaded last night but I think I might spend more time paring my galleries down to "the best" shots. I'm like Ollie and also get bored after a few repetitive shots. Heh.

Eriol
06-01-2006, 10:04 PM
Take as many as you need, and show/process only the better ones. If you show everything, both good and bad shots, you can't mystify your audience.

This link brielfy describes this:
http://geofflawrence.com/photography_tutorial_selection.htm

jtnishi
06-01-2006, 11:53 PM
Digital is provably the bane of those who would go nuts on the shutter button. XD

Even if you keep say the best 10% of your shots (owing to Sturgeon's Law), if you shoot 1000 pictures, you're still going to edit 100. If you shoot 2200 pictures, you're going to end up with 220. The good news is that those 220 will undoubtedly make you look better.

In the good ol' days of film, every single shot was meticulous, or should've been. With digital, it's shoot until it breaks.

Oklahoma
06-02-2006, 09:07 AM
In the good ol' days of film, every single shot was meticulous, or should've been. With digital, it's shoot until it breaks.

I've noticed a lot of this even with myself. When people get a digital many people start getting in the mindset of if I take enough I will get at least some that turn out good and end up throwing out many of their shots. When I shot the masquerade at Anime North I was standing next to someone who was shooting it with 35mm film so some people still use it.

Still though, with cosplay photography, I find myself dealing with terrible lighting and challenging shooting conditions ALL THE TIME indoors at cons.

Very true. This though is what seperates people who are great photographers from those who are good photographers; the ability to take good shots no matter the conditions. I uploaded 71 pictures from walking around at Anime North out of the 73 I took. The 2 I didn't upload 1 was out of focus and the other the person moved and ended up in a slightly embarassing possition. I would have taken 2-3 of each person but was working security for the dealers room so I only had short chances to step away and take a quick shot of someone. I did worse though on the masquerade though, ended up with 180 out of 340 come out good.

I determine if a photographer is good or not by how well they take pictures that come out when they have absolutly no control over the conditions (walking around at an event) and how creative they are on the shots when they have absolute control over the conditions (studio); and I will say I have seen some very good photographers here.

gmontem
06-02-2006, 01:50 PM
I've had that problem with too many RAWs to look over, too. But I just say 'meh' and take a break if I find myself spending too much time in one sitting. The best part IMO would be bumping a dead thread to promote your link when you're finally done lol.

SolarTempest
06-04-2006, 11:42 PM
Very true. This though is what seperates people who are great photographers from those who are good photographers; the ability to take good shots no matter the conditions.
So true! My ratio for pictures last weekend being technically good is probably >85%, mostly because I bracket shots when there's a chance I'm not spot on.

With people however, blinking, and poses that don't work out quite right drop me down to about 50%. Honestly, I think if you're shooting with a >30% turnout ratio, you're doing well.