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Admin
08-01-2006, 05:27 AM
I am going to be opening up the paid member upgrades shortly, possibly next week.

Aside from the upgraded accounts which are mostly geared toward cosplayers and regular surfers, I have been putting together an upgraded account setup specifically for photographers. Because this has the outside potential to earn people money, these will cost more than regular upgraded accounts. Additionally you will be able to utilize Cosplay.com to announce that you are available for photoshoots at specific conventions, which, because of our traffic base, stands to connect you with quite a few people who are seeking a photographer for their group.

These accounts grant you a special, additional profile page on the site where you can advertise your services. Because this is Cosplay.com, ONLY cosplay-related photo work will be allowed, lest we wind up being inundated with photographers from all over the place just trying to get clients. You can put up your occasional modeling shot in your photographer profile, but your profile must be overwhelmingly (and that means like at least 95%) cosplay oriented. Again, this is COSPLAY.com, and I am adding things for the cosplay hobby only.

Some of the bonuses you get are as follows:


Photographer Profile Page (an expanded info page for photographers only)
Member Feedback (you can disable this, but obviously a lot of good feedback from your photo sessions will help)
Automatically inserted into the Photographer Keyword List (I'll explain that a bit later, but it's a good thing, I promise :) Those of you used to Digital Asset Management systems will love it. )
A little camera next to all of your posts, denoting that you are a registered photographer.
A special showcase gallery of up to 20 images which will go onto your extra profile page and also rotated in a registered photographer gallery.
Convention Listings whereby you can be inserted into a database of photographers available for photoshoots at a specific convention. Members looking for a photographer can go to that convention and see that you're available. You can do this for free, for profit, however you want to handle it.
Default links to your personal photo sites, OMP profiles, ModelMayhem profiles, etc.
Permission to list your pricing on your profile page, if you want.
Any private photoshoots you do may be flagged to go onto a private shoot page. These must, of course, be actual private shoots and not just collections of photos.


You also get all regular features from the normal upgraded accounts, which I will be announcing shortly to all site members.

You are still not allowed to spam or advertise your services in the forums or in actual photos. I want to keep these forums as spam-free as possible. It is my opinion that just having this new section will drive a lot of interest toward the photographers who choose to utilize it, and what you do with it from there is up to you. I will be adding the little photographer icon to all of your images and posts, and I predict the icon will become a bit of a recognizable brand here after a very short period of time.

Additionally I will not tolerate on-site competition between photographers. This means no bagging on any "competition" in advertising, or attempting to convince people why they should go with your prices instead of other people's prices, free or otherwise. You can list your prices, and your info, but you may not hard sell the members here.

What I am offering everyone is a way to utilize Cosplay.com to push their photography forward from both a creative and a business standpoint. There will be no exceptions on the upgrade price regardless of whether or not you are doing this for financial reasons. You're either upgraded, or you're not. :) You will be showcased on this website, and with our massive traffic base that can be extremely advantageous even if you're not doing it for financial reasons.

Each profile page WILL have a discliamer on the bottom, saying how Cosplay.com does not and cannot warrant the validity of anyone who registers as a photographer on the site, and that it is up to the potential client to do all the research, blah blah. Your standard stuff.

So anyway, let's talk a bit about this as I am open to suggestions for other things that can be added to these accounts, from a photographer standpoint. Being a photographer myself I am redesigning the galleries with photographers in mind, so that's not an issue. All extra features are not set in stone. What I'm looking for are suggestions of simple little things I can add that will make this a worthwhile feature on the site for all of you.

jtnishi
08-01-2006, 10:44 AM
This whole thing sounds pretty good. Will the little camera icon (or some kind of marker identifying photographers) also spread over to whenever we post images into a regular gallery?

And lest I spoil any surprises, are you willing to drop a hint about the price we might be paying for these privileges?

Admin
08-01-2006, 01:50 PM
The goal is to have the icon spread everywhere you post any content onto the site. So it'll appear in your posts, in every image you upload, and possibly elsewhere.

I haven't finalized the price yet, but the regular account upgrades are going to be $25 per year. These will be a higher but split up to be quarterly renewals.

Godly
08-01-2006, 05:29 PM
I really wasn't planning on utilizing this upgrade when it came to fruition, but after reading your plans and vision on what it's about I think I change my mind.

One thing I wanted to ask about was linking of photos in galleries. For instance, it may just be me, but I dislike multiple postings of the same photos. This is usually the case though when photos are posted in a photographer's coscom gallery and then a different member puts it in their gallery. Is it of any consideration to like be able to have a photographer account add the photo ID of another member into a photographer gallery if they took the photo? So it'll look like the usual thumbnails in the photographer's gallery, but when clicked on it goes to the actual member's photo so they get the traffic in their gallery. I think it's encouraging because the photographer's usually don't want to post their work here if the subjects are posting it.

Test Type
08-01-2006, 06:04 PM
Hi,

That sounds like a good idea.

Will Photographers have the ability to organize their images with sub-directories etc?

Will Photographers still be restricted to images that are no larger than 640x640 and 120Kb?

Also will it be possible for another site member to link to the image from the Photographers gallery? I think you said that you had this functionality in mind a while ago.

Thanks.

Trelyon
08-01-2006, 06:26 PM
exceptional idea... i do like the icon... yes it'll catch on like wild fire here

4 tiers membership...

regular member... base rate
non-profit photographer... base X 1.5
pro-photographer... base X 10 (or X 15)
gold / life-time member... base X 25 (or X 30?)

Ollie
08-01-2006, 07:48 PM
One thing I wanted to ask about was linking of photos in galleries. For instance, it may just be me, but I dislike multiple postings of the same photos. This is usually the case though when photos are posted in a photographer's coscom gallery and then a different member puts it in their gallery. [...] I think it's encouraging because the photographer's usually don't want to post their work here if the subjects are posting it.

I like your idea but I think it's unfeasable from a consistiency viewpoint. Using an alias (sounds like some significant PHP / SQL work) would be nice, and would probably cut down on storage space. However, I can imagine a number of cases where this might not work so well. For one, you may want comments on composition, setting, color, contrast, or such, whereas the cosplayer probably wants craftmanship feedback or the like.

Cosplayers also may tend to like shots different than the ones the photographer likes. I put my favorites up in a gallery because I believe they're good photographs (or at least have some other particular interest). A cosplayer may choose other photos I took because they show off the costume better, or maybe just a matter of personal choice. I'm a firm believer in editing, so only the absolute best is what I try to show off. (I have a website where photos are dumped, and gallery for me to use as something of a portfolio.) What happens when the cosplayer uses a picture you just don't want to link to? People would rightly wonder if maybe it was missed, altered, or whatnot.

Personally, I don't mind if somebody alters the photo in post processing. I consider all cosplay photography I've done TFP; if it makes the subject happy to bump around the saturation a bit or such, they're welcome to do that. So it's still the "same" photo, but doesn't look quite the same. Again, there seems to be a question of consistiency here.

I'd say a good feature would just to have a dedicated space in the image metadata which would allow for photographer identification. A tag to their cosplay.com photographer's gallery. No, it wouldn't cut down on duplicate entries, but it would establish the link between model and photographer.

Admin
08-01-2006, 07:49 PM
Most of the questions so far can be answered by explaining the workflow I've been putting together:

Say you have a few openings for Ohayocon. You add Ohayocon to your convention planner like now.

You then have the option of flagging the convention as "shoots available", which immediately lists you on the available photographers' list on that convention page on Cosplay.com (Registered Photographer Feature Only).

This links to your profile, containing your contact information, prices if you want to list them, and any past member feedback anyone may have left for you. (Registered Photographer Feature Only).

Bob and Jim contact you about setting up a shoot, you meet up and do the shoot, come home, develop pics, etc.

When you create a gallery, you can flag your gallery as a "private shoot" gallery, which will automatically put it on a private shoot page listing all private shoots from registered photographers on the site. (Registered Photographer Feature Only)

You can upload a header image to appear in your gallery, for design purposes. (Upgraded Member Feature)

You enter Bob and Jim's user ID's into your "People" keyword list for the gallery. This will automatically associate every photo in the gallery with Bob and Jim's accounts. You can, of course, do this on a per-photo level as well if you choose. (Upgraded Member Feature)

If Bob and Jim are upgraded members, your gallery will appear in their gallery list as well. (Must be a Registered Photographer for your gallery to show, and they must be Upgraded Members for it to show. They also have the option of turning this off.).

Your gallery is rotated on the main images.cosplay.com page if you flag it to do so. Each upgraded photographer can choose any of their galleries to rotate on that page. The number of times you appear on that page is based on how many photographers have upgraded. So if we have 25 registered photographers, ONE of your galleries you have flagged will appear on the front page of images.cosplay.com every 25 times someone loads that page. And that page is loaded a LOT. (Registered Photographer Feature Only)

Your gallery is automatically inserted into the gallery list on Cosplay.com's convention page. (Registered Photographers are listed above regular member galleries).

So in the end, this takes care of the problem of members re-posting your work, since you can upload an entire gallery and simply have the photos appear in theirs. Incidentally, you can flag non-private-shoot images on a per-member basis and if they're upgraded members, your images will show up in their gallery with a link to your profile. So if you want to go through your convention pics and link them to members on the site who appear in the photos, it's easy enough. Upgraded members will also be allowed to request this, making it a bit easier for you since simply accepting the request will pop the image over.

For fear of getting too confusing with so much un-illustrated detail, I'll move on to a couple of other questions.

Filesizes - I'd like to go up to 800x for photographers, yes. This would only work if we pop the images into a fitted popup window. I can do even higher but I've never personally seen the need for images higher than about 800-900x on the long end. If anyone can convince me of a reason to go higher, I'm all ears.

Treylon - for pricing, I need to keep non-profit and for-profit photographers in one group. There is absolutely no way for me to tell if someone is non-profit other than taking their word for it. While I'd love to trust everyone, we get a lot of random photographers shuffling through here who had never heard of cosplay until one week prior and would just look at that as an opportunity to get some clients on the cheap.


I'm hoping everyone sees this as a way to really push cosplay photography here from a photographer standpoint. Up until this point the site has been geared toward cosplayers just uploading images they grab from wherever they can find them, and I'd really like to showcase the fact that there are some very exceptional photographers in the ranks who deserve a bit more notoriety as well. Not to mention the fact that there are a lot of unknown photographers who would do the hobby a great service if only they had the means to promote themselves a bit. This makes it easier for everyone, and hopefully a little more fun in the process.

Admin
08-01-2006, 08:09 PM
Oh and as for an ETA on these accounts - I would like to have them up in the 2nd half of August. There is a chance I will have regular member upgrades up and running on Sunday, but I'll be out of town from the 10th through the 16th. Since the photographer accounts are much more technical in nature, I'd like to hold off on them until I'm back in the grind.

Additionally, I look at these sorts of things as evolving. Much like the member accounts will have more and more features added over time, I will always be open for suggestions on ways to improve the photographer accounts as well even after they go live.

Trelyon
08-01-2006, 08:23 PM
Treylon - for pricing, I need to keep non-profit and for-profit photographers in one group. There is absolutely no way for me to tell if someone is non-profit other than taking their word for it. While I'd love to trust everyone, we get a lot of random photographers shuffling through here who had never heard of cosplay until one week prior and would just look at that as an opportunity to get some clients on the cheap.

::nods:: agreed... since a simple banner ad running... around $150/per month on some site... with all the traffic here at cosplay.com - it a good exposure / cost-effective advertising for the "for profit" photographer's business.

i meant reducing a lot of the stated above "photographer" benefits of the 'not for profit' photographer as well as the cost... anyhow... iíll just wait until you post the price ;)

staereo
08-02-2006, 06:47 AM
::nods:: agreed... since a simple banner ad running... around $150/per month on some site... with all the traffic here at cosplay.com - it a good exposure / cost-effective advertising for the "for profit" photographer's business.

i meant reducing a lot of the stated above "photographer" benefits of the 'not for profit' photographer as well as the cost... anyhow... i’ll just wait until you post the price ;)

The only problem is cosplay photography doesnt make money. Period. A 750/day rate is cheap. Show me a cosplayer ready to pay that here?

The problem is, cosplayers arent looking for pro photography work, theyre looking for affordable, good photography.

Any pro photographers that come here, are here because they enjoy cosplay. (OR, perhaps aren't completely pro, charging pro rates.)

I charge far (FAR) less for this work than I would for even a discounted pro job for a client.

Bruce

(Edit: To make it clear, I'm likely to use this service because I would like more opportunities to shoot cosplay photography, and this service will be priceless in that regard. But in the regard of using this service as a means by which to make your living as a photographer would never work, as I'm sure we are all aware, so to charge a semi pro and pro rate wouldnt work, as admin said. Even the pro photographers that choose to shoot cosplay, are probably only covering expenses when they shoot it. Sometimes I don't even cover my expenses, and surely not my time. So the pro photographers doing this for money, are likely only to be making an amateur rate on it, and aren't making a living from it, ala professional. Thus, one rate for photographers makes prety good sense.)

Godly
08-02-2006, 02:05 PM
I like your idea but I think it's unfeasable from a consistiency viewpoint. Using an alias (sounds like some significant PHP / SQL work) would be nice, and would probably cut down on storage space. However, I can imagine a number of cases where this might not work so well. For one, you may want comments on composition, setting, color, contrast, or such, whereas the cosplayer probably wants craftmanship feedback or the like.

Cosplayers also may tend to like shots different than the ones the photographer likes. [...] What happens when the cosplayer uses a picture you just don't want to link to? People would rightly wonder if maybe it was missed, altered, or whatnot. [...]

Even though Admin already addressed the answer to this, I just wanted to answer those questions from what I was thinking, Ollie. My thought wasn't to 'automatically' assign photo links from members to your gallery (that wouldn't seem possible anyways). I purely meant if you WANT to, then you can link a member's photo to your gallery so it shows up there but the link from your gallery goes to the actual photo in their gallery. This should answer the questions of like comments directed to the photographer and photos that the photographer doesn't like. It's up to the PERSON to decide what photo to link. No reason why they'd have to link all their photos. Same for altered photos. You don't have to link to it if you don't want to. However, I think it's common courtesy for the members to note that they altered the photo from it's original form anyways so it's not a big deal. I have yet to see a cosplay photo that was altered get any complaints from the person that took it. Hell, lots of established photographers here release their hi-res's.

In any event, it looks like this feature is being done anyways in a fancier fashion.

deleriumx
08-02-2006, 02:25 PM
I am excited to see this in action. It sounds like it was very well thought out.

Trelyon
08-02-2006, 04:56 PM
The only problem is cosplay photography doesnt make money. Period. A 750/day rate is cheap. Show me a cosplayer ready to pay that here?
(Edit: Thus, one rate for photographers makes prety good sense.)

Bruce - very true... i agree completely... also i know how much my g/f paid for the materials for her costumes... so aye... she would rather spend $2200 on more cosplay materials than for a pro photoshoot... ::snickers::

- Alex

staereo
08-03-2006, 04:29 AM
Bruce - very true... i agree completely... also i know how much my g/f paid for the materials for her costumes... so aye... she would rather spend $2200 on more cosplay materials than for a pro photoshoot... ::snickers::

- Alex
Exactly. :bigtu:

Photorusse
08-03-2006, 06:19 AM
I agree also. I think most photographers here do the cosplay because they enjoy working with cosplayers, not for the money. It's another way of appreciating their hard work. I'm ready for this also; I'm tired of feeling all greasy on this site for wanting to do what I love to do but being relegated to the spam area.

staereo
08-03-2006, 07:20 AM
I agree also. I think most photographers here do the cosplay because they enjoy working with cosplayers, not for the money. It's another way of appreciating their hard work. I'm ready for this also; I'm tired of feeling all greasy on this site for wanting to do what I love to do but being relegated to the spam area.

Cheers :cheers:

Ami Yuy
08-05-2006, 09:45 PM
o.o This all sounds really awesome. XD

I personally don't mind duplicate postings of the same picture. As a cosplayer I want my own version in my gallery for my future reference with my own comment, but if I'm using a linked photo and the photographer for some reason removes it later, them I'm out of luck. As a photographer, well I wouldn't mind if it were duplicated in a cosplayer's gallery, but I also don't mind if they re-upload it to their own.

I'd say a good feature would just to have a dedicated space in the image metadata which would allow for photographer identification. A tag to their cosplay.com photographer's gallery. No, it wouldn't cut down on duplicate entries, but it would establish the link between model and photographer.
*nods* This is something I find missing from the comment area under the photos.

I'd love to see two more sections added: "Cosplayer" and "Photographer"
(and maybe even a "Convention" one as well)

I mean, sure, some of us add it in the comments, but it would be so much easier to add it in it's own little box. Perhaps even have their name to link to their Cosplay.com profile if they're a member.

Ami Yuy
08-06-2006, 01:15 AM
I hate posting right after a previous one, but this is several hours later...

Filesizes - I'd like to go up to 800x for photographers, yes. This would only work if we pop the images into a fitted popup window. I can do even higher but I've never personally seen the need for images higher than about 800-900x on the long end. If anyone can convince me of a reason to go higher, I'm all ears.
It just occurred to me as I'm editing right now...what about the actual file size (in kilobytes)? Please say it'll be larger than 120kb, because if it's not, then there's no point in me uploading anything bigger than 640px, which I have trouble getting under 120kb sometimes. ;_;

Admin
08-06-2006, 01:58 AM
The photo script has been storing a copy of all source photos uploaded since last September, up to 1024 pixels on the long end and 300KB in size. At least I think it has - I know there's a huge folder of about 11Gigs in size on the server filled with a copy of all photos that were resized down to 640. :)

This was planned way in advance, so that everyone upgrading to a photographer account doesn't have to replace their larger version images. Where we choose to put the default cutoff size at is subject to debate. The photos that we started saving larger versions of start around image # 431300.

Test Type
08-06-2006, 10:46 AM
The photo script has been storing a copy of all source photos uploaded since last September, up to 1024 pixels on the long end and 300KB in size. At least I think it has - I know there's a huge folder of about 11Gigs in size on the server filled with a copy of all photos that were resized down to 640. :)

This was planned way in advance, so that everyone upgrading to a photographer account doesn't have to replace their larger version images. Where we choose to put the default cutoff size at is subject to debate. The photos that we started saving larger versions of start around image # 431300.

OK, I wish I had known this in advance.

I try to make sure my images are within the maximum size limits to prevent resizing by the server. I'm just not sure how good a job the server-side software would do compared to doing it before I upload - but now that I know you store larger images I will probably do a few tests to see.

One thing that really annoys me is having to drop the size of the image to 120kB or less. This size restriction is one thing I would really like to see gone but if images can be 800 pixels on a side I don't think that 300kB will be enough.

Right, Iíve tested it and as expected it's better to upload images that are the correct size to begin with. The server-side image reduction uses a quality setting that it much lower than the one I use (max under 120kB). The test images from the server are 45.1kB while my images are 112kB and there is a visible reduction in quality.

Admin
08-06-2006, 02:44 PM
If we allow a larger size, you will be able to upload a larger version independent of the 640x* regular display version rather than have the server software downsize one main file. The current batch of saved larger images is there as a convenience for those who may wish to convert to a photographer account but not subsequently re-up tons and tons of images.

The server saves images at quality 85.

At 800x600, a 300KB limit is more than enough @ 72dpi, even at quality settings above 90.

Ami Yuy
08-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Right, Iíve tested it and as expected it's better to upload images that are the correct size to begin with. The server-side image reduction uses a quality setting that it much lower than the one I use (max under 120kB). The test images from the server are 45.1kB while my images are 112kB and there is a visible reduction in quality.
Exactly.

I've known about the server saving the larger images, but after having some 640px ones that I accidentally saved at 150kb resized down and getting some pretty icky blurring on them, I've been sticking with uploading a "finished" 640px, 120kb image all the time.

If we allow a larger size, you will be able to upload a larger version independent of the 640x* regular display version rather than have the server software downsize one main file. The current batch of saved larger images is there as a convenience for those who may wish to convert to a photographer account but not subsequently re-up tons and tons of images.

The server saves images at quality 85.

At 800x600, a 300KB limit is more than enough @ 72dpi, even at quality settings above 90.
Eh, perhaps, but let's see *goes to test*

Okay, I'm convinced. I just tested a picture that when sized down to 640x480 I had to compress to 50% to get it under 120kb, but at 800x600 I didn't have to go below 70% to get it under 300kb. It's not 90%, but it's a heck of a lot better than 50%.

I have a lot of really colorful images so that's where I run into problems with the 120kb limit, especially with some of my Sakura pics...JPEG compression really hates red. -_-;

I do like that we would be able to upload a different display image as well as the larger one, I'd be totally willing to take that extra step (Photoshop actions are my friend) to make sure my pictures display nicely in all versions.

Godly
08-07-2006, 03:24 AM
Yea I actually would've reuploaded every single photo that got autoresized when the change happened, but when I noticed it also changed the photo's date, I stopped doing it. The date of the photo is kinda important to me.

I felt really strongly about the higher than 640px size the moment the change happened (opted for 800px), but if only photographer upgrades get higher than 640px/120kb and all other accounts don't, then to me there isn't much of a point in uploading higher file/image sizes. Reason being that if the photographer uploaded all these larger files of con photos and then someone wanted to use it in their gallery, they'd probably upload it to their gallery and then the site would autoresize it. So then the photographer would be irked to have a downsized version of their photo instead of a properly sized one just for them.

It's dependent on the lowest common denominator.

But I can see a use of the 800px in the photographers special gallery thingie, definitely.

Demonsun
08-08-2006, 01:54 AM
I would Still Like to find out the file size limits, I don't like compressing my images that much. Mainly because as ami yuy said, jpeg hates reds, and i tend to shoot with a white balance that favors red.

Admin
08-08-2006, 04:20 AM
Most likely we'll be going with 800x600 and 300KB max. Please remember though that the general photo browsing area will still show the 120KB max size 640x photo, otherwise it won't fit in the layout and would severely increase the bandwidth usage here. Any larger file size will be available as a link to a popup or another window, should the surfer choose to view it.

Fighterspledge
08-11-2006, 10:39 AM
Hey, I looked though the plans and I see that we can utilize it to promote availibility for photoshoots which is really cool. But will that be limited to the convention schedules or can we make availibility for whenever?

Efecss
08-11-2006, 11:49 PM
Hmmm. The idea is intriguing, and does sound like a good one. But, it also does sound limited to conventions with "cosplay", and not "costuming." Like BayCon, SiliCon, NorwestCon and WorldCon(s), and some of the other non-anime conventions.

Now, as I understand this (Because I just read this about 20 minutes ago, and haven't fully digested the contents.) This would be like a place where people can make arrangments with others to do photosessions, or find pictures of themselves in a much larger format? (Basically) Be it at a convention or in a geographic area...

For me, I am indeed interested. Because of my endevours to make a costume/cosplay magazine (Which is a zine right now.) Plus, I am always interested in doing more photography with someone.

Could this also be used for someone to advertise such a publication, and/or photomaipulation services?

I am going to print this out tonight and read it, and really disect this and hopefully have some more coherent questions for later.

Hexlord
08-16-2006, 05:45 AM
This sounds like an interesting idea indeed :)

For me personally, cosplay photoshoots have always been on a free or low cost basis, with the additional cost being the archival of the photos once the shoot is completed.

I would love to get such an account but I am not based in the US!

Efecss
08-18-2006, 08:03 PM
I have read the idea as best as possible (Too many family matters to really digest it right now...) I do like what I see. But, it seems to me that basically this is basically like an add on to the profile which is just basically tagged on.

In my way of seeing it, it is almost the same as someone going to each convention section in the forum and saying: "Hey, I'm going to be here, does anyone want to be photographed by me at a certain time?" Yes, some of the extras do sound helpful and good, but I am not sure if it would justify a $25 fee...?

The basic idea of this is a great one, The general thought seems to be well made and I like it to death. But I'm not seeing the "meat" of me giving up $25 for making something, where I can go to the forum section, to each convention and put up something saying: "Does anyone want to scheduel a photo session with me?"

staereo
08-18-2006, 09:01 PM
But I'm not seeing the "meat" of me giving up $25 for making something, where I can go to the forum section, to each convention and put up something saying: "Does anyone want to scheduel a photo session with me?"

I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that this is prohibited. Any inquiries of this sort are limited to the spam section afaik. But Im not a moderator or anything, so who knows.

Efecss
08-19-2006, 03:49 AM
I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that this is prohibited. Any inquiries of this sort are limited to the spam section afaik. But Im not a moderator or anything, so who knows.

I could be wrong, too. But I do remember seeing something like this. I think Ziggy did this last year for Ani-Magic...
(Again, I could be wrong, brain's been a bit scrabled with problems as of late.)

staereo
08-19-2006, 06:54 AM
I think Ziggy did this last year for Ani-Magic...

Ohhh... see, I didn't even know that. I never bothered asking because I figured it was prohibited. But moderators would know best, so since Ziggy's a moderator, I'm probably out in left field. Cool enough. :bigtu:

jtnishi
08-19-2006, 01:46 PM
I have read the idea as best as possible (Too many family matters to really digest it right now...) I do like what I see. But, it seems to me that basically this is basically like an add on to the profile which is just basically tagged on.

In my way of seeing it, it is almost the same as someone going to each convention section in the forum and saying: "Hey, I'm going to be here, does anyone want to be photographed by me at a certain time?" Yes, some of the extras do sound helpful and good, but I am not sure if it would justify a $25 fee...?

The basic idea of this is a great one, The general thought seems to be well made and I like it to death. But I'm not seeing the "meat" of me giving up $25 for making something, where I can go to the forum section, to each convention and put up something saying: "Does anyone want to scheduel a photo session with me?"
That's a fight that everyone internally is going to have to go through. But let me pose a few points: personally, I think it's going to be acknowledgible that from a financial standpoint, the fee for the upgraded account is not going to be made up in benefits. This is especially true given that many of the photographers who haunt the forums don't make a living doing photography for their work. And the few that do probably wouldn't value the service itself as much as the extended services at other sites.

But remember: Kyle, the admin, does NOT make any money on the site itself, currently. The money he makes comes from sales of stuff at the Cosworx store. I don't know the exact cost of the bandwidth for the site, but I'm guessing it's safe to assume it's at least 4 figures PER MONTH. Over the course of a year, it's certain that the cost to run this site is at least 5 figures.

In case you doubt this, think about how many pictures get uploaded per month, and think about how many views an average picture gets, and think about the size of each picture. Bandwidth usage on the site is almost certainly beyond gigabytes. The site I work on has gone through 50-60 gigabytes of bandwidth a month, and that's just from a collection of maybe 10000 pictures. There's nearly a MILLION pictures here. We're talking about terabytes here, not gigabytes. And bandwidth on that level is NOT cheap.

Part of the justification for getting the expanded account has to come from the idea that you want to support the community in some way, by helping the Admin to offset the massive bills that comes from running a site like this. In exchange, you get a few benefits that, yes, are nice and helpful. Don't think of this as buying a service from a business. Think of it more like donating to your favorite public broadcast station or public radio station.

Edit: As a coda to the other stuff added to this topic: the mods can do what the mods can do. Partially, the reason is because Admin's been a little slow putting in a photoshoots subforum for this stuff, but given the amount of time that CosWorx has almost certainly sucked out of his schedule, that's probably not much of a surprise.

Ami Yuy
08-19-2006, 02:28 PM
I could be wrong, too. But I do remember seeing something like this. I think Ziggy did this last year for Ani-Magic...
(Again, I could be wrong, brain's been a bit scrabled with problems as of late.)
I think the resoning I've seen given for that is that it's kind of in lieu of Admin's shoots which were offered in much the same format a year or two ago. EurobeatKing's done it as well. They're site staff, so they're special. ^_^

But, it seems to me that basically this is basically like an add on to the profile which is just basically tagged on.
Well, the in-gallery portions definately aren't: larger sizes, more exposure, etc.

In my way of seeing it, it is almost the same as someone going to each convention section in the forum and saying: "Hey, I'm going to be here, does anyone want to be photographed by me at a certain time?" Yes, some of the extras do sound helpful and good, but I am not sure if it would justify a $25 fee...?

The basic idea of this is a great one, The general thought seems to be well made and I like it to death. But I'm not seeing the "meat" of me giving up $25 for making something, where I can go to the forum section, to each convention and put up something saying: "Does anyone want to scheduel a photo session with me?"
There will be a seperate section that is dedicated to it, I'm assuming that it will still be PROHIBITED to do this in the actual convention forum, as it is now.

I see the $25 as helping cover the large bandwidth that always goes with photos. Similar to what Jason said. So at least the larger photos that we're getting will be (hopefully) covered for bandwidth costs and perhaps a teensy bit can overflow to the rest of the site. I mean, he could just make the charge for allowing us to upload larger pictures, but instead he's added some really cool features that will allow us to get a TON of exposure.

Efecss
08-19-2006, 04:17 PM
That's a fight that everyone internally is going to have to go through. But let me pose a few points: personally, I think it's going to be acknowledgible that from a financial standpoint, the fee for the upgraded account is not going to be made up in benefits. This is especially true given that many of the photographers who haunt the forums don't make a living doing photography for their work. And the few that do probably wouldn't value the service itself as much as the extended services at other sites.

But remember: Kyle, the admin, does NOT make any money on the site itself, currently. The money he makes comes from sales of stuff at the Cosworx store. I don't know the exact cost of the bandwidth for the site, but I'm guessing it's safe to assume it's at least 4 figures PER MONTH. Over the course of a year, it's certain that the cost to run this site is at least 5 figures.

In case you doubt this, think about how many pictures get uploaded per month, and think about how many views an average picture gets, and think about the size of each picture. Bandwidth usage on the site is almost certainly beyond gigabytes. The site I work on has gone through 50-60 gigabytes of bandwidth a month, and that's just from a collection of maybe 10000 pictures. There's nearly a MILLION pictures here. We're talking about terabytes here, not gigabytes. And bandwidth on that level is NOT cheap.

Part of the justification for getting the expanded account has to come from the idea that you want to support the community in some way, by helping the Admin to offset the massive bills that comes from running a site like this. In exchange, you get a few benefits that, yes, are nice and helpful. Don't think of this as buying a service from a business. Think of it more like donating to your favorite public broadcast station or public radio station.

Edit: As a coda to the other stuff added to this topic: the mods can do what the mods can do. Partially, the reason is because Admin's been a little slow putting in a photoshoots subforum for this stuff, but given the amount of time that CosWorx has almost certainly sucked out of his schedule, that's probably not much of a surprise.

Okay, I agree with everything you have said. I know bandwidth is getting up there. I recently had to just cutback my internet service to just email and web surfing. I had a webpage, which I had to take down because it the price was getting up there.

(And, just as a side note: I've recently had to take two more jobs because we were three days late with a house payment and the bank is threatening to foreclose. And PG&E shut us down for a whole month for basically the same reason.)

And I also agree that this does sound like a good idea. I'm almost in line to sign up... But int he same vein, I an trying to be, slightly, the Devil's Advocate here.

Because, there can be also a section in each convention forum saying: "Photographers here. (Contact a photographer for a private photoshoot.)" Like there is for room sharing.

(I know I'm going to get knocked for this one.)

Efecss
08-19-2006, 04:34 PM
I think the resoning I've seen given for that is that it's kind of in lieu of Admin's shoots which were offered in much the same format a year or two ago. EurobeatKing's done it as well. They're site staff, so they're special. ^_^

Okay...


There will be a seperate section that is dedicated to it, I'm assuming that it will still be PROHIBITED to do this in the actual convention forum, as it is now.

I see the $25 as helping cover the large bandwidth that always goes with photos. Similar to what Jason said. So at least the larger photos that we're getting will be (hopefully) covered for bandwidth costs and perhaps a teensy bit can overflow to the rest of the site. I mean, he could just make the charge for allowing us to upload larger pictures, but instead he's added some really cool features that will allow us to get a TON of exposure.

Okay, why make larger pictures? Are they going to be 8x10 on the screen? The size I have in my galleries (Even a bit smaller) satisfies me as a good sampling. (Yes, some of them could be scanned in better, but that's my cross to bare.)

What I AM trying to put forth, is that some of these things can be done more "ecconomically" in some other ways. And some of these things may not need to be in there at all.

I am putting my questions up, as I see them. Before I part with my money, I want to know as much as possible from the source. I am trying to get the information I need to really want to do this.

I understand the cost of bandwith. But, I want to make sure that this will do me some good, because I may only be able to attend one or two conventions this year, because I am now working for the state, and have manditory work days which coincide with most convention scheduels. Plus, I live smack dab in the middle of the Sacramento Valley in California (Northern California.) And as far as I can tell, very few people who go to Cosplay.Com live near me.

I have asked a few questions earlier in this thread, and basically am waiting to hear back on those.

skypirate
08-19-2006, 05:25 PM
Part of the justification for getting the expanded account has to come from the idea that you want to support the community in some way, by helping the Admin to offset the massive bills that comes from running a site like this. In exchange, you get a few benefits that, yes, are nice and helpful. Don't think of this as buying a service from a business. Think of it more like donating to your favorite public broadcast station or public radio station.

That's pretty much how I see it, supporting a well managed and moderated site. $25 is a very reasonable amount when compared to photographic equipment or even parking at a con.

Admin
08-19-2006, 05:38 PM
These accounts are designed to give photographers an absolute ton of exposure. There was a time where my own photos were getting viewed well over 100,000 times per day, until I moved them over to the main gallery section to move more of the traffic into the main galleries. I have some galleries with over a million photo views. I consider myself an above-average photographer, but not the best by any means, but the exposure I get on this site is the reason places like COSmode call me to do a feature, or magazines always wanting to use my photos, or cosplayers from all around the world knowing my work. If there is currently one site you will be able to have a chance to gain cosplay photo notoriety from, it's going to be Cosplay.com.

Additionally I have been actively networking with the global cosplay community to bring more international attention to this website. This has involved extensive networking directly in Japan, an upcoming networking trip to Europe, and more. These expenses already come out of the site's proceeds. I have some announcements coming soon on this regard. So not only will you get a TON of exposure, but you will get exposure on an international scale. Already, this site is around 30% non-US traffic, and my goal is to grow it to 50% international by the end of 2007.

That being said, if you're satisfied just taking photos at conventions and throwing them onto the web for people to see, this account won't be for you and I'm not going to push anyone like that into getting it.

But if you're wanting to advertise private shoots directly on this website, and you want to tap into the hundreds of thousands of unique visitors we get to the site every month, the networking I'm doing, the special events I am going to be announcing, and basically have a bona-fide "presence" as a photographer on Cosplay.com, then that is what this account is geared toward.

In all honesty, the bells and whistles being added to the site code for photographers are just aesthetics, your true value is opening up that channel to tap into the tens of thousands of cosplayers who come here to view one thing - cosplay photography.

A brief statement on the profitability of photoshoots posted on Cosplay.com - I had cosplayers offering me $100 for 15 minutes just to get the exposure. I also sold out 25 15-minute slots at $35-50 a pop in under one hour once. There IS a market there. You are 100% on your own when it comes to making sure you have your licensing and permits in order to do this, as well as permission from conventions, but this is proof as to a market existing. I have had success with it when I tested it out, and the main reason I do shoots for free now is because I'd rather choose who to work with if I'm only going to have time to do 5 shoots at a con.

(By the way, jtnishi brought up the other point as to why a cost is justified for this. Cosplay.com costs a lot more to run than people think, and yes the bandwidth is in the 4-figure range each month. Aside from the justification that I am human and am allowed to try to make back my yearly investment, which does include the time I spend working on the site instead of making money somewhere else, I also pride myself in the fact that I have never, ever forced anyone to pay anything here to use this place. And future upgraded pricing is for the addition of NEW features, not for continued use of existing ones. So it's sort of like - if you want to use this site to promote yourself more than the average member can, I am very justified in charging for that privelege.)

Admin
08-19-2006, 05:46 PM
Before the account pricing gets too confused - I need to clarify what I said in the 3rd post of the thread:

I haven't finalized the price yet, but the regular account upgrades are going to be $25 per year. These will be higher but split up to be quarterly renewals.

The regular upgrade is $25 is for a cosplayer wanting to upgrade their account on the site. The photo accounts are higher. How much higher I have not decided on yet, but it is likely to be between $50 and $80 per year, with the ability to pay a quarterly rate instead (i.e. pay a smaller price every three months) so that you don't have to risk a larger amount just to find out you may not utilize the features.

jtnishi
08-19-2006, 10:57 PM
Okay, some of those statistics you're quoting are shocking, Admin. 100,000 views on your pictures per day?!? That's a bloody impressive number. Not to mention the idea that people were offering you $100 for a 15 minute shoot because of the exposure level O_O!! I do remember you constantly selling out on photoshoots whenever you offered the paid ones, and within an hour...

Though it does pose a very interesting point. If you're trying to promote the viability of these accounts for exposure, it does stand to reason that, just like a website whose vying for advertising dollars, shouldn't you give a better idea of what the average page view count per month is for the front page of the website currently? Combining that with the data that's going to come in real terms of what those dollars will buy us in exposure on the site and on the front page, we might get a better idea of how valuable that may be.

It's probably irrelevant to me, the upgrades nice as they are. I still see it as financial support of a cause I spend wholly way too much time working for. But I'm sure for a lot of others, it does matter, since $50-80/year is not a completely trivial amount of money.

Admin
08-19-2006, 11:14 PM
The gallery pages of the site receive anywhere from 300-500,000 pageviews per day, with a few peaks a bit higher after major conventions. The images.cosplay.com domain receives over 250,000 unique IP's logged every month.

The "front" page of the site would be irrelevant in this case because the action is going to occur in the image galleries section only. I assume you're looking for statistics on the affected area. That being said, the galleries get about 70% of the traffic on the site so that's where we'd want it anyway.

The price is also set a bit higher so that we don't get flooded with any tom/dick/harry with a camera who wants to tap into the cosplayer member base here just to get clients. Trust me, they are around and I get complaints about model solicitations in PM boxes on a weekly basis. Having it a bit higher keeps the number of people taking advantage of the place at a minimum.

For reference, if you look at the numbers at the bottom of the forums, that shows how many unique people are viewing the forums and galleries during the last 15 minutes. Usually there are around 800-1200 "guests" on at any time who are basically people coming from search engines, other sites, or just not logging in while viewing the galleries.

staereo
08-20-2006, 12:41 PM
........Cosplay.com costs a lot more to run than people think, and yes the bandwidth is in the 4-figure range each month. Aside from the justification that I am human and am allowed to try to make back my yearly investment, which does include the time I spend working on the site instead of making money somewhere else, I also pride myself in the fact that I have never, ever forced anyone to pay anything here to use this place. And future upgraded pricing is for the addition of NEW features, not for continued use of existing ones. So it's sort of like - if you want to use this site to promote yourself more than the average member can, I am very justified in charging for that privelege....

kudos. and this is why I'll be signing up.

:cheers:

On a side note, will there be a way to link to personal pages. My site's galleries are set up for print purchasing capable galleries, and loading masses of images 4 or 5 at a time on cosplay.com doesnt fit into my schedule. (which is why my gallery here never gets updated)

I'm tossing around the idea of having a single shot here, or small number of shots from a given session that offer the linking capacity to go to the full gallery on my personal website.

Thanks for you time in answering,
Bruce

Efecss
08-22-2006, 03:06 PM
Now, will this be offered to others. Like people who may offer photomanipulation?

staereo
08-22-2006, 06:21 PM
.... Like people who may offer photomanipulation?

Scarey thought. I know if I find out anyone photomanipulated and publically displayed an image to which I owned a copyright, because a cosplayer wanted it photomanipulated and the manipulator did it for them, I would be enfuriated. Use rights for my copyright material almost never include rights to manipulate the image, and i doubt that i will give ANYONE permission to do so. This would open up a can of worms with photographer's copyrighted materials that cosplayers have been given permission to display.

Not sure how the heck it would be regulated.

Bruce

Admin
08-22-2006, 07:58 PM
I agree with staereo on this issue - the main reason I don't allow CG'ing of my own photos is because someone usually grabs one, plays with a bunch of filters and then adds their own copyright to it and slaps it all over the internet. At that point your copyright has been completely diluted, and you rarely if ever receive any mention in the derivative material.

Efecss
08-23-2006, 02:14 AM
I agree with staereo on this issue - the main reason I don't allow CG'ing of my own photos is because someone usually grabs one, plays with a bunch of filters and then adds their own copyright to it and slaps it all over the internet. At that point your copyright has been completely diluted, and you rarely if ever receive any mention in the derivative material.

Uh-oh.... No, no, no, no, no, no, no....

I mean, someone offering their services to do photomanipulation for someone. You know, they send someone a picture of their own, and say: "Hey, put me on the space shuttle."

Sorry, I didn't complete the thought...

staereo
08-23-2006, 09:20 AM
I mean, someone offering their services to do photomanipulation for someone. You know, they send someone a picture of their own, and say: "Hey, put me on the space shuttle."

I think we grabbed that concept. From experiences as photographers, we both know the following things:

1) Clients (cosplayers) may not read a photographers usage rights when they sign it. Then they will not realize it's a violation of usage rights to have it modified.

2) Clients (cosplayers) may not care about usage rights, and assume the photographer will never see it, OR, the photographer won't push the issue. They will assume they can get away with it because they are not a commercial client.

3) Clients (cosplayers) may just forget that the images are copyrighted and they are using them. They will inadvertantly violate a copyright because they didn't know better.

One of these 3 things will have them take an image out of their gallery, and give it to a photo manipulator. Even if the graphic artist is a reputable one, they could ask the cosplayer if the cosplayer holds rights. If the cosplayer agrees and signs a form saying so, the artist will manipulate the image, thus violating the photographers rights. The artist did nothing wrong from what he/she knew, yet the photographer still got their image rights violated.

Without some sort of controls, this could become an ugly mess for the middle man, who is hosting the images. He'll end up getting DMCA takedown notices everywhere, and icky letters for things that he had NO control over. Then cosplayers will have their feelings hurt, when he has to remove images and/or block accounts, and the graphic artist will get their feelings hurt when the same thing happens.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE graphic artists. I have 2 contacts that I regularly use for work. But this sort of thing needs to be done in the step between the photographer and the cosplayer. The cosplayer is the end user, and we'd end up making the cosplayer the client of the artist. It just isn't something that I think would work out here without a bunch of hurt feelings.

Even if the intention is to have an image modified that the cosplayer captured, it wouldn't end up that way. Despite many images being taken by timers and tripods, I am going to have to say, with all the con pictures I've seen in peoples galleries, that the majority of images in cosplayers galleries were taken by individuals other than the cosplayer that is featured in them. This means theres a photographer that owns that copyright out there. And without a shadow of a doubt, with or without rights to do so, the cosplayers would submit those images to be modified just as quickly as the ones they took with the self timer of themselves.

Its a good idea, just not one that I think the admin would be able to police, and would wind up being shut down.

Bruce

Oklahoma
08-23-2006, 06:04 PM
Pretty much all of my questions have already been answered on this but I do have one. I notice that most people do not upload near as many pictures as photographers will at one time. As I slowly take more and more at a convention it starts to become a daunting task to upload all of them 5 at a time. For most 5 at a time is fine as they will not be uploading 500+ for one thing. But for those of us that will, will there be an option to upload more at a time so that it doesn't take as much time to do. I do not have internet at my apartment and use it durring lunch or before I leave work and at the library currently. Both do not allow me lots of time to sit and do it 5 images at a time. So, my question is will there be an option to upload more than 5 or will it still be 5 at a time?

Admin
08-23-2006, 07:19 PM
I can set up a zip-file upload for photographer accounts, sure. It'll take a bit more coding but if it benefits the accounts, why not.

Ami Yuy
08-23-2006, 11:19 PM
I can set up a zip-file upload for photographer accounts, sure. It'll take a bit more coding but if it benefits the accounts, why not.
What about FTP uploads?


Also on the topic of photomanipulators - 90% of them would have official artwork of some sort of them, a nightmare just waiting to happen.

Admin
08-23-2006, 11:35 PM
I'm a bit wary of FTP uploading, but I can set things up to allow certain members larger zip file uploads. THe script then would open the zip file, grap all of the photos from it, and batch add them to a gallery you specify.

The photomanipulation thing is not really what I have in mind for the spirit of the accounts, so while I'm not going to go so far as to stop you from advertising it as a service on your photography profile page, in all honesty I don't think you'd get much action with it, nor would I think many photographers would be very happy about it. For example, if you, say, took one of my photos and manipulated it for a cosplayer, each of you would be in breach of my copyright.

Additionally, anything you add into the image that turns it into something more than a slight CG would probably get removed from the galleries to begin with.

Staereo summed the other issues up a bit more eloquently and specifically.

Danners
08-29-2006, 01:09 PM
I'm finding this idea of a Photographer account interesting, and I don't find the cost to be that high as it can be considered advertising (which normally costs more). However I do have some concerns/questions:

1) I too am concerned about only being able to set shots up at specific cons. I'm a photographer who dabbles in cosplay, and at conventions I find it hard to do both (but I sure try! :P). If there was an option to set up shoots outside of conventions, this interests me more as convention halls typically don't offer great photo areas. Also, if it's only at cons, I don't think I'd be able to recoup my costs (travelling fees, hotels, etc) and the subscription fee.

2) You mention that certain photos that you took get lots of hits, and it's amazing how high those numbers climb. However, you can't forget that you give yourself front page space, which of course gets lots of attention. If a photographer were to subscribe to this service, would you offer a small front page spot? Perhaps a space that would randomly load a photographer's profile (photographer of the day perhaps?), or a field search for people to find a photographer in their location or attending a specific con? If I have to rely on a person digging through profiles to find me, again, I may not be able to recoup costs.

3) Not sure if I missed reading it, but will there be a "Photographer" section? That is a list of photogrpaher on the site, with profiles, that people can browse, just like they can browse cosplayers? Again this just relates to wanting people to have an easy time browsing for a photographer.

That's all I can think of so far! Again, this is really an interesting idea!

staereo
08-29-2006, 01:47 PM
I'm not a moderator, and certainly not the administrator, but I think I can respond a little to this, with partial success. I hope I'm understanding this right, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt, as Admin would be the one who knows this stuff, not me. BUUUUT let me try, from one member to another...


1) I too am concerned about only being able to set shots up at specific cons. I'm a photographer who dabbles in cosplay, and at conventions I find it hard to do both (but I sure try! :P). If there was an option to set up shoots outside of conventions, this interests me more as convention halls typically don't offer great photo areas. Also, if it's only at cons, I don't think I'd be able to recoup my costs (travelling fees, hotels, etc) and the subscription fee.
I could be way out there, but I don't believe this runs off of individual booking software. That sort of software is almost ALWAYS subsription based software. I have looked into it for my photography work and it just isn't economical. It tends to be high maitanance, and without the admin hiring people to maintain it, this sort of software isn't able to be properly administrated. If he were to hire a staff to do this work, it would drive the prices up on the accounts to an extent that noone could afford the accounts. After all cosplayers don't pay photographer rates for their sessions. (If I'm wrong, please, the first cosplayer willing to hand me a discounted half day rate of $400-500 for 4 hours of my time, please stand up. I'm confident there are no hands.) If admin had to charge the amount it would take to retain and maintain this software on his website, none of us would bother to get the membership. It is unfeasable. Instead, he offers an easy way to make it known that we are covering an even that's a centralized focus point for would-be 'clients' or what I would consider subjects. This allows exposure for photographers that would like to shoot cosplayers. In addition, the ability for a cosplayer to address you for a shoot outside of convention shoots is perfectly feasable, AND probable. You're a simple PM away. There's nothing that says you CAN'T accept business from inquiries outside of convention shoots. It's just not something that can be openly booked for every photographer. Not a big deal at all if you ask me. As a side note, the best revenue a photographer can make is from a grouping of cosplayers. This goes for almost any sort of 'organization' photography. If I wanted to shoot corporate portraits, it would be far more economical to rent a hotel room once, a flight ticket once, and shoot 20 executives in one group of sessions, rather than 20 seperate tickets, 20 seperate flights, and 20 individual sessions. In the same vein, a convention is a grouping of your subjects. Lining up a schedule of cosplayers that want to work with you during a con allows you to get the most sessions in at the least expense per session. In effect, this is your highest session to expense ratio. So the idea of con scheduling is the most benefitial to photographers interested in shooting cosplayers. The subscription fee is INSANELY low, and should be understood that you're not joining because you want to be a pro photographer and use this as a means to business. This is a means to explore cosplay photography easier. As far as the subscriptions that I currently subscribe to, this will probably be one of the cheapest. And I'm doing it because it is something I like to do and hope to do more of. Its a good opportunity for just that.

2) You mention that certain photos that you took get lots of hits, and it's amazing how high those numbers climb. However, you can't forget that you give yourself front page space, which of course gets lots of attention. If a photographer were to subscribe to this service, would you offer a small front page spot? Perhaps a space that would randomly load a photographer's profile (photographer of the day perhaps?), or a field search for people to find a photographer in their location or attending a specific con? If I have to rely on a person digging through profiles to find me, again, I may not be able to recoup costs.

Such a small subcription fee, however, if what you are trying to do is drum up as much business as you can, I'm sure an easy add on to your service is to purchase some banner space from Admin. Its not that pricey, to be honest. However, I think you'll find people WILL seek you out. I have noticed this without even having this photography section yet.

3) Not sure if I missed reading it, but will there be a "Photographer" section? That is a list of photogrpaher on the site, with profiles, that people can browse, just like they can browse cosplayers? Again this just relates to wanting people to have an easy time browsing for a photographer.
I believe the answer is yes. But I don't really know, so sorry about not being helpful there. It would make sense, though, since there are cosplayer sections. If not, Im sure a search would make it quickly possible.


I hope I helped answer some concerns, hopefully I'm not too far out there.

Bruce :bigtu:

Danners
08-29-2006, 02:49 PM
There's nothing that says you CAN'T accept business from inquiries outside of convention shoots. It's just not something that can be openly booked for every photographer. [SNIP] As far as the subscriptions that I currently subscribe to, this will probably be one of the cheapest. And I'm doing it because it is something I like to do and hope to do more of. Its a good opportunity for just that.

Totally understandable. I myself actively seek out possible people in my area by telling friends of friends of friends. Word of mouth is often the best kind of advertising :P

Again, similar to Efecss concerns is that if I plan to spend the money on a subscription, I have to feel I'm getting my worth out of it. I understand that if it's at $50-$80, then it's a fairly inexpensive subscription. But if all I'm getting is a photographer icon in my name and what seems to be linked galleries, that doesn't seem like it's enough (for me).

If I'm just paying to access the "potential" client base, then that's a different story. We all understand Cosplay.com has a GIGANTIC community, but if I can only schedule appointments at a con, that community is drastically reduced to a very narrow group, depending on your location (mine being Toronto) and what conventions you can attend. I suppose people can always PM you, or follow your links to your main page to contact you.

Such a small subcription fee, however, if what you are trying to do is drum up as much business as you can, I'm sure an easy add on to your service is to purchase some banner space from Admin. Its not that pricey, to be honest. However, I think you'll find people WILL seek you out. I have noticed this without even having this photography section yet.

Lucky! :P As for an ad, I may have to look in to it. However, being Canadian, my concern is people going "Wow! nice work. Oh wait, he's in Canada" being an problem :P


I hope I helped answer some concerns, hopefully I'm not too far out there.

Bruce :bigtu:

Definately helped out. In the end, if the current ideas are the ones implemented, then I may just try it out for a 1/4 year, play with the features and see if it a service for me.

staereo
08-29-2006, 05:30 PM
Again, similar to Efecss concerns is that if I plan to spend the money on a subscription, I have to feel I'm getting my worth out of it. I understand that if it's at $50-$80, then it's a fairly inexpensive subscription. But if all I'm getting is a photographer icon in my name and what seems to be linked galleries, that doesn't seem like it's enough (for me).

Completely understandable. I sometimes forget about views from people outside the photography 'zone'. My perspective is skewed slightly to the photography world. In the following subscriptions, the only exposure you get is a name and contact info listed, except a couple where you get a portfolio page. In most cases (not all, omp is an example of an exception) your information is often only available to other members too. You get nothing beyond that, and that is the MOST you get from any of them as far as exposure/business.

PPA - US$273.00/yr
OMP - US$240.00/yr platinum.
APA - US$350.00/yr
ASMP - US$300.00/yr
EP - US$50.00/yr
NPPA - US$110/yr

So you can kind of see why a subscription that does not offer a financial gain is often significantly more expensive than this one for photographers. Thats why I considered this to remain a low price, even when it is not 'advertising' or directly a financial gain.

I think it is a fair cost for what you get, because web space takes money, as does traffic, nevermind time. The other part it allows, is for those that believe their interest in photography to be worthwhile enough to invest that money into having a photographer account here, they are seperated from people that more or less just snap a few pics of friends from time to time. That way, when a cosplayer wants a 'serious' (gawd i hate using that term) photographer and they browse the photographer accounts, they have some reassurance that they are looking at people with a fair commitment to capturing images. They wont have to sort through all of the cosplayers that just take pictures of their friends and got a photographer account. It's kind of win/win.

If I'm just paying to access the "potential" client base, then that's a different story. We all understand Cosplay.com has a GIGANTIC community, but if I can only schedule appointments at a con, that community is drastically reduced to a very narrow group, depending on your location (mine being Toronto) and what conventions you can attend. I suppose people can always PM you, or follow your links to your main page to contact you. ......... Lucky! :P As for an ad, I may have to look in to it. However, being Canadian, my concern is people going "Wow! nice work. Oh wait, he's in Canada" being an problem :P

I suggest putting your location in. Maybe on an add or a logo, include the leaf from your country. Oddly enough, canadians are interested in having me work with them. It is very possible for you to get out-of-country interest. No worries mate! But there is a lot of canadian participation here, and I think you'd find MORE than enough people having set up a portfolio showing the right stuff! :rockon:


Definately helped out. In the end, if the current ideas are the ones implemented, then I may just try it out for a 1/4 year, play with the features and see if it a service for me.

Wicked good idea. Definately worth a shot, I'd say! :cheers:

Bruce

Phoenixtear
09-12-2006, 10:08 AM
I've read all the pages thus far and I like the Idea!
I'm looking forward to reading more about and and seeing the section once it becomes available online!

Great idea! :)

Zegen
09-16-2006, 09:45 AM
So these "photographer" galleries will be seperate from our cosplay gallery? And will sub-albums be available? If so Im all aboard.

photoworks.ws
09-21-2006, 02:41 AM
so is there an ETA on these photographer accounts?
Thanks!

Trelyon
09-23-2006, 03:11 PM
so is there an ETA on these photographer accounts?
Thanks!

I am going to be opening up the paid member upgrades shortly, possibly next week.


that was around August 1st... but we all know and undestand... how busy running this site can be... so we wait ;)

staereo
09-23-2006, 05:20 PM
that was around August 1st... but we all know and undestand... how busy running this site can be... so we wait ;)

I think that the quote was referring to normal cosplayer upgraded accounts. Not photographer accounts. :crest:

The-Real-Link
09-23-2006, 09:31 PM
Although this is far easier to suggest than to take the time to write out, perhaps it may be beneficial to create a FAQ for upgraded accounts? There is a lot of good discussion on these pages (and I know Admin is very busy with everything) but once everything is a bit more ready, breaking some of the answers down may help with the questions and concerns.

staereo
09-27-2006, 04:18 PM
I would like a feature exclusive to photgrapher account access (in other words, only photographer accounts can view and use). I would like a image posting board, allowing for c&c of images we take based on photographic input. Much similar to the cosplay critique forum, but for photographers to post images up to get feedback from other photographers here that enjoy shooting cosplay.

The reason I would like it restricted in access is because I think it would be most beneficial to the community if the images could be constructively commented on by other photographers, when attempting to get photographic based input. This also helps to control exposure of a work in progress in which you're looking for feedback on. As in, the whole cosplay community doesnt end up seeing a work in progress every time you're looking for photographic advice from other photographers.

This would be an enjoyable and helpful feature. You could make rules so images were limited in number per thread, and limited in size per image. You could even remove file attachment so that people can either hyperlink to direct images in their cosplay photographer account here at cosplay.com or to their own server off site. This would mean it would cut down on storage space on the server. (just brainstorming).

Either way, I'd like this sort of feature. A forum, restricted to photographer account access, that allowed for C&C of cosplay photographs by other photographers here.

Thanks,
Bruce

Fighterspledge
09-27-2006, 04:32 PM
I like that exclusive photographer forum idea. After all, it's an additional service that we will be paying for so some membership unique benifits would make it appealing.

Ashurachan
09-28-2006, 03:56 AM
I'd be interested in the photographer forum, but I think it shouldn't be tied to the upgraded photographer account (in which I have no interest, because I don't think I have enough skill for now).

Ami Yuy
09-28-2006, 05:12 AM
I'd be interested in the photographer forum, but I think it shouldn't be tied to the upgraded photographer account (in which I have no interest, because I don't think I have enough skill for now).

That then is where this thread is posted already.

The Cosplay Photography forum is meant for that kind of stuff (see the Rules (http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=61143)), but I haven't really seen it used that way.

staereo
09-28-2006, 06:11 AM
....I think it shouldn't be tied to the upgraded photographer account (in which I have no interest, because I don't think I have enough skill for now).

I'm with Ami... Everyone's free to openly ask for photo related c&c here in the photography forum.

So if you're interested in that, post away and I'm sure you'll get plenty of feedback.

What I was asking for was a little different for the reasons I mentioned. :bigtu:

Bruce