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JennyBunny
09-11-2006, 01:30 PM
ok.. not really sure if this is the right place for this.. BUT..

I was thinking it'd be nice to have a listing of photographers willing to do photoshoots and where they are.

for example, I live in Austin, and would like to do photoshoots for a couple of my costumes, but really I only have a couple friends who would even be willing to help me out and it's hard to scehdule with them. I'm sure a lot of cospalyers have similar snags when it comes to getting pictures... so I'd like to know of photographers in my area willing to meet up with me. Posting every time in the forums would be more difficult than having a list to make direct contact through..

and i think a list in general of location, price, and contact info would be really useful. so...

A) could something like that be put on c.com? or would anyone know another good place for something like that to be hosted?

staereo
09-11-2006, 03:15 PM
My suggestion is you delete question B from your post, as this isnt allowed. Perhaps if a moderator gets to this before you do, they might just FORMAT your post so that B is removed, rather than just locking the thread, as the first part of the post is a decent thought.

I *THINK* this may be a good thread for incorporation into the photographer accounts. Maybe a database of searchable fields, and one of the fields could be states.

I dont really know how all of that works, but may be a good idea to have in the photographer paid accounts system.

Anyways, just edit B out so that this post doesnt have to die, I'd like to see it get brought up as an idea towards the photographer accounts....

you know... a profile for each photographers account, and a member search that can query by a field being state... (or zip code, or something... again im not technical in that field)

Bruce

ZiggyB
09-11-2006, 06:07 PM
Admin has something like this in the works. He's talking about it in this thread:

http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=88962

But yah, the rules of this forum (http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=61143) prohibit solicitating photographers, so please do not make that request or I'll have to close this thread.

Edit: Oops, fixed the link. Thanks staeeo.

staereo
09-11-2006, 07:24 PM
Ziggy meant this thread: http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=88962

:D
Bruce

JennyBunny
09-11-2006, 10:12 PM
sorry... didn't know. ^^; I deleted b...sooo is it fixed now?

also.. that's great that there's something similar inthe works.but i was hoping fro something that maybe amature hobby photographers could get in on too... not necessarily professional photographers...

waht i'm trying to say,...very inarticualtely is that i think it would be beneficial to all of the members of this site, and maybe the list could be accessible regarldess of paid membership or not...

jtnishi
09-11-2006, 10:25 PM
sorry... didn't know. ^^; I deleted b...sooo is it fixed now?

also.. that's great that there's something similar inthe works.but i was hoping fro something that maybe amature hobby photographers could get in on too... not necessarily professional photographers...

waht i'm trying to say,...very inarticualtely is that i think it would be beneficial to all of the members of this site, and maybe the list could be accessible regarldess of paid membership or not...
It's a given that obviously these benefits would be useful to all members of the site. It'd be hard to argue that any extras provided by a membership wouldn't. The key question is whether a lack of these features seriously takes away from the experience on the site, and I'd argue that they don't. For the people who do regular photoshoots, the cost of the membership would seem to be a fair price for regular use. It's effectively payment for higher exposure on a site that has a massive cost to run. For the occasional call for cosplayers to gather for a photoshoot, I'm presuming that the Member Gatherings forum will still be useful for this purpose.

Though it does pose an interesting question that I wonder if Admin could answer: in theory, could the upcoming usergroups section be used to organize groups of photographers by region as well as groups of cosplayers?

Cynthia
09-11-2006, 11:22 PM
I'd just go on modelmayhem or onemodelplace and post a call looking for a photographer that's interested. It's not like how it was 3 yrs ago where finding a regular photog that'd be willing to shoot cosplay was difficult. Now most mainstream photogs are fighting with one another to shoot cosplayers for free.

jtnishi
09-12-2006, 12:46 AM
I'd just go on modelmayhem or onemodelplace and post a call looking for a photographer that's interested. It's not like how it was 3 yrs ago where finding a regular photog that'd be willing to shoot cosplay was difficult. Now most mainstream photogs are fighting with one another to shoot cosplayers for free.
Seriously? Wow, I'm going to have to dig into this a little bit. That sounds unusual to some regard. I know that there's a pile of amateurs that might fall into that category, simply because cosplay photography is proving relatively visible right now in the context of anime fandom. So many mainstream articles that talk about American anime fandom seem to feature lots of pictures of cosplayers, so I could see where there'd be high demand to take pics of them in the hopes of getting a good footing in model photography. But I didn't figure it on it being anything seriously competitive within the group of mainstream photographers, since I presumed that cosplay is fairly far off the fringe of mainstream pop culture, at least in the western hemisphere.

staereo
09-12-2006, 09:47 AM
Most PROS will do cosplay. Why not. Although, if they don't do it on their own because they enjoy it, expect to pay a normal day rate. Figure 700/day and up. 400-500/half day and up.

BUT, amateurs use those sites too. So you may find am amateur that would do it tfp.

So, thats why Jason says he's surprised, I think. Because a pro must charge a certain amount to cover their expenses, as well as pay themselves for a day. Understanding that whatever work that particular photographer COULD have been doing instead of the work they will be doing with you would have paid a given amount. A pro photographer needs to make a certain amount each week to make their budget, just like anyone else supporting themselves on the job. If they have gotten used to what a 1000/day rate offers, then they will take jobs that pay 1000/day, and will be less likely to offer their time to a cosplayer for less than that.

That is, of course, unless they enjoy cosplay enough to do it for their own enjoyment. This is what Jason is referring to as super rare. Often, those photographers visit right here.

I am not a coplay photographer, I am a photographer that enjoys anime, manga, and cosplay. As are many of the photographers that post here. The concentration is high here, and I suspect pro photographers willing to do discounted work on cosplay is rare.

I am just semi pro. I make money with photography, but it isn't my main source of income. It allows me a little more flexability, though, I charge normal pro rates when I shoot normal jobs. It is a very important etiquette for photographers of all sorts to do this when charging for jobs. I wont bother getting into that here.

I agree completely with Jason about the membership post, too.

NOW, to Jason in particular, regarding member groups, I would be interested in a member group forum for the photographers, that was moderated a little more leniently regarding connection to cosplay posts. I tend to get a lot of PMs about business of photography and such, and being able to post information in a forum for cosplay photographers to read in one spot would be useful. Networking and information sharing on photography related topics would help a lot of cosplay-photographers learn more about tips for doing photography, as well as cosplay oriented business aspects. Things that aren't really proper to be posted in a cosplay.com photography forum, and would be better if they had a private forum. That way we could be a little looser about expanding topics that cross lines back and forth between cosplay photography, to the generality of photography.

I DEFINATELY would like to pursue something like this, whether it be linked to the photographer-memberships, or just seperate usergroup entirely.

I dont think this would at ALL be redundant to photography forum, as this forum is REALLY designed to be about open COSPLAY shooting, and often times there are subjects that really don't fit into adherance to a strict cosplay-photography subject.

I hope Im making that all clear. I feel as though I'm being a little cloudy.

Bruce

Oklahoma
09-12-2006, 10:12 AM
I assume you are reffering to a place that we can "talk shop" persay. If that is the case we should talk to admin about getting a usergroup forum. Here is the thread admin posted about them http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=73201. To view one you have to join the usergroup and so we would be able to talk about more things especially the techinical and buisness aspects of photography.

Just a thought.

staereo
09-12-2006, 11:03 AM
I'll pm admin and direct him to this thread and get input...

Bruce

JennyBunny
09-12-2006, 12:46 PM
For the occasional call for cosplayers to gather for a photoshoot, I'm presuming that the Member Gatherings forum will still be useful for this purpose.

for a group yeah that's fine... but for a person who wants a single shoot.. tehre's really no way to eaily find and communicate with cosplay photographers of any level (pro, semi pro, amature). and it's not in my opinion something that would jsutify an entire thread in Member Gatherings.. and it's not allowed in the photography section..

do you see what i mean? I do feel that not havign this feature at least rudimentarily for everyone would be detrimental.. otherwise cosplayers at least re just operating on personal contacts, with no larger source of info... but that'd be up to the admins...

SolarTempest
09-12-2006, 01:50 PM
for a group yeah that's fine... but for a person who wants a single shoot.. tehre's really no way to eaily find and communicate with cosplay photographers of any level (pro, semi pro, amature).
Definitely agree with this. I'm also just curious of where other photographers from C.com are from.

staereo
09-12-2006, 02:21 PM
Hmm.. Ok... here is the thing. If Im paying 50, 80, 100 dollars a year to have an account seperated from a photographer with a free account, what does that mean?

First, it means that I care enough about my role as a photographer in the cosplay community to pay a rate based on the work I do. It seperates a photographer that considers this a hobby from those that just click a few times.

For me to do this, also allows me a perspective 'right' to have my name listed under a photographer search, by area or otherwise. This is important, not necessarily just because it points more people for me to shoot, but MORESO because the cosplay member searching for a photographer will get a list of photographers that at least take their role in photographing cosplay serious enough to invest in an up-shifted account.

The cosplayer will have a far better chance at getting a competant photographer, rather than every tom, dick, and jane with a new digicam and a label. It is no guaruntee to be a perfect filter, but it can at least inspire some confidence that the photographers with accounts that get listed are serious enough to be willing to fork out a few bucks.

In reality, the cosplayer with ANY membership that is looking for a photographer will BENEFIT by the feature being filtered to those with paid photo-memberships, by way of a higher probability of a competant photographer.

I think it would be TRUELY detrimental to water down a photographer pool by allowing anyone that has access to a camera to be listed by virtue of just adding a title to their own profile.

It shows a little commitment on the listed photographer's part, if they had to shell out a few clams to get the title. There may be a few people with extra money that still abuse the spirit of the system, but it would still be a lot better than the alternative. THIS is why I think Jason is spot on.

Bruce

EverEvolvingGrl
09-12-2006, 03:24 PM
hmmm... Jenny Bunny I'm from Austin too and I have been looking for a photographer that would be willing to do private and group shoots without overpricing. I'm a young otaku, which means I don't have alot of money to spend outside of anime, cons, and cosplay..... I'm trying to find a photographer for specific projects and a database would be a great idea, i never even thought about it....

Oklahoma
09-12-2006, 05:15 PM
I am not sure but this might be a feature in the upgraded photographer accounts admin is offering. I know it does include a dedicated page for basically a portfolio and listings and you can list conventions you are going to be at and offering photoshoots at. I did not see it mentioned in the thread but I will ask if something like this is going to be part of the upgraded photographer accounts. Example: you select the state you are in and you get a list of all the photographers with the upgraded accounts in that state. Zip codes and such are a lot more complicated due to the sheer number of them.

You can look through this thread and see what all has been discussed on the upgraded photographer accounts and I will PM admin about this option.

Thread: http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=88962

JennyBunny
09-12-2006, 05:38 PM
In reality, the cosplayer with ANY membership that is looking for a photographer will BENEFIT by the feature being filtered to those with paid photo-memberships, by way of a higher probability of a competant photographer.


ahhhhh... see i had thought it was for paid members over all.. no necessarily over paid-photomembers... which i agree, you make a good poitn about. ^^

jtnishi
09-12-2006, 06:34 PM
As far as the whole competitiveness issue, staereo does hit upon most of my thinking in that line. Partially, it relates to the fact that my mental biases when I look at the model sites seem to suggest more pros over pure amateurs, and my mind figures pros don't go running for TFP only shoot gigs unless it's blatently obvious that doing so will further their career significantly (read: top models).

Also, just the fact that I haven't heard a lot of murmurs about regular photographers trying to get more cosplayers to do individual shoots in any real numbers, since one would figure such requests would filter down in posts asking about whether so-and-so-a-photographer is any good or not on these forums.

NOW, to Jason in particular, regarding member groups, I would be interested in a member group forum for the photographers, that was moderated a little more leniently regarding connection to cosplay posts. I tend to get a lot of PMs about business of photography and such, and being able to post information in a forum for cosplay photographers to read in one spot would be useful. Networking and information sharing on photography related topics would help a lot of cosplay-photographers learn more about tips for doing photography, as well as cosplay oriented business aspects. Things that aren't really proper to be posted in a cosplay.com photography forum, and would be better if they had a private forum. That way we could be a little looser about expanding topics that cross lines back and forth between cosplay photography, to the generality of photography.

I DEFINATELY would like to pursue something like this, whether it be linked to the photographer-memberships, or just seperate usergroup entirely.

I dont think this would at ALL be redundant to photography forum, as this forum is REALLY designed to be about open COSPLAY shooting, and often times there are subjects that really don't fit into adherance to a strict cosplay-photography subject.

I hope Im making that all clear. I feel as though I'm being a little cloudy.

Bruce
Yeah, a usergroup seems most ideal, though the catchpoint was that I figured that the usergroup WOULD be somewhat limited, at least regionally. After all, the idea isn't to mimic the photography forum, but rather to allow for discussion and planning that's a bit more focused. Admittedly, the loosening of topics to allow for more general photography discussion might be a side-effect, but that's not something I would've counted on. Is there an absolute certainty that those topics wouldn't be viable for discussion somewhat on this forum in the first place? The alternative is to otherwise create a private site with private forums, and then forcibly advertise everywhere, which is a lot more trouble than just having a usergroup on a site with plenty of traffic.

I have been toying with the idea to actually create a semi-public site a bit to try to group together the California photographers. But that's because I'm crazy, and also because my primary background is in programming, not photography, so I actually believe I have a chance to pull it off. There are certain resources that I'd love to see that I know that cosplay.com can't/couldn't/wouldn't do in terms of features, mainly because their usefulness would be limited to photographers but would require fairly sizeable programming.

However, the vast majority of people would rather just have a place to talk made for them.

PS: Sorry I wouldn't be able to help you with a shoot myself, JennyBunny. But as the conventions might imply, I'm a So. Cal. native.

JennyBunny
09-13-2006, 10:37 AM
*DELETED*

just in case. don't want to get the post locked :/

staereo
09-13-2006, 11:10 AM
My brain hurts. I just want to take pictures.

:D

shiroin
09-13-2006, 12:12 PM
My brain hurts. I just want to take pictures.

:D
same here

shiroin in Evanston, IL if anyone needs me . (after i get my camera shipped here)

staereo
09-13-2006, 01:16 PM
heh, before anyone crosses the line, please remember the following, quoted from forum rules:

"This is not a photo shoot scheduling forum. Please do not ask for a photographer, and please do not offer your services as one, for profit or even for free. I will be adding a section to the site in the near future to serve that purpose."

This way we don't get a good thread locked because someone made an oopsie. :D

jtnishi
09-13-2006, 01:17 PM
My brain hurts. I just want to take pictures.

:D
I want to take pictures, too. But I also want to make sure I have enough connections so that I can take pictures on a more regular basis. I go to way too many conventions, and I still can't get enough. Stupid Sisyphus masochistic complex or something like that: I think I want to make sure I'm continuously buried under a pile of photo editing work I can't escape from or something. :D

heh, before anyone crosses the line, please remember the following, quoted from forum rules:

"This is not a photo shoot scheduling forum. Please do not ask for a photographer, and please do not offer your services as one, for profit or even for free. I will be adding a section to the site in the near future to serve that purpose."

This way we don't get a good thread locked because someone made an oopsie. :D
I'm guessing Admin's going to get that up and running alongside the photographer accounts, since we know that the notice has been there for at least a year now.

staereo
09-13-2006, 01:20 PM
I think I want to make sure I'm continuously buried under a pile of photo editing work I can't escape from or something. :D

Let me help you, all I need is your email address. :bigtu:

Edit: very true about the forum stuff

Cynthia
09-15-2006, 05:41 PM
Um, go to modelmayhem's forums and search "cosplay" there was an entire thread about shooting cosplayers and photographers complaining they can't find any. In the past year I've been refering photographers to other cosplayers I know throughout the US because I can't be EVERWHERE. -_- These have all been TFP gigs, though I've heard about some tearsheet gigs going around.

The majority of my photos in my photo gallery were shot by semi-pro photogs who I met through modeling sites. One in particular has just started shooting cosplay because he loves the costuming involved, used to do big-time commercial photography, and lists that he's only taking paid assignments (though I've never paid). Again, some of them I've known since before cosplay got to be more of a "household" name. It's gotten to the point that I don't shoot with amateur photographers anymore unless they're willing to pay, provide a tearsheet, or they're really good because I have to.

Almost any decent cosplayer can get with atleast 2-3 semi-pro photogs in their area for TFP after they have 5 decent images of themselves up (with atleast 1-2 being non-costumed). And since I've been going to cons all over the US for the past 2 yrs, the amount of photogs I've worked with has nearly doubled, and I'm probably going to have to plan a trip to NYC JUST TO SHOOT since I can't manage to fit in all the photographers I want to work with everytime I go up there for AnimeNext. -_-

Edit:

And I've never paid any photog to shoot with them. And while I'm not adverse to the practice, there's only 2-3 I would pay to work with because they're work is so phenominal that their past/present models have benefited tremedously from it.

jtnishi
09-18-2006, 01:49 AM
Um, go to modelmayhem's forums and search "cosplay" there was an entire thread about shooting cosplayers and photographers complaining they can't find any. In the past year I've been refering photographers to other cosplayers I know throughout the US because I can't be EVERWHERE. -_- These have all been TFP gigs, though I've heard about some tearsheet gigs going around.

The majority of my photos in my photo gallery were shot by semi-pro photogs who I met through modeling sites. One in particular has just started shooting cosplay because he loves the costuming involved, used to do big-time commercial photography, and lists that he's only taking paid assignments (though I've never paid). Again, some of them I've known since before cosplay got to be more of a "household" name. It's gotten to the point that I don't shoot with amateur photographers anymore unless they're willing to pay, provide a tearsheet, or they're really good because I have to.

Almost any decent cosplayer can get with atleast 2-3 semi-pro photogs in their area for TFP after they have 5 decent images of themselves up (with atleast 1-2 being non-costumed). And since I've been going to cons all over the US for the past 2 yrs, the amount of photogs I've worked with has nearly doubled, and I'm probably going to have to plan a trip to NYC JUST TO SHOOT since I can't manage to fit in all the photographers I want to work with everytime I go up there for AnimeNext. -_-

Edit:

And I've never paid any photog to shoot with them. And while I'm not adverse to the practice, there's only 2-3 I would pay to work with because they're work is so phenominal that their past/present models have benefited tremedously from it.

Probably goes to show how little I know about how the model photography industry works. :( I still haven't figured out in which situations the models get paid, which situations the photographers get paid, which situations both get paid, and which situations neither get paid.

I'm sure it's certainly possible to get talented photographers from places like OMP & MM to do shoots with cosplayers with the model and photographer working on solely a TFP basis. I still have a hard time believing that there's any significant number of folks looking specifically for cosplayers though when looking at people who work on at least a semi-pro basis, unless they work for a magazine or book or something that's paying them for their photographs (amateurs are, as with anything like this, a different story; without paid incentive, it's all about portfolio building or artistry, in which case getting ANYONE on a TFP basis is preferred).

I did see the numbers of threads on searching through MM, but I couldn't say with any certainly about what percentage of those folks do photography on at least a part-time money basis. In any case, why go for cosplayers when you can find aspiring models normally willing to work on the same basis? I'll grant that cosplayers tend to provide the advantage of having unusual outfits already, removing at least the cost for a wardrobe person. But outside of that, it's not like cosplayers have any tendencies to lean significantly prettier than the public on average.

Unfortunately, it's trivially easy to get a modelmayhem account as a photographer as long as you can show that you have pictures of some sort. That means that without looking at the individual profiles, it's hard to tell who are the amateurs and who are the pros with any certainty.

staereo
09-18-2006, 07:50 AM
Probably goes to show how little I know about how the model photography industry works. :( I still haven't figured out in which situations the models get paid, which situations the photographers get paid, which situations both get paid, and which situations neither get paid.
No, you're spot on. Models are sub-contracted by the photographer. The photographer is their boss about 90% of their time. It's the models job to sell themselves (their talent) to photographers, or to agencies that run interferences between the photographer and the model. If this is the case, the agency promotes the model to the photographers. And as such, the photographer pays the model for their time and more importantly their signature releasing rights to their likeness. The model would also get paid if the model was a caliber high enough to be able to inflate the portfolio of the photographer significantly.

The photographer is paid by the model when the model needs good shots of themselves for their portfolio. Again, this happens when the photographer considers no gain to be had from that model in respect to their personal portfolio. This is most common in the model-portfolio world.

Neither is paid when both sides stand to gain from the project, by way of portfolio betterment. This is most common with up-and-coming photographers and amateurs. Uncommon with established professionals.



I'm sure it's certainly possible to get talented photographers from places like OMP & MM to do shoots with cosplayers with the model and photographer working on solely a TFP basis. I still have a hard time believing that there's any significant number of folks looking specifically for cosplayers though when looking at people who work on at least a semi-pro basis, unless they work for a magazine or book or something that's paying them for their photographs (amateurs are, as with anything like this, a different story; without paid incentive, it's all about portfolio building or artistry, in which case getting ANYONE on a TFP basis is preferred).

You hit the nail on the head. You're spot on again. :bigtu:


I did see the numbers of threads on searching through MM, but I couldn't say with any certainly about what percentage of those folks do photography on at least a part-time money basis. In any case, why go for cosplayers when you can find aspiring models normally willing to work on the same basis? I'll grant that cosplayers tend to provide the advantage of having unusual outfits already, removing at least the cost for a wardrobe person. But outside of that, it's not like cosplayers have any tendencies to lean significantly prettier than the public on average.

I would work with a model over cosplay for portfolio work, due to the fact I am going to get more usable material from a model. Cosplay is great and all, but it isn't going to sell your photography to a potential client for ad work. As far as wardrobe, models tend to supply their own for tfp jobs; or if I am really interested in a shoot and have my stylist come in, she runs me 350/half day and 500/day plus expenses. This includes wardrobe, as it is a stylists job to acquire the wardrobe from shops for use during the shoot. The price does not go up or down if I choose to use or not use this part of her service. It is assumed included, but you get nothing off of the price when you choose not to use it. So the fact cosplayers have a wardrobe is somewhat moot. Unless you enjoy shooting cosplay. Then, for me, it is a decision on what I can get out of the shoot, be it personal satisfaction or promotional material.


Unfortunately, it's trivially easy to get a modelmayhem account as a photographer as long as you can show that you have pictures of some sort. That means that without looking at the individual profiles, it's hard to tell who are the amateurs and who are the pros with any certainty.

Theres professional that relies solely on photography as their stable income to support themselves. There's semi-pro that makes regular, market-par money on the side. There's amateur that makes little money on the side, or none at all. About 90 percent of mm and omp are amateur, 5 percent semi pro, 5 percent professional. There is no concrete talent differentiation, however you can expect professionals to have the most real-world experience, semis second, and amateurs with the least. Easy way to tell is how much paperwork is involved in the process. Typically the two money makers have a boatload and a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo due to the fact they have lawyers and possibly accountants of their own. (As they are in the game to make a profit, and must operate accordingly.) Model releases are sure to be requested by all. I'm talking about usage rights, terms, contracts, etc. It's hard to know this if you dont know the business, and just like Jason says, with as easy as it is to toss up a portfolio on a site, its hard to know.

Which brings in a whole new world of dangers to models who are unsuspecting. But that is digression from the topic. :lost:

:cheers:
Bruce

Cynthia
09-18-2006, 01:36 PM
I could make a list entirely of semi-pro photographers intersted in shooting cosplayers, but that'd be considered soliciting if I did it on here. I've done it BEFORE on the spam forum as I've been refering photographers/cosplayers for sometime now. And it wouldn't be a short list either and I'd have to divide it up by location as well.

As for why semi-pros would be interested in shooting cosplayers? I can list several reasons:
-Porfolio improvement (Mainstream Models don't normally bring costume items that are worth $200/up.)
-Magazines/Books (though this work is slim) (I'm trying to get a photographer I work with in NYC to go through with his idea to do a book, which will make my 4th tearsheet, and his 2nd book.)
-They think they can do it better than the last guy. (This was actually cited on a thread.)

Now, amateur work would be better for some cosplayers simply because some of them could get paid. I've been paid as much as $125/day (for 2 days work).

I have a great deal of faith in cosplayers, as many other photographers do, because we are our own wardrobe, hair, & make-up stylists in one. And the longer you do this, the more you pic up!

Granted, even with a listing of photographers it'd be hard for most cosplayers to shoot with most semi-pros because a large majority of cosplayers are under aged.

staereo
09-18-2006, 02:45 PM
Under aged isn't really a problem for me in any respect. I just do contracts, terms and condition documentation, and releases through the guardians of the minor. (Also usage rights if the model is also a client.)

If a professional of any sort has a problem with working with a minor, definately can be a warning sign. Makes you wonder what 'type' of pictures they are going for. Unless, of course, thats the kind of image the cosplayer is going for. Then I probably wouldnt agree to that with the parents. However, I've only run into one parent since I've been shooting that asked me to do maxim style shots of their daughter when the daughter was a mere 14. I declined the shoot.

Theres no doubt that there ARE photographers out there interested in shooting ANYTHING. Some people are out there to shoot cosplayers. But it just isn't typically effective for a professional portfolio to show cosplay images as your meat-and-potatoes. I have a couple I enjoyed laying around in different portfolios of mine. Theres just not enough dough in the cosplay market to sustain a photography trade on its own.

So far, for me, it has been pretty regular for models to do their own hair, styling, makeup, etc. when doing a low-budget shoot. And I've found that while I've had many models that aren't that skillfull; I've also shot many cosplayers in equal proportions that aren't that skillfull with it.

As far as paying a cosplayer, I suppose it's possible. It's more likely that I'd pay a cosplayer that happened to be a great model. As in, in normal clothing/fashions they would be a great model. It would be completely irrelevant that they cosplay when deciding if I wanted to pay someone to model for me. To me, a cosplayer model next to a model is an equal choice. I *may* choose a cosplayer model over a non cosplay model, just because of my PERSONAL preference. Then again, you're talking to someone posting on a cosplay forum right now. This shouldnt come as a surprise to anyone. LOL

I completely agree that there are a great deal of photographers out there willing to shoot cosplayers. Just not a great deal of pros that are willing to do it for free or pay. Unless they are interested in cosplay, doing a cosplay based job, or its something new for them to try and they're interested in it, it probably wouldn't be often pursued.

Its somewhat akin to body painting. I would love to do a body painting job, but if thats what I made my meat and potatoes of my portfolio, it would categorize me as a bodypaint photographer.

hehe, and as competitive as the photography world is, I rarely PERSONALLY get the urge to do something better than someone else. Most times that I look at someone else's images I consider what I like, and what I may not like in the person's work. If I am shooting the same image, I prefer to work it with a clean slate, and rather than compare what I will do to what someone else did, I look at it as an opportunity to explore my own style with a given subject.

Although, when deciding who I will take as a tfp, I don't typically focus on the photographer's part of the work, but look at the model's side. How comfortable they appear, how aware of their own body they are, their appearance, and their attitude. Also, their work ethic and interest in pursuing ideas and originality. All important to me. But how the last guy did it, for me personally, makes little difference. I know there ARE many people that DO feel like doing better than the last guy, its just not MY thing....

:D
Bruce

Trelyon
09-18-2006, 07:51 PM
These have all been TFP gigs, though I've heard about some tearsheet gigs going around.And I've never paid any photog to shoot with them. And while I'm not adverse to the practice

aye... time for prints... is for new photog... who are building their portfolio... or old pro testing out new lighting... camera... techniques... etc.


Theres no doubt that there ARE photographers out there interested in shooting ANYTHING. Some people are out there to shoot cosplayers. But it just isn't typically effective for a professional portfolio to show cosplay images as your meat-and-potatoes.

As far as paying a cosplayer, I suppose it's possible. It's more likely that I'd pay a cosplayer that happened to be a great model.

I completely agree that there are a great deal of photographers out there willing to shoot cosplayers. Just not a great deal of pros that are willing to do it for free or pay. Bruce

just for discussion... in a pro shoot... a day rate for a model (cosplayer or not) is about $2,000... 8 hrs with 30 min lunch... or about $250/hrs with 3 hrs minimum... Bruce and the other pro... will prolly tell you that is on the 'cheaper' quote.

pro photog... isn't someone with more expensive camera than you... ::snickers:: it's someone with an artistic eye or three... and the technical skills... and thus they can afford to pay $2,000/day to a good model... since he/she can recoup the cost from the client easily... even a semi-pro shooting a wedding... they can get from $4,500 to $10,000...


I was thinking it'd be nice to have a listing of photographers willing to do photoshoots and where they are.

for example, I live in Austin, and would like to do photoshoots for a couple of my costumes

great idea... i'm sure the Admin will fix that when... Upgraded Photographer Accounts is ready "possibly next week" (08-01-2006, 02:27 AM) LOL!!!

anyhow.. so... what would be... a good profit margin ratios... for cosplay photography... other than FREE ;)

- Alex

staereo
09-18-2006, 08:31 PM
aye... time for prints... is for new photog... who are building their portfolio... or old pro testing out new lighting... camera... techniques... etc.
Yep, pretty much. :) Or a photog looking to bolster their portfolio, but it is VERY rare that the photographer wouldn't hire paid models at that point.


just for discussion... in a pro shoot... a day rate for a model (cosplayer or not) is about $2,000... 8 hrs with 30 min lunch... or about $250/hrs with 3 hrs minimum... Bruce and the other pro... will prolly tell you that is on the 'cheaper' quote.
Thats about spot on. It really has a dependance on what you're shooting, and what you're asking from the model. It can also depend what you're shooting for. Some examples: Clothed, bikini, lingerie, implied nude, nude, adult/glamour nude... all are different work types for models, and models will have a given range they are willing to work with. Also, they would all be charged at a different rate, from the same model. The average model will do normal shoots for 50-100/hr, and tasteful nudes for 150-200/hr. Day rates can vary greatly, but an experienced and resumeed model may easily fetch far over the $2000, just as Trelyon mentions. Typically, the model gets all expenses to do with the shoot covered, including meals, room, travel, etc. They rarely get any royalties from the images until they are top-models, though, so this really isn't as high of a price as it seems up front for their services. As a photographer, I retain royalities... This means I can make a profit from the pieces for a long, long time depending on the work, whereas the model's profit ends when she walks out the door. Often another way a model is paid is by way of a percentage of the shooting charge to the client. If I charge 2000 to the client, the model may walk away with a 25 percent cut or 30 percent cut, giving her 500-700ish. I hope that wasn't too much info. :eek:


pro photog... isn't someone with more expensive camera than you... ::snickers:: it's someone with an artistic eye or three... and the technical skills... and thus they can afford to pay $2,000/day to a good model... since he/she can recoup the cost from the client easily... even a semi-pro shooting a wedding... they can get from $4,500 to $10,000...

Alex is right on.... Photography is subjective. And theres both pay for the shoot time, and pay for image usage. Or prints.. or a bunch of different possibilities. Pro can go from a 750/day studio, up to a 250,000/day studio. Its a matter of expenses and networking, what youre doing, and the name you have for yourself.


anyhow.. so... what would be... a good profit margin ratios... for cosplay photography... other than FREE ;)

Profit margin? If I control how much money I lose by doing it, then I consider it a good profit margin. There is no money in cosplay photography. At least, not much past making up expenses. Well... maybe the less honorable photographers that shoot upskirt cosplay ..stuff.. and charge memberships to sites MIGHT make money. LOL Cosplayers don't have a budget for pro-level photography expenses. Therefor you'd be hard pressed to charge enough to do much else than cover the incidental expenses that stem from the shoot.

If I travel at $.47/mi, that covers my cars operation. Not my time driving, just what it costs ME to do DRIVE. If I drive 60 miles for a shoot, thats nearly $30.00 for a shoot a mere 30 miles from me. Thats just ONE expense, and we're not even including POTENTIAL money I could be making if I were'nt working on something else. I could get into this further, but if you add up the cost to do a days photography, you can get an idea of what you need to make to cover your expenses. For me, it is FAR AND ABOVE what any cosplayer I know would be willing to pay.

Of course, the smaller your operation is, and the less overhead your photography costs you, the less you could hypothetically charge.

Its as if cosplay is this isolated little island in a sea of photography, that breaks all the financial rules. In the real world of photography, you will burn some SERIOUS bridges if you undercut the market. Networking is very important, so letting your work sell itself is far more important to getting somewhere, than your prices.

Bruce :crest: