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ChicoChan
09-28-2006, 02:52 PM
Any one tried tweaking the Nikon raw image format in photoshop CS2?

oh my god does it ever kick the crap out of tweaking a .jpg

Turning up the saturation actually looks GOOD.

staereo
09-28-2006, 03:30 PM
lol... RAW is superior for image quality.

That said, have you tried using Nikon's software?

I'm not a nikon user, but I've read that adobe raw is actually just guessing at its interpertation of nikon's raw files, and that nikon's software is almost proprietary to their raws. As in, it does that much better of a job.

I wouldn't personally know, but it's whats often said regarding the matter.

Bruce

Trelyon
09-28-2006, 08:21 PM
Any one tried tweaking the Nikon raw image format in photoshop CS2?

oh my god does it ever kick the crap out of tweaking a .jpg

Turning up the saturation actually looks GOOD.

LOL... agreed...

raw files are just the 'raw' sensor data... "uncooked eggs"... digital cams use software or hardware... interpolation to make jpg... "omelets".

many cam... start with raw... and convert to jpg... then throw away the raw data.... in good cam... quality is the same in jpg and raw

using photshop if you tried to make adjustment to make the omelets *better* you would have to work harder than if you started out with uncooked egg... etc etc.

yes i use dumb analogy to teach my photoshop class ::smirks::

- Alex

staereo
09-29-2006, 01:21 PM
does anyone here have nikons software AND camera raw in CS2?

If so, I would love to see what it looks like to have an UNDERexposed image corrected by the same stop(s) of exposure compensation in both pieces of software to see if theres any validation to the rumor....
Bruce

Edit: If possible try a 2 stop underexposure in the capture, then compensate 2 stops lighter in the raw conversion. sRGB output, 8bit TIF, 100 percent crop.

Thanks.

Trelyon
10-02-2006, 10:35 PM
does anyone here have nikons software AND camera raw in CS2?

If so, I would love to see what it looks like to have an UNDERexposed image corrected by the same stop(s) of exposure compensation in both pieces of software to see if theres any validation to the rumor....
Bruce

Edit: If possible try a 2 stop underexposure in the capture, then compensate 2 stops lighter in the raw conversion. sRGB output, 8bit TIF, 100 percent crop.

Thanks.

Bruce,

Nikon PictureProject software isn't that great with the RAW... so it wouldn't be a good analysis representative samples... so let me see if i can get a [legal] copy of Nikon Capture... and we'll test this out ;)

the ads sez... something about Photoshop is for 'graphic artist'... and Nikon Capture is for 'photographer' LOL

- Alex

staereo
10-02-2006, 11:22 PM
Alex-
Yes, I meant Nikon Capture. I would greatly appreciate it. Despite being a canon man, I enjoy learning about different mediums when they are available.

Thanks!

Bruce

SolarTempest
10-03-2006, 07:41 AM
does anyone here have nikons software AND camera raw in CS2?

If so, I would love to see what it looks like to have an UNDERexposed image corrected by the same stop(s) of exposure compensation in both pieces of software to see if theres any validation to the rumor....
Bruce
I have both Nikon Capture and CS2.

Nikon Capture didn't seem to be that great or really worth it. I actually just uninstalled it last night because I never use it... But CS, it's quite awesomeous to use for conversion!

CS2 finally supports NEF files (Nikon RAW) now and does an wicked job at conversions. I've never done a side-by-side comparison because I have never felt the necessity of using Capture. Mostly because I enjoy the workflow of CS2 more than Capture. Capture just seems more cumbersome to use and not worth the trouble.

It is slightly annoying that Photoshop doesn't have full support for the NEF files though. I was trying to decode the NEF headers to snatch other exif data for my shots in an automated process, but it's a coding nightmare (doing this outside of photoshop with php). After a year or so of sporadic attempts, I've finally given up, heh.


As an aside, I lent a friend some memory cards the other day during a group shoot and quickly realized how much bigger Canon Raw files are. He was filling up my spare cards like no tomorrow!! It's been a few years since I switched from shooting Canon, so it was an interesting reminder.

His shots averaged at 8mb each while mine averaged 5.4mb.
10D (6.5mp) vs. D70s (6.1mp)

shiroin
10-04-2006, 05:35 PM
I have used many different RAW conversion softwares, and here I will share some of my experience with them (in the order which I used them)

1. Nikon Picture Project - My first software to handle RAW files, very simple features which offers not enough control. Discarded in one day.

2. Nikon Capture - Very comprehensive editing features and details in EXIF. But the speed stopped me from using it after a few days.

3. Adobe Photoshop CS2 + Camera RAW - I have used this for almost a year. I find this software to be the simplest and fastest until Aperture or Lightroom came out.

4. Nikon Capture NX - Best image quality of all RAW softwares I have used. The U-point is very very easy to use and the results are amazing. The colors coming out are very vivid and not artificial. The white balance is very counterintutive and the main drawback is its incompentence in batch processing and turtle speed.

5. Apple Aperture - Very impressive speed and really nice GUI. Drawback was a fixed photo library that is uneditable outside of Aperture and lack of color management. Later on it started crashing very frequently (almost every other time I adjusted something)

6. Adobe Lightroom - My favorite and the one I currently use. Comprehensive settings allows fine control; amazing and efficent keyword system allows easy photo organization; and above all, it is FAST!

Lightroom is my choice, and I will likely not switch RAW converter ever again.

staereo
10-04-2006, 07:39 PM
Thats what I heard about nikon capture.

Personally, as a canon user, my raw files arent necessarily better in canon's software.

I have found my home with Phase One's Capture One Pro.

I had heard that many pros that use nikon stick with nikon capture for that reason. I have no first hand experience, but I WAS curious to verify this rumor.


Bruce

SolarTempest
10-05-2006, 03:14 AM
Lightroom is out now? Of the previews and online video demos of it from a few months ago - that I viewed at least back then - the software looks amazing! I'm glad to see that Adobe was able to carry out what they advertised and hyped up so much.

I forgot about the speed issue of Capture, shiroin. Now that you mention it, that was the most irritating part of the program... *grumbles*

staereo
10-05-2006, 06:33 AM
Lightroom definately seems useful, particularly in a adobe workflow. The only reason it doesn't fit my needs is because capture one is more suited to tethered fashion photography. Which is my focus. I'm not sure if I would use it otherwise, as it's hard to speculate. But with my comfort level in C1, I end up using it over lightroom, digital photo pro, Adobe Camera Raw, BreezeBrowser, Rawshooter, Bibble, etc. I think this is what happens to most people as they find a medium that they use most, and develop comfort in the software.

Bruce

shiroin
10-07-2006, 04:47 AM
Lightroom definately seems useful, particularly in a adobe workflow. The only reason it doesn't fit my needs is because capture one is more suited to tethered fashion photography. Which is my focus. I'm not sure if I would use it otherwise, as it's hard to speculate. But with my comfort level in C1, I end up using it over lightroom, digital photo pro, Adobe Camera Raw, BreezeBrowser, Rawshooter, Bibble, etc. I think this is what happens to most people as they find a medium that they use most, and develop comfort in the software.

Bruce

Lightroom can do tethered photography with the function called 'watch folder' also

staereo
10-07-2006, 09:59 AM
Totally... its just not as suited for it. Canon DPP can do tethered as well... I didn't mean to make it sound as if others did not have the ability. P1C1 is just designed around tethered shooting. So it flows a bit easier when doing studio work for me.

^.~

Jack the Ripper
10-10-2006, 04:46 PM
dont know if anyone finds this usefull but here is a freeware program for editing raw images.

http://snapfiles.com/get/ablerawer.html

Eriol
10-12-2006, 11:09 PM
Thats what I heard about nikon capture.

Personally, as a canon user, my raw files arent necessarily better in canon's software.

I have found my home with Phase One's Capture One Pro.

I had heard that many pros that use nikon stick with nikon capture for that reason. I have no first hand experience, but I WAS curious to verify this rumor.


Bruce

I think the running joke is that the camera manufacturers make good camera hardware, but write bad camera software programs.

Nikon Capture and NX, being from Nikon, will have unprecedented access to the NEF format, but the rest of the software is up for dispute.

shiroin
10-15-2006, 04:15 PM
Nikon Capture and NX, being from Nikon, will have unprecedented access to the NEF format, but the rest of the software is up for dispute.

Dispute? Have you seen the extent capture NX is able to edit?
Have you seen the results of the U-Point technology?
I would not call that 'dispute' but rather a huge 'innvoation'.

The only disputable weakness of capture NX is speed and batch processing.

http://gallery.orbital7.com/d/33010-2/DSC_0038p.jpg

Here is one example:

First picture is the original shot, second was with edits on general contrast, and the third was edits using multiple U-points to soften the face and to create a mystical blue background.

SolarTempest
10-15-2006, 08:16 PM
Shiroin, awesome set of photos on your DeviantArt!

Trelyon
10-16-2006, 07:08 PM
Alex-
Yes, I meant Nikon Capture. I would greatly appreciate it. Despite being a canon man, I enjoy learning about different mediums when they are available.

Thanks!

Bruce

no luck with capture yet... still looking... i'm curious to see the result as well

Dispute? Have you seen the extent capture NX is able to edit?
Have you seen the results of the U-Point technology?
I would not call that 'dispute' but rather a huge 'innvoation'.

since you have both NX and CS... can you do everything with NX that you can do in CS... and more... etc?
NX looks good from your examples... but many other softwares can easily emulate... other than having access to NEF
... would we spend $$$$ for it.

thx, - Alex

shiroin
10-16-2006, 08:36 PM
since you have both NX and CS... can you do everything with NX that you can do in CS... and more... etc?
NX looks good from your examples... but many other softwares can easily emulate... other than having access to NEF
... would we spend $$$$ for it.

thx, - Alex

NX can do all of the useful adjustments in photoshop as far as i can remember. (levels, curves, saturation, etc)

and the u-point technlogy in NX is unreplaceable: see for yourself
http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/software/capturenx/nxsp/top.htm

Trelyon
10-18-2006, 06:59 PM
NX can do all of the useful adjustments in photoshop as far as i can remember. (levels, curves, saturation, etc)

and the u-point technlogy in NX is unreplaceable: see for yourself
http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/software/capturenx/nxsp/top.htm

hmmm... not bad for $130 for NX vs $580 for CS... my colleagues use NX to convert NEF then use CS for editing... so they don't know much about NX functionality :(