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Unread 08-23-2005, 11:14 PM   #30
Eriol's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Sarcasm-hime
No, actually, those are NOT the rules. It says clearly on the ICG masquerade guidelines that people can compete up as they like; there are no rules forcing people to compete at a lower level. Any anime masquerade director who has used this excuse has made it up themselves, and for no good reason IMO.
My phrasing was not clear in that. It's not that the ICG's rules were being followed to the letter. It's the con's rules that were being enforced to the letter. I am aware that the ICG guildeline state that an entrant can compete up.

I'm sorry that my phrasing was messed up on that.

Originally Posted by Sarcasm-hime
Frankly I fail to see why we should, as you seem to imply, give masquerades over to presentation-only entries and then create effectively a duplicate of the backstage greenroom judging as a separate "Hall Cosplay" event. Hall cosplay awards have traditionally been simply as a way to acknowledge people who were uncomfortable with going onstage. It isn't meant to replace workmanship judging. If I have a big fancy costume that's difficult to move in but would look very impressive onstage, and I have a simple solo presentation that effectively shows off how impressive the costume is, what on earth is wrong with that? It seems you're trying to say that fancy costumes belong in the hall rather than in a masquerade, which is ridiculous.
Perhaps I need to go to a non-anime convention. For me, the state of anime costumes is such that most anime costume do not need to be on stage. They are either too simple or don't have a good presentation/walk-on to present the costume in a meaningful light. That is why I have this unusual view of masquerades and awards. I simply did not understand your (the collective ICG advocates) until everybody here started to explain these concept. I saw what the ICG guidelines were, but I couldn't figure out why they were like that.

Originally Posted by Sarcasm-hime
ICG competitions award both presentation awards and workmanship awards. So there is a Best in Show (which means presentation) and Best in Show Workmanship. Presentation judges, however, also take into account how the costume looks. So no, workmanship is not being awarded twice; workmanship awards are given by a judge that examines the costume up-close, whereas the Performance awards are given by a panel of judges who only see the costumes onstage.
So, performance judges don't get to see the costume up close? Then, the green room that others are mentioned is for craftsmanship judging?

By your statements, then I would have to conclude anime cons are repeating the craftsmanship awards twice.

Originally Posted by Sarcasm-hime
....Basically you seem to be saying that anime cons do things differently, and I'm saying there is no reason for them to do so, because the ICG system can work just fine at any kind of convention (as we have proven at Anime North).
I think anime cons do things differently. Just look at how many anime conventions still do it the non-ICG way. If I had this misinformed concept of whythe ICG guidelines exist, I'm sure many more in the anime fandom don't understand them or its justifications either. Maybe the anime audience in the majority just wants to be entertained and could care less about costuming. (i.e. the number of people who think making a costume can be done cheaply, giving commissioners headaches)

Maybe some cons do know about the ICG guidelines and simply don't care, because they don't want to accept another body's guidelines, even if the outside guidelines are superior. Human pride and stubborness is pretty strong. Look how much you all had to write before I started to understand the justifications of the ICG guidelines and the award categories. Convincing anime masquerade directors is probably not going to be easy, and in my opinion, it is easier to patronize a different con that supports ICG guidelines or has a saner awards policy. Just as sci-fi cons have been around for 30+ years and have matured, I expect anime cons to require just as long before the "best of breed" policies appear.

Thank you all for explaining your views. It's evident you are all passionate about your costuming and sane awards giving.

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Last edited by Eriol : 08-23-2005 at 11:19 PM.
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