Concept of EGL as menswear

[Demtastic]

I got this idea I'd like to get some comments from the experienced lolita experts...

The idea for the costume cames from a story I wrote that had a mastermind detective who wears lolita style dresses, but otherwise male clothing, knee boots, dress shirt and necktie, top hat, cane, monocle, etc... Legs from boots up should be covered with tight pants or thick leggings and maybe a corset should be included too. All this as close as possible in the imaginary style that a dress would be actually menswear.

I suppose it will have to be custom fitted as I'm not thinking of wearing padding or similar with it.

So, the bottom line, what should the design of the dress be to work with the whole costume the best way?

Choosing the right section to post this proved to be rather difficult to decide, I hope this isn't too far from the correct one.

Thank you,
Demtastic

[Meiki]

Well first of all, I'd completely nix the idea of pants with the dress. Tights yes. Leggings maybe. Thick socks even, but pants will just looks strange. Secondly, I'd go with something fairly androgynous style-wise in the first place, something from Atelier Boz maybe? Like this or this or this? If you go straight for really frilly things it's just going to look like an odd mish-mash with all that male clothing.

[Demtastic]

Thank you for the comment, Meiki. I think the dress in your third link is rather good looking, especially the collar, how well it'd suit a stand up collar shirt and a cravat-like neck tie.

You're right about the pants, leggings are fine for me but I'd prefer staying away from anything thin or even mildly transparent.

About the dress and it's decorations, I originally thought it should have even some frills and ruffles on it. Depending of the era at hand, the actual mens clothing probably had some of them too, I think the costume should have about the same in style... I haven't yet decided the exact epoch of the costume, but most likely it'll be somewhere between mid to late 1800's.

If the dress isn't all plain one, should the other, masculine parts of the outfit to be toned a bit to the feminine direction, a bit more heel in the boots, etc?

D

[Meiki]

I think if you added more feminine touches to the rest of the outfit that would certainly be more reasonable if you wanted to go in the direction of a frillier dress. Heels on the boots, flowers or some other decoration on the hat, that sort of thing, would really help to even out the look.

[Demtastic]

That shouldn't be too hard to achieve, I was already thinking of getting these boots, or even maybe something like granny boots instead of the fairly usual combat boots of mine. The last pair might take the complete costume a bit too much to the feminine side.

I could change the ribbon around my top hat to a different colour than black and also add a flowerlike, maybe a stylished lily, kind of ornament to it?

I think the design of the cane might even that up a bit also, if it's more slender and perhaps have a coloured gem or a stone at the top...

D

[Kirotighta]

Sorry to go all anime-geek on you, but fan+friend lead me to discover and greatly like a story called black butler. The artist often draws the lead male in feminine menswear (more in the in-between pages between chapters than the actual story, though) and he's immediately what I thought of when I read this. This is an example of what I mean, the thing I saw on f+f (though I don't think f+f's rendition of this outfit is very good):



You could try looking through the manga for inspiration. Here's a link to read it online: http://www.onemanga.com/Kuroshitsuji/

[Demtastic]

Oh, this is interesting! I have only seen one episode and bits and pieces of the others, i had noted Ciel's wardrobe but didn't spot the feminine clothing yet myself. I think I have a reading marathon coming up then...

I would still like to hear people's opinions about the whole concept and suggestions for the costume.

D

[sylf]

Oh, you totally beat me to Kuroshitsuji! =p I just started getting absorbed into it too, the characters are so interesting, and have good design.

Here's one way Ciel works shorts with a 'dress' that seems to tick all the boxes you want:
http://www.onemanga.com/Kuroshitsuji/13/01/

And here's someone on the forums cosplaying as Ciel really well:
http://www.cosplay.com/photo/2303584/

That so makes me want to try making one too....

[Demtastic]

You're right there, that should be pretty much the perfect balance between the feminine and masculine styles. This makes me somewhat drop my own character and go for Ciel instead.

D

[OurLadyC]

I think your problem is that you're thinking of styling in terms of articles of clothing.

Something like Ciel's clothing is more "broken down" and individual items are flourished / modified / et cetera.


You won't likely get something as cohesive as his look without unique specifically-designed items.

[Demtastic]

Indeed. If we forget the idea of an Ciel cosplay, wich is a very tempting idea itself, and go back to the basic idea of the original costume, using a dress with other pieces and accessories to create an impression of an actual mens' outfit, what would be the best working setup?

In practise my plan was to use an existing dress or dress design and have one made from scratch or modified from existing one and add the rest of the clothing from mens' wardrobe, especially keen on using the top hat, monocle and cane.

Based on the opinions in previous posts that would result a costume without an impression of togetherness between the different parts. Unfortunately I don't think I can create a more sophisticated design myself with everything fitting in perfectily, it would be interesing to hear more suggestions what the design of the different parts should be and what type of clothing and accessories to use at the first place.

D

[OurLadyC]

Personally, I think the main flaw in the concept is to use "a dress" in the first place.

If it's a Lolita dress - I don't think it's EVER going to be made to appear to have anything like a balance of masculine and feminine.

A dress is a dress.




If you would like me to design you something, PM me and we can discuss it. Sorry to be all mysterious !

[celticfreefall]

This just sounds like steampunkish type clothing or romanti goth, and not lolita. If you're interested in that kind of blend, I'd probably go towards classical/romantic gothic or steampunk. Lolita isn't really masculine (at all). There is a sister related fashion that includes traditional menswear like that, called Aristocrat, but it's basically Japanese romantic gothic. Sorry. This idea just isn't lolita at all. Lolita is pretty much the essence of femininity. I agree with LadyC.

Examples of Aristocrat (which isn't lolita), from the galleries at Avant Gauche:

[Demtastic]

I like the styles in the pictures a lot, I think the last one could work as it is for the purpose. I suppose the original idea worked only as written text when described in rather vague way. Aristocrat probably works better with the character itself too, considering we are talking about a British gentleman with a noble pedigree...

I have already got this jacket with a matching shirt and cravat from F+F, I've so far worn them with breeches and riding boots, maybe it would be possible to create a new costume based on that jacket. I could always switch the breeches to a skirt and the boots to something else and maybe add a corset. How would that direction sound like?

This is sliding out of the EGL -topic though so I feel a bit writing on the wrong section of the forum now...

D