Go Back   Cosplay.com > Fashion > EGL

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Unread 11-22-2010, 07:52 PM   #16
Eleksin
Eleksin
 
Eleksin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleksin View Post
We are not trying to discourage you at all.
I did type that you know. We weren't telling you to go home.

Oh, I think I get it now. You mean a muff right? Like this?

The quality of lace is very important to us lolitas, and it is rather a sensitive subject. Most shortcomings with dresses involve bad lace as one of the big factors.

As for what you are saying the pertains to "quality", this is not what we are talking about. Quality is about the materials and how sound the construction is. I don't really think it would matter if you use overlock (serged) hems because they are usually covered anyway with a ruffle or line of lace. However ruffles (IMO) should not end in a serged hem and should always be folded over and sewn because it offers a much cleaner look.
Eleksin is offline  
 
Unread 11-22-2010, 10:03 PM   #17
Garen
unapologetic yorozuya
 
Garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,219
*facepalms at the amount of word-fail in this thread*

From what it sounds like, he wants to make stuff that's good quality, and the reason he's confused is because he's not sure why everyone thinks he'd want to do things wrong. Reason generally cited is because lower-quality materials tend to be cheaper and therefore okay if you're on a budget, but the point that's being made is that that's no excuse for low quality. Low quality as far as fabric (as far as I've been able to figure out) is going for the almost-see-through, $2 per yard poly-cotton blend rather than the $5 per yard 100% cotton broadcloth that will wear better and isn't see-through. That, and shiny fabrics. One would probably do well to stay away from shiny fabrics. Although there are some nice satins that aren't flimsy and don't look awful in photographs, they're kind of too dressy for a style that's supposed to be wearable for everyday.

Ways to avoid it? Go for the $5 per yard broadcloth, and if money is an issue, wait for it to go on sale. Alternately, you can just not use broadcloth at all. Lightweight wool suitings, cotton velvet, and the like would all probably work just as well, and things like that often show up in the bargain sections at fabric stores. What do people think of narrow corduroy? I think it'd work, personally.

As far as good lace and bad lace, the good lace is the well-made lace, and the bad lace is the poorly-made lace. Think about it though. The bad lace tends to be scratchy and synthetic, which isn't real comfortable to wear. The nicer stuff is better-made, not made out of coarsely spun plastic (synthetic fibres are basicly plastic, y'know), and won't be that flourescent neon white that doesn't really go with anything.

A generally good idea when posting is to have a good idea of what things are called. When Sword-Saint mentioned lace and fur armwarmers with pink ribbon, I had the same inward cringe that some others had, try as I might to imagine it as being interesting. I would be very, very relieved if he was just misusing the word. If he'd said hand-warmers, it probably would have been a bit clearer, since muffs do exactly that, and they most definitely are lolita.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpazItUp View Post
Hey it's cosplay, people sew things to their pants all the time! =D
"Give it your best shot if you think it's worth it, so if you fail it won't be for lack of trying. If it's not worth your best shot, then why bother?"

Sewing commissions are on hold, but I still do custom pattern-drafting. PM for details.

Katsucon:
Natsu (Fairy Tail), Alibaba (Magi), modern!Kili (The Hobbit)

AnimeBoston:
Yuri (ToV), Allen Avadonia (Evillious Chronicles), Yukimura (SDK)
Garen is offline  
Unread 11-22-2010, 11:06 PM   #18
Ororo Howlett
When in doubt, FRAG OUT!
 
Ororo Howlett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sword-Saint View Post
Well, seeing as I'm not a fabric genius...
1. How am I supposed to know that? I mean, in all honesty. What distinguishes "good" lace from "bad" lace? Just like, the toughness and style? Or is there some sort of type of stitch, some sort of cotton that I should avoid, etc...? I mean, I'm only just now hearing that there ARE different quality fabrics amongst types. I didn't realize there WAS such a thing as "bad" satin until just recently. How am I supposed to tell the difference, and why does it matter? Isn't it the look and the quality of production that matters?
Broadcloth, raschel lace, shiny satin, crushed/stretch velvet and shiny ribbon (there are more things but I'm seriously drawing a blank) are things that EVERY good lolita avoids like the plague. Anyone who has done adequate research would already know this.

Quote:
2. Well obviously. But is there some sort of construction type that I should specifically AVOID for making lolita stuff?
Good construction is good construction. Items should be able to withstand being worn (zippers, buttons and seams MUST be sturdy) and laundering. Anything less is a waste of your time and a lolita's money.

Quote:
3. Uh... I'm assuming this only applies to dresses? How on earth does an arm-warmer or hat keep the "lolita silhouette"?
... I sure hope you mean wristcuffs.

Quote:
Also, with the design... yes I'm trying to make them stand-out as unique. Honestly I think the design is my greatest strength: I may not be the most perfect seamster or most knowledgable about fabrics but I am (I've been told) a good designer/creator.
That's good. But remember, your items must fit into the lolita guidelines. Deviate too far from what is standard and you won't be able to call it lolita anymore.

Quote:
4. Can't do much about the high-res part, as I've got a 5 MPx camera and am not going to buy another camera just to take pictures of my clothes, not yet anyway. Not till i've got a flourishing business or something. As to well-lit... you mean to display the true garment colors, right? Just trying to make sure I know what people are looking for.
For me, this is where the good and bad lace/ribbon comes in. I won't buy anything if I can't tell what kinds of decoration are on it! There's no point in making an item with nice details if the customer can't see the details.

Quote:
*1. Note: I just wanted to say that I'm not AGAINST buying high-quality or expensive fabrics. In fact, I'd be perfectly happy to do so if just to say that I did. What I'm trying to express is that I don't understand the difference, or how to tell them apart, or why it matters if the construction is good.
No one wants to buy an item that falls apart or fades horribly after washing. Lolitas are no different.
__________________
XBL Gamertag: ur NME 123
01010100 01101000 01100101 00100000
01100011 01100001 01101011 01100101
00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000
01100001 00100000 01101100 01101001
01100101 00101110

Last edited by Ororo Howlett : 11-22-2010 at 11:13 PM.
Ororo Howlett is offline  
Unread 11-22-2010, 11:24 PM   #19
noctiluca
ryuujin no miko
 
noctiluca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 372
Not all broadcloth is bad quality. High thread count in 100% cotton is perfect for blouses and some summer dresses; almost all brand blouses are made of broadcloth (I've seen georgette and chiffon but it's less common)... and yes summer clothing is (and should be) made of lighter materials.



Broadcloth is ultimately too lightweight for a jumperskirt though. For that kind of stuff you need heavier weights like twill, velveteen, etc. Baby makes a lot of their clothing in this material that has a linen feel to it and it's very nice, usually in the fall/winter releases. I think it's more common to use lighter twill for spring/summer skirts and dresses.
__________________
Fanime 2013 Lineup:
Minako Arisato (Persona 3 Portable)
Catherine (Catherine)
"Yuko" Narukami (Persona 4)

I have a tumblr too!
noctiluca is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 06:33 AM   #20
Sword-Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26
@burning

Yeah, I know. I just don't really like the crossplay look personally. And mainly, not on me. I wouldn't be against trying it, if I looked more like Mana, but...yeah. Let's just say I don't look like him at all.
Sword-Saint is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 06:51 AM   #21
Sword-Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26
@ ...everybody on this page. lol

Thanks guys. See, this is the information I was looking for! I'll just respond to stuff one point at a time to make sure I get everything.
Eleksin
1. Right, except that I was thinking of using faux white short-fur and ribbon on mine instead of the velvet or whatever that is.
2. Yeah, I'm seeing that now. Wish I'd known the difference BEFORE I went and made my test skirt, but oh well. I mean, I personally think it looks nice, and a couple other lolitas I know do too, but... I'm not 100% sure it's what folks are looking for.
3. You're talking about short ruffles, right? Not pleat ruffles? So like, the line of ruffles down the front of a blouse, rather than the bottom edge of a high-ruffled skirt?

Garen
1. Exactly.
2. Well it seems like broadcloth might be safer to avoid for just starting out, but, I'll look into it. Hmm.. velvet/een and wool suitings... didn't even think of those...Really though? For a lolita dress? Or are you talking the muffs now?
3. Ah, yeah I think I know what you mean. Part of the problem here is I'm a visual learner so, I guess I just need to go to the fabric store and compare stuff.
4. Yeah that's true, but if I don't ask SOMEONE, I'll never learn it.
5. I guess I meant muffs, yes, albeit bigger, poofier ones.

Ororo
1. Ah. Yes, that's good to know. Wait... why shiny ribbon? Isn't all ribbon shiny to a degree? What kind of ribbon do you use then?
2. That's true, and makes sense. For the record, I was going to try to sell my half-skirt for like 25$. Just the bare cost of most of the materials. No charge for work or anything. I can't imagine that's asking too much.
3. Uh... well now I'm not sure. Which is it guys, wrist cuffs or muffs?
4. Thats...true...but, do you guys really think there would be no market at all amongst lolitas for new clothing pieces? One thing I haven't seen sold on its own that I was thinking of making is seperate collars. And elaborate (muffs?). I want to make lolita stuff but I also want to have a signature style and some design to call my own. There's no point in just copying other peoples' stuff. So, at some point I'm going to have to take a step into the unknown and try to market something that hasn't been done much before.
5. Yeah true, and I'd feel the same way. I mean more about cloth and stitch details. How many grains of the linen do you want to be able to see? I mean, I've been all over the Baby site and they don't have ANY high-res close-ups of their fabrics.
6. Right.

Noctiluca
1. Now I'm confused. Broadcloth or no?
2. Twill huh? Hmmm....
Sword-Saint is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 08:39 AM   #22
Sword-Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26
Also, @ Ororo

This is YOUR words from the lolita handbook post:
"LOL If it's "fashion", then why does it have rules? I get the feeling that the same Loli's who strictly adhere to these rules, are also the one's who act very elitist (not to mention very unloli-like) and make fun of others who don't follow their rules on what this fashion should look like. It's kinda like "Follow our dogma, or be subject to ridicule!". Kinda like Joan and Melissa Rivers. I wanna know what makes these people think they're such experts.

Some of the nicest looking "Lolis" I have seen don't follow the rules, unnatural makeup and all. I love themed Lolis and Catgirl Lolis. And yes, EGL is just a costume for some people... including me *shock & awe*."


So by your own words, there should be room in lolita fashion for me to make my own designs. I love the look of the fashion, and want to help it along with my creativity! I'm not trying to destroy the fundamental pillars of lolita culture. I'm trying to offer new options for dress accesories! That's all.
Sword-Saint is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 09:57 AM   #23
Eleksin
Eleksin
 
Eleksin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 462
Sword, how old is that post by Ororo? Things can completely change for a person after time. I know Ororo to be great with lolita and it's basics and rules so this post doesn't even begin to describe Ororo anymore.

Also, the reason brands don't have hi-res close ups of fabric is simply because they don't need to anymore. Everyone who is anyone knows that brand will always have top quality goods. They can do this because of their reputation as a business.

It's totally fine to be creative, just don't deviate too much. Lolita pretty much has a set look and if things look too different, people still wont buy it.
Eleksin is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 10:38 AM   #24
Sword-Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26
A. No idea. It was on the "Lolita quick handbook" page. Just thought I'd point out that I'm not alone (even if her opinion's changed) in wanting to be creative with the style.

B. Exactly. Which comes down to the age-old problem of new start-ups and sellers trying to cmopete with established businesses. But guess what? I'm going to try anyway because it's what I want to do.

C. I read through the entirety of the lolita fashion homepage or whatever it's called... this one http://www.lolitafashion.org/. What I see is that this site (if it is the definitive description for lolita style parameters) lists the different colors palletes, fabric types, and outfit pieces that are used in the currently established and accepted Lolita styles. Would that be an accurate assumption?
What I hear you (folks) saying is that if a piece of clothing is too different from the established trend in lolita styles, it isn't really something lolita. Would that be accurate?
If so my response is that I disagree with that mindset. I understand the fact that there are these pieces of clothing that, by definition, are what lolita style uses. I understand the desire to have a set standard for the fashion. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a fashion. And obviously there's a line where if you go too far over it, you're getting outside the guidelines. But I think that the style needs to be open to innovation and new stuff. If not, it will grow stale, as with ANY style. That's why people try to come up with new trends. Because old ones get old. Right?
Sword-Saint is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 11:04 AM   #25
noctiluca
ryuujin no miko
 
noctiluca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 372
There IS some room for innovation, maybe... but usually that turns it into a different style-- like Emily Temple Cute (my personal favorite <33); a lot of people wear their stuff with lolita, but it's not really a lolita brand, at all. There is overlap ("loli-able" stuff), but they do not care about any of the lolita rules, because it's ultimately otome style and not lolita. I wear otome style on a daily basis because it's easier and more casual than lolita, and it would be cool if there were stateside brands that had the aesthetic of ETC and MILK, but at the same time I think it's harder to produce than lolita actually... because fabric choice is even MORE important @_@

Anyway, what I'm getting at is, if you want lolitas to buy your stuff and wear it as lolita, stick to the basics. If you want a lot of leg-room but like the lolita aesthetic, try a different style maybe. It doesn't mean no one will like it, just be sure not to mislabel it.

And yeah, about broadcloth...
http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/en...ic_cotton.html Stuff like this is excellent.
It's trufax that the majority of lolita blouses are made of broadcloth like this. Just make sure it's a high thread count.
__________________
Fanime 2013 Lineup:
Minako Arisato (Persona 3 Portable)
Catherine (Catherine)
"Yuko" Narukami (Persona 4)

I have a tumblr too!
noctiluca is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 11:56 AM   #26
Sword-Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26
Thanks Nocti! Actually that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that.

And I know this is shooting myself in the foot, but... what do you mean by otome?


I'm thinking maybe I'll make some lolita stuff and some other too. The lolita stuff I'll keep to that style and such, and the other stuff I'll be more experimentive with.

One idea I had that I saw on a wa-lolita... what about eye-patches? Like, black butler style? I can totally see rose-shaped or heart-shaped eyepatches with frilled edges or bows over them. Would those fit in a lolita outfit? Maybe Goth loli?
And what did you guys think about seperate collars? After looking I did find some sold by Metamorphose... would those be something lolitas would look for? Maybe with a punk lolita or classic style?
Sword-Saint is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 01:34 PM   #27
Garen
unapologetic yorozuya
 
Garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,219
This is a muff.

This is a wristcuff.

Google image search is a very useful tool for this sort of thing. So is Wikipedia.

Broadcloth is useful, don't get me wrong. I made a whole dress out of it once, and it came out lovely. But you do have to keep an eye on the quality of the stuff, and it really is too thin for a dress or jumperskirt unless you're going to be lining it (the dress I mentioned was fully lined apart from the sleeves, essentially two layers of broadcloth). You can also use broadcloth as a lining for a garment made out of velvet or wool (I've got a vest and hat made out of wool flannel, lined with broadcloth). By the way, I'm generally talking about fabric choices for skirts, JSKs, and dresses, since that's what comes to my mind when I think of making lolita-wear.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpazItUp View Post
Hey it's cosplay, people sew things to their pants all the time! =D
"Give it your best shot if you think it's worth it, so if you fail it won't be for lack of trying. If it's not worth your best shot, then why bother?"

Sewing commissions are on hold, but I still do custom pattern-drafting. PM for details.

Katsucon:
Natsu (Fairy Tail), Alibaba (Magi), modern!Kili (The Hobbit)

AnimeBoston:
Yuri (ToV), Allen Avadonia (Evillious Chronicles), Yukimura (SDK)
Garen is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #28
Sword-Saint
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 26
Yeah good point Garen. hehe. Oops. :-)

Ah. Yeah I see what you mean, looking at more photos online. Kinda thin sometimes, huh? Hmm... weeeeellllll....guess I'll check it out.

One question i have (sounding like Yoda): why is it that there are these styles of lolita that are accepted but the one I don't see listed is the, like, pirate style? I mean, Baby has a whole line devoted to it! So why isn't that listed as a lolita fashion?
Sword-Saint is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 01:45 PM   #29
Garen
unapologetic yorozuya
 
Garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,219
I think pirate is more of a theme than a style. One could argue that the difference would be that you could pirate-theme a particular style without having it leave the style, or indeed pirate-theme more than one style. So it's kind of like some of the sweet themes (cake, teddybears, etc), except that you could use it with other styles as well.

I could be totally off, mind you.

Edit: For what it's worth, I stuck in a pic of the broadcloth dress. It's meant to be cosplay, but I'm the type who makes everything as clothing rather than costumes anyway. I think she's worn it as a dress since then, and I hope to everything she pulled the petticoat higher.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg imakeystuff.jpg (86.3 KB, 0 views)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpazItUp View Post
Hey it's cosplay, people sew things to their pants all the time! =D
"Give it your best shot if you think it's worth it, so if you fail it won't be for lack of trying. If it's not worth your best shot, then why bother?"

Sewing commissions are on hold, but I still do custom pattern-drafting. PM for details.

Katsucon:
Natsu (Fairy Tail), Alibaba (Magi), modern!Kili (The Hobbit)

AnimeBoston:
Yuri (ToV), Allen Avadonia (Evillious Chronicles), Yukimura (SDK)

Last edited by Garen : 11-23-2010 at 01:48 PM.
Garen is offline  
Unread 11-23-2010, 02:53 PM   #30
Ororo Howlett
When in doubt, FRAG OUT!
 
Ororo Howlett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sword-Saint View Post
Also, @ Ororo

This is YOUR words from the lolita handbook post:
"LOL If it's "fashion", then why does it have rules? I get the feeling that the same Loli's who strictly adhere to these rules, are also the one's who act very elitist (not to mention very unloli-like) and make fun of others who don't follow their rules on what this fashion should look like. It's kinda like "Follow our dogma, or be subject to ridicule!". Kinda like Joan and Melissa Rivers. I wanna know what makes these people think they're such experts.

Some of the nicest looking "Lolis" I have seen don't follow the rules, unnatural makeup and all. I love themed Lolis and Catgirl Lolis. And yes, EGL is just a costume for some people... including me *shock & awe*."


So by your own words, there should be room in lolita fashion for me to make my own designs. I love the look of the fashion, and want to help it along with my creativity! I'm not trying to destroy the fundamental pillars of lolita culture. I'm trying to offer new options for dress accesories! That's all.
Lawl, old post is old. I tend to cringe when I look at some of the things I posted (so so soooo sorry Meiki!). At that point I was what most consider to be an "ita". Look it up, it's not a compliment I can assure you!

You see, in order to infuse your style into a fashion that has guidelines such as lolita, you MUST know the basics. The problem we are running into with you is that you are asking some very basic questions that someone who is just getting into lolita would ask, yet you're ready to sell the things you make. It's just as if I watched an episode of Grey's Anatomy and said "Hey I'm ready to practice medicine! Erm... what does MD mean?" You have to walk before you can run.

This is why Meiki (and others) said that you need more research. Not just on the lolita side of things, but go get some books on textiles and other topics that would help a budding designer. Some sewing books have chapters dedicated to fabric types and embellishments.

EDIT: Grosgrain ribbon is best... and to be completely honest, I have no idea what thread count is appropriate. I just buy what the lovely ladies at Joann Fabrics suggest!
__________________
XBL Gamertag: ur NME 123
01010100 01101000 01100101 00100000
01100011 01100001 01101011 01100101
00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000
01100001 00100000 01101100 01101001
01100101 00101110
Ororo Howlett is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Copyright 2002-2013 Cosplay.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
All comments and posts in our forums are the opinion of the respective poster.