+

[von Drago]

Originally Posted by Gravely

not trying to make trouble for you bruce, promise.
since we are talking so much about these things on the cosplay forum, I do think the difference between a stage judge, and a presentation judge is very important

also, while I cant speak, for cc-31, I can say that cc-30 as well as 32, will be using the stage judge name, as well as instructing the judges and the audience, what the judges are tasked with looking for, and at costume con, the costume comes first.

As you know, I'm the first one to go on stage with a big over blown routine, so I am not presentation biased in the negative, but i believe the presentation is only there to provide a frame of reference to those watching it, so they have an idea about why the costumer may have made the decisions thay have.

there have been a time or two in the past decade where this wasnt so, and folks left scratching there heads as why things won, with what was percieved to be great skits, but average at best costumes. It has been hard for those of us trying to bring the cosplayers in, to get them to understand that, that is not the norm.

I know we have had this discussion in the past on the guild board, but since you are working specifically on CC with this. I think that continuing the discussion has merit

I'm not sure what the point is in changing the name though. Explain what the judges are looking for, certainly. I've always understood "presentation judge" to mean that they were judging the presentation of the costume not just the presentation itself.

Of course we shouldn't be using the term "judge" at all since at the CC level they're not perceived as competition, right? It's not supposed to be winners & losers. At the local level we've had some issue with this.

But is the FAQ really the place for this discussion?

[Buddycat]

Originally Posted by supergeekgirl

I stayed when it was in Milwaukee, and while I had a lot of fun, I just couldn't take enough time off this time around. But because the schedule is often difficult to read for Mondays, what I'm saying is that sometimes people don't understand it as a relaxing, last-chance-for-a-little-fun time because "4-day conference" makes it sound like Monday will be like Sunday at most cons, which it isn't. That's all. Not saying it's not fun to stay for Monday.

Mmm. Well, if that's the perception, then the standing committees need to do a better job of communicating the focus of Mondays. Something to make note of......

[CapsuleCorp]

If semantics is an issue, allow me to muddy the waters a little more from a newblet's standpoint. If I had the choice between presentation, stage, or performance, I would use "presentation" because to me, that's the most generic word for what happens on stage. "Stage" and "performance" imply actually having a huge performance - what the cosplay kids think a skit should be. I'm all about elevating walk-ons to appreciation and an art form, so I prefer "presentation" myself. BUUUUT...that's up to Bruce.

[Gravely]

my only point and concern is as far as the outreach to the cosplay folks goes, that's all. In that world, it is sometimes very blurry between whether the costume is the focal point.
that's all, I will stop now

[trixyloupwolf]

agree to gravely nya!

[Buddycat]

First of all, I don't claim any propriety to the FAQ. There's no centralized body to CC (although there is the service mark holder, who may agree with transitiioning of that term from what it has been known to be in the past), so if that's what future committees agree it should become, then that's what the FAQ will reflect. (That having been said, we should not go back in the CC archives and change the titles from what they have been known as, previously.)

CapsuleCorp has managed to muddy the waters a bit in a way I hadn't thought about. We do have to think about that the cosplay community is not the only group we're attracting, though. At least here in St. Louis, they will always be referred to as Presentation Judges because that's the way the MD refers to them. Her rules - her terms.

On the other hand, there is the whole "When in Rome" thing. If we were to go to an anime con, we would not expect the same general SF con "playground rules" to be observed there, so I would hope that those coming from other communities (not just cosplayers) would make an effort to investigate the differences at a CC. That includes any differences in terminology. Admittedly, however, CC committees have been slow to realize the venue has evolved beyond its original general SF con roots.

Explanations like that are beyond the scope of this FAQ. But I think it would be a good idea to create a Glossary of commonly used terms involving Costume-Con and post it on the website with the FAQ. Not only would it help clarify things like the judges and their functions, but it could be another tool for newcomer inclusiveness. I know, at least, CC8 had a glossary published in their program book - CC16 & 25 reproduced and expanded upon it. Not sure if anyone else has done it. Since cosplayers are not the only community CC pulls from, we could use the glossary to define and "synonymize" terms like: “Stage Judge” (AKA Presenation Judge), blah blah blah". "Ooks: blah blah blah".

Possibly a separate document should be posted just about how judging is supposed to work so people know what they're getting into, and then point them at the ICG Guidelines for Ensuring Fairness for more info. That's where you can explain "A good presentation makes a costume entry more entertaining, but this is not a skit competition."

[CapsuleCorp]

You are smart and I like this idea, bruce. Best compromise ever.

[von Drago]

Originally Posted by CapsuleCorp

You are smart and I like this idea, bruce. Best compromise ever.

He has his moments, especially when he has help

For the FAQ we could underline the terms that are defined within the Glossary. If the documents are online they could even be linked like they do on Bing (which is sometimes annoying on Bing but would be useful for us).

[supergeekgirl]

@Trixie - I'd love to do the Mousekerade again someday. I doubt this will be the year as it's such a long drive back again. I'm thinking... maybe in Toronto just for the heck of it.

/derailment of conversation

[trixyloupwolf]

nya!! yeah!! iam doing a doll maskerade at otakuthon this year ^^ (for bdj and dal and all those kind of doll) of course it will not be alike i ask the people of bjd fan they say it would be weird to do a skit =_=;;;; so mainly will be a doll contest maskerade with a parade with theyr doll in they hand


well some view are a lot diferent then other nya!!!
i do not mind all is fun ^^
nya!!!


someday ill host my own contest or event<3<3<3 i can still dream on hehehe!!

thanks> last time it was fun<3<3<3

[Gravely]

glossary would do well for us, nice idea for sure

[Buddycat]

That's probably something for the runacc list, since it's more to explain the "lingo" when someone comes to CC.