+

[Freight]

The Kyoto Grand is nice, but there's a pretty derelict stretch of streets between it and the Figueroa Corridor. I'd visit Little Tokyo for a bit around an AX, but for the most part I try to stay local.

And therein is the concern. 5 months of knowledge of this conflict, 2 months to go, and no real answers. I'd almost rather hear that they screwed up and they don't know what to do than nothing.

[countmeaway]

Ever since I've heard about this AX/X-Games issue, I am feeling more worrisome towards AX as a whole and the safety of con attendees as the event draws near.

The thing that concerns me the most is all of the gatherings that will be happening during the weekend. Granted that most of the cosplay gatherings take part in the late morning through the afternoon, these gatherings happen outside of the LACC buildings meaning that there is a possibility of roughhousing from some X-Games spectators.

God knows that no cosplayer wants to see a beat down during a gathering or during their con weekend for that matter.

[Freight]

No, and I doubt AX wants a reputation of having thugs for fans, or for being a place where some young fan had a broken nose for simply trying to take part in their convention.

But, without some kind of definitive word, I'm assuming I'm not going to Pre-Registration on Thursday, but I'll be walking around L.A. Live and trying to sort out this mess. It might mean trying to grab someone there and bending an ear on-site, but I doubt there'd be much done besides their security being heightened to prevent fan brawls.

[Hakaider]

Ever since I've heard about this AX/X-Games issue, I am feeling more worrisome towards AX as a whole and the safety of con attendees as the event draws near.

The thing that concerns me the most is all of the gatherings that will be happening during the weekend. Granted that most of the cosplay gatherings take part in the late morning through the afternoon, these gatherings happen outside of the LACC buildings meaning that there is a possibility of roughhousing from some X-Games spectators.

God knows that no cosplayer wants to see a beat down during a gathering or during their con weekend for that matter.

Well, one idea is to perhaps have the cosplay gatherings all move inside into the confines of the LACC. It's obvious that the entire West Hall entrance area won't be available for cosplay gatherings, because the X-Games will most likely take over & use that entire area.

I really wouldn't recommend having any cosplay gatherings be held in an open area, where a X-Games sports event is going on at the same time. (That is just simply asking for a fight to happen.)


Another safety idea is for the cosplayers to bring a whistle with a lanyard with them for protection. If they ever get into trouble, or are surrounded by drunken & hostile X-Games people, they can blow the whistle as loud as they can, and it will get the attention of everyone around them. (Whistles are also very cheap to purchase.)

In terms of safety, I really hope that the SPJA has got this worked out.

No, and I doubt AX wants a reputation of having thugs for fans, or for being a place where some young fan had a broken nose for simply trying to take part in their convention.

Well, if that worst case scenario happens, where a young fan does get seriously beaten up in front of the convention center, you may just get to see a major lawsuit or several lawsuits filed by the young fan's parents against all the SPJA members, if they don't take the necessary precautions to protect their attendees. (But hopefully, this worst case scenario will never, ever happen, and all the necessary precautions are being taken by the SPJA to protect the attendees.)


AX is already in serious debt to IDG World Expo. A major lawsuit would mean the end of AX. (This is something that the fans don't want to see happen.)

For those who haven't seen the article by Anime News Network, AX lost $1.2 million in 2010, and is currently in serious debt to IDG World Expo.

Here's the article:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-02-03/exclusive/anime-expo-2010-lost-us$1.2-million-idg-to-boost-involvement-in-2012

[Resident-chick]

Originally Posted by Hakaider

Well, one idea is to perhaps have the cosplay gatherings all move inside into the confines of the LACC. It's obvious that the entire West Hall entrance area won't be available for cosplay gatherings, because the X-Games will most likely take over & use that entire area.

I really wouldn't recommend having any cosplay gatherings be held in an open area, where a X-Games sports event is going on at the same time. (That is just simply asking for a fight to happen.)


Another safety idea is for the cosplayers to bring a whistle with a lanyard with them for protection. If they ever get into trouble, or are surrounded by drunken & hostile X-Games people, they can blow the whistle as loud as they can, and it will get the attention of everyone around them. (Whistles are also very cheap to purchase.)

In terms of safety, I really hope that the SPJA has got this worked out.




Well, if that worst case scenario happens, where a young fan does get seriously beaten up in front of the convention center, you may just get to see a major lawsuit or several lawsuits filed by the young fan's parents against all the SPJA members, if they don't take the necessary precautions to protect their attendees. (But hopefully, this worst case scenario will never, ever happen, and all the necessary precautions are being taken by the SPJA to protect the attendees.)


AX is already in serious debt to IDG World Expo. A major lawsuit would mean the end of AX. (This is something that the fans don't want to see happen.)

For those who haven't seen the article by Anime News Network, AX lost $1.2 million in 2010, and is currently in serious debt to IDG World Expo.

Here's the article:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-02-03/exclusive/anime-expo-2010-lost-us$1.2-million-idg-to-boost-involvement-in-2012

I think it's really sad that AX fans are having to bring whistle and the like just for a con.We got lucky last year since Ax10 was a floop.What brought us in may have just been Miku at LA live,but now with X-games there,it's really staring to seem like were having a huge problem underway;riots or fights.
I would REALLY hate it to see similar situations to the ones mention,and with the website down,we won't know anything until it opens up.Worst case scenario,one of us will be the bigger one and move for the safety of others,or we claude and see what happens

[Hakaider]

Worst case scenario,one of us will be the bigger one and move for the safety of others,or we claude and see what happens

I think it would solve 100% of the potential problems with the X-Games, if AX would just move the date, and the SPJA would take a really long hard look to see if it is really worth it in working out all the headaches in sharing the same area with the X-Games.

I have to wonder also, if there is a clause in AX's contracts with the LA Convention Center that would enable them to be able to change the dates. (Probably not.)


The X-Games has already taken the Nokia Theatre, Staples Center, the area surrounding the Staples Center, the entire LA Live Area, the streets around the convention center, the front entrances to the West Hall, the West Hall hotel shuttle drop off/pick up point, (And possibly blocking access to the major South Hall entrance as well) and most of the parking spots of the convention center will be taken by the X-Games people. In short, the X-Games have taken over the entire area, and the AX has been pushed aside into a small corner.


There's also the potential safety issues, and the difficulty of access to the convention center. Plus there are going to be various ongoing open air LOUD concerts that the X-Games will be having. (It will be LOUD enough that the AX attendee will clearly hear it inside the convention center.)


With that kind of odds, and potential lawsuits if something really bad were to happen to the AX attendees, if I was a SPJA Board member, I would just recommend pulling out, and have AX held at a different date. I'm sure the AX attendees would understand & be greatly relieved if the date was changed, and I think even ESPN would be relieved. (On second thought, ESPN wouldn't care one way or another. Their main concern is to make a profit with over 141,000 people, and it's not likely that that they are going to see it as their responsibility to protect the AX attendees. And if they do get sued in some way, that's still pocket change to them.)


The fact is that AX is broke, and they can't afford anymore costly mistakes. When you lost $1.2 million in 2010, it's not going to be easy to pay off that debt.


Unfortunately, at this late point in the game, it's highly doubtful that AX will be able to move the dates.

[DarkCloudInc]

Just a question, but why is it that everyone is assuming that if a fight breaks out or something else, it'll be SPJA on the hook rather than ESPN or both?

[Freight]

Well, there's no one saying that ESPN wouldn't share liability, but we're not speaking as X-Games attendees. We paid to go to AX. Unfortunately for the SPJA, there's evidence that they've known about the conflict for months, and since then, it's been pretty clear that we have safety concerns from the conflict.

As the smaller event, AX is the more mobile one. And since the X-Games announced their dates in September, there was ample opportunity to either change dates or negotiate some kind of walkway for us to utilize.

And, with the discussions here about different parties worried, and with AX not providing an alternative forum while theirs is down for non-cosplayers to disseminate information, it could be argued that the SPJA was knowingly making it yarder to voice our safety concerns, thereby, theoretically, opening themselves up to lawsuits if anyone is injured. Thereafter, it could spin into a class action suit against the AX, IDG, and the SPJA on the basis that they did not properly secure the convention for its attendees.

Again, this is all theoretical, but ESPN may not have a lot of liability since they didn't invite us to take part in their show and we didn't pay to view the X-Games. They would have minor liability for serving drinks, assum ing that occurs this year, but, more likely, the liability would be shifted to the XGame watcher who fought, assuming they are the instigator.

Then, ESPN is a thriving corporation with an armada of active lawyers. The SPJA is in financial trouble and couldn't afford the same quality of defense unless IDG steps in. The SPJA would be the easier target for an AX attendee with a shark lawyer.

[Resident-chick]

Originally Posted by Hakaider

The X-Games has already taken the Nokia Theatre, Staples Center, the area surrounding the Staples Center, the entire LA Live Area, the streets around the convention center, the front entrances to the West Hall, the West Hall hotel shuttle drop off/pick up point, (And possibly blocking access to the major South Hall entrance as well) and most of the parking spots of the convention center will be taken by the X-Games people. In short, the X-Games have taken over the entire area, and the AX has been pushed aside into a small corner.

Yes,your right.One of us,again,will need to either back down and change the date,or have a meeting between ESPN and SPJA to cooperate about the situation and how to prevent arguments or incidents.Its like a sibling rivalry,Older stronger meaner brother gives younger nicer weaker sister a corner to play in.AX can't afford another screw-up since AX10 profit loss case.If someone gets hurt,it's like dropping glass.You try hiding it and it fails,you try picking it up you fail and you always get cut;We get sued for money,then get sued for injures,we close and no more AX.

[Hakaider]

Just a question, but why is it that everyone is assuming that if a fight breaks out or something else, it'll be SPJA on the hook rather than ESPN or both?

As Freight has said, noone is saying here, that ESPN won't be off the hook.

The big difference here though, is that if ESPN gets sued, it's pocket change for them. They have an army of lawyers who can settle the matter with no problem. (Remember, they can easily afford it, if one of the athletes gets hurt during their show. And some of their athletes DO get hurt during the show.)

Also remember, that if ESPN really wanted to, they can get Brad Pitt and Angelina Jollie at a moment's notice. Money is no object for them.

If the SPJA gets sued, it's pretty much over for AX. (Especially with the loss of $1.2 million in 2010.)

As I have said before in the other thread, here's the difference financially between the two organizations:

AX: "How much would it cost to rent/negotiate the LA Convention Center?"

ESPN: "When & how fast do you want us to write the check? Wait..Did you say $5 million to bring in the trained live elephants overnight from Africa & India, and live dancers from Brazil for the street parade? That's all? Do you want us to bring "Shamu", the killer whale in, as well?"

[Access]

Originally Posted by Resident-chick

I think it's really sad that AX fans are having to bring whistle and the like just for a con.We got lucky last year since Ax10 was a floop.What brought us in may have just been Miku at LA live,but now with X-games there,it's really staring to seem like were having a huge problem underway;riots or fights.

This is actually what we did in College, there were some unfortunate incidents at nearby colleges so the school staff handed out whistles to anyone who wanted them and established a protocol for what to do when a whistle was blown.

Whistles are also standard issue in my hiking groups, especially for children as it gives them a way to be found if they become lost (in the wilderness, a whistle can be heard for miles)

[BizarreSerenity]

The Kyoto hotel is VERY nice, luxurious, and well priced. But they don't like a lot of noise. This year we're staying at the Western though, so we will be closer and have the shuttle service. Is the Western any good? It had nice reviews, but I'd like to hear from some fellow con goers about it.

[BizarreSerenity]

I really hope they won't change the date. My boyfriend can't move his leave date and our hotel is already paid for.

[ShinjiEva01]

Yes it's nice I stayed there in 08 and 09 and ill be staying there this year.

[BizarreSerenity]

Awesome. Thank you!