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Unread 04-20-2012, 01:31 PM   #46
BizarreSerenity
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Still pissed off over the fact that AX STILL hasnt let us know anything, and it's two months before con.
Also, no concerts this year, right? If so, does that mean no rave as well?
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Unread 04-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by DarkCloudInc View Post
You're making the point to target ESPN rather than AX, if the option to sue both isn't available. A lawyer wants a guaranteed source of income and it is in the best interest of the lawyer and their client to target the company that has the most available resources available, again if they had to choose a single company.

If there is alcohol involved, the vendor selling it is the one who's held liable. It is up to the vendor to know when to refuse selling liquor to the customer by law. With ESPN being the vendor, they are liable for selling liquor to an intoxicated person and their actions thereafter. If the person involved is intoxicated and an incident where an injury is a result, the injured party can not only sue the involved party but ESPN as well.

With ESPN having the most available resources on hand, they have the most options to manage their attendees. Should they fail to manage their attendees, they should be held accountable for their failures.

By the way, as a result of the US Supreme Court's ruling in AT&T Mobility v. Concepcion, a class action is no longer an easy option to take as companies can now force arbitration.

I'm not a lawyer, just a news junky.
The AT&T Mobility v. Concepcion decision that California can't enforce anti-arbitration clauses in contracts. Since the hypothetical situation doesn't involve signed contracts between the parties, I don't think that particular case law applies.

Again, we haven't said that ESPN couldn't be a party, but they have some very daunting legal professionals working for them that would, more likely, shift blame to the vendor that sold the alcohol, and they would have some minor liability since selling alcohol doesn't guarantee that all buyers of the same could handle their liquor. If you could sue the vendor for simply providing alcohol, than Anheiseur Busch (sp), Absolut, Bacardi, and other liquor makers would be a party to every drunken accident that occurs on the highways across America.

An attorney would be concerned with the overall settlement/monetary compensation, of course, but since the SPJA signed the agreement with IDG making them partners in the AX, and since there's open discussion online of their attendees worried about their safety, they would be the simplest pocket to go after, and now, IDG can be added as a party to such a litigation.

IDG is a Forbes 500 company with over $3.24 billion in earnings from 2011 per Forbes webste. Click here to see the Forbes profile.

ESPN is part of another Fortune 500 company, Disney, Inc.

So, there's two large companies to go after, but I bet IDG/SPJA would be a more appealing target than going after Disney's attorneys.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 02:51 PM   #48
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So, there's two large companies to go after, but I bet IDG/SPJA would be a more appealing target than going after Disney's attorneys.
It's not one companies' attorneys or another, most of the time there is some kind of liability or indemnification policy in place so the insurance company is going to either settle outright, or provide (most likely hire out) attorneys who attempt to negotiate a settlement (very few cases actually go to court) and any settlement payments are going to be made by that policy.

You can find the line-item for insurance on the numerous form 990's, for instance:
http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_...00912_990O.pdf
page 10, line item 23, $8981.

On the 2010 form (from guidestar)
page 10, line item 23, $23,830.

In general, liability insurance in almost a given in today's world, lawsuits may be rare but few foundations are willing to risk not having liability insurance when the costs of litigation can be in the hundreds of thousands.

As an example see page 8, section B of the same 2010 form 990
"OLIVER & SABEC ... / LEGAL SERVICES / $391,158."
and page 10, line item 24c
"LEGAL SETTLEMENT $70,000."
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Unread 04-20-2012, 02:57 PM   #49
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My greater concern than encountering drunken sports fans is about just how logistically this con will work. If the entrances at both West Hall and South Hall are being obstructed by the X-Games layout, it sounds like this con will be a big hassle even if I wasn't planning on wearing costumes. The continuing silence is not encouraging.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 03:10 PM   #50
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I may be a bit concerned with the fans I may encounter, especially dressed as Yoko. But it's easy to just put my head down and quickly walk by, so I'm not worried too much about that. But Nemuren raises a good point. it's going to be a bitch to find a way in. I know that the L.A live courtyard will be X-games terratory, but they'll have to have a path threw there if you think about it. All the resturants, and even just their own attendies needing to get to the J.W Marriot right there. Plus that would be a big fire hazzard if there was no exit/entrance through there for people to go.

It might not be an ideal way to walk, but it will be possible.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 03:12 PM   #51
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Nemuren you are not the only one, people in my group (the one I normally go to cons with) and others I know of are making similar plans. Forgoing less mobile cosplays, not cosplaying at all, cutting back on the number of days, planned to attend, etc.

Unfortunately there just isn't a lot of certainty out there and some of the more complicated cosplays can take months of preparation. Also a lot of the larger gatherings are trying to figure out a usable location but there isn't much clarity on this topic either.

Personally I just have a lot of general concern for instance if both the main entrances to the convention center (the numerous doors in front of south hall, the doors in front of west hall) are blocked or rendered inaccessible by the large outdoor event, what then happens if the building has to be evacuated (like the bomb scare last year) or there is a fire?

Honestly I'm not sure if we will go as a group this year; even if we gain sufficient clarity before the convention, it may be too late as people will have made other plans or already made up their mind.

As things stand we are going to have twice the people going to Fanime as compared to AX; it might seem kinda odd for a local group (AX is a two hour drive, Fanime is a six to eight hour drive or a one hour plane ride) so honestly I might be going around AX this year with a different group than the usual one.

Last edited by Access : 04-20-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 03:23 PM   #52
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I believe AX has the ability to change dates under extreme circumstances (and the x games is extreme in more than one way) but would have to be done about 6 months in advance but I guess they figured they would still be able to do what they had planned, so with 2 months left they can't due to all the worldwide attendance, contracts with announced guests and everything, so at this point if they moved it even to the weekend after all hell would break loose.

X games ppl will roughly be everywhere especially at the new hooters across the street from the Convention Center, parking prices around the CC will be going up tremendously and people will get rowdy by late afternoon/evening so be prepared and be safe people.

SPJA will have just as much liability as ESPN will but there should be a good amount of police around to protect and serve.

As for Exhibitors there should be atleast one path they can use because it's important and would create more havoc
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Unread 04-20-2012, 04:16 PM   #53
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Well, the whistle idea is the simplest one.

I've also had a group of friends pass on AX. Some are going to Fanime and others have just decided to dtay home. About the only group I have not greatly affected is the DOAX group.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 06:04 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by El_Duque View Post
The key here is ESPN Zone at LA Live. They have broadcasting studios (ESPN LA, late night Sportscenter, radio booths, etc.) upstairs from the restaurant. They would wnat to keep everything close as possible. Where else could held it? The Forum? I doubt that.
The L.A. Coliseum, Home Depot Center, Long Beach Marine Stadium were all previous venues for the X-Games...the Rose Bowl, L.A. Sports Arena, Honda Center and Angel Stadium could also be viable venues also.

As it stands, I haven't seen any confirmation as to venues for this year's X-Games, so I can't form a decent opinion about crowd issues that may not have a possibility of happening. The only comment I have on this so far is that I'm sure the City of Los Angeles (owner of the LACC) and AEG (owner of L.A. Live) have plans in place when there are events held at both locations. Otherwise, the owner of AEG would've been crazy to consider building a football stadium near L.A. Live...
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Unread 04-20-2012, 07:31 PM   #55
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amateur_cameko, this is the best we can find right now... STAPLES Center, Nokia Theatre L.A. Live, etc.

http://www.chiff.com/recreation/sports/x-games.htm
"As usual, more than 200 athletes will compete in skateboarding, motocross, BMX, and rally car racing at traditional venues throughout Los Angeles including the STAPLES Center and Nokia Theatre L.A. LIVE."

The big questions are the setup for the rally car race (if held in the same place as last year, it would effectively block the entrance to south hall) and then the rest of the setup that would make the entrance to west hall inaccessible.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by BizarreSerenity View Post
Still pissed off over the fact that AX STILL hasnt let us know anything, and it's two months before con.
Also, no concerts this year, right? If so, does that mean no rave as well?
There first GoH announced for this year is a musical GoH, LiSA. As for the dances, it might be held at the Westin. In 2009, the dances were held there with a not so great result.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 09:27 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
As it stands, I haven't seen any confirmation as to venues for this year's X-Games, so I can't form a decent opinion about crowd issues that may not have a possibility of happening. The only comment I have on this so far is that I'm sure the City of Los Angeles (owner of the LACC) and AEG (owner of L.A. Live) have plans in place when there are events held at both locations. Otherwise, the owner of AEG would've been crazy to consider building a football stadium near L.A. Live...
Actually, with the stadium deal ratified by the city, L.A. may own the convention center, but it's managed by AEG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Access View Post
The big questions are the setup for the rally car race (if held in the same place as last year, it would effectively block the entrance to south hall) and then the rest of the setup that would make the entrance to west hall inaccessible.
It is a question, though I'm pretty sure the 2011 plans didn't block the South Hall, but the rally ran down to the street running underneath the skywalk bridge of the LACC, Pico Boulevard, and turned back up the loading area in front of West Hall. South Hall wasn't blocked, which is fine, but it still shoehorns us into one entrance point, one general area for gatherings, and it will choke traffic in and out of the event.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 04:15 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Freight View Post
[...]Again, we haven't said that ESPN couldn't be a party, but they have some very daunting legal professionals working for them that would, more likely, shift blame to the vendor that sold the alcohol, and they would have some minor liability since selling alcohol doesn't guarantee that all buyers of the same could handle their liquor. If you could sue the vendor for simply providing alcohol, than Anheiseur Busch (sp), Absolut, Bacardi, and other liquor makers would be a party to every drunken accident that occurs on the highways across America.[...]
As I said, if one was required to select a single company as the one to be sued.

As for the companies you listed, those are the manufacturers, they are not the merchant as specified under state law.

Depending on how ESPN handles the booths that sell the liquor, ESPN could be the one that is being sued since it is their responsibility to refuse the sale of liquor to an intoxicated person. If is found that the company that sold the alcohol to the intoxicated person who in turn caused a fatality, the company is held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person as per state law. It is on this basis that ESPN can be held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person should it result in an injury or assault.


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[...]So, there's two large companies to go after, but I bet IDG/SPJA would be a more appealing target than going after Disney's attorneys.
The bigger the risk, the bigger the gain. I'd place my bet on ESPN/Disney since their capital is direct and there is a lot to be said about a lawyer who fought against ESPN and won. With that under an lawyer's belt, the sky's the limit.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 05:14 PM   #59
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Right now, people on this forum are having preconceived notions of what X-Games fans (which hasn't been confirmed by ESPN itself that they will even be near the area) will do when they see a bunch of people attending an anime convention...I'm pretty sure most people, even drunk, will just do a double-take at the cosplay and continue on their way. If that wasn't the case, they would've never held Star Trek conventions in Vegas...

I grew up in Las Vegas, and there are many different events going on at the same time, with attendees to these different events more likely staying at the same hotel. For example, on the same week last December, there was the Rock 'n Roll Marathon, Michael Jackson Fan Fest, the National Finals Rodeo, and a NASCAR event all going on on the Strip. The only issue I heard about that week was runners getting sick on the night time marathon run (a good reason why most marathons are held in the morning and when you can run on empty stomach). The point of the story is that you can have a bunch of fans of what to some may be mutually exclusive things in the same place, and more likely than not there will be more socializing than harrassing.

I agree with FancyIndia. If you really think a group of people that you may never encounter will actually come and bother you, then maybe you should just do something else that weekend. Very rarely does anyone want to pick a fight. The only people who do are the ones who think they can win and feel they have something to prove.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 09:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCloudInc View Post
As I said, if one was required to select a single company as the one to be sued.

As for the companies you listed, those are the manufacturers, they are not the merchant as specified under state law.

Depending on how ESPN handles the booths that sell the liquor, ESPN could be the one that is being sued since it is their responsibility to refuse the sale of liquor to an intoxicated person. If is found that the company that sold the alcohol to the intoxicated person who in turn caused a fatality, the company is held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person as per state law. It is on this basis that ESPN can be held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person should it result in an injury or assault.


The bigger the risk, the bigger the gain. I'd place my bet on ESPN/Disney since their capital is direct and there is a lot to be said about a lawyer who fought against ESPN and won. With that under an lawyer's belt, the sky's the limit.
You're not understanding me. The argument is that you can't place the vendor as the sole blame in such an incident because the vendor can't gauge if someone's a lightweight in a quick encounter. There's people that can be drunk of one moderate drink, and there's no way for a vendor to gauge that on the spot. Therefore, the person buying would be the party more liable than the vendor.

But this is still an issue with the SPJA/IDG because they're not adapting to the new situation that creates safety issues.

By the way, I'm a legal secretary, so I spent some time talking with a couple of the attorneys I assist. *Listing the targets, they would rather go after the SPJA/IDG. *Dealing with Disney is like a white whale. *That's an awesome award, but you still have deep pockets and a situation that could have been avoided with some work on the SPJA's end versus a veritable mouse-eared juggernaut.*
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