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Unread 04-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #46
LelouchYamazaki
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I believe AX has the ability to change dates under extreme circumstances (and the x games is extreme in more than one way) but would have to be done about 6 months in advance but I guess they figured they would still be able to do what they had planned, so with 2 months left they can't due to all the worldwide attendance, contracts with announced guests and everything, so at this point if they moved it even to the weekend after all hell would break loose.

X games ppl will roughly be everywhere especially at the new hooters across the street from the Convention Center, parking prices around the CC will be going up tremendously and people will get rowdy by late afternoon/evening so be prepared and be safe people.

SPJA will have just as much liability as ESPN will but there should be a good amount of police around to protect and serve.

As for Exhibitors there should be atleast one path they can use because it's important and would create more havoc
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Unread 04-20-2012, 05:16 PM   #47
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Well, the whistle idea is the simplest one.

I've also had a group of friends pass on AX. Some are going to Fanime and others have just decided to dtay home. About the only group I have not greatly affected is the DOAX group.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 07:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by El_Duque View Post
The key here is ESPN Zone at LA Live. They have broadcasting studios (ESPN LA, late night Sportscenter, radio booths, etc.) upstairs from the restaurant. They would wnat to keep everything close as possible. Where else could held it? The Forum? I doubt that.
The L.A. Coliseum, Home Depot Center, Long Beach Marine Stadium were all previous venues for the X-Games...the Rose Bowl, L.A. Sports Arena, Honda Center and Angel Stadium could also be viable venues also.

As it stands, I haven't seen any confirmation as to venues for this year's X-Games, so I can't form a decent opinion about crowd issues that may not have a possibility of happening. The only comment I have on this so far is that I'm sure the City of Los Angeles (owner of the LACC) and AEG (owner of L.A. Live) have plans in place when there are events held at both locations. Otherwise, the owner of AEG would've been crazy to consider building a football stadium near L.A. Live...
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Unread 04-20-2012, 08:31 PM   #49
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amateur_cameko, this is the best we can find right now... STAPLES Center, Nokia Theatre L.A. Live, etc.

http://www.chiff.com/recreation/sports/x-games.htm
"As usual, more than 200 athletes will compete in skateboarding, motocross, BMX, and rally car racing at traditional venues throughout Los Angeles including the STAPLES Center and Nokia Theatre L.A. LIVE."

The big questions are the setup for the rally car race (if held in the same place as last year, it would effectively block the entrance to south hall) and then the rest of the setup that would make the entrance to west hall inaccessible.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by BizarreSerenity View Post
Still pissed off over the fact that AX STILL hasnt let us know anything, and it's two months before con.
Also, no concerts this year, right? If so, does that mean no rave as well?
There first GoH announced for this year is a musical GoH, LiSA. As for the dances, it might be held at the Westin. In 2009, the dances were held there with a not so great result.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 10:27 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
As it stands, I haven't seen any confirmation as to venues for this year's X-Games, so I can't form a decent opinion about crowd issues that may not have a possibility of happening. The only comment I have on this so far is that I'm sure the City of Los Angeles (owner of the LACC) and AEG (owner of L.A. Live) have plans in place when there are events held at both locations. Otherwise, the owner of AEG would've been crazy to consider building a football stadium near L.A. Live...
Actually, with the stadium deal ratified by the city, L.A. may own the convention center, but it's managed by AEG.

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The big questions are the setup for the rally car race (if held in the same place as last year, it would effectively block the entrance to south hall) and then the rest of the setup that would make the entrance to west hall inaccessible.
It is a question, though I'm pretty sure the 2011 plans didn't block the South Hall, but the rally ran down to the street running underneath the skywalk bridge of the LACC, Pico Boulevard, and turned back up the loading area in front of West Hall. South Hall wasn't blocked, which is fine, but it still shoehorns us into one entrance point, one general area for gatherings, and it will choke traffic in and out of the event.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 05:15 PM   #52
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[...]Again, we haven't said that ESPN couldn't be a party, but they have some very daunting legal professionals working for them that would, more likely, shift blame to the vendor that sold the alcohol, and they would have some minor liability since selling alcohol doesn't guarantee that all buyers of the same could handle their liquor. If you could sue the vendor for simply providing alcohol, than Anheiseur Busch (sp), Absolut, Bacardi, and other liquor makers would be a party to every drunken accident that occurs on the highways across America.[...]
As I said, if one was required to select a single company as the one to be sued.

As for the companies you listed, those are the manufacturers, they are not the merchant as specified under state law.

Depending on how ESPN handles the booths that sell the liquor, ESPN could be the one that is being sued since it is their responsibility to refuse the sale of liquor to an intoxicated person. If is found that the company that sold the alcohol to the intoxicated person who in turn caused a fatality, the company is held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person as per state law. It is on this basis that ESPN can be held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person should it result in an injury or assault.


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[...]So, there's two large companies to go after, but I bet IDG/SPJA would be a more appealing target than going after Disney's attorneys.
The bigger the risk, the bigger the gain. I'd place my bet on ESPN/Disney since their capital is direct and there is a lot to be said about a lawyer who fought against ESPN and won. With that under an lawyer's belt, the sky's the limit.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 06:14 PM   #53
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Right now, people on this forum are having preconceived notions of what X-Games fans (which hasn't been confirmed by ESPN itself that they will even be near the area) will do when they see a bunch of people attending an anime convention...I'm pretty sure most people, even drunk, will just do a double-take at the cosplay and continue on their way. If that wasn't the case, they would've never held Star Trek conventions in Vegas...

I grew up in Las Vegas, and there are many different events going on at the same time, with attendees to these different events more likely staying at the same hotel. For example, on the same week last December, there was the Rock 'n Roll Marathon, Michael Jackson Fan Fest, the National Finals Rodeo, and a NASCAR event all going on on the Strip. The only issue I heard about that week was runners getting sick on the night time marathon run (a good reason why most marathons are held in the morning and when you can run on empty stomach). The point of the story is that you can have a bunch of fans of what to some may be mutually exclusive things in the same place, and more likely than not there will be more socializing than harrassing.

I agree with FancyIndia. If you really think a group of people that you may never encounter will actually come and bother you, then maybe you should just do something else that weekend. Very rarely does anyone want to pick a fight. The only people who do are the ones who think they can win and feel they have something to prove.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 10:44 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by DarkCloudInc View Post
As I said, if one was required to select a single company as the one to be sued.

As for the companies you listed, those are the manufacturers, they are not the merchant as specified under state law.

Depending on how ESPN handles the booths that sell the liquor, ESPN could be the one that is being sued since it is their responsibility to refuse the sale of liquor to an intoxicated person. If is found that the company that sold the alcohol to the intoxicated person who in turn caused a fatality, the company is held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person as per state law. It is on this basis that ESPN can be held liable for the actions of the intoxicated person should it result in an injury or assault.


The bigger the risk, the bigger the gain. I'd place my bet on ESPN/Disney since their capital is direct and there is a lot to be said about a lawyer who fought against ESPN and won. With that under an lawyer's belt, the sky's the limit.
You're not understanding me. The argument is that you can't place the vendor as the sole blame in such an incident because the vendor can't gauge if someone's a lightweight in a quick encounter. There's people that can be drunk of one moderate drink, and there's no way for a vendor to gauge that on the spot. Therefore, the person buying would be the party more liable than the vendor.

But this is still an issue with the SPJA/IDG because they're not adapting to the new situation that creates safety issues.

By the way, I'm a legal secretary, so I spent some time talking with a couple of the attorneys I assist. *Listing the targets, they would rather go after the SPJA/IDG. *Dealing with Disney is like a white whale. *That's an awesome award, but you still have deep pockets and a situation that could have been avoided with some work on the SPJA's end versus a veritable mouse-eared juggernaut.*
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Unread 04-21-2012, 10:46 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
Right now, people on this forum are having preconceived notions of what X-Games fans (which hasn't been confirmed by ESPN itself that they will even be near the area) will do when they see a bunch of people attending an anime convention...I'm pretty sure most people, even drunk, will just do a double-take at the cosplay and continue on their way. If that wasn't the case, they would've never held Star Trek conventions in Vegas...

I grew up in Las Vegas, and there are many different events going on at the same time, with attendees to these different events more likely staying at the same hotel. For example, on the same week last December, there was the Rock 'n Roll Marathon, Michael Jackson Fan Fest, the National Finals Rodeo, and a NASCAR event all going on on the Strip. The only issue I heard about that week was runners getting sick on the night time marathon run (a good reason why most marathons are held in the morning and when you can run on empty stomach). The point of the story is that you can have a bunch of fans of what to some may be mutually exclusive things in the same place, and more likely than not there will be more socializing than harrassing.

I agree with FancyIndia. If you really think a group of people that you may never encounter will actually come and bother you, then maybe you should just do something else that weekend. Very rarely does anyone want to pick a fight. The only people who do are the ones who think they can win and feel they have something to prove.
Well, preparedness is necessary, and that's what we're trying to decide since we're not getting much from the AX... or they're telling their people not to give us anything. I'm not sure. However, bigger cons than the AX have encountered some very visceral harassment by parties in the same area such as this event.

And it doesn't take more than one person to give another person a very bad time.

And sorry for the double post, but I was getting more Internal Server errors.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 11:02 PM   #56
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man i never heard of that incident at dragon-con, i swear to god if i see any douche vebally abusing or any kind of harassment to anyone there will be problems. i just cant let these kinda things go buy without anyone doing anything.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 01:09 AM   #57
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With the case in 2010 of fans being stabbed at the USC-UCLA game at the Rose Bowl and the Giants fan beating last year at Dodger Stadium, I would think sporting event organizers in L.A. would boost up security to keep such problems from happening to avoid a PR nightmare.

Again, I still think it's a bad to assume that because college football fans caused some trouble in Atlanta, then extreme sports fans in L.A. must also be troublemakers. The only useful advice anyone could give when sharing a space with people who may be different from you (hotel, street, opposing team's stadium, college campus, being an American in a foreign country, an urban area like downtown L.A., etc) is travel in groups (or find someone to escort you if uncomfortable traveling alone) and be aware of your surroundings. And if confronted by someone bothering you, walk/run away if possible. If not possible, try to get the attention of people nearby. This is pretty basic college orientation stuff.

Exactly what do you want AX Staff to do when you're outside of the convention space? If you're that concerned about being harassed at the hotel, then stay at the Westin Bonaventure where most AX attendees stay at who will probably have your back and you can take a shuttle that takes you directly to the convention center. Or just don't go.

It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-22-2012 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Adding more commentary. Added link to safety tips.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 05:40 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.
To each their own I guess. Maybe these people just want to get on TV, who knows.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 10:24 AM   #59
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With the case in 2010 of fans being stabbed at the USC-UCLA game at the Rose Bowl and the Giants fan beating last year at Dodger Stadium, I would think sporting event organizers in L.A. would boost up security to keep such problems from happening to avoid a PR nightmare.
I do think police presence will be enhanced some, but pointed out in a previous post, there's a baseball series going on that weekend at Dodgers Stadium the entire weekend, and they require a lot of officers for their standing security. There's going to be need in several places, so I'd imagine that things will be rather stretched.

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Again, I still think it's a bad to assume that because college football fans caused some trouble in Atlanta, then extreme sports fans in L.A. must also be troublemakers. The only useful advice anyone could give when sharing a space with people who may be different from you (hotel, street, opposing team's stadium, college campus, being an American in a foreign country, an urban area like downtown L.A., etc) is travel in groups (or find someone to escort you if uncomfortable traveling alone) and be aware of your surroundings. And if confronted by someone bothering you, walk/run away if possible. If not possible, try to get the attention of people nearby. This is pretty basic college orientation stuff.
That's what we've been discussing. Could you clarify something for me? You keep advocating that there's nothing to worry about, but you're also advocating wariness. So, is there nothing to worry about or something to worry about?

And please understand, I'm not overly worried about myself. I'm 35 years old, 270 pounds. I can take care of myself. However, I am worried that there is limited discussion or preparedness by the SJPA or AX staff. The most of a notification I've seen about the situation is a happenstance post in my own rooming thread by someone, and from there, we began a discussion, and there are a lot of younger people that may be unaware of this issue.

The discussion was pretty benign until another poster found the X-Games 2011 map, the one that shows the X-Games ownership of the L.A. Live area and putting the people in the Luxe and the Marriott to walking either unsafe distances or into unsavory areas to circumvent the X-Games borders. I went did my own digging and found the 2010 X-Games Map. The rally wasn't there, but the set up in the L.A. Live setup is very similar, so there is a high likeliness that this core set up will remain. Therefore, a plan of action should be in place, and if AX does not or will not set one, then it's up to us to come up with one.

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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
Exactly what do you want AX Staff to do when you're outside of the convention space? If you're that concerned about being harassed at the hotel, then stay at the Westin Bonaventure where most AX attendees stay at who will probably have your back and you can take a shuttle that takes you directly to the convention center. Or just don't go.
Well, I avoid the shuttled hotels since the quality of the shuttles has been scaled down on a year by year basis, and last year, there were comments that some people were left waiting over an hour for shuttles. Some were even bumped off shuttles to give staff priority, despite already waiting an amount of time. Now, with the potential detours that the shuttles can be making if the rally is in the same place as last year, that could be a level of frustration that can just ruin a convention experience.

And "don't go" isn't quite an option since I have a block of rooms and people are signing up very quickly. Especially since a large amount of these people I know and are friends, I'm not going to leave them swinging in the wind.

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It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.
Could you link to those threads, please? I could only find one locked thread on the issue.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 12:00 PM   #60
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http://community.anime-expo.org/inde...=&fromsearch=1

What I advocate is being as prepared as you would be in any unfamiliar area. I have two trips planned this year to foreign countries I've never been to before, and I'm gonna prepare the same way I would for AX. Be aware of your surroundings, look at maps, plan travel routes, know emergency numbers and taxi numbers, don't do anything that could garner unwanted attention (like brandishing a prop weapon at someone who might not be familiar with what you're doing). No one can control the actions of people they don't know, but you can always control your own response to a situation. I never will start a fight (fights are only started by those who think they can win), but I will do what I can to end it quickly. If people aren't following the basic tips in the link I posted in a last post anytime outside of a convention, then the chances of getting stuck in a bad situation will always be high no matter where one goes.

There's always stuff to worry about. Worry can only cripple you if you don't make plans and believe you should rely wholly on event organizers to think of everything for you. You just can't buy a badge and book a room and say you're ready. If I did that, I'd probably have wasted a lot of time and money on every vacation I've been on.

Remember that it isn't only AX that will be affected this year. Local bus service, nearby businesses, hotels, and residential buildings will also be affected. So all parties have to come to the table in order to make this weekend as pleasant as possible for all.

And in terms of lack of preparedness, I would think AX is probably a little more prepared at this point since they've been selling badges for almost a year already and have a rough headcount. ESPN won't start selling tickets until next month. I'm sure at this point, both parties have started discussions about the scheduling of both events on the same weekend.

Another way of looking at this is it was known since September that the X-Games were returning to L.A. You too also had time to back out if you believed that it would be a problem.

Rereading this thread, I notice the concern about alcohol...Alcohol's always been available at L.A. Live even when there's no event. It's been available at Staples Center during the WNBA game and NKOTB/BSB concert. Meet and greets are planned at bars among the 21+ attendees on the AX forums every year. And I'm sure people bring their own to the hotels.

After reading the "Is Dragon*Con Broken?" article (which seems to me contains a little discriminatory language to perceived non-fans), especially the comments section, it seems to me a lot of what happened there was a lack of professional help for the con organizers especially with access control to the con as it was held at the hotels, which is not the case with the LACC and its roving band of badge checkers even at the front door.

It's sounding like your biggest fear is outside of the L.A. Convention Center. If you're having trouble at the hotel with rowdy hotel guests not part of a particular event, you call the Front Desk, not convention organizers. If you're having trouble with someone while walking down the street to get to/from the con, you keep walking or try to get help from the nearest person who can help you.

You're never going to be in a hotel or public space outside of the L.A. Convention Center that is 100% full of fans (and even in the LACC you'll meet people who hate your particular fandom), so you'll just have to deal with the fact that you will meet people who may have strong opinions that are different from yours, just like real life. You can either get yourself drawn into the other person's provocation and end up in a fight, or walk away. Basic rules of self-defense 1) Don't fight 2) If you can't get out of a fight, fight to win. And most people will follow rule 1.

I apologize if this post doesn't seem well written as I've been editing a couple times, but I am really not a fan of people who are too afraid of encountering different people to the point that they feel that it's management's responsibility to ensure that attendees to different events must be kept isolated from each other.

There are a lot more things to worry about than getting picked on by a bunch of drunks:

-murder of two students near the USC campus down the street a few weeks ago
-school teachers being arrested for lewd conduct with students
-earthquakes
-car accidents
-random crimes that can happen anywhere and anytime

Again, if you're not practicing basic safety tips and being aware of your surroundings when you're not at AX, then there really is no hope for you when you'll be traveling the same routes as fans of other events.

If you're coming from a place that is really 100% safe from taunts and harassment, good for you as that is not what the rest of the world is like.

If you haven't felt a little worry in everyday life, then you've never learned to adapt to bad situations in the first place.

If your friends have never learned how to deal with the possibility of criticism or harassment, then they should learn before even coming.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-22-2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: More commentary
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