Go Back   Cosplay.com > US Convention Forums > Anime Expo

Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 12 votes, 5.00 average.
Unread 07-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #166
Freight
Rolling 20's Podcast Host
 
Freight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Access View Post
And you really need to give the whole Freight thing a rest, this isn't about Freight, or you, or me, or anyone else for that matter. It's about AX, what went right, what went wrong, what can be done better, and so on.
You might as well stop talking to him. He's cherry-picking little phrases rather than comprehensively reading anything. If he read, he'd know that I'm not claiming to blow anything out of proportion. My wife suffered assault, and assault doesn't always constitute harm so much as offensive contact and potentially tort. If she was bruised, that would more likely fall under battery, even though that doesn't always have overt symptoms of physical harm either. (Spitting in someone's face can be charged as battery.)

He refuses to understand because he doesn't know the difference between the two, or the liability issues. He's also assuming that my recourse is to sue for money, and that doesn't interest me. I want to know who signed the contracts when in connection with the final acceptance of AX 2012's dates and if I had that, I would write a full letter to the SPJA Board requesting action and making that sure that person(s) record was updated since there's likely to be an election regarding the Board Members and operations members coming soon since Lattanzio was "resigned" last September.

Of course, sometimes simple concepts are overlooked by those who aren't paying attention.

What do you think in regard to music acts, Access? I always though AX should have a great marquee-level band like Orange Range or Asian Kung-Fu Generation, even another Vocaloid concert, followed up by newer acts, like LiSa or others, to draw the most available fans, in addition to a mystery or surprise appearance each year. Would sustained years like that push growth?
Freight is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Unread 07-15-2012, 09:49 PM   #167
Access
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freight View Post
What do you think in regard to music acts, Access? I always though AX should have a great marquee-level band like Orange Range or Asian Kung-Fu Generation, even another Vocaloid concert, followed up by newer acts, like LiSa or others, to draw the most available fans, in addition to a mystery or surprise appearance each year. Would sustained years like that push growth?
I don't know if it would increase attendance that much, I mean three to four thousand is the general ballpark for how much those concerts draw (or have drawn in the past, I believe). Nokia seats up to seven thousand thereabout when full (correct me if I am wrong) but have they ever filled the Nokia completely? And does someone who came for a big concert one year keep coming in subsequent years, or do they just move on to the next big thing?

But it would be good for the fandom, if nothing else. Seeing, for instance, what the vocaloid concert did for vocaloid fandom or awareness in general. It almost tripled, in the months leading up to and following the concert, even today it is x2 to x2.5 what it was before. Really that one concert made a lot of other things going on today possible.

Part of finding A-class talent is predictive, if you can find someone who has A-class potential in their earlier years, nothing wrong with that. I mean it sounds like people really enjoyed the LiSa concert... so really they did their job there well.
Access is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2012, 10:11 PM   #168
Freight
Rolling 20's Podcast Host
 
Freight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,717
Makes sense.

The most I've heard of going on at the Nokia Theater was a 5,000 seat Christmas Show held by a morning show for KLOS Radio. Though they added seats after selling out, so the exact number isn't known to me. I'd have to get a brochure from the Nokia to answer that with any certainty.

Would surprise performances by highly-regarded talent also help? I don't mean 100% unannounced appearances, but appearances made by high-level talent is announced, but not their identity.
Freight is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2012, 10:47 PM   #169
Access
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,044
Surprises can be more effective if done properly, ie.
if you have a surprise appearance every year at a main event, without announcing which main event beforehand, then people will attend things they might not otherwise, like that they're less interested in -- in hopes of being there for that years surprise.

It needs to be managed correctly, ie. having the surprise guest appear halfway through the event, rather than at the beginning.

Other permutations exist, ie. announce the guest but not which main event they will be showing up at, or using the rumor mill to your advantage to start a rumor that an already announced guest of honor will show up at a certain event, provided you can follow through and make the rumor 'come true' in a way (in reality the rumor, or some permutation of it, is the plan all along).

An example would be like starting a rumor (using AX live or something like that) that Danny Choo was going to show up at the "Bad Jokes by the CEO" panel and give the CEO the boot at some point, taking over the panel. But the real plan (which only the two of them know) calls for a boke and tsukkomi routine between the two. And they are the only ones that know it, so other staffers are either denying it or insisting that they don't know anything about the rumor. This also helps promote AX live as a way to hear the latest 'rumors'.

Of course a surprise can backfire too, but that is the risk you take in coming up with these schemes.

Last edited by Access : 07-15-2012 at 10:50 PM.
Access is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2012, 10:50 PM   #170
Freight
Rolling 20's Podcast Host
 
Freight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,717
Of course. It was only thought and guesses of improvements to the concert structure.

Thanks for the feedback. It's one of those things where it helps draw a full picture an issue if you can bounce it off someone and get another opinion.
Freight is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2012, 11:12 PM   #171
Oberst
Registered User
 
Oberst's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Access View Post
No, what I am saying is fault versus responsibility. As in, sometimes you have to deal with things in life that aren't your fault, but that it's still your responsibility to fix (by virtue of your position, duty, business model, leadership role, logistics, etc.) From the perspective of an event organizer, it should make sense. Throwing up your hands and saying "It's not my fault, therefore, I'm not going to try to address/fix/solve the problem (that is affecting people at my event)" is one of the worst things you can do.
So lets try to be clear on this, I believe you are still trying to support the view that AX could have easily changed dates, Honestly, , and I know this from personal experience, it is NOT as easy as you Forum heroes seem to think. There are so many issues involved, again, try doing it yourself and you might come to understand the situation better.

Not only does the venue then run the risk of losing Patron attendance, since people generally plan out their vacation windows according to the dates initially provided, and they may not have the flexibility to change their travel plans etc... But there is also the GoH's too, this industry is always working! While getting American GoH's might be a bit easier, since they are more local, this is a Japanese focused convention, and the Japanese industry is always at work in one way or another, they have very limited windows of free time, which may be one reason why AX only starts showing the GoH lists as it gets very close to the Convention.

In my area of entertainment, the GoH's I try to line up are often busy throughout the year on National tours, so to lock in a GoH for a specific date is one thing, but if I change the date of the event I know I will most probably lose the GoH, not always, but it has happened enough now that I no longer change event dates, also in every example where I changed a date, I LOST attendance and had to issue refunds, simply because the attendees in many cases had other plans on the new date that they could not change their schedules to accommodate the new date.

So while you guys go about looking at attendance figures, think for a bit, do you really think more people would have shown up for a new date had AX changed it? Now sure, I know you will fire back that some people decided NOT to attend this year due to the X-Games, lets nip that right away shall we, the numbers they lost for keeping the date are less then if they had changed it.

Oh sure, for the Californians attending the numbers might not have gone down much, but for all those flying in from across the country and from around the World, yes the losses would have been very very high indeed.

As far as any safety issues due to keeping the event date and dealing with X-Games, It went very well. I saw far more security in place both with AX staff, and with X-Games and Police on hand outside. There were whole squads of X-Games staff everywhere outside on the few occasions I was out in their area of security, they were all polite and helpful. The same with AX staff I met almost everywhere we walked about the LACC. This year they even had Peacebonding staff making the rounds of the LACC which I never saw before on previous visits to AX.

So, based on your statements, AX did take a look at the Safety issues and they did step up the security to deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freight View Post
He's cherry-picking little phrases rather than comprehensively reading anything. If he read, he'd know that I'm not claiming to blow anything out of proportion. My wife suffered assault, and assault doesn't always constitute harm so much as offensive contact and potentially tort. If she was bruised, that would more likely fall under battery, even though that doesn't always have overt symptoms of physical harm either. (Spitting in someone's face can be charged as battery.)

He refuses to understand because he doesn't know the difference between the two, or the liability issues. He's also assuming that my recourse is to sue for money, and that doesn't interest me. I want to know who signed the contracts when in connection with the final acceptance of AX 2012's dates and if I had that, I would write a full letter to the SPJA Board requesting action and making that sure that person(s) record was updated since there's likely to be an election regarding the Board Members and operations members coming soon since Lattanzio was "resigned" last September.
You like dancing in mine fields dont you? My problem with you is not with what happened to your wife, and I could care less about whether you wish to sue someone or not. You are still trying to hold either AX or some AX executive accountable for something that they had no control over, it did not happen within the areas they had control over, TRY AND GET THAT INTO THE EMPTY SPACE BETWEEN YOUR EARS. If you want to hold someone accountable, then it can only be the guy who assaulted your wife, and possibly the Hotel, THAT IS IT. Just as you could not hold Disneyland accountable if you got hurt outside of their property, the same holds true here.

Last edited by Oberst : 07-15-2012 at 11:24 PM.
Oberst is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-15-2012, 11:38 PM   #172
Freight
Rolling 20's Podcast Host
 
Freight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst View Post
You like dancing in mine fields dont you? My problem with you is not with what happened to your wife, and I could care less about whether you wish to sue someone or not. You are still trying to hold either AX or some AX executive accountable for something that they had no control over, it did not happen within the areas they had control over, TRY AND GET THAT INTO THE EMPTY SPACE BETWEEN YOUR EARS. If you want to hold someone accountable, then it can only be the guy who assaulted your wife, and possibly the Hotel, THAT IS IT. Just as you could not hold Disneyland accountable if you got hurt outside of their property, the same holds true here.
Not true.

Civil liability is much easier to prove and act upon than criminal liability and the line is clearer than you think.

  • If those final contracts were signed after September 16, 2011, then someone at the SPJA decided that the risk of friction between the attendees of the two events was acceptable, i.e.: a foreseeable consequence.
  • My wife was assaulted by an individual, and that is corroborated by a third party.
  • As a result of someone at the SJPA signing those contracts after finding out about the dates of the X-Games, they created a foreseeable consequence that could have been avoided.
  • That makes the SPJA individual(s) who signed the contract, and by extension the SPJA, liable for the consequences.

Now, this is one of those fortunate situations where the victim wasn't hurt, but that also calls into question the decisions of the individual(s) as they could place the organization and the event into future perilous liability situations. As an interested party who wants to see the convention continue and survive, I want to know when those contracts were signed and by who. Based on the above chain of events, that individual or individuals needs to be escorted from the SPJA before they create a situation where the convention is held civilly liable for damages and possibly kill the convention under a damages lawsuit.

It's similar to a person loaning his car to someone that accidentally hits someone else in a crosswalk. In this case, the person driving has liability for the damages, and so does the person who loaned the car. Him loaning the car created a foreseeable consequence that allowed the opportunity for the accident even though he wasn't a direct party to the action that caused injury.

Last edited by Freight : 07-16-2012 at 12:26 AM.
Freight is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 12:07 AM   #173
Oberst
Registered User
 
Oberst's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 122
LOL You are stretching WAY too far on this one my friend. The Hand of Civil Liability in this instant can help you with a civil case against the Hotel, but a court will not let you stretch it out toward an Event, simply because they did not change a convention date, and two conventions were held at the same time. Remember, the city of Los Angeles allowed both events to take place at the LACC/Staples Center. There were two conventions, so trying to hold one accountable and not the other will not wash either. (Now, if a Riot had occurred between the two events, and your wife had been injured in said riot, then, even if it had happened at the hotel you might have been able to use this avenue.)

The example of loaning someone your car and then they have an accident is not applicable to the case you are envisioning here. The reason the owner of the car can be held accountable in such an instance is because it is HIS/Her's property and it was involved in the accident, the owner made a choice to loan the car out. A good example of this would be, if your wife had been injured at AX, you could also hold the LACC responsible, since they own the property the convention was held at and where the injury took place.

In your case, the incident happened at the hotel, that type of incident can happen in a hotel at any time, who knows, since your wife clearly cant tell us, whether the guy was drunk or not? If he was, did he drink at the hotel?

Again, a smart Lawyer would tell you to use a civil liability case against the Hotel, that would be your best chance for a WIN in court. Trying to pick and choose who to blame and reaching at proverbial straws is only going to waste a lawyer's and the court system's time, and again, the world will have let you down.

Best of Luck on this one.... Please let us all know how this pans out wont you? :P

Damn me but you are great for a laugh man, you really are.

Last edited by Oberst : 07-16-2012 at 12:10 AM.
Oberst is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 12:26 AM   #174
Freight
Rolling 20's Podcast Host
 
Freight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,717
Ah, but that makes the signing of the final contract the critical component. If signed after September 16, 2011, after a posting on the AX forum detailed that the SPJA was aware of the X-Games dates, then they had the opportunity to move dates and prevent the events that took place. That's the final link in the liability chain. The negligence of the signer would be the cause of the event and liability can be established under res ipsa loquitor.
Freight is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 12:39 AM   #175
Hakaider
Sith Happens..
 
Hakaider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,148
@Freight:

Dude, I would really, really recommend to just stop keep responding to Oberst. You just know it's never going to end with him, and he's always going to try to have the last say.

Try to resist the temptation to respond & ignore his posts. His posts doesn't exist & just move on.

(I would advise everyone to also do the same.)

Like the old saying goes..."Don't feed the trolls."
Hakaider is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 12:49 AM   #176
Oberst
Registered User
 
Oberst's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 122
You are living with a delusion of Grandeur here that you can get some sort of personal revenge against AX or an AX executive. you go on and keep the faith on this one.

I honestly would advise you to listen to your buddy here, and I would advise you to try and keep your posts to the topic of this thread, which is simply feedback about this year's convention, whether you liked it or not, what you liked and did not like about it, and will you attend next year.

This thread is NOT about the political, executive structure of, nor the Financial history of Anime Expo. I am sure the AX staff is already very aware of their own political, executive, and financial situations, they only want to know what you thought about the convention this year, and any general suggestions about making it a better convention next year. They dont want to know about your personal vendettas, although I am sure their own lawyers are getting as much of a laugh out of your posts as I am.

use the K.I.S.S. system people. (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Last edited by Oberst : 07-16-2012 at 12:52 AM.
Oberst is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 12:54 AM   #177
Hakaider
Sith Happens..
 
Hakaider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,148
@Freight;

I almost forgot to mention this. Are you going back to the J.W. Marriott for AX next year, and doing the room sharing plan for AX attendees again?

I'm sure a lot of the AX attendees who got rooms really appreciated it.

Last edited by Hakaider : 07-16-2012 at 12:58 AM.
Hakaider is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 01:40 AM   #178
Access
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberst View Post
So lets try to be clear on this, I believe you are still trying to support the view that AX could have easily changed dates, Honestly, , and I know this from personal experience, it is NOT as easy as you Forum heroes seem to think. There are so many issues involved, again, try doing it yourself and you might come to understand the situation better.
You are catastrophizing, I already gave two real-world and relevant examples (comic-con in the past and wondercon this year) where conventions changed with even less than 10 months warning. And both these were very successful events. This isn't a circular debate thread where you are encouraged to debate or criticize other's feedback about AX over and over again, really you are making far too many assumptions about everyone and need to just chill because most of us are just wrapping up and thinking about next event and next year.
Access is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 09:30 AM   #179
Freight
Rolling 20's Podcast Host
 
Freight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Access View Post
You are catastrophizing, I already gave two real-world and relevant examples (comic-con in the past and wondercon this year) where conventions changed with even less than 10 months warning. And both these were very successful events. This isn't a circular debate thread where you are encouraged to debate or criticize other's feedback about AX over and over again, really you are making far too many assumptions about everyone and need to just chill because most of us are just wrapping up and thinking about next event and next year.
The L.A. Marathon, as well, moved with less than 6 months warning.

It's interesting how his assumptions keep changing from minute-to-minute. Meh.

@Hakaider. I talked to a few people about their interest in going back to AX under my structure and had a positive response, so I don't see why not. The Touhou dinner went better than I thought it would for a lot of improvisation. The podcast I did, one of the other people interviewed recognized me and I was surprised. It's one of the coincidences you think isn't possible, but it happened. I didn't interact a terrible amount with them because I spent time with my wife and she's not terribly comfortable with new people, but they were all friendly and eager to help. Very, VERY nice people in the Touhou group.

The X-Games won't be there, so that headache is out of the way. My hope is that the AX works on it's inter-departmental and fan communication before then so things are clearer before and at the convention.
Freight is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-16-2012, 06:14 PM   #180
Vash129
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 111
@everyone who was talking about growing the con by bringing in big GoH, I think that this could work if they could sustain awesome main events every year. One example was Asian Kung-Fu Generation, personally I would love this. Also since they never tour in America I think pulling an act like this could pull in a big crowd. If you do this over the years people will keep coming back for the events. While some people will come only for the event and nothing else, others will come and enjoy the conventions. This plus some other methods I think could steadily increase the attendance rate.

If I remember correctly they almost gotta Orange Range in 2010, which I was extremely excited about. This was until the whole Lattanzio situation. I believe he flew out to Japan and insulted them so they did not come.

I believe next year will be a good year. They actually make a way to take out feedback this year, which means that they are listening. Along with that we will have LA back to ourselves and the feel will be much better. We will also have much more room to move about and take pictures.

My biggest disappointment this year was the masquerade. I liked how they changed the format and put walk-ons first then skits. But I felt that the skits this year were severely lacking. I am not sure if this was due to the fact that people were sad about not having the nokia theater again or what but it seemed like most people could not connect with the skits. I give a ton of credit to everyone who gets up and does these this was just my opinion and the general response I received when talking to people about it. I think they should add back the prize money for best in show. I think the first year people really thought that because of the money the best cosplayers would come and no one would have a chance. This didn't turn out to be true. I think people realize that now and it would really have an effect on the skit levels. Also the half time shows. This one was better but, the only other one I have ever really liked was 2007 with the ninja VS pirates 300 story.

Also I think that everyone should get the one free main event ticket. I dont like how they changed this in recent years. I think for huge concerts its fine, but for the AX main events like masquerade it should be free.
Vash129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:15 PM.


Copyright 2002-2013 Cosplay.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
All comments and posts in our forums are the opinion of the respective poster.