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[AtelierV]

Originally Posted by Hime no Toki

Simple answer - one too many cheaters entering craftsmanship-based costume competitions.

Cheater is a loaded word in this sense.

OP: There are conflicting philosophies about such contests. On one end of the spectrum are those who see it as a "best costume" contest; hall cosplay contests frequently work from this mentality, where the question is simply "how awesome?"

On the other end of the spectrum, and this side is much more deeply entrenched, are those who advocate worksmanship in the sense that WorldCon or CostumeCon define it, which is that the contests recognizes the creator's skill rather then the wearer's awesomeness.

The former appeals to a wider audience but more contest directors tend to subscribe to the latter. Some cons compromise by having both a casual hall contest with relaxed rules and a more stringent worksmanship contest as part of their masquerade to placate the "skill counts" camp.

However there is always some overlap as casual contests are sometimes judged by worksmanship-leaning judges and casual entrants inadvertently enter worksmanship contests. In an effort to preserve the concept of a worksmanship contest, some judges and directors have taken increasingly radical steps in controlling entries, such as what you saw. These steps are radical when viewed from the perspective of an anime convention, but are par-the-course at CostumeCon. However, CostumeCon is not not a particularly *fun* convention to attend; the costuming is amazing but so are the schizms and slights and decades old grievances about contests long since forgotten by everyone else.

[Rangiku12]

Originally Posted by sailortintin

Going to have to disagree with this one. Now if some one entered it as an exhibition (Just showing off the costume without being judge on craftsmanship...and a nod to the maker wouldn't hurt either) then no one would mind. People spend a lot of time making their costumes and to get shifted by someone would commissioned or bought theirs would not be fair to both the people who made theirs and the actually person who made (commissioned or bought) the buyer's costume.

Ive never been to a con so im just stating if you just want to show it off I don't know the rules for the craftsmanship contests or whatever. I just think we should be able to show off our outfit and not have a million questions asked. I only know about look alike contests ive been to. People would wear the same thing and most of the stuff was store bought..the judges there didnt care.

[Illa Scriptor]

But that's not the *point* of a cosplay masquerade. Yes, it helps if the wearer looks great and wears the costume well, but the point of these competitions is the combination of costuming and play (looking like the character/what have you). If you want to get recognition for looking awesome, enter a non-competitive event, or just walk around the halls. It's unfair to people who have spent a lot of time making their own costumes to compete if you enter something that's bought and don't say so.

[supergeekgirl]

Not all cons have that rule. In fact, "documentation" at some cons means documenting your research rather than your methods.

But yes, LOADS of people try to pass off work they didn't do as their own. Sometimes you can tell, for example when a costume in the masquerade is very well-tailored, but they don't know terms like "selvage". It's a bit of a tip-off that they couldn't have made it themselves because they'd have to have seen that word over and over on the pattern or at least known the concept because it wouldn't hang the way it does otherwise. It's sad people do that, but people really do think it's okay to cheat just for a free DVD or even just a ribbon and a handshake.

[Amanita]

If my con required lots of work in progress pics, I'd already be screwed on the costume I'm doing now. I've completed two pieces already, and didn't bother taking those kind of pictures.

Now, when I do a write up for my costume, I describe each piece and how I made it, even if I don't have work in progress pics. Hopefully being able to describe the process, and how I altered patterns to get what I want is something that would work in my favour.

[Tangledinblue]

Originally Posted by arrancar12

This is why I will never enter one of those contests. It shouldn't matter who made the outfit. You paid for it,You fixed it up,You wore it,and if you want to enter it in a contest I say go ahead..its not like we can force the commissioner who made it to come to a con just to authenticate your outfit. Once its on your body its yours.. regardless who made it. Not everyone is a sewing master.

But it's a craftsmanship contest. It's kind of cheating if you enter a cosplay that someone professional made. If you just want to walk around the con in a cosplay you bought, that is fine, no one is going to stop you.

[CapsuleCorp]

Nnnnnot touching the side topic. Telling people in the masquerade forum topics that they're doing it wrong is like backseat driving before you earn your learner's permit.

ANYWAY.

"Cheating" may be a loaded word but it's also an accurate one. I have personally caught cheaters LYING to my face about a purchased costume. For the sake of what, potentially earning a certificate to stick on their wall that says "first place?" But violating the rules of a contest which state you must have made your own costume with a costume you didn't make...well, that's pretty much what the word "cheating" means. It doesn't happen everywhere, and really, happens relatively infrequently, but it does happen. And that's why we have rules, as well as checks and balances to be sure that everyone in the green room is playing by those same rules, equally and fairly.

I also respectfuly disagree with the idea that CostumeCon is not fun. I have LOADS of fun at every CC I can make it to.

Looking at the provision of progress photos from a judge's standpoint, though...I have to say that personally, I've never found them to be very helpful. I hardly look at them. Sometimes it's because there just isn't time, but sometimes it really isn't necessary because I'm able to learn everything I need to know about the entrant's skill and process of building the costume via the interview and hands-on inspection of the finished piece. I don't need to see the plaster base of the helmet before the outer shell was formed on top of it, I can see the finished helmet and ask about the construction process and get the same idea. Other judges may feel differently, but that's how I look at it. Ever since becoming a regular judge, I've actually cut down on the number of progress photos I include in my own documentation when I compete, because I now know from experience that judges don't really look at them. They're nice, but not necessary. So the only real reason I can see for any masquerade implementing a rule requiring progress photos has to be to catch cheaters. Strongly encouraging progress photos is great, but I hope I never have to require them.

[Amanita]

Yeah, I would rather not compete against professionals, or professional work myself. Let's face it- a pro often has a lot of formal training that us hobbyists don't. And due to making their living making clothes and costumes, they have a lot of hands on experience that most of us hobbyists with either classes or regular jobs just can't match.

So separating professional from amateur work is fair, IMHO. It keeps the amateurs and hobbyists from getting sandbagged by the pros, and also (if pros are allowed to compete in a separate category), gives the pros an honest competition too- they're competing against their peers, so a win is most likely going to mean more, than if they showed up at the contest and blew a bunch of hobbyists out of the water for an easy victory.

I would be very upset if I spent months slaving away at a costume, only to lose to somebody who bought a leather coat off the rack, and falsely claimed to have made it, or who ordered a suit of Master Chief armor from somewhere, and claimed it was their own work. Now, if Master Chief and their leather clad friend entered into a non competitive category, or entered a separate category for professional work, I would not mind that at all, it's a whole other ball of wax.

[AtelierV]

Originally Posted by CapsuleCorp

I also respectfuly disagree with the idea that CostumeCon is not fun. I have LOADS of fun at every CC I can make it to.

The year CostumeCon was in town I was struck by how many of the attendees I had conversations with pointed out other people in the crowd, criticized their costumes or how they felt they'd cheated x years ago and how they would have won if the judges had known.

But the people I talked with were mostly older, so maybe the younger crowd isn't that way.

[MDA]

Speaking from my own experience with masquerades, I've never been asked to provide WIP shots, at most just a reference image of the character so that they can judge if I was close or completely off. Though, if you had to make modifications to the design - ie modesty reasons, they will accept this if you explain why you changed it.

But the masquerades that I've done so far you don't NEED to have the craftsmanship judged, sometimes its just about performances if the convention doesn't have a separate skit contest. Workmanship judging is often optional. But I've only needed to give a reference image of the costume.

But I can understand the needing of WIP since many try to enter with a bought cosplay.

[Elycium]

Originally Posted by AtelierV

The year CostumeCon was in town I was struck by how many of the attendees I had conversations with pointed out other people in the crowd, criticized their costumes or how they felt they'd cheated x years ago and how they would have won if the judges had known.

But the people I talked with were mostly older, so maybe the younger crowd isn't that way.

Those are likely just people who are bitter about losing. A lot of people get that way and will accuse someone of cheating because, well heck "I didn't win, so they MUST have cheated to be my superamazingspeshul costume". That attitude is prevalent among the newer crowd too, sadly.

Ive never been to a con so im just stating if you just want to show it off I don't know the rules for the craftsmanship contests or whatever. I just think we should be able to show off our outfit and not have a million questions asked. I only know about look alike contests ive been to. People would wear the same thing and most of the stuff was store bought..the judges there didnt care.

The point of a craftsmanship contest is just that. To show off your craftsmanship. If you didn't make your costume, then you aren't allowed to compete in that part of the contest. To do so is to claim someone else's work as your own, and that's cheating (unless the maker is there and just using you as a model). There -are- cons that do allow people to just walk in the fashion show and show off costumes, regardless of who made them, but those people aren't actually part of the contest, and won't be able to win any awards. Look alike contests =/= craftsmanship contests.

Anyway, speaking from a judge's stand point, I love seeing progress shots, just because sometimes they make understanding the process that the cosplayer took a little easier to understand. Plus its just nice to see the whole process of things coming together. I love them. However, I've never judged at a convention where progress shots were mandatory. We're more concerned about having a good reference picture.

As a seamstress I take all kinds progress photos. Its a good habit to be in, since if you have to re-do something for any reason, you have shots of what went where and so on. And really, any cell phone these days has a camera so lack of digital camera is something that's not even an issue any more. If a con required progress shots, I'd be more upset at not having printer ink, as opposed to "being forced to bring progress shots".

[Ayekasong]

Originally Posted by AtelierV

The year CostumeCon was in town I was struck by how many of the attendees I had conversations with pointed out other people in the crowd, criticized their costumes or how they felt they'd cheated x years ago and how they would have won if the judges had known.

But the people I talked with were mostly older, so maybe the younger crowd isn't that way.

May I just ask out of sheer curiosity, which year this was? I have only been to CC twice, and since they are all different, I'm just wondering which particular year this was.

As for the original topic, I think the first time I saw this requirement show up was in 2010, and the rules for this particular competition directly explained that the reasoning was due to a big problem with cheating. At that particular con, I am not surprised that people try to pass off others' work as their own. However, I do not think it is as big of a problem at most cons.

Part of me wonders if this happens because of an attitude among a small subset of people who think that having a cool costume automatically entitles you to go on stage. Perhaps it is a remnant of the days when some small cons actually allowed audience members to come up on stage and compete, or perhaps it is some misconception that Halloween costume contests are the same thing as costume contests at anime conventions.

Irregardless, I feel that having progress pictures is helpful and often good to include in your documentation, but I do not like the idea of making it mandatory. Primarily because I fail to remember to take progress pictures. But also, like others have said, I would hope that the people judging me would know what questions to ask to determine whether or not my costume was purchased.

[Akune-chan]

Personally, an interview of how you made your cosplay would scare me away from masquerades, since heck, half of the time I usually wing it and use whatever needles and thread I have (I am pretty sure that I am not the only one). I usually hand sow my cosplays and rarely know what method of sowing I am using, the thread type, and other minor details that would possibly weed a "cheater" out. Plus actually explaining the process from month to month in a matter of a few seconds? Nah uh. That would be time consuming on the judges part and the cosplayers part.

WIP shots are a good idea up to a point. :/ Personally I don't think it would really help since I read some of the posts here about uploading progress photos on their blogs/deviantart/photobucket. If a "cheater" commissioned a cosplay and they stumble upon that blog that has progress shots? Bingo. There goes the whole system of weeding out the cheaters. Also, I think you can ask the commissioner for in progress shots of the costume, right?

There is probably no safe way to weed out the cheaters. And that is probably the hurtful truth. =/

[Elycium]

Akune, no the process isn't a perfect way to weed out cheaters. Someone could easily look up enough sewing jargin to wing their way through a judging sessions, with or without progress photos (I've seen it happen).

However, don't let the fact that you hand sew and don't know "proper methods" deter you from competing, if you think you'd like to eventually give it a try. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen someone come through and just say "and I did all of my sewing / most of my sewing by hand". The judges aren't going to hold it against you that you couldn't tell them the exact type of stitch that you used. If it looks good, fits well, and looks like you're character (and you made it, lol) then you would be fine. Don't let the fact that you usually "wing it" make you feel like you can't compete. More often than not, no matter how we're putting our costumes together, whether its by machine or by hand, we're almost all of us "winging it"

[Akune-chan]

Originally Posted by Elycium

Akune, no the process isn't a perfect way to weed out cheaters. Someone could easily look up enough sewing jargin to wing their way through a judging sessions, with or without progress photos (I've seen it happen).

However, don't let the fact that you hand sew and don't know "proper methods" deter you from competing, if you think you'd like to eventually give it a try. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen someone come through and just say "and I did all of my sewing / most of my sewing by hand". The judges aren't going to hold it against you that you couldn't tell them the exact type of stitch that you used. If it looks good, fits well, and looks like you're character (and you made it, lol) then you would be fine. Don't let the fact that you usually "wing it" make you feel like you can't compete. More often than not, no matter how we're putting our costumes together, whether its by machine or by hand, we're almost all of us "winging it"

Mhm I agree ^^
Hopefully I'll be able to get enough guts to enter this year. =] Thank you for your words.

Are props allowed as well? Just a thought.