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[peacelovepasta]

Guys- when you see a female cosplaying as a male, do you find it cute? Weird? Confusing?

I was just wondering and thanks!

[MagicalStar]

A good cosplay is a good cosplay to me. If they have fun, that's even better~.

So no, I don't find it weird or confusing. o:

[ImNewHere]

That's how I feel. If the girl puts the effort into it and at least tries then I can appreciate the costume. A girl crossplaying a guy doesn't bother me at all.

[Access]

Not really, I know enough people that do this that it doesn't really affect me either way. In fact certain male characters I expect it, like how many Len's do you see that are actually guys? Not a lot.

I've known couples where the boyfriend got bent out of shape about it, but mainly that's an image thing. I mean I've also seen couples where both of them are crossplaying, like a cloud / yuffie pair a while back.

[Dictamnus Albus]

if they pull it off, then good for them,

if they get insulted easy from people refering to them as guys, until corrected
then they shouldnt do it

personally id prefer seeing "genderbent" cosplay
(where they characters gender is changed instead)

i just feel its wierd to go all drag queen, if you can have the same fun
cosplaying as a oposite gender version of the character

im kinda sexist when it comes to this stuff

if a dude does it, im like "lol, thats messed up bro" but i have no care one way or the other

if a girl does it, for cosplay, im more "its kinda wierd, but good for you"
but in everyday life its more "why would you do that to yourself? you could be so pretty"

[KuruttaKanashii]

<rant>
Yeah, dude, that is really sexist. Sometimes a female cosplayer can make herself look more like the male version, or doesn't want to make the genderbend's more complicated costume, or just doesn't like the genderbend. Like me, I chopped off a foot of hair to cosplay the guy version of a character.
There are also girls who don't want to "be pretty in everyday life". Just like not all guys wear tuxedos with a carnation in the buttonhole every day. Yeah, it'd be nice if everyone was elegant all the time, but there are things called not getting enough sleep and rushing out the door in ratty jeans and no make-up. Not every girl is attempting desperately to attract a mate with her appearance. Sorry to break it to you, but women are not obligated to make themselves drop-dead gorgeous for your viewing pleasure while you get to go about with your pants halfway off your butt all the time.
Besides, this is cosplay. As in it's from anime. As in the men are just as damn pretty as the women. Crossplay is not doing something horrible to yourself, any more than wearing a wig is.
</rant>
(An anecdote- out of curiosity I asked my straight and manly older brother: "if a very hot chick who was crossplaying a really manly guy asked you to yaoi with her, would you?" He grimaced briefly before replying "you know, that's just kinky enough.")

[TenTigerLilies]

Originally Posted by KuruttaKanashii

<rant>
Yeah, dude, that is really sexist. Sometimes a female cosplayer can make herself look more like the male version, or doesn't want to make the genderbend's more complicated costume, or just doesn't like the genderbend. Like me, I chopped off a foot of hair to cosplay the guy version of a character.
There are also girls who don't want to "be pretty in everyday life". Just like not all guys wear tuxedos with a carnation in the buttonhole every day. Yeah, it'd be nice if everyone was elegant all the time, but there are things called not getting enough sleep and rushing out the door in ratty jeans and no make-up. Not every girl is attempting desperately to attract a mate with her appearance. Sorry to break it to you, but women are not obligated to make themselves drop-dead gorgeous for your viewing pleasure while you get to go about with your pants halfway off your butt all the time.
Besides, this is cosplay. As in it's from anime. As in the men are just as damn pretty as the women. Crossplay is not doing something horrible to yourself, any more than wearing a wig is.
</rant>
(An anecdote- out of curiosity I asked my straight and manly older brother: "if a very hot chick who was crossplaying a really manly guy asked you to yaoi with her, would you?" He grimaced briefly before replying "you know, that's just kinky enough.")

THIS.

[Eau de Decus]

Go for it. There's nothing wrong with it, so if you want to do it, knock yourself out. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another, but if you do it well, then I tip my hat to you.

Originally Posted by Dictamnus Albus

im kinda sexist when it comes to people in general

Clearly.

[Dictamnus Albus]

first off, dont misquote me

thats not fair, and i resent your response,
i never said that women should go out of thier way so we can oogle them

i made 2 statments

first, that i understand cosplay is diferant, its more an artfull expression than just dress up
and i didnt say its okay for men and not girls, its excentric either way
i only meant that i dont care whats guys do,
but for girls, i can appreciate the art and thier motives just the same
its just as a guy, i prefer not to see girls dressed up like a man cause it detracts from thier beauty, even if only temorary

and second, im perfectly fine with the "tom-boy" look,
its just that when i see women that just seem to not care at all about how they look,
i die inside, cause it shows the corruptant nature of social influence

im not talking bout not styling thier hair, and wearing doilies
i mean, letting thier piercings rot in thier face,
dressing inapropriatly for thier body type... not cause they cant afford otherwise
or even cause their happy the way they dress,
some even blantently make themselves look like crap

i can look at a girl whom most would consider "less then moderatly atractive"
and see the ravishing drop-dead gorgeous vixen behind the veil

i just cant comprehend why anyone with the means, would purposly look like crap

but back to cosplay...
again im just fine with crossplay,excentric or not
i just think genderbent is more personal than crossplays or cosplays clone attempt,
but hey, what ever makes you happy makes me happy

someone tell me where i was ofensive, cause i really dont see it, and if you find its the last sentence of my first post, then you compleatly missed the context,
which means, perhaps you are of lesser empathy and moral standing than you would like others to believe

and if a girl wanted to crossplay a yaoi couple with me, i could do that,
as long as i can tell griefers to go f themselves

[LupinTheBored]

Originally Posted by peacelovepasta

Guys- when you see a female cosplaying as a male, do you find it cute? Weird? Confusing?

I was just wondering and thanks!

Ach! *runs* I was here for all the dudes that dress as chicks. Women doing it? GROSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Cosplay however you want though ;P.

[Weisseteufel]

Dictamnus Albus-- What you appears to be your issue is how your belief that beauty is inherent to femininity conflicts with the idea of female-to-male crossplaying, which isn't so much a sexist (at least to me) mentality but a rather rigid one. I take from your posts that you don't consider males beautiful so you aren't bothered by male-to-female crossplaying, but you think females are beautiful by nature so they risk making themselves ugly by "masculinizing" themselves when crossplaying. The solution to this problem may be if you try to separate attractiveness from gender altogether.

If beauty is attributed to solely individualistic traits and not directly to a person's gender identity (or biological sex, for that matter) then female-to-male crossplay will be less troubling. While you're obviously more attracted to feminine qualities (and that's fine), do you think masculinity as a whole is ugly? Is it impossible in your eyes for anyone of any gender to look good when they take on masculine characteristics? You mention other ways besides crossplay in which you think women intentionally make themselves ugly, but what's to keep things like facial piercings and ill-fitting clothes from having the same disfiguring effect on men? The connection you make between gender and appearances has caused you to create two sweeping and very restrictive generalizations: "females are always beautiful" and "males cannot be beautiful." This binary is what's skewing your perception of certain phenomena like crossplay. Separate beauty from gender and not according to gender, and an individual's attractiveness won't have to be affected by their gender expression at any given time. Now of course the question of whether or not said person looks good as that particular gender can still arise but at least there is no longer a need to fear that beauty will be automatically compromised in trying to achieve masculinity.

We can go even further and separate gender from identity (of either the cosplayer or the character they're portraying), but let's just stick with the topic of appearances for now. I know this wall of text may or may not persuade you into thinking any differently about crossplay but I at least want to say that as a non-male-who-cosplays-males myself I'm not offended by your posts and I think I understand your opinion.

[Access]

Originally Posted by Dictamnus Albus

someone tell me where i was ofensive, cause i really dont see it

I think it has to do more with the sense of entitlement, or trying impose on others for your own self-fulfillment. Either "I'm entitled to be surrounded by pretty women" and/or "If a woman is around me, she should make every effort to dress, act, and look pretty, because this pleases me."

You may not mean it, but it's something of a fine line. Preferences are preferences, and you can't really change those. Just know respect, I mean you are entitled to feel however you want, but when you make an assertion like "why wouldn't she want to be pretty", that's basically not accepting or respecting someone else's decision over something that is their own business.

In short just don't make it sound like you are imposing on others for your own fulfillment, or that you are entitled to others being / acting a certain way.

[Rurouni-Idoru]

As a lady who crossplays on occasion, let me just weigh in by saying that I am just as gorgeous when I crossplay as when I don't, and if someone wants to know why I would "want to do that to myself," then they clearly aren't aware of the level of satisfaction I get from both the number of people squealing over my costuming skills and the ability to look in the mirror and see someone completely different in every respect, including gender.

Dictamnus Albus, have you possibly considered that maybe there are women out there whose criteria when they get dressed in the morning (in cosplay or not) might not be "Does Dictamnus Albus think I am utilizing my beauty to its fullest given my means?" Or that, in fact, their ideas of maximizing their potential might be different from yours? Or that they have little to no interest in making themselves look pretty?

(also can we talk about the inherent implication that when a dude crossplays it's either a joke or a sign of some sort of mental illness or something? just sayin')

[Meriadoc]

Dictamnus Albus I think where you run into trouble is with statements like the below. Sometimes it helps if you reread what you typed before hitting submit. You say your words are being misconstrued, but they are also sending pretty clear messages about your opinions, which yes they are YOURS and yours alone. That said, you asked for points, so here are some things with your last post that probably rustled some jimmies.

Originally Posted by Dictamnus Albus

i made 2 statments
first, that i understand cosplay is diferant, its more an artfull expression than just dress up
and i didnt say its okay for men and not girls, its excentric either way
i only meant that i dont care whats guys do,
but for girls, i can appreciate the art and thier motives just the same
its just as a guy, i prefer not to see girls dressed up like a man cause it detracts from thier beauty, even if only temorary

You seem to be implying that you consider women who cosplaying more respectable and appreciable than women crossplaying. In any reader's mind, the opposite would be that female crossplay is not as "meaningful" or appreciable for its "art or the cosplayer's motives" because it detracts from the female beauty, "even if only temporary". Here readers might think, "Hey who is this bloke to tell me what I am doing is not as appreciable or meaningful just because I am not cosplaying a female character?"

From your statements, you sound like you are one of those people who "appreciates female beauty" and there is nothing wrong with that. However, your strict rules about beauty are not likely to be as popular.

Originally Posted by Dictamnus Albus

and second, im perfectly fine with the "tom-boy" look,
its just that when i see women that just seem to not care at all about how they look,
i die inside, cause it shows the corruptant nature of social influence

im not talking bout not styling thier hair, and wearing doilies
i mean, letting thier piercings rot in thier face,
dressing inapropriatly for thier body type... not cause they cant afford otherwise
or even cause their happy the way they dress,
some even blantently make themselves look like crap

i can look at a girl whom most would consider "less then moderatly atractive"
and see the ravishing drop-dead gorgeous vixen behind the veil

i just cant comprehend why anyone with the means, would purposly look like crap

What does this have to do with cosplaying and crossplaying exactly? Readers would likely latch on to the fact that not every cosplayer or crossplayer dresses poorly, has piercings, dresses inappropriately for her body type, or "blatantly makes themselves look like crap". Some people dress well under any circumstance and take pride in keeping up with immaculate hygiene etc.

Your words can also be seen as implying that crossplaying automatically means a female is looking like "crap on purpose" again, going back to your previous statements, because she is not playing up her female beauty to your standards [which you have not spelled out].

Some girls get really fancy and spiff up just for their crossplays. Lest you forget, there are plenty of bishounen and not just burly, bearded lumberjack types of characters. In fact some of these bishounen characters are more fabulous and extravagantly dressed than a number of female characters [think Kuroshitsuji and Trinity Blood-type crazy decadent fashion versus generic chick in chain mail bikini slogging through swamps in a generic video game]. That and there are some male characters that are best pulled off by females. Just some things to consider.

Originally Posted by Dictamnus Albus

but back to cosplay...
again im just fine with crossplay,excentric or not
i just think genderbent is more personal than crossplays or cosplays clone attempt,
but hey, what ever makes you happy makes me happy

someone tell me where i was ofensive, cause i really dont see it, and if you find its the last sentence of my first post, then you compleatly missed the context,
which means, perhaps you are of lesser empathy and moral standing than you would like others to believe

Finally, where people will probably call you out most is that you are putting your interpretation on what is more personal is kind of "offensive" to others. People are in this hobby for many reasons, many of which are different from your own, which is completely okay. Different strokes for different folks. That said, no one wants to hear that their choice in cosplay is not meaningful or personal. It could easily be something very big for them.

Overall, I do not think you are a bad guy, I think you need a better way to get your thoughts out with careful wording. Your have every right to hold the beliefs that you do but realize that there is right and wrong way to express them and you have to watch yourself when doing that. As a female crossplayer/occasional cosplayer, I honestly could not care what you think about my costume choice. My characters tend to be fancier than how I dress for my office job so please consider that crossplaying is not the same as a female "letting herself go" or "ruining herself".

[Dictamnus Albus]

first i want to appologize for absconding with you thread PLP, i didnt intend for that to happen

Originally Posted by Weisseteufel

Dictamnus Albus-- What you appears to be your issue is how your belief that beauty is inherent to femininity conflicts with the idea of female-to-male crossplaying, which isn't so much a sexist (at least to me) mentality but a rather rigid one.
I take from your posts that you don't consider males beautiful so you aren't bothered by male-to-female crossplaying, but you think females are beautiful by nature
do you think masculinity as a whole is ugly?
Is it impossible in your eyes for anyone of any gender to look good when they take on masculine characteristics?
You mention other ways besides crossplay in which you think women intentionally make themselves ugly, but what's to keep things like facial piercings and ill-fitting clothes from having the same disfiguring effect on men?
.

this, point out the conflict best, i do view women as inherantly beautiful,
and thats where the question of sexism comes in, as it tends to look like
"whats good for the gander, is NOT good for the goose"

i can see a man as looking good, but not as "attractive to me"

as for the third paragraph ill get to that further down, as i can clear up others misconceptions with my explaination

quote, Acess
"I think it has to do more with the sense of entitlement, or trying impose on others for your own self-fulfillment.
Either "I'm entitled to be surrounded by pretty women" and/or "If a woman is around me, she should make every effort to dress, act, and look pretty, because this pleases me."

this points out snap judgement and lack of or not wanting to understand

it takes very little for me to see the beauty in and of all aspects in women
what i dont see is how ANYONE (but women especialy)
can let things like pericings, turning green/black, rashing/oozing, obviously not cleaning, or being sensitive to the metals, just slide
and
clothes, should make you feel comfy, happy, FEEL or look attractive in ones own mind
if your NOT happy dressing as you do, and have the means to change it
even if it takes the additional morale support of friends and family
why would you not choose to dress in a manner that make you feel good

any further misconcetions either stem from lack of insight, stubbornness
or snap judgment assumptions

but we've ruined the thread enough
as per the threads original intent,

there will always be detractors and griefers,
but if crossplaying gives you satisfaction, then by all means, you should
same goes for everything else... as long as its legal and/or moral

my original post was poorly written (clearly) and the rest, more to clear up and defend myself
but i only meant to point out the option of doing genderbent (and my preference tward it)