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[Fish-and-Chips-Yum]

Originally Posted by UsakoLuna

Hey Fish-and-chips - are you against gay couples having the same rights as straight couples as well? Or is it just the word "marriage"?

It's... well, it's a bit complicated for me to explain. Not the concept, but because I have to think about how to word it correctly. xD I don't mind homosexual couples using the term marriage-- it's just a word, and as I've said it's been a very ambiguous word throughout history. I don't even mind them having the same rights as heterosexual couples. For example, gay marriage is currently on the ballot in Washington state, I believe. If it were passed, I would not throw a hissy fit, or complain to all my friends. However, if I were to vote on that, I would vote no. Because of my firm religious beliefs, I could not in good conscience vote for "pro-homosexual" things. I've actually put a lot of thought into such a situation and would rather not vote at all on such a ballot. ^^; So, in short, I am "against" (I don't really like that word, it seems a bit strong) homosexuality, for lack of better wording. However, I don't let this interfere with how I interact with homosexuals or any member of the LGBT community, as stated in my initial post. What they do with their life is not my business, but I personally will not support it. I hope this has better clarified what my original post was saying. xD Again, I know that I have quite an unpopular opinion, but that's what it is-- and opinion.

[Lithium Flower]

I personally feel that there is an enormous danger in any society in which we vote based on religion.

[Fish-and-Chips-Yum]

Originally Posted by Lithium Flower

I personally feel that there is an enormous danger in any society in which we vote based on religion.

I see. That is an interesting point, and I can see why you would think that. By the way, I actually really appreciate these responses, despite them conflicting with my opinion. I really do like to see things from other perspectives, whether I end up agreeing with them or not.

[UsakoLuna]

Okay. I honestly don't understand how you can be "against" homosexuality and yet think that it doesn't influence your interactions with gay people, I do however appreciate that you tried to articulate your feelings.

I however don't believe that allowing same-sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples is "pro-homosexuality", its more "pro-equality" with a dash of "why the heck is this even an issue" since you know, gay people are just that - people - and shouldn't be denied anything solely based on who they fell in love in with.

I understand that somepeople believe that homosexuality is wrong based on their religious beliefs but I've never understood how anyone could believe someone is inherently "wrong" or "sinful".

[Fish-and-Chips-Yum]

Originally Posted by UsakoLuna

Okay. I honestly don't understand how you can be "against" homosexuality and yet think that it doesn't influence your interactions with gay people, I do however appreciate that you tried to articulate your feelings.

I however don't believe that allowing same-sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples is "pro-homosexuality", its more "pro-equality" with a dash of "why the heck is this even an issue" since you know, gay people are just that - people - and shouldn't be denied anything solely based on who they fell in love in with.

I understand that somepeople believe that homosexuality is wrong based on their religious beliefs but I've never understood how anyone could believe someone is inherently "wrong" or "sinful".

Well, I suppose my stance on homosexuality usually doesn't interfere with my interactions with people because I don't think my thoughts on someone's lifestyle (whether it be something they choose or can't help) should not come before treating them with the basic respect that they should have. In the end, we're all human, and although I'm not pro-homosexuality... I am pro-equality. ....the way that was worded sounds so contradictory, but I'll go on for lack of better wording. Anyways, I have a lot of friends that are bisexual and homosexual, though we get along just fine. All of my friends are aware of my stance on the subject, and we leave it at that. We don't try to change each other's minds or anything, so we move on. XD

Your second paragraph was very interesting to me. It's something I've thought of a lot, but not quite in the way you've stated it. I'm actually quite glad that I'm a couple years short of voting, because to me it really is a moral dilemma if I were to vote on the ballot allowing gay marriage. I feel like both options would be wrong for me to choose, as previously explained.

In the end, I haven't got it all figured out, that's for sure. I'm confident in my current stance on most things, though as I read about new information and hear other people's stories, it certainly does make me think.

[BlondieSundae]

Originally Posted by Lithium Flower

I personally feel that there is an enormous danger in any society in which we vote based on religion.

Seriously... the church should never have any rulings on anything the state does.... ever...

Just saying.

Or else we'd never be able to get haircuts and we'd look like hippies from Hair.

[Mr Zero]

I mentioned yesterday that my friend I have known since May might have been using me. After talking with some other people about it, I'm almost positive. Now Im sort of even more pissed off about it! Always contacting me only when she needs a ride to work or some other place! I consider myself a pretty nice and decent person, but some people take advantage of me! I'll probably cool down about it in the next few days finally...

[Shana05]

Okay, I went away for awhile so I can cool down. Fish-and-Chips, you did ask for my respect. You also said sexuality was a choice multiple times, so I have a hard time believing that you don't really think that.

You also compared someone having an issue with the fact you are against their rights to the discrimination and demonetization of homosexuals. Homosexuals are executed in some places, they often fear violence, they make up a disproportionate amount of homeless youth, people put them on the same level as pedophiles, it's somewhat common for men to rape lesbian women to "turn them straight," on top of all that people say they bring this on themselves. What did you experience? Someone was rude to you. That is in no way comparable to what we face and it's incredibly offensive to do so.

[Fish-and-Chips-Yum]

Originally Posted by Shana05

Okay, I went away for awhile so I can cool down. Fish-and-Chips, you did ask for my respect. You also said sexuality was a choice multiple times, so I have a hard time believing that you don't really think that.

You also compared someone having an issue with the fact you are against their rights to the discrimination and demonetization of homosexuals. Homosexuals are executed in some places, they often fear violence, they make up a disproportionate amount of homeless youth, people put them on the same level as pedophiles, it's somewhat common for men to rape lesbian women to "turn them straight," on top of all that people say they bring this on themselves. What did you experience? Someone was rude to you. That is in no way comparable to what we face and it's incredibly offensive to do so.

I am glad you took some time to cool down. XD I cannot reiterate this enough, but the last thing I want is some big ol' fight. Also, I already apologized for my wording, that was just the first way to put it that came to mind. I honestly don't think some of my friends choose to be gay, choose to be bi, choose to be trans, or what have you. It's not like a choose to be straight, right? That was just improper wording on my part that I already acknowledged.

First of all, you say all of those things as if they can only happen to homosexuals; although not for the same reason, such terrific acts are rampant among heterosexuals as well-- I would know. I'm not saying that discounts your points. It it TERRIBLE and horrific the way homosexuals are treated by some people. However, it seems to me that you're trying to justify homosexuals being incredibly rude to heterosexuals who don't do anything worth fighting about [people who aren't so outwardly blatant and badgering abotu their beliefs, people who treat homosexuals the same as the rest of their friends, so on]. I asked my friend very simply why she keeps picking arguments with me over such a tender topic if she knows we have conflicting opinions. Her response (copy and pasted, not just paraphrased): "Because you shouldn't be allowed to think that way!" I just find it a tad strange that while many respectable homosexuals rally and fight for equality against heterosexuals trying to smother how they think, she would turn around and say that I don't have the rigt to think certain things. Again, I wasn't comparing it to the acts people do to one another, rather the idea of verbally and ideologically demonizing something.

Now, I know not all homosexuals are like that, obviously. Again, one of my best cosplay friends is a lesbian, but we get along just fine because it never gets brought up. xD I mean, on a day-to-day basis her sexuality matters none in our friendship, just as she doesn't care that I'm heterosexual. I know you're still going to disagree, but that's totally okay. :3 I know you've likely found yourself highly offended by what I've said... and for that alone I'll apologize. I can't apologize for the words themselves because, save for poor wording in some places, I stand by what I believe in.

[Sybren117]

Fish-and-chips-yum :

I can tell you are trying not to offend, but there is a very important thing you need to remember here, and that is this: Sexuality is not a life choice. These people haven't decided to be gay, regardless of what mid 20th century 'christian-family-values' propaganda tried to convince you.

So it is, and always will be, UNBELIEVABLY offensive to say, no matter how discreetly or half-heartedly, that you are 'against' homosexuality.

It really is like saying you are 'against' black people, or Buddhists, or blonde haired people, or fat people, or ducks. It is close-minded and intolerant and it does no good for society. Even if you say, like you did, that you try to not get involved in voting over legislation relating to homosexuality, the fact that you have that opinion is still damaging.

The worst part has to be this though:

Originally Posted by Fish-and-Chips-Yum

So, in short, I am "against" (I don't really like that word, it seems a bit strong) homosexuality, for lack of better wording. However, I don't let this interfere with how I interact with homosexuals or any member of the LGBT community

This is basically saying that you would be nice to their face, but secretly hope that their very existence is banned. Please tell me you can see the offensive nature of this statement. Because that's it at the end of the day. These people are gay, and they cannot change that. Anti-homosexual legislation is laws that don't allow them to be them.

I'm not getting aggressive here or anything, as I'm sure you already realised discussing this topic and sharing your opinions here would not go down particularly well (this being a pretty liberal-minded forum), so kudos for at least bringing up the discussion.

Originally Posted by Lithium Flower

I personally feel that there is an enormous danger in any society in which we vote based on religion.

Yep, over here religion has practically no effect on political policies or agendas. We are seriously hardcore-secular over here. I mean, there are still bishops in the House of Lords and certain Easter/Christmas traditions are kept, but that's all pretty superficial. I remember a few years ago when Tony Blair mentioned his religious beliefs as part of his explanation for invading Iraq, and the whole country was like "...Did he really just say that?"

[BlondieSundae]

Originally Posted by Sybren117

Snippet of awesome.

[UsakoLuna]

Sybren - I love you

[Lithium Flower]

Okay guy's this is going pretty well all things considered.

Lets keep this going and maybe we can go have ice cream later and go see Wreck It Ralph.

[UsakoLuna]

Originally Posted by Lithium Flower

Okay guy's this is going pretty well all things considered.

Lets keep this going and maybe we can go have ice cream later and go see Wreck It Ralph.

I tried super hard to be civil! Can I have jimmies on my ice cream?

[Lithium Flower]

Originally Posted by UsakoLuna

I tried super hard to be civil! Can I have jimmies on my ice cream?

You did very well at not pistol whipping anybody, which is more then I could have done.

You get ALL the sprinkles. All of them in the world. A pool of sprinkles.