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Unread 12-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #1
SeriousTyro
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Anyone Tried Low Carb High Fat Diet?

The premise of this diet is when you take out all the carbs, i.e, sugar, bread, grain, your body becomes adapted to using the fat from your body more effectively.

I did P90X about two years ago, went from 226 down to 186 lbs.


P90X has a phase where you intake less carbs and interestingly enough, thats when I lost most of my weight.

Fastforward two years, I slowly regressed back to 200 lbs. During the summer 2012, I decided to get in shape so I started working out, weighting lifting and a bit of cardio. Ate "right", eating whole grains, drinking milk, fruits, veggies, white meat, no saturated fat.
3 months later, I only lost 3 lbs, sure it could have been mitigated by some muscle gain but my muscles don't grow that fast.

Getting frustrated I remembered about the low carb phase in P90X, and started researching about it. Stumbling upon Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb website and listened to a ton of his podcasts. Since starting low carb, I am down to 178 lbs and my ldl and cholesterol lvls improved and am satiated for longer periods of time.



I am not saying this THE diet and everyone should do this. I am merely presenting an option for people like myself who couldn't lose weight on the conventional "healthy" diet. If your diet is working for you, by all means stick with it. I'll be sticking with the Low Carb High Fat (LCHF) diet as it is working wonders for me.

My current goal is 170 but my dream goal is to get ripped so I'll look kickass in a Ryu costume .
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Unread 12-06-2012, 09:33 PM   #2
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The ketogenic diet was pretty helpful when I initially started dieting because it was much easier for me to control portion sizes by eliminating carbs.

Since then I've went back to a mixed diet and pretty much notice the same kind of results because all that mattered in the end was eating less. I tried to go back to keto after a while but found that I was over-eating nuts pretty crazy which caused me to stall.

I've more recently started intermittent fasting which has helped with hunger pangs since well, I'm used to fasting for 16-18 hours at a time now. Just sometimes it's hard to not binge after work, but that's more of a self-discipline thing than anything.
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Unread 12-07-2012, 12:25 AM   #3
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Awesome. I used to eat a great deal of peanuts cause they were such a convenient snack but I stopped as they were not really nuts and more from the legume family and I overate nuts like crazy haha.

I also do intermittent fasting, maybe once every 1~2 weeks for up to 16 hours. Being on low carb definitely makes it so your body doesn't get hungry and doing IF gives you a better control of your hunger.

Though I eat a ton when there's free food but of course I avoid the carby stuff. xD
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Unread 12-07-2012, 02:19 PM   #4
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Low-carb diets work in the sense that the body is producing less Insulin. With less insulin, the body isn't using the food consumed as energy, rather it's body fat. The reason that you go high-fat is that it doesn't cause an insulin response (protein and carbs do)

However, the downsides to keeping this regime in the long term is the lack of muscle glycogen that is used for the workouts. Simply put, the body cannot replenish it fast enough with fat alone. This is where the idea of nutrient cycling comes in where periodic refeeds of "normal" eating is done to replenish muscle glycogen.

One last thing, it's gonna be difficult to get "ripped" using P90x just because of the limitations that you can do using the equipment/program suggested (with respect to the time commitment). As much it helps you get in shape, eventually you may want to decide on learning the "big three" and its many fitness programs that revolve around it (Of course, the big three are the Squat, Bench Press, and Deadlift)
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Unread 12-07-2012, 03:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arti View Post
Low-carb diets work in the sense that the body is producing less Insulin. With less insulin, the body isn't using the food consumed as energy, rather it's body fat. The reason that you go high-fat is that it doesn't cause an insulin response (protein and carbs do)

However, the downsides to keeping this regime in the long term is the lack of muscle glycogen that is used for the workouts. Simply put, the body cannot replenish it fast enough with fat alone. This is where the idea of nutrient cycling comes in where periodic refeeds of "normal" eating is done to replenish muscle glycogen.

One last thing, it's gonna be difficult to get "ripped" using P90x just because of the limitations that you can do using the equipment/program suggested (with respect to the time commitment). As much it helps you get in shape, eventually you may want to decide on learning the "big three" and its many fitness programs that revolve around it (Of course, the big three are the Squat, Bench Press, and Deadlift)
Thanks for the info. I'll definitely check out the the big three. I hurt my tail bone a while ago so I haven't been able to do many lower exercises. I also plan on going long term with this and as you mentioned, I'll probably do nutrient cycling.
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Unread 12-12-2012, 06:11 AM   #6
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Yes I've had the same experience with this diet. Although in much smaller proportions..

But I added an extra something in this diet, this to prevent my body from gaining weight rapidly whenever it happens I would eat something with carbs again. So I decided that once a day in every 3-4 days I would eat a full fledged meal with carbs so my body would still be used to carbs. This was actually a tip from a trainer, who also set up diets for his customers.

One thing is: As a student I'm often rather broke so in that sort of situations I lose track of my diet because bread and pasta is often much cheaper dan fish/vegetables/meat etc.
But I do not switch carbs for "unhealthy high fat" food. Just delicious meat dishes and salads. Which has given me quite some trouble with exercising.. It sometimes happend that I got dizzy during training.
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Unread 12-12-2012, 06:25 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by indigobright View Post
Yes I've had the same experience with this diet. Although in much smaller proportions..

But I added an extra something in this diet, this to prevent my body from gaining weight rapidly whenever it happens I would eat something with carbs again. So I decided that once a day in every 3-4 days I would eat a full fledged meal with carbs so my body would still be used to carbs. This was actually a tip from a trainer, who also set up diets for his customers.

One thing is: As a student I'm often rather broke so in that sort of situations I lose track of my diet because bread and pasta is often much cheaper dan fish/vegetables/meat etc.
But I do not switch carbs for "unhealthy high fat" food. Just delicious meat dishes and salads. Which has given me quite some trouble with exercising.. It sometimes happend that I got dizzy during training.
Yea, if I were to eat carbs again I swear I would bloat up quickly. I haven't check it out but my med student friend/ body builder told me carbs carry more water weight.

You might want to listen to:
http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/s...0-peter-attia/

He talks about vitamins that you easily have a deficit of while on low carb so you get dizzy easier. He does intense training like four hour bike rides while on low carb and he doesn't get dizzy anymore.
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Unread 12-12-2012, 02:36 PM   #8
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I am not too much of a fan of the keto diet but it works well for a lot of people. In fact guys like Dave Palumbo of rxmuscle loves that diet and subscribes it to all his clients. Now he does tailor it to the needs of that specific person but the keto factors are always there.

If your getting dizzy it might be that your lacking certain nutrients that you would more commonly get from the carbs. Some of these can be supplemented with vitamins. It also depends on how heavy your lifting, if your going heavy you may be pushing yourself beyond your limit and taxing your nervous system. Now that is not overall a bad thing, that is where real growth and strength gains take place. Trust me when I get into really heavy squat or deadlift I have to sit down after. Especially squat!

Arti I agree fully, I am a fan of doing the Big 3. When you look at my work outs they tend to revolve around those. Everything else is pretty much an accessory based around the bench,dead or squat. I know several people who have done p90x but did not get the "beach body" they wanted. It did give them a decent base though to when they decided to pick up the 3 and get in a gym.

Serious, your progress is very cool and I am always glad to see someone transform themselves as you have. Keep up the good work!
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Unread 12-14-2012, 09:58 AM   #9
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Thanks!

As for the training, it is focused on slimming down. Not that it is really really neccessary so I've toned it down for now. But I'm also allergic to sugar and my iron level and blood pressure is low by nature, so I'm thinking of just doing healthy excercise like aikido instead of real training. Those aspects might all have been the cause for getting dizzy, also I've never felt dizzy during kitesurfing, horseriding or hockey.. Only when training. I'm not overweight so it should be okay. regarding the diet: I just need some more determination, I'm a food lover XD
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Unread 12-21-2012, 02:31 PM   #10
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I would not recommend this diet at all. It can be dangerous in the long run, and as soon as you go off the "diet", you'll likely gain all of the weight back. Your body's energy source of choice is carbohydrates, and low-card diets can be very dangerous even if they seem to reap results at first.

Dieting is a tricky thing, and there is no shortcuts to it. The best and safest way to lose weight is to just exercise and eat healthy (not one or the other, but both). I would not encourage this sort of diet to anyone.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 05:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish-and-Chips-Yum View Post
I would not recommend this diet at all. It can be dangerous in the long run, and as soon as you go off the "diet", you'll likely gain all of the weight back. Your body's energy source of choice is carbohydrates, and low-card diets can be very dangerous even if they seem to reap results at first.

Dieting is a tricky thing, and there is no shortcuts to it. The best and safest way to lose weight is to just exercise and eat healthy (not one or the other, but both). I would not encourage this sort of diet to anyone.
Hi Fish-and-Chips-Yum,
Mmm, fish and chips haven't had those for a while. Well getting onto my point, I am not trying to flame or anything, but I am wondering why you believe this diet is bad for you?

It is true that many old research articles show a "high fat diet" is fat bad but I feel that the papers may have missed a few things such as the amount of carbohydrates they considered to be low, maybe not letting the body adjust to a keto-adapted state, and maybe other stuff, not a doctor here.

There are many success stories of going on high fat low carb diet such as Jimmy Moore where he defines his health by not much weight he loss but by other statistics such as cholesterol level, LDL, and HDL. I am going to do the same. I have taken my blood count right when I started my low carb diet and my LDL, HDL, and cholesterol were good. I am going to see how it looks like after 6 months. If it's gotten worse then I'll be changing my diet.

From one of Jimmy Moore's podcast with Dr. Jeff Volek, though I might be getting it confused with some other doctor haha, Dr. Volek mentioned didncase studies of two groups of people going on different types of weight loss regiments. One low carb high fat and the other your typical "healthy" diet. Both were isocaloric so they ate the same amount. Both groups lost weight but the blood work of the low carb high fat group improved quite a bit. This is one of many stories that I hear in Moore's podcasts. I don't recall everything exactly but I say I got the gist of it.

Here is an article that I found from google by Dr. Volek,
http://www.nutritionexpress.com/arti...?articleid=906
We could probably spew articles back and forth at each other supporting our claim but I find this researcher to be credible.

Of course in the low carb high fat diet, you should be eating vegetables, just avoiding the carbs. If you think about it 10,000 years ago, people didn't have bread or grain. Though they died earlier, I don't think it was because of their diet.

I also agree with you on the initial weight loss/gain of low carb diets. One of my med student friends says carbohydrates are able to retain more water so when you go on low carb you lose water weight and going back to a conventional diet you gain all the water weight back. But after the initial water loss, fat is definitely burned.

I am also concerned about putting my body at risk so I'd be glad to see information on why it is dangerous.

Regards,
Tyro

Last edited by SeriousTyro : 12-21-2012 at 05:58 PM.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 06:57 PM   #12
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Thank you for the detailed response. I am not a doctor either, though my knowledge of dieting and nutrition comes from attending multiple fitness camps that involved nutrition classes, and the research I do on my own time. Below I'll give a quote from a nutrition expert and cancer-prevention specialist, Dr. Moshe Shike, M.D., on the subject of low-card high-fat/protein diets.

Quote:
"These "high-protein, low-carbohydrate" diets have not been proven to be safe or effective in the long run. We know, for example, that high-protein diets may be harmful to the kidneys, and are associated with calcium loss, which can result in bone problems.

Also, an extreme diet of any kind — say, one high in meats and whole-milk dairy products — may be harmful because high-fat diets have been associated with a number of chronic diseases, including cancer and heart disease. Also, when a whole class of foods is restricted, critical nutrients may be lacking from the diet.

In a fat-rich, low-carbohydrate diet, the body switches to a form of metabolism that produces ketones. The presence of ketones in the blood system causes the blood to become acidic. Persistent acidity can lead to nausea, muscle breakdown, headaches, irritability, kidney problems and weak bones. Another problem with the low-carbohydrate diets is that they may be deficient in essential nutrients such as calcium, potassium and various vitamins.

It's true that consuming high-protein or high-fat diets may initially induce weight loss in some people. But what has to be understood is that weight loss is based on calorie restriction — not on what is being consumed!

Fad diets prohibit a lot of foods — in the case of high-protein diets, carbohydrate intake is severely restricted. And guess what? People lose weight not because of the altered food balance, but simply because they are restricting calories. Of course they will lose weight!

Now, if you are going to restrict calories — which is vital to losing weight — isn't it better to restrict them in a way that is consistent with a healthy diet? Nobody needs excess protein and fat in their diets for the many health-related reasons we have already discussed.

Although the potential negative effects that I mentioned earlier may take some time to become apparent, it is important to understand that the long-term safety of these fad diets has not been established."
The following information was quoted from an article on Discovery Health.

So yes, the diet does work... but with a cost that may not be noticeable for many years.
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Unread 12-22-2012, 06:55 AM   #13
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I heard about this kind of eating 1 year ago and I lost 10 kgs. with it for 8 months. I have a friend of mine that is eating that way from 10 years and is teaching his clients this way of eating too (he have a sport studio). I think that this isn't just a diet, but a way of living. Just look at his body in the years:
http://spidersport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39
Actually the most important thing is to understand the way our body is working, and that is obviously logical and is written in all the school books for the human body. We need small ammounts of sugar for our brain that our body can produce from the fat and proteins. The fats (here we must tell that we're talking about animal fat!!) are the normal source of energy for our body, not the sugar. There are a lot of things that the people don't know... for example the when you eat proteins must combine them with fat, if you don't do it the proteins will become sugar in the body... and more sugar - more acidic blood - more risk of heart attack. Actually the main cause for acidic blood is the sugar = carbohydrates.
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Unread 12-22-2012, 11:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Fish-and-Chips-Yum View Post
Thank you for the detailed response. I am not a doctor either, though my knowledge of dieting and nutrition comes from attending multiple fitness camps that involved nutrition classes, and the research I do on my own time. Below I'll give a quote from a nutrition expert and cancer-prevention specialist, Dr. Moshe Shike, M.D., on the subject of low-card high-fat/protein diets.



The following information was quoted from an article on Discovery Health.

So yes, the diet does work... but with a cost that may not be noticeable for many years.
I agree with you on the high protein low carb, large amounts of protein is not good, don't remember the exact details why but the podcasts would emphasize THIS IS NOT LOW CARB HIGH PROTEIN haha and explain why it is bad. However, I've been doing low carb high fat for a good 2 months now and I haven't had any of the drastic "side effects" except for being a bit dizzy. This was due to a lack of potassium/sodium in my body. In ketosis, the kidney dumps a great deal of sodium which causes the adrenal gland to secrete aldosterone to try and spare sodium. Aldosterone trades potassium for sodium so net effect is the body dumps a bunch both potassium and sodium. I can easily supplement this by eating avocados and adding a bit more salt to my food. As of doing this I haven't gotten dizzy.

With regards to restricting calories, I've tried eating the same amount, as I used to with eating carbs, for about two weeks to test this on myself, no working out, just biking on campus, eating upwards of 2000 calories plus. I would feel extremely bloated after each meal but I still lost weight. Then I switched to smaller meals because fat is so satiating. I do agree that calorie restriction will induce weight loss but it ultimately depends on how easy it is for the person. Does the person have extreme hunger or is he completely satisfied? If I were to compare two calorie restricted people, one following the food pyramid and the other one on LCHF(low carb high fat), I would bet the LCHF person would be fine. The body becomes adapted to using the energy from body fat so the body doesn't need to send signals to the brain to say "I'm hungry, FEED me!"

In terms of long term, I know this is only one guy but I only know Jimmy Moore whose been doing it for 7+ years and he is perfectly fine. In my opinion it is really hard to get a study like this done because of funding issues and doctors getting ostracized. Dr.Atkins was extremely ostracized for his unconventional diet. But I don't keep track of all the research going on, hopefully for all I know there is one going on for long term effects of LCHF.

Last edited by SeriousTyro : 12-22-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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Unread 12-22-2012, 11:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliks View Post
I heard about this kind of eating 1 year ago and I lost 10 kgs. with it for 8 months. I have a friend of mine that is eating that way from 10 years and is teaching his clients this way of eating too (he have a sport studio). I think that this isn't just a diet, but a way of living. Just look at his body in the years:
http://spidersport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39
Actually the most important thing is to understand the way our body is working, and that is obviously logical and is written in all the school books for the human body. We need small ammounts of sugar for our brain that our body can produce from the fat and proteins. The fats (here we must tell that we're talking about animal fat!!) are the normal source of energy for our body, not the sugar. There are a lot of things that the people don't know... for example the when you eat proteins must combine them with fat, if you don't do it the proteins will become sugar in the body... and more sugar - more acidic blood - more risk of heart attack. Actually the main cause for acidic blood is the sugar = carbohydrates.
I agree with you that LCHF is not simply a diet change but a way of living. I am trying to make this how I eat for the rest of my life so far 2 months haha. We'll see how long I keep it up for, once a while I'll indulge in carbs. My cousin just took me to eat sushi and I haven't had sushi for over 2 months o.O, I say I deserve a bit of rice with my fish xD.

Not sure if you've went to his website but you may want to check out Jimmy Moore as he has a TON of podcasts about this with doctors, dietitians, and other people involved in LCHF. When I started getting into this I would listen to him on the drive to and back from work.

http://thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/

Last edited by SeriousTyro : 12-22-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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