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Unread 04-01-2013, 02:56 AM   #31
Kelley
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I'm sorry, but "damaging publicity" is a bunch of crap.

While it might be an issue in our messed up world, it's an issue because the world is MESSED UP. Sure, it might be easier to try to smash yourself into conformity than to give the world the finger and do what you want anyway.

It's like saying that women need to "cover up" or else they're "asking for it" - it's a bunch of crap and that's not what needs to be "fixed". Showing a little ankle doesn't need to be a cause for a freak-out, we need to freak out over the system that says because of the ankle the rape is justified - because the perpetrators are animalistic with no self control when they see that flash of flesh.

We need to stop buying into this system and perpetuating it because we are afraid for ourselves that these people who are mentally decayed might think bad things about us, or people who happen to like things we like.

We shouldn't be worried about "bad press", but about trying to change our lives and harass and demean others so that they better fit into a "desirable" model that is put forth by a broken system. Nobody needs to be shamed for having the courage to make their own choices just so you don't have to fear someone MAYBE thinking you're a sexual deviant if literally all they know about cosplay comes from one news article or TV show.

It's like people saying that a gay man needs to be less effeminate just so that gay men get more respect. If that's who they truly are, screw you for saying they need to stop just so that you won't get teased by small-minded doodle-butts. The idea that being more "normal" - more "straight" more "heteronormative" confers respect IS the problem. Destroy that system, don't feed into it.

I like furries. Furries are freaking awesome. Making a fursuit is some serious-ass costuming and I have mad respect for that. I'm not going to call furries bad names just so that I can look better in comparison. Spreading the word about how furries are awesome is the answer, not saying, "no, no, we're not like them". You're always going to be "them" in some form or another your whole life unless you manage to become the most normal, most bland and averaged-out thing you can possibly be. Strive for that goal, live the dream - fit in.

Cosplay has been around for a long time. I really doubt one unflattering piece of media is going to make everyone and their grandma's uncle do a one-eighty unless those people were just in it for a bunch of flimsy and superficial reasons, anyway. There are already "bad publicity" articles about cosplay, about fans of Japanese media and et cetera.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 08:20 AM   #32
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Actually I think the OP should have said that the Tog is giving Cosplay Togs a bad name trust me I hear this atleast once a week about some Tog.

Also since all of you are bent on hell to make some sort of point I guess you all would say Cosplay BurLesque is giving Cosplayers a bad name alos never mind the simple fact when they perform at Conventions the line to get into see them are very long and large (Anyone who was at Otakon 2 years ago recall that the line took up most of the 4t Floor).

http://www.cosplayburlesque.com/index.html

I think some of you need to rethink this subject.

Oh and since Furries have been brought into the discussion I can't tell you how many times I have heard cosplayers say "Oh they aren't like Us" or "Yea they are Wierd never catch me doing that stuff" so maybe we(Cosplayers) need to clean up our own style before we start bitching about some moron of a Tog and let the Togs deal with these type of folks trust me us who charge for Cosplay Shoots do deal with this morons.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 08:35 AM   #33
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You don't seem to listen to anything anyone says.
Haven't seen good ol' Scorpion around for some time. You'll find that that's his standard operating procedure.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 09:05 AM   #34
Scorpion89
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Originally Posted by sam vimes View Post
Haven't seen good ol' Scorpion around for some time. You'll find that that's his standard operating procedure.
So what is your take Sam you and I have been to plenty of Cons in our day and have seen this issue. Is it the Tog giving Cosplay Togs a bad name and do folks who complain about the so-called slut stuff of cosplay have the right to complain even though they say rather unflattering stuff about sub-sects of cosplaying (Furries).

Oh and the reason I haven' been around I spent 3 months in the Cardiac Wing pm and I'll tell you everything.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 09:30 AM   #35
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I don't feel like this is an issue? There's nothing fetish cosplayers can do that will cheapen the value of my own work, my own costumes, my own photos. You guys are all basing this on other people's perceptions of your costumes but really has someone else's perception ever really mattered that much.

If they're finding a way to degrade YOUR work, then that's because you let them. Yeah cosplay is often fetishized but pretty much all forms of costuming has a side of it that deals with this. I made my costumes for me. And it can't be made to mean any less to me unless I let it.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 10:05 AM   #36
RydiaValentine
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The point is:

What is the problem on calling that "sexy costuming"? That's what it is, it isn't cosplay and it isn't something new. Do he needs to fuck up the hobby to obtain money? Why can't he choose between a ton of themes to make photos of withouth labeling it "cosplay"? Why can't he use other names for it? Most cosplayers aren't professionals, just hobbyists. Mixing costuming hobbyists with professional strippers is not a good idea. It is not the same thing. The first ones are cosplayers who want to get fun dressing up for a few days in a year. The others obtain money to remove their clothes off daily and aren't cosplayers.

If he is just a regular photographer far away from the hobby or if he is used to work with regular models, it has no sense to me that he all of a sudden wants to force himself into cosplay while re-defining it to obtain money, with the possible consequence of cosplay disappearing as an independent thing and falling into the existing category of "sexy costume porn".

So one person wants to make money out of something that tons of people around the world have created decades ago for a totally diferent purpose. It does not sound legit to me. Does he want to obtain money through cosplay? Then take professional photos of actual cosplayers in exchange of a fee. Make discounts for groups. Work in Cosplay Deviants (the most similar thing to actual Japanese cosplayers selling their DVDs that there is in the Western world).

This is not like Japan, where normal cosplayers can do cosplay porn and sell it on DVD aside from the main cosplay hobby and aside from regular porn. Cosplay is cosplay, porn is porn, cosplay porn is another separate thing. Neither of the three things are mainstream, neither mixed. There's no intention of making such things happen.

This is about normal people bursting into the hobby with no idea about it and not even wanting to know about it, but do as they please to obtain money.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 12:07 PM   #37
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I know it probably won't happen, but the only thing I am afraid of is cosplaying getting the same rep as furries.
Back when I didn't know what furries were, I heard from a television show that furries were all sexual and did the "fetish" things.. That is basically the only part of the fandom that they talked about (or just all I remember).. And that was my interpretation of furries until I learned that they aren't all like that..
But I got to admit, when "furries" come to mind, I always think of furry hentai. It just has that rep.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 07:40 PM   #38
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I've been bitching about what I call the "sexification of cosplay" for some time now. Girls are wearing "costumes" that are no costumes that are unnecessarily revealing...you see it al ot in genderbending and it pisses me off. Some examples:



That is not Thor. Period. Thats you trying to look sexy and doing a bad job at genderbending.

And this...WTF is this?

I think it's stuff like this that's giving cosplay a bad name. And some girls (Im sure theres guys like this too) Will wear a sexy costume and no NOTHING about it's fandom. Example: At a star wars convention, a girl was dressed as slave leia. It was during their gathering and someone said "Hey lets go get our pictures by the giant rancor. This girls response: "What's a rancor?" ...stfu you fail go away. ugh...
/end rant
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Unread 04-01-2013, 08:31 PM   #39
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I'm not 100% with you on this actually.
People get into hobbies for different reasons. Some people do cosplay to learn a skill, for love of the character, to have fun, or even just to enjoy being a model.

While it may not be your reason for cosplay, I think that any reason is as valid as another. It's almost like saying "oh you just got into star wars because the actor that plays new Spock is hot? You're not a REAL fan." I think it comes down to another form of 'fake geek girl' profiling.

As far as a cosplay themed sexy magazine, it's a business. If he can do it without getting sued for copyright infringement, whatever. Just because I have boobs doesn't mean I'm in playboy= Just because I cosplay doesn't mean I'm a stripper.

But also find it incredibly insulting if you start throwing around 'slut' so maybe try to actually respect people's decisions about their own bodies and not act like them making those decisions makes them less human. Sex workers are people using their personal assets to make money to survive on. If paying rent means striking a pose in an outfit they may or may not understand, I don't think it's anyone's right to judge them.
If someone wants to wear a sexy costume because they're comfortable in their own skin, you can back off and look at someone else's costume. Ignore them, seriously. If they're doing it for attention then it'll probably stop. If they're doing it because they want to and feel comfortable that way, then they don't need your approval anyway.

The same applies for men who wear shirtless or revealing costumes. I haven't seen them judged for it, but I'm sure someone has.


This whole thread reeks of slut shaming, I'm disappointed in this community. You'll all run screaming to the aid of someone getting called 'too fat' or 'too black' or 'too pale' but God forbid you defend the people who are 'too slutty' and actually also deserve not to be demonized and insulted.
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Unread 04-01-2013, 09:55 PM   #40
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They clearly want to look sexy, so what ? What's wrong with that ?

Is that any more weird or wrong than wanting to look exactly like a bunch of pixels ?

See, Thor from The Avengers has a pretty big fan-base of girls who think he's SEXY. Maybe they want to cosplay Thor and show their fangirl love for Thor and sexiness in general but don't feel his costume as-is would be as sexy on them as they think it is on the actor. So they make it their own flavour of sexy that fits them. So what ? Yes, some people might find a more covered-up version sexy too or even more sexy - but they're not the one wearing it so they can do whatever they want on their own time.

And so what the girl didn't know what a Rancor was ? Maybe she just saw the movie once or twice and liked the costume. Maybe she just likes it because she thinks it's sexy and doesn't give two craps about Star Wars at all - so what ? My mom owns an Adventure Time shirt because she thought it was cute even though she has no idea what the show is, and while we make fun of her for it there's nothing wrong with doing that. She thought it was cute why can't she enjoy it just because she doesn't know the "lore" ? Is there some lore test we need to pass to be REAL FANS and have the right to wear a costume ? Not everyone takes cosplay seriously - for some it's the same mentality as Halloween and that's OKAY. Why are people so judgemental about how people are allowed to have fun ? You are having fun wrong !

Plenty of people cosplay non-sexy costumes where they don't know the series and it's generally considered fine by people who aren't anal-retentive about who is allowed to like a certain thing - sometimes people pick a costume because they liked the design or the challenge of making it or because their friend wanted them to or whatever. Just buying a costume isn't wrong, either. Not everyone sews or wants to - as long as they don't try to claim they did and win a costume contest based on a falsehood, so what ?

The two girls that you posted, I don't see anything wrong with them or their costumes. I've seen other girls do "sexy female Thor" costumes and while it doesn't make it more legitimate than buying, a lot of them are making these costumes themselves. It's what they want to do and they're having fun. Avengers, especially has a huge female fandom behind it and these girls are doing what THEY want. So what if it's not how YOU would express yourself ?

I can tell the Sexy Link girl put thought into her costume. Everything she's wearing has a game counterpart. Yeah, there are bad "sexy costumes" just like there are bad not-sexy costumes, but I don't think these even fall in that category. If someone likes Legend of Zelda and looking sexy, WHY NOT COMBINE THE TWO. It's like those taco commercials which should teach us an important life lesson - if you like two things POR QUE NO LOS DOS ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emmisu View Post
This whole thread reeks of slut shaming, I'm disappointed in this community. You'll all run screaming to the aid of someone getting called 'too fat' or 'too black' or 'too pale' but God forbid you defend the people who are 'too slutty' and actually also deserve not to be demonized and insulted.
I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH GIRLS BEING SEXY IN A WAY THAT I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BE SEXY LET'S CONTROL HOW WOMEN GET TO BE SEXY OKAY GREAT THANKS I CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT NOW WITHOUT HAVING MY FANTASIES DESTROYED BECAUSE SOME GIRL DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE WATER TEMPLE IS BECAUSE I CAN'T GET OFF IF SHE DOESN'T HATE IT TOO BYE
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Unread 04-02-2013, 12:35 AM   #41
Misseeriechan
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The OP is not talking about slatterns at con, but strippers placed in NON-accurate, sexed up versions for the purpose of selling skin and calling it cosplay. I support "call it cosporn"
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Unread 04-02-2013, 12:53 AM   #42
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^ This.

Before that one post, no one said anything about actual cosplayers in skimpy costumes doing anything wrong.

I doubt that it will happen, but I still think not wanting to be unfairly judged is a legit concern.
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Unread 04-02-2013, 01:47 AM   #43
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Yeah, there's a difference between cosplaying a character meant to be sexy, and a stripper wearing a sexed up version of a costume she knows nothing about, just because somebody paid her, and is calling the result "cosplay".

I admit, I'm not a fan of the sexy female genderbends, but that's because I think the costumes don't really fit the personalities of the characters- Thor wore sensible armor, as opposed to running around bare chested. And Link's tunics looked like practical clothing. Surely there's a way to make those costumes more flattering to the female form, without defaulting to "make it skimpy". But that's a design thing, not a comment on the morals or genuine fannishness of the ladies in those outfits.
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Unread 04-02-2013, 02:05 AM   #44
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I'm sorry, but "damaging publicity" is a bunch of crap.

While it might be an issue in our messed up world, it's an issue because the world is MESSED UP. Sure, it might be easier to try to smash yourself into conformity than to give the world the finger and do what you want anyway.

It's like saying that women need to "cover up" or else they're "asking for it" - it's a bunch of crap and that's not what needs to be "fixed". Showing a little ankle doesn't need to be a cause for a freak-out, we need to freak out over the system that says because of the ankle the rape is justified - because the perpetrators are animalistic with no self control when they see that flash of flesh.

We need to stop buying into this system and perpetuating it because we are afraid for ourselves that these people who are mentally decayed might think bad things about us, or people who happen to like things we like.

We shouldn't be worried about "bad press", but about trying to change our lives and harass and demean others so that they better fit into a "desirable" model that is put forth by a broken system. Nobody needs to be shamed for having the courage to make their own choices just so you don't have to fear someone MAYBE thinking you're a sexual deviant if literally all they know about cosplay comes from one news article or TV show.

It's like people saying that a gay man needs to be less effeminate just so that gay men get more respect. If that's who they truly are, screw you for saying they need to stop just so that you won't get teased by small-minded doodle-butts. The idea that being more "normal" - more "straight" more "heteronormative" confers respect IS the problem. Destroy that system, don't feed into it.

I like furries. Furries are freaking awesome. Making a fursuit is some serious-ass costuming and I have mad respect for that. I'm not going to call furries bad names just so that I can look better in comparison. Spreading the word about how furries are awesome is the answer, not saying, "no, no, we're not like them". You're always going to be "them" in some form or another your whole life unless you manage to become the most normal, most bland and averaged-out thing you can possibly be. Strive for that goal, live the dream - fit in.

Cosplay has been around for a long time. I really doubt one unflattering piece of media is going to make everyone and their grandma's uncle do a one-eighty unless those people were just in it for a bunch of flimsy and superficial reasons, anyway. There are already "bad publicity" articles about cosplay, about fans of Japanese media and et cetera.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelley View Post
They clearly want to look sexy, so what ? What's wrong with that ?

Is that any more weird or wrong than wanting to look exactly like a bunch of pixels ?

See, Thor from The Avengers has a pretty big fan-base of girls who think he's SEXY. Maybe they want to cosplay Thor and show their fangirl love for Thor and sexiness in general but don't feel his costume as-is would be as sexy on them as they think it is on the actor. So they make it their own flavour of sexy that fits them. So what ? Yes, some people might find a more covered-up version sexy too or even more sexy - but they're not the one wearing it so they can do whatever they want on their own time.

And so what the girl didn't know what a Rancor was ? Maybe she just saw the movie once or twice and liked the costume. Maybe she just likes it because she thinks it's sexy and doesn't give two craps about Star Wars at all - so what ? My mom owns an Adventure Time shirt because she thought it was cute even though she has no idea what the show is, and while we make fun of her for it there's nothing wrong with doing that. She thought it was cute why can't she enjoy it just because she doesn't know the "lore" ? Is there some lore test we need to pass to be REAL FANS and have the right to wear a costume ? Not everyone takes cosplay seriously - for some it's the same mentality as Halloween and that's OKAY. Why are people so judgemental about how people are allowed to have fun ? You are having fun wrong !

Plenty of people cosplay non-sexy costumes where they don't know the series and it's generally considered fine by people who aren't anal-retentive about who is allowed to like a certain thing - sometimes people pick a costume because they liked the design or the challenge of making it or because their friend wanted them to or whatever. Just buying a costume isn't wrong, either. Not everyone sews or wants to - as long as they don't try to claim they did and win a costume contest based on a falsehood, so what ?

The two girls that you posted, I don't see anything wrong with them or their costumes. I've seen other girls do "sexy female Thor" costumes and while it doesn't make it more legitimate than buying, a lot of them are making these costumes themselves. It's what they want to do and they're having fun. Avengers, especially has a huge female fandom behind it and these girls are doing what THEY want. So what if it's not how YOU would express yourself ?

I can tell the Sexy Link girl put thought into her costume. Everything she's wearing has a game counterpart. Yeah, there are bad "sexy costumes" just like there are bad not-sexy costumes, but I don't think these even fall in that category. If someone likes Legend of Zelda and looking sexy, WHY NOT COMBINE THE TWO. It's like those taco commercials which should teach us an important life lesson - if you like two things POR QUE NO LOS DOS ?



I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH GIRLS BEING SEXY IN A WAY THAT I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BE SEXY LET'S CONTROL HOW WOMEN GET TO BE SEXY OKAY GREAT THANKS I CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT NOW WITHOUT HAVING MY FANTASIES DESTROYED BECAUSE SOME GIRL DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE WATER TEMPLE IS BECAUSE I CAN'T GET OFF IF SHE DOESN'T HATE IT TOO BYE


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanita View Post
I admit, I'm not a fan of the sexy female genderbends, but that's because I think the costumes don't really fit the personalities of the characters- Thor wore sensible armor, as opposed to running around bare chested. And Link's tunics looked like practical clothing. Surely there's a way to make those costumes more flattering to the female form, without defaulting to "make it skimpy". But that's a design thing, not a comment on the morals or genuine fannishness of the ladies in those outfits.
Now this is the way to criticize sexy cosplays. Explaining why you dislike the design rather than personally attacking the person wearing it.
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Unread 04-02-2013, 03:51 AM   #45
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Since everyone got sidetracked on altered and/or gender-bent barely-dressed con cosplays there is an easy solution, I use it all the time.

If it bothers you; Avoid people who sacrifice design for skin. Don't look at them, don't talk to them, and don't bother arguing with them. Keeeeeep on walking... or scrolling. Whichever (much like trolls they win if you give them even a second of your time)

It won't make a difference of course, but it's not worth your time or energy anyways.

My issue: Saw an Ironwoman that the upper armor suit ended like a high cut bathing suit around the hips area and she had knee high armor boots... ... ... ... ... So... just planning to get those bare legs ripped off femTony? start nerd rant The suit is what protects his body, that's why it's called an exoskeleton! Without it he'd get broken to bits, it is a full suit for a reason!!!! GRRRRRRR! How could she survive a hail of bullets armored like that?!?!?!?!?!end nerd rant
The lack of logic makes my head hurt and the nerd inside me cry.


I know some (>_>) on here seem a bit preachy about defending said ideas. But remember; it's a free country and you can dislike someone for whatever reasons you want. Since when did do you have to like what anyone else likes? Where does it say you can't disapprove of others? Haters gonna hate. No really. People are always going to dislike something; if you're a jerk or not depends on what you do with your disdain. I roll my eyes silently and bottle it up for later use when I wanna practice my batting swing. I throw my middle finger in the air and yell "I don't have to support your lack of decency in the tiniest bit, mofo." And that's my right too People bicker this slut-shaming stuff to the end of the world with still nothing to show for it (do realize some of them are obvious trolls). Bottom line, no one HAS to like or defend anyone or thing they don't want to nor will any amount of moralist-bashing change peoples opine. I disapprove of other humans on a daily basis on a variety of issues and shall continue to... In a peaceable manner, of course.


Now can people get back to the OP's topic at hand?

Last edited by Misseeriechan : 04-02-2013 at 03:56 AM.
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