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Unread 02-19-2013, 09:42 PM   #20056
magnum-desu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak-kun View Post
It's actually people like you that make me have this argument.
I'm sorry that when my genes were assigned (which I had no control over) I wasn't given any artistic or crafty genes. I'm sorry that my job and school ties up much of my time, so even if I did have a crafty gene, I wouldn't have the time to put it to use.
See, I find this rude. No one is born with an innate knowledge of sewing/crafting. Those of us who can have built those skills. Unless you have some kind of condition making your hands completely useless, you can develop those skills. My hands shake constantly. I can't draw anything even closely resembling a straight line. I can still make costumes without much hassle (unless, of course, it's some crazy OTT design). Saying "LOL IT'S JUST A CRAFTY GENE" dismisses the time and effort others have put into building skills, which is disrespectful.
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Unread 02-19-2013, 10:22 PM   #20057
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^Yeah, pretty much that. I find that I tend to pick up different crafting disciplines easily, but it takes work to get good at them. My first sewing projects kinda sucked, but I was able to look at those pieces and figure out how to do better next time, how to improve. I may actually possess a "crafty" gene, but it doesn't replace work and practice.
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Unread 02-19-2013, 10:27 PM   #20058
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Originally Posted by Shana05 View Post
Crap! I just missed a Simplicity pattern sale at Joann. I have several patterns I need to buy from them. Now, I have to wait for the next sale. Since I currently don't have classes on Mondays, I completely forgot it was President's Day.
I didn't need simplicity, but I just missed a sale at Joanns for something I desperately needed. It was half off on button things, and I needed an eyelet/grommet tool for a corset/dress I'm going to be working on. HALF OFF.

FML. Better find a coupon.
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Unread 02-19-2013, 10:36 PM   #20059
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I had no idea this would go on for so long. Kind of surprised.

Also, peeve: I found a perfect pair of pants in the depths of my closet that could be altered to be Sheik's pants-stuff, but I don't want to not be able to wear it anymore. I want two of those pants. One for me and one for Sheik. Needy bastard ninja-thing.
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Unread 02-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #20060
Unaki
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Immature homestuckers. URGH! Stop ruining my convention experience!

Also, Hetalia flag-draggers....UUUUUURRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH! You don't need that massive flag. Get a more portable one.
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Unread 02-20-2013, 12:19 AM   #20061
jukebox
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@ Unaki - Not to mention how phenomenally disrespectful it is to carry a flag around and not do it properly. :/

Also, as for the respect argument in terms of buying vs. making costumes: what on EARTH is a "crafty gene"? Seriously. I would love to see you say that to a student or expert in the field of biology and genetics and see how long they keep a straight face for. Sure, some people are more inclined to creativity in their genetic coding, but that bit of DNA is meaningless if the skill and interest are not also nurtured and developed by practice.

Cosplay is a pretty damned privileged hobby, so it does take a considerable financial investment to keep up with it, so I'm not entirely sure I buy the school of thought that someone whom buys or commissions might not have the means or opportunity to make their own stuff.

Some of the costumes I wear and make involve very little sewing from me. Some were things that I bought pre-made and modified, and some of my costumes were things I "designed" or visualized and ended up buying the necessary pieces in different times and places. I'm not going to take credit for other people's work, and if someone who's done more work than I have comes into the room, you bet your foot that I'll step aside and let them have their moment.

That, and if you have to compare yourself to others to illustrate a (false) notion of why you deserve the same level of recognition as someone who has objectively done more work than you, you're honestly going to sound miserable. Just be happy with how you look and don't walk into the room feeling more entitled to things than you actually are.
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Unread 02-20-2013, 03:21 AM   #20062
EXEC_HYMME_MACARON
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..Well honestly, the phrase "respect" is rather vague in and of itself. Just what does respect as a cosplayer mean? In my opinion, comparing a person who sews their costumes to someone who commissions them is comparing apples and oranges.

As someone who commissions cosplays, do I deserve the same sort of recognition as someone who spent weeks, months, or possibly more on working and hand making their costume? Of course not.. Hopefully the only thing I'll get recognition for is looking good! (hah hah...just kidding, kinda) Does a person who spends endless hours in front of a sewing machine deserve praise and recognition for their hard work? Hell yes. They've EARNED it.

As someone who commisions cosplays, I'm perfectly happy with people saying I make a great insert character here, and asking for my picture. So what does respect mean to me?

It means not being insulted, it means not being told that I'm not a "real" cosplayer, it means people not scoffing or walking away in disdain when I mention that I got my costume from so and so. And that's all I ask for. You made your costume, I bought mine. You're an apple, I'm an orange. We're different, but we're both fruits. GLORIOUSLY NERDY FRUITS GALLIVANTING AROUND A HOTEL OR SUCH FOR 3 OR SO DAYS.


As far as the whole "crafty gene" thing goes. I think it's a matter of some people just get discouraged more easily than others. We're told that "Practice makes perfect!" "Anyone can do it!" "I learned by myself just messing around!" etc. However it's hard to focus on ourselves. Some people have a habit of always zeroing in on and comparing themselves to the person who "learns more quickly" or "catches on easier". It's like crying in frustration because after weeks of practice you still can't thread a sewing machine, or figure out patterns and your fellow cosplayer is already making a wedding dress. Okay, so wedding dress is an exaggeration, but you get the idea.

I once told someone that I found sewing to be hard and frustrating, and thus for my own sanity would rather avoid it. I get discouraged easily, I'm hard on myself, and I, despite being a full grown woman, have a tendency to break down in tears and curse myself over every mistake I make. Do I still have moments where I go "learning to sew might be fun!" of course. Do I believe that there's some sewing gene that I'm lacking and thus I could spend a life time trying and never even thread a needle? Of course not. However I -do- know how easily frustrated I get. I do know that I would most likely call myself stupid because I'm not catching on quickly enough. I do know that I would get worried about whether or not my instructor thought I was too slow, or being annoying for not getting something. But that's general fear and anxiety, not belief that I lack some crafty gene..! Or that I haven't been blessed by the sewing fairies.

...Damn fairies.
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Unread 02-20-2013, 06:44 AM   #20063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elycium View Post
When someone wants to commission from you, but won't make the effort to get in touch with you. I am a busy person, especially when it comes to sewing. Expecting -me- to chase -you- down is ridiculous. I do not need to make you anything. I'm not going to beg you to know what it is you want me to make. If you want it, put in the effort to get in contact with me.
I just file away their information and keep it around for up to a year, depending on where we are in the process. It's just a few bits of data on my hard drive. If they can't be bothered to contact me after the time has passed, I just delete the information and move on with my life. No need in obsessing over someone that's probably not serious about commissioning you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jukebox View Post
That, and if you have to compare yourself to others to illustrate a (false) notion of why you deserve the same level of recognition as someone who has objectively done more work than you, you're honestly going to sound miserable. Just be happy with how you look and don't walk into the room feeling more entitled to things than you actually are.
I think this is the crux of the problem right here: We are confusing "recognition" with "respect". I believe that buyers are "respected" just as much as makers. But makers are usually recognized more than buyers, and deservedly so. While anyone can save up $500 and buy an awesome costume, the ones that make their costumes have to do that and still put in hours of labor to make it. So those that make their cosplays often get recognized more than those that buy them.

Make sense?
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Unread 02-20-2013, 10:40 AM   #20064
Unaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jukebox View Post
Also, as for the respect argument in terms of buying vs. making costumes: what on EARTH is a "crafty gene"? Seriously. I would love to see you say that to a student or expert in the field of biology and genetics and see how long they keep a straight face for. Sure, some people are more inclined to creativity in their genetic coding, but that bit of DNA is meaningless if the skill and interest are not also nurtured and developed by practice.
The crafty gene refers to someone's creativity. Sure you do very little sewing because you can see ways to modify something to fit into a costume but not everyone can do that. Not everyone can take a pile of LEGOs and make an epic starship but some people can. Cosplayers deserve the same respect no matter how their costume was obtained. Sure the ones that made their own costumes get better recognition but honestly it sounds like you hate people who buy costumes. So what if they buy a costume? If they look good in it why does it matter? They worked for the money they spent on the costume.

Outside of my Date and Black Star costumes I commission some because I personally don't have the time or patience to make a ton of fabric costumes. I am going to be commissioning a Marth costume from the new Fire Emblem game because I am already working on Alphonse Elric and Dukemon (Non-Fabric, all armor).
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Unread 02-20-2013, 11:23 AM   #20065
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I feel like I've walked into a warzone here but I'll throw in what I have to say and hope I can phrase it properly.

Sewing, as with everything, is something that some people will find easier to grasp than others. That doesn't mean it doesn't take work for those people to learn how to do but this is fact. Just like how some people are better at math or learning languages than other people.
However, here is no "craft gene" or magic talent granting trait given to you at birth that allows you to be able to sew well instantly.

People who make their own cosplay deserve more praise for all of the hard work they put into it, of course. This doesn't mean that people who buy cosplays (and hey, I'm one of those people sometimes! Infact, most of the time I buy my cosplay too since I don't always have the skill to pull it off without it looking awful nor the time, resources or money to throw at experimenting so it DOESNT look awful when I do it) deserve to be treated as lesser beings or scoffed at, just that they shouldn't expect the same level of praise.

Of course, there are praise that people who buy their cosplays can recieve too, it's not entirely simple. You made a nice choice on which costume to buy instead of buying the cheapest rubbish Ebay trash you could? That's great! You picked out a really nice accurate pair of shoes to go with it? That's awesome! You worked on making your make-up just right to fit the character? Wonderful! You spent ages looking through wigs to find the most accurate colour and style? Props to you!
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Unread 02-20-2013, 11:58 AM   #20066
Quina
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Originally Posted by Vanilla_Rose16 View Post
I think people need to take in the fact that just because someone bought their costume DOES NOT mean that they didn't put in additional effort. Think about all the time some people might spend on their makeup. Think of all the people that have lost weight just so they can feel a bit more confident at the convention they are going to. Sometimes just earning money so you can buy the costume takes a lot of work too.
Your post implies that those of us who make our own stuff don't do everything you mentioned AND make our stuff from scratch. Believe me, we certainly do.
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Unread 02-20-2013, 12:10 PM   #20067
Deophest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unaki View Post
The crafty gene refers to someone's creativity. Sure you do very little sewing because you can see ways to modify something to fit into a costume but not everyone can do that. Not everyone can take a pile of LEGOs and make an epic starship but some people can. Cosplayers deserve the same respect no matter how their costume was obtained. Sure the ones that made their own costumes get better recognition but honestly it sounds like you hate people who buy costumes. So what if they buy a costume? If they look good in it why does it matter? They worked for the money they spent on the costume.

Outside of my Date and Black Star costumes I commission some because I personally don't have the time or patience to make a ton of fabric costumes. I am going to be commissioning a Marth costume from the new Fire Emblem game because I am already working on Alphonse Elric and Dukemon (Non-Fabric, all armor).
The thing is, that implies that people are born with some sort innate talent to do certain specific things, and this is false. Anyone can take a pile of lego and make an epic starship if they really wanted too. Some people might have an easier time doing it based on past experience and level of interest but anybody can LEARN to assemble a lego starship. The same way you could learn to drive a car, you could learn to be good at math or learn to be great in the kitchen.

It's the same thing with costumes. If you don't have the time/patience to learn how to sew and make props that is your choice. It is not your natural limitation or inability, it is the choice you are making to not learn because it doesn't suit your benefit.

If you make that choice and it makes you happy, nobody is going to hate your for it or treat you like you're a "bad" cosplayer or have any less respect for you as human being. But they aren't going to respect you for your craftsmanship as you didn't really craft anything of your own accord. The same way you worked for the money to buy your costume, wigs and props, someone else might've worked for the money to build a costume they couldn't buy, spent the lengthy amount of time to learn and put the pieces together on their own. They went the extra mile to create something they could be proud of. It doesn't make you lazy, bad or inherently of less worth because you or anyone else bought your costume, it just means that they went above and beyond just having the cash to get the desired result.
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Unread 02-20-2013, 01:41 PM   #20068
Vanilla_Rose16
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Originally Posted by Sanda View Post
Your post implies that those of us who make our own stuff don't do everything you mentioned AND make our stuff from scratch. Believe me, we certainly do.
Trust me I understand what you are saying, and my post certainly doesn't imply that. All I am saying is that people who buy their cosplays sometimes also have to put it hard work and effort just as those who make their own cosplays do. I understand that people who make them from scratch go through a lot more, but all I am trying to say is that people who buy their own cosplays don't always have it easy. That's why I say that people who make their own cosplays deserve a ton of praise, but both deserve the same amount of respect.
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Unread 02-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #20069
PurpleDuckie
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I'm going to agree with ToroSonyCat here, since it seems respect for someone's skills is being misinterpreted as respect for someone's person - so perhaps "praise" is a much better word to throw around.

Someone who buys a costume and wears it to a convention as is doesn't get much praise for their efforts (or subbing back in, respect for their cosplaying skills) because they didn't do anything - they just bought clothes and wore them. They still have respect as a person (it doesn't minus respect) and they still get some praise for joining the hobby and they get the benefit of having a good time!

But then compare them to someone who bought their costume, but then made some minor alterations to be more accurate, styled a wig, did some kickass makeup, practiced posing, etc. This person put more effort into the overall project - even if they didn't have the skills to make the outfit. This person deserves more praise for their work because they did more and they used the skills they do have, and possibly learned some new skills or improved their skills in the process. The person who bought their costume and just wore it as is doesn't lose respect for what they have done, they don't lose any praise, they don't becomes less of a cosplayer - but this person who put in their own efforts does deserve more praise because they did more and they earned it.

Then you have someone who has a cosplay that took a year to make, and they hand-embroidered, and they stitched on tiny beads, they drafted their own pattern, they styled their own complex wig etc etc etc. That person deserves a ton of recognition/praise for their work, they might not get it but they do deserve it. It doesn't mean that your costume is any less awesome, it doesn't mean that you'll get less respect for your efforts!

I love my Porygon-Z cosplay, it's in my forum picture. My boyfriend made the sweater for himself and I stole it for Frostcon. I styled the wig, made the glasses, coordinated the leggings, and did the makeup but I wouldn't say that the costume deserves as much praise or respect (for the skill involved) as my other costumes - I did most of the work in one night, while the others took weeks or months to complete!

If you feel like you aren't getting the most out of your cosplays, I suggest working to improve! If you don't feel sewing is your thing, look into props, armor, wig styling, makeup, electronics/lighting, fursuits etc. There are so many different aspects to cosplay, and while they can require creativity (or at least creative solutions) it's also a lot of the left brain. There are measurements, analyzing and planning, and calculations - especially for props where being off by a millimeter or 1/32nd of an inch can really mess with how things fit together. Start small and work your way up, and if you find something you are good at or enjoy then keep at it - but also try things you aren't good at so you can get better at them. If you get stuck, the cosplay community is really helpful if you just ask!

As for the pet peeve topic: When you get in that slump where you are really demotivated to work on a project. I want to work on Luna's dress, but I can't bring myself to actually start sewing. I am hoping that when I finish the wig I will be more motivated to sew.
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Unread 02-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #20070
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Playing hide and go seek with supplies that you need at the moment -_-
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