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Unread 02-18-2005, 10:46 AM   #151
Miyabi-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyu
if you guys think that the pressure that the media places on women to be thin is bad HERE... then i suggest you never go to japan. :/ i picked up some "gal" magazines when i was there. you see ads in the back for "diet shakes" that are basically laxatives. someone like myself (33 in bust, 21 in waist, 32 in hips & 102 lbs) is considered ideal for most girls.. but the big pop stars like ayumi hamasaki and namie amuro are 85 - 86 lbs. last i checked, britney spears and beyonce knowles have never gone below 130-ish.

so seriously, stop singling-out american popculture and media. we definitely don't have the worst of it here. in 3rd-world countries it's cool to be big, as it's a symbol of wealth because it shows that you're well-fed... but in europe, japan, china, korea, south america (BIG-TIME there.. brazil in particular seems to be a breeding ground for beautiful people and supermodels), etc, it's looked down upon to be fat just as much.. if not MORE than it is in america because being overweight is less common in some of those places than it is in our country.
This is true but not many of us here are Japanese and/or live in Japan... and like Kokku said it doesn't make it excusable. Also don't forget that genetics-wise the Japanese in whole ARE smaller than Americans in height AND frame. I can't say the same is true for Europe and Brazil however. But the point that I was trying to make is that the importance of image is society driven.

Quote:
i've got absolutely no problem telling overweight people too get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable with how their body looks. i say this because during a short period of time in my life i got chubby from being too lazy, and i managed to lose is all almost as soon as i gained it. i just fixed my eating habits, quit smoking, and excersized regularly... and it went completely away within 3 months or so. i don't think there is ANY excuse for overweight or underweight people to feel unhappy with themselves when they can easily take the initiative to do something to change that. i don't like hearing people whine. at all.
Now that's just rude. You act like these people want to be overweight or are just lazy! Maybe it's easy for you to drop pounds but for some people obesity is genetic and it's actually very hard if not impossible without medical help. Keep in mind that you don't just wake up one day and decide to lose 20 pounds. It's actually a lengthy process that involves going to a doctor or nutritionist to design the best weight loss and exercise plan for your body type and lifestyle, perhaps even going to a support group to keep your moral up etc.etc.
I don't mean to single you out ( I'd quote Celebrimbor's posts but I think he's given up posting in this thread) but as for you having "no problem telling overweight people to get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable" I sincerely hope you do it in a nicer and more supportive manner than you demonstrated in your post. That's what all of us were originally trying to do in this thread...give support.
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Unread 02-18-2005, 11:05 AM   #152
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I think that for women (in particular) to feel like they have to be a certain weight - at all, in any country - is just buying into misogyny. Big corporations want you to do that. Hating yourself makes other people rich....markets can feed on that. Not to mention that it's male driven....I mean think about it....REALLY think about it....why do women beat themselves up sooooo much to look a certain way? Guys don't! It's patriarchal and misogynystic and all we're doing is objectifying ourselves and lessening our status by saying we're not good enough.
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Unread 02-18-2005, 11:52 AM   #153
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Like I mentioned before, the whole weight thing is an issue of control. It's not just weight, but age is another HUGE thing. Women are basically expected to look like young and tiny teenagers. Women aren't expected to be intelligent, self-sufficent, be and be independant both in actions and thoughts. Granted, today it's more acceptable for a woman to be that way. Yet still, you don't see many women scientists, cosmologists (a branch of science dealing with the workings of the universe, not makeup and hair!), mathmaticians, and other such careers. Most women still believe (usually not at all consiously) that they need to abide by their man, bear and raise children. You see so many women with great intelligence settiling for a job as a secretary or a nurse.

Granted, if a woman choses to go forward and do incredible things, then there really isn't a whole lot that can stop her because of women's rights and other things like that. It's considered sexisim. Yet society still drills this into our heads from the time we are babies. Look at the toys girls are expected to play with. I remember having one of those toy kitchen thingies, baby dolls, even those shopping carts with all the toy food that went with it, Barbie dolls (wretched things!)... the list goes on and on. Though I played with my nephew's "boy toys" more, and I had more fun just playing outside by myself without toys... just using my imagination.

Today, I think it's a lot worse for little girls. Now we have the whole princess complex. Every little girl is trained that they must be the damsel in distress and wait for ther prince on the white horse to come, so they can get married and live happily ever after. Yes, this has been around as long as Disney, but it wasn't such a huge problem until recent years when Disney "brand named" it. *rolls eyes* They're going to grow up and have a harder time realizing that princes just don't ride in on white horses.. and that relationships are about compromise. There is never a happilly ever after in this life. There's always struggles, pain and challenges. Life only gets harder and more challenging after marriage. From what I've been told anyway. ^_^;

I'm not demeaning the institution of marriage and being a homemaker in any way. I would like to be married and maybe have kids someday, but I realize that this isn't my one and only purpose in life. I can do so much more. =)

If a child is going to be intelligent, you have to train them at a very early age. Granted, some of it is heredity, but a lot of it is learned. Teach a child to be independant, free-thinking, respectful, loving, and hard working in their early childhood, and they will carry that behaviour into adulthood. Likewise, take a little girl and teach them that they need to be concerned with fashion, appearance, cooking, cleaning, taking care of babies, then as they get older drill this into their head with the media (God only knows how important music, movies, and celebrities are as a teenager), they will end up either giving in or being beat down by it when they realize that they don't fit that image at all.

Men also have some very stupid expectations of them as well... such as being manly, liking sports, and they must be agressive. Any guy who isn't is gay... and well, being gay is this horrible terrible thing. *rolls eyes* So we have a lot of men who end up being abusive and uncaring when it comes to their girlfriends or wives. Women in return are trained to be loyal to their men, and have a hard time escaping from that abuse. I know that abuse is a horrible thing, and I'm not demeaning it at all. But abuse and the descision to stay in it is usually (not always, circumstances can be different) something trained from childhood.

To make matters worse, on Jerry Springer and various (annoying) talk and court shows, we have men with the whole "I'm the man" complex, and women with the "princess" complex as well. We also have children who watch these shows when their parents are vegging out on the couch, and they may not realize that this kind of behavior is not right.

Yes I admit, it is worse in Japan because in order to be honorable to your family, a woman is expected to fill the role of homemaker. But the issue of weight is different, they have a smaller frame than most westerners do. The average here is 5'4", 135-145 lbs, and a size 12. The average there is a heck of a lot smaller. But at least in the U.S. we don't have as many cultural stigmas keeping people from striving to be different. I believe with some work, these views can be changed. Just are people going to be willing to let that change come?

When people stand up and say "No, I don't want this anymore" the media and other industries will have no choice but to listen. Either that, or they will go into more extremes to drill this into our heads. *sigh* But at least you can keep your own self and family sane by realizing these things, and making changes in your own life.

Loose weight to be healthy, not to fit in with society's view of what you SHOULD look like. Encourage imagination and free thought in children, plus other good morals, and your children will grow up to be good people.
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Last edited by Bobbi : 02-18-2005 at 12:18 PM.
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Unread 02-18-2005, 11:58 AM   #154
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Media influences do not always have to be images either. Look at movies or TV shows. You never see one overweight person as the heroine who gets the guy at the end. They are either the sidekick, comedy relief, or one of the first to be killed (in a horror film). The "ugly girl turned beautiful" character is a joke, too. They are beautiful to begin with.... all they had to do was slap on some glasses and *poof* they're an "ugly girl".

What I'm getting at is, these types of films are pretty much screaming at their audiences the message of "you must be beautiful for all this stuff to happen to you."

**EDIT** *points to above post* Yeah, what she said, too....

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Unread 02-18-2005, 01:02 PM   #155
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Bobbi: Wow, you made my point better than I did! Yeah, everyone-refer to Bobbi's post - she took what I was trying to say and explained it better.

Chibi: Actually have you ever seen Shallow Hal? It's like the one movie where the overweight chick gets the hero. But yeah....there really aren't many more than that, are there?
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Unread 02-18-2005, 02:34 PM   #156
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Just look up every movie Rikki Lake ever starred in.
 
Unread 02-18-2005, 09:07 PM   #157
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In all honesty...some people are just out to poke fun, or make some kind of irrational, ignorant remark to make release tension, or just to try and make themselves heard. Friends or not, or even if rules prohibit it, someone will always be there to put you down every step of the way, or turn you down. How you deal with it, is entirely up to you though.
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Unread 02-18-2005, 09:44 PM   #158
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Hrmmm I think ETL got this one good - but I'll make a more blunt point:

There are a LOT of people in the US that just want to see other people miserable, hate themselves, or feel like crap.. or go into depression. Shoot, when was the last time you DIDN'T have a "bad neighbor" lol.

Actually, we're lucky on that one right now.. but still, sometimes there's people who are just bad.. and there are a lot of cosplayers with that mentality.. I mean not to be bold, but I've run into those kinds of people several times before since at least online, I like to ""get around", and they think that you should only be known if you're the world's greatest cosplayer.

So I've gotten a few threats before, some from people you might have met.. but that I won't dig into, point is there's some ****ed up people in this world.

The last thing you want to do with them is say "I can show them!" -- that's just falling for their trap I guess you can say, because trying to measure up against people like that is impossible, since you're playing their game by their rules and you'll always be wrong.

Another way to put that? If you're going to lose weight don't do it because you want to gain status in cosplay.. do it for your health if you NEED to. Everyone could use a little more exercise (ya know, stairs instead of elevator, walking regularly, stuff that could be done by land instead of by car) - never a bad idea.

But there's dozens of other things to be considered in cosplaying that are "more important" than "How you look" -- try socializing, exercising your improvision/ingenuity by presenting yourself the best you can given your resources, or even one of the "lost talents" of cosplay -- good masquerades! It's a shame so many people focus on weight and "image" instead of acting or presenting.
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Unread 02-18-2005, 11:55 PM   #159
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Indeed. Well said Link.

When I first started hearing about cosplay (and seeing it) for sport instead of just doing it myself at work, I had the funny little idea in my head that it was like an improv acting thing, and you were playing like in the movie "The Mask". You were dressing up like the character so you could pretend to be someone beside yourself for a day. Then I started noticing it was more about the presentation of the costume and very few people actually got "into character".. infact those few who did do it were looked at funny.. or not well recieved.

I scratched my head at this at first, but now I'm used to it. I'd like there to be more of an improv. acting element thing going on with the cosplays, to me that would be more fun. Like the way the Renn. Fairs are but with anime... but I suppose thats a bit more difficult to do if you are shy or not really good at doing improv on the spot. Still, even if it's not about becoming the character, it is about the costuming itself rather then the body of the person wearing it. Everyones body is beautiful in some way, it's just a matter of figuiring out which bits are the most impressive and drawing attention tehre, and and away from the bits that aren'ts o impressive.

And to Miyu about my over the top wishful thinking...

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Last edited by MissSCeleste : 02-23-2005 at 11:28 AM.
 
Unread 02-19-2005, 12:16 AM   #160
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I, personally, don't have a problem with people who don't...let's say, look too much like the charactres they cosplay. Myself? I don't really want to cosplay someone I don't look much like unless it's a character I REALLY like. I'm in it for both charcater love and the costume. I just think it would be awesome if, when I'm done with my costume, I can say "I AM Gaara."

Just like the other 1000000 Gaaras. >.>
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Unread 02-19-2005, 12:27 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyu
i don't think there is ANY excuse for overweight or underweight people to feel unhappy with themselves when they can easily take the initiative to do something to change that. i don't like hearing people whine. at all.

I say that it's not easy to just loose weight, but if you really do try, it will happen. There are two things that are the most important of all though 1) you need to feel comfortable about yourself, if you're skinny and you feel like shit, dun loose weight...duh..... but, if you DO feel happier, then do it and if your will is strong enough it will happen. 2) dun blame it on genetics. dun question it. Run away from it. it screws with the whole system of self motivation. "I'm stupid and can't do math promblems because of genetics", "I'm ugly becuase I'm asian", "I can't dance becasue I'm white." wtf, listen to yourself, this is not helping YOURSELF!!!!! Do the nike thing "JUST DO IT" (whatever it maybe... cosplaying or lossing weight, whatevers.).
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Unread 02-19-2005, 12:38 AM   #162
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Some people ARE just lazy. I totally lack motivation for...well, most things. I think it's partly because, honestly, I'm a bit spoiled, and partly because I have the Wells lazy gene that plagues my father, his siblings, and maybe even their father.

...If I could just do my damn exercise everyday, I could drop 20 or 30 pounds after a while and be a total stud. Then again, the way I live, I'm lucky I'm not a total blimp or something.

Though, even with my extra padding, I'm dead sexy. You just wait for the photos... >.>

EDIT: Though, the Wells lazy gene is no excuse. My Dad has it and even he got to working out. I wonder what I can do to get motivated...
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Last edited by kyoushu : 02-19-2005 at 01:19 AM.
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Unread 02-19-2005, 01:16 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KonekoMiyabi
Now that's just rude. You act like these people want to be overweight or are just lazy! Maybe it's easy for you to drop pounds but for some people obesity is genetic and it's actually very hard if not impossible without medical help. Keep in mind that you don't just wake up one day and decide to lose 20 pounds. It's actually a lengthy process that involves going to a doctor or nutritionist to design the best weight loss and exercise plan for your body type and lifestyle, perhaps even going to a support group to keep your moral up etc.etc.
I don't mean to single you out ( I'd quote Celebrimbor's posts but I think he's given up posting in this thread) but as for you having "no problem telling overweight people to get up and go lose it all until they feel comfortable" I sincerely hope you do it in a nicer and more supportive manner than you demonstrated in your post. That's what all of us were originally trying to do in this thread...give support.

I haven't stopped following the thread, I was just waiting for something worth commenting on. I honestly agree with what you deride as being 'rude'.

I woke up one day and decided to shave my weight from 190 to 170. I've been at it since mid December, and I'm down to 178.

I don't agree with all that genetic bs; I acknowledge that it exists, but I don't think it's an excuse. It's just a way of telling yourself that it's not your fault, that you can be resentful and not have to cope with your own actions because you're "genetically disposed" to be fat. Total bs. You're just dodging the real issue: discipline and action, and how you lack it.

I do however think we should have a national eugenics program in the USA, to weed out such undesirables.

Last edited by Celebrimbor : 02-19-2005 at 01:28 AM.
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Unread 02-19-2005, 01:27 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebrimbor
I haven't stopped following the thread, I was just waiting for something worth commenting on. I honestly agree with what you deride as being 'rude'.

I woke up one day and decided to shave my weight from 190 to 170. I've been at it since mid December, and I'm down to 178.

I don't believe all that genetic bs. It's just a way of telling yourself that it's not your fault, that you can be resentful and not have to cope with your own actions because you're "genetically disposed" to be fat. Total bs. You're just dodging the real issue: discipline and action, and how you lack it.

I honestly think we should have a national eugenics program in the USA, though, to weed out people who are predisposed to eat too much.
Genetics DO have a lot to do with it. Both of my parents are overweight, my sister is overweight, and much of my extended family is overweight. Do I entirely blame genetics? No. A lot of it I blame on poor eating habits I developed as an adolescent, and that Iíve never been an extremely active person. However, because of genetics, Iím naturally a ďbigger personĒ and thereís nothing I can do about that. It probably also has to do with no matter how much I exercise and eat well, I canít get past this certain weight limit. And as I said earlier, Iíll never be a size 6. Itís PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE, unless you staple my stomach, and start removing muscle tissue, and perhaps even bone as well.
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Unread 02-19-2005, 01:30 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokuu
Itís PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE, unless you staple my stomach, and start removing muscle tissue, and perhaps even as well.
Then do so. You'll live longer, be more popular, more successful, more attractive.

Stomach stapling isn't that expensive anymore, because it's cheaper for insurance companies then dealing with heart disease.

Don't take my opinions wrong: I have nothing against individual persons, regardless of appearance. I'm sure you're all good people and if I met you in person I might actually strike friendships with some of you because you share many of my interests. But as a collective group, I think overweight people should be exterminated, or at the very least forbidden by law from reproducing.

Last edited by Celebrimbor : 02-19-2005 at 01:37 AM.
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