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Unread 10-27-2006, 05:42 AM   #16
CienDragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantra
Latex = more expensive then gesso, by a lot, though. Latex can also be a serious pain to work with. Gesso is pretty much easy to use and clean up.
He said latext paint which is different from the latex I think you're thinking of. Home Depot sells gallons of latex paint for like $10 which is cheaper than the Gesso I've been able to find by googling.
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Unread 10-27-2006, 06:55 AM   #17
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Forgive me for being ignorant but, what would you use pink insulation for?
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Unread 10-27-2006, 07:12 AM   #18
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Oh, forgot to add, in Canada Home Hardware sells this stuff.
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Unread 10-27-2006, 08:14 AM   #19
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Lowes sells blue foam board not pink, but its the same stuff.

I used the stuff to make my death hauler. If you want to make your foam nigh indestructable use bondo. Just becareful with it....

Though when I started the death hauler I wish I knew some of the things I do now...but live and learn

great tutorial...
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Unread 10-27-2006, 09:52 AM   #20
Jantra
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I'll add that Lowes sells the blue stuff, and about bondo. I have NO experience with bonbo, though, but I can mention it. Anyone willing to write up a little paragraph about bondo or recommend a great tuturial so I can link to it for bonbo??

Updated the guide
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Unread 10-27-2006, 10:33 AM   #21
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Okay, I've worked with insulation foam a few times and I have a few things to add that I've had success with.

1) Adhesives - Water based contact cement is what I've always used to attach foam to foam or foam to anything else. The stuff I've used before comes in a little pot that looks like a minature paint can and the label is yellow and green. I forget the brand, but I can find that out for you later. But the biggest part to remember is that it HAS to be WATER BASED. No if, ands or buts about it. I once tried to use these cheap little tubes of contact cement from the dollar store because I was low on time and money and THIS is what happened to it. The contact cement was apparently alcohol based and ate through the foam right before my eyes!

As for using contact cement you'll need a paintbrush (a larger painters brush from the dollar store is perfect). Contact cement (or at least anything I've used) is very watery, so you'll need the paintbrush to spread on an even, decent amount on BOTH surfaces you're going to be sticking to each other. Then you wait perhaps 5 minutes (depends on how thick you applied it) or until it is almost dry and very tacky. You then put both tacky surfaces together. While they're drying it's best to either put something heavy (like a text book) on top of it or clamp the pieces together. My suggestion is to leave this for as long as you possibly can (24 hours would be great, but I've started working with it only after a few hours in the past).

BTW, once you're done with the paintbrush for the contact cement, if you want to keep it/use it again, CLEAN IT RIGHT AWAY!! Do not let it dry! It'll cake onto your brush like rubber and be almost impossible to clean up after the fact, so do yourself a favour and don't use any fancy, expensive brushes.

2) Strength - I completely agree with you that Gesso is the perfect top coat (as you can also sand it to a degree to get a much smoother finish), but as the ONLY thing protecting the foam from dents and scratches ... no to much. What I've used for both Mr. Pointy (my Rogue sword) and my Lute has been a combination of wood glue, water, cheese cloth and tissue paper, which I usually hear referred to as Scrim. Take wood glue (as it is stronger than regular white glue, but if white glue is all you have, go for it) and basically mix a ratio of 1:1 glue and water (ie, as much water as you have glue). If you'd like it to be thicker, just add less water.

You're going to use this combination exactly like paper mache. The cheese cloth will be your base (you can get this in the dollar store here in Canada ... not sure where you'd get it anywhere else) and the tissue paper will go over top to make the surface smoother. First spread a thin layer over the surface (so that it sticks better), then take your cheese cloth (which you need to cut into pieces before hand. Really, and size or shape will work, but the bigger you make them the harder it will be to make it smooth, so I would suggest roughly 2"x2" or smaller) and lay it flat on your surface piece by piece, then take your paint brush and cover the dry parts of the cheese cloth with some scrim until they're completely covered.

Continue this until you've covered your entire surface, overlapping pieces is a good idea for strength, but do your best not to have any bumps in the cheese cloth, as itís hard to get rid of those after the fact. 2 or 3 layers is best for strength. Once you're satisfied with the amount of cheese cloth you've covered your surface with, switch over to using tissue paper. Helpful hint with the tissue is to rip your pieces instead of cutting them with scissors, as this will make it easier for the edges of each piece to disappear into each other instead of seeing straight cuts all over your surface.

I'd just like to take a moment to explain why you've done all this. Cheese cloth is a fiber, therefore making it harder to tear apart, unlike tissue paper. This makes a strong under coat for your foam. The thicker the layer the stronger it will be. Problem with the cheese cloth is that it's a fiber, so it has texture. For your own sanity (as in, I skipped this step on my Rogue sword and lived to regret it) do a top coat with the tissue paper. What this does is add another layer of strength to your prop, plus smoothes out and covers the texture of the cheese cloth, which means you can use less gesso on top of the scrim (because you have less texture to hide/even out). Yes, you can skip the cheese cloth coat and go straight to the tissue, but it will also make your prop less resistant to dents and scratches.

Then gesso and paint. ^_^
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Unread 10-27-2006, 10:36 AM   #22
WARPAINTandUnicorns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantra
Geez, Ani_BEE. I would have shipped it to you for cheaper then that. o.O
Do you know how mad I was but I was desperate at the time so even finding one locally was better then nothing >___< but I still cheaper then the ones they sale online (and that’s $35 Canadain so it's a bit cheaper then the US priece.)


Note: In Decemer of this year Michael’s in Canada now stocks hot wire cutters and small exacto knife blade hot knifes…
Let me fume some more!
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Unread 10-27-2006, 10:46 AM   #23
DalaiLiam
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here we go... the old insulation foam sword tut I was working on way back when. It's got some pics and step by step.

Anywho as for laytex paint being expensive.... Not so much.. Since it's just a base coat the color doesn't matter that much.(Just go with light colors for white things, darker colors for black things) I've found you can get the "OOPS PAINT" (or the colors that they mixed for other people and messed up on) at places like Home Depot for about 6 bucks a gallon.

Oh and when I said wire cutter, I meant hot wire cutter like the ones you can get at most crafts stores.
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Unread 10-30-2006, 02:17 AM   #24
Jessia
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For fellow Canadians, you can also pick up pink insulation foam at Rona.
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Unread 10-30-2006, 11:57 AM   #25
Jantra
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Added, Jessia! ^^
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Unread 10-30-2006, 03:42 PM   #26
PrincessYuni
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Ill start writing up a Bondo Tut. The stuff is relatively "safe" to work with (compared to things like fibergalss) but its a pain to use.
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Unread 10-30-2006, 04:29 PM   #27
CienDragon
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I wouldn't really say that auto-repair filler/putty (aka Bondo) is significantly safer than using fiberglass resin and cloth. It's probably safer than using a polyester resin because polyester resin is hardened with MEKP(methyl ethyl ketone peroxide) and Bondo putty is hardened with dibenzoyl peroxide instead. Admittidly, MEKP is pretty harmful but if Epoxy resin is used instead of polyester resin then you wouldn't be using MEKP anyway. Putty however does share health risks with fiberglass cloth when you sand it, and you (almost) always sand auto-repair putty. Bondo putty is essentially polyester resin mixed with small particles of glass and minerals. Consequently, when you sand it small particles of glass go into the air which, if you're not wearing a proper mask, can cause big problems in your lungs just like if you sand fibgerglass cloth.
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Unread 10-30-2006, 08:17 PM   #28
DalaiLiam
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Bondo is NOT solvent free. Unless the foam is sealed really well it will eat into it. I can post a pic of the back seam on my servebot head to support this claim if you want.
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Unread 10-31-2006, 12:03 AM   #29
Jantra
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Dalai, what do you recommend to seal the foam with for bondo to go on it?
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Unread 10-31-2006, 01:24 AM   #30
DalaiLiam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantra
Dalai, what do you recommend to seal the foam with for bondo to go on it?
Some thick ass Guesso (as I didn't try to seal the foam untill AFTER I'd bondoed it up, leaving a pretty bad scar)... I guess. I never really thought about it. I kinda gave up on mixing the two and was looking more torwards finding other solutions. I was thinking maybe a little gorilla glue cut down to the level of the surface with an xacto knife, then all the pores of the gorilla glue on the surface filled with woodglue or elmers. I haven't really had a chance/need to work on it though.
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