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Unread 06-26-2007, 07:07 PM   #31
Dance H2O Dance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salazar View Post
that's a LOT of people. don't most (american) cons have a limit to the amount of performers they allow onstage? granted, that was like, epic, but it might be impossible for an american group to do.

plus, i think the sheer size of that group was it's most defining feature. i think if there were fewer people it would allow for more characterization, which would allow the audience to feel more "involved." but, then again, i'm kinda speaking out of jealousy because pfft, i want to be in a ginormeous group like that (that's so coooool). ><;;

ps: dance h20 dance, i love your name!
Oh, yeah, but what I was trying to show was how when each character got their own spotlight turn, they did things that really portrayed their characters. xD I wasn't trying to particularily show how many performers, the group, etc., etc., they had, but more of what each person did. ..Did that make any sense? >.>;; I tend, to, uh, rant.

I KNOZ. I ARE WANTING HUGE GROUP, TOO. D; Cool like coo' whip!

LOLZ. Thanks. xD
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Unread 06-26-2007, 09:49 PM   #32
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I think what Danziku is describing is the balancing act he's having to do between what we all WANT for our masquerades, and what we're being forced to deal with from the audience perception that walk-on equals boring. Changing the competitors' minds isn't as hard as changing the audience's mind, when the audience has been trained by anime con culture that skits are where it's at and a walk-on is boring. I suppose, if Ikki and similar cons have enough people entering who want to do enhanced solo presentations, glorified walk-ons, with their own music, and they're able to allow them to do so, they'll gradually change the audience's perception once they see that such presentations are very cool in their own right. But that's a very gradual thing. Swimming upstream, really. But if we don't start now, the cosplayers ten years down the road will have lost the art of presentation and be snowed under amateur actors trying to play their skits.
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Unread 06-27-2007, 02:18 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by CapsuleCorp View Post
I think what Danziku is describing is the balancing act he's having to do between what we all WANT for our masquerades, and what we're being forced to deal with from the audience perception that walk-on equals boring. Changing the competitors' minds isn't as hard as changing the audience's mind, when the audience has been trained by anime con culture that skits are where it's at and a walk-on is boring. I suppose, if Ikki and similar cons have enough people entering who want to do enhanced solo presentations, glorified walk-ons, with their own music, and they're able to allow them to do so, they'll gradually change the audience's perception once they see that such presentations are very cool in their own right. But that's a very gradual thing. Swimming upstream, really. But if we don't start now, the cosplayers ten years down the road will have lost the art of presentation and be snowed under amateur actors trying to play their skits.
Exactly. Like I said, this is NOT a decision we came to easily. I also had to consider the fact that we have to outsource our audio technicians, and they are NOT fond of dealing with that many discs...not yet...

*
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Unread 07-26-2007, 09:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzikumaru View Post
This was not a decision we came easily to. It basically came about as a compromise between the audience and the participants. The Judges aren't going to be effected by the music, given it puts all of the walk-ons in a level playing field for that aspect and does not hamper their ability to use stage pressence.
*
Let me start by saying that I know you put alot of thought into your decisions. I can see that by what I've seen of you on the forums over the past few years.

That being said I have to disagree. I feel that "general walk on music" for all contestants doesn't neccessarily = a level playing field. Also as someone who had judged myself, I have to say that atmosphere does play a large part in how a costume plays.

Generic cute girl anime costumes may do well to let's say upbeat pop type music, where beautiful historical dresses not so much. Horroriffic type cosutme walk on's would go better with more spooky, atmospheric music.

A costume that is serious, has a tragic context, or is even horrific would just seem silly to upbeat pop music, or anything other than appropriately dark music, which would detract from the overall effect. As much as music can aid in showing costumes, inappropriate music can also impact negatively.

Of course this is just my POV based on masquerades I've seen with Fashion Show type walk on segments of thier main masquerade, (Which admittedly I am not a big fan of, I think it belittles solo contestants).

Anyhow I'm curious about yours. Do you have it uploaded anywhere such as youtube? Perhaps you'll convert me. XD
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Last edited by Kaijugal : 07-26-2007 at 09:31 AM.
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Unread 07-26-2007, 04:34 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijugal View Post
Let me start by saying that I know you put alot of thought into your decisions. I can see that by what I've seen of you on the forums over the past few years.

That being said I have to disagree. I feel that "general walk on music" for all contestants doesn't neccessarily = a level playing field. Also as someone who had judged myself, I have to say that atmosphere does play a large part in how a costume plays.

Generic cute girl anime costumes may do well to let's say upbeat pop type music, where beautiful historical dresses not so much. Horroriffic type cosutme walk on's would go better with more spooky, atmospheric music.

A costume that is serious, has a tragic context, or is even horrific would just seem silly to upbeat pop music, or anything other than appropriately dark music, which would detract from the overall effect. As much as music can aid in showing costumes, inappropriate music can also impact negatively.

Of course this is just my POV based on masquerades I've seen with Fashion Show type walk on segments of thier main masquerade, (Which admittedly I am not a big fan of, I think it belittles solo contestants).

Anyhow I'm curious about yours. Do you have it uploaded anywhere such as youtube? Perhaps you'll convert me. XD
We do indeed, lemme find it for yah...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y1_pB9F5bH8 part one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qxyncrPONRo part two
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyo-rIORK34 part three
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XqBp3ybvELQ part four
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IlxvD7y9w2A part five
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxPZQp1itJU part six.

Ignore my crap MC job, as I won't be MCing next year. Any and all suggestions are welcome. A few things we had to correct mid-show (sporadic lighting, music too loud, crap mic)

*
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Unread 07-26-2007, 04:54 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzikumaru View Post
We do indeed, lemme find it for yah...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y1_pB9F5bH8 part one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qxyncrPONRo part two
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyo-rIORK34 part three
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XqBp3ybvELQ part four
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IlxvD7y9w2A part five
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxPZQp1itJU part six.

Ignore my crap MC job, as I won't be MCing next year. Any and all suggestions are welcome. A few things we had to correct mid-show (sporadic lighting, music too loud, crap mic)

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i liked the audeince lecture. it was very nice.
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Unread 07-26-2007, 05:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzikumaru View Post
We do indeed, lemme find it for yah...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y1_pB9F5bH8 part one
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qxyncrPONRo part two
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyo-rIORK34 part three
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XqBp3ybvELQ part four
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IlxvD7y9w2A part five
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxPZQp1itJU part six.

Ignore my crap MC job, as I won't be MCing next year. Any and all suggestions are welcome. A few things we had to correct mid-show (sporadic lighting, music too loud, crap mic)

*
Wow, Danzik, I give you a 2 thumbs up for getting ACTUAL COSPLAYERS for judges. I'm sick of voice actors and their biased judging based on "If I voiced them they win!" :\ I see lots of beautiful and intricate costumes that never win just because they're new fansubbed animes, old animes, or unrecognizable.

Even if you're not MCing next year, take it easy and don't shuffle around and figit. I have no intentions (Which should go for everyone else) of throwing a decomposing crow at you by standing up there, so don't tense up. Also another high-five for you not making TONS of annoying commentary and trying to act like it's the Super Bowl. W00t.

I'd give my 2 cents on being a decent walk on but I'd rather save it for later ^^;
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Unread 09-25-2007, 02:41 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Honey Usagi-chi View Post
Wow, Danzik, I give you a 2 thumbs up for getting ACTUAL COSPLAYERS for judges. I'm sick of voice actors and their biased judging based on "If I voiced them they win!" :\ I see lots of beautiful and intricate costumes that never win.
How many conventions actually still DO this? I do not think it is too difficult to find actual cosplayers to perform your judging roles, especially if you have a proper application process in place. After I took over Anime Boston's masquerade in 2007, I did away with "guest judges" (I will not use a guest judge unless they are specifically a cosplay guest who has experience with judging.) After the guest judging fiascoes of 2005 and 2006, I did not want to deal with that again. I think it is far more important to have people who can appropriately and ethically evaluate craftsmanship and presentation than to have the 'crowd pleasing" voice actor or guest judge. Also regarding cosplayer-judges, in 2006, there were some issues with Hall Cosplay judges being allowed to enter the Masquerade and vice versa, so I made an ironclad rule that any judges and staff were not permitted to compete.

Now, back on the topic of walk ons: It is my own personal opinion that walk-on presentations are highly underrated by the anime convention circuit as a whole (to the point where, like Danzikumaru mentioned, some conventions are doing away with them completely.) Anime cosplayers seem to be more concerned with finding the funniest, most fan-servicing, audience pleasing skit than with simply showcasing craftsmanship. I think that a very dynamic walk-on can knock my socks off more than a skit with a bunch of hyperactive fanboys/girls jumping around on stage like a bunch of monkeys.

Far from disallowing walk-ons in my show, I actually reserve a set number of slots especially for walk-ons. Even if skit places fill up first (which they typically do) I will hold the walk-on spaces for interested individuals. I have not had to add more skits for lack of interest in walk-ons.

As someone who has done presentation judging, emceed and managed Masquerade events, my opinion is that dynamic poses, appropriate music, and the ability to work the stage are essential for a good walk-on presentation. As for pre-recorded music for all walk-ons, I do not agree with that. It undermines what a dynamic presentation a walk on can become with the right music and mood. I will be holding an optional 'costume parade' event at Anime Boston 2008 for interested Hall Cosplay participants where I will be using a pre-recorded track, but the walk ons being judged for presentation will be required to choose appropriate tracks for themselves.
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Last edited by LadyHawke78 : 09-25-2007 at 02:44 AM.
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Unread 09-25-2007, 02:47 AM   #39
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That's the thing, I know that if we start requiring it...no one will comply. It's a matter of easing into the process. Once we have more clout with the conventions we work (as well as a better establishment with our working style), we will begin enforcing such a rule, but for now we will go with the general music as opposed to no music.

*
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Unread 09-25-2007, 02:54 AM   #40
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I can feel the frustration, Danzikumaru. I give my props to anyone who is involved with the management aspect of Masquerade events. Initiating or altering policies does not come easily. I received a LOT of heat last year when I implemented the 'no staff' policy at AB. Easing into a sound requirement wold probably be best if attendees are accustomed to the pre-recorded tracks.

Another option that could help you ease into a policy change like this would be to have a laptop with a large selection of anime music on it, and give people the option of choosing something off of that if they fail to bring sound of their own. I have 3 gigs of anime tracks on my laptop alone simply as backup for people with audio issues at-con. It came in handy quite a few times in 2007.
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Unread 09-25-2007, 03:04 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by LadyHawke78 View Post
I can feel the frustration, Danzikumaru. I give my props to anyone who is involved with the management aspect of Masquerade events. Initiating or altering policies does not come easily. I received a LOT of heat last year when I implemented the 'no staff' policy at AB. Easing into a sound requirement wold probably be best if attendees are accustomed to the pre-recorded tracks.

Another option that could help you ease into a policy change like this would be to have a laptop with a large selection of anime music on it, and give people the option of choosing something off of that if they fail to bring sound of their own. I have 3 gigs of anime tracks on my laptop alone simply as backup for people with audio issues at-con. It came in handy quite a few times in 2007.
That...is something to consider. It will definately be something we think on in the future.

*
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Unread 09-27-2007, 09:44 PM   #42
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Danzikumaru -- The other thing that you can consider once you feel ready to gte into the contestants providing their own music, is to make a mix disc pre-convention so that your sound guys don't have to deal with the multiple discs. I don't know if you've thought of this already, but I thought it worth while to bring up since you previously made a comment about the sound guys not loving the multiple discs. Just hit the pause button for MC announcements and intros and then play for the walk on. ^_^ This way, you can also keep each track down to the exact time frame, so if you have a contestant who wants to make a skit of their walk-on, their music ends, buhbye.

Personally, I think the music was a great place to start. But I do agree that the contestant ought to choose their own music. However, you could also provide a backup list of 5 or 6 choices so if the contestant does not provide their own, or it is found to be inappropriate or is not working, they can find a choice that comes close to matching their costume.

In general: As for the microphones, personally, I hate them. However, I'm also a musician and therefore do not see why anyone cannot learn to project their speaking voice to fill a hall. However, if a contestant records their own track, there's nothing worse than it clipping. So it is a double edged sword. If you are recording your own track, PLEASE make sure your levels are hot, but not so hot they clip. You want you to sound good. ^_^

And for a walk-on, be confident and BE your character. Also, show off your entire costume -- your costume is not just the front view. ~_^

D
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Unread 09-28-2007, 11:28 AM   #43
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A quick side note about using a single mixed track for the runway style presentations... I had someone build us a long set to use with upbeat, fashion show type music with no lyrics. That worked great, except for the one track that sampled the Pac-Man death sound. Yep. You guessed it. Some poor girl walked out on stage, posed, and got the death noise. I was absolutely horrified.

The more I think about it, I like the idea of A: letting everyone bring their own track and B: having a default set to choose from if they don't have anything.
But should it be limited to the show/game themes only? Or should we allow for other songs (current popular music, 80's stuff, etc.)?
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Unread 09-28-2007, 09:57 PM   #44
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I suppose it depends on what kinds of entries you get in your masquerades. If it's primarily anime or game, people usually default to that - it takes an extra spark of creativity to tie a costume to a pop song. Which, granted, may be in the contestant's advantage, but it could also be a detriment. If it's mostly people in basic character costumes, themes work fine. But if you have a lot of creative souls who like to branch out and do obscure characters - or even characters from sources for which the theme music isn't available - then opening it up will serve you and them better. Really, I guess, if you want to encourage creativity and see what people come up with (even if they fail miserably), leave it wide open.
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Unread 10-03-2007, 12:51 AM   #45
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The topic kind of veer'd off what makes a good walk on...

so my question wasnt really answered (well it KIND of was...but not.)

I'm thinking about doing a walk on at AX next year. I've heard good, bad, and horffic stories about AX masqurade in general- I've been a spectator since 2001 so I dunno what goes on back stage.

I'm iffy about doing it because THIS year, Masq really wasnt that great (or even decent). But I have a costume I'm incredibly proud of that I want to try to enter in cosplay events.

The issue :
It'll be me, myself, and I on that stage. I cant get ANY ONE to do a walk on with me, or even a skit. I've been pretty bored by walk ons from time to time, but the good ones are just GOOD.

Is it the music? presentation? poses, what? If all else fails I'll do chibi masq. but it may be my last con too, so I wanna do something BIG.

Also, since you can only participate in one catagory, what do they expect (any con at this point) when it comes to craftsmanship? Well constructed, looks good, combination of the two? Does presentation (your performance) help in the judging of that catagory?

thats it for now.

~Diana
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