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Unread 12-28-2007, 07:05 PM   #16
Kaimana Scarlet
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I agree with *Le* and Petiteprincess1 that comments are meant to help you with your outfit, not tear your down. And Petiteprincess1, I did not even notice your spelling or grammar because it is not that bad nor is it apparent. And it barley matters anyway because this forum is to share knowledge of lolita and help other people, and as long as your not talkyn lyke dis it doesn't matter if you make a few spelling or grammatical errors once in a while. I would not be offended in the least if someone on this forum told me to correct something on my outfit or that something doesn't work well. I would be glad that someone on the internet told me rather than go out in my outfit and be ridiculed. Im sorry to be so off the subject of this thread and i am also sorry to have butted into the argument but I just felt that I had to say something about this matter.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 12:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
like you said lolita is dressing like aristocratic period girls. and maids are servants. the complete opposite of what a loli is about. and i dont think its close minded at all, its like telling a dog its close minded cos it cant be a cat O.o
So would Bo-Peep based loli be out of the question, since Bo-Peep is a shepherd girl? And now that brings me the question of Punk Loli. Most punk loli I've seen are more punkish than lady. What about sailor loli's? Sailors don't exactly make your typical tea party guest list.

All I've seen on EGL Community on LJ is that as long as your dress fits the requirements of Loli (ie poofy skirts, mary janes, look-like-a-doll, that sort of things), then you're considered loli. So really, why can't there ever be the possibility of a maid-loli?

I've got also another question regarding this then. Since most people are offended when they're told to act more lady-like while in their loli dresses (ie no swears, cigarettes, etc), then why does being a lady or not matter? A maid could have more grace than a pampered lady, so would being a "lady" really matter?

ps I realize that the rainbow_dancer did confuse actual maids dresses with lolita, but now it seems as if everyone's saying maid-loli is never possible, and personally I don't think anything is impossible, especially when you're talking about fashion.

Besides, it seems like Lolita is about looking adorable, like a doll, than being a lady. Lady is more like...a behavior and a social standing (really, if you think about it, that's what being a lady is) while dolls can be anything. Would you think that anyone wearing a kimono is a lady? No, that would be a really gross assumption. But would you think that anyone wearing a kimono is adorable like a doll? You probably would think more of the latter than of the first.

Last edited by Elenoa : 12-29-2007 at 01:09 PM.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 02:34 PM   #18
*Le*
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Originally Posted by Elenoa View Post
So would Bo-Peep based loli be out of the question, since Bo-Peep is a shepherd girl? And now that brings me the question of Punk Loli. Most punk loli I've seen are more punkish than lady. What about sailor loli's? Sailors don't exactly make your typical tea party guest list.

All I've seen on EGL Community on LJ is that as long as your dress fits the requirements of Loli (ie poofy skirts, mary janes, look-like-a-doll, that sort of things), then you're considered loli. So really, why can't there ever be the possibility of a maid-loli?

I've got also another question regarding this then. Since most people are offended when they're told to act more lady-like while in their loli dresses (ie no swears, cigarettes, etc), then why does being a lady or not matter? A maid could have more grace than a pampered lady, so would being a "lady" really matter?

ps I realize that the rainbow_dancer did confuse actual maids dresses with lolita, but now it seems as if everyone's saying maid-loli is never possible, and personally I don't think anything is impossible, especially when you're talking about fashion.

Besides, it seems like Lolita is about looking adorable, like a doll, than being a lady. Lady is more like...a behavior and a social standing (really, if you think about it, that's what being a lady is) while dolls can be anything. Would you think that anyone wearing a kimono is a lady? No, that would be a really gross assumption. But would you think that anyone wearing a kimono is adorable like a doll? You probably would think more of the latter than of the first.

you need to learn a few things about the fashion. I get the idea you think its a costume or that you are just getting used to the idea of it being an actual fashion and havent quite figured out how to separate fashion and cosplay. which i guess i can understand since the lines are hard to just draw out, but most people just sort of know.

Yes there can be all different types of lolitas. and there is in fact maid loli I’m sure, but it goes in the same category as cat loli does. its a costume and not part of the fashion, just sort of a silly spin off people do for fun. you cant be a loli and a maid at the same time, not unless you really are a maid and you're there for not cosplaying (i.e putting on a costume, pretending to be something you are not) but making the style fit your job I guess.
(though take it from someone who actually is a maid...its completely idiotic to dress like that for work.)


bo-beep loli already crosses into the not actual loli wear but more like cosplay or the sort of thing you would do for a photoshoot. its just a cute spin-off of the fashion.

punk loli is mixing loli up with another fashion (much like goth loli) and making it a little rough around the edges.

and actually, sailor dresses where quite common and started being worn around the 1900s and that trend went on well into 1950 on children. which is indeed where sailor loli comes from. (I can get you pictures if you want too. Id post them now only I’m not on my PC. I collect vintage photos and catalogue pictures, I know a have a few pics of victorian or edwardian girls with sailor dresses)

and I don’t even know where all this "lady" talk came from but... lolita is a fashion. i strongly believe the way you act has nothing to do with it. Yes I suppose you do look like a lady, but hell you don’t have to act like it if you don’t want to. But afcourse theres a few who would disagree with me on that. but lets not get into the lifestyle argument.

Last edited by *Le* : 12-29-2007 at 03:41 PM.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 05:12 PM   #19
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I know i'm relatively new to this forum, but as an artist and writer i would like to put my two cents in.
there is a distinct difference between ' That's cheap' and 'That looks a little cheap, maybe you can fix it by doing this?'

the first one comes off as very clipped and judgemental, especially online where you don't have tone of voice to go with it.

the second one is more of the impression of, 'oops, you made a mistake, let's fix it together.'
it's the difference between constructive criticism and just plain criticism. it doesn't take that much longer to provide a more polite form of your critique.

personally, i think aprons and pinafores are adorable, especially the kind that have two decorative pins or buttons at the top instead of a neck strap, it helps tone down the French Maid associations.
you might want to look into that, rainbow.

I'll go back into my hole now, as i'd rather not get bitched at.

Last edited by PockyFille : 12-29-2007 at 11:24 PM.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 10:40 PM   #20
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^ yes I agree pockyfille. "That's too cheap!" Too costumish! " is is not constructive criticism at all. if people really want to help, then help, no need to say it so rudely when most of the time, many people who post here are very new to lolita fashion. Just have patience with them. It doesn't help either when people say" It's cute, but not loli!" then what will make it more lolita? what will make it nice enough to be accepted by the lolita community?
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Unread 12-29-2007, 10:41 PM   #21
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Not another one, you've probably been told those about a million times already but maid and Lolita are not the same things, Maid is cosplay so I would ask in a cosplay forum. :}
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:15 AM   #22
Yana_Neko
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This is a cosplay forum. This is COSPLAY.COM.

If you don't want it to be cosplay related, ask the mods to move it under another category like "Non-Cosplay Forums: All non-cosplay posting should go in these forums." But EGL is a subforum of the Cosplay forum.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:30 AM   #23
*Le*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PockyFille View Post
I know i'm relatively new to this forum, but as an artist and writer i would like to put my two cents in.
there is a distinct difference between ' That's cheap' and 'That looks a little cheap, maybe you can fix it by doing this?'

the first one comes off as very clipped and judgemental, especially online where you don't have tone of voice to go with it.

the second one is more of the impression of, 'oops, you made a mistake, let's fix it together.'
it's the difference between constructive criticism and just plain criticism. it doesn't take that much longer to provide a more polite form of your critique.

personally, i think aprons and pinafores are adorable, especially the kind that have two decorative pins or buttons at the top instead of a neck strap, it helps tone down the French Maid associations.
you might want to look into that, rainbow.

I'll go back into my hole now, as i'd rather not get bitched at.

I really donít mean to sound rude but wtf does being and artist and writer have to do with anything were discussing here? O.o

the thing is, many of the "this looks cheap" comments are headed toward fabric and lace (Iíd be surprised if it wasnít actually) obviously by saying "the lace looks cheap" you mean "the lace looks cheap, change it to a better one" "this ____ looks cheap" is still constructive criticism it doesnít change it into just criticism -_-''

criticism would be ďsome of your outfit looks cheapĒ without adding what.

and Iím not here to uber sugar coat shit, ill tell people what they need to fix in the outfit in order to make it better but Iím not gonna go out of my way to say it REALLY nicely for those very few freakishly sensitive people who think that "the lace looks cheap" is a completely rude and uncalled for attack on her after she asked for an opinion on the outfit and what she could do to make it better O.o

seriously people wtf?
were not babies here, thereís no need for us to talk to each other as if we are.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:32 AM   #24
*Le*
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Originally Posted by Yana_Neko View Post
This is a cosplay forum. This is COSPLAY.COM.

If you don't want it to be cosplay related, ask the mods to move it under another category like "Non-Cosplay Forums: All non-cosplay posting should go in these forums." But EGL is a subforum of the Cosplay forum.

yeah but maid is not "egl" therefore it doesnt belong into this part of the cosplay forum. which is what i believe Milkhoney was saying. she should take it to some other part of the forum since this forum is for loli and loli cosplay.

Last edited by *Le* : 12-30-2007 at 12:35 AM.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:36 AM   #25
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I'm going to ignore the fight going on above me and give my two cents about the OP's situation.

I think you should look more to something like this (by Angelic Pretty) as inspiration. It still has essence of the "maid" look while holding the estem of Lolita fashion [which I believe is the most important issue when using a "maid" design as a base]. As for the hair and like, I can't really I mprove upon what secretmirror180 has said.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:38 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
I really donít mean to sound rude . . . .
You could have fooled me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
Iím not gonna go out of my way to say it REALLY nicely for those very few freakishly sensitive people who think that "the lace looks cheap" is a completely rude and uncalled for attack on her after she asked for an opinion on the outfit and what she could do to make it better O.o

seriously people wtf?
were not babies here, thereís no need for us to talk to each other as if we are..
You think being nice to people is "going out of your way"? This isn't about sensitivity or whether anyone is a "baby" or not. This is about how everyone needs to be treated with respect. Besides, nobody called YOU out on telling anyone anything, so why do you care? Aren't you being "freakishly sensitive" as well?
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:42 AM   #27
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Ok, let's cool it people. At this point, you've both had your say and are not contributing to the situation the OP is in. She has been corrected. If you guys still see the need to fight, take it to PMs.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:45 AM   #28
BlueBerry_Witch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yana_Neko View Post
This is a cosplay forum. This is COSPLAY.COM.

If you don't want it to be cosplay related, ask the mods to move it under another category like "Non-Cosplay Forums: All non-cosplay posting should go in these forums." But EGL is a subforum of the Cosplay forum.
It's under the cosplay forums, I assume, because people wear Lolita to anime conventions. (And because people assume that Lolita is a costume, not a fashion.) However, that doesn't mean that the outfits themselves are costumes, or that Lolita isn't a fashion. Maid costume =/= Lolita outfit.

It'd be like saying if there was a subforum for "Kimonos" in the Other Costumes section that Kimonos were strictly costumes.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:50 AM   #29
*Le*
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You could have fooled me.



You think being nice to people is "going out of your way"? This isn't about sensitivity or whether anyone is a "baby" or not. This is about how everyone needs to be treated with respect. Besides, nobody called YOU out on telling anyone anything, so why do you care? Aren't you being "freakishly sensitive" as well?

you might as well be calling me out since "This is cheap", "This is wrong", "EGL is NOT a costume" is something i say quite regularly.

and how is me telling you that your lace is cheap and you need to change it after you asked for my opinion on the outfit and what you should change to make it better rude? and it is going out of my way to explain to someone that their lace is cheap and they need to change it nicely. cos that sentence is really not rude at all.

so im guessing i should go something like "honey baby, you're really uber duber cute honey but the lace/fabric is cheap and you need to change it sweet heart" lol
how do you change a sentance thats not rude at all and quite nice to begin with into an even nicer one?

once again, i really dont think you understand the fashion and what needs to be done to fit in it. a dress with cheap looking lace and fabric can easily become not loli. we're not randomly insulting the persons outfit, were telling them how to make it loli. and i realize that in any other fashion if you tell someone "this looks cheap, change it to a better one" is seen as rude, but in lolita is not, its constructive criticism.

Last edited by *Le* : 12-30-2007 at 01:15 AM.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 12:55 AM   #30
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Kalas is right. If you want to discuss this further PM me, PrincessPetite1/*Le* (I swear you guys might as well be the same person). I didn't intend to post again, but I was drawn back in. My fault.

But honestly, if being mean is what it takes to "fit in", I think I'll pass.
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