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Unread 12-30-2007, 02:08 AM   #31
*Le*
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Originally Posted by Yana_Neko View Post
Kalas is right. If you want to discuss this further PM me, PrincessPetite1/*Le* (I swear you guys might as well be the same person). I didn't intend to post again, but I was drawn back in. My fault.

But honestly, if being mean is what it takes to "fit in", I think I'll pass.

I donít think I CAN discuss it any further, I ran out of way of explaining the same thing O.o

like I said, you donít understand the requirements of the fashion (quality is a must, or else its not loli. and there is a right and wrong way of doing it) thus why you donít understand what Iím saying I guess....if youíre into loli, I suppose youíll figure it out eventually as you learn more about the fashion. but if youíre not then, it doesnít matter, and wtf are you even here ;P
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Unread 12-30-2007, 02:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
I donít think I CAN discuss it any further, I ran out of way of explaining the same thing O.o

like I said, you donít understand the requirements of the fashion (quality is a must, or else its not loli. and there is a right and wrong way of doing it) thus why you donít understand what Iím saying I guess....if youíre into loli, I suppose youíll figure it out eventually as you learn more about the fashion. but if youíre not then, it doesnít matter, and wtf are you even here ;P

that's pretty much the issue - with Lolita, there are right/wrong ways and things you have to have for it to be a Lolita outfit. But there are special snowflakes (not the person you're replying to, but just thinking of some of the drama that often comes up) that insist that NO I CAN WEAR WHATEVER I WANT AND CALL IT LOLITA BECAUSE I AM NOT A CONFORMIST!!!

But. Yeah. "That lace looks cheap" is not rude at all. How are you supposed to say it? "Darling, sweetie, you are just the apple of my eye, but maybe you could possibly take notice on the fact that your lace is not-expensive looking and hunnikins, if it wouldn't bother you, you might want to maybe possibly use better lace next time if it suits your whims, Highness."

Lolita is a fashion in which quality and the understandings of the basic rules are a must.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 02:49 AM   #33
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Wow the Lolita way..is...i don't know. Never mind..Anyway
OP i agree with whoever said it and just go with something like Angelic Pretty, Perfect World, Shot Gun Wedding as insparation..not some random pretty pic ( which i do like by the way) Find a major brand so the "Elite" lolita's will be happy and we can end this nonescense of an argument*. And continue this conversation like true Lolita's ^^;
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Unread 12-30-2007, 09:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
I really don’t mean to sound rude but wtf does being and artist and writer
because i was directly asked, i will respond to this and let the wank (which makes all of us lolita look bad and gives the genre/fashion a reputation for being full of elitist bitches) stay behind.

As an artist and writer who puts her work out to be critiqued, i have recieved many such relatively useless comments as 'it sucks' or 'it looks bad'. I want to improve, so i would prefer more contructive, useful criticism. 'i don't like this because...'

and it's not that people need to be babied, but a little bit of more polite phrasing goes a long way, both in lolita and IN THE REAL WORLD.
"That lace looks cheap" is fine, as long as you're also saying, "here's the alternative."

I'm not going to get my bloomers in a twist.
I'm just going to go back to making my wa-loli kimono, doing my reasearch and having fun with a fashion i like.

Last edited by PockyFille : 12-30-2007 at 02:36 PM.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 02:18 PM   #35
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Except saying "This lace looks cheap" already implies the alternative. Get better lace. It's not exactly rocket science. If your lace sucks, you have two options: sit there, or fix it.

I am an elitist, and support elitism. This is not to say I support dickery. It is to say that I support giving credit where it is due, even credit for mistakes. If someone makes a mistake, I will call them on it. If they don't understand, they can ask for clarification. If that is beyond them, then obviously they're only here to start "dramu", so good riddance.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 03:56 PM   #36
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rainbow_dancer: I would personally try looking on websites like angelic pretty and baby the stars shine bright to see what kind of aprons would be exceptable to call loli and what might cross the line of cosplay also look on avant gauche they have scans of the g&l bible that would also give insight to whats considered loli also they have links to patterns that are going to be easier to modify to lolita
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Unread 01-01-2008, 04:49 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBerry_Witch View Post
that's pretty much the issue - with Lolita, there are right/wrong ways and things you have to have for it to be a Lolita outfit. But there are special snowflakes (not the person you're replying to, but just thinking of some of the drama that often comes up) that insist that NO I CAN WEAR WHATEVER I WANT AND CALL IT LOLITA BECAUSE I AM NOT A CONFORMIST!!!

But. Yeah. "That lace looks cheap" is not rude at all. How are you supposed to say it? "Darling, sweetie, you are just the apple of my eye, but maybe you could possibly take notice on the fact that your lace is not-expensive looking and hunnikins, if it wouldn't bother you, you might want to maybe possibly use better lace next time if it suits your whims, Highness."

Lolita is a fashion in which quality and the understandings of the basic rules are a must.

I'm sorry to say, but when someone says 'Cheap', it is commonly looked at as an insult. "U look like a cheap hooker". "Wow, only $6 donation? U R so cheap"

No one is saying OMFRG SHUGAR COAT NOW, they are just saying - be polite. Be Gentle. These are newcomers to the fashion. Maybe if the person KNOWS you in real life, or if you are long time interweb buddies, THEN you can be on the harsh side. Or, if it is obvious the person knows better.

But, I never, EVER took this topic as "OMFG, RORI IS MAID, MAID IS RORI!!"
I took it as, "Hey, I would like to make a Lolita inspired maid." All of you are jumping onto the bandwagon and NOT fixing, helping or pointing her into the right direction. We don't need 5 or 6 people yelling at a new person to EGL "MAID NOT RORI, CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP MAID COSTUME RAWR". If I where new to this fashion, and seeing comments like "Maid NOT = Rori" or "CHEAP, need better race" on my first time here is (pardon my language) pretty fucking scary. It doesn't leave ME a good impresson on this community, no matter how nice you are "elsewhere".


No one is asking you to be super dupper sugar nice. We are just asking, instead of right then and there saying "CHEAP RACE, NOT RORITA YOU SUCK", why not say " Your on the right track, but next time, please use better lace. I know the lace you use is less expensive, but using higher quality lace makes it look less like a costume".

I'm not saying that all of you are mean and harsh, but, to a newcomer, you are harsh. Comming into a new fashion is hard and difficult. So instead of scaring people away, lets welcome them, and help them along the way.

'kay?
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Unread 01-01-2008, 08:07 PM   #38
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I understand you guys are having a argument and I have no intetion of making anyone angry but the point of the thread was to help rainbow. As someone said befor if you want to argue then take it to the PM's. So please and thank you. ^^
Rainbow i agree with Aretimis you should check out thw major brands for inspiration ^^
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Unread 01-01-2008, 11:35 PM   #39
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I don't intend on getting caught up in this arguement or anything, but I had to say my two cents...

Honestly, I hate it when people take something that's supposed to be fun and enjoyable and they turn it into a religious cult... The original poster asked for your advise.. She's new to EGL, and this is what you present her with? Meaningless bickering? Are you TRYING to drive her away from it? Say something constructive about what she's doing, understand that it's all based upon opinion, NOT fact and that's all you need to do. You don't need to come in here and go "bitch" this and "maids aint loliz" that. That maybe your opinion, but just saying it isn't helping at all.

Seriously, if you all just chilled out, maybe you just might have some fun... There is no Bible for lolita, just guildlines... Widely accepted OPINIONS... Rules that can be broken... I mean, God... Lolita's a way of dressing, not a dictatorship...

As for rainbow dancer, that's a REALLY cute dress. For the colours, I think it depends on the type of mood you're going for and also what colours look best on you. I think I'd personally use a bit more lace than in the picture. For some reason, I can imagine it with a goth kind of feel... lol
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Unread 01-02-2008, 01:50 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~daisysakura~ View Post
I don't intend on getting caught up in this arguement or anything, but I had to say my two cents...

Honestly, I hate it when people take something that's supposed to be fun and enjoyable and they turn it into a religious cult... The original poster asked for your advise.. She's new to EGL, and this is what you present her with? Meaningless bickering? Are you TRYING to drive her away from it? Say something constructive about what she's doing, understand that it's all based upon opinion, NOT fact and that's all you need to do. You don't need to come in here and go "bitch" this and "maids aint loliz" that. That maybe your opinion, but just saying it isn't helping at all.

Seriously, if you all just chilled out, maybe you just might have some fun... There is no Bible for lolita, just guildlines... Widely accepted OPINIONS... Rules that can be broken... I mean, God... Lolita's a way of dressing, not a dictatorship...

As for rainbow dancer, that's a REALLY cute dress. For the colours, I think it depends on the type of mood you're going for and also what colours look best on you. I think I'd personally use a bit more lace than in the picture. For some reason, I can imagine it with a goth kind of feel... lol

The problem I have with this is that NO ONE is saying that. Where has anyone said that, at all, on this thread? Even on this board, which by most standards is incredibly tame in the way outfits are critiqued.

People said "A maid costume is not lolita." Not "omg you are a bitch!!!" In fact, no where in this thread have I found anything with anyone calling another person a bitch, so I have no idea where you got that from.

It's a bit ridiculous that just because people are told that, hey, there are rules to lolita and to what lolita is and isn't that we're horrible and omg-how-dare-we.

There are rules to Lolita. Sorry. It's not something that is ever going to go away. Every fashion has rules that help in labeling it and giving it basics to go off from.

Yeah, rules can be broken, but said breaking of those rules might be the thing that makes the outfit not Lolita anymore.

Paraphrased from an article about this very thing, may have gotten the animals wrong, but: "All we're asking is that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a talk, walks and talks like a duck, then don't go around saying it's a sheep."

Like I said in another thread - it is not the most horrible thing in the world to be told that, no, your outfit really isn't Lolita. Are we saying "Your outfit isn't Lolita, so therefore you are a worthless person"? No. Are we saying "Your outfit isn't Lolita and it is so ugly and so are you!!"? NO.

We're saying it isn't Lolita, because of the shape/length/too costumey/whatever. Heck, for an example, look at the "EGA" post someone recently made - absolutely drop dead gorgeous outfit. But not EGA. Still gorgeous.

It seems to me that the people who get overly upset over the rules and people saying this is/isn't lolita are the people that break them, because they want to believe (not you, Daisysakura, but there have been quite a few on this and other boards) that their outfit is "better" than normal Lolita outfits, because they believe they will get praise for being somehow original (plastic lace, cat ears, short skirt=original) instead of being told that their "original" idea is something that makes the outfit not Lolita for one reason or another.

The people that posted did give her constructive thoughts - did you not see the first reply which, while informing her that maid wasn't Lolita, gave plenty of links to go to? And yep, someone said, "wrong board, maid =/= lolita" but what else should they say? It wasn't until someone came in saying that it was SO MEAN AND CRUEL to tell her maid wasn't lolita that the drama and arguments started. And in fact, the OP didn't even seem to think it was all that mean, or at least she didn't throw a fit at the comments that sparked someone else to rant about how horrible and mean this all is.

Woah that was way longer than expected.

But I'm tired of all this exaggerated examples of people being mean that HAVE NOT HAPPENED HERE.

"Your lace is cheap" =/= "OMG CHEAP RACE IS NOT RORITA!!"

But having said that, I'll stop posting in this thread since it's gotten waaaaay off track with what the OP was asking. Anyone feel free to PM me if they feel like talking further.
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Unread 01-02-2008, 01:12 PM   #41
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I agree...but saying something is cheap isn't rude, that is that no one has to say it again and again. So if all the peoples talking about the same argument if you would all please stop and help out Rainbow.
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Unread 01-03-2008, 02:23 AM   #42
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rainbow_dancer, I'm sorry, but I advise that you make a new thread that can hopefully avoid all of the arguing that showed up. This thread was reported a few times, and I think it's best just to close it and start fresh.
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Unread 01-03-2008, 02:56 AM   #43
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ok well maid isn't quite lolita and its true some lolitas do not like it when it is even assosiated with lolita as they consider it too cosplayish or whatever. i honestly dont care, i have a lolita dress that a few lolitas consider too pirate-ish but i still wear it and i love it so i dont really know what i am trying to prove here but ohwell lol
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Unread 01-03-2008, 06:32 PM   #44
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To avoid drama I just want to post to the OP.

rainbow_dancer, here is an image of a lolita wearing an apron, but not looking like a maid.

See, it all depends on your coordination. BTW that's not me. That's someone from egl on livejournal but I can't remember who sorry.
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