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Unread 10-29-2008, 12:11 PM   #811
Shifty Llama
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i think what most people need to learn to do is give constructive criticism, for instance you say something like whoa it looks like you really put a lot of work into that but it would be way more awesome if you had done this this and this. that sort of thing you shouldn't just flat out go up to someone and say you did that wrong and that looks horrible because some people have better skill levels. its simply a case of being polite and when i say If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all its more of a statement that if you ONLY have mean things to say don't say them, unless you can do it politely. And believe me i would be the last person to get upset about constructive criticism because im at school for a sewing and costume program so i know what its like to be told something you love is done wrong or badly, and that criticism can definitely help but a person should never outright criticize a costume someone has obviously poured a lot of time and effort into

Last edited by Shifty Llama : 10-29-2008 at 12:14 PM.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 12:20 PM   #812
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Exactly. ~~Also...wth. your cosplay is perfect! What I imagined didn't even look as good as that. And you look like Yuna! You are definitely a better gunner Yuna too.
I literally have no idea what people are thinking now. Seriously o.O??
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Unread 10-29-2008, 12:44 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by Tallus View Post
Did you try to explain that huge zippers were part of the outside design? That they weren't meant to be as much functional as they are decorative? I've had to go so far as to draw stuff for people sometimes.

As for comments I've received myself...I think the absolute worst was the mocking tone I got from a Starbucks chick once. I was with a friend, on the way to an arcade, and I was wearing the strap between my knees that Iori Yagami wears (King of Fighters, the very game we were going to play there.) We stopped at a Starbucks and the first thing I get is a cocked eyebrow and a "Why are you wearing that?"

"Homage to a video game character I'm going to use in half an hour to beat this fool senseless." *thumb to my friend*

She still laughed awkwardly. I think people need to get out more and realize there's more to life than "omg....shoes" and purses and American Idol.
So true. Luckily, the 'preppy' crowd in where I am does not seem to care about my cosplaying... I've actually gotten a few compliments, but only after I had to explain what cosplay was... show picture of character... etc. -sigh-
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Unread 10-29-2008, 01:14 PM   #814
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Agreed that being outright rude is mean and unacceptable...

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Originally Posted by Shifty Llama View Post
i think what most people need to learn to do is give constructive criticism, for instance you say something like whoa it looks like you really put a lot of work into that but it would be way more awesome if you had done this this and this.
...but cannot resist the urge to jump in and say that middle school art teachers are wrong, "constructive criticism" does not mean "say something nice about it before you point out what's wrong."

Constructive criticism is just that: Criticism with the intent of being constructive.

I don't have to find something to compliment about your costume to offer polite, proper constructive criticism. "This looks off, try doing this to fix it..." or "It would look better if you..." are perfectly polite statements that can set people off on the warpath because you dared to say something was wrong with their work without first praising them and their unique specialness.

...by the way, not knowing how to make costumes does not exclude you from constructive criticism. I'm sick of people who say "well if you can't even suggest how to fix it, keep your mouth shut! YOU can't do it any better!" -- No, they probably can't, but that doesn't mean they can't see when something is off or something looks bad, and pointing it out can alert you (the maker, the one with the supposed talent) that something needs to be done, and then you figure out how to fix it.

Now, there's a time and a place for constructive criticism, yes. If someone ASKS for help, go for it. If they say they'd rather not have advice, then refrain. If you're at a convention in public, refrain unless they ask, because they can't fix it then anyway (you might be able to get away with a courteous "I see this part of your costume is coming undone/falling apart, would you like a tip to fix it up and make it sturdier?" if something's going very obviously wrong, but if they don't want your advice, don't give it.). If they post it online with no specifications, I would call that fair game for constructive criticism.

In no situation should it cross to open mockery, but neither should I feel the need to find something to compliment before I criticize (anyone else notice these compliments before criticism are often very forced to begin with? "Oh gosh, this really needs work, but I can't say that without saying something nice first, oh no, what do I compliment? Gotta find something!" Personally, I'd rather just have the criticism without the empty compliments, thanks.)

Llama, not directing this at you, your situation sounds like people genuinely being rude and not at all constructive.

Just pointing out to the internet at large that it's possible to be constructively critical without injecting diabetes-inducing compliments into everything you say.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 01:34 PM   #815
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I agree, completely. But something people in America haven't learned about their English is that there is a way to use their words that, even if you're making a negative comment or pointing out something that could be improved, there is a way to do it without making the person feel like a failure. Because sometimes they really are looking for help improving--but if you completely demolish their pride in their product, what are the chances they'll have the motivation to try improving? Especially people new to the hobby of sewing in general It's just something to keep in mind when helping someone who hasn't asked for it. :]


Edit: What I meant by "people in America haven't learned about English" is just the fact that I've been in an English class in another country and they actually had an entire unit on speaking positively vs speaking negatively. Never had anything like that here.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 01:51 PM   #816
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I only had one rude comment directed at us. When we were walking to the convention center with other people who were also in costumes, a guy passed by us and said "Get a life!". So one of the guys in costume shouted "This is our life, you bum!" All we could do was laugh.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:06 PM   #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by han-pan View Post
Edit: What I meant by "people in America haven't learned about English" is just the fact that I've been in an English class in another country and they actually had an entire unit on speaking positively vs speaking negatively. Never had anything like that here.
Strange, I had "positive" versus "negative" speech connotations drilled into me throughout my schooling.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:06 PM   #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by han-pan View Post
I've been in an English class in another country and they actually had an entire unit on speaking positively vs speaking negatively. Never had anything like that here.
People learning a language are pretty much always taught how to be polite and inoffensive while using it. I'd be hesitant to draw conclusions about any culture based on that.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:26 PM   #819
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For: Shifty Llama

How sad...I have a friend who loves Sailor Moon so much she cosplay as Chibi-Usa for AX 2008. When we got there a lot for people ask for her photo so I step a-side and watch, a girl came and walk past by me and saw my friend and said "Ew, a fat Chibi-Usa." and walk away. That was so mean of her to say that!! I fell like I want to slap her!!
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:27 PM   #820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardMandy View Post
...but cannot resist the urge to jump in and say that middle school art teachers are wrong, "constructive criticism" does not mean "say something nice about it before you point out what's wrong."

Constructive criticism is just that: Criticism with the intent of being constructive.
This. This, this, this, and this.

Which leads me to this...

Quote:
Also...wth. your cosplay is perfect! What I imagined didn't even look as good as that. And you look like Yuna! You are definitely a better gunner Yuna too.
I literally have no idea what people are thinking now. Seriously o.O??
Don't get me wrong...I'm not gonna rip on it or anything...but when you use the word "perfect", especially in this hobby...well, lets just say there is a sever lack of sincerity in this hobby. I personally wish people would be "real" instead of this "ZOMG YOU'RE TEH BEST *insert character here* EVER!@!! KAWAIII!!

It's pointless...and probably a reason why a lot of people can't take criticism.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:37 PM   #821
Shifty Llama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ng31 View Post
This. This, this, this, and this.

Which leads me to this...



Don't get me wrong...I'm not gonna rip on it or anything...but when you use the word "perfect", especially in this hobby...well, lets just say there is a sever lack of sincerity in this hobby. I personally wish people would be "real" instead of this "ZOMG YOU'RE TEH BEST *insert character here* EVER!@!! KAWAIII!!

It's pointless...and probably a reason why a lot of people can't take criticism.
The Issue that this is in fact dealing with was a comment made about physical appearance and not costume. Its one thing to criticize my costume, nothing is perfect especially if its based on something fictional but you shouldn't say something about someones attractiveness or (like Chibi Baka Zaru mentioned) someones weight because that is some thing that a cosplayer cannot control
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:43 PM   #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ng31 View Post
Don't get me wrong...I'm not gonna rip on it or anything...but when you use the word "perfect", especially in this hobby...well, lets just say there is a sever lack of sincerity in this hobby. I personally wish people would be "real" instead of this "ZOMG YOU'RE TEH BEST *insert character here* EVER!@!! KAWAIII!!

It's pointless...and probably a reason why a lot of people can't take criticism.
One major thing that's been wrong with coscom. The severe amount of people who can't take an honest critique. Even when the person is polite about it, they freak out and throw a bitch fit because somebody said they weren't the OMG BEST COSPLAYER EVAR! Even worse when they go into the critique forum. Mix that with the people who sugar coat all their comments. You don't help anybody by sugar coating everything. That's how many cosplayers get over inflated attitudes because everybody constantly praises them and feeds their ego. Sorry, but their shit don't smell like roses anymore then the next person.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 02:43 PM   #823
4ng31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty Llama View Post
...someones attractiveness or (like Chibi Baka Zaru mentioned) someones weight because that is some thing that a cosplayer cannot control
You're right to an extent...it may not be something they can control...but they *can* control their costume choice.

No one wants to see their favorite character being portrayed as a hot mess...

And ya ya, I know..."it doesn't matter"..."do whatever character you want"...etc...but people need to lean to think logically about it as well.

*Note, none of this is directed at you.*
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Unread 10-29-2008, 03:00 PM   #824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ng31 View Post
You're right to an extent...it may not be something they can control...but they *can* control their costume choice.

No one wants to see their favorite character being portrayed as a hot mess...

And ya ya, I know..."it doesn't matter"..."do whatever character you want"...etc...but people need to lean to think logically about it as well.

*Note, none of this is directed at you.*
I think she means more like someone who says "YOUR NOSE IS TOO BIG TO COS AS ____" or "____ is much prettier than YOU are." I mean...come on. Beauty is in the eye of the holder and the heart of the holder. Just cuz she ain't purty to you, regardless of age, rest, whatever, doesn't mean she ain't purty to somebody else, even to themselves.

So they might think they make a great whatevercharacter, and whether their costume is perfect is besides the point--people don't need to tell them they don't have the right facial structure/whatever for it. That's just dumb.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 04:37 PM   #825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty Llama View Post
The Issue that this is in fact dealing with was a comment made about physical appearance and not costume. Its one thing to criticize my costume, nothing is perfect especially if its based on something fictional but you shouldn't say something about someones attractiveness or (like Chibi Baka Zaru mentioned) someones weight because that is some thing that a cosplayer cannot control
*nods* Again, I said your situation was a case of just someone being rude.

There's nothing constructive about insulting someone's appearance. People who offer "constructive criticism" that's really an insult are as annoying as people who misinterpret genuinely helpful criticism as being mean and insulting.

There's a balance to strike here.

Not that cos.com is known for balance.
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